Packers G.M. Ted Thompson experienced one of his career lows on November first when Green Bay lost to Brett Favre's Vikings for a second time. And then lost to the Bucs a week later.
At 4-4, the Packers faithful was howling for a full scale demolition to the team's front office and coaching staff.
Since then, the Packers have won five of six games and sit on the doorstep of the playoffs. The howling has quieted down, and it's largely because of one of Thompson's better rookie classes.
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel does an instructive breakdown of the group Wednesday. In linebacker Clay Matthews, the team has a Rookie of the Year candidate. He's a prototypical 3-4 outside linebacker.
Seventh-round pick Brad Jones may start opposite Matthews for the next five years.
First round defensive tackle B.J. Raji, fourth-round offensive lineman T.J. Lang and fifth-round fullback Quinn Johnson are all contributing and look like future starters.
Thompson has suffered his share of missteps, especially on the offensive line. But many of his most high profile decisions -- choosing Aaron Rodgers over Brett Favre, signing Charles Woodson, and trading Corey Williams -- look pretty damn good in retrospect.
Even the move to a 3-4 defense has worked quicker than anyone imagined.
The Packers roster is far from perfect, but they have as much homegrown young talent as any team in the league. The idea of starting over from scratch seemed as crazy back on November 1 as it does now.
Packers rookies quickly making an impact
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 23, 2009 8:05 AM ET
Clay Matthews is the rookie of the year and Charles Woodson is the defensive player of the year.
Rookies HAVE to make an impact with this team in order for it to win, because there are no free agents. It is a single fail system, EVERY draft has to be a spectacular success for this team to have a winning record since TT will continue to ignore FA combined with the fact that GB has become one of the least desirable teams to play for since TT arrived according to a recent players poll. That is why the Pack may roll off a winning season here and there, but will never go to a SB under TT.
I agreed with the decision to move on without BF. And I really didn't expect this season to be a huge improvement over last year. I am mostly excited about the next few years with the talent and schemes this young team is working with. Any post-season progress they make this year is frosting on the cake.
Emoney says:
December 23, 2009 8:14 AM
Clay Matthews is the rookie of the year and Charles Woodson is the defensive player of the year.
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I absoluetly agree.
I thought the Packers defense would crash and burn this year. It usually takes two or three years to get a defense converted from 4-3 to 3-4 or vice versa.
If you really think about it, getting rid of Brett Favre helped us get Clay Matthews. The pick that we got from NY for Brett was part of the trade to New England that moved us up to get Matthews.
So thanks Brett! You just gave us our outside linebacker of the future! Cheers!
Next year will be a crucial year for Thompson. He needs to shore up the secondary and the O-line. And a new kicker is almost a given.
# GBP says: December 23, 2009 8:34 AM
Emoney says:
December 23, 2009 8:14 AM
Clay Matthews is the rookie of the year and Charles Woodson is the defensive player of the year.
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I absoluetly agree.
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A Packers fans agrees? Shocking.
Too bad any sustained success will not come.
Tell me, how do you sign 8 starters and 2 high profile rotation guys at 1 time?
It isn't happening, you will lose at least 5 of these guys, TT will not supplement with FA, he will rely on the draft.
He has to hit every year like he did this year.
And since you tools are so fond of past precedents,( favre, vikes choking) his track record is not good.
Enjoy being on the cusp of the playoffs, you aren't in yet.
You could easily slide back to 5-11 next year.
Collins, Bigby, Colledge, Tauscher, Pickett, Spitz,
Kampmann, Kuhn.
Jolly and Williams
Can't pay them all, when you don't you lose depth.
Fan of Football: if signing FA's was the ticket to the Super Bowl, using your logic, the Redskins should be #1, hands down.
What is ridiculous is the idea that TT hasn't signed free agents. Woodson(NFL Def. Player of the Year?), Ryan Pickett, starting nose tackle, Brandon Chillar, top reserve in three positions. He's also signed a number of homegrown free agents like Jennings. Sorry, the no FA argument is false.
Regarding Green Bay as the least likely spot for FA's...talk to the Packers players. Almost all of them like being there, once they get used to it. And in the end, any free agent will come to Green Bay for the cash. Remember a guy named Reggie White?
They don't need a new kicker. Crosby is in a slump. He's still among the Packers most accurate kickers.
Firing everybody only produces chaos. Ask the Redskins and the Raiders.
The highest payroll teams that sign every free agent do not win championships in football....ask Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder....
The Packers are building a quality team the right way
Charles Woodson - Free Agent
Brandon Chillar - Free Agent
Ryan Pickett - Free Agent
Core players all.
"Stupid is as stupid does."
# Fan of Football says: December 23, 2009 8:28 AM
"Rookies HAVE to make an impact with this team in order for it to win, because there are no free agents. It is a single fail system, EVERY draft has to be a spectacular success for this team to have a winning record since TT will continue to ignore FA combined with the fact that GB has become one of the least desirable teams to play for since TT arrived according to a recent players poll. That is why the Pack may roll off a winning season here and there, but will never go to a SB under TT."
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I am not buying into that. If GB makes the playoffs and wins some games there, the players will want to play there regardless of TT's presence.
Favre's departure, though controversial at the time, will prove not to be so controversial over time. IMO Favre's own actions are causing his legacy to be tarnished day by day. If he continues to tarnish his own legacy, the better it makes TT look.
The reason why NE is able to sign free agents, some at less than market value, is because of the SB's they have won in the past. They aren't going to NE for Belichick's sparkling personality.
yeah because you know they played such a hard schedule this year! i ask all of you who the hell have the packers played this year that has even looked liked they are playoff caliber other than the vikings? have they played any good offense at all other than the vikings? The answer is of course no. So packer fans dont get your hopes up there to high for the future once you play tougher teams those guys arent likely to do a damn thing other than woodson and matthews!
Uh, did Ted Thompson lick someone in a special spot to get this lame write up? Wow, a 1st round DT, a 4th round OL and a 5th round FB are all contibuting and are future starters. Yipee. Jaguars two starting tackles are rookies. Their starting NT, who is better than Raji and was a 3rd round pick, is a rookie. One starting CB, who for some reason never makes anyones' lists for ROY, Derek Cox, has started every game this year for the Jags. Russell Allen, a rookie free agent from Sad Diego St has started many games and will start the last two as Clint Ingram went to IR. That is 5 rookie starters for the Jaguars. This does not include the #3 receiver Mike Thomas or the pass catching TE Zach Miller. Again, who did Thompson lick and where to get this write up.
Thompson's strategy is starting to bear fruit with this year's class, can't say I'm upset about that at all.
Of the two FAs people were insistent over back in March, Canty and Olshansky, neither look like they're producing well enough for the Cowboys/Giants to be worth their 8M per year, but that doesn't mean the Pack wouldn't benefit from having some backup FA talent around either.
Our future lies with TT, better or worse, but right now it looks better so I'm optimistic.
If TT shores up the O-Line and gets some secondary help the Pack should be a strong team; they'll need it since they have to play the AFC/NFC East next year!
Yeah the notion that Thompson doesn't sign free agents is so overplayed. He doesn't sign stupid money free agents like Washington. Thankfully. I am so grateful we have Thompson. He has made some mistakes but you cannot really fault him because hindsight is 20/20. He has built this team to be a consistent winning team for a long time. Very grateful.
Fan of football:
Woodson and Pickett were FA, get your head out of your ass.
TT has done a very good job and has stuck to his belief of building through the draft.
also..thank goodness he made the most difficult decision in franchise history and shipped Favre . What a distraction he was for four offseasons. Minnesota is kind of getting a taste of his BS now. Some things need to stay in the locker room.
I would characterize losing Brent Favre to the Vikings as a "career low" Brent had some odd ideas that just because he was the QB that somehow he should have a say in personnel decisions and whether or not he should be required to show up for OTA's and training camp.
Call it, addition by subtraction, we moved our QB in waiting into the starting line up, moved our biggest headache out of town and got back to a team concept, something that was lost when Brent was around.
The fact that Packers ended up with Matthews out of the deal is only icing on the cake. Both Raji and Matthews will be star players in the NFL if they can remain healthy.
Emoney,
And Minn thanks Ted Thompson for the Division crown, which they would not have won without Brett Favre. Pack would have won it.
ted thompson has proved to be more insightful than a lot of greenbay fans.the idea that he gave favre the gate was a stroke of pure genius.how's favre working out in mimmy now folks.this hillbilly a hole thinks he knows more about football than anybody else.the swoon in minny will be beginning any minute now.watch the interceptions commence,the hillbilly thinks he's bigger than the game....a hole.
Thompson has put an outstanding team together and has managed the finances so we can retain our best players.
We're going to own the NFC for years to come.
Jeff,
You keep bringing up that same point over and over again. You keep holding out hope that we can't resign these players because you know we're in better shape than the Vikings for the future, ESPECIALLY at the most important position...QUARTERBACK! We have one that will play the next 10 years. Your QB may not play beyond this year, and next year, the rest of the NFL can listen to you guys bitch about T-Jak again. Then again, you may not have to worry about that. That may soon be L.A.'s problem.
And as far as our free agents go. Let's break it down.
We have money to resign Collins and Pickett. It'll get done. Collins will be restricted because of the collective bargaining agreement issues. If we lose Pickett, we have Raji to take his place.
