As the Patriots and the Colts prepare to face each other yet again, the folks at the Indianapolis Star have compiled comprehensive statistics for the two future Hall of Fame quarterbacks who'll meet on Sunday for the eleventh time.
Tom Brady leads the series, 7-3. In Super Bowl wins, Brady holds a 3-1 edge.
So far this year, Peyton Manning has been the better of the two. He has steadied a franchise in transition, and they have yet to lose. Manning remains on track to set the single-season passing yardage record, and the midseason MVP talk has largely centered on Manning and Saints quarterback Drew Brees.
Once again, the game has high stakes. With the Colts and the Patriots possibly on track to meet again in the postseason, the winner of Sunday's game at Lucas Oil Stadium will go a long way toward determining the site of the rematch. Victory by Indy would give the Colts a three-game lead plus the head-to-head tiebreaker. A win by the Pats would cut the gap between them to one game, with New England holding the edge if they end up with the same record.
Manning vs. Brady, part 11
Posted by Mike Florio on November 10, 2009 8:08 AM ET
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Latest stories in: Indianapolis Colts, Latest News and Rumors, NFL Mobile Exclusives - Rumors, New England Patriots, Top Stories
Latest stories in: Indianapolis Colts, Latest News and Rumors, NFL Mobile Exclusives - Rumors, New England Patriots, Top Stories
Dolt fans need to get ready for their unbeaten season to come to a close. Entirely too many injuries on the Indy side to pull out a win. Brady and the Patriots will improve the series record to 8-3.
Patriots 27
Colts 17
This should be a great game. If we can bring some pressure, I think its winnable. GO PATS!!!!!!!
As a rule of thumb, Patriots fans seem to respect Manning more than Colts fans respect Brady.
That said, as great as Peyton Manning is, you can toss out individual statistics, head-to-head matchups, Super Bowl titles, league MVPs, and everything else, and ask this one simple, honest question:
With everything on the line, who is the quarterback you count on most to get the job done and come through in the clutch; Peyton Manning or Tom Brady?
They're both first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks, but when it's crunch time, we've seen Brady come through more concsistently than Manning.
As always, I see this game coming down to the 4th quarter. With the game being in Indy, I don't see the Patriots winning it.
Colts - 31
Patriots - 27
Oh yes. It's time once again for the pre-AFC Championship Game/ this years edition of the Greatest Game ever. I'm already tired of hearing about it. By game time, I'll hate both teams.
The Colts can defend the pass, and the Patriots can't run the ball.
Not sure what the stats mean... other than the Colts throw the ball a lot.
If you bring Drew Brees into the discussion this year... he gets penalized because of a balanced running game in New Orleans. Saints are the #1 offense in the NFL. Patriots #2 and Colts #5.
Patriots at least TRY to run the ball and rank #16 in the league. Manning's Colts are ranked #29.
Big stats are Wins and championships.
Passing stats are for Pro Bowl wannabe's and HOF... and for guys like Fouts and Marino.
I like me some Troy Aikman and Phil Simms. Plumbers with rings.
"By game time, I'll hate both teams"
Of course you will; you're a bitter Bears fan who has to look at Jay Cutler instead of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.
As a rule of thumb, Patriots fans seem to respect Manning more than Colts fans respect Brady.
That's odd, I've always noticed the opposite to be true.
"So far this year, Peyton Manning has been the better of the two."
Such a declarative statement. There numbers are nearly identical, same TDs, same INTs, Peyton has 180 more passing yards yet the Colts have played a lesser quality schedule thus far. Look for Brady to be a part of the MVP discussion by the end of the year.
why do posters continually use childish insults when talking about other teams. changing team names to things like dolts, eagirls, squealers, cheatriots, bungles, cowgirls, etc are really making people look ridiculous.
@richm: good question, more recently manning has been the one that comes through, but on any given day i'll take brady. that said, i hope the colts crush the pats, simply because i hate the pats, which is mostly due to all the sudden life long pats fans that live near me.
@ Ricm2256
To answer your question I'll take Brady over Manning.
@ Leatherneck
There is a difference in can't run the ball and not needing to really run the ball when you have a future hall of famer at quarterback and at wide receiver in (Randy Moss)that said both the Colts and Patriots have great passing attack but the Pats seem to have a better run game while the Colts seem to abandon the run much quicker than the Pats. This game should be great like always, just want to see if Brady keep making Manning and the Colts his beating stick
Patriots 28 Colts 24.
