As the first true franchise quarterback (supposedly) for the Bears since Sid Luckman is generating a performance more similar to those of most of the team's quarterbacks since then, the father of one of the recently failed signal-callers is sounding off.
"It's a self-perpetuating problem that is not Jay Cutler's fault," Dan Grossman tells Fred Mitchell of the Chicago Tribune. "It's not
Rex Grossman's fault. It's not Kyle Orton's
fault. It's not every other quarterback who has been through that
system's fault. It's the fault of the organization for not
understanding what a quarterback needs."
Rex Grossman, a first-round pick in 2003, was not re-signed after his contract expired in late February. In June, Grossman signed with the Texans. He currently holds the second spot on the Houston depth chart.
"What's amazing to me is, here we go again with Jay Cutler," Dan Grossman said. "He came in
and he was going to be the franchise quarterback and lead the Bears. I
heard some people say they were going to the Super Bowl this year. And
here we are, back in the situation where . . . because the team is not
really built around a passing game, he has struggled. I don't really
blame it on Jay Cutler."
Dan Grossman, who played quarterback at Indiana University in the 1960s, thinks that the Bears need to get with the times and shed their commitment to the run.
"I believe that the NFL is a passing league," Dan Grossman said. "It has been for the last 20 years. Chicago continues to use the phrase, at least Lovie Smith continues to use the phrase, 'We get off the bus running.' They need to
abandon that concept. Running is obviously a very important part of the
offense. But the best teams in this league are prolific passing teams.
"And for a team to be effective at passing, in my opinion, you
have to build your offense around your quarterback. You have to commit
to the quarterback: 'You're our guy.'
"You don't bring your quarterback in and say: 'We're going to get off
the bus running. But on third-and-10, you've got to come through for us
now!'"
There's more. But that's the gist of it.
And it's hard to argue with him.
Of course, none of this means his son isn't a human turnover machine.
Rex Grossman's dad lets Bears have it
Posted by Mike Florio on November 17, 2009 10:46 AM ET
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so was it the Bears fault he failed? Was it the Bears fault he threw all those interceptions? Bears signed him to 1 year deal 3 million dollars to prove himself... and he failed.
Lovie Smith should work at a gas station. Knows nothing about coaching.
So is it's the Texans system that keeps Rex from starting? Or was it the Bears system who made it difficult for Rex to handle a snap?
Whats up with this clown?
He's right, Da Bears haven't had a truly great QB since Luckman...who retired in the 1940s. Same problem the Steelers had under Cowher, who won the SB in 2005 despite Cowher, not because of him.
Cowher (just like his mentor Schottenheimer) didn't understand you need a playmaker at the QB position in case the running game doesn't work. Cowher inflicted Neil O'Donnel, Bubby Brister, Mike Tomczak, Kordell Stewart, Jim Smith, and Tommy Maddox on us...great defense and great running game didn't get the Steelers to the SB, though.
Forio, enough with the torpedoes. You shouldn’t be calling out peoples kids when you write a column about them. You may make me stop reading this site. You should be ashamed.
Right, it just means that Jay Cutler is too.
"You have to commit to the QB."
Oh, that's rich. How many times did I hear "Rex Grossman is our quarterback."? Talk about commitment.
I'm sure Dan's having fun piling on (IU? Isn't that a community college football program?) the Bears, but they have committed to Jay long-term. They committed to Rex too, who never improved. You don't need a team built around you to work on your footwork and fundamentals, Dan.
Jay cost two first-rounders and is signed through 2013. They're committed. It will come.
Peyton Manning would regress in this system. Cutler already has. I'm a Lions fan (another topic) in the Chicago area, and I couldn't agree more. And, years ago, if you ever told me I'd be agreeing with Rex Grossman's dad...
It's hard to argue with Papa Grossman...
Dad, stop embarrassing me
Dear Mr. Grossman,
It is a tad too early to say that the Bears aren't committing to Cutler. Now if they don't use their first round draft picks on some decent wide receivers you may be able to make that claim....oh yeah, getting Cutler means they don't have any first round picks until 2012. Never mind.
random thoughts by:
wescrewedthepooch
Can you imagine what kind of stats Berrian would have if he had stayed with the Bears? 300 total yds/1 TD/2.5 total games played/12 injured hamstrings... um, strike that... You can have him back... please?
There is no excuse for Rex Grossman there just isn't. 'Nuf said.