Tausher was just a bandaid this year. TJ Lang has proven that he can handle that spot. Our only issue is what to do with Clifton. We'll need to draft a new Left Tackle.
Colledge sucks. Ask any Packer fan, and they'll all tell you they're not worried about him leaving. No other team will want him and we'll give him a lowball contract that he'll accept.
Spitz is coming off an injury. The Packers will have the upper hand there again. Besides, we have Scott Wells who is playing better at Center anyways.
Kampman can go pound sand for all we care. He is of no use to us anymore. Sucks that he got hurt, but that's the business of the NFL. He'll find a job elsewhere. Probably the Vikings since you guys take all of our scraps.
Kuhn? Really? You think we're worried about Kuhn? WE HAVE THREE FULLBACKS! I don't think we're worried about Kuhn.
Jolly can join the rest of the losers in Minnesota. He's only playing well this year because its a contract year. I'm not concerned about him.
Bigby is overrated. If we keep him, which I'm sure we'll offer him a short term deal, I'm sure he'll accept. I don't see teams around the league talking about how great Bigby is. He's a hitter and nothing more. Gets lost in coverage a lot of times.
Tramon Williams may ask for a lot, but we'll find a way to keep him. He's not Charles Woodson, so he can't expect to get a ton of money at this point yet.
So Jeff, what else do you wanna dispute and cry about?
I can't hear you haters from my personal lockerroom. And if I did, I just might start crying again and threaten to retire.
Fan of Mine (Football), did you finish hand washing my jocks? You better get them all done ASAP or I'll tell my bitch Chilly on you.
Seeryer: Nobody cares about your pathetic Jags squad, especially the people of Jacksonville given the attendance numbers at their home games.
romo9mvp says:
December 23, 2009 8:55 AM
yeah because you know they played such a hard schedule this year! i ask all of you who the hell have the packers played this year that has even looked liked they are playoff caliber other than the vikings? have they played any good offense at all other than the vikings? The answer is of course no. So packer fans dont get your hopes up there to high for the future once you play tougher teams those guys arent likely to do a damn thing other than woodson and matthews!
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THIS is a great post. Coming from a Cowboy fan, whom the Packers DOMINATED. LOL. Seriously, nice job on that garbage TD with a minute to play, it was impressive. Do the world a favor and keep your opinions to yourself until your team wins a meaningful game. When was your last playoff win? Sometime in the '90s?? hahahaha.
romo9MVP
Well they did play th ecowgirls and kicked the snot out of them............Moron
Minnesota won the division crown last year without BF. What a kick in the nuts it will be for them if one and done is all they get this year. Chilly and Farve are at each others throats, according to John Clayton of ESPN. They'll play lovey-dovey to get through this year, and then Farve moves on. Cleveland?
romo9mvp says:
December 23, 2009 8:55 AM
yeah because you know they played such a hard schedule this year! i ask all of you who the hell have the packers played this year that has even looked liked they are playoff caliber other than the vikings? have they played any good offense at all other than the vikings? The answer is of course no. So packer fans dont get your hopes up there to high for the future once you play tougher teams those guys arent likely to do a damn thing other than woodson and matthews!
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Romo9mvp,
Did you forget that we whooped your team's ass a few weeks ago? I guess your team sucks too then, huh?
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Fan of Football says:
December 23, 2009 9:07 AM
Emoney,
And Minn thanks Ted Thompson for the Division crown, which they would not have won without Brett Favre. Pack would have won it.
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Fan of Football,
You give Rodgers no credit. You're so in love with Favre and refuse the accept the reality that Favre's career is coming to an end. I understand that you hate TT, but quit hating on Rodgers. Rodgers doesn't control what goes on. He was put in the position and has stepped up well. Would you rather have Favre for 2-3 years and suck the next 10 years, or would you rather have Rodgers for the next 10-12 years and compete every year? Nevermind, I know what your answer will be. You're so blind to reality.
Minnesota can have the crown this year. That got them far last year in the playoffs, didn't it? You'll see how far it gets them this year too. Division crowns mean nothing. They only get you a top 4 seed in the playoffs. You think NY cared that they didn't get the NFC East crown in 2007? Look how far they went. Its all a matter of who gets hot at the right time. And last I checked, Minnesota hasn't looked that great in recent weeks. Good luck with your crown. If the Packers don't beat Minnesota, Philly sure as hell will.
How many years ago did TT sign Woodsen? How much longer are you going to hold onto that as TT's "impressive" FA record? The only reason he came to GB is because it was the only team offering him real money. Else, self admitedly too, he would have went elsewhere. Pickett? He has pretty much been a non-factor since Williams was traded.
3 of 4 years they have been the youngest team in the league. THAT is the problem with only building through the draft. Bringing in veterans helps....
What if he had tried a little harder in FA and found another Woodson in the last couple years? Maybe a good offensive Tackle....they may have had 2 more wins this year with a good o line earlier in the season with a veteran instead of rookies 23 and 24 year old youngsters
Emoney says: December 23, 2009 8:14 AM
Clay Matthews is the rookie of the year and Charles Woodson is the defensive player of the year.
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You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and sees what fills up first.
"And Minn thanks Ted Thompson for the Division crown, which they would not have won without Brett Favre. Pack would have won it."
Newsflash to so-called "Fan of Football" -- MN won the division last year WITHOUT Brett.
So pleased to hear you state that the Packers would have won this year if your team had not signed Brett.
Speaks volumes about the strength of that Minnesota team.
It's all coming together for TT...but he needs to go out and get some depth at OLB and the secondary. Kampman is essentially gone but didn't fit in the 3-4 anyway, and you have to question whether Harris can come back and be anything near the same. Who was all alone covering Wallace on Sunday?? I'd love to see him make a splash with a lineman as well, kind of like the Vikings did with Hutchinson a few years ago. And can the Brandon Jackson experiment finally end?
That's the frustrating thing...sometimes TT just sticks with these players to a point when it becomes a problem and when there was a better option in the offseason that he passed on.
It's really bugging me that he picked Jordy Nelson 10-15 spots above DeSean as well...ouch
"Pack may roll off a winning season here and there, but will never go to a SB under TT."
^^^^^
If you could step away from Favre's nut sack for long enough to catch a whiff of reality, you'd realize that the Packers were one drive away from the SB in 2007.
If you recall, your Lordship tossed another in the long line of legendarily devastating, season destroying INT's.
That one's not on TT.
Fan of Football says:
December 23, 2009 9:26 AM
Pickett? He has pretty much been a non-factor since Williams was traded.
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A non-factor? Last I checked, the Packers are the #2 ranked run defense in the league, above your Vikings. I believe the big man in the middle has something to do with that.
Know the facts before you speak.
RWFV says:
December 23, 2009 9:29 AM
You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and sees what fills up first.
----------------------------------------
How do you see it being wrong? Have you watched Matthews play this year?
And in case you haven't been paying attention, Woodson has been playing lights out this year.
Emoney
While it's great that you're able to debate jeff's facts with opinion and pure speculation, why don't you try some facts?
Just because Collins is restricted doesn't mean he's a lock to return. The Pack would have to match an offer, which could be pretty big. Colledge may suck, but he's the best you have. And Thompson hasn't proven himself capable of assembling a line, but is quite good at destroying one, so good bye Colledge, Tausch, and Spitz, who is your best center, which is why he is the starter.
Tramon will get payed, corners always do. And Harris will be 35 coming off of major surgery. What's he going to have left? It's also funny how Bigby is considered overrated now, considering everyone was praising Ted last year for finding a great player like Bigby.
And now to my favorite part of your post, "Kampman can go pound sand for all we care." Spoken like a true Packer fan. He gives Green Bay everything he had, and his thanks is some jerk off fan telling him to pound sand. Pretty much the standard for Packer fans.
Packers are in trouble, and Ted can't replace everyone in the draft. He misses way more than he hits
GO PACK GO,
COWBOYS SUCK.
17-7
FIRE TED.
Clay Matthews would certainly look good in a Patriots uniform right about now.
Fan of Foosball; You make it more obvious with each post that you know nothing about football. Ryan Pickett a non factor without Corey Williams? You are a capital G genuine idiot. You don't know the game, you don't follow the game, you are a fool of a person talking out your ass. Please continue to post on this thread all day, so your ignorance can be even more fully displayed.
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 9:46 AM
Emoney
While it's great that you're able to debate jeff's facts with opinion and pure speculation, why don't you try some facts?
Just because Collins is restricted doesn't mean he's a lock to return. The Pack would have to match an offer, which could be pretty big. Colledge may suck, but he's the best you have. And Thompson hasn't proven himself capable of assembling a line, but is quite good at destroying one, so good bye Colledge, Tausch, and Spitz, who is your best center, which is why he is the starter.
Tramon will get payed, corners always do. And Harris will be 35 coming off of major surgery. What's he going to have left? It's also funny how Bigby is considered overrated now, considering everyone was praising Ted last year for finding a great player like Bigby.
And now to my favorite part of your post, "Kampman can go pound sand for all we care." Spoken like a true Packer fan. He gives Green Bay everything he had, and his thanks is some jerk off fan telling him to pound sand. Pretty much the standard for Packer fans.
