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Too much money for Eli Manning?

Eighteen months after one of the most famous plays in NFL history — the run and duck, dodge and chuck to a man who caught the ball with his helmet like Fred Biletnikoff sans stickum, the careers of the two key participants in that championship-altering play couldn’t be heading in more different directions.

The guy who threw the ball has signed a six-year, $97.5 million contract extension.  The guy who caught the ball is, by all appearances, in danger of being cut.

So while the New York Giants arguably aren’t showing much gratitude to receiver David Tyree, they’re arguably showing way too much of it to quarterback Eli Manning.

Really, what has Eli done to deserve an average annual take of $15.2 million over the next seven years?  His career passer rating falls south of 80 points, at 76.1.  With receiver Plaxico Burress gone for good, that number might go even lower in 2009.

What we can’t understand is why the Giants didn’t simply wait another year to see what Manning will do with a receiving corps that conjures memories of the relative no-names who were snagging darts from Tom Brady pre-2007.  Manning’s brother, Peyton, signed his long-term deal after the expiration of his rookie contract, at a time when the franchise tag could have been applied to him.  So why not let 2009 play itself out and, if all else fails, slap the exclusive version of the franchise tag on Eli in 2010?

If nothing else, the Giants would have been guaranteed that Manning would be going all out this year to drive up his value.  As it now stands, maybe he’ll now lose a little of his edge in 2009, given that he has finally cashed in with a record-setting deal.

Think back to November 2007.  After a woeful, four-interception performance against the Vikings, whispers were becoming murmurs that the Giants had kept the wrong quarterback on Draft Day 2004, and that Eli might never be nearly as good as Peyton.

Somehow, the Giants turned things around, made it to the postseason, and finagled four straight wins in close, hard-fought playoff games.  The unlikely accomplishment made Eli the toast of New York, prompting the media and the fans to forget the fact that Manning’s full-season passer rating had been a Kordellian 73.9.

So it hardly has been established that Eli Manning is one of the best quarterbacks in the game.  In our view, he trails Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Donovan McNabb.  [UPDATE:  And Drew Brees.] 

Soon, Matt Ryan might leapfrog the Eli.  And the Jets have a rookie quarterback who could soon capture the imagination of New Yorkers both with high-end play and a personality that looks to be a lot spicier than Manning’s aw-shucks Milquetoast shtick.

Bottom line?  The Giants could have broken the bank for Eli Manning after the coming season just as dramatically as they did it today.  Given the full range of Eli’s career, it might have been prudent to let him prove that he’s more like the guy who showed up in January and February 2008 — and less like the guy we’ve seen for most of the rest of his career.

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139 Responses to “Too much money for Eli Manning?”
  1. philwauke says: Aug 5, 2009 8:17 PM

    It’s called an uncapped year gooftroop.

  2. gonzolo4 says: Aug 5, 2009 8:17 PM

    I would still Peyton over Eli any day of the week

  3. Somnambulus says: Aug 5, 2009 8:18 PM

    Yeah dude. Rip it.

  4. smiley says: Aug 5, 2009 8:19 PM

    Wow……where does that put the value at for the best QB’s?

  5. PatricktheDookie says: Aug 5, 2009 8:19 PM

    Why sign him now? Would anybody else have paid anything close to this amount for Eli?
    (Other than the Redskins)
    This makes no sense.

  6. nittanylion0 says: Aug 5, 2009 8:25 PM

    i would like to know how the Giants have done David Tyree wrong. the guy has been hurt since The Catch. they’ve kept him around, kept him involved, wen they’ve had every opportunity to cut him and leave him flapping in the breeze… they’re giving him every chance to come be a part of the roster, giving him plenty of reps at WR. and if his speed is there, you know Coughlin wants him on the roster as a special teamer.
    i’ll stick by the assessment of the worthiness of this contract i made earlier today. the fantasy types can have their Phil Riverses and Donovan McNabbs. i’ll take the mysterious dope-ish moxie of Eli.

  7. amdiggs says: Aug 5, 2009 8:26 PM

    Eli is over rated!!!!!!!

  8. TheDPR says: Aug 5, 2009 8:27 PM

    Eli’s ok but he’s not a top tier QB and shouldn’t be paid like one.
    He’s a middle of the pack QB.

  9. Dennis says: Aug 5, 2009 8:28 PM

    Drew Brees is annoyed by your list of better QBs than Eli.
    Damn, wasted 10 minutes finally signing up for an account on the new site and you fixed it.

  10. Facts Domino says: Aug 5, 2009 8:28 PM

    Of course not.
    Not everyone has the makeup to play in NYC. Manning clearly does.
    Considering Stafford was given more guaranteed money and the likelihood that this contract will be surpassed shortly, it’s not too much money.
    He’s easily one of the more valuable quarterbacks to his teams in the NFL. He doesn’t have the value of his brother, but who does?
    What were the Giants going to do? Let him go to Minnesota and watch him get even more rings? Draft the overrated Tebow or throw the same amount of money at someone that might not be able to do anything in NYC?

  11. PSimms1186 says: Aug 5, 2009 8:29 PM

    This is the most poorly thought out article I have ever read. Florio needs to get a grip on reality. Favre, Elway, Manning and Brady are the best because they won superbowls. To even mention Rivers(can’t win a big game) or Ryan in the same sentence as Eli is a joke. Eli has been to the playoffs every year as a starter and carried the team through to a superbowl victory 2 seasons ago. Eli has dealt with Tiki, Shockey and Plaxico and just keeps winning. He is a big time clutch QB that wins the big games and he should be paid accordingly. What are San Diego and Dallas getting for their money? In a few years everyone will realize that the Giants got a steal today. Jerry Reese will eventually go down as the greatest GM of all time!

  12. Zaggs says: Aug 5, 2009 8:39 PM

    Of your QB’s that Eli supposedly trails, how many have rings? Only 3. For all his stats Peyton has as many rings as Eli. Eli beat Tom Brady. If it had been all up to Big Ben Pittsburg would have lost both superbowls.
    Also how many games have they missed? Has Eli ever missed a game?
    Eli is on a team that favors the run more so over the pass. He doesn’t have a stable of receivers like Peyton or Brady nor at time as good of a team as Ben. McNabb’s greatest accomplishment in his career is blowing Chunkys on national television.

  13. Anrkist says: Aug 5, 2009 8:43 PM

    Eli still has plenty to work for, like stepping out of his brothers shadow. That’s more powerful than a huge contract. In fact, it may even bolster him more.

  14. jbruder02 says: Aug 5, 2009 8:46 PM

    I don’t think that Eli is all that great, but the man has won a Super Bowl.
    It’s just the going rate for a good QB anymore, that’s all there is to it. I would put Eli in my top ten personally, but probably lower than 5.
    He’s definitely over paid but most players in the NFL are, just wait until Rivers signs his next deal. He’s done nothing in this league as far as winning goes but he’ll be paid very well for his services. But everyone is on his dick and no one will think twice about it, esp. this site.
    At least Eli is collecting after proving something in this league unlike QB’s like McNabb, Garrard, Cassell, Romo, etc. which have all collected money for what reason exactly?

  15. FleamarketHustler says: Aug 5, 2009 8:49 PM

    The Summer before the Giants won the oooper bowl I told a friend that I would take Eli over Payton. I watched Eli in college on a team that was always overmatched playing in the SEC. He often put his whole team on his back to stay competative. He did that as a proto-typical quarteback, not as a runner/athlete. That game winning throw in the ooper bowl is his norm. That is what makes Eli special. Clutch.

  16. jurnee16 says: Aug 5, 2009 8:53 PM

    Has anyone mentioned he lacks the ability to throw the ball in the wind?

  17. CooperManning says: Aug 5, 2009 8:53 PM

    Eli Manning: Proof that you don’t need a great quarterback to win a Super Bowl.

  18. CJCrazyLegs28 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:04 PM

    Also give me Chad Pennington, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Kurt Warner, and Matt Hasselbeck over Eli (maybe a few more). He wouldn’t have gotten half of that payday if his defense didn’t win him a Super Bowl.

  19. smiley says: Aug 5, 2009 9:06 PM

    Eli beat Ton Brady…I’m still laughin at that one. Based on most of your arguments Dan Marino is behind Eli Mannig…riiiiight.

  20. Paul_R. says: Aug 5, 2009 9:09 PM

    Mike, please don’t sugarcoat it. It wasn’t just 4 interceptions by the Vikings. Three were returned for touchdowns!
    And, what did Eli accomplish after Burress was no longer available? A horrible finish to the regular season and a “one and done” in the playoffs. Great quarterbacks make plays with what they have and I guarantee you that Brady, Peyton, or Brees could have manufactured something with what was remaining on the roster.

  21. Bob S. says: Aug 5, 2009 9:09 PM

    beats having hasselback, palmer, dave brown – he may be “useless to some experts” but eli has taken giants to 4 playoffs in a row – something NO giant qb ever did before in the long history of the new york football giants.
    AND of these: “Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Donovan McNabb.[UPDATE: And Drew Brees.]”

    not a single one was a super bowl MVP 3 OF 4 never won a super bowl, 2 of 4 never even played in one.
    re: mcnabb- eli’s giants uniform cleaning bill is much lower too as he never throws up all over himself.

