We’ve been intrigued lately by the comments of Jamie Dukes of NFL Network, on the air, at NFL.com, and on his Twitter page.
Dukes, who spent ten years in the NFL with the Falcons, Packers, and Cardinals, believes it’s unrealistic to expect NFL players to stay out of trouble, because they are human beings.
In a blog item at NFL.com, Dukes discussed a recent production meeting for NFLN’s Total Access. “We kicked the conversation
around for 20 minutes, and there was a reoccurring theme that kept
coming up,” Dukes writes. “The theme was the idea that there is an expectation among
the populous that NFL players are supposed to be perfect because they
were given the right to play football. THAT NOTION IS LUDICROUS!”
Dukes, invoking the Biblical admonition against casting the first stone, argues that we need to remember that these players are people.
“Everyone should be held to the same standards,” Dukes says. “Players are just plain
old people who happen to have extraordinary talent, like many others do
in other endeavors. To think they are somehow not going to be subject
to the same human temptations as you is foolish. Talent doesn’t make
you immune to being human.”
He’s right. People in every walk of life will make mistakes. But when celebrities and athletes make mistakes, the situation is magnified, because the media is interested. And the media is interested because the media believes (accurately in most cases) that their viewers and readers and listeners will be interested.
As a result, mistakes without consequences among NFL players eventually will undermine — and potentially will destroy — public confidence in the sport.
So while mistakes are inevitable, the consequences should be inevitable as well.
That’s the key point, in our view. Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn’t believe that taking a hard line will lead to a league in which no one ever gets into trouble, and Goodell surely derives no pleasure from instructing a player to sit in the corner for an extended period of time.
Instead, Goodell believes (we believe) that the consumers of the NFL’s products will not stop devoting their money, time, and attention to the sport if the sport reacts swiftly and decisively to the misconduct of its players and employees.
Though it’s impossible to keep every guy who enters the league from eventually doing something he shouldn’t do, the clear link between making a “mistake” (we still think that term grossly trivializes 90 percent of all criminal activity) and not getting paid for a month or longer might persuade some guys who are inclined to make a “mistake” to instead learn from the examples created via those who already have.
And if only a handful of guys every year think twice before driving drunk or beating up their wives or girlfriends or carrying a loaded and unlicensed gun in the waistband of their sweatpants or maintaining for six years in a secret rural location with lax local law enforcement a dogfighting operation because of the examples established via the “mistakes” of others, then Goodell’s approach is successful.
So we agree with Dukes’ point. But we think he needs to take a broader view of Goodell’s objectives. At the end of the day, the goal is to ensure that the NFL’s customers will have the desire to continue to attend games in person, watch games on television, and follow the sport religiously by, for example, tuning in to NFL Network and/or striking the buttons “nfl.com.”
He is right that people are going to get into trouble. However NFL players seem to get into an inordinate amount of trouble when compared to baseball or hockey players.
Yes, people DO make mistakes. The problem is that athletes make mistakes that most fans can’t relate to. I can relate to a speeding ticket, taking PEDs or even a DUI. I can’t relate to fighting with a cop at a club at 4am. I can’t relate to carrying an unlicensed, loaded gun. And I certainly can’t relate to multiple recurrences of these events.
And it makes no sense that people in the economic tier occupied by NFL players commit crimes or “make mistakes” at they rate they do. I suspect that the workaday suburbanites in my 1,400-home development “make mistakes” at a FAR slower pace than do NFL players.
I don’t agree at all. Players in the NFL should be held to the standards that the teams wish them to be held. With the kind of financial investment in the players, if a team tells a player to earn that money they have to stay at home every night, then they should have to.
If I were to shoot myself in the leg or get a DUI, I would get fired from my job. Having a job is something you earn and it is a privilege, not a right. Plaxico Burress has the potential to earn a lot of money in the NFL. If he does something that get’s him fired (like shoot himself in the leg with an illegal handgun at a club in NY), he can go get a job at McDonalds (if they will have him) and get a low rent apartment.
Once these athletes figure out they are damned lucky to have the opportunity to play in the league, for the money they get, they might figure it out.
Dukes sounds like an apologist who doesn’t get it. You hit the important point right on the mark, Mike:
“So while mistakes are inevitable, the consequences should be inevitable as well. ”
No one expects the league to be any cleaner than the general public, but it should at least be AS CLEAN, and the punishments should be AS SEVERE as in any other public profession when people screw up.
I’m human, and I make mistakes. But I’ve never been arrested. Hmmm.