Packers are in trouble, and Ted can't replace everyone in the draft. He misses way more than he hits
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Ill give you this. You are entertaining.
As far as FAs go, the packers are in position to sign most of the key guys. A couple of tough decisions:
1. Likely will have to let either Pickett or Jolly go. I'm all for signing Pickett for 3 more years. I'd like both cuz Jolly is a good player.
2. Collins is a lock to be signed
3. Spitz and College will have to be TT's choice. I don't know if he'll sign them both but he likely won't let both go. To be honest, neither one is irreplacable.
4. They will try to keep Bigby who is underrated. He is an "above average" safety and roster economics shows teams don't usually have 2 studs back there. It'll depend on what he asks for.
5. Hawk will either accept less money or be cut. His deal was designed for renegotiation this season.
6. Kampman is likely gone. Outside shot that they tag him to get a pick but with the injury, I don't know.
So based on sound reasoning you will likely see the packers lose 1 or 2 players that will create a negative impact. Pretty common today.
TT will have work to do on the O line and Secondary. How he handles this offseason is very key IMO. I am not a huge fan but I'm tempered because he is a far better GM than most teams have.
Jimmy: "Newsflash to so-called "Fan of Football" -- MN won the division last year WITHOUT Brett."
Yes, and NEWSFLASH: The Pack were also 6-10 last year. This year the Pack are 9-5 and would easily be in the lead for the Div crown this year if Minn didn't have Brett Favre. Minn thanks you Ted!
"If you recall, your Lordship tossed another in the long line of legendarily devastating, season destroying INT's."
Yes, I do recall that after the Pack D gave up 400 yards and 24 time consuming first downs to the Giants. After a Packer running game only garnard 20 something yards. After McCarthy failed to make halftime adjustments. After the O'line let the Giants dline come through like a sive all game. After the Special Teams failed to fall on a fumble in OT.
Yep, but all the old man's fault they lost. lol, that was not a SB team that year, and if they would have won that game despite getting dominated by the Giants in ALL facets of the game, that overrated D would have given up 5 TDs to Brady and 50 points to the Patriots and be known as the team the Patriots beat to go 19-0.
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 9:46 AM
Emoney
While it's great that you're able to debate jeff's facts with opinion and pure speculation, why don't you try some facts?
Just because Collins is restricted doesn't mean he's a lock to return. The Pack would have to match an offer, which could be pretty big. Colledge may suck, but he's the best you have. And Thompson hasn't proven himself capable of assembling a line, but is quite good at destroying one, so good bye Colledge, Tausch, and Spitz, who is your best center, which is why he is the starter.
And now to my favorite part of your post, "Kampman can go pound sand for all we care." Spoken like a true Packer fan. He gives Green Bay everything he had, and his thanks is some jerk off fan telling him to pound sand. Pretty much the standard for Packer fans.
---------------------------------
Facts? You want facts? Collins is a safety. We can put a tag on him, which only costs about 6 million. Safety tags are one of the cheapest tags in the league. 6 million would be a deal for one year. And if we weren't able to sign him long term, at least we have another year with lots of cap money to do so next year.
Spitz is the best we have? Get your facts right. He had a back injury, and Wells stepped back into the starting spot and has played great. The only reason they gave Spitz the starting spot at the beginning of the year was because they wanted someone bigger at center to control the Williams brothers in MN. When he got hurt, Wells took over the spot he never should have lost. Spitz hasn't earned a $10 million/year contract. He'll come cheap. Colledge hasn't earned a damn thing. As I already said, who in the hell will want this guy? If we lose Colledge for whatever reason, they'll slide Spitz over to left guard. We'll resign at least one of them. Tausher will be gone, but again, we have TJ Lang.
I didn't mean any disrespect to Kampman. I shouldn't have sounded so harsh regarding him, but we seriously do not need him anymore. Losing him will not hurt us. In fact, losing him is actually helping us this year. We should have traded him this past off season, but dumbass TT was so convinced that they could switch him to linebacker.
What else Majik Man? By the way, who do you root for? Are you a Viking fan...I mean, a Favre fan?
Super,
It's great that you are entertained when people speak the truth. At least you'll have some form of entertainment next year while suffering through another 6-10, you can watch the news.
Fan of Mine (Football)! Why aren't you hand washing my jocks? Stop posting and get to it! I'm telling Chilly on you! And Bus! And Deanna! And Scott! And Greta!
". After McCarthy failed to make halftime adjustments"
i always get a chuckle out of people who say the above. What exactly are "halftime adjustments?" Why would you wait until halftime if adjustments need to be made? Do people think they watch film of the first half in the 12 minutes of halftime (which is really 8 because it takes two minutes minimum to get everyone in the lcoker room and two minutes to get everyone out) ? NFL films did a neat piece called "Gameday" and it documented the Ravens and what occurs throughout a typical gameday. Ill just keep it to halftime but essentially what happens in the locker room at half time is first some of the players use the restroom, second the players meet with their position coaches for about 3 minutes...then the head coach speaks for roughly a minute. Then they head back out. There are no "adjustments" Those are made throughout the game. At any point. No waiting till halftime for a "adjustment meeting"
You didn't mean any disrespect when saying Kamp could go pound sand? There is now way to say that and not be disrespectful.
While you may think Wells is better, Spitz is the starter, no matter the reason. By the way, did you and McCarthy hash out the Spitz vs. Williams wall plan together, or are you just making up more trash?
Collins can be tagged, if he is unrestricted. Barring a new CBA, he will be restricted, which would mean matching offers. And 6 mil is not a steal for a safety. I'm sure a lot of teams will want Colledge, Packers included. I know with your vast knowledge you think he sucks, but he's been starting in the NFL, and guards with starting experience don't grow on trees.
And if TJ Lang was the answer, why did they bring in Tausch? Losing Tausch and Colledge would be losing 40% of your line. Not only that, but think of the depth lost.
I think that's enough for now. And yes, I root for Favre and the Vikes. Have fun with Thompson.
Viking and Packer bickering aside, I'm disgusted that PFT can't do any Viking posts that don't involved Favre, Childress and some mythical "rift".
There's plenty of other Vikes news out there right now. Harvin seeing docs at Mayo Clinic. Stadium push news, etc.
Short-sighted, attention-seeking idiots around here.
No cap means TT is going to break the bank, yeah, that's what he always does....lol.
E/ Super, try being realistic for a change, huh?
4 or 5 of these guys to be resigned
Collins 6
Williams 5
Pickett 5
OL 3
19 mil for just those 4......lose 6 other guys...lose depth.
Ah, it's like arguing with 2 year olds. You can't see the forest for the trees.
Supersuckers says: December 23, 2009 10:27 AM
". After McCarthy failed to make halftime adjustments"
i always get a chuckle out of people who say the above. What exactly are "halftime adjustments?" Why would you wait until halftime if adjustments need to be made?
_________________
Are you serious? Obviously, you've never played football or been in a locker room at halftime. But you've seen locker room live on TV, so I guess you're an expert.
Halftime is when good coaches make adjustments, because halftime is the only part of the game when the coaching staff has the entire team together and they're not busy, you know, coaching. Yes, adjustments are made on the fly during the game. But major ones, like readjusting the defense so Burress isn't open every play, are done in the locker room at halftime.
You would know this if you had played football instead of joining the spirit squad.
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 10:20 AM
Super,
It's great that you are entertained when people speak the truth. At least you'll have some form of entertainment next year while suffering through another 6-10, you can watch the news.
----
Thanks again!
A_Rodg12:
I'll say it again, who did Ted Thompson lick and where to get this write up? If the point of PFT was to point out a team on the cusp of the playoffs with rookies playing a huge role then the story should be about the Jags. I really hope you are a Raven or Bronco fan. Because after SUN the Jags will be heading to week 17 just needing to win at CLE to be the 5 seed in the AFC.
@ Fan of Football
Why don't you just end the charade and stop calling yourself "Fan of Football". You're not.
You're a Fan of Favre and Favre only, so delusional from drinking the Favre Kool Aid that you can't see what the hell is going on with 31 other teams.
Out of all of Favre's brainwashed, zombie-like minions I've seen here, nobody's nose is so deeply imbedded in Favre's grundle region as yours.
Someone smater than you
wow the packers beat te cowboys? I didnt know that? cmon! you saw that game the same way i did! Whipped our ass? Please! We beat ourseleves with the turnovers we had at cruical times! That game didnt impress me one bit from the packers! They did play strong defense but what was the final score of the game? thats right 17-7 hmmm sure sounds like an ass beating to me! Get real packer fans the cowboys gave you that win with how unprepared our coaching staff was for that game!
@Majik- Would you like to compare Brett Favre with Michael Jordan today or should we go with Tiger Woods? Since, you know, basketball and football are so similar and football and golf are similar too. And 6 NBA championships in 8 years and 3 playoff wins in 12 years are about the same?
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 10:31 AM
While you may think Wells is better, Spitz is the starter, no matter the reason. By the way, did you and McCarthy hash out the Spitz vs. Williams wall plan together, or are you just making up more trash?
Collins can be tagged, if he is unrestricted. Barring a new CBA, he will be restricted, which would mean matching offers. And 6 mil is not a steal for a safety. I'm sure a lot of teams will want Colledge, Packers included. I know with your vast knowledge you think he sucks, but he's been starting in the NFL, and guards with starting experience don't grow on trees.
