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Mangini knew about Quinn's incentives

Late last night (technically, early this morning), we posted a quote from a CBS interview of coach Eric Mangini during which the embattled football boss claimed not to know the terms of the incentives in his new/old starting quarterback’s contract.

The key here is the tense of the verb that Mangini selected.  Leaving no room for ambiguity as to the possibility that he perhaps didn’t know about the $10.9 million in future escalators tied to taking 70 percent of the snaps this season, Mangini said “I don’t know” — not “didn’t” or “hadn’t” or “couldn’t” or “wouldn’t.”

At the time, we didn’t elaborate all that much given the ridiculous nature of claim.  And because it was really late.  (Technically, really early.)  Instead, we concluded simply that Mangini is lying or incompetent.  (Some of you have pointed out that “and” should have been included as an option, too.)

On reflection, we’re convinced he’s lying.  For starters, we know that he reads PFT.  And we’ve mentioned Quinn’s contractual incentives and escalators throughout training camp and the regular season.

There’s also specific evidence that Mangini knows.

Last week, owner Randy Lerner was asked whether the escalators were a factor in Quinn’s Week Three benching.  Lerner didn’t say, “What escalators?”  Instead, Lerner said “[n]one at all.”

And as one of our more loyal readers points out, Mangini was asked about the impact of the escalator in August, while he was still trying to figure out whether Quinn or Anderson would be the Week One starter.

Not one bit,” Mangini said in response to whether Quinn’s escalators would influence the decision.

If the Lerner is trying to stiff G.M. George Kokinis simply because Kokinis eventually was worn down by Mangini’s apparent efforts to dominate the team’s personnel decisions, Mangini might already have said enough to get himself fired with cause, too.

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53 Responses to “Mangini knew about Quinn's incentives”
  1. BernardPollardIsAnAss says: Nov 11, 2009 8:47 AM

    This guy is one giant costco-sized douche. Bill Belichick should be collecting at least half of every paycheck this guy has seen in the last four years.

  2. chapnasty says: Nov 11, 2009 8:47 AM

    What will test the Leauge again is how they deal with this. Clearly this is a violation of some kind and he should be punished if not fired. Let’s see if the NFL does something fair for once.

  3. Lex Luger says: Nov 11, 2009 8:49 AM

    All that time working with Belichick made him think he’s a good liar.
    Personally, I think the best thing you could do if you were a Browns fan is completely and uttterly boycott the team.
    Dont go to games, dont buy merchandise, hell, dont support the sponsors that advertise with the browns, cause obviously your owner and Coach are pieces of crap.

  4. The Coop says: Nov 11, 2009 8:52 AM

    Mangini reads PFT?
    Florio, I think it’s YOU who is lying or incompetent.

  5. Jackazimuth says: Nov 11, 2009 8:53 AM

    Mangini is clearly lying about Quinn’s incentives. It may be the case that the incentives played no role in the benching, if Quinn had played well, or even just average, he would have stayed on the field. But for Mangini to claim he “didn’t know” about the escalators is disingenuous at best and most likely just flat out BS.

  6. crex43 says: Nov 11, 2009 8:55 AM

    But we’re still talking about the Cleveland Browns here, so you didn’t really rule out incompetent.

  7. chapnasty says: Nov 11, 2009 8:58 AM

    What’s sad is that he can easily make the argument that he did know about it but after the success or limited success of Quinn as the starter, it was in the teams best intererst to go in a different direction. I swear, problems become far more limited when you just admit things and tell the truth.

  8. sevenirongator says: Nov 11, 2009 9:03 AM

    Someone should dispatch Tom Cable to look into this immediately, and then that lying bastard will know what’s up! Because Tom Cable will punch liars in the mouth*
    *said through clinched teeth and a scowl

  9. Pastabelly says: Nov 11, 2009 9:09 AM

    Mangini has no quarterback. He could have traded Quinn and drafted Sanchez. He is truly a lying incompetent douche.

