During Monday’s 17-hour journey from Milan to Minsk, I spent plenty of time listening to the ’81 Vanagon’s factory-installed Sirius radio. (It’s amazing that the folks at Volkswagen anticipated the popularity of satellite radio, more than two decades before it was invented.)
Though I was partial to the products of my colleagues at Sporting News Radio (I listened to long stretches of Tim Brando, The Two Live Stews, The Monty Show, and Todd Wright Tonight), I sampled many other national shows — Mike & Mike In The Morning, The Herd with Colin Cowherd, and The Scott Van Pelt Show on ESPN Radio, the various offerings of Sirius NFL Radio, and even a little Mad Dog Radio.
I also did a few radio spots while captaining the Vanagon, including segments with Timmy B., the Fan 590 in Toronto, 105.7 the Fan in Baltimore, and 680 The Fan in Atlanta. (I guess “the Fan” is a little bit punchier than “the Bandwagon Jumper.”)
As you might imagine, some of the radio discussion was devoted to the Super Bowl. And part of the talk focused on the impact of that 31-17 loss on the legacy of Colts quarterback Peyton Manning.
While we generally agree with the notion that Manning’s legacy won’t be known until his career ends, the loss in the Super Bowl prevents him from becoming the consensus best-ever quarterback.
And there’s a simple reason for it — unlike Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw, Manning now has a black mark on his permanent Super Bowl record.
So even if Manning’s Colts win four more Super Bowls, nothing will erase the thing that neither Montana nor Bradshaw have on the other side of their quartet of Super Bowl wins: a loss.
Thus, the debate as to the best quarterback of all time will continue indefinitely into the future, unless and until a man emerges who not only breaks the various all-time records that Manning likely will take from Favre (with the exception of interceptions) but also wins at least four Super Bowls and loses none of them.
Meanwhile, there was plenty of talk on talk radio regarding the possibility/likelihood that Manning will win two or three more Super Bowls.
Um, folks? In 12 NFL seasons, he has won only one. Even if Manning has eight seasons left, it’s unrealistic to expect a guy with a career postseason record of 9-9 to go 3-0 or better two or three more times over the balance of his time in pro football.
Bottom line? There likely will never be a clear-cut best-ever Michael Jordan-style quarterback in our lifetimes. And that might not be a bad thing.
dude whats up with all the name dropping in the beginning of the article…the first 3 paragraphs have nothing to do with the title
btw i hope u run out of hair gel
first they said he wasnt the best because he still had ZERO Super Bowls, then when he finally wins one, they bash him for not winning another one
WTF is up with that
very true. Manning is a class act. would hate to see him categorized in the same “fart in the wind” category as Brett Favre.
Brett Favre.
Michael Jordan-style quarterback in our lifetimes.
uuuuhhh Joe Montana?
I would say that’s a safe bet.
If Manning wants to help his legacy then he should dispel this talk of him being the highest paid player ever.
Look, the Colts aren’t that talented in my opinion. If they lost Peyton, well you saw the Buffalo game. If he’s going to hog up that much salary, cap or no cap, it’s not going to help the talent around him improve.
He should take 65% of what the highest paid will be. He has enough endorsements. If cementing his legacy is what he’s interested in, they should add more talent around him, and especially on defense.
I think Reggie Wayne proved he’s not an “elite” talent at WR. He may put up elite numbers, but it’s off of what Peyton does. Imagine if they added Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin to add a physicality to that offense?
Sean Salisbury is the clear-cut best-ever quarterback of our lifetime. He’s got picture proof and he is willing to show you.
“So even if Manning’s Colts win four more Super Bowls, nothing will erase the thing that neither Manning nor Montana have on the other side of their quartet of Super Bowl wins: a loss.”
You mean Bradshaw.
Manning will still go down as the most dominant quarterback to play the game.
So the media can fawn over Favre like he is the greatest to ever play the game, yet he leads the league in all time INTs and is 1-1 in superbowls and has choked away to superbowl caliber teams with INTs in the final minutes. Oh and don’t forget he threw 3 straight incomplete passes from the Broncos 35 with 1 minute remaining in his superbowl loss. Please Manning will hold every statistical record before he leaves the game and will have at least one SB on his resume.
I don’t buy it. If Manning was on those Steeler teams, they would have won 7 super bowls rather than 4. The 49ers would have done the same. Manning is the best QB in the game and possibly ever. The fact that they have a coach who’s basically there just because a team has to have a head coach…and the rest of the team is good only because of him. Rice and Montana made each other, along with Roger Craig. The steel curtain and Franco Harris made Brandshaw…Manning made Manning and Manning made Reggie Wayne and Marvin the Kid.
It’s a bit early to start thinking legacy, dontcha think? He’s still got a few years left. Also, Manning doesn’t have the supporting cast that Montana and Bradshaw had. They were great quarterbacks, but neither one had to do as much of the heavy lifting as Peyton does. This is from a Colts fan since they moved to Indy in 1984…
How did the media forget about Super Joe’s Super Bowl resume all last week? 4-0; 11 TD’s & 0 INT’s. Greatest of all time. Period.
I get so sick of the media trying to annoint Manning as the best ever. He’s not even the best of his era IMO. That belongs to Brady. Last I looked, Brady’s SB loss wasn’t due to an INT (he drove NE downfield for the go-ahead TD), but a Tyree’s fluke catch.
Why don’t they just get it over with and rename the Indianapolis Colts the Peyton Mannings? That way everyone can bask in his name sake every day. Especially all those other people that fill out the Colts er um I mean Mannings team’s roster.
Posted by Mike Florio on February 9, 2010 11:19 AM ET
“…nothing will erase the thing that neither Manning nor Montana have on the other side of their quartet of Super Bowl wins: a loss…”
Where did Eli get the other 3?
larry bird was better than jordan.
What the heck do you mean “never be a clear cut best ever”??? His name is Joe Montana
ok this is total bs….first off how can u even compare bradshaw or montana to peyton manning, bradshaw has a career qb rating of 70.9 and a 212 td to 210 int total, yes he won four superbowls but come on it wasnt just cuz he was good. Montana on the other hand i would say is comparable, he was very good, but also had a very good defense to go with his offense. Its not peytons fault the colts d gave up 24 points, the int was costly but othewise i dont think any other qb has taken a team to the playoffs so many years in a row…sorry i just dont agree
Don’t forget being a sore loser hurts your legacy too!
“Bottom line? There likely will never be a clear-cut best-ever Michael Jordan-style quarterback in our lifetimes. And that might not be a bad thing.”
Bulls**t — Joe Montana is the man!
What are you talking about? Since when does losing a Super Bowl count against a player? No one ever knocked Marino becasue he lost that Super Bowl in his second season – they knocked him because he never won any. If Manning wins 3 more and thus equals in SB wins tha oft Montana, there is no way that having made a FIFTH super bowl and lost it would count against him. He isn’t the undisputed best of all time right now, but by the end of his career, I think he will be. Regardless, this post is probably the stupidest thing I have ever seen Mike Florio write. (Generally I’m a fan, good sir.)
Discussing “Best evar (sic)” is a topic for ninnies anyway.
Phooey and hogwash….any idiot starting a franchise would kill for Peyton Manning as it’s cornerstone QB. The same goes for guys like Elway, Unitas, Marino, Staubach, Fouts, etc in their primes. He’ll leave the game with all the QB records, and even if he only has the one SB win, it’ll certainly be enough. Favre has only one championship ?? Does that tarnish the other 18 yrs in his career ?? Major impact, my eye…If the Colts want to dump him because he couldn’t play defense and win this years’game, my Fins will take him in an instant. What you and whoever thinks this way keep forgetting is that it takes the entire team to win a championship, not just a QB…
“There likely will never be a clear-cut best-ever Michael Jordan-style quarterback in our lifetimes. And that might not be a bad thing.”
Then quit talking about him all the time like he is and move on to some real news!!
E L W A Y
One person can’t take a team to, and win the Superbowl. Dan Marino would have a few rings if that was possible.
If a Super Bowl loss is all it takes to separate the Best Ever than why does Troy Aikman’s name not come up in the coversation? 3 in 4 years with no losses yet I don’t hear anyone saying Aikman is better than Manning.
so let me get this straight Florio….. according to your logic, 4-0 is better than 8-1 in superbowls….. oooooook buddy
There is something wrong with anyone that keeps Manning or Elway out of the discussion for best ever quarterback due to Super Bowl losses. Especially for Elway.
Tom Brady is the best Qb of this era. He may even finish as the best of all time. Manning is one of the greats, very much like Farve, but not the best. It’s easy to beat down on Brady having come off his knee injury. You’ll remeber how great his is now that he will be healthy this season. Say what you want now, you’ll eat those words in a few months.
This is an “apples to oranges” kind of comparison. Montana and Bradshaw played in a much different era. It was much easier to keep championship caliber teams together back then. All that talk about who is better is just nonsense.
Sooooooo many are ready to annoint Peyton as the best ever. He beats up on the sad sacks in the NFL, finally gets a leg up on the Patriots when they are obviously on their downside and Brady was injured. Beat the Bears in the Super Bowl, one of THE WORST teams ever to make it to the bit game, they only beat two teams with winning records during the regular season that year and two other turds in the playoffs. Peyton is the king of the two minute drill and beating the little sisters of the poor.
I don’t think the loss will hurt his legacy as much as the fact that he threw the interception which lost them the game. Favre is 1-1, Brady is 3-1, and Elway is 2-3. I don’t think they’ll have trouble with their legacy.