  22. Citizen Strange says: Aug 5, 2009 9:13 PM

    Did the Giants overpay? Probably. But Eli is the face of their franchise, he wants to be there, he doesn’t cause ANY trouble off the field and he doesn’t watch the games from the sidelines in his pajamas (means he is not injury prone).
    The Giants had to do this. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush any day.

  23. houskat says: Aug 5, 2009 9:15 PM

    Hey,I agree most footbal player’s are overpaid but that’s the way it is.
    I was surprised he was’nt payed over 100 million.He’s a good fit in N.Y.,stays his ass out of trouble,works hard for his team.
    More power to him and anyone else that can get them kind of bucks.

  24. Tyler Durden says: Aug 5, 2009 9:17 PM

    Winning a Super Bowl hardly qualifies you as a good Quarter Back…Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson both won a Super Bowl. It’s called AMAZING defense.
    You also forgot Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Roger, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler and Trent Edwards over Eli Manning…I’d take Ben Rothlisberger off though. His passes are always high, low, or outside even though he has 5+ seconds to throw the ball. See the Chargers playoff game from last season.

  25. Tyler Durden says: Aug 5, 2009 9:19 PM

    BTW, $15,000,000 a year would provide a job for 600 people to make $25,000 a year. People are getting laid off left and right in this country and these guys are making millions of dollars. There is something wrong with this picture.

  26. craiger902 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:21 PM

    People are going on that Eli should be in elite company because he won a Superbowl. By that logic, should Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler be in elite company since they won a Superbowl as well? Mediocre QB’s win the Superbowl from time to time. That shouldn’t automatically make them an elite QB. Eli Manning has been over rated since day 1 and his stats show the real picture.
    And to the person who compared him to Brady, give me a break. While Brady has had Randy Moss for a full season, before that, his receivers were never elite status. Yet he has won a lot more and put up much better numbers than Eli ever did. I think even Giants fans will be regretting this money after this season is done and Eli is putting up more mediocre numbers.

  27. rocman101 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:24 PM

    All of you who have commented saying that Eli deserves this raise are idiots. Trent Dilfer won a superbowl too. Does that mean he should be given a 97.5 million dollar contract? No, the playoff run and subsequent superbowl of the Giants was based purely on thier running game and defenses, all Eli had to do was not throw an interception on every attempt. The D-Line is the reason that the Giants are a perrenial playoff team. Any QB could be on that team and they still would have accomplished the same things. If the Giants had a great quarterback, they would have a dynasty.
    ALSO- Eli should never have won that superbowl MVP. It should have been co MVP’s of Osi and Justin Tuck. The D-Line had Tom Brady on his ass the whole game, and in turn shut down the league’s best offense that year.

  28. Alpheratz says: Aug 5, 2009 9:25 PM

    I like Eli, but that Super Bowl play should have not been a completion in so many ways.
    That day, it was.
    Good for him to parlay it into a monster contract, not sure I would break the bank if I were G.M.

  29. nittanylion0 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:28 PM

    i love the people who fault the Giants for not waiting until the season is over to float a new deal. yeah, that makes plenty of sense… make Eli prove himself after all he’s done in 5 years is engineered 17 late game-winning drives, taken your team to the playoffs every year he’s been the full-time starter, and won Super Bowl MVP by throwing 2 TDs in the 4th Q.
    i would note that the Giants certainly did not make the playoffs on the strength of their defense prior to Spags coming on the scene. that would be the first two of those Eli playoff appearances, for those keeping score. the defense definitely put them over the hump, and they get well compensated for it.

  30. CheddarBob says: Aug 5, 2009 9:32 PM

    So you’re going to equally weight what Eli did in 2004 through 2006 to the QB we have seen him recently.
    Because that’s what you’re doing when you blindly give the career QB rating for Eli. Which makes as much sense as valuing PFT based on the average number of hits it’s gotten over the life of the site’s existence, rather than highlighting the fact that the website has grown so much as it needed to find a major corporate partner due to its success.
    PFT looked like it was doomed for failure when it reported that Terry Bradshaw had died, just like Eli looked like he was awful after the Vikings game. But since then PFT has proven to be one of the best football websites out there, just like Eli has proven to be one of the best QBs in the game.
    I would have thought you would have put more thought into a post like this Mr. Florio, but it appears that instead of a well researched and thoughtful post, you’ve written a post that would be fitting of any tabloid trash paper.

  31. DaGMen07 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:39 PM

    @CJCrazyLegs
    So Michael Strahan lead the Giants to a game winning td down by 4 with under 4 minutes left. Or was that Tuck. No, no it was Osi, right? The d played a big part in that game, like most winning teams d’s do in the superbowl. But Eli WON that game for the Giants. Maybe you should watch the game again retard.

  32. Bob S. says: Aug 5, 2009 9:41 PM

    Tyler Durden says:
    Winning a Super Bowl hardly qualifies you as a good Quarter Back…Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson both won a Super Bowl. It’s called AMAZING defense.
    You also forgot Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Roger, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler and Trent Edwards

    not one of them ever led their team to the playoffs FOUR YEARS IN A ROW LIKE ELI DID. and giants in several of those tim lewis years had no defense.

  33. Yamchargers says: Aug 5, 2009 9:43 PM

    To all the brainiacs that think that Eli is better than so and so because he won a SB.
    Was Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino?
    Just a really simple question to point out the stupidity in your simple, flawed logic.
    Football is the ultimate team sport.

  34. DaGMen07 says: Aug 5, 2009 9:44 PM

    @PaulR
    “And, what did Eli accomplish after Burress was no longer available? A horrible finish to the regular season and a “one and done” in the playoffs”
    Are you serious? Losing Burress disrupted their entire offense. Take out the best wr on any team and see how their offense runs. Eli’s not the reason they lost to Philly this season. It was bc the d-line was hurt and tired and couldnt apply any pressure to the qb. Give any qb all the time in the world and they will pick apart your D. (Except for Tarvaris Jackson) Any Giants fan could see that. Your comment was by far the stupidest comment I have read on this site. Where do you morons come from?

  35. Tyler Durden says: Aug 5, 2009 9:53 PM

    @ DagMen07
    I despise the Eagles but you have to give credit where credit is due: Donovan McNabb took the Eagles to the Super Bowl AFTER T.O. broke his leg on a Roy Williams’ horse collar tackle.
    Of Course T.O. came back for the Super Bowl and they lost, but the point is is that McNabb still brought their team to the SB even though he lost his #1 receiver..

  36. Beezer says: Aug 5, 2009 9:56 PM

    Florio you have been bashing Eli since draft day. How can you say Rivers is a better QB than Eli? He plays in a division with two of the worst teams in the NFL and has never made it to the superbowl. He had the luxury of being brought along slowly and onto a very talented team. Eli was thrown in during his rookie year on a rebuilding team with limited talent and arguably the worst offensive line in the NFL. He has lead the Giants to the playoffs in all 4 of his full seasons as starter and was superbowl MVP.
    While his QB rating is not amongst the best in the NFL only Brady and Roethlisberger are as clutch as him.
    When Tiki retired they said Eli can’t win without him. Then the Giants couldn’t win when Strahan retired and Osi was injured. Now Eli can’t win because Plax is gone. What will be the reason next year?
    Lastly i would expect people to have faith in Jerry Reese because his track record as GM speaks for itself.

  37. Millertime says: Aug 5, 2009 9:57 PM

    You can’t judge a qb entirely on stats Florio, we’ve been over this. Eli is a franchise QB with a superbowl ring after taking his team to the playoffs 4 years in a row (only peyton has done the same). I believe as I’m sure jerry reese believes that mannings best years are ahead of him. When Rivers gets paid will he be overpaid? It’s not that Eli is being grossly overpaid, it’s just the natural progression of the market. The next guys contract is bigger than the one that came before it. Philip rivers is not better than Eli. Rivers plays in the PAC 10 (I meant NFC west). Put rivers in the NFC east in a much more competitive media market and his numbers are not the same. And don’t get me started on mcnabb. With the game on the line in the fourth quarter, the guy gets tired and pukes all over himself!!! Does that show up in his qb rating? Half of the players I’m swing mentioned that are supposedly better than Eli have not even won a playoff game!

  38. Beezer says: Aug 5, 2009 10:00 PM

    To all you geniuses who compare Trent Dilfer to Eli, did Dilfer win superbowl MVP? Did he lead a historic last minute comeback against a team that people were calling the best of all time?
    Also great question for everyone here. How come no one ever mentions that the chargers allowed Drew Brees to walk without receiving ANY compensation because of Rivers? Imagine the Chargers with Brees.

  39. Sarah3gl says: Aug 5, 2009 10:06 PM

    Zaggs and CitizenStrange – well said. Mike, go back and read their posts.