"The Colts can defend the pass, and the Patriots can't run the ball."
Ummmm .... New England is ranked 16th in rushing, not great but better than 29th which is where Indy is ranked. Want to talk pass defense? New England is ranked THIRD, Indy is ranked ninth.
I love how so many posters here spew off at the mouth without having a single clue. When, oh when is Florio going to start weeding out these imbecile posters?
"why do posters continually use childish insults when talking about other teams. changing team names to things like dolts, eagirls, squealers, cheatriots, bungles, cowgirls, etc are really making people look ridiculous"
This, from a poster by the name of slutnuts.
(sorry, couldn't resist!)
Hey Rich, I'm not bitter about anything, and yes, Brady or Manning would be great on the Bears. I AM bitter about the constant media erection about how these teams, QB's, Coaches, fans, cities, Etc, are the greatest ever, blah, blah, blah. Now, mother is calling. Your Captain Crunch is ready.
Ha the great debate will now begin who's better Brady or Manning we can all admit that their both phenomenal Quarterbacks, but one thing is always been overlook is that Manning for what ever reason tends to struggle against teams who run the 3-4 defensive scheme, case in point
Steelers, Chargers and Patriots all 3-4 defenses and Manning as struggled to beat these teams especially in the playoffs when it counts the most while hate him or not Brady as been to 4 Super Bowls mostly beating Manning and the Colts to get there. WHAT SAY YOU GUYS???
Patriots win this one easily by 20 points or more.
I'm thinking about a 35 - 10 final.
Before anyone bashes me about this, look at the stats, look at what teams have been played against by these two teams and tell me that there is even a slight chance this can even be close. This is not the same Colts team from years past, but the Pats are not either. However, the Pats have arguably changed for the better (or at least getting to that point) while the Colts have remained stagnant or lost it by a bit here and there.
Let the media hype this up all they want, but this game isn't even going to be close. Sorry Colts fans, your win streak is over and after what the Patriots do to them, the rest of the league will have the blue print on how easy it is to beat them. Expect the Colts to go .500 after that.
The Colts can defend the pass? Yes, against bad teams. Good luck defending Moss, Welker, Watson, and Aiken all that the same time. That will be fun to watch... for Patriots fans.
Speedy had it right with the first post, Patriots 27 Colts 17.
# DarkHorse81 says: November 10, 2009 9:38 AM
Ha the great debate will now begin who's better Brady or Manning we can all admit that their both phenomenal Quarterbacks, but one thing is always been overlook is that Manning for what ever reason tends to struggle against teams who run the 3-4 defensive scheme, case in point
Steelers, Chargers and Patriots all 3-4 defenses and Manning as struggled to beat these teams especially in the playoffs when it counts the most while hate him or not Brady as been to 4 Super Bowls mostly beating Manning and the Colts to get there. WHAT SAY YOU GUYS???
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Colts didn't have the advantage of opponents signals and an array of tapes.
I hope Tom doesn't try to slap any nuts
"Your Captain Crunch is ready"
Can't even get THAT right, bearsrule.
It's called Cap'n Crunch. I know how to spell it and I don't even like it! Like me some Cocoa Crispies though ... but your mother already knew that.
Steelers, Chargers and Patriots all 3-4 defenses and Manning as struggled to beat these teams
The Chargers generally beat the Colts
The Colts generally beat the Broncos
The Broncos generally beat the Patriots
The Patriots generally beat the Chargers
It's like the AFC Circle of Life
...With everything on the line, who is the quarterback you count on most to get the job done and come through in the clutch; Peyton Manning or Tom Brady?...
Outdoors most would go with Brady. In the snow everyone, even Colts fans, would go with Brady. But although Brady also has excellent indoor stats, it is almost impossible to bet against Peyton in his own dome.
whywerule:" although Brady also has excellent indoor stats, it is almost impossible to bet against Peyton in his own dome"
You DON'T rule, my friend. Once again people post here without checking their facts.
In the Brady-Manning games (2001-2008; Brady missed 2008), New England has beaten Indy three games to one, at Indy. Manning has fared little better in New England, winning two games to Brady's four. This includes regular and post-sason games.
Brady owns Manning seven games to threee, regardless of where they play.