  10. trickbunny says: Nov 11, 2009 9:09 AM

    Is the “news” on this site written by fat, high school aged girls who have been rejected?
    … ’cause it suuuuuurrre seems like it.

  11. PFFFFT says: Nov 11, 2009 9:12 AM

    Of course he knew. Just like he knew that the Browns were going to be worse than God awful. Kudos for Mangina for pulling a Kramer and falling ass backward into a cush gig, but it sucks for The Dawg Pound. Two years from now Mangina will be hawking pro football picks on infomercials at 2 in the morning — no one will hire him to coach football because no one will take his Pillsbury Doughboy-ass seriously, especially players.

  12. leatherneck says: Nov 11, 2009 9:13 AM

    This Cleveland Browns team, with all of the talent they have, all of the stars, all of the amazing players, and incredible athletic talent, they could win the Super Bowl this year. It’s all the coaches’ fault. (Sarcasm)
    The bottom line is this. Brady Quinn in no way deserves $10.9 million. Quinn will probably never be a good NFL quarterback.
    Mangini didn’t negotiate Quinn’s contract. It’s Mangini’s job to play Quinn while not saddling the Browns with a ridiculous bonus payment to Quin.
    This reminds me of 2005-2006 with the Vikings. Daunte Culpepper played poorly and then had that tragic injury. He did not deserve the $10 million bonus payment he was scheduled to receive because his play when healthy did not merit it. He wouldn’t even cooperate with the new coach in rehabilitation. Instead of cutting him, Childress managed to trade Culpepper for a draft pick. Another team, the Dolphins, picked up the generous bonus. That was a difficult, but necessary move that the Vikings had to make.
    Maybe Mangini lied, and that would be bad, but that is just dealing with the media. I strongly dislike the media and if they get lied to, that is almost enough to make me smile.
    The Cleveland Browns main problem is the lack of talent on the team. Worse, the Browns had a number of malcontents like Braylon and Kellen. Nobody could solve all that in one year.

  13. Dawgpound2009 says: Nov 11, 2009 9:14 AM

    The sooner the Browns take this buffoon and toss him into Lake Erie wearing cement cleats and a lead whistle the better! He is a putrid football coach and an even worse liar. I cannot wait till he uses the ” I am not a crook” line in a press conference.

  14. rydendonkeys says: Nov 11, 2009 9:22 AM

    Even guys that were in Cleve for a week think the dude is crazy, and say that Cleve is a toxic place to be right now. Nate Jackson went to town on Mangini on the radio yesterday.

  15. borg says: Nov 11, 2009 9:24 AM

    Both QBs are dreadful….Mangini knows it, Lerner knows it. Two bad business decisions have been made. Both men are limiting losses. Mangini has acted as a loyal employee and made sound organizational choices with the future in mind. What’s the issue…Should he continue paying bad players? Or should he be honest and say….”Yes Quinn sucks, and we benched him because we don’t want to continue paying weak armed QBs, but we are starting him now because he now has a chance to earn the money he has already sucked out of this organization.” Coaches lie….and PFT reconstructs other reporters’ works and floats it as rumors…. Glass houses…right Florio

  16. LewD says: Nov 11, 2009 9:25 AM

    Mangini said he didn’t know what the performance incentives were … not that Quinn didn’t have them…
    It would be interesting to know the percentage of players that have incentives included in their contract language and also what is the average number of incentives per NFL contract …..
    He probably is lying, but has probably been directed from above on how to save the organization some cash this year as it is obvious they aren’t going anywhere …. well maybe he is …

  17. jackbauerqb1 says: Nov 11, 2009 9:26 AM

    Maybe he meant “I don’t know” …..about the specifics of his incentives.
    Both Browns QB’s stink, however to think that there is always some kind of conspiracy theory, is somewhat paranoid.