I hate ranking QBs in the NFL. I think there are pantheon QBs and there are all the rest. There are all time greats, and there are all the rest. And it isn’t based on one stat or achievement. Marino never won the big one and Trent Dilfer did, but Marino is in and Dilfer is out.
No matter what happens the rest of his career, Manning is already a pantheon QB. One of the best ever. We can all debate who would you rather have with the game on the line/ in a snow storm/ in the playoffs etc. until the cows come home, but you simply can’t rank one above the other across the board.
“the consensus best-ever quarterback.”
?????……………in what?…………..fantasy football?
Hard to believe the talking heads are trying to hang the ‘Best Ever’banner on this guy. Yeah – he does win a lot of games, but when the noose tightens……….this guy chokes.
Stats do not make a player the ‘Best Ever’in any sport.
Here are some stats for the ballwashers:
Manning lost only five games at Isidore High in New Orleans. Three, though, were in the state playoffs; his high school team never won a state championship.
He was a walking legend at the University of Tennessee — and still is one. He lost only five
games there too. But three were to Florida, and the Volunteers won their national championship only after he left.
’99-Lost at home to underdog wild-card Titans
’00-Lose at Miami in WC round
’02-Lose 41-0 to NYJ in Meadowlands
’03-Throws four interceptions in ‘AFCCG
’04-Leads his team to 3 points in 24-3
Divisional Playoff loss in Foxboro
’05-First five are incomplete; two-digit underdog Steelers kick his ass all day long…Peyton cites “protection problems” after being sacked five times (Throws his OL under the bus…it is always someone else’s fault with this guy.)
’06-Manning finally wins it all
’07-Loses at home to SD in Div. Playoffs
’08-Loses at 8-8 SD in Wild Card round. Faces 3rd & 2 late 4Q that would ice the game for his team…can’t pick it up
’09-Needing a late TD to tie the game, Peyton throws a pick-six
Absurd argument no matter how you look at it. There are FAR too many variables on any football team to harp on one player, even if it is a QB.
As to Montana, I’d argue Bradshaw as being better. Montana was the king of the 5 yard slant that Rice/Taylor would rip for 85 YAC. Then everyone would state how great Montana was.
He was a great QB, no doubt, (in a system perfectly suited to him), but best ever?
There is no comparison. When you combine stats, athletic ability, clutch under pressure, etc., the clear cut best ever is Joe Montana. He won his first two Super Bowls without Rice or a dominant supporting cast. He played his whole career making everyone around him look better (do you think we would remember Dwight Clark, John Taylor, Roger Craig otherwise?). He did the same thing in KC.
When he retires, Peyton will be in the Elway/Marino group of quarterbacks. Great quarterbacks, but not the best.
As a Raider fan all I say is that it takes more than individual records OR Super Bowl records to be remembered as “GREAT” with tremendous “LEGACY”.
If SB wins and losses were the measuring stick ONLY then Tom Flores (2-0 in Super Bowls), Jim Plunkett (also 2-0 in Super Bowls), Cliff Branch (again 2-o in Super Bowls) and even Ray Guy (3-0 in Super Bowls) would be considered to have great LEGACIES (and prehaps even be in the Hall of Fame by now…Mr. Florio I hope you see my point when I see Ricky Jackson, Floyd Little, and Dick LeBeau get in before some other deserving people).
People like John Madden, Farve and Manning have built their “storied” careers on a heck of a lot more then wins and losses (being in the age of 24/7 media and PFT doesn’t hurt either in pumping them up). Manning can lose another Super Bowl and Brett Farve can throw another 100 interceptions and STILL have the “it” factor when it comes to LEGACY.
Montana 4-0 in Superbowls ZERO INTERCEPTIONS and 11 TD’s that says it all
I think Peyton might end up being recognized as the greatest regular season QB ever but playoffs is what the best are really measured by.
I do have a lot of respect for Peyton and it’s great to have the most prominent face of the game have so much respect for others and truly be a good guy opposed to the juvenile, selfish, idiotic players that we hear about so often.
Manning, is far from the best all-time. IMO, just going back to 1970, AT BEST he is 5th.
Joe Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Marino, Fouts, etc. Im not being bias here. That fact is, today is a different era. The game is WAY slanted in the offenses favor. The rules favor the passing game today.
Would Ronnie Lott have let Reggie Wayne run across the middle…? Would Jack Lambert have taken it easy on Manning..? Would Lawrence Taylor have not hit Manning in the face..? Would Steve Atwater have not knocked Austin Collie into next year..?
The game is certainly entertaining today. However the game was MUCH more violent in past eras. Manning is definately a great QB. Best ever….. I think that is a stretch.
Doesn’t John Elway have a black mark on his Super Bowl Record? What about Favre? I believe Brett Lost to Denver. Is Terry Bradshaw better than Dan Marino? C’mon, man!
One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard of. Lose a Super Bowl and your legacy is destroyed and can never be the same.
Let’s forget the offense couldn’t even get on the field because New Orlean’s was doing a masterful job of hanging onto the football. Plus the interception was bad but the receiver needs to share in the blame for not coming back to the ball.
New Orlean’s played a better game. Period. Special teams put the Colts in some tough spots when they did get the ball. Manning did not work his magic but I don’t think everyone should be ready to throw him to the wolves.
That’s a retarded comparison. I hate the Steelers, but they played in a much different era with much different rules where you could basically mug receivers all day long. The rules these days favors pass happy teams.
—————-Lights Out says: February 9, 2010 11:32 AM
ok this is total bs….first off how can u even compare bradshaw or montana to peyton manning, bradshaw has a career qb rating of 70.9 and a 212 td to 210 int total, yes he won four superbowls but come on it wasnt just cuz he was good.
talking about legacy while Manning is still playing is just a waste of time. If Manning never makes it back to another SB, or never wins another one, yes, this loss will be a major blow to his legacy. But if he comes back, wins another SB or two before he is done, this becomes a footnote.
A great comparison is Kobe Bryant. Kobe lost in the NBA finals to the celtics in 2008 – there were the same type of “legacy” articles written then. But what has happened since – Kobe and the Lakers came back to win a title in 2009, and might get another one this season.
So, let’s put off the legacy talk until we know what a guy’s complete legacy is.
Its not like Manning is retiring tomorrow. Montana may be the best all time in the playoffs, but Manning has enough years left to get another, and he will hold every passing record by the time he retires. Say what you want about Manning, but he still has more Super Bowl wins then first ballot HOFers Jin Kelly,Warren Moon,and Dan Marino.
I agree with what others are saying. The clear-cut best quarterback of all-time has to be Joe Montana.
And I absolutely loath the 49ers and the teams they had in the 80′s.
Four Super Bowls. Something like nine touchdowns to zero interceptions in Super Bowls. Plus, he did it with very different teams.
My top-3:
1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Sean Salisbury
4. Peyton Manning
5. Brett Favre
Ok, I’m just kidding about one of those. Brett throws way too many picks to be in the top-5.
I’ve never really understood why so many people (fans and media alike) line up to kiss Peyton’s ass. Sure, he’s a great quarterback; but he’s not reliable in big games, and he kind of acts like a butthole on the field. I wonder if it eats him up that his brother has as many Super Bowl wins as he does (and Eli was more deserving of the MVP in that game than Peyton was in his). I think part of the problem, with the media at least, is that they/we all want to believe that our era’s good players are “the best that have ever played.”
peyton manning should not even be in the conversation of greatest ever……greatest 2nd tier between him and marino…..but he’s just not in the same class as multi-super bowl winners except for maybe ben rothlisberger….winning is not about stats…..its leading your team to victory he’s .500 in post season play
It definatly helps Peyton that he plays in a trash division. 2 relocated teams (Baltimore Colts and the Houston Oilers.) while the other 2 teams are expansion teams. One of them (The Texsans) have never been to the post season. Truely the poorest division in football. Peyton is one of the greats, but greatest? Come on. 9-9.
Sam Bowie was better then Jordan
People don’t have a problem calling Favre the best ever, and he has a “black mark” as well.
While I do think that winning a 2nd ring would have vaulted Manning into “best QB ever” consideration I think it’s alittle bit ridiculous to have the conversation about a guy that probably has 5 more years in the tank. With the Colts being as consistenly good as they are with Manning I’d be willing to bet he is going to get another shot at a 2nd ring. This is one of those stir the pot articles that really shouldn’t be talked about until his career is over.
The game is constantly changing ( especially with Goodell in charge) so it is nearly impossible to say who the best QB in the history of the NFL is, but arguments can be made for; Montana, Marino, Elway, Brady, Manning, Favre, Unitas, Starr, Staubach ………..
This is an endlessly debatable topic, and Manning’s legacy will not be known until he is no longer playing.
Idiots. If you want the true test of a great QB, go back to a time when the game was a lot tougher on the position. Think Starr. Think Unitas.
Other than Florio, Peter King and People Magazine, who F-ing cares?
@Lights Out: As mentioned above by Beastie Bills, it kind of is Mannings fault (that the rest of the team isn’t great) if he’s hogging up an enormous amount of cap space. The guy brings up a legit point. The only thing I’ll disagree with him on is Reggie Wayne not being an elite WR. The guy is a stud. He runs excellent routes, has excellent hands and is quick. Sure he’s not the physical run after catch type of guy, but he’s been up there the last few years with the best of em in the league. Now, Peyton is undoubtedly helping him along, but you can’t argue with his results.
This discussion is exactly what is both fun and frustrating about sports talk.
