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"ILLEGAL FORWARD PASS" DIDN'T OCCUR IN PACKERS-VIKINGS GAME

In Sunday’s back-and-forth affair between the Packers and Vikings at the Metrodome, a pair of points awarded to the home team in the first half ended up being a huge factor in the one-point win by Minnesota.
It happened when Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers was attempting to avoid being tackled in the end zone for a safety.   While stumbling to the ground, he blindly flipped the ball in underhand fashion, conjuring memories of a certain quarterback who preceded Rodgers as a Packer.
 Here’s the video.

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Pausing the video at 0:07 (Mmmmichael Scarn) shows that the ball landed less than two yards short of the line of scrimmage, and in the general vicinity of a receiver.
Initially, the officials awarded a safety to the Vikings.  After an on-field conference during which the debate seemed to focus on whether a receiver was in the vicinity of the throw and/or whether the ball had gotten back to the line of scrimmage, referee Alberto Riveron announced that Rodgers had thrown an illegal forward pass, which equated to a safety.
In our view, Riveron called it an illegal forward pass because he realized that it wasn’t intentional grounding.  Under Rule 8, Section 3, Article 1 of the 2008 Official Playing Rules, intentional grounding would have occurred if there had not been a “realistic chance” of completing the pass, or if the ball had not landed “near or beyond” the line of scrimmage. (Rodgers clearly was out of the pocket, which is a prerequisite to avoiding a grounding call by throwing the ball “near or beyond” the line of scrimmage, regardless of whether a receiver is in the area.)
We base our conclusion in this regard on in-game images of Packers coach Mike McCarthy’s argument with the officials, which images strongly suggested that the decision resulted from the unconventional Favre-esque throwing motion that Rodgers had used.  (McCarthy confirmed this after the game:  “The interpretation that I was given was that it was an unnatural throwing motion so with that decision it was a safety.”)
It clearly wasn’t a “natural” throwing motion; but the rules don’t require a pass to be thrown with a “natural” motion.  Under Rule 8, Section 1, Article 1, a legal forward pass is any pass (including an attempt to fumble forward) made from behind the line of scrimmage, if the ball hasn’t moved beyond the line of scrimmage and then returned behind it.  An illegal forward pass is “[a]ny other forward pass.”
So the ungainly desperation toss by Rodgers wasn’t an illegal forward pass.
The league apparently realizes this.  In an e-mail on Sunday night, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said that it wasn’t an illegal forward pass, per se.  “It was intentional grounding,” Aiello wrote.  “The QB was out of the pocket but he didn’t get the ball back to the line of scrimmage.  The ball was snapped from the 10 and the ball landed at the 8.  The referee announced illegal forward pass, which is what intentional grounding is.”
Riveron seemed to adopted this same approach after the game.  When pressed by reporters on the “illegal forward pass” call, Riveron said, “Intentional grounding.”
But intentional grounding isn’t an illegal forward pass.  They are two distinct penalties, with two separate sets of consequences.
Intentional grounding results in a loss of ten yards or the spot of the foul, whichever is greater, and a loss of down.  An illegal forward pass results in a five-yard penalty and no loss of down.  (For either penalty, an infraction in the end zone is a safety.)
So we’ll stand on our belief that Riveron played the “illegal forward pass” call based on the throwing motion, because one or more other members of his crew were insisting that a receiver was in the area and/or the ball was sufficiently “near” the line of scrimmage.
And so the lesson that this first-year referee likely has learned today is that “I know it when I see it” logic has no application to a 111-page rule book in which a visceral belief as to conduct that should trigger a penalty doesn’t always constitute a violation.

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84 Responses to “"ILLEGAL FORWARD PASS" DIDN'T OCCUR IN PACKERS-VIKINGS GAME”
  1. SeanMartin says: Nov 9, 2008 9:51 PM

    Good work, finally.

  2. apooster says: Nov 9, 2008 9:51 PM

    They need to amend rules that bases a safety or intentional grounding on the officials judgment.
    Regardless of if you are a Packer of Viking fan, you KNOW that is intentional grounding and he was trying to save his ass.
    If it is noticable that a ball is not catchable, not past the line of scrimmage, and based on a particular situation the referee should be able to call intentional grounding or safety.