Richm2256 says: November 10, 2009 11:08 AM
whywerule:" although Brady also has excellent indoor stats, it is almost impossible to bet against Peyton in his own dome"
You DON'T rule, my friend. Once again people post here without checking their facts.
In the Brady-Manning games (2001-2008; Brady missed 2008), New England has beaten Indy three games to one, at Indy. Manning has fared little better in New England, winning two games to Brady's four. This includes regular and post-sason games.
Brady owns Manning seven games to threee, regardless of where they play
The Colts have won four of the last five, however, including a playoff victory in 2006
Manning vs. Pats D, historically a wash.
Brady vs. Colts D, Brady wins more times than not.
With that aside, and all things being equal, Peyton Manning is the superior quarterback and the discussion should be who is two. Brees or Brady.
I won't call Brady a modern day Bradshaw, but it's close. Quite a few qb's would win/produce in that offensive system, under that coach and with that defense. Not quite as many that would have won with the Steelers D, but quite a few. Brady was in the right place at the right time, just as Cassel was last season and Orton is this year.
Peyton Manning is the best quarterback this game has ever seen.
true, chimeric. pats also usually beat steelers. if not a big game bolts beat pats. steelers beat bolts. bolts beat broncos.
sunday night i want the points.
[quote]The Chargers generally beat the Colts
The Colts generally beat the Broncos
The Broncos generally beat the Patriots
The Patriots generally beat the Chargers
It's like the AFC Circle of Life
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly. It's like when Frazier used to struggle with Foreman, Ali used to struggle with Frazier, and Foreman used to struggle with Ali.
Oh I'm sorry, boxing hasn't been relevant since 1989 but you get the point.
Patriots match up great against the Colts. Against the Steelers and Broncos, nto so much.
Pats by ten.
Ufanforreal says:
Colts didn't have the advantage of opponents signals and an array of tapes.
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Hmmm, I thought all teams used films and tapes. As well as constantly trying to decipher signals...
I always thought that was something that was typically done, I guess the Colts never figured that out.
The "cheating" years should not be counted regarding Brady's bogus stats. In the 2006-season AFCC playoff game, Dungy/Colts did not allow cameras. This was before the cheating Brady and Bellicheat were caught, but other teams knew they were cheating. Dungy knew and decided to make the game fair by allowing no cameras, so the Pats* were unable to make their "halftime adjustments."
ufanforreal, how exactly can you say that Manning has won four out of the last five versus Brady, when he has only won three times against a Brady-quartbacked Patriots team since Brady took over the starting position in 2001?
Or are you counting the "just squeaked by" 18-15 win against back-up Matt Cassell 's Patriots in 2008 (in Indy, I might add!) Think Tom Brady wins that game? I do.
spybots, every single team in the NFL watches the opposition sidelines for signals. Every team team in the NFL tapes signals, from many different vantage points. It's ALLOWED! The difference with New England wasn't that they were taping signals - as every single team does - but WHERE they were taping them from.
I know that's a complex thing for your little mind to wrap around, but TRY. Same for every other "cheatriots" idiot out there.
As for the morons who insist that it's the "system" and not Tom Brady's talents, Matt Cassell last year took a team that went 18-1 in 2007, and ended up with an 11-5 record.
Is 18-1 better than 11-5?
I swear, some of you are blinded senseless of the facts by your hatred for a legendary team and coach.
Yes the system allowed a qb that hasn't started a game since high school to go 11-5 and become a very rich man. Cassell had better personal QB #'s in his first 15 starts than Brady did. Did Moss and Welker help Cassel in that manner, of course, but it's the system that provides the structure for qb success in New England.
Brady played on a better team during his first 15 starts, which is proven by a Super Bowl title that year.
The system is qb friendly, no matter how you cut it. Look at another mediocre at best qb, in Kyle Orton producing in the same system in Denver.
While Brady is certainly not mediocre, he might have been to start with, but he is a top 3 qb in the game, he isn't on the same level of Peyton Manning who has never played for a coach with the aggressiveness of Bill Bellichick, who is still the main reason in the success of the New England Patriots. Spygate aside, he is still a football genius.
Important motivating factor for both teams: The Colts are ONE win away from tying the Patriots as the second most consecutive regular season wins and four wins away from tying the Patriots as for the most consecutive regular season wins. This game can help to define or obscure the legacy of BOTH teams. Go PATS!
"he isn't on the same level of Peyton Manning"
Single dumbest comment I have ever read on this board in two years.