  18. C.Bass says: Nov 11, 2009 9:32 AM

    I never thought the clowns could hire a worse coach than Butch Davis. Lerner proved me wrong.
    Randy Lerner is the new Mike Brown. The son of a legend who is completely clueless on how to run an NFL team.
    On a side note: the funny thing is browns fans hate Modell and love Al Lerner when Lerner helped force Modell out. Lerner knew his only way to own the browns was for Modell to move them and then take the replacement team. So the richest guy in Cleveland secretly screwed Modell (the guy had billions but couldn’t help Modell???). Modell moved. Lerner got new team. Modell wins Superbowl. Ozzie keeps Ravens competitive.
    Lerner jinxed the Browns people.

  19. wrath4771 says: Nov 11, 2009 9:33 AM

    Mangini is just a scumbag. Of course he knew about the escalators – either that he relaly is that incompetent. Quinn didn’t even get two full games (I believe) and was benched. I can’t think of any other young, first time starting quarterback to get the hook that quick. I feel bad for Browns fans, but I hope Mangini gets everything he deserves.

  20. Jackazimuth says: Nov 11, 2009 9:33 AM

    On top of all this, the CBS piece was basically a fluff article designed to “humanize” Mangini. Instead, he puts his foot in his mouth and all anyone wants to talk about is how Mangini is a liar. I wonder if this is one of those “give a man a hammer and everything becomes a nail” situations? Or is Mangini really just a nail? Does he have a shiny head? What’s the deal with this tool? Why can’t my Browns just show up and play football!!!???

  21. BigDawgGottaEat says: Nov 11, 2009 9:35 AM

    I mean don’t get me wrong, there is something going on with Mangini, maybe he really is a first class asshole, I dunno. The guy has to be under a tremendous amount of stress just by virtue of being a head coach of a struggling team, stress only compounded by all the media criticism he gets. Jury is still out on this guy, he has not been given any semblance of a fair amount of time to figure it all out. Time will tell, and he deserves a little more of it before everyone rushes off to hang him from the gallows.
    Furthermore, I think what this is indicative of is Florio’s pathetic obsession with publicly proving Mangini wrong. Florio truly is a conniving little rat.

  22. Florio-is-a-tool says: Nov 11, 2009 9:35 AM

    Mangini is the one who drafted Gholston because he just knew Belichick was willing to trade up and draft him. In the very least the Man-genius is incompetent and a fool. If there is a god (and there isn’t) then this is his last paying football gig in a long time.

  23. sammm says: Nov 11, 2009 9:36 AM

    Wake up Mr. Lerner…this guy is a cancer to your/our team.
    Trades away the little bit of talent we had and brings in his former players (Jets) who drank his Kool-Aid.
    Ax him!

  24. Football Fan says: Nov 11, 2009 9:39 AM

    The Coop,
    I know several people around the NFL and all of them read this website. Florio is not lying at all that Mangini reads. I would bet he does read. I would say that 90 percent of those in personnel around the NFL read this site. I heard a coach talk about PFT during training camp one day this year when I was visiting. They all read and if they say they don’t then I think they are lying.

  25. SmackMyVickUp says: Nov 11, 2009 9:43 AM

    Quinn isn’t playing well enough to deserve the incentives, no reason to play him.
    If Quinn put up great numbers in the short time he played this might be a story, but he didn’t offer much more of a chance than Anderson to win a game.

  26. Scott P says: Nov 11, 2009 9:44 AM

    If Mangini gets canned, Dan Snyder should hire him. Those two are meant for each other.

  27. Twiz says: Nov 11, 2009 9:47 AM

    I’m thinking that no matter what happens to Mangini at this point, Lord Florio needs to be the one to step up to the plate next…..
    Lord Florio claims to “know” that Mangini reads PFT, its time for him to put up or shut up.

  28. Tinbender says: Nov 11, 2009 10:01 AM

    You can’t blame Mangini for lying, he has a staff infection in his brain.