  40. Paul_R. says: Aug 5, 2009 10:09 PM

    DaGMen07 says:
    “Losing Burress disrupted their entire offense. Take out the best wr on any team and see how their offense runs.”
    ====================================
    I also said, “Great quarterbacks make plays with what they have and I guarantee you that Brady, Peyton, or Brees could have manufactured something with what was remaining on the roster.”
    Do you remember the names of the great wide receivers that Brady threw to during their run of Super Bowl wins? I remember one guy, Deion Branch, who was a Super Bowl MVP. Then he skipped town for more money and, pretty much, nobody’s heard a thing from him since. Brady made the plays with less-than-average wide receivers. Eli couldn’t and didn’t.
    But, it’s a new season for the Giants and Eli. Is everyone healthy and ready to go? Is Eli going to prove us “doubters” wrong this year? Or, like you, are Giants fans going to give us “doubters” excuses (like, “Eli’s not the reason they lost to Philly this season. It was bc the d-line was hurt and tired and couldnt apply any pressure to the qb.”)?
    Looking at the games following Burress’ little gun accident, here’s the scores:
    20-14 Eagles win
    20-8 Cowboys win
    34-28 Giants over Panthers
    20-19 Vikings win
    23-11 Eagles win playoff game
    So, the powerful Giants scored 14, 8, 34, 19, and 11 points (in the playoff game against the Eagles). One win in those five games. Where was the offense that couldn’t score even 20 points in four of those five games? By the way, if the Giants score only 11 points in the playoff game, is the defense really the problem? Looks like your excuse needs to be retooled.

  41. LewD says: Aug 5, 2009 10:09 PM

    Facts Domino has it in a nutshell … along with a few others ….
    don’t underestimate how difficult it is to be a successful QB in NY … so many promising kids have fallen flat on their faces under performing …. not many have been able to succeed for a long period of time …
    Eli may not be the best … or as good as his brother … but I would be curious to see how many of the elite would have had the same career if drafted by the Jets or Giants …. personally, I don’t think Peyton would have reached the level he has …

  42. max says: Aug 5, 2009 10:10 PM

    “And the Jets have a rookie quarterback who could soon capture the imagination of New Yorkers both with high-end play…”
    I seem to remember Mr. Sanchez playing like absolute garbage against a pedestrian Oregon State last year. How is Sanchez going to win in Foxboro when he couldn’t get a Pac-10 road win when his team was favored by 25 points?
    Sanchez reeks of Alex Smith pt. 2.
    On the other hand, Manning has done an excellent job in the largest sports market, showing resolve after getting blasted by Shockey and Tiki. He’s also been incredibly durable and has led his team to the playoffs for four straight years and counting.
    The absense of Burress raises a lot of questions, but I wonder if Big Ben leads his team back without the incredible catch by Santonio. Or if he even has to if Kurt doesn’t have Fitzgerald going nuts.

  43. southernboi727 says: Aug 5, 2009 10:10 PM

    Its all Grudens’ fault. The first game the Giants played on their run to the Super Bowl was versus the Bucs at RayJay. The first quarter was all the Bucs cause they running the ball all over the Giants defense. Then in the second quarter Gruden wanted to show how smart he was and started getting too cute with the offense and started getting 3 and outs instead of sustaing drives. I remember goin to smoke a cig right after the 1st quarter ended andd talkin mad shit to all the Giants fans there. Its was all downhill from there and the rest is history. 1st playoff game I ever went to and broke bread for a club seat(that right I went by myself) and they lose. Man, I was pissed. Pissed more that the Bucs lost than paying for the club seat. The ticket was only $250. GO BUCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    P.S. Dumbest decison by the Giants. Eli is now wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overpaid for his talents. Got give him mad props for leading his team to the win in the biggest choke job ever by the Patriots*. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson had the game in the bag by the time the game was over . The Giants defense did its job and Eli really stepped up and did his job for that game. Still wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overpaid.
    *=cheaters

  44. CheddarBob says: Aug 5, 2009 10:10 PM

    @YamChargers
    Is Eli better than so and so QB because he has a SB ring. No, he is not better than so and so because he has a SB ring.
    But he is better than so and so because of how he performed over the course of the playoffs that season and how well he performed in the Super Bowl. You could have put a league average QB in place of Trent Dilfer and the Raven’s defense was so dominant in the playoffs.
    Would a league average QB have performed as well in GB as Eli did? Putting his team in position to win three separate times in some of the harshest conditions any playoff game has taken place in over the last decade.
    How many other QBs have won three straight road games against top 10 defenses in the playoffs?
    How many other QBs have thrown two TDs in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl?
    How many other QBs have had TD to INT ratios of 6-1 and won the Super Bowl?
    So in isolation, he isn’t better than so and so QB because he won a Super Bowl, but when you paint the full picture, it’s amazing how much brighter Eli and his performance shine.

  45. CRIMETIME says: Aug 5, 2009 10:18 PM

    I laugh at all the Giant fans standing up for Eli. If I remember correctly, before you guys won a superbowl, everyone in NY was ready to put Eli’s head on a stick. Face it Giant fans, Eli is not a good QB. For they guy that said Rivers shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence as Eli, ur absolutely right. River’s has way more heart than Eli, and he’s a far better QB than Eli. If Rivers was a Giant, you would be celebrating multiple superbowls.
    Let me remind you Giant fans, Eli might of made the throw to Tyree, but it was the defense that kept the Patriots from unloading on you Giants. If it wasn’t for the Giant’s “D”, Patriots would of had an easy “W”. I can’t even believe Eli was the MVP, it should of been Strahan.
    For da dude that tried to defend Eli due to the loss of Burress. Look at Peyton, he lost Harrison and still put up great numbers with a rookie in Gonzalez. Manning is not worth the money they spent on him, and they will regret it.
    The major reason why the Giant’s were able to make it to the post season 4 str8 years, was because of the defense and running game. Eli is too soft to play in the NFL.

  46. thetruthhurts says: Aug 5, 2009 10:24 PM

    Zaggs–
    “If it had been all up to Big Ben Pittsburg would have lost both superbowls.”
    Wow. Your superior intelligence is evident both in your football knowledge and your grammar.
    Obviously the QB engineering an 88-yard drive (don’t forget the phantom holding call on Kemo) with 2:24 left, down by 3 and getting the TD had nothing to do with the Steelers getting the Super Bowl win.
    Nothing at all.
    You may want to consult a proctologist. A craniorectalectomy is clearly indicated here.

  47. nflqb says: Aug 5, 2009 10:35 PM

    To even mention a qb thats not even in phil simms top 10 qbs in the nfl, in the same sentence as hall of famers , tom brandy , ben roethlisberger and payton manning is just palin stupid.
    In yr 5 of the failed eli manning experiment , the guy looked like the eli we all know and love in the wild card game against philly last yr, doing his usual pathetic non competitive performance.
    hes been near journymen calibre for his entire career and had a decent(not great) 4 game playoff stretch after playing pathetic the entire season.

  48. BradyQuinnsCodPiece says: Aug 5, 2009 10:38 PM

    other QBs that are better than Eli….
    Carson Palmer
    Aaron Rodgers
    Jay Cutler
    Matt Ryan
    Kurt Warner
    Tony Romo

  49. brewcrewe says: Aug 5, 2009 10:40 PM

    I am tired of the argument, Eli has a SuperBowl ring. To me, that puts him in the same class as Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. The “RING” argument creates this assumption in QB rankings:
    Dan Marino sucks compared to the likes of Eli, Brad Johnson, and Trent Dilfer.
    My list of the best QBs in the league:
    1.Peyton Manning
    2.Tom Brady
    3. Drew Brees
    4. Phillip Rivers
    5. Ben Roethlisberger
    5. Carson Palmer
    6. Tony Romo
    7.Donovan McNabb
    8.Kurt Warner
    9.Jay Cutler
    10.Aaron Rodgers
    After looking at it…Eli ranks around 13, 14 or so…below Hasselback and Pennington, but ahead of Matt Ryan, Trent Edwards and David Garrard. Good enough to start most places, but average enough to always have to look over his shoulder. (Unless David Carr is your backup)
    I challenge anyone to prove Eli is better than any QB in my top 10, with something other than the Ring argument or by using the stupid “clutch” statement. Prove it with stats….if you say he is clutch, prove it with his QB rating in big games versus the other guys. I have not checked it out, but I bet even Tony Romo, who Giant fans love to bash, has a better November, December and January rating than Eli.

  50. meezle says: Aug 5, 2009 10:47 PM

    Why all the hate on McNabb? 5 nfc championships? Yeah he never won the big 1 but he’s had continued success, with less pieces than Eli. Eli is the second worse qb to win a sb EVER. A qbs success isn’t built completely on sb wins, which eli will never have another.
    Btw, after mcnabb, ”blew chunky soup” he threw a td.
    The list of qbs that a better than eli are
    Mcnabb
    Brady
    Peyton
    Brees
    Rivers
    Cutler
    Jason campbell – you will all see
    Rodgers
    Warner
    Hasselback
    Big ben
    Romo
    He will be exposed this season. Giants fans, you were calling for his head that sb season now he is all of a sudden a qb god? If bum a$$, slow a$$, cheating a$$, rodney harrison could defend a retarded lucky pass, eli loses, and never sees the sb again.
    In philly we call him chuck and duck, he gets pressure and what does he do? Chucks and ducks, usually resulting in an int.

  51. meezle says: Aug 5, 2009 10:53 PM

    Cheddar bob,
    About ur gb comment regarding Eli
    Michael Vick also won in GB, first time ever so that completely wipes out that criteria,
    Stop fishing, he is garbage and one rainmanesc season doesn’t make him good.

