Though the Cleveland Browns aren’t providing many clues regarding their plans for hiring a new General Manager and/or adding a “football czar” to lead the organization, a league source tells us that there’s a growing sense something will be happening soon.
The specific form of that something is unknown. Per the source, former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar’s words and demeanor are causing some to conclude that he’s in line for a significant role with the team — and multiple league insiders have opined to us that giving Kosar a seat at the table would be a huge mistake.
We’re also told that multiple candidates for the “czar”-type position also have declined to interview for the job. The reasons for folks saying “thanks” followed by “no thanks” aren’t clear.
One thing that is becoming more and more clear is that coach Eric Mangini likely won’t be in the team’s plans beyond the current season.
So stay tuned. The Browns have gone from bad to embarrassing less than two years after winning 10 of 16 games. Though there’s not much confidence that owner Randy Lerner will be able to find his way out of the maze, it appears that he fully intends to try.
Where are you getting the information about the czar’s who decline to interview? You can do better than that. Tell us who declined to interview
I can’t honestly say whether or not Bernie would be good in the front office or bad. But for what it’s worth, Bernie does the local preseason television broadcasts for the Browns and he is extremely candid & honest in his analysis of what is going on with the players and coaching. He makes a lot of sense, and it’s refreshing. Front office, don’t know. Football guy, most definitely. Being a true football guy is worth something.
Thank you Florio for constantly reminding us daily how bad the Browns are from the top down.
As if suicide rates in Northeastern Ohio weren’t high enough. (When Lebron leaves 43% of the male population will off themselves).
I love Bernie, but he cant manage his own life, how is he supposed to manage a football team?
Lerner and The Browns won’t find their way out of the maze if Kosar is at the table! Some players just do not make GOOD front office people! Look at Michael Jordan and Isaiah Thomas!!! Kosar has been around this team since he retired and they haven’t improved, before or after the move!
rjgreen3, you are mistaken. Kosar has not been involved with the team, as he was spending most of his time in Florida (you may not know, but the Browns are in Ohio). His involvement ended when he advised Al Lerner and Carmen Policy to hire Bill Belichick instead of Chris Palmer.
“Kosar the Czar” Bringing the white man’s afro back to Cleveland!!! As long as Mangini is out, I don’t care who they hire. They can even hire Florio for all I care……wait…..damn….I’ve got to stop smoking crack before bed.
# lordmandinga says: December 9, 2009 8:31 PM
“As if suicide rates in Northeastern Ohio weren’t high enough. (When Lebron leaves 43% of the male population will off themselves).”
Well, that’s one good reason for Lebron to leave…
Florio you set up tomorrow night really nice. If the Browns can pull off an upset with 50% of it’s defensive starters on IR and rookies in the skill positions on offense, what would that say about the Steelers? I think the Steelers have to blow the Browns out to save face in this game.
Also, I do not think Kosar will be the GM, but he will be involved in some capacity.
GO BROWNS!!!
Florio you set up tomorrow night really nice. If the Browns can pull off an upset with 50% of it’s defensive starters on IR and rookies in the skill positions on offense, what would that say about the Steelers? I think the Steelers have to blow the Browns out to save face in this game.
Also, I do not think Kosar will be the GM, but he will be involved in some capacity.
GO BROWNS!!!
Well… Kosar NEEDS a job…
People will call me crazy but trust me on this one: Kosar may be involved but Parcells will be call the shots in 2010. Guaranteed!
Shake N Bake says:
People will call me crazy but trust me on this one: Kosar may be involved but Parcells will be call the shots in 2010. Guaranteed!
They’ll call you crazy because that’s what you are. Exactly what do you base this “guarantee” on, please?
If you believe Florio’s wild speculation based on unnamed sources, the problem here (the way I see it) is that Lerner is building up Kosar and giving him some sort of responsibility and “on-the-job training” but he is simultaneously seeking an “outside” football czar (GM / President / etc.)
A high quality candidate for this job would definitely NOT want to be beholdent in any way, shape, or form to Kosar, a guy who, though I love him, has no experience in an NFL front office.
Basically, Randy can’t “have his cake and eat it too.” That’s Mangini’s job (that cheap shot was for you, Florio).