And if TJ Lang was the answer, why did they bring in Tausch? Losing Tausch and Colledge would be losing 40% of your line. Not only that, but think of the depth lost.
-------------------------------------------
Where did I get my info regarding Spitz and Wells? I follow every bit of news that has to do with the Packers. They stated this in the off season when discussing why they chose Spitz over Wells. Those words came out of McCarthy's mouth. Wells was upset about it, but didn't request a trade. When Wells held up just fine against the Williams and Rogers(Cleveland), they realized that Wells was still the answer. Spitz, for whatever reason, was put on IR, even though the week prior, they were talking about him playing. I think it was a bunch of b.s., but it was a reason to keep Wells in the starting lineup. So there's the "trash" that you think I'm talking. Trust me, I know a lot more about the Packers than you'll ever know. You follow the Vikings, so I would expect you to know more about them than I would.
6 million is a deal for Collins. He's a pro bowl caliber Safety and deserves everything he gets. Considering we're paying Chillar about the same amount, 6 million is a deal! Compare that to a 16 million dollar tag that Julius Peppers got for his position.
And Colledge does suck. I watch every game, unlike you. The only reason he's in our starting lineup is because TT can't accept that fact that he screwed up with chosing him in the draft. When we don't try to resign him this off season, you'll see how valuable he is to everyone else. I'm sure Buffalo or St Louis or Tampa will try to sign him. You won't see any playoff caliber teams going after him. Thompson will draft a new left guard.
The reason we brought in Tausher was because at the time, Clifton got hurt, so we moved Lang over to left tackle. Allen Barbre absolutely sucked at right tackle, so that's why we brought back Tausher. He is only a one year answer. He's on his last leg.
What else "Majik Man"? You're so knowledgable when you open your mouth. Personally, I think you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
So everyone wants to run TT out of town 5 weeks ago and now he's a god? He's no better or worse than most GMs, well, probably a little worse given his reluctance in free agency. Admittedly, this years's draft will look pretty damn good if Raji comes around.
However, that doesn't change TT's decidedly mixed prior draft history: 2008 was average with Nelson, Finley and Flynn (Brohm, Lee, Thomson and Sitton average or busts); 2007 was a disaster (unless you consider Jackson, Jones, Babre and Crosby stars); 2006 wasn't much better with Hawk (bust), College (avg), Jennings (star), Hodge (bust), Spitz (hurt/avg), Blackmon (avg) and Jolly (druggie); 2005 was great in the first 2 rounds (Rodgers/Collins) but sucky till Popinga (who's still avg); and it looks like Wells was all he got in 2004. That's a lot of misses on high draft picks. Without free agency, you can't build a great team around those drafts alone.
TT's drafts aren't particularly better or worse than the drafts of most other decent teams. That's why this good young team for the future crap everyone continually spouts off always slays me.
Jeff; Green Bay is in no worse shape trying to sign guys than many teams who are much less profitable, like the Vikings, who need a welfare check from the other teams to survive. What a great problem to have, figuring out how many talented players with lot's of tread left can you keep. Yeah, would be much better to have a bunch of aging guys signed to long term deals that you have to figure out "do they have anything left, and if not, where can we find a replacement?" Your argument is really lame. Clearly you're grasping at straws. Homer.
romo9mvp says:
December 23, 2009 10:53 AM
Someone smater than you
wow the packers beat te cowboys? I didnt know that? cmon! you saw that game the same way i did! Whipped our ass? Please! We beat ourseleves with the turnovers we had at cruical times! That game didnt impress me one bit from the packers! They did play strong defense but what was the final score of the game? thats right 17-7 hmmm sure sounds like an ass beating to me! Get real packer fans the cowboys gave you that win with how unprepared our coaching staff was for that game!
------------------------------
That game should have been 17-0. Hell, we beat ourselves with so many drives. That game should have been 40-0. You beat yourselves with crucial turnovers??? It takes an opposing defense to create those turnovers. The Packers defense kicked the shit out of Dallas all game. The Cowboys never led in that game, nor did they ever come close to beating us, even when it was 3-0 the first half. The Cowboys beat the Saints, and all of a sudden, their fans think they're a dominant team again. You guys will be lucky to hold onto that #6 seed.
Ruvell
The MJ Favre comparison was about 2 legends of their respective sports retiring and unretiring while both famously disliking their GM's. I never said the sports were the same or anything else you imagined. Most people got the gist of the comparison and realize it's validity. But then again, most people also know that the '95 Packers didn't win the Super Bowl.
Now before you start crying about being picked on, which we all know you will, just remember you're the one who decided to bring up old posts. Try sticking to the current topics, it may be less embarrassing for you.
# jeff says: December 23, 2009 8:46 AM
Too bad any sustained success will not come.
Tell me, how do you sign 8 starters and 2 high profile rotation guys at 1 time?
It isn't happening, you will lose at least 5 of these guys, TT will not supplement with FA, he will rely on the draft.
He has to hit every year like he did this year.
And since you tools are so fond of past precedents,( favre, vikes choking) his track record is not good.
Enjoy being on the cusp of the playoffs, you aren't in yet.
You could easily slide back to 5-11 next year.
Collins, Bigby, Colledge, Tauscher, Pickett, Spitz,
Kampmann, Kuhn.
Jolly and Williams
Can't pay them all, when you don't you lose depth."
If there is no new CBA and it appears there won't be. The majority of these guys fall back to restricted FA's.
romo9mvp; The Packers totally dominated both sides of the ball in that game. Even Cowboy fans are laughing at you!
Seeryer; Figured you'd get this for yourself but I guess you're knew to the internets (and spellcheck)- this was a story in a WISCONSIN paper Florio was linking (ask a friend) to. If there isn't a story about your team's rookies in the Jacksonville paper Florio can't link (see above) to it.
It is absolutely hilarious how much posters like the Magik Man and Fan of Football run their mouths - when said mouths aren't wrapped around Brett Favre's....nevermind. Anyway, as I was saying it's hilarious how much these two clowns run their mouths and yet by their comments it is obvious that neither knows anything about football.
Aaron Rodgers, if he had a better offensive line and a real threat of a running game, would be an MVP candidate. He already has the stats of an MVP candidate but the offensive pieces just aren't there yet. And yes, Ted Thompson can be blamed for ignoring the offensive line.
But Thompson made a brilliant move by going with Rodgers instead of sticking with the gray-haired Diva.
Emoney says: December 23, 2009 9:45 AM
How do you see it being wrong? Have you watched Matthews play this year?
And in case you haven't been paying attention, Woodson has been playing lights out this year.
----------------------------------------------------
Both have been playing well, but by no means do they have any award locked up.
Brian Orakpo has been a freaking stud this year and I think it will be between him and Matthews for DROY.
If they decide to give the defensive player of the year to a CB it should go to Revis. He is by far the best shutdown CB in the NFL. He has 2 fewer int's but has twice as many passes defended and shuts down every top WR he's up against.
Emoney
Polamalu makes $7 million a year, so 6 mil for Collins is a gross overpayment, considering how much better Troy is than Collins. Chillar just got way overpayed as well, back-up linebackers shouldn't make $5 mil.
And once again, if Lang is the answer, why isn't he starting instead of a washed up guy on his last leg? I know you think Colledge sucks, but TT drafted him, so what makes you think he is capable of drafting a rookie guard that will outperform Colledge?
As for the Spitz Wells thing, I would like to see some proof of it, rather than you saying it's so because you remember MM talking about it in the offseason, and you're a Pack fan so you know everything Packers related.
Keep going though, your arguments are impressive. Everyone of them is based solely on your own opinion, and it's obvious you get frustrated when I throw those pesky facts in there to dispute your claims.
@Majik- I have nothing to be embarassed about other than one mistake, a chronological one at that. I can't remember one negative thing ever said about me other than from you.
And stick to the topic? You followed Brett Favre to New York and followed him to Minnesota and you are a GROWN MAN. I'm pointing and laughing at you as I type this. It's much more fun to read your Favre love posts and then make fun of you.
It just floors me that people would rather have had the Packers let Brett act the way he does and come back whenever he chooses for this year & last while the Packers obviously would have had to trade Aaron Rodgers to another team by now. Meanwhile the Pack would be looking at drafting some kid coming out of college who most likely would have sucked. Rodgers would be tearing it up for some AFC team and everyone would be laughing at Green Bay as Favre tosses a couple more huge picks in a big playoff game at home.
THE "CLAYMAKER" What an awesome player the new best linebacker in the division
RWVF; Good point about Orakpo. But how many sacks does Revis have? How many forced fumbles? Tackles? Revis is the better cover guy, no doubt, but Woodson has more game. A lot more.
Majik,
Typical PFT. I pasted a article from a former player (Matt Bowen) from a competitor site that conveniently didnt get posted. Anyway the jist he says is there are no "adjustments made" in the NFL. He states "In the NFL you make adjustments before the next play or you get beat." He goes on to say "12 minutes is barely enough time to use the restroom, get retaped, and listen to the HC shout a few words of encouragment before someone comes in and yells TWO MINUTES and then everyone grabs their helmets and gets back out on the field." he goes on to say "In the NFL that is really all that occurs at halftime." He also goes on to say "lets be honest...in the NFL there are no halftime adjustments"
bluestree says:
December 23, 2009 11:02 AM
Jeff; Green Bay is in no worse shape trying to sign guys than many teams who are much less profitable, like the Vikings, who need a welfare check from the other teams to survive. What a great problem to have, figuring out how many talented players with lot's of tread left can you keep. Yeah, would be much better to have a bunch of aging guys signed to long term deals that you have to figure out "do they have anything left, and if not, where can we find a replacement?" Your argument is really lame. Clearly you're grasping at straws. Homer.