Statistics aside (and I would LOVE to see comparitive stats for both Brady and Manning, 2001-2007, and 2009), Brady's 3 Super Bowls to Manning's 1 and his 7-3 head to head record says he is every bit Manning's level, if not a notch ABOVE.
Richm,
Yes you might be the single dumbest poster here, but some do give you a run for your money. Both dollars.
It's quite clear that Brady has been a member of a more successful team.
It's also quite clear that the reason for that success is found in other places than the quarterback position.
# Richm2256 says: November 10, 2009 3:16 PM
"he isn't on the same level of Peyton Manning"
Single dumbest comment I have ever read on this board in two years.
Statistics aside (and I would LOVE to see comparitive stats for both Brady and Manning, 2001-2007, and 2009), Brady's 3 Super Bowls to Manning's 1 and his 7-3 head to head record says he is every bit Manning's level, if not a notch ABOVE.
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Just where are you getting the stats of 7-3 in favor of Brady, everything I find shows (not counting when Brady missed the season) that the Colts have won the last 4 out of 5 games 2 at NE turf.
Richm2256 says:
November 10, 2009 9:10 AM
"The Colts can defend the pass, and the Patriots can't run the ball."
Ummmm .... New England is ranked 16th in rushing, not great but better than 29th which is where Indy is ranked. Want to talk pass defense? New England is ranked THIRD, Indy is ranked ninth.
I love how so many posters here spew off at the mouth without having a single clue. When, oh when is Florio going to start weeding out these imbecile posters?
_______
He could START with YOU...and immediately raise the collective IQ of the board immensely. Dumping the rest of you moronic Pats fan losers would put this board on the level of the Mensa society. Get crackin', Florio!
Richm2256 each post was very well said by you. theyre all just haters. theyre jealous. if i had time to post alot, i couldnt say it any better than you.
CornFlorio: "He could START with YOU...and immediately raise the collective IQ of the board immensely. Dumping the rest of you moronic Pats fan losers would put this board on the level of the Mensa society"
Please, CornFlorio, show me where I was wrong.
Is Indy not ranked 29th in rushing to New England's 16th? Is Indy not ranked ninth in pass defense to New England's third? Those were the two stats that leatherneck bragged about when he said "The Colts can defend the pass, and the Patriots can't run the ball"
Try to come up with a legitimate refute of those stats instead of calling someone "moronic", would you? Good job, by the way, spelling Mensa correctly. Now if you only knew what it was.
"Just where are you getting the stats of 7-3 in favor of Brady, everything I find shows (not counting when Brady missed the season) that the Colts have won the last 4 out of 5 games 2 at NE turf"
Just because you can't find it, doesn't mean it's not true.
You can look up each team's record from 2001 to 2007, and see which team beat which, in which stadium (regular season and playoffs). Brady missed 2008, and this thread is about Brady vs. Manning, not Indy vs. New England, so Indy's 18-15 win against Cassell last year isn't tallied into this.
I'll save you the trouble:
2001 Patriots 44 – Colts 13 @NE
2001 Patriots 38 - Colts 17 @IND
2003 Patriots 38 – Colts 34 @IND
2003 Patriots 24 – Colts 14 (playoffs) @NE
2004 Patriots 27 – Colts 24 @IND
2004 Patriots 20 – Colts 3 (playoffs) @NE
2005 Colts 40 – Patriots 21 @NE
2006 Colts 27 – Patriots 20 @NE
2006 Colts 38 – Patriots 34 (playoffs) @IND
2007 Patriots 24 – Colts 20 @IND
I'd take a Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman over either of these guys, any day. Oh wait, I already did. That is all.
Since when have these games been Brady beating up on Manning or the Colts. These games have always been Belichicks Defense being well prepared and making the correct adjustments (win) or not (lose). It's always Manning vs. Belichick and this year's no different.
It always good fun football to watch either way. Go Colts.
Brady will be under pressure all day and he has not faced the likes of Freeney and Co this year and they are even better this year. My prediction, Colts win and Brady gets sacked 3 times.
Footballguru, you haven't been watching Brady's O line much this year, this is a great line and they'll handle Freeny nicely, as the Pats lines of the past have. Rank, do yourself a favor and go back through the past games and see how many points Brady & Co. have laid on those Colts teams, which were no slackers on defense either. You're the only one who thinks it's Manning/Belickick and not Manning/Brady.
