Comments on: Pereira says emphasis on illegal contact "didn't seem logical"

By: Dr. Steve

Dr. Steve — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:54:56 +0000

Bill Polian got the rule changed after the Peyton Manning bitterly complained that the Patriots were holding up his receivers. That was just one of the rules the Competition Committee changed to favor Manning. That’s why, the NFL Rule Book for the following season had Manning’s picture on it, I believe.
And sports writiers call Manning the greatest QB ever. Not! He’s made his name playing on turf in a domed stadium with the rules changed to protect him and his receivers. Peyton is the greatest flag football QB ever, but just average on grass in an open stadium under the old rules, in my opinion.

By: TJO5

TJO5 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:44:44 +0000

# Sourdough says: February 11, 2010 11:14 AM
Why are the only Colts haters Patri*ts fans!?!
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Might have been BC the Colts and Peyton Manning were challenging Tom Brady and the Patriots as the greatest team of the decade- but you don’t really have to worry about that any more.
Congrats Saints.

By: Larry30

Larry30 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:58:05 +0000

The Colts had seven come from behind wins this season, half of which could not have occurred without the timely aid of one or more PIs… most of which were controversial if not flat out incorrect.
So, they would have had 3.5 comeback wins without the timely PI calls…damn, they could have been the first 12.5 win team since the ’72 dolph…oh wait, nevermind

By: The Real Shuxion

The Real Shuxion — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:50:08 +0000

CaptainFantastik says: February 11, 2010 10:03 AM
You don’t know that they weren’t used in the same game. Games are won or lost in the 4th quarter.
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If you really think that it can all be deciphered in that amount of time, then I guess you also think 9-11 is an inside job.
Shouldn’t you be teaching youth football players the Steeler way by injecting them with horse testosterone?

By: The Real Shuxion

The Real Shuxion — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:46:06 +0000

# CaptainFantastik says: February 11, 2010 9:56 AM
Let me say this: Bill Polian’s gerrymandering of NFL rules to suit the Colts is a much more destructive to the league, and far more disgraceful than a team employee filming coaching signals *from an illegal location*, signals which are visible to 70,000 people and which provide no competitive advantage.
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LOL at Pats fans still trying to minimize their team’s cheating. Since all you guys love to talk about what a “genius” Belichick is, tell me this…………if there was no competitive advantage then why did Belichick bother with it for over 6 years? Hmmmmm? Yep, that’s what I thought. If Belichick saw no advantage he wouldn’t have bothered. He obviously did see an advantage.
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This is coming from a fan of a team whos legacy is built on roids. The cesspool spews once again.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:36:44 +0000

“1-baskett is a pass receiver and his job being up there is to catch the ball – why they call it the hands team. but that has nothing to do with lombardi telling the refs he would onside kick to the left!”
…That wasn’t the hands team. The hands team only takes the field when it’s an expected onside kick. Baskett is a STer who is also a WR so he plays on STs.
“2- i sarcastically said theyd find a way to throw a flag for any possible penalty against the colts to make sure lombardis play that they were asked to watch for them succeeded.”
Good thing the Saints didn’t need this supposed flag then. Or did they not actually recover the ball and it just magically appeared in Chris Reis’ hand?
Some of you Colts fans are getting to be as bad as Vikings fans. You lost. Deal with it.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:35:49 +0000

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:54 +0000

1-Baskett was hit by a Saint (Johnathan Casillas IIRC) and he was going to the ground when the ball got to him.
2-How could the Colts be offsides when the ball is being kicked to them and after the ball was kicked? And what late hit would they call?
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1-baskett is a pass receiver and his job being up there is to catch the ball – why they call it the hands team. but that has nothing to do with lombardi telling the refs he would onside kick to the left!
2- i sarcastically said theyd find a way to throw a flag for any possible penalty against the colts to make sure lombardis play that they were asked to watch for them succeeded.

By: tigerlilac

tigerlilac — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:50:05 +0000

dashoe says:
February 11, 2010 10:08 AM
Florio, do yourself and your readers a service and go back and watch that Colts Pats game. You’ll see that the Pats were blatantly, holding, grabbing and even tackling the Colts WR’s while the ball was in the air and before . . . It was a blatant violation of the rules and needed to be addressed, especially since that kind of contact wasn’t allowed all year.
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Sorry, but the penalty distribution in the game you reference was 3 penalties agaisnt the Colts for 20 yards and 4 against the Patriots for 72 yards. The facts don’t fit your argument.
For all of the Belichick haters: Polian used his position on the Competition Committee (which gave directives to Pereira, the National Football League’s Vice President of Officiating) to gain a competitive advantage for his team with the specific aim of obtaining a competitive advantage over the Patriots that had continued success against his team.
Why did the owners go along? Because they didn’t want one team dominating the competition. That’s not good for business. Belichick was too good so they rigged the rules. They came right out and admitted that fact.
Now, in 2010, for similar reasons, the NFL chose to strip the Colts of the competive advantage they enjoyed for several years but took away in Super Bowl 44.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:48:38 +0000