Manning is good, maybe the best currently. But…
is everything was constant – that is the same from the beginning – rules, equipment, philosophy, circumstances (salaries and year round training) you can have the “best ever” discussion. As it is either he is among the best or is the best of his time.
This is the same for any and all sports.
Bradshaw isn’t even in the discussion of “best ever”, which to me says that Superbowl’s aren’t the deciding factor. Marino is 20x the QB Bradshaw ever was.
It’s amazing to me that what constantly gets forgotten in talks of “best player at a position” is that this game is a team sport, so championships aren’t the deciding factor. I don’t deny they don’t have significance to a position where leadership is a factor, but QBs aren’t GMs or head coaches so their ability to win a championship for a team is grossly limited.
Championships are the tie breaker. When two guys have equally dominant career stats then you look at their record in championships. NOT the other way around.
in my oppinion if ya dont win the superbowl you lost, so bradshaw and montana both have multiple losses. only 1 team wins the superbowl each year, 31 lose, just like quarterbacks
Why does everybody still use Super Bowls as the measuring stick for great quarterbacks? It is the ultimate team game and no quarterback can do anything on his own.
Using that formula Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Joe Theisman, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler and Eli Manning are higher on the “Best QB All-Time List” than Dan Marino?
Joe Montana was good, but if you put him on the Dolphins and Marino on the 49ers it never would have been close. Marino would have enough rings that he’d have to put a few on his toes.
I don’t think a QB should be judged based on the Superbowl rings he has.
The Superbowl is a team accomplishment, not a personal one.
Reasonable is right….that division sucks. Jags, suck. Titans, sucked for the most part. Texans, never been to playoffs.
But hey….lets not forget there are 4 pro bowl quarterbacks in that division though.
Meh, Manning is over rated. And now he’ll never be undefeated in the Super Bowl, like the great Trent Dilfer.
I disagree. These columnists are so swayed by “what have you done for me lately” reasoning as opposed to the player’s body of work. Peyton Manning has been the crucial ingredient every single season in the team’s success. The Colts’‘D’has never been elite, their run game has been pedestrian, his receiving corp good to solid at times, and yet he continues to put up exceptional numbers and controls a game better than anyone.
The turning point in my mind in the Superbowl was Garcon’s dropped pass on third down mid-way through the second quarter when Indy was driving and attempted to answer New Orleans’momentum. If they complete that drive and score, it’s a completely different game. If they’re up 17-3, I doubt Manning is put in a position to put up that pick. Then, we’d all be annointing him the best ever. Instead, somehow Bradshaw is ahead of him. I don’t buy it.
To be the best of all time you first have to be the best of your generation .Pats went to 4 SB and won three .,the Steelers went to 2 and won .The Colts with Manning went to two and won one.
Throw in the Ravens,and Rams and what you get
is the fact that despite all the hype the Colts won
only once .So if the supposed best qb of all time
shows up only once holding the Lombardi then it must mean the Super Bowls are fixed .Right ?
Or could it just be that regular seasons wins and stats are just that REGULAR SEASON .Post season is where the hardware is won and Peyton and the Colts are just over hyped as well as overrated .
The best QB of all time is Bart Starr! There is no argument on this. Just because Starr played part of his career before Super Bowls doesn’t mean he isn’t the best QB of all time. The man won FIVE championships, including two Super Bowls. He is the ONLY quarterback to ever win three straigh championships (1965, 1966, 1967) the latter two including Super Bowls. He called his own plays all the time and played in an era when the quarterback actually got hit with little regard for safety.
BART STARR IS THE BEST OF ALL TIME!
The Colts dont need a physical WR, they are a timing route passing offense.
The Colts don’t win sh** the past 12 years without #18. He’s carried that team. Granted he was far from perfect on Sunday, but Garcon’s drop, Baskett’s “effort” on the on-sides kick and the fact that their defense played their worst game of the year certainly was not his fault.
I think Marino wins a couple of Super Bowls on those Steeler and 49er teams as well. At some point, the rest of the team needs to rise up to the level of it’s best player.
Montana isn’t the best retired quarterback.
His name is Dan Marino.
He will hold that title until Peyton Manning retires.
Hahahahahahaha! I was waiting for this article to show up. You waited just enough time for the hullaballoo to settle down before dropping this predictable bomb.
Last week you said Manning was poised to go down as the best ever.
This week he’ll have a perpetual black mark on his name and he’ll never be the best ever.
Ok then.
The fact is it’s a team sport. Manning alone doesn’t dictate the success of the Colts. He’s a huge part, no doubt. But he doesn’t come up with the schemes. And he doesn’t play all the other positions. The achilles heel of the Colts is that they play a predictable offense. They do it very very well. But it’s still one-dimensional. The Saints had the much more rounded team and they had the much less predictable offense. IMO that made them more likely to win. And they did, just barely. The score belies how close the game actually was.
Until there is some surefire statistical way of normalizing the differences in scheme, coaching and talent there’s no way to tell who the best qb is. It’s all opinion. The most you can do is try to make a guess as to how tied the team record is to the qb. I think on this measure alone it’s clear that Peyton is the best qb in the league. While it is subjective there is nobody really even close. The problem is he just doesn’t play on the best team.
If Manning wants to be considered the best ever he’ll have to take the next step in leadership and be willing to rejig the offense to lessen his importance. That’s ironic right? But if he really wants to lay claim to the title that’s what it will take. It should be obvious that he’s one of the top 2 or 3 players at that position ever. Now that’s his legacy. Should he make a mid-career adjustment to force the team to be more multi-dimensional, and they win another, he’ll be known as someone who rightly earned the label as the best qb to ever play.
You’re right about one thing, there is no one definitive greatest QB of all-time. Montana has the championship but his number hardly compare to Farve or Marino. Any list that has Bradshaw or Aikman in the top 5 best QB’s of all-time simply because of titles is a joke. Plus comparing from generation to generation is nearly impossible considering how the game has evolved. I think the best you do is categorize them.
Smartest – between Montana and Manning
Toughest – Brett Farve
Best arm – 1. Marino 2. Elway
Best at reading defense – Brady
Coolest under pressure – Montana
Luckiest – Bradshaw
Unluckiest – Fran Tarkenton
Brady > peyton
And how many probowlers did Bradshaw have around him as compared to Brady (rhetorical).
I think this was Peyton’s last trip to the big game.
So if Peyton wins the next 4 Super Bowls in a row, he’s still not better than Montana? A douchebagsayswhat?
manginiwithcheese says:
February 9, 2010 11:29 AM
I get so sick of the media trying to annoint Manning as the best ever. He’s not even the best of his era IMO. That belongs to Brady. Last I looked, Brady’s SB loss wasn’t due to an INT (he drove NE downfield for the go-ahead TD), but a Tyree’s fluke catch.
———————————————-
I completely agree, except for the fluke catch part. replace “fluke” with “amazing”.
Secondly, the “greatest quarterback ever” debate is pointless and not an accurate assesment of the position. Especially in it’s relation to the history of the NFL.
You cannot accuratly make a top 5 or top 10.
The careers of 4 quarterbacks have distringuished themselves beyond everyone else.
In no order: Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, John Elway and Dan Marino. A realistic argument can be made for either of those 4 as the greatest ever.
After that you have to start looking at tiers of greatness.
2nd tier: Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre
3rd tier: Otto Graham, Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Roger Staubach and yes Hillbilly Terry Bradshaw, who has 2 SB MVPs and cannon arm to go along with his 4 SB titles.
A lot of people have played quarterback, and there have been a lot of great ones like: Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Sonny Jorgensen Kurt Warner, Sammy Baugh, Joe Namath, Bart Starr, Ken Stabler, Bernie Kosar, Len Dawson, Dan Pastirini, Don Meredith, Joe Theisman, Bob Griese, Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, Bert Jones, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms to name a lot; who’s careers were highly productive and accomplished yet they aren’t on the same level as the pantheon of quarterback gods I mentioned in the begining of my post. Not because they were bad players or because what they did wasn’t great, but because of how great those mentioned earlier were/are.
My point is, when arguing about the greatest of all time, you can’t really begin to rank them numerically because it only yields bias results. Instead, take about 12 that stood out, look and truthfully see that if all things are equal, who would you take over who and you will widdle it down to probably the same tiers I have provided.
The purpose is to win Championships. If you remove Championships, people like Marino have to get into the equation.
Look I am a Saints fan and a Peyton fan and going into the SB, I would have debated that Peyton is the best all time. That being said I took a deeper look recently and found the below…
Postseason records and SB Ratings…
Tom Brady 14-3 with a SB Rating of 95.1 (4 SB’s)
Peyton Manning 9-9 with SB Ratings of 81.8 and 88.5
Kurt Warner 8-3 with a SB Rating of 95.9 (3 SB’s)
Listen, Peyton is a very good QB but I am not sure that he is the best of his generation, let alone the best ever. So how do you compare Tom Brady who played most of his postseason career with Branch, Givens, and some of the bloggers here, yet amassed a 14-3 records and a SB rating >90 to Peyton who is 9-9 and >90 rating. Listen of his generation, during big money games, he is third best (behind Brady and Warner) – not sure Dominic Rhodes shouldn’t have been the MVP of SB XLI
“So even if Manning’s Colts win four more Super Bowls, nothing will erase the thing that neither Montana nor Bradshaw have on the other side of their quartet of Super Bowl wins: a loss.”
Florio this one statement has a major impact on you legacy and is by far the most ignorant statement you have ever made. Of all your posted stories, this one statement will stick out in my mind forever when I hear the name Mike Florio…so what he has a SB loss? it does say a lot by him just leading his team there. If Peyton wins just one more SB, there in no way in hell anyone in their right mind can honestly feel his legacy is tarnished by one loss in 3 trips or one loss in 4 trips. Give me a break!!