Way to twist Jamie. Make it sound like the NFL is a micro-section of normal people. Normal people don’t have pockets full of “rain” to cast over truckloads of easy virtue at three in the morning while drunk and high and carrying some exotic foriegn handgun while driving a armour plated SUV through the bad part of a bad town with his three body-gaurds and their Uzi’s in search of the interstate they somehow managed to have lost.
The truth is that these young kidz (not ALL Jamie, just way too many) have been spoiled and enabled all their lives and they think theyu are entitled to gratify their every notion and they have been (unfortunateky) led to believe they’ll not be held accountable.
Cheers, BostonTim
Of course everybody makes mistakes. The problem that Dukes fails (conveniently) to address is that when regular, 9-5 Joe’s do things that NFL players do, they go to jail, lose their jobs and generally really screw up their lives. NFL players just laugh it off with a smirk and continue to repeat the same behaviors with little consequence.
Florio writes: “As a result, mistakes without consequences among NFL players eventually will undermine — and potentially will destroy — public confidence in the sport.”
I watch the NFL to be entertained. It is entertaining to watch Michael Vick run for a 50 yard TD in overtime to beat the Vikings.
It is entertaining to watch Pacman intercept passes and return punts for TDs.
I don’t care what they do off the field. I don’t care that Burress shot himself.
I do care that Stallworth’s actions deprived a person of his life and a family of its son, husband, father.
However, the LEGAL system should take care of all these issues.
None of these actions undermine my confidence in the game. What would? Well, since you ask, an official’s gambling scandal, bribery, etc.
The argument that “I would lose my job” if I did that is meritless. If the employer wants to fire Vick or Burress or Pacman (where is he at) then the employer will — just like yours.
Quite frankly, if you can bring profit to the business you will be retained or hired by someone else. If you can’t, you won’t.
The problem with this wrist-slapping mentality is that athletes, given an inch, will take 1,000 miles. Their ability earns them millions of dollars, and those millions of dollars can nullify any punishment for their legal misdeeds. No threat of punishment by the courts AND by Roger Goodell would lead to more than just poor role models. It would endanger the public.
This mentality gives idiots like Jamie Dukes the rope to equate heinous crimes such as dog fighting and weapons violations with “mistakes” that the “general populous” makes every day.
It seems true that NFL players engage in criminal activity (Or are caught?) at a higher rate than the population at large. Florio, are you aware of any data that would support or contradict that view? It would be very interesting to compare NFL players with us “regular” citizens. I bet Goodell would have access to such information.
Dukes has used the expression “Today’s players aren’t wound that way” to refer to such things as 1) knowing the history of the NFL (they don’t), 2) avoiding temptations because they are human (the majority are human and actually do stay out of trouble). To me it is not about functioning simply as an amoeba-like organism but rather behaving as a human being who can actually think. You know one who makes choices.
I agree with Florio: stop trivializing choices to break the law as “mistakes.” Goodell may be guarding the goose that lays the golden egg when he penalizes NFL transfressors, but he is also being the person (father authority) who finally says, “There are consequences for your bad choices, son.” Man-up, you so-called professional football players. Stop being athletically agile amoebas.
And, Mr. Dukes . . . “plain old people” do not frequent strip clubs until the wee hours (they have responsibilities, including going to work the next morning); they also don’t carry load weapons in their waistband (“plain old people” basicaly do not live on that dark edge of a hood gun culture and, once again, most NFL players don’t either). So, Mr. Dukes stop being an apologist for those athletically talented individuals who . . . make really bad choices.
This Dukes guy has point. They’re regular people who just have more talent than regular people. The mistakes that NFL players commit mimic the the general population. I certainly wouldn’t wanna see a bunch of goodie 2 shoes playin football. And besides if no NFL players got arrested it would start to look like something suspicious was goin on. I think the only reason these mistakes are magnified so much is because Goodell is taking such a hard stance on personal behavior that whenever a player is arrested its blown up like Micheal Jackson died. If Goodell wasn’t such a dick about things maybe alot of people wouldn’t care as much. At the end of the day its only entertainment anyway.
It does not seem that unrealistic to want a league of gentlemen that can avoid driving drunk and killing pedestrians, running organizad gambling syndicates that also kill dogs, or behaving in a generally accepted manner within the limits of the laws of our land. Maybe Jamie Dukes needs to stop hiding behind an overused biblical axiom of forgiveness, and expect men to be stand-up citizens!
I’ve never had a DUI and killed somebody. Can I cast the first stone? This argument is ridiculous! It’s not about “mistakes”. It’s about PAYING for those mistakes. Celebrities have had a pattern of not getting the same punishments as Joe Public. I see nothing wrong with Goodell’s actions.