  3. VikingAP says: Nov 9, 2008 9:51 PM

    Cry.

  4. Osterhouse says: Nov 9, 2008 9:52 PM

    waaaaaa
    Packer fan tears are the most delicious of them all…well right next to patriot fan tears from last superbowl

  5. VikingAP says: Nov 9, 2008 9:54 PM

    Regardless, the foul occurred in the end zone, so its a safety.

  6. LongTimeFootballFan says: Nov 9, 2008 9:56 PM

    Isn’t it if there isn’t a reciever within like 5 yards of the ball or something it’s grounding? There was a receiver like 3 yards away. BS call that ended up being the difference in the game and may have ruined the Packers chances of getting to the playoffs.

  7. aec4 says: Nov 9, 2008 9:57 PM

    Does this guy email all of the media on Tuesday telling them he’s sorry?

  8. Mossey Cade says: Nov 9, 2008 9:58 PM

    And the Packers WIN!!!!
    Oh wait. No, they don’t.

  9. youareallcluelessmorons says: Nov 9, 2008 9:58 PM

    I just read this whole post and I all have to say is, I want my 3.4 minutes back.

  10. arosen36 says: Nov 9, 2008 10:01 PM

    i wonder if it would have been called if it was brat favre throwing it

  11. champs says: Nov 9, 2008 10:04 PM

    If you’ve got leg hairs grazing the turf, I don’t really care if it’s an underhanded heave going fifty yards down the field. That’s grounding.

  12. JesseG. says: Nov 9, 2008 10:04 PM

    LOL @ Viking fans talking crap to Packer fans. Green Bay has owned you the last 3 years and it takes horrible officating to win a game finnally. Keep talking.

  13. ireckon says: Nov 9, 2008 10:05 PM

    Video is proof Aaron Rodgers is not Bret Farve.

  14. Osterhouse says: Nov 9, 2008 10:05 PM

    Advancing a fumble perhaps? Also to say this was the game difference is b.s. Why? Butterfly Effect.

  15. freedomispopular says: Nov 9, 2008 10:09 PM

    Regardless, that was a great effort by Rodgers.

  16. nerdmann says: Nov 9, 2008 10:11 PM

    If the pass would have been completed, it would have counted. There WAS no foul.
    Refs screwed the pooch here. They also screwed Al Harris on a phantom PI call. I predicted FOUR backbreaking phantom PI calls would be made in key situations, but was “pleasantly” surprised to only see three.
    Not saying there’s proof of a conspiracy, but when the officials are determining, and in some cases ALTERING (as we saw two weeks in a row in Denver) the outcome of games, there needs to be an investigation and the situation needs to be addressed.
    The players should demand this in the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
    As a Packers fan, I congratulate the Vikings, they played a tough game and were not undeserving of this win. But the officiating was at least as bad as the Packers’ play on the line of scrimmage.

  17. MightyB says: Nov 9, 2008 10:16 PM

    That Faver guy would have won.
    How about them Jets?

  18. Nideak says: Nov 9, 2008 10:26 PM

    Nerdmann stole my thunder… I’m not a pack fan, didn’t care who won the game, but if the receiver had dove for it and caught it (he was clearly in the vacinity) the ref wouldn’t have thrown a flag. It was a bad call, but the NFL/refs continue to make up moronic excuses to justify moronic and inconsistent officiating.

  19. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 10:27 PM

    Waaaaaaaaa
    pakcers use to be good….way back then!!
    Waaaa….
    We suck now but we used to be good and I’ll keep reminding everyone of our past every time we lose.
    Waaaaaa…
    We used to beat the Vikings….back then…waaaaaaaa
    The officials screwed us…
    Waaaaaaaaaa
    This is like Christmas and my birthday all rolled into one. I love watching the cheeseheads eat it. Bunch of living-in-the-past bawlbabies.
    SKOL VIKINGS!!