BallState92 says:
February 9, 2010 11:28 AM
It’s a bit early to start thinking legacy, dontcha think? He’s still got a few years left. Also, Manning doesn’t have the supporting cast that Montana and Bradshaw had. They were great quarterbacks, but neither one had to do as much of the heavy lifting as Peyton does. This is from a Colts fan since they moved to Indy in 1984…
————————————————-
I expect more from a Cardnial. (Lived in Muncie all my life.) Heavy lifting? Marshal Faulk, Marvin Harrison, Ken Dilger, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Terrik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and these guys are not a terriffic supporting cast? Really?
A bunch of anal retentive football fans trying to debate the undebata le. ESPN has really ruined you guys.
Try respecting all the greats by stopping stupid GOAT talk, and respecting the game by realizing stats are subjective and a better tool in Baseball which is where the Stat Logic you try to use for the NFL started, and actaully means something.
If I read one more of you sports cpa’s use number of rings or QB ratings as some kind of defninitive context I will puke. I realize that the weak minded have a need to put a label on everything around them in the universe inorder to feel comfortable, but I just had to say STFU.
They are all great, and we will never know if Tyson could beat Ali or vice versa. Put your toys away children and quit playing.
Burts Renyolds is the best – didnt anybody see him in “The Longest Yard”?
Saying Terry Bradshaw WON four Superbowls is like saying Tom Brady WON three Superbowls… it’s a load of BS. Both QB’s benefitted from having superb Defenses, as well as all around solid team talent. In Brady’s case, he also benefitted from having one of the best clutch kickers of all time!
I know this is true of all sports, but it is nearly impossible to compare QB’s across eras.
anyone who doesn’t think peyton is the best QB ever has clearly never watched a colts game in the last decade. this loss does exactly nothing to change his place as best ever.
eli is still undefeated in superbowls.
Hey fellas, you know it’s like I say, your record say’s what you are, the fact’s:
9-9 record in the playoffs ( ah problem # 1)
1-1 Super Bowl (ah problem # 2)
1-0 Eli Manning Super Bowl(ah problem # 3)
Archie will sheet his pant’s when he read’s this, sorry Arch, you still have Eli.
Why don’t we wait until he finally hangs it up before we make a decision.
It’s irritating that the sports writers annoint him as the second coming of Joe Montana before the Super Bowl even kicked off and then tear him down from that imaginary pedestal shortly after the loss. It’s all these columnists who have nothing to talk about so they begin the premature evaluation of someone’s career years, maybe even a decade before it ends.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard Manning say he is the best ever.
A SB loss wont hurt his legacy any more than it did Elway.
If he gets up to 4 SB wins he will be the best ever, regardless of this loss. Hell, even without the wins, his skills alone put him into the conversation and at a minimum list him at #4 all time, and he hsnt retired yet.
Why aren’t Ryan Leaf or Rob Johnson ever in these discussions? Those guys had mad skills …
Legacy?!?!?! He still has a lot of playing time left to carve that stone yet. I am a Saints fan and I seen many of Colts games and we are watching one of the best QB’s to have ever played the game. Remember this is a team sport first and foremost but no way the Colts get to the SB without Manning.
Brady has an MVP and 2 more superbowl wins and 3 more apperances . so cram it florio
Montana: 4 Superbowl wins, 3 Superbowl MVPS
In the Superbowl: 11 TDs, 0 INTs
Game over. It’s amazing that there is even a discussion.
By the way, for you Bradshaw people — the guy threw exactly as many INTs during his career as he threw touchdown passes (222)…. and that was with a littany of Hall of Famers around him. He’s not even in the Top 20. I could have won a Superbowl with that roster.
Peyton is the greatest:
Crybaby and sore loser.
Great traits, like throw your offensive line under the bus..remember that one?
The whole argument over Super Bowl records is ridiculous.
I love Joe Montana, and he is 4-0 in the Super Bowl. However, there are 8-9 years where he didn’t get to the Super Bowl, so who’s to say if the Niners did get there any of those years they would have beaten the great team from that year.
The 1980s were dominated by the NFC, minus a few fluke Raider wins. The Niners didn’t have to face any of the Bears, Giants, Eagles, or Redskins teams of the era in the Super Bowl since they were usually losing to them in the playoffs.
If we are splitting hairs, slaughtering clearly inferior AFC Dolphins and Broncos teams, and slipping past the Bengals twice doesn’t clearly prove you are the best ever.
You can only play the best team in the other conference each year. And as we know, each year is different. Especially when teams are limited in what they can spend and the players have more free agent rights than they did 25 years ago.
Ekway, Marino, Staubach, Kelly, Dawson, Brady, and Favre all lost Superbowls.;. and now Manning… they should all be rounded up an killed! What nerve those guys have losing Superbowls.. THEY’RE TERRIBLE! I can’t believe the NFL ever allowed any of them to play, what an embarrassing group of LOSERS!
I’m tired of hearing if Manning was on the Steelers he would win infinity Superbowls. If you do, really don’t understand football and must worship everything ESPN says (or Fox News). Manning has had it all on his team. He’s had #1 picks across the board on offense to help him, an all-pro O-line, Edge had 4 1500 yard seasons (something a Steelers RB has never done), and this year didn’t his D allow the least points in the league for a majority of the season? I remember in 2007 his D was ranked #2 in the league. While he’s a top 3 QB of all time, he is also the MOST OVERRATED QB IN THE LEAGUE.
Manning’s offense averaged just 13 points per game in his playoff losses. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Maybe he just sucks in the post season. Come on people, the teams he beat in the postseason include the Ravensx2, Jets, Kansas City and Chicago Bears. That means old McNair, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchize, Trent Green lol, Rex Grossman.
Bottom line, he sucks in the postseason.
This is a useless argument. Despite having never won a Superbowl the clear “Greatest Quarterback” of all time was and remains, Dan Marino.
The man was essentially on the field with a front line and two receivers. No running game, ever. And no defense to speak of during his entire career.
Had the Dolphins never sent a defense out to try to oppose the other offense, the games would have essentially been exactly the same in the end. Because it was Marino and those few listed above that made them competative
Every coach and every team and every player in the NFL knew every single game what he was going to do and despite that noone was capable of stopping him. *The 49rs did a good job that one SuperBowl* but there again, they had a complete team.
All the other Quarterbacks listed here all without exception had complete and balanced teams around them.
Only Dan Marino achieved what he did, in a way never done before, and in many ways still, since.
He was the ultimate Passing Quarterback.
Again I say, every single one of the other Quarterbacks suggested for this, not once, found themeselves in situations where they were so hampered by the lack of supporting casts.
That seals it.
“Super Bowl loss has major impact on Peyton’s
legacy”
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have never been a Kobe fan but the man has the rings to go with the attitude.LeBraun on the other hand was annointed but has yet to win anything .So to make the analogy to football
if Sir James get a ring this year that makes him Peyton Manning .One ring and he becomes instantly better than Kobe because he is the annointed one .Rings are the things not the records for proof just watch how the guys with
multiple champioships are treated .
Manning had little impact on Manning’s legacy of being one of the biggest post season chokers in the history of the game, perhaps the biggest. The only year they won they had constant help from the refs, and even that was barely enough.
The word Manning will be associated with the word Choke for a long long time to come.
Brasho, don’t kill them, just beat them badly with
a shoe, they will understand.
Come on now, if we all put our personal biases aside for a minute, surely everyone would agree that it’s virtually impossible to pick a clear cut winner in this debate. Different eras, different teams, different fules, styles of offense, etc.
How about this though? Manning, Brady, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Bradshaw, Starr, Unitas….. and whoever else you want to throw in there are all 22 years old and available for this year’s draft. Who goes first?
Let’s just focus on this era. Here are the QB’s that have led a lead-changing TD drive in the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl the last 3 years:
Tom Brady
Kurt Warner
ELI Manning
Big Ben
Drew Brees
Isn’t somebody missing from that list? Can Peyton be consider the “greatest” when he didn’t step up like EVERY other QB in recent SB’s?
Montana is the greatest. Would be tough to argue with those who believe Otto Graham (all those championship in a “dead ball” era) or Unitas because he put up stats in a different era plus championship, plus played in and won potentially most important NFL game ever.
Beyond those two though, all anyone has is “excuses” as to why their QB should be the greatest (mainly “If then’s”) which have no basis. Montana/Graham/Unitas have REASONS why they could be the greatest.
If/then’s are weak. If Montana had never been born and was born in , then would’ve been drafted by 49ers and had chance to play with Craig, Rice, etc. so would’ve won instead of “only 4″. They didn’t, Montana did, deal with it, luck plays a factor. Move on.
MF,
For the first time you are right. Manning will probably get one more but 2-3 is not likely based on the Colts’track record. You really can’t compare greatness from eras because offensive and defensive gameplans are much different today.
As a Colts fan I am ashamed of how fickle other Colts fans are. I am a REAL Colts fan since they were 1-15 and had horrible QB’s like Hogeboom, George, Erickson etc. I remember when they busted on Entmann and Coryatt in the same year and have and will continue to support the Colts.
Unfortunately most of the representation now are all bandwagoners that came on since Peyton was drafted. Now these people are turning their back on the Colts again. This team has another SB championship run in it but is not built for post season dominance. It is what it is. We will go through this again when Manning gets his second title and gets bounced in the first round the following season. I will be along for the ride 16-0 or 0-16!
