Apart from the storm swirling around him in Cleveland, Mangini now finds himself the target of blame for the Jets' decision in April 2008 to select linebacker Vernon Gholston with the sixth overall pick in the draft.
Citing multiple unnamed sources, Rich Cimini of the New York Daily News reports that Mangini "lobbied hard" for the team to take Gholston.
"That one's on Eric," one source told Cimini.
Some were infatuated by a big game Gholston, a former Buckeye, had against Michigan's Jake Long, the first overall choice in 2008. But there was -- and still is -- talk that Gholston disappeared too many times in the film on too many other occasions.
And so it's no surprise that, 24 games into his NFL career (actually, 23; he was a healthy scratch for one game in 2008), Gholston doesn't have a single career sack.
As one player recently told Cimini regarding Gholston, "He's kind of reverting back. There's no spark, no fire. He's stiff, not too athletic, limited. I think the scouts might have been wrong."
In fairness to Mangini, it's not all his fault. By all appearances, the Patriots managed to dupe Mangini and G.M. Mike Tannenbaum into thinking that they would have picked Gholston at No. 7 if the Jets hadn't taken him at No. 6. New England's decision to trade down three spots after Gholston was off the board helped reinforce the ruse.
And so at No. 10 the Pats got linebacker Jerod Mayo, the 2008 NFL defensive rookie of the year and the new cornerstone of the team's defense.
One more example of why there has to be a rookie salary cap. Before everyone goes off on Mangini you might notice that 30 to 50% of the top ten picks every year don't turn out like they were hyped by Kyper and the other know it all pre-draft idiots.
Easy to place the blame on someone else after they leave. Mangini being the way he is just makes it easy to believe.
With the Pats talking about Gholston that kept Jets eyes off Mayo.
Ah, so it's not Mangini's fault and it's not Tannenbaum's fault... it's Bill Belichick's fault. It all makes sense now.
In three years his drafts were DREADFUL! Why would anyone in Cleveland be excited about a Mangini draft next year? Besides Revis who did he draft worth a crap? And the overwhelming majority of the picks Mangini has are 4th and later. Where are the gems he selected in later rounds?
I always assumed it was Mangini's call. Bet he really thought he was stickin it to New England! What a clown.
pats have a history of doing that to the jets.
2003 pats and jets both had 2 1st round picks. Rumors swirled of pats trading both for dewayne robertson. So the jets jumped in and got him. Robertson is out of the league, pats drafted ty warren, then used the other 1st rounder to trade for picks that became asante samual, dan koppen, and vince wilfork. Essentially 4 probowlers instead of robertson. Last year jets got gholston, pats got mayo traded back and traded into this year with extra picks and drafted their starting corner darius butler. Thats why some teams are who they are.
And I assume the Greatest Coach of All-Time (Rex Ryan) doesn't deserve any of the blame for not being able to "coach him up" and get him to produce?
Wow Florio, you suck.
Florio, do you secretly have some sort of man-crush on Mangini? I mean ALL YOU DO IS WRITE ABOUT HIM.
There are 31 other teams and head coaches, and your world revolves around Mangini.
It's really kind of sad.
So mangini blames kokinos, and tennenbaum blames mangini.
With friends like these who needs enemies.
During that draft, every team knew Gholston disapeared a lot in his college games, and only got big attention after his combine performance. Everyone knew this, and many still thaught he was a very good pick for the Jets at the time.
Mangini was not the only one making that call. The Jets organization, as a whole, have to take responsability for that. They knew the risks, took a long shot, and it didnt work. Most high draft picks dont live up to their draft position.
While Mangini was "a part" of that mistake he was definatly not alone. The Jets are just trying to make him a scapegoat for all their problems on the field. Not a good sign for the Jets.
As a Pats fan I was initially hoping that Gholston would fall to the team. The more I read about him I realized he was just a workout warrior and was not the Patriots kind of player, so I was thrilled when the Jets took him. I can only imagine how good the Jets defense would be if they had taken Mayo.
Despite the fact that Gholston's tackle numbers in his last season in college were something like 37 (which meant he made a total of like 10 tackles that season that weren't behind the LOS=very poor motor), it's highly likely that the Pats, if they had chosen Gholston, that they could have actually gotten some production out of him.
I've always thought of Gholston as more of a RDE in a 3-4... perhaps that is where his future lies... or as a short-order cook for Denny's or selling used cars.
Maybe people will get that the draft is badly over rated. It is a symtomn of what is wrong with college football. Too much hype and no REAL cred. How many upsets do you get every year? How many #Xs get beat by unranked teams.
You got top picks busting and undrafted players like Miles Austin and Tony Romo playing pro bowl quality football.
gangsterofboats says:
November 11, 2009 9:48 AM
In three years his drafts were DREADFUL! Why would anyone in Cleveland be excited about a Mangini draft next year? Besides Revis who did he draft worth a crap? And the overwhelming majority of the picks Mangini has are 4th and later. Where are the gems he selected in later rounds?