  52. meezle says: Aug 5, 2009 11:00 PM

    Millertime your wrong, mcnabb took his team to the playoffs 4 times in a row, nfc championship at that.
    5 consecutive playoff appearences
    Eli is garbage, face it

  53. ACDC84 says: Aug 5, 2009 11:04 PM

    Who in their right mind would take Eli Manning over Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan, either for this year or for the future?!?!

  54. ras6111 says: Aug 5, 2009 11:08 PM

    It doesn’t count when you loose in the NFC championship game so thats 1 NFC championship so Eli beats him there or at least ties him but wins the tie breaker by showing up to the game after the NFC championship

  55. MarkP88 says: Aug 5, 2009 11:08 PM

    I’m a Cowboys fan, and I think Eli’s a great player. He deserves the money — beyond being an excellent player, he’s pure class, whether things are going well or not.
    This is the way these contracts go. It shouldn’t be any big surprise that he got so much. Soon enough, someone else will become the highest paid player in the league.
    Mark P.

  56. realityonetwo says: Aug 5, 2009 11:09 PM

    The Giants would have won at least three recent SBs if they had Peyton instead of Eli.

  57. Beezer says: Aug 5, 2009 11:14 PM

    Meezle you are no longer allowed to post because you put Jason Campbell ahead of Eli. Jason Campbell? hahahahahahahahaha and Romo who fumbles at least once every game and falls apart at the first sign of adversity. How many times has Cutler been to the playoffs? Hasselbeck was a very solid quarterback but he is on the downside of his career and played with one of the best pass blocking offensive lines in the NFL.
    Top QB’s
    Brady
    Peyton
    Brees
    Roethlisberger
    Eli
    Rivers
    Warner
    Cutler
    Hahaha Campbell that was a good one.

  58. max says: Aug 5, 2009 11:16 PM

    Jason Campbell. You will all see him benched for Mike Vick in week 6
    Fixed.

  59. Crabcake says: Aug 5, 2009 11:16 PM

    Eli sucks. He is not a good QB.

  60. CheddarBob says: Aug 5, 2009 11:22 PM

    @ brewcrewe
    You do realize that QB rating is a flawed and antiquated stat that only a simpleton would use to judge QB’s, right?
    If you think the goal of a football game is to have the highest QB rating, I hope you pick up a copy of Madden 10 and win lot’s of MVP trophies. I prefer to judge players by more than just a flawed metric, but I hope you didn’t waste too much time with your uninformed post.

  61. meezle says: Aug 5, 2009 11:50 PM

    You guys will be eating your words about jason campbell. He is one of a few players that’s actually a class act. Its not his fault his starting wide recievers are a combined height of 6’1”. His 3rd wideout was a guy the eagles rejected, we all know how bad they pick recievers and he was cut from the eagles. Portis is and always has been a fraud, I can’t wait until the redskins are in the playoffs and eli is sitting at home watching them. And I HATE the skins. And for whatever idiot said eli showed up the week after the nfc championship, so has mcnabb yeah he did lose, but how many times has eli showed up after playing the eagles in the playoffs? Zero… responding to some of you is lowering my football iq

  62. CooperManning says: Aug 5, 2009 11:54 PM

    How is QB rating “flawed” and “antiquated”? Obviously the goal for a quarterback isn’t to simply have the highest QB rating. The goal for a quarterback is to complete passes, move the ball, get to the endzone and not turn the ball over. If you do those things well, it translates into a good QB rating. And it also usually translates into wins.

  63. VoxVeritas says: Aug 5, 2009 11:59 PM

    “If you think the goal of a football game is to have the highest QB rating”
    Right. The goal of a football game is to win.
    Tony Romo – .659 winning percentage as a starter
    E. Manning – .590 winning percentage as a starter
    Includes playoff games. Oh, and Romo’s career passer rating is only o.1 of a point below Manning’s… Peyton Manning’s. It’s 18.6 points above Eli’s.
    Who was the #1 overall pick and who was the undrafted free agent?

  64. CooperManning says: Aug 6, 2009 12:00 AM

    I haven’t seen this much money thrown at an average player since the Yankees re-signed Derek Jeter.

  65. Mute617 says: Aug 6, 2009 12:00 AM

    Eli Manning is a joke and now so are the NY Giants. The defense gets them the Super Bowl, aside from a lucky catch and Mr. I don’t wanna be a Charger waa waa waa gets a huge contract? For what? An amazing career? What a joke. Grossman got booed out of Chicago for putting up some of the numbers Eli has put up (well, not the 0.0 qb rating, but still similar numbers). If he wasn’t Peyton’s brother, and wasn’t in NY, Eli would not be praised like he is.

  66. 305phinphan says: Aug 6, 2009 12:42 AM

    I just can’t believe people are that ignorant. Eli is nothing special! I would take Rivers on my team anyday over Eli. Who cares that Eli threw a ball up in the air and David Tyree made and outstanding catch (wasen’t an outstanding throw). If you put Rivers on the Giants the G-Men would be 100 times better on offense. I know it’s hard to look at reality when you are a fan but ELI MANNING is a JOKE!

  67. Equalizer1 says: Aug 6, 2009 12:42 AM

    The Giants believe they can win with Eli. So why not lock up the center piece and focus on winning with him instead of trying to get him on the “cheap?” Especially when you might want to make some other acquisition, or give someone else a big contract as next year’s story? With Eli out of the way, they know they don’t have to wait to work with Eli to make deals next year or be competitive with whomever makes the big splash next offseason with their deal.
    Eli is young, already has a Superbowl ring that he helped them get faster than Peyton won his, and has a lot of years left. Whatever his flaws, Eli + Superbowl is not a bust by any stretch of the imagination.
    The receiver talent will ebb and flow, but with a solid defense, a solid offensive line, and a solid running game, Eli will win a lot of games with his so-called mediocre passer rating.
    Continuity counts for alot in this league, particularly at quarterback. With the same offensive system, a solid core of playmakers, the assurance, from the Superbowl victory that it can happen in the NFL you tweak, you upgrade at the peripheral positions, you get incrementally better, until you think the talent pool has run out of juice. Then you rebuild.
    This talent pool hasn’t run it’s course. Not by a long shot. With Eli in place and locked up, you are always at most a year or two away from seriously contending for the big dance depending upon what tweaks need to be made and what breaks your way in any given year. (I believe that the Giants faced the one team that they couldn’t beat in the NFC in the playoffs last year in Philadelphia, and could have handled the Cardinals had they gotten to the championship. So it goes.)
    And at least once, over the life of his contract, Eli will lead them back to the big dance, and he will give them a great shot to win it.
    So right now you keep Eli and build a formula that wins with him. The Ravens beat the Giants silly with Trent Dilfer, even though the Giants had a better QB in Kerry Collins because that year, the Ravens formula clicked and nobody overcame it. (And didn’t the “better” QB throw a bunch of INTs in that game?)
    The alternative, to wait and sign him next year, or to figure you want to dump him for a lottery ticket at the next shot at a QB God doesn’t make much sense if you believe that you can win with him.
    And that’s what the Giants believe. And so do I.

  68. NJSkinsFan says: Aug 6, 2009 12:43 AM

    Simple Comparison: Which QB is better?
    QB1: 5 Seasons (4 as starter)–14,623 yds, 98 tds, 74 ints, qb rating of 76.1, 39 fumbles (14 lost), 55.9% completions
    QB 2: 5 Seasons (3 as starter)–10,697 yds, 78 tds, 36 ints, qb rating of 92.9, 30 fumbles (12 lost), 62.3% completions
    For all you beloved Eli Manning fans out there, he is QB1.
    QB2? The much hated (at least on this board) Philip Rivers.
    Remember Giants fans: On that Superbowl Run, the Giants arguably had the best Offensive Line in football, a top 5 running game, the top Defensive Line in football, and Eli’s 6’5″ safety net, Plaxico Burress. Without Plax and Toomer, what will become of Eli? No one knows for sure, not even the smartest of G-Men fans. Eli had (by my count, could be wrong) 6 games with no Burress. Results? 2-4, one game over 200 yds passing, 3 tds (never more then one in a game), 5 ints, and 0-1 in the playoffs (and 1-5 when the opposition scored 20+).
    Is that worth $97.5 million? Only time will tell.

  69. SixBurghDude says: Aug 6, 2009 12:46 AM

    Hilarious! Posting comments that Ben Roethlisberger had nothing to do with the Steelers winning either Super Bowl, let alone BOTH, just exposes you as an ignorant FOOL! Not only did Ben engineer the game winning drive to win SBXLIII, but was the rightful MVP as well, if his surname were Manning or Brady, he assuredly would have been!
    As for SBXL, you obviously didn’t watch the 3 Steeler playoff games on the road to SBXL, if not for Ben, the Steelers would not have become the 1st Super Bowl Champion in NFL history to win 3 playoff games on the road!!!

  70. Julius Brown says: Aug 6, 2009 12:57 AM

    Florio, not only did you forget Drew Brees you forgot Warner. Run the stats anyway you want to and Warner is obviously better at the position than Eli. Just because Warner won’t be playing in a couple of years doesn’t change how things are now.
    Many have said that Ben Roethlisberger is a better qb than Eli Manning but they are about equal statistically and in my book. Big Ben has one more Super Bowl, but that could change if the Giants find two great wr under some rock in the forest.