Floria, I’ve got something for you here.
It seems to me that this all amounts to money. The reason that quarterbacks like Manning, Favre, and Marino have so much trouble winning Superbowls is because their too good. Sure this may seem like crazy talk, but I don’t think it is.
When you have top notch QBs like Manning or Favre, you have to pay them top dollar. This takes away from the rest of the team. Since Football is the ultimate team sport, this means it’s harder to win Superbowls.
QBs with multiple rings are not as good technically, but they have a better overall supporting cast. That’s a fact. Look at the 49ers during the 80s. They had depth at every position. Look at the Pats during the 00′s. They won their Superbowls when Brady was cheap by comparison. The same is true with the Steelers last couple SB wins.
The fact remains that if you want to win Superbowls, you have to do it fast while your QB doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg. Once they hit the pay grade of a Payton Manning or Brett Favre, watch out. You simply can’t afford to put a team around them that can win multiple championships.
And yes, I am suggesting that Manning, Favre and Marino are technically better quarterbacks than Montana, Brady and Bradshaw. These guys were good, hell yeah, but they had better teams around them, because they were good and cheaper than the top notch talents of the “Touchdown Kings”. That can be our new name for them. We have the TD Kings and the “Superbowl Winning Machines”. You arguably can’t do both. Not at the same time anyway.
All I hear is excuses for the GOAT, once you have to make excuses it is over!!!!!
You can’t be the greatest without the rings and when your little bro has the same amount of rings, you are not even better than him.Eli beat the BIG BAD Patriots( no taping allowed).
Montana 4 -0
Bradshaw4-0
Aikman 3-0
Rothlisberger 2-0
Brady 3-0 ***( the taping thing again)
Rather not talk about the Colts, Florio, if you can only write BS!
I think Manning is over-hyped based on his stats.
It isn’t hard for a QB to rack up great stats when they play a majority of their time w/o having to face inclement weather ( Marino comes to mind). But just looking at the past years schedule-
Manning plays 50% of his games EVERY year in a dome (same this time)
His road games
Jax, Tenn, Hou (these 3 SOUTHERN teams every year)
Mia, Ari, StL, Bal, & Buff.
Please explain why anyone should be impressed by someone that can pile up stats under such favorable conditions year after year ,while the same guy has such a lousy playoff record.
What Montana and Bradshaw (and Brady) had over Manning is a complete team. In all their SB wins, those guys had pretty outrageously well-rounded teams, usually including other stars. Would Montana win 3 SBs without Rice? Would Bradshaw have, without that defense?
This SB shows clearly that Manning’s legacy, and his present success, is being harmed by the Colts organization. Surprise-success stories like Garcon don’t change the fact the team has been getting by on a shoestring for years.
That caught up with them in this SB. I think that if the Colts had just tackled better, they would have won the game. Not much excuse for that at this level. I think a lot of it is a reflection of coaching.
None of the other “greatest ever” candidates had to work with such a patched-together team. If Polian doesn’t get the picture and do something, fast, then you can file the Colts alongside the Atlanta Braves, Buffalo Bills, and Marino Dolphins.
Taken singly, there’s never been a QB who commands the game like Manning does. Ever. But this SB showed that even someone like that can’t do it alone.
For those who say you can’t compare Montana and Manning because Manning has years left to play.
Guess what? They’ve both played the same amount of regular season games — 192.
So yes you can easily compare them.
Yeah… not really Florio. It’s a team game and it’s not up to won player to win or lose it all.
If all we count are “DA RINGZ” then Bradshaw is the best ever.
Hell, Marino is better than Terry.
Just realize that these guys are all great and Peyton’s still one of the best.
Anyone who says differently is just football retarded.
Media made Peyton Manning who he is. He is earning MILLIONS in endorsements and we were bombarded with media messages calling him the greatest of all time a week ago.
Now he’s the guy who’s 9 – 9 in his career in the playoffs… and the Colts are the Atlanta Braves of the NFL.
He’s probably not as great or as average as your hype machine makes him out to be.
He does benefit from the hype though.
But he is the best combination QB and head coach in the league. He has run the team for several years now….hasn’t he?
Peyton’s a Manning…like his Dad. All stats. Big L on his forehead!
There never has been, and never will be, a “Michael Jordan-type” quarterback because football is not a “basketball-type” sport. One dominant player can take over a basketball game, but one player simply cannot take over a football game. Even if a QB is able to execute an offense to perfection, he isn’t out there on defense or kickoffs. This, in my opinion, is what makes football so much fun to watch: you never know who might emerge and play a crucial role in a game.
Oh, and NightTrainNeckTie: Otto Graham is 3rd tier? With 7 championships in a 10-year career? I can’t agree with that.
In 15 years, when all of Mannings’records are broken by the next “all time greatest” QB, Montana will still be in this discussion…..Manning, not so much (remember, Marino used to be a contender for this title years back). Manning’s legacy is no different than what Marino’s would have been had he won a SB.
Actually worse than Marino’s would have been since he’s already lost so many big games.
Hell.. Dan Marino’s a better QB than Brady.
This “all about DA RINGZ” is for morons.
Laffing Stock says:
February 9, 2010 12:48 PM
Montana: 4 Superbowl wins, 3 Superbowl MVPS
In the Superbowl: 11 TDs, 0 INTs
Game over. It’s amazing that there is even a discussion.
By the way, for you Bradshaw people — the guy threw exactly as many INTs during his career as he threw touchdown passes (222)…. and that was with a littany of Hall of Famers around him. He’s not even in the Top 20. I could have won a Superbowl with that roster.
————————————
Have you watched replays of the 4 SB’s Bradshaw won genius? Other than Super Bowl 9 tell me another one they could have won without him. He might be a hillbilly, but he played his ass off in those other three wins. He was not carried to a Super Bowl championship by his defense like Trent Dilfer was.
In the modern era it comes down to Marino, Favre and Manning. Montana never had to carry the team like these guys did so he didn’t have to take chances. These 3 had to throw downfield and play lights out to win every game.
Why do you have to be the greatest super bowl quarterback ever to also be the greatest quarterback ever. Peyton is clearly the best regular season quarterback ever, has performed personally well in the playoffs and in superbowls, and has won a superbowl.
Now, Peyton is getting criticized for losing the superbowl, which implies that he would have been better off losing in the conference finals or some other, non-superbowl-winning finish like bradshaw did in all but 4 years. That’s silly too; second place is pretty damn good.
If you only focus on superbowl wins, then you end up having to make a case that Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino, and that is clearly moronic.
was “Rochelle, Rochelle” playing on the factory installed dvd player in the Vanagon?
If Reche Caldwell could catch then this conversation would be moot.
Lewballer3
I respect you.
I live in Indy, tho not a Colts fan. I know some of you long timers and get along just fine with you folks. It’s the “others” that trash the team then root for them when they are on top, then go back to trashing them when they loose. I don’t like or respect those folks.
Aikman 3-0
nuff said
Since Brett Favre insists on pronouncing his last name as”farv” instead of “fav-ray” or “fa-vor” as it is spelled, I insist we call Brett “Bert” from here on out.
So Bradshaw is a better quarterback than Manning cuz he won 4 SBs?!
Manning is not the best ever, but making that one mistake in an otherwise great performance doesn’t mean he’s not great.
At least his pick wasn’t as bone-headed as Favre’s.
Eli has as many rings AND a better playoff winning %.
Not sayin Eli’s the best ever, but in the Superbowl, damn right he’s better than his brother.
Well stated DLMFanView and anyone that gave props to Otto Graham. In all honesty, Favre and Manning aren’t even the greatest quarterbacks on the teams in which they built their legacy.
@Maddog
I am with you that Bradshaw is VASTLY under ratted. He played great in all 4 SBs he was in and really turned Swann and Stallworth into great WRs. The problem is Montana has better numbers both in the post season and regular season. So even if you call the 4 Super Bowls each a tie, than Montana will come out on top.
My Best Evers
To clear up any bias I am a Niners and Steelers fan, and I hate the Cowboys, the Raiders as well as the AFC North. However I don’t feel my bias contributed to the selection of these players in any fashion.
Best QB ever – Joe Montana
Best WR ever – Jerry Rice
Best RB ever – I have no clue, I want to say Walter Payton, but its too hard to decide.
Best OL ever – Larry Allen (played for the Cowboys during their dynasty era for those who don’t follow linemen)
Best DL ever – Mean Joe Green
Best LB ever – Lawrence Taylor
Best Safety ever – Ronnie Lott
Best Corner ever – Mel Blount (had to change the rules because of him)
Best Kicker ever – Gary Anderson hahaha just kidding its Adam Nugetari (Vinitari for those that missed the Snikers commercials)
Best Punter ever – Ray Guy (played for Oakland for those who don’t follow punters)
Best KR ever – Joshua Cribbs (I think he does have the record so what more can you say?)
Best PR ever – Dante Hall (best I ever saw)
Best 3rd down back ever – Roger Craig (he wasn’t really a 3rd down back as thats fairly new but he had three 2000 yard seasons in a row in all purpose yards)
Best offensive coach ever – Bill Walsh
Best defensive coach ever – Dick LeBeu (for those who say Tom Landry be patient)
Best motivating coach – Tom Landry
Human Howitzer says:
February 9, 2010 1:14 PM
Oh, and NightTrainNeckTie: Otto Graham is 3rd tier? With 7 championships in a 10-year career? I can’t agree with that.
——————————————-
Third Tier of greatness! C’mon don’t leave out the greatness part, atleast I put him in the conversation! BTW he’s got an NBA title as well. Pretty badass. Not all of those 7 championships are NFL titles though, in the interest of full disclosure.