But, he is right the Bears organization has put too much emphasis on the run and not enough on a balanced football team. They don't get good receivers and they don't groom them. Because once they find a good runningback they run him into the ground and then look for the pass.
It's obvious, if the running game doesn't work the Bears have been forever screwed. But, honestly somebody is in Cutlers head telling him HE is the Chicago Bears and nobody else matter. He's doing waaaay too much.
===="So is it's the Texans system that keeps Rex from starting? Or was it the Bears system who made it difficult for Rex to handle a snap?"====
No, it's Matt Schaub's fault that Rex can't start for the Texans. And it was likely Olin Kreutz's fault with the botched snaps, as it's a problem that has cropped up not just with Rex but with other Bears QBs.
Early in his career, Grossman had that gunslinger mentality and was playing with a lot of confidence. Once he had that 5INT game against Arizona, the coaches really started to pull back the reins on him and stress "Just don't mess up! Just don't mess up! Whatever you do, just don't mess up!"
That kind of coaching and playcalling completely killed his confidence and turned him into an ineffective QB.
Hopefully he can turn things around for himself down in Houston if he ever has to step in for Schaub. I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
With Grossman, the Bears rarely if ever used the shotgun formation, which was Rex's favorite since his Florida days and one where he was most effective, for a variety of reasons. Turner should've used it more for several reasons: 1. He's short. 2. He's slowfooted. 3. He was a downfield throw QB more than a dink and dunk guy.
Grossman's dad is right - the Bears never adjusted the system to meet Grossman's strengths. They instead tried to fit a round peg into a square hole.
I am a Bears fan, and I agree with Dan Grossman. The Bears will have to become , philosophically, a passing team. Right now they are a passing team ONLY because the line is so bad that Forte is gettinghit in the backfield on what seems to be 85% of his runs. This starts at the top. No matter what Charlie Casserly thinks, which I'm positive has to do with the perception that the McCaskey family would rather suck for two more years than pony up the cash for a new coach while eating Smith's contract, Smith should be on the hot seat. If they don't let him go, they need to at least bring in a strong, pass oriented OC and tell Smith, "Hands off". If Smith doesn't like it, he can leave and forefit $11 million. Cutler IS better than this, but he needs the Bears to build a new team around him. In the meantime, I'll pray that Shanahan is the head coach next year, and hope for the best.
The best offenses in the NFL have almost always had a balanced offense. The few exceptions, like the 49ers in one of their Super Bowl years, could run the ball when they needed to.
Grossman had 20 INTs in his only full season in Chicago, while Cutler has 17 so far, and he had 18 a year ago. There may be something to this, regardless of the source.
You know, given that Orton has turned into Mr. Efficiency in Denver, it's hard to say Grossman's issues in Chicago were entirely his fault. It's effectively the same as with the Raiders: the program is completely inept at developing quarterbacks, hence even the most talented draft picks will fail.
I think Grossman's dad hit it right on the head. You have to attempt to run. you don't have to be good at it. It is definitely a passing league. Good insight.
Built offense to run?
But they can't run either! Whether it's Orton or Benson leaving and immediately improving rapidly, it must be something else!
Lovie Smith and Ron Turner must be FIRED!
This is silly, Cutler always threw interceptions guys. He is a confident gunslinging QB like Favre and Brees. Difference this year, he doesnt have good WRs. Hester is a good number 2, but he is also a converted DB. No Brandon Marshal or Eddie Royal. No Sheffler of veteran Stokely. And no Shanahan. Defensive minded head coach, new system, inexperienced WRs. Cutler will be fine, there is nothing wrong with him. He is the Bears franchise QB and they are lucky to have him. Grossmans dad, he is just an idiot, sticking up for his kid. Why on earth this moron of a father is speaking out for a full grown man who is in the NFL (and an injury away from starting for a quality team in Houston) is beyond me...
I said before the season coaching and ron turner in particular would be the reason the bears would not win this season.unfortunatly they proved me right. they took one of the best young qb's in the game and have destroyed his carerer.what moron takes a qb like cutler then does not use what he does well in his game plan?only the bears!in denver he rolled out alot and played iin the shotgun,with the bears line up under center and watch him hand off untill 3rd. down.the play calling is just plain awful. as grossman's dad he has every right to say that and more the way the media and fans treated his son.just like with florio it got personal and he was blamed for everything that was wrong with the bears to global warming.remember the first 5 weeks of the superbowl season grossman played lights and threw td's everywhere and then it was like they realised hey wait we are a running team let's go back to that and as his dad pointed out throw it on third and long.as was also pointed out you put brady and manning in that offense and they would suck also. they need to clean house and bring in someone who understands offense is part of the game to.