  20. LITE SPD says: Nov 9, 2008 10:32 PM

    Whether it was intentional grounding or and illegal forward pass, it doesn’t matter. Its still a saftey because he did it in the endzone. This post should have never been created. Its just tring to stir up controversy on something that doesn’t exist or matter because the result is still the same.

  21. marionthebarbarian says: Nov 9, 2008 10:32 PM

    Regardless of what we think of the penalty, the refs got it wrong. The ref said the penalty was for an illegal forward pass. The rules clearly state that the penalty for this infraction is the loss of five yards. The main argument isn’t whether or not it was intentional grounding or an illegal forward pass or no infraction at all. Its the fact that a ref announced a penalty and didn’t enforce it correctly. I hope Peria admits that one of his refs messed up.

  22. JesseG. says: Nov 9, 2008 10:38 PM

    I like to see Vikings fans get all excited like they just won the Superbowl or something.
    Last time I checked they have had 2 winning season’s since 2003.
    Last time I checked they still have no QB.
    Last time I checked we still beat them earlier this year.
    And last time I checked they still have 2 cheating DT’s.
    Minnesota will be lucky to finish .500 this year. True Story

  23. hesawinner says: Nov 9, 2008 10:39 PM

    How much will that ref be fined for his F up?

  24. Someone says: Nov 9, 2008 10:39 PM

    Al Harris phantom PI’s??? Every week that guy gets away with on field rape. The WR might as well be carrying piggy-back style.

  25. JesseG. says: Nov 9, 2008 10:43 PM

    Its called physical defense. It makes him one of the top 5 CB’s in football. This is not a pansy league lol.

  26. nerdmann says: Nov 9, 2008 10:44 PM

    Yo, Ntrickit.
    Jared Allen, who somehow avoided suspension last week for diving at Schaub’s knees twice, is going to get suspended for going helmet to helmet on Rodgers. He can go cruise Lake Minnetonka for four games with the Williams brothers.
    How’s your defense gonna look for those four games?

  27. apooster says: Nov 9, 2008 10:46 PM

    Jared Allen is a Beast

  28. nerdmann says: Nov 9, 2008 10:46 PM

    YO, Lite SPD,
    The point is that there IS NO PENALTY.
    The play was an incomplete pass. Incomplete passes thrown from the end zone are not safeties.

  29. CT Stiller says: Nov 9, 2008 10:48 PM

    I’m not a fan of the Eagles or the GIants, but it sure does look like the Giants are getting some questionable calls going thier way in this game. Lame facemask penalty there as well.

  30. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 10:48 PM

    LOL at pakcer fan talking about the Williams Wall getting popped for water pills when burt faver ate vicoden for dinner and washed it down with a bottle of gin.
    Oh, and again, mentioning the past.
    Did anyone see the Steelers game today? Terry Bradshaw had 2 TD’s, “Mean Joe” Green and Jack Hamm both had great games, too! Great, great game.
    Now I see why you pakcer fans live in the past. It’s fun!

  31. Phildo says: Nov 9, 2008 10:49 PM

    According to the Giants game an illegal forward pass does come with a loss of down.

  32. hender says: Nov 9, 2008 10:49 PM

    nerdman…heres 2 more blown calls… there was the obvious offensive pass interference on sidney rice in the end zone on what would have been an easy pick for the Pack that was not called… on the next play rice scored on his td catch and also in the 4th quarter(on the vikes final scoring i think it was) Kampman was facemasked by a viking o lineman with the ref right there and he didn’t get the call…this was quite obvious also on instant replay…the reffing in the nfl is so brutal it has gotten to the point where you almost can’t watch a game…the vikes are 2-4-3…2 wins 4 losses with 3 wins courteous of the refs…how many blown calls can chili get that go his way in a year??- they are saving his job-chili looks like a fool on the sideline

  33. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 10:56 PM

    Nerdman,
    Jared Allen is getting suspended for hitting Rodgers?
    Really?
    Really?
    Don’t bank on it, my friend.
    Quit your bawling and go wrap yourself in a burt farvr jersey from way back when the pakcers were good.

