As Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton nudges toward the completion of his current contract in his first season with his current team after four in Chicago, one of the big questions facing his current team is whether Orton will be locked up for the long haul.
And that reality apparently prompted a member of the media to ask Orton on Wednesday to talk about the term “franchise quarterback.”
Apparently, Orton believes that the term “franchise quarterback” arises only when the “franchise” feels a certain way about its “quarterback.”
“That’s all on the franchise,” Orton said in comments distributed by the team. “That’s all on the organization. That’s probably the only way you can decide that is if the organization thinks you’re one, then you’re one. I guess we’ll just wait and see.”
In other words, Orton believes that if a team makes a long-term commitment to a quarterback by paying him a huge amount of money, then he’s a “franchise quarterback.”
We might not be able to come up with an accurate description of what a “franchise quarterback” clearly is, but in the present context we only need to focus on what a “franchise quarterback” clearly isn’t.
Orton clearly isn’t.
Exhibit A, he has a career passer rating of 76.0.
Exhibit B, his passer rating for the current season is 88.2.
Exhibit C, he was a free-rope-when-you-buy-a-Christmas-tree afterthought in the trade that sent the true “franchise quarterback” (who might not be one, after all) to Chicago in exchange for two first-round draft picks.
And if Orton is looking for a big contract that would make him a “franchise quarterback,” he likely will continue to wait. Absent a new Collective Bargaining Agreement, he’ll be a restricted free agent in March 2010, and the Broncos will be able to retain his rights with a one-year contract offer in the range of $3 million.
And that would be Exhibit D.
If Orton takes them deep into the playoffs he’s got a good chance of nice shiny new contract for big money.
If he doesn’t the RFA offer will likely be what he gets, along with another year to prove that he’s worth the big money deal.
29-16 career record speaks for itself. Orton may not look pretty but he is a winner and I have no problem calling him a franchise quarterback.
If he had the stats of a Cutler or Palmer you media types would be licking his taint calling him the next Peyton Manning.
The dude wins games and that is the bottom line.
If you would have said “Kyle Orton” and “franchise quarterback” this time last year I would have laughed at you. Even with Denver’s recent struggles he’s proved he a good QB. A change of scenery seems to be what he needed.
Exhibit D makes the most sense considering they are gonna have to pay Marshall and Dumervil mad money (only one who deserves it, by the way).
My Donks are gonna need to draft (or find via free agency) somebody with more talent (but the same attitude) than Orton. With Cutler we had crazy talent but he sucked as a leader. With Orton we have simply the opposite.
That record is pretty heavily padded by a team that won with all defense and special teams as well…
All I say is that Denver is in much better shape at their QB position that Chicago is.
You can take his first 10 wins with the Bears and throw them out the window because he had nothing to do with those victories.
He was a band-aid at QB because Grossman was hurt and they won with great defense and a good running game. Orton’s job was to hand the ball off to Thomas Jones and stay the hell out of the way.
The one time that he was asked to be a big boy NFL QB he threw 5 picks against the Bengals and they lost the game.
To be honest most of you don’t know shit about Kyle Orton and if you believe that he is a top NFL QB then you are clueless.
# Cubano says: December 10, 2009 8:04 AM
All I say is that Denver is in much better shape at their QB position that Chicago is.
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Really?
Good luck with making the choice of paying Kyle Orton big money or starting over with Chris Simms.
Benny in the Bronx would offer more insightful arguments than what we have here.
You have the benefit of hindsight. The Broncos didn’t when they traded for Orton.
They had a choice between a deal with Washington (Jason Canpbell) and a deal with Chicago (Orton and picks).
The deal worked out way better than EVERYONE predicted. They’ll be a playoff team and will give someone a run for their money.
The Broncos will have to decide if they want a competent game manager (who doesn’t make mistakes that lose games), or draft a gunslinger and take their chances.
My money’s on them keeping Orton for the next two to three years…
Who cares what you call him.