Dreadful??????? Have you ever heard of Darrelle Revis, David Harris, Debrick Furguson, Nick Mangold, Leon Washington, Dustin Keller, Nick Lowery, etc.....................
Mangini will deny he made the call on Gholston. At least that's what he's already told Lerner and Lerner believes him.
Just like he believed that Mangini was forced by Tannenbaum to name his son Brett Favre to coax him to come to New York, against his wishes.
Likely getting duped on Gholston may have spooked Mangini into giving up the #5 pick this year. (Though of course the Browns are all set at QB.)
Lest Mangini's getting too depressed this week he should keep in mind that he wasn't the first Jets GM to be duped by Belichick. His predecessor had two first round picks in 2003 and traded them both to move up to grab DeWayne Robinson at #4 when they heard that the Patriots were interested in doing the same with their two first round picks.
Instead of coming away with two starters from the first round, the Jets wound up with Robinson and a huge salary, passing on guys like Troy Polamalu, Marcus Trufant, Terrell Suggs and others for cheaper contracts.
The Patriots parlayed their two 1st round picks into Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork at much lower salaries than Robinson.
Tannenbaum looks to be trying to throw mangini under the bus again to keep his job. At 4-4, his job security isn't very solid right now. Better to blame Mangini for Gholston and take credit for good moves the Jets made.
The thing is that the spin was that Tangini was just like Belichick and Pioli at the time and both Tannebaum and Mangini made decisions together. Now that Mangini is turning into the biggest league joke and Tannebaum hanging on by a thread, all the bad moves the Jets make are Mangini's fault. Too funny.
@gangsterofboats - He drafted Ferguson (not great, not horrible), Mangold (Pro Bowler), Revis (you mentioned him - Pro Bowler), Leon Washington (Pro Bowler), Brad Smith (who has contributed to the Jets).
He also brought in Alan Faneca, Thomas Jones, and Brett Favre. All of whom made the Pro Bowl for the Jets. Before that, they hadn't had a Pro Bowler since 2005.
I'm not saying he's a great coach, but I do think he catches a little too much flack sometimes. I thought he brought in some pretty decent personnel in NY. It's not a fantastic draft record, but I hardly think it's horrible.
BTW, the Pats have duped the Jets into drafting two of their biggest first round busts in recent years. First Dewayne Robertson and then Vernon Gholston. And let's not forget them stupidily stealing Mangini away from the Pats after one unimpressive season as defensive coordinator.
The Jets obsession with the Pats has been one of their biggest downfalls.
Hahahaha, of course the Jets are going to claim everything wrong with the Jets is Mangini's fault. He's the easiest target since he no longer works there. Im sorry but didn't the GM there have final say on everything? Mr.Tanenbaum? I believe he does which means Gholston is on him.
"It's been a bad week for Browns coach Eric Mangini."
More like the last 2 years.
Good thing they didn't take a strong armed QB like Joe Flacco. They drafted another softy thrower in Sanchez. He has the same limitations as Sir Chad.
Mangenius has been thrown under the bus some many times that the bus is already on its second set of shocks ... and rightfully so. He has been quick to throw anyone and everyone under the bus to protect his ass. In terms of his own accountability, he has shown none at all. What an A$$ Bag.
As much as I dislike Mangini, this seems to be piling on. The Jets have scouts. They have a GM. They also knew the Patriots put a lot of misinformation out there before the draft. They hit big on Revis. Are we now going to hear that Mangini actually opposed that draft pick? Hey, Mangini was and is a failure. But it's not necessary reaching on something like this to point out that Mangini is incompetent.
brasho,
DE's in the 3-4 alignment are usually about 6'5" and 300 pounds...I guess that's why you're not running a team.
Here's some logic I don't understand. If a team doesn't scout their pick properly and he busts this is an argument towards a rookie salary slotting system. Um, why? Teams should get protection against making bad decisions? This seems to go counter to the concept of competition. What do they want to do? Genericize the drafting process so people can't fail? How about taking it the next step and making the rules selectively enforceable so refs can keep games tight? Or better yet, replace all scouts and personnel people with software that picks players using the same algorithm for everyone? Come on. When does this stupid idea meet reality?
The reason for a rookie salary slotting system has nothing to do with protecting teams from bad decisions. It has to do with creating rationality in the salary disparity between proven players and rookies who haven't done a thing. It has to do with ensuring a predictable, non-agent controlled expense. It has to do with stopping pointless holdouts. But protecting teams from being stupid? I don't think so.
