As the impasse between the Bengals and tackle Andre Smith continues, it's looking like the sixth overall pick and the team won't be coming to an agreement in the near future.
On his Twitter page, agent Alvin Keels claims that Bengals owner Mike Brown has no intention of respecting the quasi-formal ritual of the slotting process.
"Leaving Cinci," Keels posted shortly after 8:00 p.m. ET on his Twitter page. "Not any closer on a deal for Andre Smith. Mike Brown says 'the ship has sailed on the slotting system.'"
Joe Reedy of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports that Keels left the Queen City after four hours of face-to-face meetings with Brown and Katie Blackburn yielded no progress.
Though it's Brown's prerogative (misguided as it might be) to ignore a system to which every other franchise adheres, the notion that "the ship has sailed" is disingenuous.
The ship is still tied to the dock.
With the exception of the 49ers, every other franchise has applied the slotting system with respect to this year's first-round picks. As to the 49ers, the inability to sign receiver Michael Crabtree arises from agent Eugene Parker's attempt to treat the slotting system as a boat bound for Blingland.
Look, if the Bengals didn't want to pay the kind of contract that the sixth overall pick in the draft now commands, the Bengals should have traded out of the slot or passed on the pick.
Even better, they shouldn't have been the sixth worst team in the league last season.
Keels claims Bengals think the "ship has sailed" on slotting
Posted by Mike Florio on August 23, 2009 8:10 PM ET
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Oh well, if Mike Brown says the ship has sailed he must be right. One of the worst owners in the NFL, poor Bungles fans.
Can you comment on the rumor that the reason it has sailed is that the Raiders low balled a lower draft pick enabling a lot more money to their first rounder and the Bengals don't have the money in their rookie pool left to pay Smith the amount needed?
Smith continues to prove he is a turd. He went from stud to total dude in 6 months. He may have the physical skills but he displays the brains the size of a walnut.
The real Super bowl for Mike Brown and his daughter Katie Blackburn is this negotiation with Andre Smith. The performance on the field is very secondary. Aren't we (Cincinnati) lucky.......
You hit the nail on the head Florio. As a lifelong Bengals fan, this is he type of mom and pop shenanigans we Cincinnatians go through every fall. Palmer broke his nose last preseason, then suffered a career threatening arm injury due to a piss poor O-Line. The season is 3 weeks away and still no movement............STEP DOWN MIKE BROWN
Does slotting violate any Anti-trust laws?
The Bungles continue to be a joke and Katie Blackburn is the new laughingstock of pro football courtesy of Hard Knocks.
I never thought I would say this but the agent is the one who is being fair this time around.
After such a great offseason,I guess it's hard not to expect Mike Brown to bungle it up some :|...Everyone agrees the Rookie contracts are out of control but you waited to be slotted and it bit you in the ass so now you decide to fight it...
Fight it @ CBA extension talks when it will actually matter vs costing a player having any impact this season because you wanna pocket more money...
everyone complains rookies get paid too much and when someone tries to do something about.....they bitch about that!
This is just another example of why the Bengals are the joke of the league. There is no way Andre Smith should take less money than the No. 7 pick and Mike Brown is an idiot if he thinks it's going to happen.
he needs all the money he can get, breast implants are not cheap
As much as Mike Brown has screwed this franchise up in the last two decades, I actually don't have a problem with this.
Giving a rookie so much money just to have them bust is salary cap suicide.
The slotting system is idiotic and so are the owners and agents that perpetuate its existance. Smith can either sign the offer and get millions now and deal with the fact that he gets a few million less than the guy behind him or he can sit out all year with Crabtree and get drafted two or three rounds lower than he did this year and make millions less than he's being offered right now.
But, hey, at least he'd have his pride...
@kazkal
"Fight it @ CBA extension talks when it will actually matter vs costing a player having any impact this season because you wanna pocket more money..."
You hit it exactly kaz. Don't make the kid the pawn. He's just the player, he didn't make the game. Hell, as a rookie he wasn't even part of the last CBA negotiation.
If by "the ship has sailed" Brown means, "Hey, you idiot, he's of no use to us for the first 6 games, why the hell should be pay him for the entire year?" I agree with Brown. Holding out and then expecting full pay for part time work is stupid. He should have signed a couple of months ago. He'd still be rich, but then he'd also be respected.
Can you comment on the rumor that the reason it has sailed is that the Raiders low balled a lower draft pick enabling a lot more money to their first rounder and the Bengals don't have the money in their rookie pool left to pay Smith the amount needed?