So now Orton is playing defense ? How does he stack up vs the team leaders in tackling ?
Orton is a decent QB. He can put up decent numbers against most teams and not turn the ball over. I don’t think he can win games against the top defenses… which is what franchise QBs can do.
Funny how everyone is just automatically chalking up a playoff spot for Denver with 4 games still left.
They’ll lose to Indy and Philly and win against Oakland and KC – which would put them at 10-6. Baltimore and Pittsburgh could easily still pull off a 10-6 record if not 11-5 and both of those teams have beaten Denver.
Can you say tiebreaker?
Crying time in Donkeyville dead ahead.
Marvin Berry says: December 10, 2009 9:24 AM
Baltimore and Pittsburgh could easily still pull off a 10-6 record if not 11-5 and both of those teams have beaten Denver.
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Um, Baltimore and Pittsburgh both have 6 losses already. By my ciphering, that means 11-5 is not possible for either team.
@ Philtration says: You can take his first 10 wins with the Bears and throw them out the window because he had nothing to do with those victories.
He was a band-aid at QB because Grossman was hurt and they won with great defense and a good running game. Orton’s job was to hand the ball off to Thomas Jones and stay the hell out of the way.
The one time that he was asked to be a big boy NFL QB he threw 5 picks against the Bengals and they lost the game.
To be honest most of you don’t know shit about Kyle Orton and if you believe that he is a top NFL QB then you are clueless.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Just like “They’ll lose to Dallas and New England” too.
The amateur prognosticators have been trying to pick the Bronc’s off all season, only having to constantly eat crow.
But these other stiff teams can “easily” pull of their wins. I don’t think Pittsburgh is going to “easily” do anything the rest of the year.
San Diego doesn’t even have the West tied up yet, so it’s a little early to even be talking wildcard.
Frankly, I’m more concerned with Oakland right now than Philly.
The pre-season take on this team was no more than 6-10 on anybody’s card, so 11-5 looks super to me.
Orton is merely the hot chick’s friend at the bar/club. Safe and secure without all the hassle.
@ Marvin Berry says: They’ll lose to Indy and Philly and win against Oakland and KC – which would put them at 10-6. Baltimore and Pittsburgh could easily still pull off a 10-6 record if not 11-5 and both of those teams have the tie breaker.
You better check the standings. Since Pittsburgh and Baltimore already have 6 losses, it’ll be tough for them to go 11-5. Just sayin.’
When I hear the term franchise QB I have this vision of a QB who is capable of firing 30-40 yard pass into double coverage and putting the ball into a two foot square space with his receiver not having to break stride to make the catch.
You can’t type the above sentence and insert the word Orton in it. You could insert P. Manning, Brees and Rivers, but certainly not Orton.
Those one handed acrobatic catches Brandon Marshall has made this year aren’t because the ball was right where it should be, it’s because he had to to catch an off the mark pass.
Orton is serviceable as long you don’t ask him to throw long (30 yard) accurate passes, put pressure on him in the pocket and ask him to bring you back from 2 TD’s behind in the fourth quarter. Although to his credit he has brought the Broncos from behind to win several games this year. But I wouldn’t push it.
If they get to the playoffs this year they should give Mike Nolan the franchise type money, not Orton. If they had last year’s offense and this year’s defense they’d already be in the playoffs, if the playoffs were based on stats only.
What they could and should do though is at least pay him more than his backup Simms. $3.0M for Simms, $900K for Orton. That’s similar to the Brandon Marshall scenario last year.
Exhibits why he is more of a Franchise QB then the one you labeled in Chicago:
A: 29-16 vs. 22-27
B: He doesn’t lose games for his team, he wins them by not throwing 4 ints a game
C: He doesn’t treat his teammates like garbage
Cutler may have the arm, but that is one of many tools he needs to be a “franchise QB”. And he has none of the others, like being a winner. So trash on Orton all you want Florio, but don’t call Cutler a franchise QB ever again. Ask Chicago if he is their franchise. Or better yet, ask his teammates.