Jamie Dukes is a fat-assed, loud mouthed, braindead hack. He is such a huge player apologist that even when he comes close to making a valid point, his lack of credibility undermines it.
This is the same man that reprimanded the Commish for suspending Mike Vick despite “a lack of concrete evidence.” When Rich Eisen asked what he considered concrete evidence Jamie Dookie said, “I would need video proof of him at a dog fight in the front row.”
Nevermind the mountains of physical evidence like rape stands, dog steroids, multiple dog fighting rings, financial records, eye witnesses, several hidden buildings, and F’N DOG CARCASSES buried outside those buildings.
Anytime I see that big egg shaped head with fecal matter prepared to spew forth I change the channel…which sucks cause I love NFLN.
First of all, Dukes is a clown. If I was charged and convisted of a felony, such as dog fighting or vehiculer manslaughter because I was drunk, I would be fired from my employer. The players get suspended. I think what Doodell is doing is awesome. Because they make so much money to play a game, they should be held to higher standards, but they are really not. Dante Stallworth should never play again. And piss on the political bullshit that went on that enabled him to basically walk away from what he did. I would have gotten more time in jail if I just got pulled over for DUI, let alone kill someone. I have much more respect for the NFL now that Goodell is the commissioner.
As long as we’re being realistic-let’s be realistic.
“A mistake” is taking a wrong turn downtown when looking for a doctor’s office, or adding or forgetting an ingredient when preparing a meal. “A mistake is forgetting to carry a number when doing math long hand (without a calculator). A mistake “is not” slamming dogs on cement, electrocuting dogs or hanging dogs by the neck until dead because they don’t kill each other in a expediting fashion. That’s (dogfighting) evil and sadistic, you don’t wake up one morning and decide “well, I’ll be evil and sadistic today”-it’s part of you or all of you or none of you. A mistake “is not’ abusing and or killing a woman who’s about to have your child. I like Jamie Dukes and I love the NFL Network, they do a gret job, I watch it habitually. But have you ever noticed they (Jamie Dukes, Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Warren Sapp not to mention others) make too many excuses for football players outrageous, get away with it behavior. These are grown men, not 5 year olds. Why isn’t Plaxico in prison right now and Stallworth doing serious time etc?
My job expects me to stay out of trouble. For most of the population, that is true. So, why shouldn’t the employer of these players — the League (that’s what single entity gets you) expect any less? It is not holding to a higher standard, it is holding to same standard.
If I break the law, I lose my job. I don’t get to appeal to get it back. If players break the law, they are amazed they are even suspended.
dasboat, I totally agree. I think the problem is not that players commit crimes. It’s the specific crimes they commit. I can understand the speeding tickets, DUIs, even Stallworth accidentally killing a guy on a bike who tried crossing the road while not at an intersection. These are bad things….in Stallworth’s case, horrible things, but it can happen to anybody. But what chaps my ass is the stupid sh*t. Travis Henry has what, 30 freaking kids and can’t pay child support? Pacman gets a big contract and all of a sudden he needs to “make it rain”. The article hits the nail on the head. Players are regular people….and some people are dipsh*ts. It’s just unfortunate that when you give a dipsh*t millions of dollars, their stupidity is magnafied.
I don’t agree with you that it undermines public confidence in the sport because we watch these guys because they play football, and your own statement is debunked by the fact that you have a site called profootballtak.com which is doing okay. If football wasn’t the reason why we watched them and it was more of a TMZ type things where we just watched their lives, I think the publuic would care and still be intrigued, but the fact that their popularity is derived from what they do on the football field and what team they play for and how they present themselves (why Ray Lewis who is boisterous and who was also suspected of taking part in a murder is more popular than a lot of other good players).
One reader/commenter brought up an excellent point in that look at all of the stuff musicians and entertainers do (sex, drugs and rock and roll). How many rock stars glorify their use of heroin and other hardcore, illicit drugs, and even say that they were under the influence when they wrote them? Yet, there are still posters of these guys on bedroom walls, and kids still sing their sexually explicit songs (hence Pink Floyd’s ‘Comfortably Numb’, which is an amazing song). I could, and a lot of other people, care less about if these guys get arrested for marijuana possession, speeding, drunk and disorderly, or even DUIs because there are a lot of people who are non-public figures who are arrested for the same crimes, and, in fact, do much worse things. The two biggest crimes that I know of that happened regarding NFL players are the murders by OJ, and Ray Carruth’s attempted murder (I think it may have been murder, someone will correct me). There have been much worse things done by everday people and even they do not face the constant barrage of media coverage that these guys do. Mike Vick killed dogs and set up an illegal gambling ring (which in my eyes is akin to running a high stakes poker game in your house), and he probably has been more villified and faced a more constant media barrage than child molesters just because he plays football and ESPN, et. al want to keep the story alive because it draws viewers, because while what he did was bad, it’s not sickening enough (like molesting children) for people to change the channel when it comes on.