Mangini failed with his pick of Gholsten for the same reasons he's failing in Cleveland. He puts form over substance, and he thinks (with a self-belief that borders on the absurd) he can make things happen via dramatically pompous declaration. He's got it all wrong and a system which would prevent him from failing goes against the basic concept of competition. Also giving Belichick responsibility for Tannenbaum's and Mangini's decision is also nonsense. Nobody made them make their choice, they did it on their own. They were unable to correctly analyze the available evidence and they made a bad choice. This is an indictment of their judgment. BB's actions were just gamesmanship knowing that they may take the bait. If their decisions were based solely on BB's kabuki theatre act then neither of them should be in pro football and you would think this would have become apparent to everyone a long time ago.
I don't think the Patriots feigning interest in him could "dupe" the Jets into taking him. Sure, it may have kept them from trading down a few spots with the hopes of getting him later, but if the Jets didn't like him, they wouldn't have taken him. You don't draft a guy just to keep your nemesis from taking him. You draft him if he's a good fit for your team.
Nice trick play by the Pats. Belichick said they were going into the draft wanting either Mayo or Rogers-Cromartie, probably that's why they were able to trade down to 10 without running the risk of not getting either of the two. Mayo worked out quite well, and Rogers-Cromartie would have been a worthy pick as well:)
Even though as a Pats fan I am not very fond of Mangini, I think the way he gets beaten up currently isn't really justified. He is one of the smarter defensive coaches in the league, maybe at this time not a good HC, but give him a chance. Not so long ago he was known as Mangenius ...
Is Gholston actually done??
What's the deal with Ohio State defensive first rounders, particularly high picks, flopping in the NFL?
I wonder which will happen first : Vernon Gholston gets his first NFL sack or Ratgini gets sacked and tossed out of Cleveland ?
It's not exactly fair to roast Mangini alone over Vernon Gholston. After all, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, and Mike Mayock all graded him top-10. It only shows what a crap shoot the NFL draft is, and why there needs to be a rookie salary cap.
If you watched Gholston in college, for the most part he had one move - a bull rush. You can bull rush college tackles on a regular basis because they aren't as strong, but in the NFL you need more bullets in your chamber than that.
I know people sometimes compare him to Mike Mamula. It is totally unfair to Mamula. Mamula never lived up to his draft position, but he had a few solid years. Gholston hasn't even had a few solid games so far.
Tannenbaum is accountable for this pick equally. He is the one who screwed most of the teams below him as he tend to always overpay the draft picks. He needs to get out of the J.E.T.S
Vernon, don't worry you are going to play against my team (The Jags) this week with a decent offensive line and a QB who holds the ball too long and locks on to one receiver Mike Sims-Walker who is going to be covered by the all-pro CB Revis, you have a better shot in getting your first Sack this week. If you still don't, I would be shocked and I would agree with Florio and many others that you are a bust.
Hey, at least we're interesting off the field. Sundays are the worst days of the week for Browns fans. The rest of the week is usually pretty fun!
I'm not a Pats fan, but you have to hand it to them--they make very shrewd personnel moves. They also trade good but older players (Seymour, Branch) for top draft picks and keep the dynasty going.
The so-called draft experts like Kiper and Shay miss a lot of the time, especially with players from small schools. Kiper had Jags rookie Derek Cox from William and Mary (who is a solid starting corner this year) ranked the 107th best corner in the draft. Really, Mel?
Mangini was the scape goat for the Jets 2008 season. And apparently he is going to keep being the scape goat until the Jets win a superbowl. It wasn't his fault Favre's arm got injured. He had the Jets looking like legitimate superbowl contenders until that. Think the Jets firing him was far too much of a knee jerk reaction and Im not sold on Rex Ryan being a good head coach. He's great for the media which is why they NEVER criticize him, because he is always good for a quote and a story. Mangini doesn't like to tell the media anything so he is easily villified and trashed. Ive never in my life seen the collective media go after someone so harshly as I've seen them go after Mangini from da y 1 of him being hired in Cleveland. It's rediculous really. Where are all the negative stories about Spagnuolo or Morris or Schwartz or Haley? They all get a pass so that the media can focus in on destroying Eric Mangini.
Mangini is like George W. Bush. He'll be blamed for everything as long as they can get away with it.
Tannenbaum is only exceeded by Thompson at Green Bay in the Ripleys Believe It Or Not? category for GM longevity. A total screw up, doubly so since Christmas Tree's presence in NY prevented the Jets from landing a whale (Cowher), forcing them to settle on an overstuffed gerbil, Ryan, instead.
As a Jets fan, I think people were too hard on Mangini. Everyone always mentions the 1 pick that didn't pan out for us in Gholsotn. No one ever talks about the other home grown stars we ave now, that he drafted. Revis, David Harris, Nick Mangold, D'Brick, Keller. These are all guys that already are, or soon will be, pro bowlers. I am not sure if Leon Washington, and Kerry Rhodes were drafted by.