Who's fault will it be when Wittle Rexy is out of the league within 2 years?
Bears have massive problems...true.
But your kid sucks. How long are you going to fight his battles Daddy?
The Giants won the Superbowl 2 years ago by running the football.
I said it before, I'll say it again......
Cutler without decent WR's is a mediocre QB at best. Until (and if) the Bears get people Cutler can throw to, they are NOT committed to their QB period! They screwed the pooch for getting a known WR in the draft. They could get lucky and find one in the second or third round that turns out to be great, but I wouldn't hold my breath.......
This off season and next, if the Bears want to go anywhere, look for them to go after virtually any WR that hits the market that knows how to catch the ball. If not, they will be constantly fighting with GB for second/third in the division!
They did try to be a passing team in 2004 under o. coordinator Terry Shea and it didn't seem to help Grossman any.
The only problem I have w/ this is that it's coming from Rex's dad. If this were to come from anyone else, it would be dead on.
Rex's dad is a weak ass bitch. I suppose it's the Bears fault he couldn't even handle the center snap half the time. Not to mention being unable to recognize the difference in color of the Bears receivers jerseys and the opponents CB's jerseys. Throwing into double and triple coverage was routine. No wonder Grossman is a bum. The apple fell right under the tree.
"Grossman's dad is right - the Bears never adjusted the system to meet Grossman's strengths. They instead tried to fit a round peg into a square hole."
It worked fine for him for half the year in 2006 until he completely forgot how to play football.
Dudes got a point.... Chicago is the town where good QBs die... and Detroit.
Jim McMahon was a good QB.
Grew up in Bloomington... Dan Grossman is a HIGHLY successful eye surgeon who is very intelligent.
He could just buy the bears and change things altho he is much too smart to do that :)
Rex probably took a paycut when he signed his first contract.
@dgol18: "Cutler IS better than this..."
Huh? What in the world makes you say such a thing? A quick check of Cutler's career stats show he's a middle of the road QB and nothing more. Cutler didn't win in college and hasn't won in the NFL. He's a guy w. a strong arm how makes poor decisions. What you see is what you get w. Cutler.
You bears fans really think this dudes incorrect? I thought you were going to the Bowl with Cutler!? Your squad blows and will continue to blow until you give Lovie the boot. And your QBs always blow, something wrong here? Yup.... squad blows.
Even when Cutler had good receivers and a line built for him, in a system built around his talents, he was not a successful QB. Oh sure, he put up a ton of yards. He also put up a lot of INTs, too many of which came in the red zone and killed drives for a Denver team that couldn't afford to keep putting their horrible defense in a hole.
Cutler has all the physical tools, but he has yet to put the mental side of it together. He is just too careless with the ball, especially in the red zone.
Cutler is 4th in the league in pass attempts, behind Manning, Brady, and Warner. It's not like the Bears aren't trying to use him, they just aren't a good enough team. Anyone who doesn't see they need more talent around Cutler just isn't paying attention. It's going to take them a minute to get some real pieces in place.
Rex got plenty of chances with the Bears, he just is not a good enough football player to really even be in the league.
This guy is soooo right. I have been saying that for years about the Bears. They're still living in the past, with the Ditka years and the '85 team.
They are all about playing solid defense and running the football, but the idea of a sophisticated passing game is a foreign concept to that organization. I think Cutler will be fine if they can get him some targets to throw to.
It's really pathetic when the best solution the front office can come up with is to convert a KR/DB into your #1 WR....
I only agree with Grossman to a certain extent. Cutler's picks this season have been mostly bad decisions/bad throws on his own part. He isn't being put in desperate positions or anything. His WRs are adequate.
The Bears record is a product of too many INTs and a bad defense.
People still think this is the Bears defense of the early 2000s. It isn't. They're not good.
Just because the Bears signed the QB for a lot of money, doesn't mean they are committed to the QB. Just because you marry me doesn't mean you are committed to me. Hello. The man means that you want a quarterback to be good, but you don't provide him the resources - maybe an O-line, or receivers, etc. Personally, I just think the guy sucks, but I understand what papa Grossman is saying. Lovie is not a bad coach, at least he's gotten his team to the SuperBowl. And the last great Bears QB was JIM McMAHON!!! OH Yeah!