  34. brasho says: Nov 9, 2008 10:59 PM

    He may have said, “illegal forward pass” but the penalty was correctly assessed as “intentional grounding”. The ball landed two yards shy of the LOS, he was in the endzone, it was intentional grounding, the refs made the right call on the field and the wrong announcement to the crowd. So what? Refs blow the announcements all the time, announcing the wrong number in the penalty, pointing the wrong direction or getting the down wrong. This is really no big deal, the right call was made.

  35. nerdmann says: Nov 9, 2008 11:00 PM

    Yo, Phildo, there was no illegal forward pass, get it? Try moving your lips when you read the article.
    There was no penalty. I typed it slower for you.

  36. TheGonz says: Nov 9, 2008 11:06 PM

    There’s still nothing funnier than Packer fans whining about getting jobbed by the referees.
    I guess when you cheer for a team that’s gotten every BS call for the last two decades or so to go your way, it stings that much more when a referee actually has the nerve to make a call against your team.
    28-27.
    Enjoy your week, Packer fans. I know we Viking fans will be enjoying ours.

  37. hender says: Nov 9, 2008 11:12 PM

    yes a phantom call on Al Harris…bobby wade created the contact by running directly into him and then he(wade)also pushed off on Harris after the contact so the play should have been an offensive pass interference…and on the Rodgers pass since he was out of the pocket he can throw underhand,overhand ,sidearm or a hook shot and it would not be a safety since he was out of the pocket…the ref messed up again…chili has to be blowing these refs after every game to be getting all these calls

  38. Ozzie says: Nov 9, 2008 11:12 PM

    Hey, I can quote the rulebook too.
    Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass
    1. Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.
    2. Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.
    3. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).
    So let me sum it up. Rodgers was facing imminent loss of yardage. His pass did not land at or beyond the line of scrimmage (it was about 2 yds short of the line), and I think the closest player would’ve needed to be superman to catch that thing. I don’t think that there was a reasonable chance that he could have caught the ball.
    No doubt the illegal forward pass call = wrong.
    No doubt that it was intentional grounding and a safety.

  39. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 11:16 PM

    Nerdman.
    Who said there was no illegal forward pass? Mike Florio? I didn’t even know he was at the game. Why don’t you and Florio call the league office and demand:
    1.) Jared Allen be suspended (possibly forever)
    2.) The Williams Wall be suspended (possibly forever)
    3.) The pakcers be awarded the win.
    4.) Burt Farver be traded back to the pcakers.
    Let us know how that turns out.
    Also, I posted on my MySpace blog that arin rogders is out for the year with a bruided vagina. Does that make it a fact since some guy posted it on a private website?

  40. LITE SPD says: Nov 9, 2008 11:16 PM

    YO, nerdmann,
    It is a penalty. The penalty was called wrong and inforced correctly. Rodgers was in the pocket when this happened.
    Pocket Area: Applies from a point two yards outside of either offensive tackle and includes the tight end if he drops off the line of scrimmage to pass protect. Pocket extends longitudinally behind the line back to offensive team’s own end line.
    Watch the vid again.
    Intentional grounding: Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.

  41. packerswin says: Nov 9, 2008 11:19 PM

    LITE SPD, the reason for this article is that there should not have been a penalty in the first place, there was a Packer there by the throw and it does not matter how you throw it so there should have been no penalty and no safety!
    Ntrikit, Allen will be suspended for sure this time, no one knows how he got away without one after the Houston game but this time he gets it for sure.

  42. finishim says: Nov 9, 2008 11:20 PM

    lol vikings fans acting as if they just took the nfc north which has never happened or won the superbowl… which has never happened… its obvious the refs messed up again this year and im not complaining its just an obvious call.. if it werent for ap the vikings wouldnt win three games a year.. and id be surprised if they pulled 8 wins outta thier ass this year

  43. Sparrowhawk says: Nov 9, 2008 11:21 PM

    Thanks for the article. As a former official it pains me to watch some of these games on Sunday. NFL officiating has determined at least one game each week so far this season and Green Bay has a legitimate gripe with this game.