@ VonClausewitz says:
"Here's some logic I don't understand. If a team doesn't scout their pick properly and he busts this is an argument towards a rookie salary slotting system. Um, why? Teams should get protection against making bad decisions? This seems to go counter to the concept of competition. What do they want to do? Genericize the drafting process so people can't fail?"
You can scout perfectly and the guy can still bust or get a career ending injury. When that happens the club is stuck w/ a hugh salary cap problem that keeps them from being able to replace the overpaid draftee.
It's Mangini's fault the economy is in shambles!!!
I know first hand that many scouts talked about Gholston being MIA in so many plays, and though he was phsyically talented, he did not have the heart or motivation to be a pro bowler in the NFL. Mangini screwed up that pick in NY and then gets to the Browns and a month before the draft fires 2 of his more senior scouts?? Just throws away 11 months of work from two scouts and does not replace them until after the draft?? Mangini is an idiot, if he were smart he would have done it after the draft as both of them were under contract anyway!!
BTW, both of these scouts were picked up by winning organizations, one of them being the Colts (Kevin Kelly - who found undrafted Joshua Cribbs).
@Buschman says:
November 11, 2009 10:28 AM
"You don't draft a guy just to keep your nemesis from taking him. You draft him if he's a good fit for your team.
____________________________________________
No, no, no, no, no...The Jets absolutely are obsessed with NE and have taken it to a level of irrational action. That's why they'll never contend - they worry more about trying to screw the Pats than they do fixing their own issues. Even that dick Chilly in Minny is obsessed with BB drafts. That's how that bald headed, cross-dressing creep try to put himself on BB's level figuring if he can tell everyone how he (dubiously) screwed BB in the draft that would make him a big wheel. Teams (and coaches) like that who obsess about the other guys will never go anywhere in this league.
# GoBrowns19 says: November 11, 2009 11:06 AM
Hey, at least we're interesting off the field. Sundays are the worst days of the week for Browns fans. The rest of the week is usually pretty fun!
-------------------------------------------------------
That was funny.
Why are Browns fans always so witty and Steeler fans always so stupid?
Mangini "lobbied hard"?
Who had the OFFICIAL final say in draft picks for the Jets at that time?
If it was Mangini, then Gholston was his fault and this story is acurate (enough).
If Mangini lobbied, but didn't have official final say, then PFT is ONCE AGAIN exposed for another hack job on it's favorite target lately.
I have a pretty good feeling it's the latter.
What's next- Florio shows up in Berea to threaten Mangini for his milk money? Christ...
So Mangini picks one big bust in 3 years, he still drafted:
Darelle Revis
David Harris
Chansi Stuckey (who started this year until the trade)
Dustin Keller
Dwight Lowery
D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Nick Mangold
Brad Smith
Leon Washington
many of which make up the core of the Jets today.
What garbage. I do not blame either Cimini for reporting this or Florio for running with it, but what nonsense to blame Mangini for personnel decisions. Last I checked, Tannenbaum was GM and Mangini the coach. Even if Mangini, begged, borrowed, pleaded or said he would quit if Tannenbaum didn't select Gholston, figuring out who to pick is what the GM and scouting functions are for. The Tannenbaum record is mediocre. While he has drafted up some good and very good players in Revis, Ferguson, Mangold, Harris, Washington and Rhodes, for instance, nearly all work has been done in the 1st, 2nd and 4th rounds. And Gholston wasn't the only first round bust -- remember the packaging of picks to get Robertson.
Mangini is getting waaaay too much flack here, to the point where I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. I suspect that the real reason he gets so much crap is that he ignores the media. And let's be honest, the media and these "journalists" are like a bunch of teenage girls. If you ignore them, they manufacture rumors to get back at you for giving them the cold shoulder.
The fact is, we keep hearing over and over again that Mangini alienates players, but have yet to hear one player speak out against him (please correct me if I'm wrong here). It's getting absurd. Now he's getting burned for one bad draft pick out of how many?! The only two teams that can say they've drafted very well in the first round the past 5 years are the Steelers and New England (even Maroney is kind of a bust). And of course, he gets no credit for picking the best cover corner in the NFL right now.
What boggles my mind is that he even gets crap for the good moves he makes. Trading down in the draft to save the Browns tons of money was a great move. Mark Sanchez doesn't look like a franchise QB right now, while Alex Mack looks like a 10 year Pro-Bowler. Braylon Edwards for a 3rd rounder (possibly second if he wasn't terrible) and a 5th? The Jets have been super successful since that trade, right? Kellen Winslow for Massaquoi and a 5th rounder in 2010. Another good move.
His inability to relate to the media is probably ultimately going to cost him his job, which is a shame because he never really got a fair shake.