---------------------------------
The argument is not lame. You cannot sign all 10 guys. When you don't you get younger and lose depth! How can you refute that?
TT draft history as stated by another poster is spotty at best.
To paraphrase Journey--" don't stop believeing"
You Packer fans are Teddy Teabag lemmings, one and all.
Then you have the audacity to call me a homer? Packer fans are the biggest homers on the planet you asshat!
==================================
If there is no new CBA and it appears there won't be. The majority of these guys fall back to restricted FA's.
-------------------------------
Manny:
That might not be beneficial to the Packers, that means if they get offers from other teams, they either have to pay an inflated price or get Picks.
What do you think TT does itn that spot? he takes the picks.
Again, you lose depth and get even younger.
Quite the vicious cycle.
You can see TT's draft history, more misses than hits.
I will leave you Packer fans to your delusions.
There is no excuse for a GM to have this many valuable players come up for contracts at the same time! It's ludicrous! And to pay Chillar 1st is asinine.
Thank God for TT. Thank God he is in charge of the Packers!!
Clay Matthews is a beast - a combo of his dad and his coach (Kevin Greene).
I think Rookie of the Year will be between Orakpo and Matthews. I'm not so sure Woodson is a lock for Defensive Player of the Year after being on the field for Big Ben's 500 yard performance and pikcing up a few pass interference calls. Fo rthe Packers to take the next step next year they have to get at least one OL free agent signing and have to improve the depth of the secondary. The Packers may not be able to sign all of those free agents that were listed above, but they have a ton of cap space and TT has shown a wilingness to spend money on keeping players in Green Bay. And for the record Reggie White didn't come to Green Bay for the money. Ron Wolf sold him with, "You can be a Pro Bowler in San Francisco, but in Green Bay you'll be a god."
for all you koolaid drinkers.
Woodson will not win a D MVP in this or any other year. Simply put there are way too many impact players in the league. He is a good, solid player that is having a fine year. MVP type year.... no. Unless you are drinking the Packer PR koolaid.
And FAN OF FOUR I know you're big fan of Brett's but there is just no way you can say Brett Favre played a good championship game against the Giants. I was there and especially in the 2nd half he was terrible - there were players open but he kept throwing to the wrong read. How many times did he focus on getting the ball to Koren Robinson in that game? Why?? And he threw 2 picks which easily could have been 4 in that game. He played very poorly - even the Driver touchdown in that game was more Donald Driver than Favre.
I laugh how people say Rodgers is only good because his receivers get yards after the catch - then Favre was only good in 2007 because his receivers did the same thing. Like the Vikings receiving corp, offensive line & running backs are so much worse than the Pack's - give me a break.
@Majik- What "facts" have you provided? $6M for Collins is a gross overpayment? Chillar shouldn't make $5M? He plays a significant amount of downs, so to call him a backup isn't exactly fair.
Are those facts or opinions?
The MJ/Favre thing is just...wow. Krause took MJ back and they won 3 straight championships. In basketball, one player makes a HUGE difference. What would make you think, in all of your football "wisdom," that bringing Favre back after '07 would have been better for the Packers?
Show me a fact, not an opinion.
Jeff; when I called your argument lame I ws being kind. You keep bringing up free agents. You said TT can't sign all these guys and he won't sign FA's so the Packers are screwed. Tell me, if you can't afford to sign your own players, where do you get the money to sign players that are up for bidding on the open market? Most of our players are RFA's that we can tender. Who's going to cost you more? Your basic argument is we have too many good young players. That is ridiculous! Come on, let's see who can help Jeff out on this one. Anybody? I'm dying to hear why having too many good players to sign is a bad thing. We have the money in the bank. There will be NO CAP. Hello, anybody home?
Ruvell,
I often have thought of sending Majik a check for the entertainment he provides. A team jumping player lover who, well, we all know by his posts what we have in Majik.
As bad as the Packers team played in the 2007 NFC championship game against the Giants, the ball was STILL in Favre's hands in the end to win the game. And what did he do? He throws it right at Corey Webster!
Favre choked again, just like he did against the Eagles a few years back. We can be upset about the 4th and 26 play, but in the end, the ball was STILL in Favre's hands to win the game. Instead, he just throws it up to Dawkins. Game over.
With the exception of his MVP years, Favre is one of the biggest chokers in playoff history. Let's not forget how great he played against the Rams, Falcons, and Vikings earlier this decade.
If they get him an offensive line I wonder how good Rodgers will be by year 5 as a starter? Look how much better guys like Brees and Rivers have gotten after a few years of starting games. He could be scary good.
Majik,
You can look up the article yourself since PFT wont post it (understandably so as the sites writers are former players and executives and not lawyers) So the site is worlds above this one and has more credibility and better bloggers. That should be enough info without saying it. If I say it PFt wont post it.
Ted Thompson doesn't always make the popular decision but to me that is what makes him a fairly good GM. Not all his moves work out but a lot of them do.
The Packers are young and the future is bright. I don't know what else people want. It looks like the Packers should rule the division for the next 5 or so years.
Brett Favre is a legend and should be respected but he has also turned into a child that only thinks about himself. It was time to move on and the Packer's brass made the correct decision.
Ruvell
Here's a fact. 2007 with Favre, 13-3. 2008, same roster except Rodgers instead of Favre, and no Corey Williams, 6-10. And even if Chillar plays a significant amount, if he isn't a starter, he's a back-up. A $5 million back-up. And are you seriously trying to tell me that in football, one player, the quarterback, doesn't make a huge difference? So you're saying the Colts would be 14-0 with Trent Edwards instead of Manning?
And it wasn't one mistake, it was how you defended it like it was indisputable. And you also said the Thompson GMed Seahawks went to the Super Bowl. There's 2 mistakes, and that was in one post. This is why I, and many others, constantly call you an idiot. I know it's not just me, I've seen many others say it.
bluestree,
That does not account for the sucking up tone in Mr Rosenthalls write up.
"Manny:
That might not be beneficial to the Packers, that means if they get offers from other teams, they either have to pay an inflated price or get Picks.
What do you think TT does itn that spot? he takes the picks.
Again, you lose depth and get even younger.
Quite the vicious cycle.
You can see TT's draft history, more misses than hits.
I will leave you Packer fans to your delusions.
There is no excuse for a GM to have this many valuable players come up for contracts at the same time! It's ludicrous! And to pay Chillar 1st is asinine.
Thank God for TT. Thank God he is in charge of the Packers!!"
Jeff:
How can there be a vicious cycle if none of this has happened yet? You are just speculating. For 1, restricted Free agency isn't overly used and the final 8 rule will take 8 teams out of the mix as major players in FA. They can't sign a player until they lose 1. Also there will be no salary floor so the cheap owners can be as cheap as they want. I think there may be less movement with an uncapped year.
I will admit that if there is an agreement and the rules stay the same, then they will have a hard time keeping all. And that would be TT's fault.
Super,
Who the hell is Matt Bowen? Do you watch games on Sunday? Every broadcaster who is a former coach or player (Aikman, Johnston, Billick, Gruden) talks about making halftime adjustments. My coaches in high school and college both made halftime adjustments. I've seen them, been a part of them, and heard many knowledgeable football guys talk about them, so I'm not going to listen to Matt Bowen's (who?) opinion on them. They're part of the game, good coaches make them, McCarthy doesn't.
NFL defensive player of the year will go to Matthews or Orakpo. My guess is Matthews simply because he's on a better team. (regardless if it's right or wrong...)
Matthews stats:
47 Tackles, 10 sacks, 6 Passes Defended, 1 FF
Orakpo stats:
46 tackles, 11 sacks, 2 Passes Defended, 1 FF
And if Charles Woodson doesn't get Defensive MVP, it will be a crime. If not Charles... then who?
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 12:18 PM
Ruvell
Here's a fact. 2007 with Favre, 13-3. 2008, same roster except Rodgers instead of Favre, and no Corey Williams, 6-10. And even if Chillar plays a significant amount, if he isn't a starter, he's a back-up. A $5 million back-up. And are you seriously trying to tell me that in football, one player, the quarterback, doesn't make a huge difference? So you're saying the Colts would be 14-0 with Trent Edwards instead of Manning?
And it wasn't one mistake, it was how you defended it like it was indisputable. And you also said the Thompson GMed Seahawks went to the Super Bowl. There's 2 mistakes, and that was in one post. This is why I, and many others, constantly call you an idiot. I know it's not just me, I've seen many others say it.
------
You call what you just typed above..... which is 100 percent speculation a fact? None of us knows what would have happened last year with favre as QB. They may have been 6-10 as well. They may have been 16-0 or 0-16. You didnt reply with a fact like he asked. You replied with pure speculation. Ask Florio. Speculation doesnt fly.
