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Appeals court refuses to grant rehearing in StarCaps case

In September, a three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit ruled that a federal judge in Minnesota properly sent back to the Minnesota court system drug-testing claims asserted under Minnesota statutory law by Minnesota Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams.

Now, the appeals court has rejected a request to reconsider its decision, according to the Associated Press.

Essentially, it was the Hail Mary pass before the Hail Mary pass of an appeal to the United States Supreme Court, which accepts for review only a fraction of the cases presented to it.

In 2008, Pat and Kevin Williams and multiple members of the Saints tested positive for a prescription diuretic that secretly had been placed into an over-the-counter supplement known as StarCaps.  The Williamses have avoided four-game suspensions due to the fact that the Minnesota statutes provide specific drug-testing protections that might have been violated as to the two Vikings players.

No such law prevented the suspensions of Saints defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith, but the NFL has decided not to suspend them, given the superficial appearance of unfairness resulting from suspensions being imposed on players from one team and not on players from another team for engaging in the same behavior.

The league has complained — loudly — about the union’s support of the attack on the steroids policy, but the union was simply fulfilling its obligation to represent its players.  The fact that the league has exclusive domain over the internal appeals process made the union’s decision to pursue judicial relief even more appropriate, in our view.

Regardless of those yawn-inducing details, today’s developments mean that there’s no way any of the players will be suspended during the 2009 regular season or postseason.

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58 Responses to “Appeals court refuses to grant rehearing in StarCaps case”
  1. chapnasty says: Dec 14, 2009 7:42 PM

    It is now 2009 nearly 2010… no one cared then and no one cares now. Move on.

  2. EricTheClown says: Dec 14, 2009 7:45 PM

    remember kids.. Cheaters Win

  3. Bob Loblaw says: Dec 14, 2009 7:47 PM

    Here come the complaints that the Vikings have some competitive advantage because judges in Minnesota are Vikings fans that allow players take steroids and other drugs.
    So let me start out by calling anyone with that complaint an ill-informed moron.
    All that happened is Minnesota has strong employee protection in its state laws. The NFL knew StarCaps contained a banned substance that was not listed as an ingredient, but hid that information from its employees (NFL players).
    The NFL’s claim is that players are responsible for knowing what they put in their bodies. In a state that favors employers over employees, state law would agree with the NFL.
    But Minnesota views the NFL’s decision to hide the information about the banned substance in StarCaps from its employees as an infringement on employee rights because the employee is punished (i.e. suspended without pay) for action taken by the employer (not communicating the fact that it knew StarCaps contained a banned substance not listed as an ingredient).
    At least the NFL showed fairness in postponing (and perhaps lifting) the suspension for the Saints players who also tested positive.

  4. CanadianVikingFan says: Dec 14, 2009 7:49 PM

    Sweet! Now que; Bob Nelson, JimmySmith, GBP, LBPackerfan or anyone else who continues to post their garbage here about how they should be suspended and how it is unfair and all that hate. But none of it matters because whatever they say wont change the ruling. Go on guys bitch about it, wont change a thing.

  5. cusoman says: Dec 14, 2009 7:50 PM

    I’m sure we’ll still get Bob Nelson’s amazing legal take on this one, despite the fact that its over and the Williams Wall is here to stay.
    Justice is served.

  6. leatherneck says: Dec 14, 2009 8:20 PM

    In other news cheeseheads are now declared a violation of the safe food and drug act.

  7. chunky soupy sales says: Dec 14, 2009 8:21 PM

    The Williamses have avoided four-game suspensions due to the fact that the Minnesota statutes provide specific drug-testing protections that might have been violated as to the two Vikings players.
    So, in short, Vikings players can fail any drug tests and nothing can be done?
    It’s a wonder players don’t flock there.

  8. GBP says: Dec 14, 2009 8:24 PM

    Cheaters prosper in minnesota. Not publicizing does not equate to hiding.

  9. bluestree says: Dec 14, 2009 8:26 PM

    Despite what Florio thinks about the US Supreme Court granting a cert petition on this it is an interesting case that could effect drug testing for pilots, flight attendants, truck drivers and others who work for large companies that conduct interstate commerce. I’d like the high court to weigh in on this. Let’s see…employee rights… Justices Alito… Roberts… Thomas…yeah, ok. Florio’s right. Case closed on this one.