Who are they going to low-ball? Money tails off rapidly after the first round. How much more money are they going to have available by stiffing a guy further down the ladder? Mitchell was supposedly a FA that got picked in the second round. Did his agent cave in and accept FA money? Doubtful, unless Daunte Culpepper worked his deal. Personally, I would love it if Crazy Al was the reason a fat-ass lineman and a skirt-wearing wideout refused to sign a deal, but I'm not giving him the credit.
He means that since it's so late in the preseason, which will cause diminishing returns for this year, that the slotting process at this stage in the game is no longer equitable.
I feel bad for the Bengals fans. It must be awful when your owner and front office do nothing but set back your team. This is just plain stupid, because they will end up signing him. They may get him for cheap, but his first year will be a waste.
KnoxBengalFan says:
August 23, 2009 8:40 PM
everyone complains rookies get paid too much and when someone tries to do something about.....they bitch about that!
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Agree 100%!
Eugene Parker and Michael Crabtree are trying to bust the slot system in favor of the players. Mike Brown is doing the same, only in favor of the team.
Rookies are OVERPAID! I applaud Mike Brown. Al Davis is the idiot that continues to give agents more ammo.
Maybe the Bengals and Niners can work out a trade.
At some point Roger Goodell needs to visit Cincinnati and smack Mike Brown and his man-loooking daughter in the face. There are organized protests in Cincinnati against Mike Brown. There is 19 years of futility. There is a stadium that the city entirely paid for. There is the laundry list of first round holdouts. How many years of torture can the NFL allow Bengals fans to endure. It's a joke and a sin to allow this man to run an NFL franchise.
Yeah thats what I was thinking too. Mike Brown is such an easy target but lets look and his smarter business moves.
1. He made the Ocho honor his contract and did not give in to his demands. ( He will be a pro bowler in 09)
2. He insisted that troubled Chris Henry is good enough to have a third chance. (This guy is the real deal.)
I agree he needs a high level GM and a larger scouting dept. But yet they sell out every game even pre- season games year after year. The fans are loyal for a team that has not done as well as they could've or should have been
I see everywhere where fans say, That rookie salaries are way too high! So Brown tries to "keep it real" and many still call him...whatever in spite of their position against over paid rookies.
Lets see how this plays out. The Browns have been stead fast on other NFL issues in recent memory that have not been popular with other owners but in hind site... they were right!
The Midwest by in large is a very conservative region perhaps to a fault. But it is what it is. (/preposition)
I think this is a precursor to the CBA talks regarding rookie salaries. DeMaurice Smith has said all along that the owners are responsible for the huge salaries that the rookies are getting in the first round. He is pretty much making the point that the owners made the bed and now they have to lie in it. I think Mike Brown has taken De Smith's comments to heart, and is no longer going to sign these ridiculous deals. I think it is insane that Andre Smith will walk into the Bengals as there top paid O-linmen, having never taken a snap. I think it is definitely time to go the NBA rout when it comes to the rookies, and redistribute these millions to Vetrans. I hate that the Bengals are missing Andre, but I agree with the stand that Mike Brown has taken, and I think the Bengals fans have De Smith to thank for opening Mike's eyes.
smith needs to get arrested before bengals will give him his contract
Please don't applaud the Browns for this. They use the slotting when it is to their advantage so they should honor it when it isn't. They are just being cheap when they have hundreds of millions. Like I said before - if they didn't want to pay "a lot of money" they should have traded down.
guyfromahs says: "How many years of torture can the NFL allow Bengals fans to endure."
For as long as you keep buying tickets, food, beer, and merchandise.
The alternative is you stop buying those things and they move your team.... Our only option is to out live Mike Brown and hope Katie wants to win. Although that is not looking so good
For all his antics the last couple of years, some have panned out (drafting Michael Bush and Zach Miller), some have not (signing DeAngelo Hall, Javon Walker and Gibril Wilson ridiculous amounts of money), here's the thing with Al Davis.
He is not responsible for any other teams getting their draft picks signed or not.
He owns the Raiders, so he has the right to pay his players any amounts of dollars he wants.
Putting the blame on Big Al for the Heyward-Bey deal is misplaced.
If other owners don't want to pay draft picks the money (they also have a right to do so), its on the team, not Al Davis.