  29. sripan says: Nov 11, 2009 10:04 AM

    florio u r a tool ,opening up new threads based on user’s comments, way to go buddy and looks like u still didnt had yur coffee …

  30. fish0462 says: Nov 11, 2009 10:10 AM

    Wow Floria you have finally made it enough for Collin Cowherd to open up with his show with him making you look like an idiot and calling you out personally. hahaha

  31. Opie says: Nov 11, 2009 10:10 AM

    “On reflection, we’re convinced he’s lying. For starters, we know that he reads PFT. And we’ve mentioned Quinn’s contractual incentives and escalators throughout training camp and the regular season.”
    Cornflorio woke up feeling a bit “randy” this morning. Not for nothing, but I would assume that most coaches have more important things to get done than read this.
    Football Fan: knowing “several” people “around” the NFL is far different than extrapolating it to 90% readership. Just because you know some folks in the ticket dept. who read this while on their down time, certainly doesn’t mean that the head coaches read. I’m not saying that many folks don’t, but just casually mentioning that you’ve got the inside scoop into 32 NFL teams personnel dept. is foolish at best.
    Saying all that, I hope they do read this stuff. That would explain some of the dumb ass decisions that are made throughout the year….

  32. johnnydom says: Nov 11, 2009 10:11 AM

    Time to as they say”pay the man” make Mangoofball go away.
    Bring in someone who can right the Titanic which is the Browns. It pains me to say that but truth be told, he has killed this team.
    Bring in Holmgren quick.

  33. BasicInstinct says: Nov 11, 2009 10:13 AM

    It is Lerner’s fault. It is Lerner’s fault. It is Lerner’s fault. All this crap starts at the top.
    He is officially in the Dan Snyder club of owners.
    He has the team he created. It is his mess. Crud tends to gravitate to him.
    Mangini is already with Snyder. But his last name is Lerner.

  34. Furious George says: Nov 11, 2009 10:16 AM

    so, he’s a liar AND a cheater. boy, who would have thought that? was there any doubt after he and tannenbaum couldnt get their stories straight about getting caught taping the Pats at Foxboro?
    this guy deserves everything coming to him.

  35. JoeSixPack says: Nov 11, 2009 10:16 AM

    Mangini took two NFL QBs with decent trade value and destroyed the confidence and trade value of both QBs with his handling of the QB situation.
    He owns that. No one else can be blamed.
    But although Anderson was terrible I understood that Mangini understood he’d hurt Quinn’s trade value even more by triggering a $6 million salary increase.
    Turns out I was giving Mangini too much credit. Every Cleveland fan knew about the escalator clause… every reader here knew about it.
    But Mangini did not. And emphatically says so with no ambiguity in that PR puff piece.
    I’d agree that if Lerner is looking to weasel out of Mangini’s contract “with cause” this PR puff piece gives him all the ammunition he needs.

  36. derrick thiele says: Nov 11, 2009 10:22 AM

    Of coarse he knew. Look at it from a statistical angle. Based on someone elses post (I didn’t have time to double check the numbers) brady has played in 128 out of 463 snaps. If we double the 463 snaps (for an approximate 16 game season) and divide that by the 70% that he would need to participate in it would come out to 649 snaps.
    If he plays in every game for the rest of the season and they get the same 463 snaps that they had for the first eight games that would mean that he would have had to play in 186 snaps in the first eight games. If he would have played in one more game of approximately 58 snaps (463/8) he would have 186 snaps in the first eight games which would come out to exactly 70% of the snaps
    Interesting huh?

  37. Pastabelly says: Nov 11, 2009 10:29 AM

    @Florio is a tool wrote:
    “Mangini is the one who drafted Gholston because he just knew Belichick was willing to trade up and draft him.”
    How did Mangini know that? Does Belichick normally telegraph his moves? Mangini may be a douche. He’s no idiot. He had no clue what players Belichick was interested in. Even if he did, he’s not stupid enough to draft someone just because someone else wants him.

  38. Florio's T-bagger says: Nov 11, 2009 10:30 AM

    Don’t flatter yourself Florio. Mangini doesn’t read this rag rumor mill. And now trying to justify the lie by saying it was the “tense” he used? Amazing.