“you mean he thought if they were out of position they would say colts got the ball not the saints?”
They could’ve not been in proper position that led to an incorrect call, whether it be possession or a penalty.
“even that- it took them all kinds of time and with mixed signals being given by the players of each and conviently no closeup was shown to the fans on who really had it.”
How is this different than EVERY OTHER onside kick? And Chris Reis came out of the pile with the ball. He happened to be the guy who went down with it.
“and besides the ball was kicked right into the hands team hands or baskett and the pass catcher blew it. i wonder if then a penalty flag would have been thrown on colts for a late hit or offsides? thats the reason payton was telling them “to the left”!”
The hands team was on the field for what they thought was a normal kickoff?
Baskett was hit by a Saint (Johnathan Casillas IIRC) and he was going to the ground when the ball got to him.
How could the Colts be offsides when the ball is being kicked to them and after the ball was kicked? And what late hit would they call?
May I interest you in a tinfoil hat? Nevermind, I see you already have one. Carry on.

By: cutler_eats_it

cutler_eats_it — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:21:11 +0000

Bob S.
So Bob… What’s your opinion of the spot on “the 4 & 2″. Did NE get the right spot? Becareful now…your entire credibility is riding on your answer.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:19:50 +0000

“I guess according to the announcer’s eyes! And mine too btw.”
…So? Watch a game with any group and you’ll hear people say they saw many different things. Just because you swear by it doesn’t mean it’s true.
“firstly hart was NOT completely stuffed. he gained about 10 inches which would have been enough if properly spotted in the first place, however you’re right and i’ve seen manning successfully on many occasions quarterback sneak it when its only about a half yard or less to go. but this spot made it OVER a yard and a quarter to go – a helluva difference.”
Good to know you can properly spot a football from a TV camera when the runner goes up the middle. And not only that, but determine how many inches a RB gained. Last I checked, the camera angles weren’t lined up with the LOS or 1st-down marker. Not only that, but it’s where the ball is the moment the knee hits. Just because a RB extends his arms after he’s down doesn’t mean that’s the spot.
“how could a ball that CLEARLY was closer to the 11 yard line and to that yellow unofficial first down line than to the 10 yardline, end up spotted touching the 10 yardline and upstairs not even bothering to review such a key play in such an important game.”
That should answer your question for you.
“he only told it to one ref. who obviously would then tell to another and to another until all there refs heard, maybe when one ref was telling another one some colt could possibly overhear it or maybe one of those other refs had a friend on the colts and told him, “they are going to try an onside kick on you”.
sorry i just dont think vince lombardi , chuck noll and others would divulge their secrets and their trick plays to the refs except for some other reason!”
And none of them ever tried an onside kick before the 4th quarter in the Super Bowl. What’s your point? What one coach does makes no difference to what another does.
“as for the refs why did they not throw a flag when manning he was blocked and pushed with 2 hands right on his back and numbers during the interception?”
Because Will Smith pushes him in the right shoulder first. It’s only an illegal block in the back “when an offensive player blocks a defender from behind.” Peyton wasn’t blocked from behind until he ran past the play. But he was first blocked from the side, which is not illegal.
“or how was the spot so off?”
According to you and one announcer.
“or on the 2 point catch which had not been completed when it was knocked out. the rules clearly state it is ONLY a completion if a receiver going to the ground maintains control. he never got to the point where it would have been called a completion – because the ball was on the ground.”
He had control and crossed the goalline. That is all that is needed for a TD or 2PC to be good. Once he established possession and crossed the line, the play is over. Otherwise anytime someone scored a TD they’d lose possession whenever they released the ball.

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:44:49 +0000

nps6724 says:
Situational awareness.
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you mean he thought if they were out of position they would say colts got the ball not the saints?
even that- it took them all kinds of time and with mixed signals being given by the players of each and conviently no closeup was shown to the fans on who really had it.
and besides the ball was kicked right into the hands team hands or baskett and the pass catcher blew it. i wonder if then a penalty flag would have been thrown on colts for a late hit or offsides? thats the reason payton was telling them “to the left”!