  71. troll_aikman8 says: Aug 6, 2009 1:20 AM

    Hopefully with his newfound cash he’ll turn down advertisements. His face makes me want to punch a baby.

  72. bednarik60 says: Aug 6, 2009 1:38 AM

    I agree with it all except for the Sanchez bit.

  73. gnop05 says: Aug 6, 2009 2:08 AM

    •••••••••••GEEZ•••••••••••
    Seriously people. A TEEAAMM wins games, not a player. Sure, a quarterback plays a large role in the success of a ball club, however, I think teams draft o-linemen, rb’s, wr’s, fb’s and te’s for a reason…
    Just because a player wins in the big game or loses in the big game; he didn’t do it himself. That said, $16mil/year is absolutely ridiculous. Actually will be funny to see the turmoil that DA-G-MEN have put themselves in for the next 6 years. Eli is an AVERAGE quarterback, in my opinion. I’ve seen him play enough to say that he, too crumbles under pressure.. and the most humorous thing is – HE CRIES AND YELLS AT A PLAYER IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG (Giants/Eagles, playoffs). Eli depended on Burress WAYYYYY too much while tossing up a duck and having the 9 foot Plax grab it out of the air.
    Here’s the truth with a grain of salt:
    McNabb=Will (HELP) win the big game before retirement.
    Brady = Has won big; aided with defensive knowledge, aka, cheating.
    P. Manning = Great talent around him; has been VERY inconsistent as he grows older.
    E. Manning = Please catch it Plaxx……eh…… someone.
    Romo = 44-6 + shower
    Big Ben = Solid QB. Aided with a great D thus far in his career.
    Drew Brees = Dink and dunk queen.
    Rivers = Haven’t seen him play enough to really say anything. The times I have seen him play; he was a bit whiny.
    Warner = having hip problems, meaning, yo Kurt, retire.
    Campbell = Has potential, just doesn’t know the game well enough, IMO. Thus far, VERY inconsistent.
    Like it or not, I’m right on these guys.

  74. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 2:23 AM

    Anyone with a shred of football intelligence knows that the only two QB stats that mean anything are Yards Per Attempt (YPA) and Interception Percentage (IP).
    Eli’s career YPA is a pathetic 6.4, coming in at a shocking 177th of the 209 QBs that have passed for more than 6 YPA.
    Of the active QBs on this list, only Josh McCown is worse.
    As for career IP, Eli comes in 38th at 3.24. Not terrible on the surface, but when you look closer it gets a lot worse.
    No QB who played most of their career before 1978 has a prayer of being anywhere close to the top because of the liberalization of receiver contact rules that occurred that year. So that eliminates quite a few contenders right off the bat.
    Then a look at the active list puts him 16th, below such luminaries as Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins and squarely in the middle of the pack.
    To summarize: Eli can’t get the ball downfield and is only mediocre at protecting it.
    This is worth $97 million? I wouldn’t pay 97 bucks for this stiff.

  75. descendency says: Aug 6, 2009 4:09 AM

    Expect Joe Flacco to be better than Eli soon too.

  76. descendency says: Aug 6, 2009 4:13 AM

    @Tyler Durden
    Would you like to lay off all of the people who serve beer, food, make commercials, and do tons of other stuff that only gets done because football exists?
    These contracts aren’t paid out because the NFL is a charity. It’s a business and like all good free market (well, semi-free…) businesses, it can pay people less than it takes in but has to pay them enough to keep them happy. Call me when the NFL is in the red.

  77. Tyler says: Aug 6, 2009 5:31 AM

    Mentioning Sanchez, a QB with 16 college starts and Ryan in this article is just typical Florio, who is not just a Colts hater but Manning hater too.
    And Eli is a guy, who will never stop giving maximum effort, even when having a new contract. Eli will never be as good as Peyton, but still, if we look at Peyton, he improved a lot in his 6th year. Eli’s 6th is coming next… With the low amount of guaranteed money, the Giants could cut Eli in 2-5 years, if he isn’t good enough and save the money.
    If we do too the usual PFT BS speculation, we can come to the conclusion, that Florio’s problem is, that TomTom will not agree to give another discount, if he would get less, than guys like Eli, Big Ben, soon Rivers.

  78. dracula58 says: Aug 6, 2009 5:45 AM

    It’s so amusing to read Joe Fan’s QB ratings. Fantasy and stat nerd can break down the numbers with mind numbing accuracy but the only stat that matters in today’s NFL is wins. I’ll repeat that again. The only stat that matters in today’s NFL is wins. If I’m not mistaken Big Ben’s winning percentage trails only Tom Brady. The Rooney’s like what Big Ben brings to the football field and their track record for evaluating talent is a good as yours. For you stat nerds and fantasy geeks his numbers are significantly better in the 4th qtr when games are on the line than in the 1st. Have your fun fantasy guy. My fantasies don’t include football players but that’s another issue. Stats don’t involve the “it” factor. A few QBs have it, most do not. Making the play in the clutch and finding a way to win. You can talk all you want about this defense or that defense but with the game on the line Big Ben earns his pay and puts up points. Somewhere in your endless stack of stats you can find that’s a fact and not an opinion.

  79. Alpheratz says: Aug 6, 2009 6:40 AM

    Get real. No current QB without a super bowl win is “better” than Eli.
    Plain and simple.

  80. DirtMcGirt24 says: Aug 6, 2009 8:40 AM

    You’d think at least one brainiac here would read the title of the article and formulate an educated response.
    Too much money? Well let’s start by being the first to mention that only 35 million is guaranteed. That’s about 5.8 per year of the extension. Not mind blowing.
    So, how do we arrive at nearly 16 as most of you have? INCENTIVES! You know, those dollars paid when one achieves certain goals, designed to promote good performance?
    So, to actually see the 9-figures in this deal, undoubtedly the player would have to perhaps win some titles and MVPs.
    Therefore, to answer the question, no, it’s not too much money (relatively, because of course millions for athletes is always “too much”)
    Other points for the brainiacs:
    1. Inflation. A phenomenon that, in simple terms, means a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. To compare this deal to Brady and Peyton is dumb, because you KNOW they’re going to get a higher average when they renew, because they’re better as well as because of inflation.
    2. QB Rating. Bradshaw, the most accomplished QB of them all, had a rating of 70.9. Kordell Stewart? 70.8. Who cares?
    3. Every team has a defense, too. So, McNabb hasn’t benefited from a Jim Johnson defense for nearly his whole career? DeMarcus Ware and the Cowboys defense have given Romo only D-II caliber help?
    Get a clue people.

  81. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 8:44 AM

    dracula58–
    We’re trying to determine contemporary individual competence at passing the football, not team success. This is best measured by comparing like-to-like performance over the length of a career.
    Single-game wins and losses often have little to do with how well the QB plays, as evidenced by Roethlisberger’s pathetic showing in Super Bowl XL.
    Also, do you think an historic defense and an excellent offensive supporting cast might have some small hand in his success? Roethlisberger on the Lions would be stinking out the joint as badly as whatever poor ba$tard they wheeled out last year.
    That being said, there’s no QB I’d take over Roethlisberger precisely because of his winning ways and the statistical superiority that makes his success possible.
    He’s 7th all time in YPA at an outstanding 7.9, 3rd among actives. If the Steelers are 3rd and long, Ben moves the chains.
    He’s not quite as good at protecting the ball and is actually next to last among actives with a 3.62 IP, but this is part of the righ-risk, high-reward game he plays.
    Your casual dismissal of easily comparable and understandable metrics, not to mention the on-field contributions of the other 52 players on the roster in favor of visceral reaction to triumphal spectacle is disturbing to this lifelong Steeler fan.

  82. richpats1 says: Aug 6, 2009 8:48 AM

    Eli’s rank in passer rating each year from 2005-2008: 23rd, 18th, 25th, 14th
    He won’t be able to live off the “Super Bowl MVP” for long….just ask Deion Branch….

  83. Philtration says: Aug 6, 2009 9:12 AM

    Rex Grossman with a Super Bowl ring

  84. glenneats says: Aug 6, 2009 9:20 AM

    Everyone loves to throw out Eli’s stats and all tht other bullshit. The game is simple fellas, its about WINNING. I do not care how many fantasy points Eli puts up on the board each and every week. He has already proven he can lead a team to the promise land unlike a lot of other quarterbacks (cough romo cough).
    Everyones perspective on players has changed because of Fantasy Football, the reality is this guy is a winner and five years from now with another ring on his finger(possibly two) everyone will start to realize.

  85. Shawn in Houston says: Aug 6, 2009 9:35 AM

    All I am hearing is …”He won a Superbowl se he is the best”. Teams win superbowls, I am sure the defense had something to do with that win.
    If this guys name wasn’t Manning or played in NY we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
    And don’t forget, Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring, was he also a great QB?

