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DID SUPER BOWL LOSS DOOM WARNER'S HALL BID?

We’re gradually working through the four-hour Super Bowl edition of ESPN’s Sunday NFL Countdown, and we’ve tripped across an intriguing debate regarding the question of whether Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner would qualify for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame with a win on Sunday — and whether he’d be eligible even if the Cardinals lost the game.
(As they did, to the extent that any of you have been comatose since Saturday.)
We’ve noticed that, for the most part, former players tend to support the candidacies of other former players, with the exception of Michael Irvin.
So it wasn’t surprising to hear Ron Jaworski kick off the discussion by arguing that Warner already has done enough to merit enshrinement.  “Most of all, Kurt Warner shows up in big games,” Jaworski said.  (And maybe now Warner will “show up” for the Maxwell Club’s annual dinner.)
Trent Dilfer pointed out that Warner has taken previously bad teams in St. Louis and Arizona to the Super Bowl.
Steve Young argued that the definition of Warner’s career has changed in the past month, no longer being regarded as a journeyman who had a single flash of brilliance.
Young threw it to Tom Jackson, assuming that Jackson would agree.  But Jackson said that Warner needs to win the Super Bowl to get in.
Keyshawn Johnson called Warner’s situation a “Tom Brady story,” and explained that, if Brady already has done enough to be a Hall of Famer, Warner has as well.
Mike Ditka chimed in by pointing to Warner’s off-field exploits, which as we know from dealing with guys like O.J. Simpson, the original L.T., and the aforementioned Michael Irvin aren’t supposed to matter.
Keyshawn agreed:  “I think it’s important to package everything up together.  You gotta look at the whole package.”
The most compelling remarks came from Cris Carter, who had been passed over for enshrinement less than 24 hours earlier.
“Look, I think it’s a difficult spot for me,” Carter said.  “I agree with all you guys to a certain degree but I’ve been involved in the Hall of Fame process for the last two years and I gotta tell y’all,what I thought was a Hall of Famer . . . I don’t know no more.
“Because it used to be consistency, dominate the game, and dominate the game.  So, well, sometimes they change it.”
Jackson then pointed to Warner’s “missing years,” and said that they need to be balanced out by winning the Super Bowl.
Carter agreed that Kurt Warner has a Hall of Fame story, but that Carter doesn’t know whether they’ll let him in Canton.
As we’ve previously pointed out, the thinking in some voting circles is that, regardless of whether his team won or lost on Sunday, Warner would need to put together a couple of additional solid seasons, and ideally to finish in the top twenty in passing yards (he needs 5,000 more) and passing touchdowns (he needs 50).
So, in our view, Warner has yet to earn a spot in the Hall of Fame.  But he’s close, and he can get there with two more solid seasons.
Another Super Bowl win wouldn’t hurt, either.

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63 Responses to “DID SUPER BOWL LOSS DOOM WARNER'S HALL BID?”
  1. GeauxSaints12 says: Feb 4, 2009 10:14 PM

    I think he should be considered to be in the Hall of Fame. Maybe he might no be a sure first ballot, but he belongs there. The funny thing is that he could of loss 3 super bowls instead of just 2 and he could of won all 3. He has been the QB of some of the best super bowls in NFL history.

  2. longdarkface says: Feb 4, 2009 10:16 PM

    Rothlisberger will be in the Hall before Warner is.

  3. SoDev says: Feb 4, 2009 10:18 PM

    Pssh… just like T0m Brady last year, he put his team in position to win with under 3 min. to go.
    Warner’s SB performance just cemented it for me!
    (coming from a Giants fan)

  4. cwhitright says: Feb 4, 2009 10:21 PM

    Someone should tell Keyshawn that there is a slight difference in Super Bowl records between Warner and Brady. Also that Brady has been more consistent. I tend to agree that he needs a couple more solid years to deserve enshrinement.

  5. drian says: Feb 4, 2009 10:21 PM

    I think he has the 3 highest Super Bowl QB performances for yardage?

  6. jyernberg says: Feb 4, 2009 10:26 PM

    warner, IMO, has like a 65% chance of getting in around year 5-7 of eligibilty. he has good numbers, and his story is unique enough tthat he gains alot of respect from it alone. 2 more seasons near in the top 5 or so statistically could seal it for him.