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:36:38 +0000

nps6724 says:
“Oh so they didn’t realize that they had to determine possession on onside kickoffs?”
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If they aren’t expecting an onside kick, they may be out of position like the Colts’ blockers were. Letting the refs know an onside kick is coming allows them to make sure they’re in position.
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he only told it to one ref. who obviously would then tell to another and to another until all there refs heard, maybe when one ref was telling another one some colt could possibly overhear it or maybe one of those other refs had a friend on the colts and told him, “they are going to try an onside kick on you”.
sorry i just dont think vince lombardi , chuck noll and others would divulge their secrets and their trick plays to the refs except for some other reason!
as for the refs why did they not throw a flag when manning he was blocked and pushed with 2 hands right on his back and numbers during the interception?
or how was the spot so off?
or on the 2 point catch which had not been completed when it was knocked out. the rules clearly state it is ONLY a completion if a receiver going to the ground maintains control. he never got to the point where it would have been called a completion – because the ball was on the ground.

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:11:47 +0000

nps6724 says:
“in that specific case he was right about how short of a first down Addai was”
According to…?
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I guess according to the announcer’s eyes! And mine too btw.
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“Even if it was slightly short, Hart was completely stuffed on the next play and lost more than he gained. Your only argument is that Caldwell would’ve called a QB sneak but that’s purely speculative.”
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firstly hart was NOT completely stuffed. he gained about 10 inches which would have been enough if properly spotted in the first place, however you’re right and i’ve seen manning successfully on many occasions quarterback sneak it when its only about a half yard or less to go. but this spot made it OVER a yard and a quarter to go – a helluva difference.
how could a ball that CLEARLY was closer to the 11 yard line and to that yellow unofficial first down line than to the 10 yardline, end up spotted touching the 10 yardline and upstairs not even bothering to review such a key play in such an important game.

By: Treadstone

Treadstone — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:03:10 +0000

Dashoe, Perhaps Goodell destroyed the evidence because it showed that many other teams in the league were doing the same thing. IF so, that really didn’t need to be made public, thus hurting the golden goose. It’s a lot better for the league to have a Yankees style team that was busted than having 10 Yankee style teams that were busted.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:26:27 +0000

“Oh so they didn’t realize that they had to determine possession on onside kickoffs?”
If they aren’t expecting an onside kick, they may be out of position like the Colts’ blockers were. Letting the refs know an onside kick is coming allows them to make sure they’re in position.
It makes perfect sense, really. If the ref expects a typical kickoff, he may bail and start running down the sideline like the front of the Colts’ line did. Knowing it’ll be an onside kick allows him to get in perfect position for the call. Situational awareness.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:51 +0000

“in that specific case he was right about how short of a first down Addai was”
According to…?
Even if it was slightly short, Hart was completely stuffed on the next play and lost more than he gained. Your only argument is that Caldwell would’ve called a QB sneak but that’s purely speculative.

By: TJO5

TJO5 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:15:26 +0000

# Reasonable says: February 11, 2010 8:36 AM
TJO5
LOL. I didn’t see any personal fouls. Just a whinney baby.
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Very true. Whoever made that video was a first class whiner. Maybe if the Rams defense played as intensely they would have done better.
Seems like some teams actually believe the media hype about how great they are and think they don’t have to show up for the big game.

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:08:13 +0000

PirateFreedom says:
This is a foolish complaint:
#2- Why on earth did Payton discuss with the refs the short onside kickoff “just to the left”? is that how it now works? you prepare the refs for the play you are going to run so they are prepared to make sure they don’t call any penalties against your team? this is absolutely absurd that the ref knows your plays.
The refs knowing they would be called on to determine possession would only help them avoid mistakes.
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That’s a foolish answer:
Oh so they didn’t realize that they had to determine possession on onside kickoffs?

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:03:44 +0000

Reasonable says:
To Bob S. I feel retarded that I even bothered to look at the 52 second complaint, but I did. Your just simply wrong on that one. The ball was not spotted then moved. It was just spotted about a half a football length short. It’s very arguable where it should have been spotted anyway. (Many players from both teams are between Addi and the official.)
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I never said it was spotted then moved. They cut to commercial before it was spotted. What you do see is the ball is within inches of the yellow first down unofficial line which is about a football length past the 11 yard line and in Addai’s hands. When they cut back from the commercial the ball was back ABOUT A FULL YARD touching the 10 yardline. You even are obviously saying refs’ views were blocked but the pan shot from this side was NOT and replay officials upstairs did NOTHING as opposed what they are supposed to do in the final 2 minutes of a half or game.
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nps6724 says:
Because the announcers are always right?
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in that specific case he was right about how short of a first down Addai was

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:17:44 +0000

“Pereira has always been a useless company man. If he spoke out about this, he broke a trust and proves my point.”
A “company man” is one who sticks to the company line. How is speaking out about this being a “company man”?