Otto Graham, first guy to wear a face mask, first quarterback to throw behind a modern pass protection scheme= the cup. First Quarterback to utilize bootlegs as well and the first quarterback to lead a non-NFL team to an NFL title and the first to appear on Wheaties Box.
Brodie Croyle>peyton manning
Otto Graham…best ever.
Go Browns!
Hey Reasonable…
I have a few questions for you, ok! First, other than his TEAM, not only him winning 3 Super Bowls and his one fantastic season in 2007, what has Tom “CRY BABY” Brady done to earn the title of greatest quarterback of his era? Also, if Super Bowl victories determines who the greatest individual players are, then does that mean that Jerome Bettis, or Tim Smith, or Joseph Addai, or Reggie Bush are better than Barry Sanders, or Adrian Peterson, or LaDanian Tomlinson? The latter group have never won a Super Bowl!! That logic is ridiculous and anyone who believes it is ridiculous as well. All of you who use SB victories solely to determine the greatest players are all just haters of individuals who do not play for your teams. I am a Redskin fan, but there is no doubt in my mind who the greates quarterback of all times is, and by the end of his career everyone with any brains at all will agree…PEYTON MANNING!!!!!
this class sucks says:
February 9, 2010 2:00 PM
@Maddog
I am with you that Bradshaw is VASTLY under ratted. He played great in all 4 SBs he was in and really turned Swann and Stallworth into great WRs. The problem is Montana has better numbers both in the post season and regular season. So even if you call the 4 Super Bowls each a tie, than Montana will come out on top.
——————————————
I agree with you, if I had to pick between the two I’d take Montana. And a handful of other qb’s over Bradshaw, but Bradshaw never gets enough credit for those championships. People forget how he carried those teams.
When you look at what Peyton does from his position year in and year out with in my opinion somewhat average offensive talent surrounding him I don’t think there is any question he is one of the best ever.
Super bowl rings are a team accomplishment and using that factor to define which QB’s are better is stupidity. Sure, the analysts that make the money and shape public perception point at rings but it doesn’t mean everyone has to be that ignorant.
Hey Reasonable…
I have a few questions for you, ok! First, other than his TEAM, not only him winning 3 Super Bowls and his one fantastic season in 2007, what has Tom “CRY BABY” Brady done to earn the title of greatest quarterback of his era? Also, if Super Bowl victories determines who the greatest individual players are, then does that mean that Jerome Bettis, or Tim Smith, or Joseph Addai, or Reggie Bush are better than Barry Sanders, or Adrian Peterson, or LaDanian Tomlinson? The latter group have never won a Super Bowl!! That logic is ridiculous and anyone who believes it is ridiculous as well. All of you who use SB victories solely to determine the greatest players are all just haters of individuals who do not play for your teams. I am a Redskin fan, but there is no doubt in my mind who the greates quarterback of all times is, and by the end of his career everyone with any brains at all will agree…PEYTON MANNING!!!!!
Otto Graham is the best QB of all time and I’m not even a sorry Browns fan.
10 seasons played, 10 title appearances, 7 titles. Game over.
It’s not Otto Graham’s fault the term “Super Bowl” wasn’t coined until ’67. And don’t feed me that bull crap about “if it’s not a Super Bowl, it doesn’t count”…..if that’s the case, we can change the name of the World Series to the “Fall Baseball Championship” and then claim the Yankees have never won any titles.
Graham even played one year of professional basketball and guess what?? He won the title in basketball that year too.
Joe Montana is one of the best ever, but not THE best. He played on one of the greatest TEAMS ever assembled. In each of Montana’s 4 SB years, their D was never ranked lower than 10th and all but one year they were ranked in the top 5 in rushing. Montana played big in big games, he’s top 3 at worst, but not best ever.
in the 70s Si ran a feature article about ‘the many faces of tom landry.
lots of pictures. all with a different emption typed underneath.
same damn pic every time.
best motivating coach? i dont think so (review 1966-1970).
best all around at Xs and Os, both sides of the ball + special teams. probably.
Joe Montana isn’t even the best 49er QB of all time. Making a list of “best evers” is pointless. Montana/Young wouldn’t have been what they were without Rice. Rice wouldn’t have been what he was without Montana/Young. However, even though I’m not a Colt fan, I believe Peyton is the best QB ever. Those teams never even get a sniff of the playoffs without him at QB. If he had the talent around him that most of the other playoff teams had, the guy would have 4 or 5 rings by now.
Putting Bradshaw in the conversation just makes you sound like an idiot who has never watched a down of NFL. In all my years of watching football, his name never comes up when talking about the best QBs.
I do not see my comment on the board. Please check it out.
# GoBrowns19 says: February 9, 2010 11:28 AM
I don’t buy it. If Manning was on those Steeler teams, they would have won 7 super bowls rather
******
You’re kidding, right? Seriously, do you think that Chuck Noll would have taken Manning’s (or even Favre’s) crap if he had tried to audible out of a run in his first couple of years? Let’s not forget (and most of you do) that the game was MUCH DIFFERENT back then and coaches were MUCH DIFFERENT back then. It took them 5 years from the moment that Bradshaw joined the team to win the Super Bowl and Terry was actually benched that Super Bowl season for Gilliam, despite going 19-4 as a starter in the previous two seasons. He also would have had no way of pulling off the kind of timing routes that he’s permitted these days because the rules on contact didn’t come into play until 1978, as did the change in pass blocking, which permitted extending the hands by the linemen. Are you starting to see how the game could be so much different that he wouldn’t be able to do what he’s done today – especially if his coach WANTS to run?
Oh and Joe Montana has TWO Jerry Rice-less Super Bowl rings and was 7-1 in the playoffs before Rice even got to the team and had NO running game when they won the first one.
Super Bowls are won by TEAMS!!!!! If that is the only measuring stick for greatness, then that means that players such as Tim Smith, Jerome Bettis, Dominick Rhodes, Joseph Addai, etc. are better than Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, etc. which have never won a Super Bowl. Come on idiots, greatness is defined by one’s performance on the field and off, year after year…screw the rings!!!!! Peyton is without question the greatest performer on and off the field ever…individual stats don’t lie, but team stats can be deceiving!!! WAKE UP YOU FOOTBALL FAN WANNA BES!!!!
jrshep389 and others, raise your hand if you believe that the goal of every player is to win the championship on the field or is it to win the statistical championship? Quickly, I’m waiting……
The problem I have with people insisting that Montana was the best ever is they also ignore how good SF’s running game and D were at the time. Also, the guy with the best career QB rating of all time is not even in this conversation: Steve Young. So, as I said before, a bunch of nonsense.
I agree that staking Peytons “best ever” status on one super bowl is a bit outrageous. Have we forgotten all the amazing things he has accomplished in his 12 year career? Also so what if they lost the super bowl, they are human, they make mistakes, no one is perfect. I will be a devoted colts fan forever because of what that franchise stands for and what great people they are. Not for how many super bowls they win. Nobodys perfect, its not the first time he’s made a mistake, but that doesnt make him a bad quarterback. How he bounces back from the loss will prove how great he is.
Peyton Manning has everything set up for him to have great passing stats and the Colts are such a regular season juggernaut because they win with offense and most teams can’t match their firepower. He plays indoors. He’s had the same OC his whole career. He’s had amazingly minimal turnover in offensive personnel (he’s been throwing to Wayne and Clark for SEVEN years!). He’s always had 1 or 2 elite pass-catchers. And since he never gets hurt, of course he is going to put up good-to-great numbers year-in and year-out.
But what happens when playoff time comes around? Sometimes he has to step outside in the cold or play teams with decent defenses and his offense simply doesn’t click. The Colts have never won when they had to lean on Manning. They took it all in ’06 because of their D and running game.
@akuehn713: Joe Montana was good, but if you put him on the Dolphins and Marino on the 49ers it never would have been close. Marino would have enough rings that he’d have to put a few on his toes.
@db3300: Joe Montana isn’t even the best 49er QB of all time. Making a list of “best evers” is pointless. Montana/Young wouldn’t have been what they were without Rice.
You knuckleheads are clueless. Marino has ZERO rings for one primary reason: he was a shitty leader of men. Compare him to Montana: 49er receiver drops a pass, Joe goes RIGHT back to him and restores his confidence. No screaming at him, no Manning face, just support. Look back at Marino. He spent the entire game yelling at his teammates for making him look bad. Drop a pass? Marino is screaming at you as you return to the huddle. He whined all game long, week in and week out. Don’t believe it? Go back and look at the highlights. Joe? 100% opposite. The consummate teammate, leader of men. Brees is very much like Joe in this regard, but that’s another can of worms altogether.
As for Montana being “made” by Rice – you nimrod, Rice wasn’t even there yet when Joe won his first 2 SB’s. The 1981 team, especially on offense, was a COMPLETELY no-name group of guys that he led to the promised land. The 1984 team included a young Roger Craig and Russ Francis on offense, but was otherwise very ordinary, including the WRs. The last 2 teams were definitely dominant – but I’d argue that the ascension of many of those players was directly related to playing with Joe.
Manning doesn’t even belong in this conversation, at least not yet. Let’s judge him when his career is over. But as of right now, he’s maybe Top 5, but absolutely not #1. Montana is the clear #1, without question.
Everyone better listen to jrshep389 cause if yall don’t, he’ll keep posting the same crap over and over again! We get it man, we’re all idiots and you’re the man! I mean, YOU’RE THE MAN!!!!!
