Comments on: JaMarcus Russell could go down as biggest draft bust ever

By: jimicos

jimicos — Tue, 04 May 2010 14:22:16 +0000

I’ll be sure to check that out.
/sarcasm

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Sat, 01 May 2010 16:21:57 +0000

My list for the biggest busts: http://www.boards.edgy-sports.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2586&start=0

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:19:10 +0000

jimicos says:
That sure is an easy position to take, isn’t it?
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I don’t give a sh*t about JaMarcus Russell. Hell, I don’t give a sh*t about the Raiders. You’re going nutso over a non-issue. Hell, I actually like Vince Young more than Russell and YET, I can’t stand here and try to make a case that what you consider his two worst receivers are even in the same ball park. When the worst that you can say is that it cost one QB, Young, a little over 1% and the other, a little over 3%, it’s obvious that those two guys didn’t screw up as badly as those two. Even as bad as Roy Williams was, he only cost Romo 3% off his completion pct.
BTW, BG, only completed 54% of his passes and wait for it – his best two games came AFTER DHB was gone for good. Is that a coincidence or is it not hitting bedrock that he is the worst WR taken last year and decades before and to come.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:38:18 +0000

edgy1957 says:
April 30, 2010 2:59 PM
Again, it’s NOT about Russell. Seriously, when two rookie WRs cause their starters to gain between 5-11 points on their completion percentage without them in the lineup, it’s NOT about the QBs.
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That sure is an easy position to take, isn’t it? Next year when JaMarcus is an ex-Raider and those same guys are putting up better numbers you can always claim it’s because they’re not rookies and JaMarcus didn’t get a fair shake…. Although he did shake a fair deal when on the field.
I’m not going to argue this point any more. I think I’ve shown how a 6th round journeyman QB made Russell look silly. And since you’re clinging to the rookie WR argument you can’t be proven wrong.

By: this class sucks

this class sucks — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:00:08 +0000

Leaf is worse, yahoo did a good article on it comparing the stats its not even close.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:59:50 +0000

jimicos says:
There’s clearly lots of variables, but you’re trying to make this turd look decent when the numbers simply don’t support it
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Again, it’s NOT about Russell. Seriously, when two rookie WRs cause their starters to gain between 5-11 points on their completion percentage without them in the lineup, it’s NOT about the QBs.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:26:38 +0000

jimicos says:
We’re still talking about a third year guy who was the #1 overall pick. And we’re comparing him to a journeyman QB drafted in the 6th round
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I guess that Drew Bledsoe was a piece of sh*t because he lost his job to a 6th round pick — right?
Look, BG has a rabbit’s foot that works because he was a no body who lucked into his first start because Simms was hurt and then that a 7th round journeyman, Tim Rattay, took the job and then they brought in Jeff Garcia to take over and he was gone. BG actually took an 11-5 team to 3-8 so it’s not like he was taking over a crappy squad.
Hell, if you look at their careers after 3 seasons, BG isn’t going to be winning any beauty contests over JR and his supporters can fantasize all they want but Campbell would have beaten him out easily for the starting job. Even after his 2-2 record, BG’s 5-11 as a career starter. After his first 16 starts, JR was 5-11.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:15:44 +0000

There’s clearly lots of variables, but you’re trying to make this turd look decent when the numbers simply don’t support it. His career passer rating (which is much higher than his abyssmal 2009 rating) is still 10 points lower than David Carr’s career passer rating. And Tim Couch’s. Kyle Orton looks like Joe Montana next to this colossal waste of blubber.
The man has 31 NFL starts and only 18 passing TDs to his name. Terrible. I guarantee you the Raiders could plug in an average QB, make no other changes to the system or personnel and they’d get more than 18 TDs in one season.
JaMarcus Russell is a burning bag of poop on your doorstep and you’re complaining about the type of lighter than was used to set the thing on fire. He’s not the only problem in Oakland. We can agree on that. But he’s the single biggest problem.. Other than crazy Al.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:54:38 +0000

jimicos says:
Sure, but the 26 catches stemming from Russell’s 9 starts also included some passes thrown by Gradkowski. I did not bother to track down the leftovers. So Russell’s 26 was probably inflated by a few Gradkowski passes and if you’re correct Gradkowski’s 20 was inflated by 2 Frye passes
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JR – 18 catches – BG – 7. Schilens didn’t come back until his last start and he was 3 of 4 with him going 2 of 3 with JR. Until then it was 8 wretched starts with DHB and LM. But then again, why CS made it into the convrsation is beyond me. The whole point is how the rookies screwed everyone. In fact, adding in CS, actually proves the point because everyone saw a benefit to him being in the lineup.
It’s an absurdity for you or anyone else to throw CS into this conversatin because you KNOW that he was only there for the last 8 games so his stats skew toward the others, just as DHB’s absence actually helped BG and CF for the last 4 games. Hell, in the game that doesn’t count by your standards, BG threw 2 interceptions and one of them was headed for DHB.
But, again, this isn’t about JR or BG or CF but two worst rookies WR last year. LM has redeeming qualities and like CS, he should be an asset this year but DHB needs to improve a lot to be considered anything less than the crappiest WR taken in the past 10 years and I’m considering all rounds.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:56:36 +0000