  44. hender says: Nov 9, 2008 11:23 PM

    the fat williams boys were popped for taking a banned substance in the nfl..plain and simple…they should actually try working out and eating properly if they want to lose some weightand yeah allen might get suspended especially since it was only the week before when he was fined for cheap shots and then he goes helmet to helmet on the qb this week…it’s not hard to figure out the guy is an idiot

  45. Ozzie says: Nov 9, 2008 11:25 PM

    No doubt the illegal forward pass call was wrong, whether they misspoke or not. It was definitely intentional grounding.
    Read the rules. http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/intentionalgrounding
    The ball landed two yards shy of the line of scrimmage, not at or beyond, and there was no “realistic chance of completion”.

  46. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 11:25 PM

    I agree with the pcaker fans.
    Mean old Jared Allen, the cheap shot artist should not have allowed to play in the game. Same with that pill-popping Williams Wall. Pack of cheaters they are!
    The refs wanted the Vikes to win. A-Rodg was not trying to save a safety, he was tossing the ball to a receiver. He clearly was in control of his body and his throwing motion.
    Because of our storied past, we should always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to calls. HEY NFL!! WE WON SUPERBOWLS!! REMEMBER?? We are not in the same league as the rest of the teams, and we demand better treatment from the refs.
    The pakcers actually won todays game. We beat the Vikings 5 times, so todays outcome does not count.
    Long live Burt Farver!!

  47. bgman says: Nov 9, 2008 11:31 PM

    This is a stupid, meaningless post just to get responses.
    In the middle of the field illegal forward pass is a lesser penalty than intentional grounding (5 yards vs. 10) so it actually would have been to the Packers advantage. But given the play happened in the end zone they have the same result (a safety) so there’s no point to brining this up.
    Packer fans, shut up. Your team was physically dominated on both sides of the line of scrimmage — couldn’t stop the run and couldn’t protect Rogers.
    Now I hear Packer fans complaining about Jared Allen. Watch the replay. He was unblocked and going full speed at Rogers and was about two feet away when Rogers released the ball. There is absolutely no way to stop his momentum and Allen even holds his hands up to show that he’s pulling back his momentum and not trying to hit Rogers at full speed or drive him to the ground.
    Allen was flagged for leading with his head. Well no shit! When you sprint, typically your head arrives to the spot before the rest of your body. The NFL expects these guys to from full speed to dead stop in a split second, and penalize them for not doing so.

  48. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 11:31 PM

    Who cares?
    Will this change anything? No? Didn’t think so.
    thanx k bi!

  49. SamIAm says: Nov 9, 2008 11:34 PM

    JesseG:
    MN DT’s = popping water pills
    Packer DT = Felony Drug Possession

  50. Tenolein says: Nov 9, 2008 11:35 PM

    Ozzie summed it up perfectly. There WAS a penalty. Face it Pack fans. And if, somehow, that Packer receiver caught that thing.. it wouldn’t have been a penalty, you’re right. Because it was officially a INTENTIONAL GROUNDING call. Duuuuur.
    Oh, the refs making calls against the Packers today? Awwwwwww.. The past 3 years their CBs have been MAULING WRs past 5 yards from the line of scrimmage and there have been no calls. Deal with it. That door swings both ways. You just have been on the receiving end of it.. Finally.
    Bottom line, 28-27. Vikings win.
    And hell yes we’re gonna gloat about it. We’ve been in rivalry hell the past 3 years.

  51. marionthebarbarian says: Nov 9, 2008 11:36 PM

    What about those passes that sail 10 yards over everyones head in the back of the endzone? Using some peoples logic, any catch that requires a superman effort should be called intentional grounding. So next time a QB throws the ball out of the back of the endzone i hope you guys are calling for intentional grounding. What about the play in the eagles game a few minutes ago. I think it was on 2nd and goal and McNabb through it out the right side of the endzone way over westbrooks head. We see passes that are much more uncatchable than that every week. Probably every game. It was within a few yards.

  52. Ntrikit says: Nov 9, 2008 11:46 PM

    Good game! *shakes hands*
    thnx k bi!!1

  53. LITE SPD says: Nov 9, 2008 11:50 PM

    But marionthebarbarian there is a difference. The QB is attempting to get the ball to those recievers. Rodgers flinging it out of the endzone is not tring to attempt a completion, he’s tring to prevent a safety.