Wait a minute...so because I posted a link to another site with my Spitz/Wells proof, they won't post it?
That sucks. I didn't know the two sites hated each other.
"the fact that GB has become one of the least desirable teams to play for since TT arrived according to a recent players poll"
You must consider the ages of the players that were surveyed. I doubt it has anything to do with the Packers as an organization and everything to do with Green Bay as far as night clubs. I would think if they just polled the veterans who have been in the league 5 plus years that survey would be different
Sorry, Majik. I have gotten into it with Cusoman, Jeff and other Vikings fans, and generally it's just good banter. But you are worth your weight in gold as far as entertainment value. Super is right.
That Seahawks roster was largely put together by TT's personnel department. If you say he had nothing to do with that Seahawk team (that went to the SB the year after TT left,) then Sherman is entirely to blame for 4-12 in 05. Well, and Favre's 29 picks.
I want you to tell me you think the Green Bay Packers were an NFC Championship team in '08 if Favre and Corey Williams were there.
Wrong Florio. Why link the Favre benching article in this one? The Packers with Brett Favre in 2007 went 13-3, the vikings will probably do the same. In 2008, The jets improved their record from 2007, while the packers went something like 5-11 minus with virtually the same team (minus the man himself).
Now look at the Vikings from last year to this, granted they got Jared Allen and Percy, we all know why they're really doing better. Do the math, Jr. should be writing for t his site I'm sure he can count.
Majik,
Did you go to Polk High?
"Like the Vikings receiving corp, offensive line & running backs are so much worse than the Pack's - give me a break. "
The Packers WR corps is one of the best in the league, and light-years ahead of Minn. Those WRs were no names before Favre arrived. The RB on Minn is better obviously, but no longer the best. He added 10 lbs to his frame and it obviously cost him a step. The O'lines are about the same, maybe a bit of an advantage going to Minn. Minn O’line has struggled at times this year adjusting to 3 new players and a rookie.
As far as the NFC Champ game, get over it. The Pack WRs rarely got open, and Favre was running for his life all game behind an O’line that couldn’t protect. Throw in the fact that Grant got knocked back two yards every time he was handed the ball, the Giants were able to drop more people back into pass coverage and play the run with just their front four. They did the same thing to Golden boy Brady, and he looked even worse than Favre. Only scoring 14 points in controlled conditions despite having the best offense of all time. Favre didn’t lose the game for the Pack, the WHOLE team did. GET OVER IT
#
A Packers fans agrees? Shocking.
# jeff says: December 23, 2009 8:46 AM
Too bad any sustained success will not come.
Tell me, how do you sign 8 starters and 2 high profile rotation guys at 1 time?
It isn't happening, you will lose at least 5 of these guys, TT will not supplement with FA, he will rely on the draft.
He has to hit every year like he did this year.
And since you tools are so fond of past precedents,( favre, vikes choking) his track record is not good.
Enjoy being on the cusp of the playoffs, you aren't in yet.
You could easily slide back to 5-11 next year.
Collins, Bigby, Colledge, Tauscher, Pickett, Spitz,
Kampmann, Kuhn.
Jolly and Williams
Can't pay them all, when you don't you lose depth.
*********************************************
Glad to see you have it all figured out.....NOT.
I'm sure Ted Thompson has his bases covered.
Unlike you, Mr. Thompson's evaluations have to be on the money because it's his livelihood.
Now do like your mother told you and get those dirty dishes upstairs from the basement and take out the garbage!!!
Super,
How is what I said not fact? They were 13-3 in 07 and 6-10 in 08. I didn't speculate anything or make any predictions. Just stated the records. Facts were asked for, and that's what I provided.
FOF - I knew you'd find a way to protect your guy - you always do. Football is not going to be a lot of fun for you once he hangs up his cleats for good.
Minnesota OLine has Steve Hutchinson at LG - the Packers have Darryn Colledge - enough said.
Ruvell, I was pointing out another error on your part. You said TT was the GM when Seattle went to the Super Bowl, he was not. I never mentioned the team TT put together, or that he used a 1st round pick on Koren Robinson.
Ummm, Jeff and Majikman? You guys should probably shut up. You're getting owned by the Packers fans here.
Hate to break it to you but successful teams aren't built signing high profile FA's or over-paying departing FA's. The point has flown right over your heads......and that point is that the Packers don't have to re-sign every departing FA because they're effectively building depth through the draft. It's no accident that teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, and Giants have been winning championships. They build through the draft and don't break the bank. That's why these teams are successful and competitive most years while teams like the Cowboys and Redskins look great on paper but like dogshit on the field year after year. This is the approach that TT has chosen to take, and it's the right approach. But you guys are Vikes fans and your objectivy has been clouded by jealousy of the Packers' rich history of success while you stare at an empty trophy case and brag about worthless division titles. LOL
TT won an Executive of the Year award for this approach.....but let me guess......it was because of Favre right? LOL. Keep telling yourselves that.
Ruvell, you may think it's good banter, but those guys also think you're an idiot. But they do like that '95 Lombardi you boast of.
Majik,
i was censored again. Boy oh boy is PFT insecure about the "other site" Anyway, Matt Bowen was a former NFL player that writes for "the other site" he has been in 4 different teams halftime locker rooms for 6 seasons. Including a halftime locker room with your beloved Brett Favre in 2001 and 2002. Surprised you didnt know that. Anyway, thats 96 NFL halftimes he has witnessed first hand. If says not much goes on during halftime due to time restraints Im gonna take his word for it.
CaptainFantastik says: December 23, 2009 12:59 PM
Ummm, Jeff and Majikman? You guys should probably shut up. You're getting owned by the Packers fans here.
_______________
How are we "getting owned"? I've asked countless times how any team can afford to resign all those key guys, and how they will replace them, and the only response is name calling. That's not getting owned, that's Packer fans realizing the inevitable downfall and coping with it like children.
jamesz23,
I'm sorry if FACTS and well thought out and statistically backed opinions are "protecting my guy." You remember history in your own tunnel vision way, I saw how the WHOLE team played and how other teams played that off season against that Giants team.
I will take your weak response as capitulation on your part. Good day to you sir.
Cat. Nodick:
Owned? Hardly.
Obviously another idiot who thinks youth = better.
You don't understand depth, because you have none.
Look what happened to the your Steelers when injuries came calling.
What an unmitigated Asshat you are.
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 12:53 PM
Super,
How is what I said not fact? They were 13-3 in 07 and 6-10 in 08. I didn't speculate anything or make any predictions. Just stated the records. Facts were asked for, and that's what I provided
----
He asked for a fact for this question alone: "What would make you think, in all of your football "wisdom," that bringing Favre back after '07 would have been better for the Packers?"
He asked you to provide a fact for that. A fact. A fact that states they would have been better then 6-10 factually with Brett Favre. Thats what he is looking for. Not that they went 6-10. We all know that. But a fact that proves they would have been better then 6-10 with Favre. A FACT.
Who knows..they may have been worse then 6-10 with favre. We will never know!
Supersuckers says:
December 23, 2009 12:46 PM
Majik,
Did you go to Polk High?
=========================
Super! Awesome reference to a great TV show.
Went over a lot of heads on here.......not suprising in the least!
I believe this whole thread deserves ASSHAT of the Day Award. Packer homers spewing ignorance in all their glory.CaptainFukstick,isn't there any Steeler news? You are a moron,fit right in with the dairyland douches of Pack nation!
Super,
I didn't go to Polk High, but I did score 4 TD's in one game.
And how could I provide fact that Favre would have improved them? Can't be done, just like no one can prove the Packers are better off without Favre. But that doesn't stop the Ted homers from chanting how great of a decision it was. All I can do is provide statistical information that supports my opinion, such as the 07 to 08 records, or that Favre led a 4-12 team to 9-7, Rodgers led a 13-3 team to 6-10. Favre is 20-10 since being traded, Packers are 15-15.
Like I said, no iron clad evidence, but pretty strong stats to support it.
jeff says:
December 23, 2009 1:26 PM
Supersuckers says:
December 23, 2009 12:46 PM
Majik,
Did you go to Polk High?
=========================
Super! Awesome reference to a great TV show.
Went over a lot of heads on here.......not suprising in the least!
----
There is time yet.
Majik says"
And how could I provide fact that Favre would have improved them? Can't be done, just like no one can prove the Packers are better off without Favre.
---
exactly.
Super; How are you getting censored? Florio has quoted The National Football Post on PFT. It is another great site. Andrew Brandt, having many years in Green Bay working with Farve, put out very valuble background on what went down with him and Ted and Mike. Matt Bowen is terrific as well. Speaking of watching the games, I heard your point about half time adjusments being greatly overstated during one of the telecasts this week. It's no longer a big deal, as things are analyzed much more rapidly with todays technology and plans are adjusted throughout the game. That's common knowledge.
Majik says,
"or that Favre led a 4-12 team to 9-7"
And thats right around where the Jets will finish this year......with a new coach and a rook at the helm.
bluestree,
I dont know. But they are censoring me any time I bring up that one. Yes very much indeed the term "halftime adjustments" is laughable. Given 12 minutes its bathroom retaping and thats it. Bowen said it. It was common knowledge and common sense to me before i read the article. to Majik and the other guy its a intricle part of a NFL game. Like they have a meeting room and then....anyway...lol. You are correct it is GREATLY overstated. More then greatly because "adjusting" isnt what they are doing during those twelve minutes. they adjust real time. LOL....I still laugh. Why in the world would you wait until halftime to make adjustments that need to be made? That would be implying that they are watching film during halftime...in twelve minutes....never understood it.