  86. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 9:41 AM

    Pretty soon he’ll be the 6th, 7th or 8th highest paid QB. enough w the dilfer comparisons. for one eli has never missed the playoffs nor a game as the giants starter, even on a run heavy team he throws 20 or more td’s a season and over 3000 yards each season since hes been a starter…has dilfer? no. People are just spouting off without even looking at the facts or his stats. He throws for over 20 td’s a season and look how many less passes he throws a season as opposed to a brees, rivers, mcnabb and co. You make it like he was awful last season coming off the superbowl, 23 td’s and 10 picks? pretty good to me. like i said he guarantees his team a playoff spot each yr, usually the division and hes a lock for 20 td’s and 3000 yards with less passes thrown a yr than most qb’s..People that dont stop talking assume theyll see his career stats at 60 td’s and 100 picks when his td’ to int ratio is still good and his winning percentage is 20 games over .500…pretty good to me

  87. D F'n says: Aug 6, 2009 9:43 AM

    I love how Giants fans only excuse for giving him that huge contract is that he won a ring. In that case, why not overpay for every single player on the team? They all have rings.
    Oh and Eli was the Super Bowl MVP? Did he really deserve it though? 3 turnovers in the game and a completion percentage just over 50%? Without that miracle catch by Tyree, things would be much different.
    We saw how mediocre he was last year when the defense and run game didn’t play as well during the Super Bowl run. The team needed him to play well and he didn’t cut it. The Eagles shut him down. We will see the true Eli Manning this season and maybe then the Giants fans will take their blinders off.

  88. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 9:45 AM

    gnop05 says:
    August 6, 2009 2:08 AM
    youre right on these guys? so pretty much everyone is horrible except mcnabb who will eventually win a superbowl?
    go back to bed

  89. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 9:49 AM

    Shawn in Houston says:
    August 6, 2009 9:35 AM
    Youre another dope making a “dilfer” comment. None of you people clearly watch football..
    Take a look at that playoff run eli had (all on the road) was incredible against TB, was excellent and clutch against Dallas, especially that 90 yard drive with 45 seconds to go in the half to tie it, outplayed his “great defense” in the NFC championship game in negative 35 weather, he was unstoppable that game and played very well in the SB. You make it like he was horrible in the SB and his defense did all the work. he led them on long drives and his lone pick came in the red zone when steve smith dropped an easy pass off his chest. People still talking garbage without having any knowledge, take a look at what he did in that playoff run and keep calling him dilfer. Not to mention, all these people talking hes guaranteed to have beat your team one time or another, considering his record as a starter speaks for itself. Eagle fans are talking the most and he is well over 500 for his career against them and his completion % is in the upper 60’s

  90. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 9:54 AM

    First you say this:
    “Just because a player wins in the big game or loses in the big game; he didn’t do it himself.”
    Then this:
    “Romo = 44-6 + shower”
    You contradict yourself in the same post.

  91. Mr Krinkle says: Aug 6, 2009 10:02 AM

    How much would Manning’s contract be if Asante Samuel would have just caught that gift thrown to him by Manning at the beginning of that drive? Go back and watch the tape of that game, Manning was horrible on the final drive, 3 passes should have been intercepted.
    The main reason Eli got this money is because the Giants refuse to admit he is average and they made a big mistake on that draft day.

  92. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:02 AM

    i wont even touch on the ignorant grossman comments, but everyone is right, he is exactly like dilfer..through their first 4 full seasons as starters, dilfer threw for 10,800 yards with 58 td’s and 63 picks where eli has thrown for close to 14,000 yards and 92 td’s with 64 picks..I can see the comparison, dwarfs him in yards and only a few seasons worth of td’s more..keep reaching fans who know zilch…his 92 since a starter puts him in the top 5

  93. CheddarBob says: Aug 6, 2009 10:06 AM

    @ D F’n
    The Giants had 1 turnover in the game, and that was a pass that Steve Smith bobbled. How exactly did Eli have three turnovers, if the whole team only had one? Did you watch the game?
    Why does everyone equally weight what Eli did in 2004 and 2005 (when Rivers wasn’t even good enough to play) and when Ben had barely 500 attempts in both seasons to the players each are today?
    There’s a reason why teams like the Giants win Super Bowls. They’re not penny wise and dollar foolish like some teams that negotiate to the very last cent for every player (like the Chargers did in the early part of the century, which caused delays for everyone getting into camp). Is Eli worth as much as he’s getting, no. But what alternative do they have? Pay him $26M the next two years, then risk salaries inflating even more and having to give him $50M guaranteed when Bradford signs a deal with $45M guaranteed after he’s drafted by the Broncos first overall next year?

  94. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 10:13 AM

    As I sit and think, further elaboration may be in order.
    With Eli next to last among actives in YPA and Roethlisberger next to last among actives in IP, the evidence I’ve provided proving Roethlisberger’s superiority seems to be contradictory.
    So we’ll delve further.
    The following figures are derived from a 400-attempt season, a likely result for the run-first offenses Eli and Roethlisberger are part of:
    Eli @ 3.24 IP=13 interceptions
    Ben @ 3.62 IP=14.5 interceptions
    This is a difference in Eli’s favor of 11.6%.
    Eli @ 6.4 YPA=2560 yards passing
    Ben @ 7.9 YPA=3160 yards passing
    This is a difference in Ben’s favor of 28%.
    There is simply no way 1.5 INTs lost are in any way comparable to 600 yards gained.
    And, yeah, I’m a scientist with three bachelor’s degrees and a doctorate in medicine.
    So I think in terms of comparable numerical and statistical superiority in the face of ephemeral ideas like “clutch” and “heart.”
    Clutches exist to allow the engine to clear the current planetary gear away from the universal gear to be replaced with a different planetary gear based on the RPM or travel direction of the engine.
    Hearts exist to pump oxygenated blood from the lungs to be metabolized with glucose into the cellular fuel adenosine triphosphate via the Krebs cycle and deoxygenated blood to the lungs for reoxygenation through alveolar perfusion.
    Proud to be a Stat Geek.

  95. nasheagles says: Aug 6, 2009 10:23 AM

    Thanks gmen– as an Eagle Fan.. I’m happy to know the ducks will be flying for years to come..

  96. nasheagles says: Aug 6, 2009 10:24 AM

    Heyt Eli — Jessica’s aavailable

  97. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:24 AM

    Mr Krinkle says:
    August 6, 2009 10:02 AM
    yeah the giants made a horrid pick on draft day, a sb title in his 3rd year and 4 playoff appearances in 4 years..What a horrible choice. I know every yr it stinks being a giant fan when your team is pretty much a lock to make the playoffs each yr. Pretty good draft pick to me actually..
    whos fooling who about big ben, i think hes a good qb too, but lets get off him a lil bit. If brady wasnt hurt last yr the pats would have destroyed them and everyone keeps talking defense. If my memory serves me correct, harrisons int TD seemed to be the difference in that game.
    Mr krinkle, you know nada, eli had 3 picks? watch the tape? first off that would have been a tough play by samuel, it was high, he was tight roping the line etc..eli threw ONE pick and that was off the hands of smith, which he should have caught at the 5..so he had 3 picks? and if corey webster didnt deflect those 2 passes to moss at the end, the pats would have won, and if my grandmother had balls, she would have been my grandfather. that is the worst argument, eli had 3 picks, funny bc in reality he had one, and it wasnt even his fault. keep talking about the D in that playoff run, if youre so good with ‘tapes” watch all 4 playoff games and youll see how lights out manning was.

  98. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:31 AM

    not to mention, we all cant face such stiff competition year in and out as Big Ben and Rivers face. I mean denvers D twice a yr and the raiders twice a yr and so on, and ben, wow, the ravens twice a yr (pitts d just as good and ravens offense until flacco was atrocious) and it must be tough facing the bengals and browns twice a season. those top flight D’s….eli has to face wash, phi and dallas 6 times a yr, guaranteed. now i know it isnt the broncos and raiders 4 times a yr nor the browns or bengals, but its sure close.

  99. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 10:32 AM

    You people really need to allow for instant commentary.
    This e-fascism could be quite easily rerouted to a policy of posting all comments and subsequently deleting those posts which are found genuinely offensive by the preponderance of the evidence gathered from the blog audience.
    This is the way most blogs function.
    Welcome to Teh Twentifirsteh Centureh.

  100. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 10:47 AM

    As for those of you who think the NFL can maintain its ludicrous and quite frankly anti-historical climb to the pinnacle of US industry salary projections without producing a worthwhile physical product…
    Wait just this one year until the whole rotten structure comes crashing down.
    The dominant NFL philosophy of permanent, unrestrained expansion is bound to catastrophically collapse under the weight of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
    People are going to value heating fuel and food above professional sports for the forseeable future.
    Best of luck, NFL!

  101. Kevin from Philly says: Aug 6, 2009 10:49 AM

    Let’s face it, there is no rational explaination as to how Eli won a Super Bowl. I can only guess that Archie and Peyton conducted some voodoo ceremony down in the swamps of southern Mississippi to put the hex on the Patriots.
    Other SB winning sucky QBs:
    Jim McMahon
    Doug Williams
    Jeff Hostetler
    Mark Rypien
    Plus the previously mentioned Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Eli might be better than two or three on that list.