  7. Henry Plainview says: Feb 4, 2009 10:32 PM

    Roethlisberger has 1 TD pass in 2 SB’s. Warner has all the SB passing records in 3 SB’s. Warner shows up in big games, Ben doesn’t. one lucky ass drive doesn’t cut it. being down 10-13 in the 4th does. then again, Ben has a defense. of course Ben is already enshrined, right?

  8. markwp88 says: Feb 4, 2009 10:41 PM

    Personally, I think Warner could retire today and he’d have done enough to be a Hall of Famer.
    I put a lot of stock in the fact that he took two previously downtrodden teams — one of them arguably the most downtrodden team in the history of the league — to the Super Bowl. He had great receivers on both teams, but in St. Louis he had one of the greatest running backs of all time in the backfield with him. In Arizona, he has a once-great player on the downside of his career and a somewhat promising newcomer. And he beat out a highly-touted draft pick that I’m sure quite a lot of people within the organization would have preferred to have won the job.
    As for his “lost years” — not to dismiss his poor play during that time, but let’s face it — those years did, in large part, involve getting his butt kicked on rebuilding teams. The fact that he emerged from that down period to lead the ARIZONA CARDINALS! to the Super Bowl makes his HoF case even more convincing.
    Mark

  9. CaptainFantastik says: Feb 4, 2009 10:41 PM

    No. His numbers dwarf more than a few “legendary” HOF QB’s…..especially playoff numbers. If he can’t get in then quite a few guys already in posession of those ugly yellow jackets don’t belong there either. He certainly wouldn’t be the only HOF-er with down years.

  10. vincelombardi says: Feb 4, 2009 10:44 PM

    if joe namath is in with his one lame season of greatness, if dan fouts is in with his never been to the big one, how can warner not be in? he took the freakin cardinals to the super bowl! the freakin cardinals!! and he had them ahead with less than 2 minutes to go. that’s 3 super bowl appearances, 2 more than both namath and marino, and 3 more than fouts. give the guy some cred. what has the rams done since he left? but leave it to nfl sports writers, hell they just made a freakin woman president of nfl writers!

  11. yamaha370 says: Feb 4, 2009 10:49 PM

    Roethlisberger has 1 TD pass in 2 SB’s. Warner has all the SB passing records in 3 SB’s. Warner shows up in big games, Ben doesn’t. one lucky ass drive doesn’t cut it. being down 10-13 in the 4th does. then again, Ben has a defense. of course Ben is already enshrined, right?
    Whoever posted this had better watch some more NFL!!! How many come from behind wins does BIG BEN have? Yeah thats what I thought more than any other Qb in the league. So wake up Ben is 2 For 2! What is Warner? Besides that it’s a team sport!! Go and watch some bochie ball buddy!!!!

  12. HarrisonHits says: Feb 4, 2009 10:51 PM

    Not as first ballot but I think eventually. The Greatest Show On Turf teams set a lot of records before the Pats finally topped them in 07. Definitely one of the greatest offenses ever.

  13. Gonads says: Feb 4, 2009 10:52 PM

    Dan Fouts is in the HOF. Warner gets in.

  14. blinkbdj says: Feb 4, 2009 10:55 PM

    “Henry Plainview says:
    February 4th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Roethlisberger has 1 TD pass in 2 SB’s. Warner has all the SB passing records in 3 SB’s. Warner shows up in big games, Ben doesn’t. one lucky ass drive doesn’t cut it. being down 10-13 in the 4th does. then again, Ben has a defense. of course Ben is already enshrined, right? ”
    What’s your point? He played fantastic all through the playoffs this year. He has accomplished more than Warner has in 5 years: Most wins by a rookie, rookie of the year, youngest QB to win a Superbowl, made the Pro Bowl last year with a passer rating only lower than Tom Brady, ANOTHER Superbowl ring, 18 comeback victories in the 4th quarter, and has more wins than any other QB in his first 5 years. The guy is a winner plain and simple. Only thing left for him to do is win an MVP award.