BTW, kudos to admitting you were wrong on the stats. Most of the d-bags on this site would refuse to accept it and instead throw insults.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:55:47 +0000

edgy1957 says:
April 30, 2010 12:35 PM
BTW, I amend my mea culpa. The 20 catches were for all QBs. Broken down, it’s 18 with BG and 2 with JR.
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Sure, but the 26 catches stemming from Russell’s 9 starts also included some passes thrown by Gradkowski. I did not bother to track down the leftovers. So Russell’s 26 was probably inflated by a few Gradkowski passes and if you’re correct Gradkowski’s 20 was inflated by 2 Frye passes.
OK, I just checked.. Yes, Russell’s numbers were inflated by 2 Gradkowski passes. So the real numbers are this:
Russell – 9 starts, 24 complete passes to those 3 WRs
Gradkowski – 4 starts (plus one quarter), 20 complete passes to those 3 WRs
That makes it look even worse.
We’re still talking about a third year guy who was the #1 overall pick. And we’re comparing him to a journeyman QB drafted in the 6th round. And the comparison is not kind to the #1 overall. He’s certainly in the discussion of biggest busts ever.
Now like Mandarich, maybe he’ll redeem himself and become serviceable for some team in the future. I don’t see it, but it could happen.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:35:28 +0000

1NationRaiderNation says:
Gradkowski started 4 games, 11/22 through
12/13. Here are their stats for those four games:
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BTW, I amend my mea culpa. The 20 catches were for all QBs. Broken down, it’s 18 with BG and 2 with JR.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:25:23 +0000

1NationRaiderNation says:
Gradkowski started 4 games, 11/22 through
12/13. Here are their stats for those four games:
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Mea Culpa, I was one game off on Gradkowski but it’s still only one game for Schilens and Russell. Russell was really comfortable with Schilens by the end of 2008 when he was 7 of 11 for 102 and 2 tD in the last 3 games (and it’s no coincidence that his top target, once he got into the lineup, was Schilens at 10 of 13). Schilens, like Murphy, sucked at the beginning (8 of 21) but came on at the end of his – wait for it – rookie season.
This says even more:
Russell – 9 starts – 9 DHB
RG & CF – 7 starts – 2 DHB
All the Raiders QBs took hits from the rookies (Frye, the least). Besides Russell, the Raidrs BIGGEST problem was havng TWO rookie WRs in the lineup. Let’s not forget 2008 when they had a hard time keeping any WR in the line up and their two “best” WRs at the end of the year were a rookie and a second year guy.

By: HamBurghlar

HamBurghlar — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:07:42 +0000

Lol… COULD go down? You mean, WILL go down.
Where’s the douche that ends his posts with
“‘Nation!”

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By: jimicos

jimicos — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:11:16 +0000

“those 3 only caught 12 passes when Gradkowski was a starter or 3 per game”
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Gradkowski started 4 games, 11/22 through 12/13. Here are their stats for those four games:
11/22:
Schillens – 2 for 41
Murphy – 1 for 29
DH-B – 1 for 7
11/29:
Schillens – 2 for 32
Murphy – 2 for 22
DH-B – 2 for 21
12/6:
Schillens – 3 for 45
Murphy – 4 for 128
DH-B – 0 for 0
12/13:
Schillens – 2 for 20
Murphy – 1 for 8
DH-B – 0 for 0
That’s 20 receptions, for the mathematically-challenged. And it’s 353 yards. Surprise, surprise, surprise. That’s what I said yesterday. If you want to prove their numbers were any different, please provide your source. I got my numbers from pro-football-reference.com. If you’re going to accept my numbers, feel free to backtrack on your idiotic 12 passes statement. 20 is not 12.
And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe DH-B or Murphy are worth anything. They suck out loud. Schillens has shown flashes but if he continues to have Russell bouncing passes to him, like Vick to Roddy White, his career will never take off.
This says a lot, too.
Russell – 9 starts, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 50.0 passer rating
Gradkowski – 4 starts, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 80.6 passer rating

By: 1NationRaiderNation

1NationRaiderNation — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:05:45 +0000