  10. Hail2ThaRedskins says: Dec 14, 2009 8:28 PM

    There is nothing unfair about Williams’ being allowed to play. They did not take steriods, they did not recieve any competitive advantage.
    The league really needs to let this one go. This is not a battle they need to fight and it is not likely they will win. Keeping this is the news with all these appeals just makes them look bad.

  11. GBP says: Dec 14, 2009 8:35 PM

    Hey bob loblow, your an idiot. Just becuase you didn’t know it was illegal to hump an elephant on Tuesdays outfront of city hall in Minneapolis doesn’t mean the city was hiding it from you. It’s a law and your “I didn’t know because they didn’t tell me” excuse doesn’t make it legal you elephant humping freak.
    I’m just saying, hiding and not publicizing are two completely different things. And your guys are cheaters. Not that this specific story has anything to do with your present success. Like I said I’m just saying.

  12. westbrook 36 says: Dec 14, 2009 8:37 PM

    It wouldn’t be fair for the Saints players not to get suspended for taking steroids (unknowingly) yet the Eagles CB Hanson gets a 4 game suspension for testing positive for a diuretic that he wasn’t aware of. Diuretics don’t enhance performance, steroids do, yet the diuretic punishment given out was worse.
    How can the league have that position? I love the timing too. He tested positive last year and they suspend him the same week that the Eagles lose their other CB Hobbs. I know it was a coincidence, it just makes the double standard harder to swallow.

  13. purple hay-seuss says: Dec 14, 2009 8:37 PM

    Bobby Nelson has diagnosed and managed the collar bone injury for Matthew Stafford on the Detroit page, he’s flaunted his intellect on the Green Bay page and he’s assaulted us here repeatedly. There is no reason that he doesn’t declare himself an attorney as well as a physician and actuary and moralistic leader and Minnesota weatherman (boy, that Doppler radar gets the chicks, eh Bobby?)
    If there is no overturning of this case by the NFL, and the NFL ‘loses’, you can expect to hear absolutely nothing about it in the sports press. The big guys can’t allow a perception that they lost.
    Sure the idiot haters around here will bitch and spit, but that’s what they do. Watch and see: if Minny beats the Packers at the Hump in the playoffs, and one of the Wall has much to do with it, the screaming will ratchet up to the heavens. If GB does the unlikely and reverses the previous results, they’ll scream anyway, about how they beat us with our fat cheater tackles and our has been, Packer cast-off Geezer quarterback. But hey, they’ve got to A) get in and B) beat Arizona or whomever else gets that seed. The playoffs are shaping up to be very very interesting and fun.
    I expect Jackson to play much more now, after Favre starts, of course, and for Peterson to get fewer touches, too. Chester is in a Free Agent year and they’ll want to show him how much he means to us. I really hope he gets enough love to stay here.

  14. chunky soupy sales says: Dec 14, 2009 8:41 PM

    Why are diuretics illegal anyway? Medication for high blood pressure is a diuretic. As black people are really affected with HBP, I would say that many in the league are taking a diuretic in some form.
    All a diuretic does is make you pee like crazy, so how this gives you any advantage, I don’t know.
    I have taken HBP medication before. Believe me, having to pee every five minutes is no advantage.

  15. Allied Biscuit says: Dec 14, 2009 8:43 PM

    I’m sure Bob Nelson and Jimmy Smith will enlighten us with why Minnesotan’s are the demons of the earth shortly.

  16. mike says: Dec 14, 2009 8:49 PM

    Dont you think that this case makes the nfl more willing to let the team move?
    So was it common knowledge thats the ingredients of starcaps masked the use of steroids?

  17. Quagmire says: Dec 14, 2009 8:49 PM

    In 2008, Pat and Kevin Williams and multiple members of the Saints tested positive for a prescription diuretic that secretly had been placed into an over-the-counter supplement known as StarCaps.
    You forget to mention that the league warned the teams & union about using StarCaps…if the players knew there was a potential problem they should pay the price.
    An Eagles player was suspended, 4 games, for the same type of offense (different brand of product).