  15. stiller43 says: Feb 4, 2009 11:00 PM

    Henry Plainview,
    Passing yards and TDs don’t necessarily make you a great QB. (See: Romo, Tony) You can make all you want of Ben’s passing statistics, but he’s won more games in his 1st 5 seasons that any QB in history and has won 2 Superbowls before age 27. I don’t know how one can go 8-2 in the playoffs, and still be classified as “not showing up for big games.” And how about that one “lucky” drive? Have you ever watched him play? He has had 5 of those “lucky” last minute game winning drives this season and close to 20 in his career. He’s been doing it his whole career. And why do you think the Cardinals were down 10-13 in the 4th? …Maybe because Ben’s offense put up the points earlier. We’ll take Ben over “1 for 3 in the Big Game” Warner any day.

  16. brian_21 says: Feb 4, 2009 11:07 PM

    There’s a great chance Kurt Warner will make the Hall, and I believe he is a Hall of Famer. If I were him, I wouldn’t retire. Stay a Cardinal and at the very least there will be Steve Breaston and Larry Fitzgerald around — and maybe Anquan Boldin. Two or Three more seasons with those guys should do the trick regarding the Hall

  17. DwaredominatesAgain says: Feb 4, 2009 11:18 PM

    Kurt Warner has to be HOF quality, if Thurman freakin Thomas was elected, then I guess half the NFL is freakin elgible

  18. truetruth says: Feb 4, 2009 11:19 PM

    Please, if Dan Fouts is in the Hall, Warner is a lock…………

  19. DwaredominatesAgain says: Feb 4, 2009 11:20 PM

    Big Ben = Extremely Overrated

  20. phillyburdzfan says: Feb 4, 2009 11:20 PM

    I’m on the fence. When Warner’s been good, he’s been great, but he’s only been great with elite receivers. When he didn’t have the receivers, he was invisible.
    Part of that is because I think QBs get into the hall too easily. Flashy positions should have to do as well in their positions as other players have to do to get into the hall.
    Brian Dawkins has done as well at his position as a number of HOFers, but he’s not a lock because he’s a safety.

  21. yamaha370 says: Feb 4, 2009 11:32 PM

    All you morons who rag on BIG BEN are of course just jealous!!!! So keep ragging on him he will just keep winning more big games!! Don’t you wish he was your teams quarterback? Oh wait your teams weren’t smart enough to draft him!!! Keep hating!!! The steelers Big BEN and I will be laughing all the way to more super bowl wins!!!!! LMAO

  22. Joe 6-pack says: Feb 4, 2009 11:49 PM

    Stiller43. . . Ben’s offense put up 2 field goals at that point in the fourth. The other 7, and more than half the points at that time, were from Harrison’s amazing interception return. Ben played well, but honestly the guy shouldn’t be considered an elite QB just yet. He’s good, to be certain, but he’s definitely not on Brady or Manning level.
    As for Warner, I don’t see why you wouldn’t enshrine the guy. He has all those SB records. He’s thrown for almost 400 yards in each one. That has to count for something. I’d think playoff statistics would be a better indicator of how good somebody plays since they should be up against the tougher competition in the league that season.

  23. The Blast Furnace says: Feb 4, 2009 11:52 PM

    Warner should absolutely get into the Hall.
    As for Ben… he had an amazing season behind an offensive line that never dominated. When he gets better line play his numbers will improve which will be amazing since the numbers already include:
    2 – Superbowl wins
    13 – most wins ever by a rookie
    51 – most wins by anyone in 1st 5 years
    1 – offensive rookie of the year
    3 – perfect games
    19 – 4th quarter winning drives
    98.1 – highest rookie qb rating ever
    66.4 – highest completion % by a rookie ever
    .728 winning percentage
    I think there’s more… but really no more is needed.