Say what you will but the first round is the most painful for all teams especially for the teams picking in the top 10. I applaud the Bengals if they are standing up to the NFLPA, and they are calling De Smith out for his comments saying that the owners are responsible for the salaries being what they are.
Florio spends all year blasting the NFL for overpaying rookies. Now he blasts the Bengals for doing something about it.
Good for the Bengals.
Florio - is Keels paying you a commission?
Jungle Juice, As we can see from your name you're are a Bengals fan. I understand you are not a Brown family fan, No problem.. I feel ya!
But your argument of- "if they didn't want to pay "a lot of money" they should have traded down" isn't a smart business decision either.
There is no way in hell a rookie that is supposed to be a left tackle and will start his career as a blob of a right tackle should ask for money that is more than the 7th rounder when he is only a sixth rounder and the 7th is a skilled position player.
If Sanchez (#5) was signed at 28M guaranteed and Heyward Bey (#7) was signed at 23.5M guaranteed, I believe 25M guaranteed offer to Smith (#6) is very reasonable. I don’t understand why this 28M offer (how much is guaranteed) and maximum of 33M, could be worse than the 25M guaranteed deal, unless the player is injured?
Not only that but, rookie contracts are stacked one way against teams. How many games can each rookie guarantee the team that he plays for in the next 5 years? I believe the guaranteed part of the contract should only kick in if players play/dress for a minimum of 5 regular season games (30%) per season (or 25 games for 5 years).
Humboldt420 says:
August 23, 2009 10:49 PM
For all his antics the last couple of years, some have panned out (drafting Michael Bush and Zach Miller), some have not (signing DeAngelo Hall, Javon Walker and Gibril Wilson ridiculous amounts of money), here's the thing with Al Davis.
He is not responsible for any other teams getting their draft picks signed or not.
He owns the Raiders, so he has the right to pay his players any amounts of dollars he wants.
Putting the blame on Big Al for the Heyward-Bey deal is misplaced.
If other owners don't want to pay draft picks the money (they also have a right to do so), its on the team, not Al Davis.
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Al Davis has ALWAYS only looked out for himself. He has 31 partners in a multi billion dollar enterprise, and he has never done anything that benefits the league (and his partners).
When you CONTINUALLY overpay for washed up players, and overrated rookies, then it damages the league as a whole because it gives more leverage to agents. Look at what is happening now with Crabtree because Senile Davis overpaid for butter fingers. It is directly affecting other teams.
Dont give this crap about how he is not responsible for other teams getting picks signed. DUH! But he is responsible for blowing the slots of of whack.
Al Davis is washed up and needs to be put out to pasture. Hopefully you are a Raiders fan by the way you defend him.
Your reasoning along with Mr. Senile can only insure the other AFC West teams will always be able to thump on the pathetic Raiders.
"A commitment to never win another championship" .... "Just be medicocre, baby"
Cryp2knight says:
"But yet they sell out every game even pre- season games year after year."
Thx. mostly to fans of visiting teams with real fan bases, who buy up the remaining tix to see a game their team has no doubt checked off as a sure win against an inferior opponent!
Do I think top 10 rookies are paid too much?
Yes, but this is the system the owners have gotten themselves into and so they have to deal with it. I rather see proven players get the cash the rookies are getting. But at the end of the day none of that money really matters to me. Its not coming out of my paycheck and i'm not gaining anything from it. If Mike Brown pays Andre Smith less money (or doesn't pay him at all) its not like he is gonna lower the price of hot dogs or season tickets. Your Bengals viewing experience will just be worse because of it.
Making a solo stand at the expense of your team and product that will have little effect because its a competition. Other owners don't like paying their top picks that much but they also want to win and want their guys on the field.
and it doesn't matter if Andre Smith is a bust or not. The Bengals thought he was at the least the 6th best player in the draft. If he sucks maybe they should put more effort and money in scouting.
Cullen says: "The alternative is you stop buying those things and they move your team.... "
Which city, exactly, do you think is the financial position to take on a NFL franchise? There has never been a better time to boycott your team if you're unhappy with how the team is being run. They need every penny and no city wants to take on the expense. The ball is in your court, Cincy. Make a stand now or live with this crap for decades.
Joketown Fraiders:
Commitment to Irrelevance!
Just Wince Baby!!
The autumn wind is a Rectalraider!!!
SixBurgh: wrote "Thx. mostly to fans of visiting teams with real fan bases, who buy up the remaining tix to see a game their team has no doubt checked off as a sure win against an inferior opponent!