I can just see Majik on the sideline after his opponent just unexpectadly blitzed the hell out of his offense and caused two first quarter turnovers yelling words of encouragement to his offense. "HANG IN THERE GUYS! IN A QUARTER AND A HALF WE WILL DO OUR HALFTIME ADJUSTING!!!""
FOF I was just like you and loved every minute of Favre's time in GB. I was with my brother in the crowd and when the Packers got the ball late in that game with a chance to drive for the winning score we said this could catapult Brett to an even higher level than he already is - nothing happens on the drive, OT - another chance given to him by the Giants and he throws to the only covered receiver on the field - Donald Driver.
There is a snapshot of that final play on the internet - the other 3 receivers all appear to be open BF throws to the 1 covered guy. I think he's a great QB and still have a signed ball and helmet by him but his behavior the past 2 years has changed my view of him -(even though you think he did nothing wrong at all) and his inability to come through in big playoff games the last decade can't be ignored. Good day & happy holidays to you.
I think the point is:
Mccarthy isn't adjusting at all, be it halftime or in game.
Good ol' Mumbles!
Super
Good job of twisting my words and ignoring a good part of what I said. I did say that many adjustments are made in game, on the fly. But major scheme adjustments, such as fixing the Burress torching Harris problem, are made at halftime. This is fact. You read an article written by a career 3rd stringer, and now you know everything?
Like I said, it's obvious you've never been in a locker room other than to change into your cheer squad outfit, so you have no clue what goes on in there. I have, I've seen it done, and every broadcaster and talking head who has been in and around the game talks about halftime adjustments, but since you, bluestree, and Matt Bowen say they don't happen, it must be gospel.
I can just see Super on the sideline after his opponent just unexpectedly blitzed the hell out of his offense and caused two first quarter turnovers yelling words of encouragement to his offense.
"We've got spirit, yes we do..."
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 2:36 PM
I can just see Super on the sideline after his opponent just unexpectedly blitzed the hell out of his offense and caused two first quarter turnovers yelling words of encouragement to his offense.
"We've got spirit, yes we do..."
----
touche' lol
Majik says,
"but since you, bluestree, and Matt Bowen say they don't happen, it must be gospel."
----
Well Matt Bowen was in 96 NFl locker rooms at the half. How many were you in? It doesn't make sense majik if you actually think about how much time twelve minutes is. They piss, they shit (if necessary), they get retaped, and they get yelled at. Thats all. I have never heard a NFL announcer that is a former player or coach say "halftime adjustments" I have heard play by play guys say it. But they never played the game at the NFL level.
Emoney says:
How do you see it being wrong? Have you watched Matthews play this year?
And in case you haven't been paying attention, Woodson has been playing lights out this year.
____________________________________
Matthews is a stud, and we're lucky to have him, but his former teammate Cushing has been better since day 1.
Woodson was a DPOY contender, but probably ruined his chances on Sunday. You don't give up 500 passing yards and win ANYTHING.
An occasional dose of reality helps, even if you have to get it from Viking fans.
Throughout the 2009 NFL season, Coach Mike Tomlin will provide his insight and observations to Steelers.com on a variety of topics pertaining to the team and the National Football League.
Q. There is a lot of romance associated with it, and maybe it all started with the portrayal of it in the movie “Knute Rockne: All-American.” What really goes on at halftime?
A. It’s really kind of mundane. You have roughly 12 minutes or so. Coaches come together, compare notes, look at some issues and areas where you’re deficient, some areas where you could potentially make some splash plays in the second half. And that discussion is usually pretty quick – three-to-four minutes. During that same time, players are cooling down, getting attention from the trainers if they need it, going to the bathroom, if you will. Then after that, they come together as an offense and as a defense, and then they address the adjustments or the potential adjustments they need to make in the second half. That goes on for roughly five minutes. I call them all up, and give them one final thought that captures everything we need to do as a collective group. Usually that’s about 30-to-45 seconds, and then we’re out of there.
Rodgers could throw for 7000 yds and 60 tds with only 5 int's and go 19-0 and still the Favre homers would bring up the 13-3 to 6-10 argument.
Packer fans like Rodgers because they can see his potential to be a great player with the way he has played and handled himself the last two years. Just like we saw the potential of Brett Favre back in '92 and '93 despite the bumps in the road that occurred.
Favre homers will never admit that Rodgers has that potential because doing so would be actually commending Thompson for something, and there is no way in hell that is going to happen.
Super and bluestree= Owned by Majik
Bluestree on 2 different topics!
Majik Man says:
December 23, 2009 3:21 PM
Throughout the 2009 NFL season, Coach Mike Tomlin will provide his insight and observations to Steelers.com on a variety of topics pertaining to the team and the National Football League.
Q. There is a lot of romance associated with it, and maybe it all started with the portrayal of it in the movie “Knute Rockne: All-American.” What really goes on at halftime?
A. It’s really kind of mundane. You have roughly 12 minutes or so. Coaches come together, compare notes, look at some issues and areas where you’re deficient, some areas where you could potentially make some splash plays in the second half. And that discussion is usually pretty quick – three-to-four minutes. During that same time, players are cooling down, getting attention from the trainers if they need it, going to the bathroom, if you will. Then after that, they come together as an offense and as a defense, and then they address the adjustments or the potential adjustments they need to make in the second half. That goes on for roughly five minutes. I call them all up, and give them one final thought that captures everything we need to do as a collective group. Usually that’s about 30-to-45 seconds, and then we’re out of there.
-----
another coaches perspective. swapping notes and discussing "splash" plays goes on during the entire game. They don't do anything differently then what they do after a series. Tomlin even said "Its pretty mundane"
I actually think Majik would go down on favre for free.
"Woodson was a DPOY contender, but probably ruined his chances on Sunday. You don't give up 500 passing yards and win ANYTHING."
I agree that giving up 500 yards passing is something that we shouldn't of done but don't put the blame on Woodson now. I don't think the Steelers were even trying to throw his way. Most of the blame goes to Jarrett Bush, who gave up most of the big plays.
and to all the Viking 'fans', there is a reason why you are one of the most hated fans in the league. You are nothing but ignorant, delusional morons.
Ruvell, you may think it's good banter, but those guys also think you're an idiot.
--------------------------------------------------
More speculation on the part of Majik. Seems to be you and Sensitive Chicken against everyone else. I'm sure Jeff is proud to have a man with such loyalty and spine on his side.
Super
I tried to post this before the Tomlin bit, but it had a link in it they didn't like. I removed the link, and took a quote out of it...
I was never in an NFL locker room, but like I said, my high school and college halftimes always consisted of scheme adjustments.
Think about it. How many times have you seen a team come out and stink up the joint the first half, come out 12 minutes later, and look like a new team. This isn't because their punter dropped a deuce and taped his ankle, it's because they adjusted their scheme. But since you won't believe me, here's a quote from Jim Caldwell...
Caldwell said the second-half turnaround wasn't as much about halftime speeches as halftime adjustments and improved second-half play.
“Really, to be honest with you, it wasn't any different than any other halftime,” Caldwell, now 11-0 as an NFL head coach, told Colts Radio. “We make adjustments the exact same way. We point out the issues and what we'd like to do in the second half.
You can listen to Matt Bowen, I'll listen to Jim Caldwell.
Ruvell
It's not speculation to say that other people think you're an idiot when people actually do call you an idiot. It's telling it how it is.
Super,
A "going down on Favre" gay joke? Is that what its come down to? Nothing intelligent to say, so you're going 4th grade on my ass? I've come to expect such childish things from Ruvell and packers4life. But come on man, you're better than that. Don't be those guys.
Just think what TT would have done if he had enough courage to trade BF to the Vikings last year for at least a 1st and 2nd round draft instead accepting a 4th from the Jets so he wouldn't have to see BF ever again in lambeau. Maybe TT could have gotten some depth at the corner.
By the way is there any truth that CB Jarrett Bush has a picture of TT, with a shaved German Shepherd and a midget?
I actually had a retort with good info but PFt once again censored it because it came from a competitor. Lets just agree to disagree on this one. Im a guy that played on a combined 6-21 football team in high school the three years I was on varsity. All our halftimes consisted of was rants and violent destruction of property from our "coaching staff". Our Offensive coordinators language was so bad the title was fitting. Our oline coach tried to bring down one of our opponents visiting locker room by its support beam (yeah that old of a locker room) one half time (think Cameron and the ferrari in ferris Buellers' day off) My best friend to this day still talk about those rants and actually how difficult it was to not laugh. I hear a Minnesota player call Childress' tirade Sunday night "entertaining" . I get it!! It was so hard not to laugh at these grown men losing their minds. But anyway...
I'll tell you what's childish, Majik. Being a Packer fan, then a Jets fan, then a die-hard Vikings fan in order to follow around a quarterback that has won 3 playoff games in 12 years. Does that sound like a man or a child?
packers4life says:
I agree that giving up 500 yards passing is something that we shouldn't of done but don't put the blame on Woodson now. I don't think the Steelers were even trying to throw his way. Most of the blame goes to Jarrett Bush, who gave up most of the big plays.