  24. footballfan0820 says: Feb 5, 2009 12:04 AM

    Warner deserves to be in the hall. Warner may be 1/3 in the SB, but, uhh… that means that he LED (or led in a committee with Marshall Faulk) his teams to the Super Bowl three times. People who say that it’s a team sport, it’s not only him, are true, but the defenses of his SB teams have never been that good.
    I also would like to point out that all of Warner’s games were really decided by the last play in the game. (I don’t count kneeling as a play). The SB he won was due to his defense making a play, the ones he lost were due to his defense screwing up (like triple coverage on a receiver and still can’t stop the pass).
    However, for the sake of his legacy, I hope he retires in a different year than Brett Favre. My prediction: if he retires in the same year, he will not make the HOF. If they retire in different years, he will make the HOF.

  25. kwanner says: Feb 5, 2009 12:08 AM

    If Arizona stops them on the last drive everyone is on Kurt’s jock! Football is a team sport and Kurt carried that team all year. The PITT VS SEA superbowl was fixed and the fact that Ben gets credit for that makes me sick. The worst performance ever by a Qb in a superbowl and now he is refered to as a 2 time superbowl winner…what a joke! Dont get me started on the “tuck rule”

  26. south-fl-steel says: Feb 5, 2009 12:21 AM

    if a player can get in with only 3 great seasons of play, then warner should be in. however, i think you should need to be consistantly good over a lengthy stretch of career to be considered. kurt warner ABSOLUTELY DISAPPEARED for 6 FULL SEASONS. honestly, how many people knew he was still in the league before this year, or at best last year?
    .

  27. drhanniballector says: Feb 5, 2009 12:24 AM

    It’s funny to me how Warner has a vastly superior career than McNabb, yet Mcnabb is already having his bust cast for the hall of fame, but Warner we have to debate. I guess achieving more opportunities for utter failure, and achieving utter failure is an undebatable hall of fame career. Everyone else has to be debated.

  28. MostNutsEver says: Feb 5, 2009 12:28 AM

    Warner has to get in. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but multiple Pro Bowls, 3 NFC titles, a Super Bowl win and 2 MVPs. Do you really need that much more to get in the Hall of Fame?

  29. Henry Plainview says: Feb 5, 2009 12:31 AM

    Whoever posted this had better watch some more NFL!!! How many come from behind wins does BIG BEN have? Yeah thats what I thought more than any other Qb in the league. So wake up Ben is 2 For 2! What is Warner? Besides that it’s a team sport!! Go and watch some bochie ball buddy!!!!
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    actually Brady does.
    and since it’ a team sport, you can’t blame Warner for not winning 2 of 3. he did his part. Ben certainly hasn’t in the SB, minus one lucky drive. his defense won him that game.

  30. Oregon2000 says: Feb 5, 2009 1:12 AM

    Agree with Florio here, Warner is close, but not yet in. While he had a great forth quarter, and put up big passing yards, Warner was outplayed by Big Ben. On the two most important drives for Arizona, each at the end of each half, Steel Curtain 2 shut him down, sealing the win.
    Anyone who still thinks Ben isn’t among the elite QB’s by now is a fool, just listen to their points. Adding to the post by Blast Furnace, the 2007 BB season passer rating was actually higher than any of Tom(Mr. 18-1) Brady’s 2001-2006 season ratings. Also, Ben is only 13 comebacks short of tying Roger Staubach’s career record. Guess Staubach was a “game manager” too.

  31. bored_of_seinfeld_jokes says: Feb 5, 2009 1:16 AM

    I think it is ridiculous how much we talk about current players and if they are hall of fame worthy. And I don’t just mean Kurt – how many times do you hear someone refered to as “first ballot hall of famer” and other crap? The hall of fame should be considered over the course of someone’s career, and not based on how they’ve performed thus far or in a snapshot in time. Sure, Rothlisberger has won 2 super bowls in his young career, but the idea of calling him “HOF” already when he still has a decade plus of football ahead of him is a joke. What if he does crap for the next decade and becomes a journeyman?
    As far as warner, maybe the pundits should just wait to see how his career plays out before establishing phantom criteria every time they need something new to talk about.

  32. Nshima.com says: Feb 5, 2009 1:22 AM

    If I were voting, I’d put Kurt Warner in the Hall. He did everything he could to win the Super Bowl for the Cardinals.