For allof you clowns that are raging agianst Grossman's Dad, you don't know squat about football. The Bears are easy to defend against, they have no running game & yet that is their focus. They have crap for receivers, there best reciever is a defensive back, what does that tell you about there Coaching & drafting ability. Sure is son wasn't very good, don't believe he had much of a chance running for his life either during his tenure. The defense is tired & broke down from all of the time the last 5yrs being on the field the majority of the game.
Seriously...is there anything MORE LAME than having your parents stick up for you in the media over stuff that happened at your job when you are a grown man? Has this dude been asking McNabb's mom for advice or something?
Bear Down says:
November 17, 2009 12:00 PM
Cutler is 4th in the league in pass attempts, behind Manning, Brady, and Warner. It's not like the Bears aren't trying to use him, they just aren't a good enough team. Anyone who doesn't see they need more talent around Cutler just isn't paying attention. It's going to take them a minute to get some real pieces in place.
Rex got plenty of chances with the Bears, he just is not a good enough football player to really even be in the league.
**************
Of course he is 4th in the league in pass attempts. When your defense is that bad and you are always playing from behind, you are going to have to abandon the run.
The three teams above them are true passing teams.
I would like to see Cower coach the Bears. Bring in a nasty defense and install a power run game.
Give me a break.
They're committed to Cutler. They were committed to Grossman. How many chances did they give that guy and he kept falling flat on his face? Remember when he turned it over SIX times in the illustrious "The Bears are who we thought they were" game? Yeah, Lovie started him next week.
The problem isn't Lovie. It's not Ron Turner. It's not the lack of WRs or the system or the allegiance to the run (they've passed a whole lot more often than they've run this year by the way). It's the offensive line. When Cutler has no time to throw the ball, he makes bad decisions. Same reason Forte has been disappointing this year - the line creates no running lanes.
Krow says:
The Giants won the Superbowl 2 years ago by running the football.
--
Say what? Seems to me the defense held the high-scoring Patriots to 14 points and Eli the thrower was Super Bowl MVP, Plaxico Burress made the catch never to be forgotten after David Tyree made a catch that will be even more never forgotten on his helmet.
Jay Cutlers dad could beat up Rex Grossmans dad!
This sounds like when Cade McNown's mother wrote an article in the times titled "My Son is Not a Loser". Why do they even print this garbage. We lost the Super Bowl because Grossman can't see over the line or read coverages that a 4th year QB should be able to. Grossman had much more to work with than Cutler so to compare them isn't fair. Grossman had a veteran line that was top 5 in the league in 06. He had Thomas Jones playing in his prime. He had Muhammed as a run blocking possession receiver and Bernard Berrian as a deep threat. Not to mention a top 5 defense that won half our games for us when Rex stunk. I will say that Jerry Angelo hasn't built a good enough team for Cutler with a poor O line that can't pick up the blitz or run block. Inexperienced receivers none of which can run block or run the right route on many of his picks. A sophmore slump for Forte although I believe play calling and a lack of confidence in his blockers are more to blame. Lovie may be to blame for some of the defense's inconsistency but to take a shot at him when he stuck up for Grossman time and time again is just low. Lets not forget in 05 when Lovie benched Orton after he won 10 games as a rookie.
@Sourdough
@dgol18: "Cutler IS better than this..."
Huh? What in the world makes you say such a thing? A quick check of Cutler's career stats show he's a middle of the road QB and nothing more. Cutler didn't win in college and hasn't won in the NFL. He's a guy w. a strong arm how makes poor decisions. What you see is what you get w. Cutler.
Okay....where to start..
Vandy doesn't win period. The mere fact that they were a blip on the radar was because of Cutler.
Career Passing Stats
YR G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD INT RAT
06 5 81 137 59.1 1001 7.3 9 5 88.5
07 16 297 467 63.6 3497 7.5 20 14 88.1
08 16 384 616 62.3 4526 7.3 25 18 86.0
How are these numbers middle of the road? Especially for a young player out of a bad football school, how are these numbers middle of the road? In 08 Denver had one of the worst defenses in NFL history meaning lots of must pass situations late in games. In that context 18 INTs is not that bad. This year there have been some real bonehead throws I'll concede, however the Bears have played from behind in EVERY game this year.
Your turn.
===="They did try to be a passing team in 2004 under o. coordinator Terry Shea and it didn't seem to help Grossman any"====
Grossman was doing OK as a first year starter that year until he blew out his knee in the 3rd game.