Lets see… You want me to come in staighten out the mess you have and train Kosar to take over for me???
Yeah that will be a cold day in hell.
Kosar has been working as office boy to help pay off his browns loan. He has successfully reduced the outstanding balance of $1.5M to $1.498.559.
Florio is upset. His frontrunning @$$ is upset cause his Steelers are in ruins right now. So, what does he do? Makes up a bunch of BS about all in the AFC North to make himself feel better.
There aren’t going to be a ton of openings Florio, so most aren’t going to have a ton of locations to pick from. Not to mention, the Browns have 11 draft picks, the 2nd most cap space in the NFL, and a fan base that is the BEST in the NFL. It is a perfect situation for anyone to want. EVEN YOUR BOY THE CHIN!
“One thing that is becoming more and more clear is that coach Eric Mangini likely won’t be in the team’s plans beyond the current season.”
I’d love to hear more details on this, Florio. This isn’t in any way sarcastic–please give us Browns fans something to hope for.
The way I see it, there’s nothing to indicate Mangini will be gone. Some point to the Kokinis firing, but that could just as easily have been a move by Mangini to consolidate power. Based on Lerner’s history, it wouldn’t be unlikely to see Lerner hire Weiss as OC, give Mangini a contract extension if he wins another game (he loves extending his HC/GMs without any justifiable reason and just before firing them), then hire a “czar” all while still having Mangini report directly to the owner.
The Browns’ organization chart is a nightmare. I hope Lerner finally implements a solid foundation, and then makes the right hires from there, but this guy’s never given us any reason to hope that’ll be the case.
“Kosar, a guy who, though I love him, has no experience in an NFL front office.”
To be fair–and please understand, this isn’t justification for making him a GM, and I don’t know what to make of that if it is true–but Kosar has proven himself as a very successful football exec. He took a last place AFL team, was critical in moving the organization to Cleveland, and turned them around into a championship caliber team in one year. I know, I know, it’s not the NFL, and it’s a different level of competition… but those are transferable skills. Just saying, it’s not like they’d be bringing in some guy off the street.
And to those who talk about him not being able to run his own life, or hold the bankruptcy against him, it’s important to consider in context: he has been a wildly successful businessman. He started and sold more than one successful company, he invested and made a lot of money, owned an AFL team… It was complications from the divorce that led to the bankruptcy–which it’s worth noting is a perfectly legal remedy, and doesn’t quite mean what most people believe it does.
Anyway, please don’t take that as an argument in favor of making him a GM. I just don’t think the criticisms leveled against him necessarily disqualify him, and most aren’t exactly fair.
[b]Shake N Bake says:
December 9, 2009 9:19 PM
People will call me crazy but trust me on this one: Kosar may be involved but Parcells will be call the shots in 2010. Guaranteed![/b]
That’s all I want for Christmas!
Much as it pains me to agree with Coop and SATAN, if Florio’s sources are correct, that’s the only scenario that makes sense–other than Lerner trying to nickel-and-dime potential czars to death. No “czar” would want to be told “It’s yours to run–but Bernie’s your righthand guy.” Czars like to have free rein to bring in their own people. So unless Lerner is trying to get something for nothing salarywise, requiring czars to partner in some way with Kosar would probably be a deal-breaker.
Bernie must have made quite an impression on Lerner if he’s willing to risk losing a big-name football guy in order to keep Bernie in the mix–assuming Florio’s info is accurate. I always liked Kosar as a player, but it seems that if he had a gift for NFL football operations, he’d have exercised it by now. Hope Lerner makes a wise decision. As a Steelers fan, I’d like to see the Browns seriously competitive again.
So no one has interviewed, but since Kosar’s demeanor seems to suggest something we’re supposed to believe they’re about to hire? I don’t think so…I bet Lerner waits till the offseason to ensure he can interview everyone he wants to.
Hire me. I may not know what I’m doing, but I figure it’s worth a shot. lol
Isn’t Kosar more like a piss boy than a CZAR?!
ow piss boy
I don’t see Mangini losing his job. I know a lot of us in Cleveland were hoping for some kind of miracle, but firing Mangini is just a waste of another year. Because then we have to bring in another coach who will again dismantle the existing team. It takes time to rebuild. We have to give Mangini time to develop the players he drafted. This was the plan going into the season. And honetly, who would want to work for an organization that fires a coach after one year?