  33. thecurseofmapco says: Feb 5, 2009 1:27 AM

    I can’t see Warner in the HOF at all. He owes most of his ridiculous numbers to the Greatest Show on Turf and he was not a clear #1 QB on his team for five consecutive years of what should have been his prime.
    Compare the average season for Warner and Culpepper over their entire careers (Warner has a one-year edge).
    Warner:
    10.8/10.1 GP/GS, 233/356, 65.4%, 2859 yds., 18.2/11.4 TD/INT
    Culpepper:
    10.67/10.51 GP/GS, 214/338, 63.3%, 2579 yds., 16.2/11.1 TD/INT
    Warner has a slight edge across the board (except INTs), but Culpepper edges Warner with 257 rush yds. and 3.47 rush TDs per game. That makes their total yardage per game virtually equal, and Culpepper produced 20 TD per game to Warner’s 18.5.
    Adding in Kurt Warner’s playoff success is the only reason to give him any consideration for the HOF, but he needs several more seasons as a starting QB to get there. He’s a great story and a very good QB, but the HOF should be about truly elite players.
    P.S. – Anyone on here who is arguing for Warner’s HOF candidacy based on his playoff/Super Bowl success, don’t ever question why guys like Lynn Swann and John Stallworth are HOFers.

  34. Osiris333 says: Feb 5, 2009 1:55 AM

    What a joke that Jackson of all people thinks Warner doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall. I didn’t hear him mention John Elway’s 4 abysmal choke losses in the Super Bowls he was in as a factor. Mike Shanahan has to be the most underrated coach of all time. He knew he’d never beat the Packers with Elway, so he put the ball in Terrell Davis’ hands 35 times and walked away with a trophy. If an overrated arm like Elway can make the Hall on the first ballot, Warner is a lock. At least he shows up for the big games.

  35. yamaha370 says: Feb 5, 2009 2:21 AM

    How many QBS won a super bowl? Exactly the team won them? Go to bed and shut up haters! I applaud all who won 2 or more! Ben will match Bradshaw and Montana I GUARNTEE IT!! Go on haters be jealous!!! lmao

  36. blinkbdj says: Feb 5, 2009 2:29 AM

    “Henry Plainview says:
    February 4th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Roethlisberger has 1 TD pass in 2 SB’s. Warner has all the SB passing records in 3 SB’s. Warner shows up in big games, Ben doesn’t. one lucky ass drive doesn’t cut it. being down 10-13 in the 4th does. then again, Ben has a defense. of course Ben is already enshrined, right? ”
    Ben has 19 4th quarter winning drives. All luck though, right?
    Haters in the house! Great to have one for the other thumb. Better luck next year Cardinals. You did great with our leftover players and coaches.

  37. kjack says: Feb 5, 2009 2:30 AM

    Any player who dominates the league as MVP twice should be in. Add 3 Super Bowl appearances and one win, close to top 20 all time in yardage, etc…. No brainer.
    Hall of Famer

  38. yamaha370 says: Feb 5, 2009 2:53 AM

    Henry Plainview says:
    February 5th, 2009 at 12:31 am
    Whoever posted this had better watch some more NFL!!! How many come from behind wins does BIG BEN have? Yeah thats what I thought more than any other Qb in the league. So wake up Ben is 2 For 2! What is Warner? Besides that it’s a team sport!! Go and watch some bochie ball buddy!!!!
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    actually Brady does.
    and since it’ a team sport, you can’t blame Warner for not winning 2 of 3. he did his part. Ben certainly hasn’t in the SB, minus one lucky drive. his defense won him that game.
    Ah his defense won the game? How many yards did Warner have on that defense? Go to bed man!!!! You are just jealous he is not on your team!!!He pulled a Montana on that drive!!!! Be jealous maybe when he is 40 and out of his prime he will choose to be on your team!!!! BOO YAH