And Florio, McDaniels really just said “ahh hell we’ll take Orton too” in that trade. It’s becoming more and more apparent that he did study Orton and knew he would be the right fit for our offense.
bearsrule says: December 10, 2009 9:50 AM
@ Philtration says: You can take his first 10 wins with the Bears and throw them out the window because he had nothing to do with those victories.
He was a band-aid at QB because Grossman was hurt and they won with great defense and a good running game. Orton’s job was to hand the ball off to Thomas Jones and stay the hell out of the way.
The one time that he was asked to be a big boy NFL QB he threw 5 picks against the Bengals and they lost the game.
To be honest most of you don’t know shit about Kyle Orton and if you believe that he is a top NFL QB then you are clueless.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Well we certainly know one thing. He’s better than Cutler and the Bears got completely scammed in that trade and are now need have to continue to look for their “franchise QB” because Cutler certainly isn’t it. He has no leadership ability and has been a loser back to his college days.
It seems not a soul here knows squat…especially the “expert” Florio. Florio is a Cutler lovin’ retard.
Now, Kyle…you can all just hide and watch. Denver will pay him, keep him, and play him. Kyle is brand new to a system that Brady says takes at least 2 years to master…and Kyle is progressing very well. In a couple years…maybe even next season, Kyle will have McDaniels’ system mastered, at which time he becomes an “ELITE” QB. Thats right, ELITE. Cutler can keep the “franchise” term he has forever blemished for himself.
You heard it here first. BOOK IT!!
Not saying Orton is or will ever be a “Franchise QB” but all points you made against him being a “franchise QB” could have been made about Rich Gannon before he came to Oakland… and by everyone’s account, he was a “FRANCHISE QB”.
“Baltimore and Pittsburgh could easily still pull off a 10-6 record if not 11-5 and both of those teams have beaten Denver. Can you say tiebreaker?”
Not only do Baltimore and Pittsburgh already have six losses but they play each other in week 16. It’s impossible for the both to finish 10-6
Can you say mouthbreather?
Another thing to keep in mind is the context Orton made these comments in. He had just been asked by the Denver media to wax poetic about Peyton Manning for 5 minutes. Yeah he said “we’ll see” about the matter but its not like he arrived to the press conference with ideas of yammering on about his own status.
Also, considering Baltimore and Pittsburgh still have to play each other again, it is impossible for both of them to have a 10-6 record.
Hey, if he’s so elite, I guess the Broncos will have no problem handing him a $100 million contract, right, Bronco Fan Tom?
Exhibit A, he has a career passer rating of 76.0.
Exhibit B, his passer rating for the current season is 88.2.
…
Exhibit E, Eli Manning has a career passer rating of 76.0.
Exhibit F, Eli Manning passer rating for the current season is 89.2(his best ever).
Is Eli Manning a Franchise QB? The Giants think so…
Denver will finish 11-5. They’ll beat the Eagles and go 3-1 against the “best” division in the NFL.
Score 1 for McDaniels.
@StevieHO
Thats a bit much, don’t you think…no, you don’t.
Kyle’s contract will be somewhere around:
5 years, 36M with about 9 guaranteed. Very lucrative, but not ridiculous. When Kyle reaches the ELITE status…around 2011-2012, we may even extend him further, or re-negotiate.
It will happen, Kyle Orton is the future of the Broncos for at least the next 5-8 years.
Hey, if he’s so elite, I guess the Broncos will have no problem handing him a $100 million contract, right, Bronco Fan Tom?
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Yeah because an awful lot of qb’s have received that $100 million contract.
surefooted says:
December 10, 2009 11:20 AM
Exhibit A, he has a career passer rating of 76.0.
Exhibit B, his passer rating for the current season is 88.2.
…
Exhibit E, Eli Manning has a career passer rating of 76.0.
Exhibit F, Eli Manning passer rating for the current season is 89.2(his best ever).