  54. hender says: Nov 9, 2008 11:55 PM

    he had 2 receivers..one at the 6 and one at the 10 and the ball lands at the 8 or barely past that and he is out of the pocket…if this is grounding there should be grounding called on many plays in the future as this is done on a regular basis in the nfl… so on every pass that tjack throws it would be grounding from what you are saying

  55. Ozzie says: Nov 10, 2008 12:02 AM

    Nice try Marion. Read the rule! If the QB is not facing “imminent loss of yardage” or if the pass “lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line” there is no I.G.
    I don’t know the someones logic you’re trying to follow but I would quit following.

  56. StandDown says: Nov 10, 2008 12:03 AM

    Holy shit! the Vikings won the SB!!! Because you know if you .500 on the year against the Packers, you are the Super Bowl Champions! Congrats! I’m just so hyped-up for the Vikes, aw man—I have to go write this in my diary! This is great!

  57. adrenaline says: Nov 10, 2008 12:08 AM

    that call did not screw the packers.. the inability to stop the run did..
    the call was wrong. Def not illegal forward pass.. Grounding? thats debatable.

  58. PackOne says: Nov 10, 2008 12:08 AM

    Brett Favre licks Jared Allen’s cheap and dirty scrote.

  59. jyernberg says: Nov 10, 2008 12:09 AM

    i just dont understand this. it was close to a reciever, and the LOS. when a screen pass is thrown incomplete(and those are rarely ever past the LOS) why is that not intentional grounding?

  60. jcasey says: Nov 10, 2008 12:26 AM

    Dear Packers,
    Miss me yet?
    Love, Brett

  61. Bob_Nelson says: Nov 10, 2008 12:36 AM

    Rodgers was not in imminent loss of yardage.
    No viking was as near as the ball was to the receiver.
    Florio is only stating an obvious error here.
    The Packers will get a letter of apology from the league but the results will remain the same. Two points the difference between a win and a loss.
    The Packers have to be very embarrassed by a loss to the lowly viklings.

  62. StandDown says: Nov 10, 2008 12:36 AM

    sorry guys, still writing in my diary……..this is something special..

  63. hender says: Nov 10, 2008 12:37 AM

    jyernberg… you beat me to it… every screen pass thrown directly into the ground should then be called cause there is no intent to complete a pass there… only avoid a sack/loss of yardage..and ALL those screens are behind the line of scrimmage(otherwise it would be an illegal receiver downfield on the o lineman)…so sure he threw it to avoid losing yardage/safety but it is done all the time and he had the ball close to a couple receivers..just like what occurs on all screen paasses when they do not work and the qb just throws the ball into the ground ..and there is no way in hell any guy could catch those either…and a qb throwing the ball out of the end zone has no intent of completing that to any receiver,GET REAL..its so he doesn’t get sacked or try to squeeze it into a receiver and ends up getting intercepted

  64. marionthebarbarian says: Nov 10, 2008 12:46 AM

    Good point ozzie. The persons logic i was arguing against doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t matter if it takes a superhuman to catch a pass as long as it doesn’t break any of the IG rules. I got wrapped up in that comment and disregarded the part of the rule you highlighted, so i guess my argument is wrong.
    Anyhow, i agree with adrenaline. Its definitely not clearly IG. I lean towards it wasn’t. Had he thrown the ball in the same place, but didn’t throw it all underhanded, i don’t think a flag would have been thrown. But throwing the football awkwardly as your falling down makes it looks worse.

  65. Ozzie says: Nov 10, 2008 12:53 AM

    jyerberg, switch to watching soccer man.
    In a screen pass is there an “imminent” loss of yardage due to pressure? Is there a “realistic chance of completion”? Did the ball land “at or beyond” the line of scrimmage?
    Did the QB, after running into the end zone and just before falling on his face, fling the ball out of the end zone two yards shy of the line of scrimmage to avoid a safety?

  66. greenngld says: Nov 10, 2008 1:26 AM

    It is not Intentional Grounding. From the rule book:
    Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.
    The receiver in the general area makes it a realistic chance of completion. It does not matter if it gets to the LOS.
    was Rodgers throwing the ball to not get a safety…of course, but the rules have to be applied as written, and it was neither an IFP or IG.