  39. praveen says: Feb 5, 2009 3:01 AM

    Without Big Ben, Steelers do not make the SB in 2005. I am amazed at so called football experts who think Ben was a passenger on that 2005 team. The only thing true was that Big Ben had a bad SB. Ben came out passing at crucial times in the Cinci, Indy, and Denver SBs. It was Bettis who let the team down in Indy with a horrible fumble. If that Steelers team was so great, can someone explain why Maddox was losing almost every game at that stage?
    BUt this is about Warner. I think he deserves it. Who cares if he has had some lame years. For a HOF, durability is not my concern. My concern is how many great years he has had. Not how many good years and OK years. I will take a QB with 5 great years and a lot of nothing over a good QB with 10 good years. Jim Kelly is an exhibit of a bad choice for HOF because journalists like to play fantasy football instead of real football winning quality.
    My only problem is he did have bad pick 6s in two SBs that were a factor in losing the games. He atrocious in parts of the NE game where he gave up two costly INTs – one of them a pick 6 and the other one in his own territory leading to an easy TD. Otherwise, he would have been a slamdunk regardless of the anonymous years.
    Also I do think his different style of passing rejuvenated passing in the NFL when he came on board. I think that specialness should be an intangible that is recognized.

  40. samh says: Feb 5, 2009 6:48 AM

    From Kurt’s era you have Brett Favre, Petyon Manning, Tom Brady and probably Ben Roethlisberger who are all more deserving than Kurt Warner. Kurt threw a terrible, terrible pick-six before his team should have 3 or 6 and then he fumbled with the game on the line. Why does that need to go in the Hall of Fame? The offenses that he excelled in were loaded with talent (especially the Rams) and built to give him huge numbers and make him look good.

  41. Dan1919 says: Feb 5, 2009 7:09 AM

    Kurt Warner for Hall of Fame:
    Warner put up numbers in domes with Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Marshall Faulk. Now is putting up great numbers with Boldin and Fitzgerald. Kurt Warner will always be known as arena boy. Show me one bad weather game Warner has had.
    He only played 4 seasons of more than 12 games. How can that be HOF?
    Trivia: Who is the only QB in NFL history to throw “pick 6’s” that cost his team wins in 2 different Super Bowls?
    Answer: Kurt Warner

  42. TheDPR says: Feb 5, 2009 7:09 AM

    Of course he should be in. But just like the farce that is the Pro Bowl, “should be” doesn’t always get you there. It shouldn’t be about accumulated lifetime stats but apparently it is.

  43. Alpheratz says: Feb 5, 2009 8:24 AM

    Kurt will in, I have no doubt.
    Ben has a lot of career left to go, no sense debating that yet.
    He could easily win another ring or two, and that would make him a slam dunk.
    I’m no Pittsburgh fan, but Ben gets the one stat that matters, results.

  44. AllSeeingEye says: Feb 5, 2009 8:30 AM

    I will admit that before the superbowl I thought it was a bit of a stretch to talk about Kurt Warner to the Hall even with a win.
    But sometimes people get into the Hall of Fame on “extenuating circumstances” for lack of a better term: Gale Sayers for a short but brilliant career and other game changers who otherwise did not have the requisit “longevity”. Right now I think that win one superbowl win and being the ALL TIME LEADER in Superbowl history in passing yards and couple of other categories that Warner should go in based on these “extenuating circumstances”. The “history of the game” as one writer put it (Jason Whitlock I think) cannot be properly written without Warner and I think that makes him deserving.

  45. goofydg1 says: Feb 5, 2009 8:32 AM

    I disagree. I think he’s in. He gets credit for taking two teams to the Super Bowl. Both of which were longshots at the beginning of the season and had no or limited success without him.The Rams haven’t had a really good season since he left.

  46. south-fl-steel says: Feb 5, 2009 8:40 AM

    i’ll say it again, WARNER ABSOLUTELY DISSAPPEARED FOR 6 ENTIRE SEASONS!!!! that is NOT a hall of fame player.
    .

  47. GrabbermyColes says: Feb 5, 2009 8:49 AM

    Warner deserves to be in the Hall of fame. Maybe not a first round ballet, but he should be in there.