Is Eli Manning a Franchise QB? The Giants think so…
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BAM…well done.
The guy who said Orton is like the hot chick’s friend is pretty accurate. Thing is that the hot chick’s friend (Orton) is probably a better bet for a stable long term relationship than the flashy “hot chick”(read: Cutler). JM doesn’t want to date a high maintenance broad, he wants someone he can count on.
By the way I thought at the time it happened and and still think now that it was STUPID of Smith to replace Orton (who wasn’t hurting his team which was a big deal when you had that great of a defense) with Grossman (who was an complete unknown coming off yet another big injury to start just his second game that year) on their playoff run in 2005. That told me a lot.
Bronco_Fan_Tom says:
December 10, 2009 12:22 PM
Kyle’s contract will be somewhere around:
5 years, 36M with about 9 guaranteed. Very lucrative, but not ridiculous. When Kyle reaches the ELITE status…around 2011-2012, we may even extend him further, or re-negotiate.
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We, we? You’re doing the contract negotiations for the Broncos? If so, you might also consider paying Marshall something near what he’s worth before he bolts Denver for a fair contract as soon as he can.
lol @ all you morons saying orton is better than culter, orton is the product of having good teams around him. cutlers struggles can almost all be contributed to our talent level. though some of his mistakes are just him. Orton is a game manager and a glorified one @ that.
Brewster says: We, we? You’re doing the contract negotiations for the Broncos? If so, you might also consider paying Marshall something near what he’s worth before he bolts Denver for a fair contract as soon as he can.
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Correct. Marshall, Dumervil, and Orton. They will get their money.
Any other smartass comments? Good, shutty.
Brewster says: We, we? You’re doing the contract negotiations for the Broncos? If so, you might also consider paying Marshall something near what he’s worth before he bolts Denver for a fair contract as soon as he can.
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We (The Broncos) will pay Orton, Marshall, and Dumervil…you can count on that.
You, my friend might consider your smartass attitude…Dolt.
To Bronco_Fan_Tom.
I agree that some of my comments are sarcastic and some might even say smartass, as you do.
However I am not overtly arrogant as you seem to be, to assume I know everything and no one else on this site knows anything as evidenced by your post on this subject.
“Bronco_Fan_Tom says:
December 10, 2009 10:59 AM
It seems not a soul here knows squat…especially the “expert” Florio. Florio is a Cutler lovin’ retard.
And at the moment I don’t have any other smartass comments to add, when I do you can be assured I will do so. If you don’t like them don’t read them or feel free to criticize me again.
I wonder if theres a chance that Matt Cassell could still become a Bronco. Im pretty sure that McDaniels hasnt lost his confidence in him b/c of his performance this year. McDaniels knows him better then anyone so you would think if he wanted him before he would still want him.
Since the Chiefs have benched him (atleast for part of a game) and it doesnt seem like its working out there is there any chance they might want to get what they can for him now and start fresh?
Or maybe more realistically give it another year and if it doesnt work out then try to trade him? McDaniels will probly have Orton for just 1 more year so the stars might a line perfectly for this to happen.