  39. doublefishhook says: Nov 11, 2009 10:33 AM

    Mangini needs to trade his headset back in for the white and red checkered overalls of his previous job…as the mascot for Big Boy

  40. Whododrums says: Nov 11, 2009 10:57 AM

    My question would be does anyone think that Quinn should be starting over Anderson?
    I thought it was the coaches job to make decisions and to give their team the best chance at winning, Quinn certainly displayed the inability to do just that. So no matter what the contract said I believe he would of been benched by every coach in the NFL.

  41. GoBrowns19 says: Nov 11, 2009 11:04 AM

    whododrums…it’s dicey because both have sucked this year. I agreed with starting Anderson at first, but it is evident now that we might as well let Quinn try and be our QB of the future the rest of this season. Saves us having t draft one. If he goes in and is 3-17 for 31 yards, it’s actually an upgrade, so if Mango doesn’t play him now that the 70% of snaps is almost unreachable. That almost is key, because if Quinn has alot of long, sustained drives, he can still reach that. Who knows, maybe that was the plan all along.

  42. wingnut56 says: Nov 11, 2009 11:12 AM

    Every football fan in Cleveland knew about the incentives in Quinn’s contract – it’s been published time and time again. For Mangini to claim that he didn’t know makes him look like an even bigger idiot.
    A lillte honesty would have went a long way for Mangini. All he had to say was “I made a mistake starting Quinn and we will win just as many games with Anderson”. No, that would have been too easy for “Super Secret” Mangini. If he had any clue before the season started that both quarterbcaks would perform this poorly, why did he give up the chance for Sanchez, or at least go after a veteran until next year?
    He could has easily dumped Quinn before the season as he had no control over the roster that Crennel and Savage left him.

  43. Fuschu Mang says: Nov 11, 2009 11:16 AM

    “Is the “news” on this site written by fat, high school aged girls who have been rejected?
    … ’cause it suuuuuurrre seems like it.”
    Your post reads like a middle aged, crisis having tech geek who still thinks themselves “hip” cause they fancy themselves a “rocker/punker”… noshing Lil Debbie rolls and Cheetos while takin in “Legend of the Seeker”. My guess is your biggest fan is some sharp old granny who finds you clever…when she hands you your dollar on your 42nd birthday.
    Wadda you say, am I in the ball park chuckles?

  44. CKL says: Nov 11, 2009 11:20 AM

    # rydendonkeys says: November 11, 2009 9:22 AM
    Even guys that were in Cleve for a week think the dude is crazy, and say that Cleve is a toxic place to be right now. Nate Jackson went to town on Mangini on the radio yesterday.
    I looked for that podcast on 104.3 like you commented on the other post and I don’t see it up. I would love to hear that one.

  45. Your comment submission failed for the following reasons: Registration is required. says: Nov 11, 2009 12:04 PM

    I’m the first one that wants to see Mangini thrown out on his ass.
    But all this Quinn-escalator-conspiracy stuff? It’s rubbish.
    Of course Mangini knew.
    If his goal was to avoid the salary escalators, DA would have been the starter from day one. It’s not like Quinn won the job in camp, neither QB was dominant.
    This whole conspiracy thing doesn’t wash. It’s purely revisionist, and requires us to ignore the first three weeks of the season.

  46. Mongo says: Nov 11, 2009 12:27 PM

    @ Florio’s T-bagger says:
    Don’t flatter yourself Florio. Mangini doesn’t read this rag rumor mill. And now trying to justify the lie by saying it was the “tense” he used? Amazing.
    If this is such a rag, why are you wasting your time reading it. People need to get off Florio’s case. If you don’t think much of the site then you are an idiot for utilizing it.

  47. Asswipe Johnson (Pronounced Az-Wee-Pay) says: Nov 11, 2009 12:33 PM

    Mangini knew about Global Warming and refused to tell Al Gore!!!

  48. Richm2256 says: Nov 11, 2009 1:42 PM

    “Mangini knew about Global Warming and refused to tell Al Gore!!!”
    That’s why Gore invented the Internet, to find out what Mangini was hiding about it.