I have no idea what happen with Kokinus. No one seems to. But the Browns need a GM. It doesn’t have to be a big name.
And Kosar being involved is a plus. Maybe only on a PR kind of level. And if he ends up with some imput….what’s that going to hurt?
“One thing that is becoming more and more clear is that coach Eric Mangini likely won’t be in the team’s plans beyond the current season.”
AMEN!!!
We’re also told that multiple candidates for the “czar”-type position also have declined to interview for the job. The reasons for folks saying “thanks” followed by “no thanks” aren’t clear.
_______________
Uh, I can think of one good reason, and if your speculation/rumor posted earlier this week is accurate, make that two reasons.
Lerner is stiffing Kokinis by firing him for “cause” and you speculate Mangini may soon follow in the same fashion.
Two guys fired for cause in less than a year? That is highly unusual and would certainly make any Czar candidate leery about working for Lerner. Under those circumstances the exit language in the Czar’s contract will be far more important than his W-L record. Anyone who accepts this job, if indeed Lerner ends up firing two people for cause, better have a damn good labor attorney negotiate his contract.
“Bernie must have made quite an impression on Lerner”
Yeah, so did Eric Mangini, once.
I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in Lerner’s football judgement just yet.
if its true that people aren’t even interviewing for the job, it makes me wonder if Lerner has told them they cant fire mangini…thats really the only thing that makes much sense to me as to why they wouldnt even interview.
Just to add a little to the puzzle. Tomorrow night at the Browns game they are going to announce that the AFL is coming back. Bernie is rumored to be working for them, not the Browns.
Also, Kokinas is said to have been “removed from his job” because of inter office affairs. He was sexually involved with someone within the Browns organization. Violation of his contract.
Just sayin…… GO BROWNS
Three things:
1. I am *not* high on the idea of Bernie Kosar having a near-the-top position in the Browns front office. Not scared of the idea, more like a little wary. Why? Simply because this team has done so many things wrong that, for all *I* know, a Holmgren or a Parcells may even fail here.
BUT, as far as the two reasons most people are giving for it being a bad idea?
2. “He has no experience”. As some earlier in this thread noted, Kosar bought, moved, and had significant success with an arena league team. Is it the NFL? No. Is it a direct, successful, high level experience with a professional sports franchise? Yes. In my mind, the jury is still out, but you can’t sit there and say the guy would be utterly clueless in an NFL front office position.
3. “If he can’t run his own life (bankruptcy), how is he going to help run a football team?” As far as the bankruptcy goes, I have one word for you: DIVORCE. If you have investments and bills that are based of your worth, and then somebody takes half of your worth in a divorce, you may end up bankrupt, too. Doesn’t mean you’re clueless in running your own life. So that whole theory is BS, if’n you ask me.
@Deb – You agree with me? Wow, there may be hope for our relationship yet. Enjoy the game tonight…… but not too much.
@trickbunny and everyone else looking past the “no experience” factor: You’re right – the AFL is NOT the NFL. I don’t know much about the AFL, but I’m willing to bet there aren’t as many teams, the competition is nowhere as stiff, and he wasn’t exactly competing against other legendary front office people in the AFL. If THOSE guys were worth their salt, THEY TOO would be in the NFL.
It’s not to say he CAN’T do it, but the odds are long. Isn’t this the same logic most of us gave when we were pissed about the hirings of Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Phil Savage, George Kokinos? : “Never has been an NFL HC / GM before” ? Why does our beloved # 19 get a pass on that?
As far as those making comments about his issues in his personal life, those are cheap shots. Kosar is on a long list of athletes who have been ruined by people they trusted. I hope YOU are never burned by someone you trust.
Bernie Kosar=Matt Millen. Anybody with a personality can act like they actually know something. All their information comes from other places, and is from wannabees who have no real job themselves.
It’s a shame Cleveland can’t fire the owner of the Browns.