  18. 1mge says: Dec 14, 2009 8:50 PM

    All other NFL teams should also get 2 free passes if their players should test positive for a banned substance. That would be the only fair way to compensate other teams that can’t use this “ok to break rules” loophole.

  19. thekodinator says: Dec 14, 2009 8:52 PM

    In other news, the states of Wisconsin and Illinois have just passed legislation prohibiting the enforcement of penalties against the Packers or Bears in their respective home states.
    (This makes equally as much sense as allowing Minnesota players to get away with prohibited substances while no players on other teams can. I’m curious as to what the NFLPA would say to players on other teams that ask why they can’t take the same supplements that Vikings players can.)

  20. bluestree says: Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM

    Hail2ThaRedskins says:
    December 14, 2009 8:28 PM
    There is nothing unfair about Williams’ being allowed to play. They did not take steriods, they did not recieve any competitive advantage.
    _____________________________
    Diuretics can be used to flush other things from your body.

  21. KeithRK says: Dec 14, 2009 9:07 PM

    Actually all it means is that the Vikings players won’t be suspended before the case is heard in state court. The state case can still rule in favor of the league at which point the players will be suspended.

  22. bluestree says: Dec 14, 2009 9:28 PM

    KeithRK says:
    December 14, 2009 9:07 PM
    Actually all it means is that the Vikings players won’t be suspended before the case is heard in state court. The state case can still rule in favor of the league at which point the players will be suspended.
    _______________________________
    I don’t think the state court will will want to make an exception to the state statute on this, given the NFL knew of, and could have specifically warned players of, a banned substance not on the label, but hidden within (and that being in itself a bit dodgey on the part of the manufacturer) an otherwise acceptable supplement.

  23. GB3Pack4 says: Dec 14, 2009 9:34 PM

    ” … today’s developments mean that there’s no way any of the players will be suspended during the 2009 regular season or postseason.”
    Why the qualification? Can they still be suspended in 2010?

  24. bigrig says: Dec 14, 2009 9:41 PM

    I am really impressed with Viking’s fans. Almost 50 years of never winning anything. Most of you probably haven’t even had the viewing pleasure of seeing the Vikings lose a SB [33 years ago].
    The team is bouncing between getting a new stadium or possibly moving. Their best season in a decade comes during a year they are at best second in the conference to the Saints. Yet these poor folks keep coming back for more.
    Cling to this team while you still have them. Ask yourselves this. If someone offered you a bigger, better home with smaller payments and you also didn’t have to shovel piles of snow out of your driveway six months out of the year, what would do?

  25. JimmySmith says: Dec 14, 2009 10:04 PM

    Right now, there are two sets of rules for the NFL, one comprehensive policy for 31 teams and the other is for MN (soon to be LA) Vikings.
    Karma does have its own justice system and with the playoffs right around the corner, if I were a Viking fan (right after I get a full frontal lobotomy so I can think as rationally as these Biqueen posters), I would be bragging too hard just yet.
    Look, the Williams sisters were caught with an illegal substance in their system, that much is fully acknowledged. Instead of taking like a man (something a lot of Viking fans can relate to since their significant other is often named Bruce), they hid behind a season ticket holding state judge. If that makes you proud, don’t let the facts get in your way.

  26. Adept says: Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM

    To clarify: Minnesota employment law prohibits employers from taking action against employers for using LEGAL substances. Legal in the sense of the law, not what the NFL says. The diuretic in StarCaps (bumetenide or something like that) is not against the law to sell.
    And for the person asking what’s the big deal with diuretics? They can be potentially used to help mask steroid use by helping to flush the system. I don’t think the Williams’ used them for such but I’m also a Vikings fan.