  49. JoeSixPack says: Nov 11, 2009 1:43 PM

    @ Florio’s T-bagger says: And now trying to justify the lie by saying it was the “tense” he used? Amazing.
    Florio’s T-bagger – try to comprehend… you should WANT Mangini to be lying on this one
    If Mangini isn’t lying, then he really doesn’t know know the details of Quinn’s contract. He didn’t say “I didn’t know back then. ” He said “I do not know”[the details of Quinn’s contract]
    If he’s telling the truth that would give Lerner the opportunity to fire him with cause, and not have to pay a cent of Mangnini’s remaining contract.
    Mangini can pick his poison.

  50. trickbunny says: Nov 11, 2009 4:03 PM

    Fuschu Mang says:
    November 11, 2009 11:16 AM
    Your post reads like a middle aged, crisis having tech geek who still thinks themselves “hip” cause they fancy themselves a “rocker/punker”… noshing Lil Debbie rolls and Cheetos while takin in “Legend of the Seeker”. My guess is your biggest fan is some sharp old granny who finds you clever…when she hands you your dollar on your 42nd birthday.
    Wadda you say, am I in the ball park chuckles?
    Oh yeah, *way* in the ballpark. Practically standing on home plate!
    Let’s see, I *am* 42, so I guess you could consider that middle-aged. I feel it physically, but mentally I think my development was arrested around 19. Sometimes that’s a good thing, other times bad.
    I don’t consider myself “hip” because I’m well aware that most people my age are not “hip”. I stopped trying long ago, ha ha. Do I consider myself a “rocker/punker”? No, I consider myself a “person”.
    I don’t like Little Debbies ’cause that shit is cheap and dry. Don’t like Cheetos either. Much more of a potato chip type.
    Tech geek? Hardly. My job is techy, but outside of my job, I don’t think I could program a drum machine. I tend to leave my work at work.
    I’ve heard of “Legend of the Seeker”, but am not hip enough to know what it is. I’m guessing it’s a movie, since people don’t “take in” video games. I thought maybe it was a video game.
    I have no idea who the “granny” is. Maybe my ex-girlfriend who was 13 years older than me? Doubt it though. We broke up 10 years ago.
    I’ve been using the “trickbunny” handle on about a million websites for over 10 years, so I’m not the hardest person to figure out the identity of for that reason alone. I commend you on the fact that you know how to use Google. You da man. Here’s a cookie. Yawn.
    So is the fact that you know something about me supposed to.. what? Make me think differently about what I post here or something?

  51. SF Saints Fan says: Nov 11, 2009 10:07 PM

    derrick thiele:
    I am the guy who did the statistical analysis (I double checked my numbers) of how many snaps Quinn would need. I also looked into the total snaps through four games taken by the Patriots, Saints, Vikings and Colts and determined that those four QB would have no shot at getting the number of snaps Quinn needs to get his bonus at 70%. And if they couldn’t get enough snaps, then Quinn would have no shot.
    The Browns were well aware of the bonus and waited until they were absolutely certain that Quinn had no chance whatsoever of getting to 70% of the offensive snaps for the season. If they had made the move one or two games ago it may have been possible, but with only eight games left it is next to impossible.
    Anderson has sucked for weeks and Quinn has gotten screwed. But, in a way, he only has himself to blame because he was terrible in those first two and a half games.

  52. MasterShake says: Nov 11, 2009 10:27 PM

    What the hell was the posts by “trickbunny & Fuschu Mang” were all about? Was that two gay guys fighting or coming on to each other via blog?
    What’s wrong with you Cleveland? Jesus H. Christ!

  53. Fuschu Mang says: Nov 12, 2009 7:31 PM

    “So is the fact that you know something about me supposed to.. what? Make me think differently about what I post here or something?”
    1trickbunny –
    Nopers…just make you actually fire a neuron before posting. So…thanks for dancing monkey. Good boy!

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