So individual stats don’t lie, huh? How do you account for dropped passes being counted as incompletions/interceptions, the wind factor on fg’s, botched handoffs, etc.?And how is Manning the greatest performer OFF the field ever?
edgy1957…
I have not said that the players’goal is to win the statistical championship…that is not even the conversation here…have you been reading the blogs???? All players would love to win the championship, but as pointed out earlier, Manning has never claimed to be the greatest ever, and he has repeated countless times that individual stats are not his priority, yet everyone continues to criticize him countlessly. One thing that sets Manning apart from the other QBs being discussed is that the Colts’success is based solely on his play since 1999, not taking away from his team!! I say this because teams such as the 49ers and Steelers have won multiple SBs with different QBs…do you honestly believe that the Colts would even have a winning team without Peyton??? If so, then you need to wake up!!!!!
Reasonable says: February 9, 2010 11:42 AM
Tom Brady is the best Qb of this era. He may even finish as the best of all time.
————————————————–
Yes, Brady is a good QB, but he’s nowhere near as good a Manning is. He’s benefited more from his team over the years than Manning has his. There’s a big difference between the two. It’s not even close, despite Brady having three Super Bowl wins. Him being considered best ever is a laugh at best. He’s not even in the top ten right now, let alone “best ever”. Manning has easily already cracked the top ten plateau. You Patriot fans need ot give it a rest. Besides, by Florio’s logic, he can’t be considered, because he’s lost a Super Bowl.
Right now I would say even Big Ben is better than Brady, so Resonable, you pipe dream seems rather unreasonable.
Brady is 14-4 in the post season with 28TD’s and 16 INT’s. 3 super bowl titles with one loss. He plays outside in the worst weather. Had “trash “for WR’s until 2007.
Manning is 9-9 in the post season has been surrounded by a Hall of Fame HB in Marshal Fualk then Hall of Fame (soon will be) Marvin Harrison. And now has elite TE Dallas Clark and Elite Reggie Wayne. (Edge too) his post season stats are 29 TD’s 20 INTs 9-9 record.
Lets recap
Brady 14-4 28 TD’s 16 INT’s
Manning 9-9 29 TD’s 20 INT’s
(with more taleted WR/RB ‘s) Defense has nothing to do with this compairison. I use the post season A) No powder Puffs and B) how does the QB perform under pressure. In this era. Tom Brady is the best QB. Clutch, Statistical, Pressure. He wins in a sweep. Sorry no need to name call just because I proved you wrong. It all just opinnion.
tacious says: February 9, 2010 12:36 PM
Saying Terry Bradshaw WON four Superbowls is like saying Tom Brady WON three Superbowls… it’s a load of BS. Both QB’s benefitted from having superb Defenses, as well as all around solid team talent. In Brady’s case, he also benefitted from having one of the best clutch kickers of all time!
—————————————————
I wouldn’t say that they didn’t win, as they were part of their respective teams, but I see your point and fully agree with it. They benefited more from their team and system that Peyton Manning has. Manning has done more with less. I don’t think Brady or Bradshaw would have taken this Colts team to the Super Bowl, let alone win it.
I will have to defend Brady a little here, and say that he is a clutch QB and I think that, combined with his ability to read a defense, these are two areas that he is one of the best at in today’s game. Still, he isn’t even close to being a top tier QB, playoff record be damned.
Sure Otto Graham won more titles but 3 of them were in the AAFC which had what 15 teams? And the rest were in the NFL of the early 50′s. How many teams could have been established then? 10-20?
You can’t compare that to the 32 teams of today and with the salary cap the league is much more balanced.
Titles/playoffs are important but they’re 1/3 of the equation at best. And for all of you handing the crown to Manning at this point…..well everyone thought Tiger Woods would beat all of jack Nicholus’s records by now to. How’s that working out for ya?
moswesley says: February 9, 2010 12:50 PM
The 1980s were dominated by the NFC, minus a few fluke Raider wins.
———————————————–
Fluke Raider wins? Put down the glass pipe buddy. Those were no fluke. The Raiders, despite being a Wild Card team, were a tough team when they beat the Eagles. The year they beat the Redskins, they were one of the best teams in the NFL and proved that they were indeed THE best when they spanked the Skins up and down the field on Black Sunday.
One thing everyone forgets, is that it wasn’t like the entire NFC was “dominant”. They had one or two teams each year that you knew were going spank around the league like little girls and the rest of conference would be average at best. In the AFC there were a lot of good teams, but none of them great, and every year it was a slug fest to get to the big game.
To illustrate vcufan01′s point, just how much turnover have the Colts had? Compare them to the Lions: http://www.boards.edgy-sports.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2477
jrshep389, One thing that sets Manning apart from the other QBs being discussed is that the Colts’success is based solely on his play since 1999, not taking away from his team!!
******
Baloney. You ARE taking away from the team and you’re throwing them under the bus just like Marino’s apologizers did (Which is why Clayton and Duper and several other Dolphins, have never gotten their due). Do you think that he’s as good a passer when he’s got an offensive line like Matthew Stafford? Do you think that he’s doing as well if he were throwing to the Raiders receivers? Let’s not forget that HIS woes in the playoffs are worse than whatever his apologizers want to blame on the defense. In two Super Bowls, he’s had 2 interceptions returned for TDs. Can you name any other QB that’s had it happen to them? Now, I’ve seen some of his apologizers trying to blame that pick on his receiver but it was HIS fault.
People like to point out the time that he spends in the film room but so do guys like Brady and Brees and OTHERS, including his own receivers.
billLumburg, in many respects. the AAFC was the better league than the NFL and the Browns proved it when they went straight to the NFL and kept on winning (BTW, that was 4 AAFC titles for the Browns). Also, the AAFC never had more than 8 teams while the NFL had 10 during those years and given the level of talent in both leagues, you could have put together 32 teams (Really, the BEST talent back then was playing MLB and they played both ways back then and that cut down on roster sizes). 6 straight appearances in the NFL championship game is something that NO OTHER QB did before or since.
@jrshep….. I’ve been a Pats fan since the 80′s and I can honestly say they would not have won 3 Super Bowls without him. If Wayne and Clark aren’t that good then trade us straight up for Sam Aiken and Ben Watson. Go ahead, I’ll wait for you to google them.
All lawyers, both active and retired, should be removed from having access to the public domain. They stir up shit and put reasonable people into insane traversals with no outcomes. There, I said it. LOL (I’m kidding).
There is no official designation for GOAT because it’s stupid on its face. I sit here year after year, hearing people desperately put up their favorites and strain to make the case (a case that cannot be won). If I was pushed on it, my own preference for a QB would be Joe Montana, but not just for his NFL career. Pulling out victories from defeat followed him his whole career (Ringgold High, Notre Dame, 49ers/Chiefs). Does that make him the GOAT? No.
I also saw him lose a game, one which most experts agree is one of the top 3 most historical games in NFL history, in the 1990 NFC championship game against the Giants, when it was all on the line, and that cost the 49ers a chance at a SB 3-peat and immortality. So by Florio’s standards, Montana is shit, too. Imagine that. Every QB who ever played the game is shit according to this bogus standard being mused here.
Imagine what Florio and others would have said after that chance at history went up in smoke…Now, imagine what the significance of what he is saying about Manning has 15 years from now. Hell, I don’t even need years, I can do it in minutes. LOL.
The only QB who even came close to winning them all was Otto Graham (.810 career winning percentage and lots of bling). Everybody else failed on multiple occasions. Perfection is a BS expectation in a game amongst men. Any given Sunday, anybody can win. What part of that do you not understand?
It’s definitely a team game, though, and that includes the coaches. A team wins a championship, not a player (in the 1990 NFC title game, it was Roger Craig’s fumble that actually opened the door for the Giants, but Montana could have sealed the win before he got hurt, and he’s the one who got the blame). I prefer to enjoy them all, and history is full of great QBs who have been a pleasure to watch (and Manning is one of them. So is Brees. So is Brady). GOAT demeans so many great careers and memories.
Think about the year Aaron Rodgers had in Green Bay with that O-line (OMG, did I just throw them under the bus? Damn skippy princess. If you cannot tolerate honest assessment perhaps it’s you who should go play checkers). What he accomplished this year is greater individually than Manning, Brees, or Brady when you consider how much pressure he withstood to do it (hence, it’s a team game. If he had better protection, then what?). I’m not even a Green Bay fan, and I can see that. That kind of pressure usually ends the career of most young QBs. He spent half of the year flat on his back, talking out of his earhole, and the other half burning every defense he saw. But for too many, his year will be lost because somebody else got himself some bling.
I think in many ways, those who are passionate about GOAT, are using it to falsely make themselves a bigger part of the game. They will never be more than a fan or a reporter. However, with GOAT, they can somehow find their way to the center of attention. Sad really, to be an attention whore, when there is all this great football, and history, to enjoy.
Oh well. On to next season….that’s all that matters now, LOL.
Congratulations to the Saints on a great win and great season.
And how many of the stupid people who bash him would not want him as their team’s QB right now?
NightTrainNeckTie says:
February 9, 2010 2:01 PM
Third Tier of greatness! C’mon don’t leave out the greatness part, atleast I put him in the conversation! BTW he’s got an NBA title as well. Pretty badass. Not all of those 7 championships are NFL titles though, in the interest of full disclosure.
Otto Graham, first guy to wear a face mask, first quarterback to throw behind a modern pass protection scheme= the cup. First Quarterback to utilize bootlegs as well and the first quarterback to lead a non-NFL team to an NFL title and the first to appear on Wheaties Box.