  27. DCViking says: Dec 14, 2009 10:30 PM

    JimmySmith -
    Have your proctologist call me and let me know if your lobotomy was a success…
    Where’s your boy little Bobby Nelson with his incessent whining on the subject…
    @GB3Pack4 —
    My understanding is that the trial is just put off — all parties could still be suspended for next year. All the Williams’ have won to this point is a delay…

  28. Bob Nelson says: Dec 14, 2009 10:50 PM

    The case of these NFL steroid rules violators is not over. Their suspensions have been delayed over two seasons due to injunctive relief.
    They have yet to appear in the Minnesota State Courts for their substance abuse violations of the NFL’s steroid use prohibitions.
    It is rather shocking to see how many illiterate uncivilized cretins can’t even read the summary that Mike Florio wrote. Worse yet they cheer for lazy obese cheaters who were cheating on the vikings, the NFL, and the public trust in NFL players.
    Granted that vikings players are saddled with a poor reputation once they arrive in Minnesota for their repeated offenses against the community(see Turd Watch). Yet the league has not kept on this franchise as promised since the Commissioner met with Zygi Wilf regarding the immoral condition of his team following Criminal Cruise string of incidents.
    This continuing legal theory that they are so stupid and irresponsible that are not liable for the things they ingest will not play out well, even with the Minnesota public.
    The ongoing years of bad publicity have the Minnesota electorate upset and they will not vote for a new stadium for a team of players that endanger Minnesotans. Most recently you had 2 very irresponsible low wonderlic jerks driving over 104 mph on the icy December winter roads of Minnesota.
    These fat obese performance enhancing drug abuse violating cheaters grate against the moral fiber of Minnesota. They want the rulebreakers, criminals, and their spineless milktoast coach moved out of the state.
    The NFL will ram this point home with the players union that has demonstrated no minimal moral standards for their membership.

  29. Fire Ted says: Dec 14, 2009 11:17 PM

    Remember, MN is the state that put a pro (sic) wrestler in the Governor’s shanty and elected (cheated) a half-assed comedian as US Senator….their political structure is a sick combination of NAMBLA and the prom committee. Retards.

  30. bigrig says: Dec 14, 2009 11:43 PM

    If you were involved in a business that conducted interstate commerce and a certain state kept ruling against you in the courts, would you want to continue doing business in that state?
    Hello LA!

  31. bustabloodvessel says: Dec 14, 2009 11:46 PM

    Please everyone, DO NOT respond to anything bob nelson or fire ted have to say. Maybe they will just go away. I don’t think anyone involved should be suspended. Look at all the guys in trouble with this case. Everyone is a big guy. None of them took it to mask steroids, they just wanted to lose some weight before camp. The big question I have is why hasn’t anyone gone after starcaps for not including this ingredient on the label? Isn’t there some sort of law that requires them to list ALL ingredients? Maybe they have and I just haven’t heard about it.

  32. footballisfun says: Dec 15, 2009 12:09 AM

    As someone who has suffered from hearing all of the right-wing nut jobs in this country – since Raygun – complain against the federal government, and praise states rights, it’s a pure joy to hear them now complain AGAINST state rights because of this ruling.
    Sadly, rightwingers are too stupid to see the irony.

  33. DocBG says: Dec 15, 2009 12:29 AM

    @ bob, your team elects rapists into their hall of fame. Granted, a jury of his “season ticket holding” peers let him off because of the efforts of Favre during a season, but still. you are worried about what happened between consenting adults (love boat) and ignoring what happened between a man and a child. a pedophile if ever there was one. get a clue douchebag.

  34. Hail2ThaRedskins says: Dec 15, 2009 12:54 AM

    bluestree & Adept,
    I am aware that diuretucs can be used to conceal the use of other illegal substances. But the league has already conceeded that was not the case with these players!
    That is why I think it is so asinine that they are pushing this one. They know they players weren’t taking steriods, they could have warned them specificially that StarCaps had the league banned substance in it even though it wasn’t on the label, but they wanted to make an example of them and it backfired. Just let it go already. Close the loophole in the next CBA and work with the union to keep players informed instead of trying to entrap them.

  35. Jungle Juice says: Dec 15, 2009 12:55 AM

    So they are letting the cheaters get away with it. Saints and Vikings fans. If you get to or win the SuperBowl there will be nothing to “flush” out the Cheater stigma attached to any accomplishment. Everyone will always remember that these guys obviously took steroids and tried to hide it with StarCaps.

  36. Lost says: Dec 15, 2009 1:18 AM

    PackerFan can go pee up a rope. Or anywhere else the employer specifies.
    You clowns could try aim for the cup but the way things have been going you’d probably miss and spill all over your boss’ hand.