  102. gnop05 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:51 AM

    VoxVeritas says: August 6, 2009 9:54 AM
    First you say this:
    “Just because a player wins in the big game or loses in the big game; he didn’t do it himself.”
    Then this:
    “Romo = 44-6 + shower”
    You contradict yourself in the same post.
    ________________________________
    Haha, nope, sure didn’t. No contradiction here. Romo AND THE TEAM HE WAS/IS ON …. LOSSSTTTTT and then collapsed in the shower.
    By the way Vox….
    .
    .
    .
    .
    44-6

  103. gnop05 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:52 AM

    nasheagles says: August 6, 2009 10:23 AM
    Thanks gmen– as an Eagle Fan.. I’m happy to know the ducks will be flying for years to come..
    ________________________
    LOL! Amen! Romo too!

  104. gnop05 says: Aug 6, 2009 10:56 AM

    jkorn1818 says: August 6, 2009 9:45 AM
    so pretty much everyone is horrible except mcnabb who will eventually win a superbowl?
    go back to bed
    _______________________
    I’m not catching your retaliation statement here… Pretty sure I did not say the word horrible. Please, next time, before logging in to post a meaningless post again, think. Please, just think…

  105. SixBurghDude says: Aug 6, 2009 11:02 AM

    VoxVeritas says:
    “Right. The goal of a football game is to win.”
    Couldn’t agree more, sport!
    Ben Roethlisberger – .720 winning pct. as a starter (59-23).
    Tony Romo – .659 winning pct. as a starter.
    JuliusBrown says:
    “Many have said that Ben Roethlisberger is a better qb than Eli Manning but they are about equal statistically and in my book.”
    About as equal statistically as the weather in Pittsburgh & Phoenix!
    thetruthhurts says:
    “That being said, there’s no QB I’d take over Roethlisberger precisely because of his winning ways and the statistical superiority that makes his success possible.
    He’s 7th all time in YPA at an outstanding 7.9, 3rd among actives. If the Steelers are 3rd and long, Ben moves the chains.”
    @ Dracula58 –
    Amen, bro…You hit the bases loaded walk-off game winner…my sentiments exactly!
    Count Dracula in cleats!!!

  106. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 11:12 AM

    “not to mention, we all cant face such stiff competition year in and out as Big Ben and Rivers face. I mean denvers D twice a yr and the raiders twice a yr and so on, and ben, wow, the ravens twice a yr (pitts d just as good and ravens offense until flacco was atrocious) and it must be tough facing the bengals and browns twice a season. those top flight D’s….eli has to face wash, phi and dallas 6 times a yr, guaranteed. now i know it isnt the broncos and raiders 4 times a yr nor the browns or bengals, but its sure close.”
    Again, the physical vs. intellectual superiority faced down by the futility of being an Eagle fan vs. being a Steeler fan here is quite frankly astonishing.
    “You’ve won two Super Bowls in the last four years and won both. We’ve been to one and lost it.”
    Close doesn’t count in anything. You miss, you lose.
    Pittsburgh Steelers: SB IX, X, XII, XIV, XL, XLIII are accounted for as wins.
    Philadelphia Eagles: No wins accounted for.
    So there’s that…

  107. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 11:20 AM

    why dont eagle fans think? youre so happy to have eli back, eli who is 6-2 in his career vs the eagles, i guess if they had someone better it would be 8-0?? hes thrown for 3 td games, 4 td games and close to 400 yards in a few, so eagle fans are relieved it isnt someone throwing for 6 td’s and 500 yards a game? I dont get why youd be so happy? one year since eli has been starting have you guys finished ahead of the giants in the nfc east standings.

  108. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 11:31 AM

    “Haha, nope, sure didn’t. No contradiction here. Romo AND THE TEAM HE WAS/IS ON …. LOSSSTTTTT and then collapsed in the shower.”
    The team collapsed in the shower? Be careful what you say, east96st believes everything that Eagirls fans say.
    But don’t let that fact get in the way of the fact that you’re a hypocritical idiot that can’t stop contradicting himself within the span of just a few words. What’s it like in 3rd grade special education classes?

  109. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 11:45 AM

    i dotn know gnop05, seems like you have an issue with every qb in the league except for that winner mcnabb…
    Youre basing his accolades on him eventually winning your franchises first sb? weird.

  110. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 11:51 AM

    “He’s 7th all time in YPA at an outstanding 7.9, 3rd among actives.”
    Behind Romo’s 8.08 career YPA average, by the way.
    “If the Steelers are 3rd and long, Ben moves the chains.”
    I only have last year’s splits to go on, but it’s as good a season as any to illustrate a comparison of each guy’s 3rd and long performance.
    Third and long (ESPN’s splits)
    Romo – 29 of 55 for 495 yards, 9.0 YPA, 4 TDs, 1 INT, rating 100.2
    Roeth. – 30 of 51 for 408 yards, 8.0 YPA, 1 TD, 3 INT, rating 66.5
    And just for laughs:
    McNabb – 32 of 53 for 475, 8.96 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, rating 94.5
    E. Manning – 35 of 53 for 431, 8.13 YPA, 1 TD, 0 INT, rating 97.3
    Campbell – 38 of 58 for 452, 7.79 YPA, 1TD, 0 INT, rating 94.9

  111. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 12:01 PM

    “i dotn know gnop05, seems like you have an issue with every qb in the league except for that winner mcnabb… Youre basing his accolades on him eventually winning your franchises first sb?”
    Don’t know about you, but for my money McNabb is the 4th best QB the Eagirls have had. Cunningham, Jaws, van Brocklin, McNabb, in that order. Maybe you could swap van Brocklin and McNabb. Before you even go there I will say that as of right now, I see Romo as no better than the 5th best QB the Cowboys have ever had. Staubach, Aikman, Meredith, White, Romo.

  112. meezle says: Aug 6, 2009 12:01 PM

    Jkorn ur wrong, that fool lost 2 games last season alone, how is he 6-2 against the eagles? U mean to tell me for the past 4 seasons they have swept the eagles? No they have played 10, 2 of which we playoff games which he lost, otherwise the giants have swept the eagles 3 consecutive seasons? I don’t think so
    Damn idiots

  113. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 12:23 PM

    Gotta give y’all one last lesson in being, y’know, all smart-a$$i$h and all that bull$hit…
    “You’re” means “You are,” as in “You’re categorically ignorant of the rules of grammar.”
    “Your” means “your” in the 1st person possessive, meaning “The stuff you think of as yours belongs to you and is your stuff.”
    Also: “Your categorical ignorance of the rules of grammar makes it so much easier to hold your intellect in utter contempt.”
    Sea? Edjamakation iz gud…

  114. SixBurghDude says: Aug 6, 2009 12:35 PM

    Vox,
    What, no distorted statistical post to spin the edge in Romo’s favor, in comparison to Ben? C’mon, dude, you did it with Witten vs. Heath, can’t be impossible for a football genius like yourself. Careful now, don’t want to contradict yourself & remember you said “they play to win the game”, of which I wholeheartedly agree, so let’s hear it!

  115. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 12:44 PM

    “I only have last year’s splits to go on, but it’s as good a season as any to illustrate a comparison of each guy’s 3rd and long performance.
    Third and long (ESPN’s splits)
    Romo – 29 of 55 for 495 yards, 9.0 YPA, 4 TDs, 1 INT, rating 100.2
    Roeth. – 30 of 51 for 408 yards, 8.0 YPA, 1 TD, 3 INT, rating 66.5
    And just for laughs:
    McNabb – 32 of 53 for 475, 8.96 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, rating 94.5
    E. Manning – 35 of 53 for 431, 8.13 YPA, 1 TD, 0 INT, rating 97.3
    Campbell – 38 of 58 for 452, 7.79 YPA, 1TD, 0 INT, rating 94.9.”
    True enough.
    Super Bowl Titles – Roethlisberger 2
    Super Bowl Titles – Your Collection Of Stiffs 1
    Y’know. Just for laughs.

  116. jkorn1818 says: Aug 6, 2009 12:50 PM

    meezle says:
    August 6, 2009 12:01 PM
    Jkorn ur wrong
    hes 6-2 in the regular season, 0-2 in the playoffs leaving him 6-4,over 500 in his career, elis 2 playoff loses to philly would have meant something if philly would have won something, at the end of the day, they both didnt..6-2 in the regular season, 6-4 overall, still over 500.. but like i said, every eagle fan is so happy to have him around, youd think he never beats them or threw all over them before.
    what is mcnabbs overall record vs the giants?

  117. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 12:56 PM

    Vox–
    Your misunderstanding about QB efficiency is understandable. Your intellect and literacy skills are clearly on par with my four-year-old niece.
    You should be proud. She’s in the 99th percentile of 4-year-olds.
    I suspect you’d come in somewhere in the 30s.
    All those Romo playoff successes should be dancing in your head like sugarplums.
    Oh, wait…I guess those failures torment you to the point in which you post such incredible idiocies.
    The craniorectalectomy is a fantastic option for persons like yourself…

  118. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 1:15 PM

    It’s 3 AM here in Australia, and the idiots who run this site do not allow for the instantaneous comment/response dynamic that would allow for the kind of uninterrupted discourse that would make these comment threads truly exceptional.
    Complain to the webizen fascists of PFT that these interruptions cripple the kind of seamless discussion fans like you and I demand.
    So for now I must say G’day…

  119. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 1:35 PM

    One last Vox Veritas complaint…
    My primary metric for success has always been career accomplishment, both for teams and individuals.
    My statement that Ben moves the chains on 3rd and long was simply a summation of the fact that his 8 yard-per-attempt career average will usually get it done on 3rd and long.
    Your craven attempt to subvert this obviously valid career statistic into a single season aberration of the QB who, in spite of the fact that he so obviously sucks so horribly and awfully, won the Super Bowl AGAIN is yet another indication of your profound intellectual dishonesty.
    Thank jebus you’re not a physician like me, or your patients would be running around blind, stupid and sterile.
    Kind of like Vox itself…

  120. mafleish says: Aug 6, 2009 1:51 PM

    I’m too lazy to read through it all, but has anyone mentioned the fact that other than 2007, Eli is 0-3 in the playoffs, and looked awful all three games?