I am with you on that mistake thing, though, as people want to lessen their responsibility and burden by uttering one word when they ultimately chose the action they did and it was not a “mistake” at the time they were doing it, but only once they were caught.
But the media does love to cast the first stone and take a superior moral high ground when looking at these guys. I would like anyone who drives to locations to drink honestly tell me that they have never driven a car after having two drinks. Sure, you might think that since you only had two drinks that you are fine to drive, but unless you have a breathalizer with you and blow into it, you have no idea what your BAC is and how you body is reacting to the alcohol in your system because it doesn’t always react the same. In addition, everyone speeds (flow of traffic) and if we were to make it a spectacle every time someone gets a traffic infraction, imagine what the news would look like. Sure these guys have money, but it does not change their human psyche. It only changes what they can acquire and how they can be taken advantage of. These guys face a lot of things that are foreign to us and have to figure out how to deal with them on the fly (not saying it’s an excuse to do whatever you want).
Dasboat, sure you can’t relate to carrying an unlicensed, loaded gun, but can you honestly tell me that with all of the guns on the street and those police programs where people can turn in their guns, no questions asked, that there aren’t unlicensed guns out there? I can’t relate to a DUI because I have never driven after even one drink and will never, I can say that with confidence, do that because I don’t like putting myself in situations where I can be arrested or end up going to the clink. Aside from that, I think it’s one of the stupidest things that you can do even if you are making the decision while you are “legally” drunk. Also, you would be amazed at how many people in that economic tier do things that are swept under the rug or just not as publicized because they are taken care of quietly.
It’s funny that some people actually believe that Goodell’s impersonation of a Supreme Court Justice over the last couple years is helping the league. People aren’t going to stop watching pro football because of a few bad apples. They won’t stop buying apparel, they won’t stop buying tickets, and they won’t stop tuning in on Sundays. Americans are insatiable gluttons. Americans know fast food is bad for them and yet they continue to gorge themselves into the fattest nation on the planet. The same is true of their viewing habits with regard to sports…..especially football.
If anything, people are going to stop watching because the game resembles what it is supposed to be a little less every year with Goodell’s continued tinkering with the rule book and pussification of the game. That is what will have people watching less. I don’t plan on watching a single NFL game this year that doesn’t involve my favorite team. And in 5 years when QB’s are wearing red jerseys or flags on their belts i doubt i’ll be watching at all.
You guys are forgetting when Mike talks about the NFL making money he is not talking about you and me as fans. We will come back it has been proven over and over again you can not drive fans away as long as you put an entertaining sport on the field.
He is talking about Madison ave. That is where the sports world makes the real money. Idiot players need to realize that your image directly impacts the leagues ability to sell its product to corporate America.
For every Payton there is a Pacman. The more Paytons the more money they can suck in for the greater good of the league. The players will wake up one of these days and get the message. I think it is kind of what the NBA went through in the early 2000s. Iverson, Jailblazers, malice in the palace, Business casual on the bench, etc….They cleaned up the image and the players got the message if you continue to act like idiots the paychecks will go down.
Jamie Dukes must run in a very different social circle than the one I run in.
None of my friends have ever shot themselves with an unlicensed gun in a night club.
None of my friends have ever mowed down a pedestrian because they were driving drunk and high.
None of my friends have ever stood trial for murder.
None of my friends were ever arrested for having an illegal arsenal in their house.
None of my friends have scores of pit bulls mutilated and buried in their back yard.
If these activities strike Jamie Dukes as the norm or not out of the ordinary, he ought to examine his own life– not stomp his foot and point fingers at us for having unreasonable expectations.
HAHA… Jamie Dukes is speaking again!!! Hush everybody, this will be good!!!
This is what I say everytime this moron speaks. He rambles on and on making little sense. I completely expect athletes, as I do with regular people, not to act like idiots and do things to put their careers, and in some cases their own or other peoples lives, in jeopardy. It is not more difficult for an athlete to stay out of trouble than others, just more in the public eye, which, whether they like it or not, puts them in a position to at least attempt to live more straight than others would have to. It’s the downside, small as it may be, to being an athlete.