  37. purplejesus28 says: Dec 15, 2009 1:28 AM

    so many jealous people. if you lived in forward-thinking states (where employees are protected) instead of states where you can marry your sister and make babies, maybe you would understand the rights of others. Adept has some good info for you morons. even if it was an illegal substance, an employee can not be punished for one failed drug test. they have to be given the opportunity to get themselves clean, normally at the expense of the employer.
    @JimmySmith
    “Instead of taking like a man ” What? are you Ms. Swan from MadTV? I do admit you were right about the two sets of rules though. The standard rules of football that apply to the league and the other set that get overlooked when playing the Vikings. The refs hold a grudge from getting cracked in the face after the “Pearson Push” Hail Mary game.
    “icy December winter roads of Minnesota” and by this statement I assume you do not live here (yeah!) but it is not fact. a quick science nugget, you need both precipiation and below freezing temperatures to make ice. we didn’t have that combination until just recently, well after the mentioned incidents. doesn’t excuse it, but just another example of how ignorant you are.
    @Bob Nelson
    “the public trust in NFL players” Like those convicted of vehicular manslaughter? Dog-fighting? Murder? yeah, they’re much more trusted than the average citizen.
    No wonder you turds have no friends on pft.

  38. Beer Cheese Soup says: Dec 15, 2009 1:44 AM

    DocBG says:
    @ bob, your team elects rapists into their hall of fame.
    ____________________________________
    Innocent until proven guilty dumbass. Even more innocent when ACQUITTED! The NFL’s case against the Williams’ fat asses was indeed a pile of crap, but if that (or Jolly’s cough syrup binge) is the best argument you have, you might as well pack it in.
    Bob is enough of a moron all on his own. You don’t need to join him.

  39. Elgar says: Dec 15, 2009 1:58 AM

    It is no surprise that states are empowered to enact state laws. This has been part of the Constitution since 1791. The twenty-eight-word Tenth Amendment in the Bill of Rights is quite clear about it: If authority is not granted to the the federal government by the Constitution itself, the power resides with the states and with the people. Federal law only trumps state law where the Constitution says it does. This country was founded to bring freedom to the people, not to make life easier for lazy lawyers and administrators being paid at large sporting leagues. Minnesotans are not exempt from drug policies. The policies being used just have to be legal.

  40. Saint33 says: Dec 15, 2009 3:29 AM

    the moronic ignorance of some of the bitter fans on this board is unbelievable.
    If you don’t know the simple facts you shouldn’t be commenting on the subject.

  41. Fire Ted says: Dec 15, 2009 7:03 AM

    Um, Pervy, I served eight years in the Marine Corps, including Desert Storm…dumbass. As to whether Ventura was a seal, who cares….the Navy is the farm system for the Corps, plus he is a dumbass. I also noticed you have no halfwit comeback for why exactly Al Franken got elected? Lastly, I don’t have a sister, so you are the expert on sleeping with your sister….while your mom takes pictures and laughs at your tiny junk.
    How exactly is Minnesota forward thinking? That’s effing hilarious. Maybe if they were forward thinking, they wouldn’t have a shithole stadium that has lost 2/3 of its tenants over the last year in prime Minneapolis real estate with no real plan what to do for the Vikings and this ridiculous hope that if “Favre gets us a Super Bowl” we’ll get a new house….effing hilarious.
    As for “all the guys involved being big,” Deuce McCallister is involved, and was not trying to lose weight…and the rules are the rules.
    As to states’ rights, the NFL is unique…the “union” status of the NFL should not be compared to a typical labor union. The only reason the union exists in the NFL is to wring more money out of the owners. Playing in the NFL is a privelage and state labor laws have no place in this situation. It’s a cop out.