Yes, going to be a great game, as the Colts-Pats always are. Up for grabs but with the NE defense jelling nicely and the offense really starting to click, I'd take the Pats by 7.
Choosing who has been better between Brady and Manning and predicting who'll win Sunday's game are two totally separate arguments. Brady's postseason record - especially because of the head-to-heads with Manning and Super Bowl rings - straight dominates Manning's and thus Brady has been better. Manning's 3 regular season MVPs are nice, but don't matter as much if he doesn't do jack in the playoffs.
But looking at the recent trend of Manning and the Colts' performances, I feel like the Colts have the edge here. Manning's won three of the last four meetings and a Super Bowl in that time. Specifically looking at this season, since Manning and Brady have essentially identical stats, you gotta look at the running game, the lines, and the secondary. Both teams have injuries (the Colts secondary is depleted and the Pats had something like 6 starters sit out of practice on Wednesday) and comparable pass defenses. Freeney and Mathis make the Colts' line quicker in the pass rush, but Brady is smart with the ball and won't get sacked more than twice.
Barring one of the two QBs completely taking over the game, I see the the running game playing a huge role. Maroney is too inconsistent and Fred Taylor is an old fart. Morris sat out on Wednesday with a knee injury. With downhill-running Donald Brown returning on Sunday to accompany the shift Joseph Addai, I see the Colts and their healthy O-line having the advantage.
Colts win, 27-20
Man, I don't know who's gonna win this game, but I'm looking forward to it!
Looking at the stats for each team, they seem pretty evenly matched.
I think that the Colts will have to play better than they have the previous 2 weeks if they hope to remain unbeaten. The Pats are a big step up from the teams they have been playing (no disrespect to the Texans).
My hesitant prediction: Pats 24, Colts 21
And here's hoping for a rematch in the playoffs.
Richm2256 says: November 10, 2009 11:22 PM
"Just where are you getting the stats of 7-3 in favor of Brady, everything I find shows (not counting when Brady missed the season) that the Colts have won the last 4 out of 5 games 2 at NE turf"
Just because you can't find it, doesn't mean it's not true.
You can look up each team's record from 2001 to 2007, and see which team beat which, in which stadium (regular season and playoffs). Brady missed 2008, and this thread is about Brady vs. Manning, not Indy vs. New England, so Indy's 18-15 win against Cassell last year isn't tallied into this.
I'll save you the trouble:
2001 Patriots 44 – Colts 13 @NE
2001 Patriots 38 - Colts 17 @IND
2003 Patriots 38 – Colts 34 @IND
2003 Patriots 24 – Colts 14 (playoffs) @NE
2004 Patriots 27 – Colts 24 @IND
2004 Patriots 20 – Colts 3 (playoffs) @NE
2005 Colts 40 – Patriots 21 @NE
2006 Colts 27 – Patriots 20 @NE
2006 Colts 38 – Patriots 34 (playoffs) @IND
2007 Patriots 24 – Colts 20 @IND
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Now this link: PFTV's Week Ten game of the week, part one, will prove what I was saying all you have to do is listen and watch the info, about 42- 43 sec. into the clip.
It shows clearly for you and the rest of the pats know it all that the Colts have won 3 of the last 4 games.
So you can take your above chart and try to make up some more BS!!!!
Richm2256 says:
November 11, 2009 10:06 PM
Footballguru, you haven't been watching Brady's O line much this year, this is a great line and they'll handle Freeny nicely, as the Pats lines of the past have. Rank, do yourself a favor and go back through the past games and see how many points Brady & Co. have laid on those Colts teams, which were no slackers on defense either. You're the only one who thinks it's Manning/Belickick and not Manning/Brady.
Yes, going to be a great game, as the Colts-Pats always are. Up for grabs but with the NE defense jelling nicely and the offense really starting to click, I'd take the Pats by 7.
______
More likely, you would take 7 of the Pats up your bunghole, you New England pansy.
The argument of Brady being better than Manning has always been the same: He gets it done in the playoffs, and that his head to head record is much better...
Well, that argument worked perfectly about 5 years ago (Brady's last super bowl victory). However since that year Manning is winning the head to head battle 5-1. Since then, Manning has won a super-bowl, and Brady has lost one. In a league characterized by the term "what have you done for me lately," Manning has clearly been the more dominant quarterback.