  121. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:00 PM

    “What, no distorted statistical post to spin the edge in Romo’s favor, in comparison to Ben? C’mon, dude, you did it with Witten vs. Heath”
    Hard to believe that there are retards that think that Heath Miller is better than Jason Witten, isn’t it? Not coincidentally, same retards think that Big Ben is God’s gift to football.

  122. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:02 PM

    “Super Bowl Titles – Roethlisberger 2
    Super Bowl Titles – Your Collection Of Stiffs 1″
    Dan Marino – 0 Super Bowl wins
    Trent Dilfer – 1 Super Bowl win
    Big Ben – 2 Super Bowl wins

  123. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:05 PM

    “thetruthhurts says:”
    Nothing, really. Your chosen name says more than your posts ever could. Thanks for the elementary-level personal attacks because I provided a few facts that don’t paint your boy as the best QB ever. The truth does hurt, doesn’t it?

  124. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:08 PM

    The world’s not going to end just because Ben sucks on third down, guys. Accept it and move on.

  125. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:12 PM

    “Thank jebus you’re not a physician like me”
    Sure you are. Your inferiority complex is showing. Take a chill pill.

  126. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 2:16 PM

    Ben and Heath – 8 playoff victories, 2 Super Bowl victories.
    This is your human brain on Steeler football.
    Romo and Witten – 0 playoff victories, 0 Super Bowl victories.
    This is your lizard brain on Cowboys football.
    Ladies and Gentlemen, Vox Veritas! Where losing is a virtue, winning is a failure and idiocy is…well…idiocy.
    The voice of greater ignorance has never been heard.

  127. VoxVeritas says: Aug 6, 2009 2:24 PM

    “My statement that Ben moves the chains on 3rd and long was…”
    …in error. The Steelers were mediocre in 3rd down percentage. 14th of 32 teams. There’s no shame in admitting that you’re wrong about something in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. One would think that a physician would know this. Don’t be a pussy. Be a man and admit that you were wrong.
    By the way… the Steelers passing game was below average. 17th in yards per game, Ben threw 17 TDs against 15 INTs?

  128. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 2:30 PM

    Point-by-point, then.
    Attacking my “chosen name?” Yours means “Voice of Truth” in a dead language. Project much?
    Ben is far from the greatest QB ever, and I made no such claim to “paint him” as such. Just the 7th best in gaining Yards Per Attempt. Ever.
    And, yes, I am a physician and I thank jebus that subhumans like yourself are unable to comprehend that some of us are capable of doing something other than cleaning the vomit off the streets of Dallas. Again, project much?
    Chill pills don’t exist. Neither do smart pills, or I’d be sending you a script in the post.

  129. Shawn in Houston says: Aug 6, 2009 2:36 PM

    Sounds like jkorn1818 has a crush on Eli.

  130. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 2:38 PM

    “”My statement that Ben moves the chains on 3rd and long was…”
    …in error. The Steelers were mediocre in 3rd down percentage. 14th of 32 teams. There’s no shame in admitting that you’re wrong about something in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. One would think that a physician would know this. Don’t be a pussy. Be a man and admit that you were wrong.”
    I will not, because that is not what I said and your craven douchebaggery simply cannot stand.
    The simple fact is that a QB whose career average is 8 YPA will move the chains on 3rd and long far more often than not.
    Same with Romo. Moves the chains at 8 YPA as well. The problem is 0 playoff wins.
    You are obsessed with procedure and indifferent to outcome.
    Worst. Physician. Wannabe. Ever.

  131. thetruthhurts says: Aug 6, 2009 2:55 PM

    I must go even further and say that your appropriation of the word “veritas” sickens me to my very core.
    The motto of my alma mater is Veritas Liberabit, The Truth Shall Set You Free.
    Lafayette College graduated both the first freed African slave in the history of the nation and the author of the Red Badge Of Courage.
    The Marquis de Lafayette bankrupted his family three times to finance the Revolution and was the adopted son of George Washington.
    That’s the Voice of Truth.
    Yours is a fart in a hurricane.

  132. brewcrewe says: Aug 6, 2009 3:03 PM

    NFC East QB ratings:
    Romo-94.7(young career, has years to improve)
    Mcnabb-85.9 ( the best mobile QB in the league)
    Campbell-80.9( hasn’t reached full potential)
    Manning-76.1(Fully established as the worst QB in the NFC East)
    Ratings do matter..if Romo, Mcnabb or Campbell Played for NY, the Giants would be better than they are. Eli is a bus driver. If he would have been undrafted like Romo, he would have been cut years ago and sacking groceries.

  133. SixBurghDude says: Aug 6, 2009 3:06 PM

    Vox says:
    “By the way… the Steelers passing game was below average.”
    & I say:
    By the way…your Cryboys post-season success in recent history is an abyss* (definition provided, thus saving yourself the much needed time that can be better served, concocting statistical analysis that is taken out of context pertaining to the discussion at hand, for the purpose of spinning the favor in your direction).
    * a deep, immeasurable space, gulf, or cavity; vast chasm.

  134. neutralman says: Aug 6, 2009 3:11 PM

    I can’t believe that anyone would make close to 100 million. This is crazy. I understand that football players careers are shorter than most and need to make more than the average person, but Holy Crap… Sports figures are paid way too much while other people in our country suffer and we end up paying $9 for a beer at the stadium or $200 a ticket. Sports associations are part of the reason this country’s economy is in the crapper. I mean in a recession you offer a guy 100 million…. REALLY???? The entertainment industry which in some cases includes sports needs a reality check.

  135. BAREFAN says: Aug 6, 2009 5:15 PM

    I’d have trouble giving Eli 1.6 M per year…

  136. nfl_fan56 says: Aug 7, 2009 1:23 AM

    I’m not going to bother arguing whether or not Eli Manning is any better or worse than all of the other quarterbacks mentioned in any of the previous posts…
    What surprises me is that no one here has mentioned the one quarterback that is ultimately the reason Eli Manning recieved his new contract: Matthew Stafford. Comparing Eli to any of the other quarterbacks is pointless because almost certainly at least 75% of the other quarterbacks mentioned will be earning similar dollar amounts in the near future, whether they be better or worse than Eli Manning. If you want to blame someone for raising the stakes like this, blame the Detroit Lions. After all, Super Bowl ring or not, playoff appearances or not, I don’t think there are many here who will try and argue that Matthew Stafford, having never played a down in the NFL thus far, is better than Eli Manning…
    Just my two cents anyways…

  137. SixBurghDude says: Aug 7, 2009 1:37 PM

    Too much money for Eli Manning?
    NOPE, just right, if you don’t believe me just ask Archie!

  138. Mook says: Aug 8, 2009 10:26 AM

    I was at the Meadowlands for that Vikings game, and it doesn’t get any uglier than what he did that day. If you had told anyone in the stadium that this same guy would beat the undefeated Pats a few months later in the Super Bowl, well, they would have called for the men in white jackets to take you to Bellevue. 3 of Manning’s 4 picks that day were returned for touchdowns, and the Vikes scored a TD off the other interception on the first play from scrimmage.
    After that Vikings game, he bounced back and had a magical year in 2007, so give him credit. That said, aside from the Super Bowl year, he’s 0-3 in playoff games, and his performances in two of those three were abysmal.
    Florio is right, you need to see him do it again before making him one of the highest paid in the game. Can you name 10 QBs you’d rather have than Eli Manning? In no particular order, it’s pretty easy.
    – Peyton Manning
    – Brady
    – Palmer
    – Rivers
    – Roethlisberger
    – Brees
    – McNabb
    – Rogers
    – Warner
    – Romo
    And this list doesn’t even include young guys that show far more promise than Eli does, like Matt Ryan, Matt Cassell, and Joe Flacco. I’d also put Bulger ahead of him, so what does that make Eli, #15?
    I know you gotta pay your QB, but Eli is getting way too much here.

  139. sux2beyou says: Aug 20, 2009 7:43 PM

    okay I am a seattle fan who has sat and suffered in (near silence for too) long anyone who thinks worthelessburger made it to that first super bowl as a #6 seed against all of the talented afc players and then beat our #1 ranked team has their way, way up their butt. How do you walk? How naive are you? More money changed hands than our national debt for that one my friend. Ask the number nerd on the odds it could not, happen would not happen only 9000 tickets were sent to seattle fans and the superbowl was held in detroit? It was Bill Cowards final hour stirred in with Jerome bet this . They never shoul have made it past Carson Palmer.If they made the play offs at all. Then it happened twice? a few years later ? Against a stronger, bigger, #1 defensive team? right again

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