  48. pftfreak says: Feb 5, 2009 8:54 AM

    warner is a hall of famer…..hands down. If namath is in, and swann is in, this is a no brainer. Namath #TD: 173 Int: 220 Yds: 27,663 Rate: 65.5
    Warner# TD: 182 Int: 114 Yds: 28,591 Rate: 93.8
    by the way, thats the thrid highest rating in a career, behind hof’er steve young and future hof’er peyton manning

  49. NightTrainWooWoo says: Feb 5, 2009 9:02 AM

    How is someone who wasn’t regarded as the best QB on his team for most of his career a hall of famer? He didn’t make the team in Green Bay, he lost his job to Bulger in St. Louis, lost his job to Eli in NY, and if Leinhart doesn’t get hurt in AZ a few years ago he’s still riding the pine. Even this year he barely beat out Matt for his job. Now he’s a hall of famer? That’s why they have the 5 year waiting period to get into the Hall, so you can take emotion out of it.

  50. pftfreak says: Feb 5, 2009 9:18 AM

    WOW, pittsburgh fans are asses

  51. stiller43 says: Feb 5, 2009 9:24 AM

    Joe 6-pack,
    Ben’s offense put up 20 points by the 4th quarter, so I don’t how it equals 2 FGs in your mind. He lead them to 3 scoring drives. Kurt Warner’s offense scored once by that point, and that’s why he was able to have a great comeback and tons of passing yards. Prevent defense does wonders for a QBs passing stats.

  52. rather says: Feb 5, 2009 9:33 AM

    >>WOW, pittsburgh fans are asses
    and the award for most accurate thing ever posted in pft goes to pftfreak

  53. mrmagoo says: Feb 5, 2009 9:52 AM

    This is a tough one after the big lull in his career. I’m not normally wishy-washy but I can truly see both sides of this argument. Whichever way it ends up, you have to look at his SuperBowl stats and recognize how clutch he was. He might be 1-2 in the SuperBowl but his play hasn’t been the reason (end of 1st half interception excepted).

  54. CaptainFantastik says: Feb 5, 2009 10:33 AM

    ” Ben’s offense put up 2 field goals at that point in the fourth. The other 7, and more than half the points at that time, were from Harrison’s amazing interception return. Ben played well, but honestly the guy shouldn’t be considered an elite QB just yet. He’s good, to be certain, but he’s definitely not on Brady or Manning level.”
    ————————————————————-
    Brady is a fantastic QB and probably the most accurate thrower in the league, but he’s not a playmaker. Super Bowl XLII was the perfect illustration that if Brady doesn’t get great protection up front he becomes Rex Grossman pretty quick. Ben probably would’ve won that game for you guys by shedding sacks and getting outside the pocket to MAKE PLAYS. All those plays Ben just made in the Super Bowl (and has been making for 5 years now) Brady couldn’t make in a million years even when he was healthy, and certainly not now that he’s a gimp. Same with Manning, although he’s a little better than Brady at buying a little time to extend the play. Matt Cassel is FAR better than Brady at getting outside the pocket to extend the play.
    Ben had one of the worst O-lines in the league in 07 and still finished only 2nd to Brady in passer rating……..and Brady had one of the best lines in the league and Moss/Welker. Brady or Manning would’ve been deceased by week 6 of last year behind our line, not flourish like Ben. Hell, we learned in Super Bowl XLII that even Eli has more playmaking ability than Brady. Ol’ Tom Terrific could’ve never escaped that pressure and made that play at the end.
    You guys can have Peyton and Tom, we’re perfectly happy with the guy who will go down as probably the greatest playmaking QB in NFL history (look out Elway, Favre, and Young…..Big Ben is already breathing down your neck with alot of football left in him).

  55. Pea Tear Griffin says: Feb 5, 2009 10:48 AM

    People need to realize there is a difference between the Hall of Fame and the hall of very good. Right now Warner would belong to the latter.
    “Warner would need to put together a couple of additional solid seasons, and ideally to finish in the top twenty in passing yards (he needs 5,000 more) and passing touchdowns (he needs 50).”
    -That might get him there.