J-Russ will be the #1 reason why there will be no NFL in 2011, along with the 5 billion guaranteed reasons the owners have.
Rookie salary cap is a must

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:17:53 +0000

jimicos says:
My point was that Nate Washington and Justin Gage are NOT that much better than DH-B and Murphy
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Seriously, you’re trying to make that argument? Trust me, DHB is and WAS the worst WR in the entire league. His numbers look as good as they do becauise he had 2 “good” games – a 2 rec game with Russell and a 2 rec game with Gradkowski. He was 2-10 before his final game with Gradkowski so it’s not like Bruce was doing any better with him. DHB just plain STUNK and the same could be said of Murphy for most of the year. His best work came after Gradkowski went down so are you saying that Frye should be starting instead?
BTW, you are so far off on this that’s it’s hilarious. Schilens DID NOT take part in Russell’s 9 starts – he only took part in Russell’s last start and then Russell went to him during the rest of the year when he was put in as an injury replacement for Gradkowski and Frye. If you want to be correct (and I know that you don’t) those 3 only caught 12 passes when Gradkowski was a starter or 3 per game and with DHB out of the picture, Russell’s comp % went up to 58.5% for the rest of the season. Again, this is NOT about one QB but 2 WRs. They both brought down the team but at least Murphy improved by the end of the year. I actually believe that he will be one of their better receivers this year and that if they can stay heatlhy AND keep DHB off the field, they’ll see a big improvement.
People don’t take into account the Raiders receiving situation to understand how sad it has been for the past two years. Jerry Porter wasn’t a great receiver but he was a HOFer (43% comp %) compared to DHB. It Davis would have fallen asleep and they had drafted Crabtree instead of DHB, it would have been a much better year for everyone last year and in the future but that didn’t happen and if he doesn’t make progress and Davis pushes to keep him on the field everyone will suffer.
Just like you believe that I’m dissking Young, you also seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is all about Russell when in fact, it’s about the rookies that all the QBs had to put up with. NO ROOKIE WR in this year’s class peformed as badly as both of them did when compared to the round they were drafted. Davis has been trying to recreate the ’60s and that just isn’t going to happen.

By: The Real Shuxion

The Real Shuxion — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:16:02 +0000

ItalianArmyGuy says: April 27, 2010 7:07 PM
Could there be a bigger bust than former #1 Michael Vick? Talk about blowing up a franchise. Funny to read what ESPN said about him in April, 2003:
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Vick took them to an NFC Championship game…….geez you steeler fans get dumber by the day.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:40:50 +0000

edgy1957 says:
April 28, 2010 5:31 PM
I’d say “You’re, kidding, right?” but I know that you’re serious and that’s SAD.
Michael Crabtree went to Frisco with NO training camp and still managed to catch 56% of the passes thrown his way. In fact, during 4 two game stretches, he caught more passes than DHB did for the entire season. There’s no way in hell that you can equate how badly those two rookies did to anyone else. DHB’s comp % was 22.5% while Murphy’s was 35.4%. How did the other top drafted rookies do? Harvin, 67%, Maclin, 61%, Nicks, 64%, Britt, 56%, Robiskie, 35%, and Massoquoi, 36%. That’s only the first 2 rounds. You start going down into the third and fourth round and you find that many of the guys that were picked around Murphy, outperformed him by a wide margin as well.
As for “massaging” the numbers, I didn’t. You must be under some mistaken impression that I’m dissing Young but I’m NOT. What I’m doing is talking about how crappy those two WRs were and how they affected all the QBs but apparently, your hatred of Russell won’t allow you to see past that bias. I was talking about ONE YEAR and not their entire career but if you want to play the game: last year it was Washington, 49% and Gage, 42%. I really don’t believe that either did as much harm to Vince’s percentages as DHB and Murphy did. A quick check shows that Collins sans those two saw his percentage go from 55.1 to 58.1 while Young saw his go from 58.7 to 60.4. Collins actually benefits even more than Young but neither benefits as much as the Raiders QBs.
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My point was that Nate Washington and Justin Gage are NOT that much better than DH-B and Murphy.
I can’t attest to the passes Russell throws because, frankly, the Raiders are unworthy of television outside of a 50 mile radius. But I don’t think there’s any coincidence that the receiving stats from the Raiders’ top three wide receivers went up when Gradkowski went in and Russell sat down.
Receiving stats of DH-B, Murphy and Schillens in Russell’s 9 starts: 26 catches, 384 yards, 14.8 yards per catch, 2.9 catches per game.
Receiving stats of DH-B, Murphy and Schillens in Gradkowski’s 4 starts: 20 catches, 353 yards, 17.7 yards per catch, 5 catches per game.
Make no mistake, I don’t mean to say that DH-B and Murphy are competent NFL wide receivers. I don’t think they are. But I also don’t hold the laughable belief that Russell is going to thrive, even as a backup, anywhere else. This is not a case of the receivers making the QB look bad. This is a case of the receivers and the QB being bad. In Russell’s case, very bad.
And I’m not on the Vince Young bandwagon either. I think he’s pretty terrible. He’s at least shown the desire to improve. And his legs bring a different threat to the field-something Mayor McCheese can’t.