  67. nerdmann says: Nov 10, 2008 1:43 AM

    Other than the fact that Rodgers’ mentor had completed passes of this type consistently for the three years that Rodgers was his understudy, I must point out that THERE WAS NO IMMINENT LOSS OF YARDAGE.
    The play was in the END ZONE. You don’t lose yardage if you’re tackled in the end zone. Read the rules. That’s a safety.
    Of course, Rodgers was NOT tackled in the end zone. He threw an incomplete pass.
    Like I said, I congratulate the Queens on pulling out a win despite themselves. They are not undeserving of the win. But the officials can’t just make rules up as they go. That’s the NBA.
    The FACT is there was at least ONE reciever in the vicinity. The refs threw a flag and then tried to justify it after the fact. The Queens have been beneficiaries of phantom calls (usually PI) even against other teams.
    They’re not the Broncos, but they’re hardly the Chargers either.
    I repeat, the officiating was worse than the Packers play on the line of scrimmage.

  68. bhooks80 says: Nov 10, 2008 2:50 AM

    I think the NFL needs to address the two calls as a whole.
    If you are trying to kill the clock and spike the ball behind the line of scrimmage, this should be called intentional grounding by term. However it is not.
    So whats to say a team snaps the ball runs back a few steps and then spikes the ball into the turf to kill the clock. That is a penalty?
    Makes no sense.
    So it looks like the NFL has skewed the rules for the Offense again.

  69. Fan_of_Football says: Nov 10, 2008 5:39 AM

    Why don’t the Vikings eat cereal?
    Because they choke every time they get near the bowl

  70. JuicyMelon says: Nov 10, 2008 6:42 AM

    I laugh at Packer’s fans who complain about the refs. How many times have the Packers won because of a blown call? In fact, the refs could call a penalty on either team at any time. The Packer’s lost today and did not deserve to win. A-Rod looked horrible and made plenty of mistakes. The Packers D couldn’t stop the Vikings O. The special teams for the Packers has a chance to win it and they blew it. The Vikings were lucky to win this game…But the fact remains, Vikings at the top of the division with the Bears and the Packers closer to the Lions at the bottom.

  71. travelost says: Nov 10, 2008 7:00 AM

    As much as I would love to say. ‘We got screwed’. The fact of that matter is, we let AP run for 197 yards, offensive/defensive lines played like dog shit, and Mason missed a game winning field goal(in a Dome)…

  72. steve2e says: Nov 10, 2008 7:37 AM

    It was a fun game to watch except for the turn overs. Pretty even and I was surprised that the Vikes won. When the lead changed in Greenbay’s favor, I was sure it was over. The Vikes surprised me.
    Nice surprise.

  73. pjfuller says: Nov 10, 2008 8:00 AM

    It was a bullshit call, because the officials officiated INTENT. That is not acceptable, and a central part of what is NOT their job.
    We all know Rodgers was trying to dump the ball. That’s not the point. Was there a receiver within catchable difference? Was he out of the pocket? Yes. Forget the throwing motion. The referee officiated intent, which is clearly inappropriate and wrong.
    The was a horribly officiated game on both sides.

  74. pjfuller says: Nov 10, 2008 8:06 AM

    Vikings Fans = Pussies

  75. pjfuller says: Nov 10, 2008 8:07 AM

    This game saved Ned Flander’s job. In the long run, this is a great thing for Green Bay. Hopefully they keep Rick Spielman as well.
    Okely-Dokely

  76. bored_of_seinfeld_jokes says: Nov 10, 2008 8:20 AM

    Who gives a crap if it was intentional grounding or a forward pass – it happened in the endzone and was still a safety. It would have made zero change on the outcome of the game.
    And for the Vikings fans talking smack, other than Peterson and Allen, you’ve got nothing to be proud of. That was a slop win where your team did everything possible to lose. Your team just happened to suck slightly less than the Packers yesterday.