_______________________________
I’ll definitely give you props for forming an informed opinion, even if I don’t fully agree with it. I suppose you could argue that the Browns’success in those days was more about Paul Brown than any one player. Still, Graham got the job done more consistently than anyone else, ever. Besides all of that, we need to drag these threads out as long as possible to pass the time during the offseason, right?
Just to illustrate the point about Manning’s lack of personnel turnover, let’s just look at his and Brady’s OC’s and top receivers over the years.
Manning:
1 OC (Tom Moore)
2 WR’s (Harrison, Wayne)
Brady:
3 OC’s (Weis, McDaniels, O’Brien)
6 WR’s (Brown, Branch, Givens, Caldwell, Moss, Welker)
FYI, Branch/Givens/Caldwell haven’t sniffed a good season since leaving NE.
Philtration, I would want Manning as long as I could have Tom Moore as the OC and Reggie Wayne as the #1 WR and Dallas Clark as #1 TE. Asking Manning to step into a new offense with new personnel is like asking Sarah Palin to explain the Bush Doctrine.
@Philtration
Hell yes, I’d want him on my team.
Most of the critics would have bashed him even if the Colts had won. History has a way of filtering all of that out. He will be remembered. His critics won’t.
Same with Brady’s critics. As Brees grows his career further, he will get them on his pod, too. It’s inevitable, as success increases, so do expectations from people with no control over the situation. Those are the ones who bitch the loudest (and know the least).
In an era designed for parity, the only dynasty style team in recent years has been the Pats (and that didn’t last all that long, but was still remarkable given the situation). Even with parity as the objective of the league, most of these critics still seem to want a dynasty, which is increasingly harder to pull off. Parity, as an objective, was done to breathe new life into the expression “On any given Sunday”. Until that changes, we won’t see another 49ers style era for a long time. It’s amazing how all these so called experts don’t even understand how parity works, lol.
For instance, with 29 free agents to deal with, the Saints have a lot of work to do during the off season to keep their success going. This is where parity creeps in. We’ll see what happens. Will they or won’t they break the bank? After handing out 53 rings, economic expectations are also going to rise…
The hero worship has already begun with Brees, and along with it, expectations will rise through the ceiling. If Saints management don’t open the bank and keep their team chemistry going, those expectations will be difficult to meet. Injury is the second way in which a team can be seriously diminished (Colts D was the most injured unit in football this year, so in fairness, it was amazing they got as far as they did). And if the Saints don’t repeat, those who worship heros will blame who for it exactly? And it will be totally misguided if it happens.
But, if “they” do shift their attention onto Brees, that will make it even easier for Manning. Favre will probably see it, too. After the year he had, no reason to walk away now. LOL. Let Brees sit in the hot seat all year next year and see how he likes it…
Colts will be fine next year.
Isray has already signaled he’s prepared to open the bank this offseason.
Loss didn’t hurt Farve or Warner and Elway lost what 3! Kelly & Tarkenton lost 4! If he becoome 4-1, he’ll surpass Montana.
But if the best is determined by wins in title games, Otto Graham won 5 in a row. Joe has 2 in a row.
It’s a popularity contest.
Thumper says:
@Philtration
Hell yes, I’d want him on my team.
Most of the critics would have bashed him even if the Colts had won. History has a way of filtering all of that out. He will be remembered. His critics won’t.
**********************
There’s no doubt in my mind and it will be to the detremint of Manning’s teammates just like it was to the detremint of Marino’s. We’ve already seen it here on various PFT conversations were people have been stupid enough to say that Manning MADE Wayne and Harrison. That same kind of crap has kept people from realizing how great Mark Clayton and Mark Duper were for the Dolphins because everyone says that Marino made them and that’s a load of bull. Manning threw his OL under the bus after Pittsburgh mauled them and he’s slyly did the same thing to his team during the post game conference. Years from now, his apologizers will be throwing all those guys, All-Pro or not, under the bus so that Manning can be declared the greatest of all time. We’ve already seen how some people feel that it’s Wayne’s fault that the pass was intercepted…..
“Manning has done more with less”
This is such BS…..Manning has had the world around him (on offense) for a decade……the consistently best offensive line….suite of wrs/TEs, even kickers………saying Manning has done more with less when the Colts have always paid 80% of their cap to offense is absurd.
Here is the legacy………..
Playoffs records….
Montana – 16-7
Brady – 14-4
Elway – 14-8
Favre – 13-11
Warner – 9-4
Big Ben – 8-2
Manning – 9-9……this pretty much says it all
The question of which QB is the best of all time is moot. Each QB played at a different place and time, under different playing conditions, with different equipment. And, many played under differing rules. So, it is impossible to compare them. It’s like comparing Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus and Ben Hogan, for instance. They set their records at different times, on different courses using different clubs. There can be no comparison. That is, unless each athlete played under the same circumstances, using the same equipment and at the same time. End of debate.
For the record, Manning made his name and fame playing in the Colt’s stadium, under a dome and on turf. Put him in the Patriots’Stadium where Brady plays or any other outdoor field and he is an average QB at best.
@edgy1957
Sorry Edgy. Had a response for you, but got shot down by our friendly local censors and am crashing into the treetops as we speak, LOL.
Let’s just say, I strongly disagree with your implication that Manning needs to be run out of the game, and have some issues with your Dolphins assessment, and parallels to the Colts situation.
Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion and I need to refrain from expressing mine.
Have a good one.
(I still think GOAT discussions are pointless. HAHAHAHA. Two planes crashed in one day)
Thumper says:
Let’s just say, I strongly disagree with your implication that Manning needs to be run out of the game, and have some issues with your Dolphins assessment, and parallels to the Colts situation.
***************
WHAT in the hell are you talking about? Where did I say that Manning needs to be run out of the game? I said that his apologizers will blame everyone but him for anything bad that happens with the team. Oh and you have issues with my Dolphins assessment – please, look up Mark Clayton and Mark Duper (Don’t use the links that you see here because it’s to the NEW Mark Clayton). Duper has the stronger argument but if both had played on different teams, they’d have been the unquestioned #1 target and would have put up better overall numbers. Because they’ve been thrown under the bus with the rest of their teammates, they’re never going to get any serious consideration.
These tpe of conversations are very similar to the BCS/College #1 conversations. They are impossible to win.
Everyone has their opinion, some put some good info to back it up. Some allow their bias to control their “opinion”.
I personally think alot of the “greatest ever” comments for Manning must be coming from the younger crowd that just didnt watch much football in the 70′s or 80′s.
Manning is certainly great. He’s no greatest ever though. The guys that think Manning would’ve tore it up on the Montana Steelers, or the Bradshaw Steelers. Hell, even the Staubach Cowboys. …. You ever wonder why these guys only played an average of 10yrs…? Do you really think Favre could’ve had a shot at a 20yr career in the 70′s or 80′s…?
Manning is great, quite possibly the smartest ever (i think it was Montana), but he has the luxury of playing in a league that protects him. He has the luxury of VERY offense oriented game. He would not have the protection from guys like LT, Lambert, White, etc.. that he has today. Butkis would’ve smashed Manning, then spit in his face. Deacon Jones would’ve personally have taken 2-3yrs off of Mannings career.
Bart Starr, Otto Graham… those guys were before my time. I have seen alot of footage of em though, they were great..!! I did however, watch ALOT of football from the mid 70′s-present. The problem with alot of opinions here is that too many guys, arent respecting the changes that have provided the opprotunity for guys like Manning to flourish with a long career. Too many of you guys, have no respect for the past….
The only place where Manning is the Greatest QB ever……. Fantasy Football.
Manning will win at least one more, and the only thing that will prevent him from being the greatest QB of all time will be if Brady wins more, too.
Trent Dilfer is 1-0 in Super Bowls, that must mean Florio thinks he is a better QB than Manning.
Comparing Manning to Bradshaw is like comparing a Ferrari Scuderia to a VW Bus.
MANNING AND BRADY ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE GUYS AROUND THEM JUST AS IT WAS WITH MONTANA.YOU CAN THROW THE MOST ACCURATE PASS BUT WHAT GOOD IS IT IF YOUR RECEIVER DOESN’T CATCH IT OR YOUR LINEMAN ARE GETTING BLOWN OUT AND YOU HAVE NOWHERE TO GO.I NEVER LIKED THE ONE MAN FACTOR IN DECIDING THE QUALITY OF ANY PLAYER, LET ALONE THE QB.LOOK AT THE PERSONEL AROUND THESE QUARTERBACKS AND THERE COACHES AND THEN YOU BE THE JUDGE. JOE CAPRIO
Let me say this, I don’t care how good or how bad Manning is as a quarterback. Why not bring up his unsportsmanship AFTER the game? He walked off the field and did not shake anyone’s hand. WTF is that? A poor sport is what that is. I was for the Saints, but I will never be for the Colts in any game, no matter who they play. Manning just showed that he was a spoiled cry baby! I hope his dad, Archie, if even secretly, was happy the Saints won! WHO DAT?
DAT is who kicked the Colts ass!
Another Manning thread and more pure ignorance by golongboyee…………
I do feel sorry for you because they can’t fix stupid.
Another Manning thread and more pure ignorance by golongboyee…………
I do feel sorry for you because they can’t fix stupid.
Love the colts apologists… “manning is better then brady because he has a more well rounded team” blah blah blah.. Yeah all while totally ignoring the fact manning is inside domes most of the time while bradys dealing w/new england weather. Switch locations manning would be very average, as he’s proven every time he’s been in boston, sometimes bordering on totally incompetent.