  42. Bigskyvikes says: Dec 15, 2009 8:41 AM

    bigrig says:
    December 14, 2009 9:41 PM
    I am really impressed with Viking’s fans. Almost 50 years of never winning anything. Most of you probably haven’t even had the viewing pleasure of seeing the Vikings lose a SB [33 years ago].
    The team is bouncing between getting a new stadium or possibly moving. Their best season in a decade comes during a year they are at best second in the conference to the Saints. Yet these poor folks keep coming back for more.
    Cling to this team while you still have them. Ask yourselves this. If someone offered you a bigger, better home with smaller payments and you also didn’t have to shovel piles of snow out of your driveway six months out of the year, what would do?
    ————————————————
    This all from a guy (yet to be determined) who hovers around PFT to find Viking post’s, and he says we cling, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    If you, bob dumbassnelson, jimmydipsmith could only see how idiotic you guys look on here, continually following Viking posts and spewing shit out of your butt holes.
    The funny thing is how CONSUMED you three are and GBP, might as well through in fire gay ted also.
    Its really sad how you guys look, so threatened you all are!!

  43. sand0 says: Dec 15, 2009 8:44 AM

    In MN we don’t allow employers to suspend employees and retract over a million dollars in pay for them having a legal substance in their blood stream unless said employee has his day in court.
    It is our law. The NFL made a rule that couldn’t be held in court the way they were hoping. Deal with it haters.
    They could still be suspended, but they first get to plead their case. I know you want them to be suspended for the playoffs so bad you can taste it but this isn’t about Packer fans and NFL policy sticklers. It is about the rights of two men under MN state law.

  44. Bob says: Dec 15, 2009 8:46 AM

    The Saints have benefited from Will Smith’s presence, but Charles Grant is a liability. So this has been a Seinfeld event for the Saints (Kramer: “You’re Even Steven!!”)

  45. Bigskyvikes says: Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM

    Jungle Juice says:
    December 15, 2009 12:55 AM
    So they are letting the cheaters get away with it. Saints and Vikings fans. If you get to or win the SuperBowl there will be nothing to “flush” out the Cheater stigma attached to any accomplishment. Everyone will always remember that these guys obviously took steroids and tried to hide it with StarCaps
    ————————————————–
    Yeah, If one of these teams win there should be an asteric after the win, right?
    What an effing moron.
    This happened a season ago, they just havent been punished for it yet, it was proven they were not hiding steroids with this, so what is your point, exactley?
    Keep your mouth shut, there is enough retarded, non-educated comments on the Viking post’s from real bitter rival fans, we dont need yours.

  46. Ambrose says: Dec 15, 2009 8:54 AM

    The policy was unclear in the first place, so who gives a crap. And some players (like them) will look for any fringe-dwelling substance-advantage that they can, pushing the envelope all the way. Maybe these fat bookends were influenced by their fans and just trying to lose weight, like so many other Minnesotans. If these guys are so good, why the extra push? No confidence?

  47. bustabloodvessel says: Dec 15, 2009 10:05 AM

    Fire ted,
    If you truly served, much love and respect, but don’t start the our branch is the best crap. You served the United States, just like everyone in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. Treat them all with respect, for they are all your brothers in arms.

  48. Bigskyvikes says: Dec 15, 2009 10:34 AM

    bustabloodvessel says:
    December 15, 2009 10:05 AM
    Fire ted,
    If you truly served, much love and respect, but don’t start the our branch is the best crap. You served the United States, just like everyone in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. Treat them all with respect, for they are all your brothers in arms.
    ————————————————-
    Spoken like a true PATRIOT!!!!!!
    Very nice, and thank you, I didnt serve, but I assume you did, so thank you again.

  49. PervyHarvin says: Dec 15, 2009 10:59 AM

    @ FireTed- Grow up man,act like a soldier. I’m all Army 95 Bravo to the bone dude but will never slam the other branches. Like a football team dude,you need different units to get the job done. BTW-I don’t give a rats ass about Al Franken. Quit talking about my junk Nancy.

  50. bustabloodvessel says: Dec 15, 2009 11:07 AM

    Regretably, I did not. My father, his father, and his father did serve, so I know the sacrifice all make, even during peace time.

  51. footballrulz says: Dec 15, 2009 11:17 AM

    @bustabloodvessel
    Nice comment about serving the US. I’m an Army vet but have respect for anyone who serves in any capacity including the Caost Guard & Border Patrol. It’s a contractual obligation to put your life on the line for your country & I’m proud to say I served my time as I’m sure many here have.