  77. TimTheEnchanter says: Nov 10, 2008 8:39 AM

    Nice job Florio! A “controversy” post regarding such a bitter rivalry can increase your hit count tremendously with all the flames and comments back and forth.
    Well played.
    Now can we get back to things like “news” or even “rumours” instead of inflammatory speculation?

  78. JuicyMelon says: Nov 10, 2008 8:40 AM

    bored_of_seinfeld_jokes,
    We actually have plenty to be proud of. We beat the Packers, we are tied for first in the division, we have a fairly easier schedule than the Bears/Packers and we are learning how to win, and we got Madieu back. Plus, the Vikings, as a team, overcame some turnovers to beat GB. Name one positive that the Packers can take from this game? A-Rod looked bad, Offense looked bad in general, The GB D looked horrible at times, and MC couldn’t make a 52 yarder in a Dome. The Vikings didn’t really suck yesterday. I will admit they looked bad at times, but saying they sucked is not a good assesment. I will agree with one thing you did say…That was a slop win where your team did everything possible to lose…That’s very true. But what does that say about the Packers? The Vikings tried giving away the game and the Packers still couldn’t win.

  79. hender says: Nov 10, 2008 8:43 AM

    sorry Ozzie…but damn near every screen pass/play where the qb throws the ball directly into the ground ,is a few yards behind the line of scrimmage where the qb is about to get his ass handed to him by about half the defensive team and would require a mixture of superman and spiderman to catch,therefore that would be “imminent” loss of yardage due to pressure from your interpretation -he is trying to avoid the loss of yardage…but anyhow ,both of these teams look bad and whomever makes the playoffs out of the nfc north will not go far,they could maybe get lucky and squeeze out a first round win due to home field but thats it…every team in the nfc east is better

  80. rew14478 says: Nov 10, 2008 10:25 AM

    The Vikes beat us with the two weapons they have, run game and D-line. Our O-line was owned in that game. Im not sure we have any LB/s on D. Not sure if its the scheme or what but I haven’t seen those guys much this year. Secondary looked nice though…

  81. purpleguy says: Nov 10, 2008 11:18 AM

    Everyone should just relax. No one can look at the game or the “illegal forward pass” call objectively and not say the Vikes didn’t deserve to win the game. The dominated in yards, time of possession and play at the line of scrimmage. Both QB’s sucked. The Vikes ain’t going to the Super Bowl and neither are the Cheesers. What no one seems to be talking about is the poor decision making by the Pack’s coaching staff at the end of both halves — seemed like McCarthy stole Chilly’s playbook for a while there. Hey, the Vikes get bragging rights till the teams meet again, nothing more, nothing less. The only Pack poster with any class congratulating the Vikes without too much whining has been Nerdman.

  82. bored_of_seinfeld_jokes says: Nov 10, 2008 11:46 AM

    Juicy Melon, I agree, the packers looked awful and this was most likely a season killer for us. That doesn’t change the fact that Minny still has no solution for the QB situation, had poor special teams play, and very questionable play calling. Sure, they may have a real favorable schedule ahead of them, but with a 2-2 division record, the playoffs are still going to be a long shot.
    I’m not here being a homer like some Packers fans. My team stunk. The secondary looked good, but other than that, everyone looked horrid (and our play calling wasn’t much better than the Vike’s). But here’s the difference – I’m not posting about how awesome my team is. Congrats to the vikes fans that are behaving with class. To the trash talkers, that’s not a win I’d be especially proud of if I was a fan.

  83. kackyl says: Nov 10, 2008 11:50 AM

    Can a player even pass the ball after a fumble? And if so, is it because he’s the QB or could any player pick up a fumble and pass the ball?

  84. Tenolein says: Nov 10, 2008 6:52 PM

    The call was intentional grounding.
    Bottom line.
    Rodgers WAS in eminent danger of a sack due to pressure, look at the replay.
    There is not a single receiver, current or past, that could’ve caught that ball. Making that ball.. Umm.. What’s that word?
    Oh! Uncatchable.
    Rodgers, way to FAIL at your impersonation of Favre.
    Packers, way to NOT take a game Gus Free-Rot tried to give you. 3 times.

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