  56. HGH says: Feb 5, 2009 10:59 AM

    CaptainFantastik says:
    February 5th, 2009 at 10:33 am
    ” Ben’s offense put up 2 field goals at that point in the fourth. The other 7, and more than half the points at that time, were from Harrison’s amazing interception return. Ben played well, but honestly the guy shouldn’t be considered an elite QB just yet. He’s good, to be certain, but he’s definitely not on Brady or Manning level.”
    ————————————————————-
    Brady is a fantastic QB and probably the most accurate thrower in the league, but he’s not a playmaker. Super Bowl XLII was the perfect illustration that if Brady doesn’t get great protection up front he becomes Rex Grossman pretty quick. Ben probably would’ve won that game for you guys by shedding sacks and getting outside the pocket to MAKE PLAYS. All those plays Ben just made in the Super Bowl (and has been making for 5 years now) Brady couldn’t make in a million years even when he was healthy, and certainly not now that he’s a gimp. Same with Manning, although he’s a little better than Brady at buying a little time to extend the play. Matt Cassel is FAR better than Brady at getting outside the pocket to extend the play.
    Ben had one of the worst O-lines in the league in 07 and still finished only 2nd to Brady in passer rating……..and Brady had one of the best lines in the league and Moss/Welker. Brady or Manning would’ve been deceased by week 6 of last year behind our line, not flourish like Ben. Hell, we learned in Super Bowl XLII that even Eli has more playmaking ability than Brady. Ol’ Tom Terrific could’ve never escaped that pressure and made that play at the end.
    You guys can have Peyton and Tom, we’re perfectly happy with the guy who will go down as probably the greatest playmaking QB in NFL history (look out Elway, Favre, and Young…..Big Ben is already breathing down your neck with alot of football left in him).
    >>and the award for dumbest post ever goes to captinfantastik

  57. Frank Burns says: Feb 5, 2009 11:03 AM

    Let me end the debate right now.
    If you don’t realize what a great QB Roethlisberger is, you’re a moron.
    Bye.

  58. CaptainFantastik says: Feb 5, 2009 11:05 AM

    Pea Tear,
    I can see your point, but there are QB’s already in the Hall that don’t even meet those requirements.

  59. Mbehavin2 says: Feb 5, 2009 11:43 AM

    Roethlisberger is an incredible QB. If the Steelers do not get him an OL his career will be cut short due to the beatings he gets every week let alone the sacks. Those hits are already taking their toll on him.
    Warner took 3 teams to the Super Bowl that would not have made it without him. Why Martz chose Bulger over Warner may never be known, the results for the Rams have not been anywhere close to what they had with Warner before he was replaced.
    As soon as the Giants traded for Eli he was the starting QB, the position was handed to him and taken away from Warner.
    Warner kept after it in AZ got the starting job and took them to the Super Bowl. He knows how to get the ball out and into the receivers hands.
    They both will end up in the Hall. Roeth quicker than we all think unless they get him some blocking.

  60. Darth Ringo says: Feb 5, 2009 12:05 PM

    “Mike Ditka chimed in by pointing to Warner’s off-field exploits…”
    What off-field exploits? The fact he’s a Christian? The hundreds of thousands of dollars donated to charity?
    Maybe I missed something along the way, but Warner seems to be a pretty even-keeled guy “off the field.”
    And please STOP with the “Hall of very good” analogies, that gets overplayed every year.

  61. Kevin from Philly says: Feb 5, 2009 2:36 PM

    You can debate Warner as a HOF QB all you want, but who gives a crap what the ESPN guys think? His best bet is probably to go into braodcasting – that seems to get borderline talent more consideration.

  62. thirteen28 says: Feb 5, 2009 2:40 PM

    Warren Moon is in the Hall on the strength of nothing more than regular season numbers, despite the fact that he never did squat in big games and was a pathetic failure in the playoffs. Warner is 8-3 in the playoffs, with 3 NFC championships and one Super Bowl ring … and you guys are questioning his candidacy?
    Warner is far more worthy than a number of QB’s that are already in the Hall, and if you are going to support the induction of Moon, Fouts, and several others that accomplished little or nothing in the postseason, then you have no business saying Warner is not worthy.

  63. ihatethejets says: Feb 5, 2009 4:21 PM

    warner has only had 4 seasons of HOF-worthy play. those seasons have came playing with the likes of marshall faulk, torry holt, isaac bruce, larry fitzgerald, anquan boldin, edgerin james, etc…he also had a mediocre (at best) 6 year span. hall of famers dont suck/get benched repeatedly for 6 straight years. his super bowl numbers are misleading also. not only has he thrown an awful pick six in 2

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