____________________________________
Of course we all know Jarrett Bush is the worst player in professional sports. In fact, he's worse than most NON-professional football players. If you played football in high school, are under 65, and have never had a limb amputated, odds are you're still better than Jarrett Bush.
Signing him to the active roster to begin with was bad enough. The minute Thompson matched an offer to keep the loser, he should have been given his walking papers. Thompson has had a lot of failures, but that one takes the cake. Capers has also worked wonders with this defense, but for him to let Bush out on the field, especially after the first play, raises a lot of questions about his abilities too.
It goes to follow that if we know this, so does every opposing quarterback we face. No doubt many of them dream of having Bush "cover" one of their receivers, because they know all they have to do is throw that direction, and instant big play. Or, in this case, 500 yards.
In summary, OF COURSE this disgrace wasn't Woodson's fault. All I was saying is that he will likely still lose some potential votes for being on the field when it happened. Right or wrong, there it is.
Super,
We found something we agree on, the censorship on here is starting to become ridiculous.
I'm sorry your football experience sucked, our team went to the title game junior year, lost in the semifinals senior year. We won a lot, our head coach is being HOF. And he made a lot of adjustments, as did my college coach. Winning coaches make halftime adjustments.
Ruvell
You're just a sad individual. Seek help, preferably from a guy who knows who won the 95 Super Bowl.
And how could I provide fact that Favre would have improved them? Can't be done, just like no one can prove the Packers are better off without Favre. But that doesn't stop the Ted homers from chanting how great of a decision it was. All I can do is provide statistical information that supports my opinion, such as the 07 to 08 records, or that Favre led a 4-12 team to 9-7, Rodgers led a 13-3 team to 6-10. Favre is 20-10 since being traded, Packers are 15-15
Like I said, no iron clad evidence, but pretty strong stats to support it.
--------
Really?
So if AR took a 13 - 3 team to 6 - 10 and thats your major complaint. Then shouldnt it be equally bad, that Brent took a 10 - 6 playoff team in 2005 to 4 - 12 in 2006? Its just a stupid case your putting up.
here are some more "stats"...
Career playoff interceptions thrown: 28 (tied with Jim Kelly)[103]
Career playoff losses as starting QB: 10 (tied with Dan Marino)
see.. you pretty much can find any stat to fit the bill
All i know for sure is that GB has an awesome "young"QB, and the queens have maybe another year with our old one. Then whatcha got?
Stats... i love em.
Rudedog,
Actually, the Pack was 10-6 in 2004, 4-12 in 2005. You're supposed to be a Packer fan, yet you don't know any history. Go away child.
And 2005, the year of 4-12, happened to be TT's first year in command. And his first order of business was to implode the team. There were a total of 10 out of 22 new starters between 04 and 05. between 07 and 08, there were 2. Corey Williams, and Rodgers, who was better than Favre according to Ted. So why were there 7 more losses with the same exact team? Must have been Corey Williams. You, rudedog, are just proof that common sense isn't all that common.
Majik says,
" Winning coaches make halftime adjustments."
No they don't. they are made real time. My football experience didnt suck. Like I said the tirades were so fun and it was still football under the lights on Friday night. Let me guess cause every team has one or two of these. you were the guy "pumping yourself up" before games by screaming "grrrrr" and actually listened to your coaches rants and offered the proverbial "COME ON D!!!" not really knowing whats going on on the field??? Because your posts on here reak of football ignorance.
Majik,
Get over it. Get over it. get over favre. If you want to jump ship wherever that clown migrates to thats your choice. If thats the case you should not have any concern about the packers any longer as you are now a favre/viking fan. Why are you so concerned about the packers? I think I know the reason. But if you are not a fan of the team why are you commenting on events of years ago?
Supersuckers says:
December 24, 2009 11:01 AM
Majik,
Get over it. Get over it. get over favre. If you want to jump ship wherever that clown migrates to thats your choice. If thats the case you should not have any concern about the packers any longer as you are now a favre/viking fan. Why are you so concerned about the packers? I think I know the reason. But if you are not a fan of the team why are you commenting on events of years ago?
==================================
Are you insinuating again that the Vikes and their fans are afraid of the Packers?
I, as a fan am not. The Vikes match up favorably against the Packers.
We are comparing apples and oranges though.
Vikes are a playoff team. The Packers are not in yet.
jeff
The conversation didnt involve you. Why are you engaging me? To answer your question no that was not what i was insinuating. Interesting.
"In sumary, OF COURSE this disgrace wasn't Woodson's fault. All I was saying is that he will likely still lose some potential votes for being on the field when it happened. Right or wrong, there it is."
True but either way though, he still has a high chance of winning the award. He is having the best year of any defensive player this season with the exception of a few players like Jairus Byrd or Elvis Dumervil.
Super,
Apparently, Florio banished me for talking too much trash about him selling out, but I'm back. Anyway.
No, I wasn't that guy. Like I said, we were a good team, with a good coach, who yes, we did listen to. Maybe if you had done the same, you would have won some games. We didn't have motivation problems. We all took it seriously, and weren't content to be losers like you and your band of misfits apparently were. We were winners.
I don't know how many time I have to say I agree that adjustments are made on the fly. I get it. But you don't seem to understand that there are scheme adjustments at halftime, because you read an article written by a career 3rd stringer who probably wasn't included in the plans. I provided proof from 2 different NFL coaches from 2 successful teams that they do use halftime adjustments, yet you still refuse to acknowledge their existence. This tells me you're either the most stubborn human being ever, or just the most ignorant. I'm guessing both, leaning more towards the latter.
You speak of me being ignorant about football, yet you have no clue what's going on. Your playing career consists of 6 wins over 3 years. I played on a perennial winner, then went to a winning college program for 4 years. Who do you think got the better football education?
At least I see you are starting to realize I'm right on this, as you're changing the subject. Pretty good sign of a guy who knows he's wrong but refuses to admit it. Why do you care if I still follow the Packers? There in the division of the team I root for. Same reason you troll the Vikings threads. I comment on things Packers from years ago because Favre was on that team, and I watched him and I tire of fools bashing him for supposedly losing all those games single-handedly, when Ron Wolf openly admits he never put enough talent around Favre. And we all know Thompson refused to put talent around him.
And this discussion isn't really about Packers/ Vikings/ Favre anymore, it's about the existence of halftime adjustments, which you know you're wrong about.
So get over it, get over it, get over yourself, and admit you're wrong.
Majik says,
"So get over it, get over it, get over yourself, and admit you're wrong"
---
You listed froma coaching perspective. I listed from a player perspective. Nothing is done at halftime that doesnt occur during the game. Living in your past football glory? We all know what that means. High school football and some division 3 non scholorship football program is not the NFL. Not even close. You cannot get a education on the NFL playing at those low levels. Night and day. My source was not a opinion. he was there. Its a factual account of what occurs in the 8 minutes NFl teams are in the locker room from a player perspective. I do not see how I could be wrong without you flat out calling Matt (96 NFL halftime locker rooms) Bollen a liar. Are you calling him a liar?
So Majik,
It doesnt matter if Bollen was a third stringer he was there! He was a starter at times but that is besides the point. If you are going to come out and call him a liar then I will admit that I am wrong. I suspected (common sense) that "halftime adjustments" was a overplayed term in the NFL due to time but his article confirmed it. Now if you are going to call him a liar and prove he is lying about his account of what really occurs during a NFL halftime I will admit I am wrong. I certainly am not taking your word for it with no NFl locker room experience. As far as my high school football....we were in it to get laid and party. and that we did. Like champions. We knew we were overmatched talent wise. We were in a new conference with schools twice sometimes three times bigger then us and also a private school that could recruit. We were the first three years of existence in that conference and now the school is one of the better schools in football in the conferece. But yes we sucked. but it was all about what occured after the game! That was the fun part.
Super,
I thought his name was Matt Bowen, not Bollen. What a great, credible source, you can't even remember the guy's name. And like I said, you have Bowen/ Bollen, I have Jim Caldwell and Mike Tomlin. I'm guessing the 2 of them have been in more than 96 NFL halftime locker rooms, what would you say? You're talking about a player perspective, I'm talking about two head coaches perspective, who say they make halftime, coaching adjustments, and that's what the debate is, whether there are halftime adjustments. These adjustments would be created by the COACH, not the player. And the coaches say they exist.
You don't have to keep pointing out the on the fly adjustments, I know they exist. And I know that the majority are done in game. But the major ones are done at halftime, this is common sense.
But anyways, you won't admit you're wrong, even though I'm guessing you know you are (seriously, Bowen's word versus Caldwell and Tomlin, come on). Whatever. Merry Christmas man, hope you and your family had a great day and holiday season. Won't be on for a couple days, so have a great weekend, and enjoy the holidays with the new little one, if I recall correctly. All the BS aside, take care. I'll be back Monday to talk some more jive.
Love how everyone is bashing Florio for writing this article and it was written by Rosenthal.
Blinded by hate gentlemen?
Why in the hell did someone come on a Packers post talking about the Jacksonville Jags? Do they even have a fan base? Name 1 player on that team besides MJD.