The problem is the Bears run the ball to much? Really?
@ SF - Cutler had 52 attempts to Forte's 20 carries. The game was never more than a TD away from the lead...
vs. ARI - Granted, Arizona put knocked Chicago into catch up mode before half time, but looking at the Chicago's first 4 drives, they ran the ball a whopping 3 times (not counting Hester's end-arounds). Cutler dropped back to pass 14 times...
vs. CLE - Cutler ends with 30 attempts to the running game's 32 (not counting Cutler's scrambles). This is the only game Chicago's won in the last 5.
@ CIN - Another game the opponent jumped out to a large early lead, but Chicago's first 3 drives ended with a 10 passes and 5 runs, then they were down by almost 30...
@ ATL - 18 rushes to 43 pass attempts...
And the problem is they are too committed to the run?
I think everyone is missing the real reason. Ron Turner is a college level play designer and play caller. The blocking sceams for the run and pass are poor. His plays and play calling are poor. What the bears need is an offensesive coordinator with the ability to design and call plays for the NFL. They also need a receiver coach to teach the receivers how to run a route. It is pretty sad when your receiver with the most time on the team, is one of your best special team players and your number receiver (better suited for the slot postion) isn't even 6' tall and was a defensive back with small small hands.
As for Rex, he was a kid with good skills and arm, he is just to short for the NFL.
I've read these blogs for only a short time but am seeing a disturbing theme recur: one man makes a team.
I blame the media that exalt the team "star" gaining the most yards, having the most sacks, rushing for... well, you get the picture. Somehow that has tainted our view of the game, that one person can make a team. Well, they can't. Mediocre players can stand out when they have a great supporting cast, even better if their directors are stellar as well. But one person was never responsible for taking their team to the Super Bowl or losing their team's bid for the playoffs.
The Bears didn't fail in getting Cutler, they failed by not evolving the team to a different style of play. The Bears have always stated they are a running team so (and I've asked this before) why did they give so much for a passing QB? They have talent for Cutler to use but I'm not seeing a change in style to capitalize on that strength.
The team succeeds, or the team fails. The Bears have failed, mostly themselves. I've stated in a previous post that the cleansing probably won't happen this year but if next year is as dismal there won't be much of a choice.
The bears will have alot of money to spend on free agents without having to pay for 1st round busts like...
Curtis Enis – (1998)
Cade McNown – (1999)
David Terrell – (2001)
Marc Colombo – (2002)
Michael Haynes – (2003)
Rex Grossman – (2003)
Cedric Benson – (2005)
Chris Williams – (2008) - pending
Krow, you are incorrect. The NY Football Giants did not win the Super Bowl by focusing on the run. They were 19 of 34 passing for 255 yards and 26 rushes for 91 yards. Their 2 touchdowns in the game... passes. That is all.
I hate to say it. But the guy has a point. The Bears system has not been QB friendly.
I like Lovie but he has never made adjustements to throw more or tailor his plays around who is under center. He really should take notes of how Tomlin has changed his offense to work around Big Ben.
As as Bears fan, I could not agree with Dan Grossman more.
To my simple-minded fellow Bears fans, this is not rocket science.
Look what happened to Jim Harbaugh. He goes to Indianapolis and almost makes the Super Bowl.
I felt like Rex was Jim Harbaugh 2. Plenty of capability, he just needs to be cultivated.
But I hope Da Bears don't fire Turner. He's certainly the best OC they've ever had (Please no arguments for Ed Hughes. Despite great personnel, the 'Skins and 49ers weren't scared in the late '80s thanks to a lack of scheme).
Hire a QB coach. Get back Tony Wise for the off. line, get a def coord (Rivera or Blache again?), and get John Lynch to coach the defensive backs. That should straighten this roster out.
Actually, I do disagree with Dan Grossman on one point. Da Bears don't need to commit to being a passing team. They just need to get things in order. Isn't Cincinnati's running game doing well?
Rex is fantastic combination of too short, too slow and too clumsy. He's only "good" in a clean pocket with open passing lanes. Disrupt his pocket and he trips over himself.
I agree with Grossman Sr. The Bears have never focued on the QB in thier system. And as for Culter throwing 52 times a game ... to who? With who blocking up front? They are not built to do that. Of course today they're not built to do too much of anything.
Nice run Lovie but it's time for us to part ways. And be a good guy and hold the door for Jerry. He'll be right behind you.