The Coop:
I agree with you, in general, about Bernie’s experience in the AFL not meaning he’s ready for a similar positon in the NFL. I guess I was just arguing some folks’ assertion that he really has no football experience at all.
The bottom line is that I *definitely* do NOT think he’s a suitable candidate for a GM job. Player personnel or something like that, maybe- but GM, hell no.
Aaaaww, you and Deb agree on something? That’s sweet, ha ha… The girl (????) hates me. That’s ok, though- I actually like watching her (???) get flustered and pissed over some comments I’ve made. I think that some posters here have the opinion that, if they insult you, it will somehow affect you in a negative way instead of doing what it *actually* does, which is to give me a mild chuckle. It’s the Internet, folks. Take a breath
i’d bet your “league insiders” fear kosar b/c he just might be smarter than them….
how could kosar do any worse than what they’ve had
rack kosar, the smartest guy in the league
Florio, I now have a theory of your “journalism”…
You write down all recent rumors and stories (true or just pulled out of the sky) on individual slips of paper, throw them in a big coffee can, shake it up and pull two or three out, and start the story with:
“A league source tells us…”
… and you get paid for this???
“One thing that is becoming more and more clear is that coach Eric Mangini likely won’t be in the team’s plans beyond the current season.”
Please elaborate, or provide ONE clear example of this b/c I have not heard ONE thing different, other than “Lerner and Mangini share the same vision and philosophy going forward”
Florio already touched on why the Browns should be giving ‘positions of influence’ to former players:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/17/jim-brown-spills-the-beans-on-holmgren/
And what about the Rooney rule? Who’s going to even interview if Kosar looks like he is a shoe-in anyway?
@LJ: I think Matt Millen should put to bed any notion that being a TV talking head in any way qualifies you to be an NFL front office person…. or qualify you to do anything BUT be a TV talking head.
And I don’t think you can divorce Kosar’s well-chonicled personal finance difficulties from his apparent business acumen. No one else helps you build or destroy your own finances except you yourself, whereas for all we know he has just been the figurehead/front man for his business ventures…. or a la Lenny Dykstra just been the beneficiary of really, really kind media attention (until the truth couldn’t be ignored any longer).
Suffice it to say that no one who didn’t work his/her way up the NFL management ladder should be put in charge of running an NFL franchise. How often do you see someone being put in charge of any multi-million dollar enterprise with zero or limited experience in that specific industry (AFL is not NFL)? Look at the 49ers and how well things are going with the owner’s kid running things.
First – Mangini WILL be the coach next year. You can’t make chicken soup with chicken sh-t.
Second – Kosar was considered an onfield coach when he played. The concensus was that he was football brilliant and would easily transition to coach if he chose to do so.
Third – I like the fact that you do report rumors. It proves that you have even less information than I do.
@The Coop … Thanks
@Trickbunny … My, you have a wild imagination. You’ve imagined I hate you and you’ve flustered me. Sorry to disappoint on both. Yes, there are a couple of PFTers I despise because they are sociopaths. I’m happy to report none are Browns fans (but don’t let any woman you know go to Minnesota or Baltimore without armed escort). I actually find you mildly entertaining, Bunnyhop. As for flustering me … gee, I thought it was the other way around. I don’t fluster easily.
Now, about all those ??? I’ll be so disappointed if you turn out to be just another guy who can’t envision that a woman who’s all woman and doesn’t look like a lineman could actually love pro football. I’ll admit it’s rare, but it’s true.
Pork Star:
great post on December 9, 2009 @ 10:36 PM. those are the exact feelings i have about bernie. good stuff!
“but firing Mangini is just a waste of another year. Because then we have to bring in another coach who will again dismantle the existing team. It takes time to rebuild. We have to give Mangini time to develop the players he drafted. This was the plan going into the season.”