By: Devils Advocate

Devils Advocate — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:16:14 +0000

Cowboy22 says:
February 11, 2010 10:13 AM
Anyone who has any complaints about that rule did not watch the play-off game between the Pats and Colts that stirred this whole deal up.
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hey cowboy22, yeah and it used to be called the NFL. now it’s the PFL – pussy football league. your kind of game i guess?

By: Sourdough

Sourdough — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0000

Why are the only Colts haters Patri*ts fans!?!

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:14:32 +0000

A lot of Manning’s apologizers talk about how he would go to the ’70s Steelers and do as well as Bradshaw but they don’t seem to realize that the rules were different and if he was disturbed by the touching of his receivers NOW, he’d have been a nervous wreck at how they could have been manhandled then and throw in the fact that the offensive line had to get their hands in and couldn’t extend them like they do today. Also, since they would end up giving more sacks back then don’t you think that the OL would have taken care of Manning in their own way if he were to throw his linemen under the bus like he did the mauling by the Steelers? Manning also would have found his way to the bench if he tried to audible out of a run when Noll called for it.

By: TheBigOldDog

TheBigOldDog — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:10:01 +0000

All other issues aside, the makeup of the Competition Committee should change frequently. In other words, they should have term limits

By: Filbertkiwi71

Filbertkiwi71 — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:49:49 +0000

Reading some of the Patriot fans responses here is comical.
No matter what Polian may have done, that does not let the Pats off the hook for Spygate. You don’t just compare the two and say that what Polian may have done is worse than what happened with Spygate.
Really, if you are going to go down that road, then you can just about justify any behavior by anyone by saying:” Yeah, I know what this person did, but it is no where near as bad as what that person did”.

By: Commish

Commish — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:45:01 +0000

Hayward is right on:
Especially with the spygate thing. Its funny how the Pat staff was “cheating” since signals can be seen from all over.
It’s like saying that you’re dating a girl but if you check out another girl walking down the street its cheating. maybe it isn’t what your supposed to do, but your not compromising the play now are you?
Polian definitely used his power unethically. However, because everyone now plays by the same rules its justified. But it does speak to his character.

By: 6250claimer

6250claimer — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:44:50 +0000

Screw’em, bring back the good ole days. I want Night Train Lane and Jack “The Assassin” Tatum at corner, and Ronnie Lott and Larry Wilson at safety. And Deacon Jones on the line, for good measure. Just decrapitate all of ‘em, the refs won’t have enough flags.

By: Bill Cowher's Chin

Bill Cowher's Chin — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:42:19 +0000

Can we move on from filming of coaches signals. CHRIST, let it go!!!!!!
Was it illegal to tape signals? NO
Was it illegal to tape signals from the sideline? YES
Would BB do it just to do it? NO
Was that the only reason they won? NO
Is it worse than changing the rules? NO
Is it worse than violating the salary cap? NO
Is it worse than pumping in crowd noise? NO
Obviously Belichick gained something from it, but the advantage gained wasnt more or less valuable than watching the game tapes that Tracy Porter watched, that enabled him to pick6 Manning’s pass.
Yes the Pats were punished, yes they violated the rules, but no one really knows just how much of an advantage it was. It is simply an opinion on each side of the argument. If you hate the Pats, you pretend that taping signals (a legal act) from the sideline (against the rules) was the end all be all of cheating. That it was the same as bribing officials, etc. It obviously violates the spirit of “fair competition” but let it go. And those that support the Pats, think it was no big deal. Again, no one really knows. Many coaches have come out and said it provided no advantage so they simply didnt waste time doing it (Jimmie Johnson). As a NASCAR fan, I have an appreciation for some one trying to push the rule book, to gain an advantage. If you think your team isnt trying to gain an advantage over the competition, you are a complete fool. I hate Polian, and I hate the “focus on illegal contact”, but I can appreciate the fact that he did everything he could, to give his team an advantage…….
Its over and done with, they were caught, they were punished, and in America, after you serve your “time”, its done with. Agreeing with the “sentence” doesnt matter…..
The people that continue to hang on, and harp on taping signals are almost pathetic, and then, they will harp on Florio for “beating a dead horse” when Florio writes over and over about something negative about your team……