Oh here we go............
I'm a 10 year season ticket holder and that did happen once and yes it was a Steeler vs. Cincy game like in the mid 90's @ Riverfront Stadium, a whole lot of black and yellow. It was embarrassing as hell! Since PBS and the Carson era this has never happend.
Oh BTW... thx for the thread jacking!
gameday says: August 23, 2009 11:21 PM
Al Davis has ALWAYS only looked out for himself. He has 31 partners in a multi billion dollar enterprise, and he has never done anything that benefits the league (and his partners).
When you CONTINUALLY overpay for washed up players, and overrated rookies, then it damages the league as a whole because it gives more leverage to agents. Look at what is happening now with Crabtree because Senile Davis overpaid for butter fingers. It is directly affecting other teams.
Dont give this crap about how he is not responsible for other teams getting picks signed. DUH! But he is responsible for blowing the slots of of whack.
Al Davis is washed up and needs to be put out to pasture. Hopefully you are a Raiders fan by the way you defend him.
Your reasoning along with Mr. Senile can only insure the other AFC West teams will always be able to thump on the pathetic Raiders.
"A commitment to never win another championship" .... "Just be medicocre, baby"
So you would be in agreement that other owners, who have paid ridiculous amounts of money to other players (Dan Snyder - Redskins; Jerry Jones - Cowboys to name just a few) , can be held accountable for also jacking up prices for players as well?
gameday says: August 23, 2009 11:21 PM
Hey gameday. I'm a 49ers fan, thank you very much. And while I do believe Al Davis is rotting with his old age, the Yorks (49ers owners) are catching up.
i.e. The Crabtree debacle. I read all the stories from various sources about how he was a headcase --- dsepite his accolades at school.
I hope I'm dead wrong about this, but I have a feeling he's the next Rashaun Woods. Remember him?
Wideout from Oklahoma State who put up ungoldy numbers like Crabtee in the spread offense only to flame out as a uber bust for the 49ers.
Ah, that wound is still fresh....
Though not a big Mike Brown fan, though I probably should be given I am a big time lifelong Steeler fan --- I do agree (to a point) with Brown's call that the slotting ship has sailed. Smith's value depreciates further and further as he continues to miss reps with the team.
Besides, Andre Smith is taking a pretty "uppity" position given how big of a steaming dump Smith left in his pants at every turn at the Combine, plus other related opps. The guy should have heeded Costanza's advice to "do the opposite" of whatever instinct he may have had.
The slotting system is stupid. Just because you are drafted inbetween two guys does not mean your talent level is between those two. A team may pass on a better talent because they have no need at the position.
If the Lions had a decent QB, or access to one via a trade, or the Lions opt to be stupid and pick a WR, Stafford does not go #1. So, if he goes #2 he's not as good of a QB/player?
Or if the team at pick 3 over pays, the team at pick 4 and beyond must suffer the consequences for the other teams mistake?
Cryp2knight says:
"I'm a 10 year season ticket holder and that did happen once"
I'm very proud of you, but ONCE? C'mon man! In all of my annual trips to Sincy for Steelers @ Bungholes, the story was the same, SteelerNation owned your jungle. Plus the city blows so I'll be making one of my road trips elsewhere...Sincy's only redeeming quality is that for such a lame-ass city you do have an above average amount of hot chicks, bet they can't wait for football season when the real men come to town!
I've watched the preseason and clearly the Bengals still have Oline problems. Pass protection isn't good. Carson was slapped around enough to get a bum ankle. Run blocking has not been good. Depth isn't good either. God help them if either Whit or Collins goes down for significant time.
Even if Smith signed today, he wouldn't be a ready to play for at least 2 months IMHO.
If anything shows that the Bengals aren't committed to winning its this nonsense with Andre Smith.
@ gameday
Your blaming of Al Davis is moronic. He gave his player the fair going rate for the position he was drafted. It's not Al's fault that rookies get more than they should in this current era. he didn't create this system, Your an idiot if you think any different. If it's Al's fault , then why not blame the other six teams that have paid their picks more than Al did? Oh wait, I guess it's Al's fault they had to pay what they did as well, in your little pea brained world. Stop pointing fingers in the wrong direction. Those that are to blame, are the agents, and those that allowed the market to get the way it is now. There are 31 other owners that are just as much to blame for this, so lay off the Raiders and Al. Your just being a hater and making yourself look lie a dip-shit in the process.