Don’t worry too much about Jamie Dukes though. This is the same man that still believes Vince Young is the next best thing and has gotten a raw deal because he has no team to play with. Last I checked, they didn’t do too bad when the switch at QB happened, and surprizingly, I never heard him talk about it ever again!!!
Forget the monster and he’ll go away!!!
Yup they are human beings and they will make mistakes. However they should suffer the same penalties “plain old” people do and not get to walk just because they have an “extraordinary talent” for a sport.
Thank you Mr Double Standard Dukes. The guy is an idiot. He is the biggest apologist for athlete criminal behavior on the air. Hey Dukes how about a little bit of GFY for you.
Chitown, the league’s popularity is driven by fans, and that popularity largely determines whether a company is going to want to be a sponsor. Most of these sponsors pay their money ahead of time and have deals in place for a period of time. Furthermore, business is about making money, and when they have the opportunity to market their product to all of the people who watch the NFL, a few bad apples aren’t going to be enough for a company to withdraw given the positives it would be giving away. That being said, if one sponsor drops, there will be five more lined up to step in their place. There’s a reason why superbowl ads cost a lot of money, regardless of how good the game actually is. Sponsors know people are going to watch and they want to use that vehicle to turn people on to their product.
When Dukes says “Everyone should be held to the same standards,” I couldn’t agree more. Now lets go back and look at some NFL cases shall we Jamie?
In New York state, I believe it is a MANDATORY 3 year prison sentence for carrying an unlicensed weapon. So what is taking so long in the Burress case Jamie? Shouldn’t he have been charged already like those of less fame would have been?
How many people do you know, Jamie, that killed someone while driving drunk and only got 30 days in jail? I do not know of anyone, and I would venture to guess that if Donte Stallworth was just an average Joe and not a millionaire athelete, he would have received a much longer sentence than the paltry 30 days he received.
Honestly, if Adam Jones did not have the money he had, or the fame, would he currently be a free man after his consistent run-ins with the law?
Again, I couldn’t agree more with you Jamie. Athletes and celebrities need to be held to the same standard as the rest of us and not given preferential treatment.
I could care less if Vick or Burress or Stallworth remain suspended or don’t face suspension. I would just like to get the NFL network.
Baseball players are smarter on the whole, and know enough to stay out of the kinds of trouble that the caged animal NFL player seems to relish.
Maybe there should be an appeal board made up of former players that could lessen or or dismiss Goodell’s penalties. OJ is available…
I’ve said this before – several times – and I’m always ridiculed or accused of a pro-Bengals bias – but it was EASY for Goodell, the talking head/pundits, fans of other teams, etc, to talk about “getting tough on bad behavior” and “cleaning up the league” when we were talking about a few players (Chris Henry, Pacman Jones). It was fun to joke and mock when it was one team in the spotlight (my Bengals). But now that everyone is really examining the behavior of all these guys, on all the teams, it’s become obvious that if we really cracked-down, every team in the league would be losing players, some of them STARS, to suspensions. If you think I’m wrong, just click on the “police blotter” link at the top of this page.
KD
JSpicoli says:
July 3, 2009 11:55 AM
Baseball players are smarter on the whole
Actually, in a recent sports illustrated fact, 26 out of 1,042 MLB players and managers have a college degree. So the notion that they are smarter on the whole should be dismissed, maybe they use better judgment but they are not necessarily smarter.
Jamie Dukes is an idiot. He is still waiting on that cell phone photo of Vick at a dog fight before he believes Vick is guilty of anything.
He is the biggest moron when it comes to sports commentators.
Most of you have correctly nailed Dukes dead to rights as a ridiculous apologist for bad behavior of his “chosen few” athletes.
Cris Carter made an interesting point the other day when the NFL Live crew was talking about the behavior of NFL players vis a vis the population at large. He said it isn’t just NFL players but kids in general these days who are more knuckleheaded than they used to be. I think he is correct.
NFL is looking out profits and any money making idea. The NFL is becoming a circus with pricey tickets and gear…. People get into trouble everyday, should a player have a gun without the proper paperwork, the answer is NO. Should a player be involved in a “Dog Fighting Ring”, NO…. But this stuff happens everyday in America….. Courts see people on gun charges and speeding tickets daily….. They are in the spot light, they have a talent…. Granted some players have the act that they are untouchable and forget that the public eye goes all the way to their front door…. Gooddell is protecting his “American Dream” and his public eye…..