Could not disagree more. When it is clear someone is doing more harm than good, and is not the right person for the job, then the right move is to cut your losses and move on. When you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to stop digging, right? Browns fans are some of the smartest in football (boy, am I going to get heat for that one. Doesn’t mean there aren’t morons among us, but in general? Yeah, they are. NE Ohio is the cradle of football. It’s in our genes. I think SI even did some research on this a few years back. But I digress…) Anyway, my only point about the fans is that people knew to expect a rebuild. But this is different…
He drafted horribly. If he is allowed another crack at it, with 11 draft picks this year, and either the 2nd most cap room (if the CBA is extended) or no salary cap, there’s potential for him to set this franchise back at least another five years. He’s incompetent. He was perfectly happy with DA’s performance this year. Told us so every week. You really happy with that?
“And honetly, who would want to work for an organization that fires a coach after one year?”
Turn that around… who wants to work for an organization that has an incompetent, arrogant, back stabbing HC like Mangini at the helm, or decides to keep him long term? Mangini has zero respect among his peers. Agents say publicly that they won’t steer players towards him. GMs dont’ want to work with him. Coaches won’t come here to work on his staff. When you find out you have cancer, you do everything you can to excise it and rid yourself of the disease… you don’t wait it out and hope it gets better. This guy is a cancer.
I had high hopes for the guy. I was wrong. He does not know how to rebuild, he only knows how to destroy.
I doubt Lerner does it, but it needs to be done, and a good owner would make the move.
A full generation of Browns fans have been lost already, thanks to Modell’s failures and the Lerners’ incompetence. You’re more likely to find kids today wearing Colts or Steelers gear around NE Ohio than Browns gear. It’s sad. And Lerner stands at the precipice, about to lose another generation of fans that have no connection to the historic franchise that we have here, knowing only a loser and laughingstock of the NFL, compounding one bad decision with another, determined to prove he’s the smartest guy in the room.
Dear GeniusJoe
I see your name is awful close to what the Jets used to call Mangini. How could you support keeping him??? Chicken soup??? Wow!
“the AFL is NOT the NFL. I don’t know much about the AFL, but I’m willing to bet there aren’t as many teams, the competition is nowhere as stiff, and he wasn’t exactly competing against other legendary front office people in the AFL. If THOSE guys were worth their salt, THEY TOO would be in the NFL.”
Nobody’s looking past the “no experience factor”, just pointing out it’s not an automatic disqualification.
Everyone in the NFL did not start in the NFL. They proved themselves at lower levels. The cream rises to the top.
The topic of discussion is Mangini, so let’s use him as an example–he didn’t start as a HC. He was a ballboy for the Browns in the early 90s. Worked his way up. Other guys started in the college ranks. Kurt Warner proved himself in another league, and then came to the NFL.
So, to re-quote you:
“If THOSE guys were worth their salt, THEY TOO would be in the NFL.”
Perhaps Benie is worth his salt, and having proven his mettle in the AFL, is in the NFL now, too. That’s how it works.
Again, not saying he’s the guy for the job–I don’t know him. From what Florio reports, it doesn’t sound like his NFL sources think he is, but Florio is also biased and rips Bernie every chance he gets, particularly for his divorce/bankruptcy, which is something I don’t hold against him. All I know is that the guy has been successful with every business venture he’s been involved in that I am aware of, and I have never hear any teammate of his give him anything but the highest praise for his football IQ. Remember, he was the one on the sideline wearing the headset and designing the plays for Marino back in ’94–the man’s not stupid.
“And I don’t think you can divorce Kosar’s well-chonicled personal finance difficulties from his apparent business acumen. No one else helps you build or destroy your own finances except you yourself,”
You must be single. When married, there are two people who can destroy your finances. Kosar never had any financial problems prior to his nasty divorce.
So yes, you can separate his business successes from his personal financial problems… the root cause of which is his divorce.
“Just to add a little to the puzzle. Tomorrow night at the Browns game they are going to announce that the AFL is coming back. Bernie is rumored to be working for them, not the Browns.”
The report was that they’re forming a new league, and the Gladiators will belong to that. I think they’re calling it AFL1, or something like that.
Curious what Kosar’s involvement will be. Can’t imagine he works for both organizations unless he just maintains this mysterious “consultant” position with the Browns. I’m not buying that he’s a potential GM at this point, though I’d like to see what he would do on the sidelines as an assistant coach.
But even if he goes with the Browns full time, remember, he’s an owner of the Gladiators, he doesn’t necessarily have to continue to act as CEO/President.