  52. Tompadre says: Dec 15, 2009 11:44 AM

    Beer says:
    Innocent until proven guilty dumbass. Even more innocent when ACQUITTED!
    ————————————————–
    Just llike in the OJ case, right?
    In a court of law they don’t find a defendant “innocent”, they find them “not guilty”. There is a significant difference between the two.

  53. Tompadre says: Dec 15, 2009 12:04 PM

    Interesting that Fire Ted should spend eight years in the servicce, including time in Desert Storm, fighting for our safety, our freedoms, our rights, yet doesn’t believe in states rights in this situation.
    For you GB fans referring to the Williams Wall as fat I have just one question: Have you taken a look at the lard-arses you have on your d-line? For that matter, take a look at any offensive or defensive line.

  54. Tompadre says: Dec 15, 2009 12:15 PM

    Bob Nelson -
    Hornung, Jolly, Harris, Barnett, Chmura, Favre, Robinson, Cade…
    Gambling, drugs, battery, rape, spousal abuse, drinking with minors, speeding…
    Yep, the Packers got it all covered.
    As the old saying goes there Bobber, “idiots who live in glass houses…”
    (You GB fans better hope C Matthews is using a diuretic for masking purposes as well)

  55. Beer Cheese Soup says: Dec 15, 2009 1:25 PM

    Tompadre says:
    Beer says:
    Innocent until proven guilty dumbass. Even more innocent when ACQUITTED!
    ————————————————–
    Just llike in the OJ case, right?
    In a court of law they don’t find a defendant “innocent”, they find them “not guilty”. There is a significant difference between the two.
    ____________________________________
    Yes, there is a difference, but “innocent until proven guilty” is still a true principle.
    We all have our opinions on OJ. Many of you seem to have similar thoughts on Chmura. However, they are considered innocent until proven guilty, and both men were most certainly NOT proven guilty!
    If you feel the need to validate Bob Nelson’s Oxycontin-fueled insane ramblings with the puerile playground retort of “but they did it too!”, by all means do so. All I ask, however, is that you find a Packer player who was actually CONVICTED, so as to have a actual respectable argument. There are several to choose from.
    and THEN Tompadre says:
    (You GB fans better hope C Matthews is using a diuretic for masking purposes as well)
    ___________________________________
    That’s hilarious. Got any facts to back that accusation up? Of course not. Just “OMG, that fudgie’s played good ans stuff.. he must be on drugs!!!1!”
    You redneck idiots have spent so much time not caring about your team, now that they’re doing well you don’t even know what you’re watching. At least it’s good for a laugh.

  56. jeffisaturdandwhacksoffdaily says: Dec 15, 2009 2:43 PM

    They need to get the cheaters and suspend them like everyone else. Im sick of this.,

  57. Tompadre says: Dec 16, 2009 5:23 AM

    Beer -
    In the court of law they may be seen as innocent, but just as you Packer fans have crucified Viking players who turned out to be “innocent”, they still can be deemed guilty in the court of public opinion. And as I stated “not guilty” does not mean they were found “innocent”! This would pertain to your absurd comment of “Even more innocent when ACQUITTED!” Talk about a juvenile playground retort!
    I’m not saying “they did it too”. I’m saying it is incredibly hypocritocal for Packer fans to bash Viking players for their troubles with the law when Green Bay’s had their fair share of the same over the years. I figured people knew the rest of the “glass house” saying. Sorry I gave you too much credit.
    I live in LA (what hick town are you from again?) and witnessed the small framed, light weight Matthews walk on at USC. His starting job at USC coincided with his relatively sudden weight and muscle mass gain. The rumors here were based in the same supposition that followed Barry Bonds for years.
    For the longest time I had a tendency to side with you in your tiffs with Supersucker & Adam Scheft, but now I understand their opinions of you.
    Don’t you have some fire Ted posters to make? You know, that guy who has your team primed for a second playoff appearance in the last three years.

  58. jeff says: Dec 16, 2009 8:46 AM

    jeffisaturdandwhacksoffdaily says:
    December 15, 2009 2:43 PM
    They need to get the cheaters and suspend them like everyone else. Im sick of this.,
    ==========================
    They are, they just re-indicted Johnny Jolly!
    I bet you he pooped his pants!
    I thought codeine constipated you?…hmmm

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