People today dont look at sports IQ as a measure for success. They most look at physical tools which is often the wrong measuring stick. The nba is full of 7 footers, who jump well who are taken early in the draft but often fail in the NBA. there are many 99mph pitchers who dont even make it in the major leagues. Peyton MANNING SAYS the most important attributes of a quarterback is studying the game at an elite level,reading defenses, and an ability to see things when the play deveops quickly, and to be able to look at 2nd and third options quickly when you are being pressured defensively, and then to be accurate under duress. Peyton says most college quarterbacks can make 95 percent of all the throws in the pro game. Very rarily does the quarterback have to throw the ball over 60 yards, and all pro quarterbacks can do that. If you look at top quarterbacks Drew Brees and Tom Brady they have very average arm strenghth. Like Payton they understand the game is about accuracy and making the right decisions. That SMALL WINDOW THAT ONLY SOME QUARTERBACKS CAN THROW IN IS RISKY AND STUPID TO EVEN TRY IT. It is smart to be a game manager. When you throw the ball deep 50 yards or more, or in a tight window the defensive backs are to fast and you often throw an interception. You cant keep taking risky passes and expect to be successful. That is Why Jay Cutler will never be successful and never has been winning wise even in high school or college. How in the world do people think he can then be successful in the pros. The WOW
People still dont get it. It is about sports IQ, not how strong of an arm you have. Peyton Manning says that knowing when to throw and being able to do ti under durress, and to be able to look at 2nd and third options quickly is what is most important. Havent you guys learned enough about the strong arm quarterback like Jeff George and the guy from the raiders usually are not successsful. Look at Drew Brees and Tom brady they have very average arms. Some people have an Iq of understanding the game some just dont ahve it and cant get it. This is why cutler has always thrown lots of interceptions and never wins much even in high school or college. The long throws manning said are hardly attempted, and when they are the defensive backs are to fast and it often ends in an int. So why do it much? You dont need the strong arm that gives you a false sense of security that you can make a throw in a small window and more often then not it is an interception. manning says it is better to be more of a game manager and not even attempt it. Who knows more here you guys or PEYTON MANNNING?
Based on the above comments I think Orton would be a good franchise quarterback. Cutler throws alot and has lots of yards because his teams always have to come back instead of getting a lead and playing conservative. Most people are WOWed because of arm strength and those throws are stupid to even attempt even if you ahve success sometimes according to Peyton Manning who knows more about what it takes to be successful then you arm chair quarterbacks. Making certain throws he says has very little to do with success in the NFL. this is why Brian Urlacker implies he would have orton over cutler. These pros get it and you dont. Orton does a lot of game management when his teams get a head, and his injury has hurt him rescently. I think he has the tools to be an elite quarterback, and so does phillip rivers. But you guys must knwo more then these guys because you are WOWed by the flashy, but not consistency.
Brian Urlacher infers that he would rather have Kyle Orton rather then Cutler. Why? Why do you think Mcdaniels likes Orton over Cassell, and Cassell over Cutler. People will fail to listen to wiser council and give excuses for Cutler no matter how bad he is, without looking at patterns throughout his career since high school. Analyst Phil Simms even says Orton has the tools to be a great quarterback. He throws it away when there is risk and that is what you should do. Arm chair quarterbacks dont realize that success in the NFL has alot to do with the field position game, turnovers, defense, and often ball control. When are people going to WAKE UP AND STOP BEING WOWED BY PHYSICAL TOOLS IN ALL SPORTS, AND LOOK AT IQ. There are so many examples of this being correct that people should get it by now. UNBELIEVEABLE. Farve said the reason he is having his best year is because he has given up his gun slinging mentality and play more conservative. Then he can surprise the defense once in awhile with a longer pass which all NFL quarterbacks can make.
Denver fans, if you think about it John Elway won his super bowls when he decided to play more conservative and be a game manager. If you look at super bowls past and presents. The winning QB’s were mostly the ones that played the game with the manage mentality. They turned the ball very little. When Manning and Brady had there great statistical years with all of their touchdown passes of 52 and 49 respectively, they didnt win the super bowl. When they were had more conservative stats they won. Montana beat Matino in the super bowl by playing more conservative and not makes mistake, where Marino was gunning the ball down field and the interceptions cost him. Many game managers with minimal stats like Rotheisburger, Plunkett, and the Ravens team won with Game managers.
Elway won his superbowls when he decided to be a game manager instead of a gun slinger.
Elway won super bowls when he became a game manager instead of a gun slinger
Hey Mike Florio, ol’ buddy. did you know that Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway’s lifetime QB rating was 79.9? And ol’ John won a couple Lombardi’s, if I remember correctly.
But really, I find Orton’s 76.9 career QB rating quite impressive. I mean, not bad for a QB who has played ½ of his non-rookie career on a high ankle sprain. Not bad at all . . .