By: jimicos

jimicos — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:15:55 +0000

edgy1957 says:
April 28, 2010 9:48 PM
What’s the matter, jimicos, stat got your tongue?
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No, idiot. I usually don’t login from home. I have a family and other responsibilities. But nice job thinking you’re that important.

By: botchedextrapoint

botchedextrapoint — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:10:41 +0000

For all the people comparing stats it is those “who the hell was that thrown to?’ passes that make JaMarcus a bust

By: Playoffs?!

Playoffs?! — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:45:40 +0000

@ Trips Right, 68 Slant
You include me with those who had mock drafts…I SURE AS HELL DID NOT! Tell that to the ESPN ‘experts’…lol Even you gotta admit that ‘hosting’ the playoffs is HUGE stretch. Don’t get carried away because you guys actually had somewhat of a decent draft this year…

By: GrimDog

GrimDog — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:39:12 +0000

As the Part-time Guru said “No matter if JaHamburger never sets foot on a field again he won’t be as big of a bust as Ryan Leaf. Leaf stands alone atop the pantheon of sports busts because he not only sucked he was also the consummate poison for the Chargers. I’ve never seen another quarterback not get high-fived by his teammates after a TD pass. Leaf fought with everyone: teammates, fans (literally had to be restrained), management (screaming matches). He turned off everyone and the cost the team fans. No one has ever damaged their franchise as much.”

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:48:32 +0000

What’s the matter, jimicos, stat got your tongue?

By: gogobox

gogobox — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:41:41 +0000

Come on Duchebags……
Russle is in the wrong system period….
Just like when Randy Moss was a Raider…pure zzz
Wake up Raider Nation…you suck the life outta Ball players…

By: Bious

Bious — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:03:58 +0000

Leaf was hated by everyone
Leaf’s stats are MUCH WORSE
Leaf blew up at the media
Russell has none of those
Leaf wins easily

By: TheOne

TheOne — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 18:14:24 +0000

Yeah this is going to be a toss up, but I bet Leaf will still be number 1, because his number are worse, and has done prison time and what now. Russell yes went 1st over all, but we know that Raider just dont know how to make good draft picks.

By: Deb

Deb — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:47:36 +0000

@Trips Right, 68 Slant, D Slant ….
Just spotted your link to the McClain interview. Thanks!! He’s a hard worker and SMART. At Bama, he was known as a mini-Saban for his defensive intelligence. A prize. Knew he’d never be around when Pittsburgh picked, but was dreaming on until the Raiders stepped up.
Get your QB situation worked out, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Raiduhs back in the post-season. Better Oakland than the Pats and Colts. At least you guys still play smash-mouth.

By: edgy1957

edgy1957 — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:31:36 +0000

jimicos says:
…Because Nate Washington and Justin Gage are head and shoulders better than DHB and Murphy?
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I’d say “You’re, kidding, right?” but I know that you’re serious and that’s SAD.
Michael Crabtree went to Frisco with NO training camp and still managed to catch 56% of the passes thrown his way. In fact, during 4 two game stretches, he caught more passes than DHB did for the entire season. There’s no way in hell that you can equate how badly those two rookies did to anyone else. DHB’s comp % was 22.5% while Murphy’s was 35.4%. How did the other top drafted rookies do? Harvin, 67%, Maclin, 61%, Nicks, 64%, Britt, 56%, Robiskie, 35%, and Massoquoi, 36%. That’s only the first 2 rounds. You start going down into the third and fourth round and you find that many of the guys that were picked around Murphy, outperformed him by a wide margin as well.
As for “massaging” the numbers, I didn’t. You must be under some mistaken impression that I’m dissing Young but I’m NOT. What I’m doing is talking about how crappy those two WRs were and how they affected all the QBs but apparently, your hatred of Russell won’t allow you to see past that bias. I was talking about ONE YEAR and not their entire career but if you want to play the game: last year it was Washington, 49% and Gage, 42%. I really don’t believe that either did as much harm to Vince’s percentages as DHB and Murphy did. A quick check shows that Collins sans those two saw his percentage go from 55.1 to 58.1 while Young saw his go from 58.7 to 60.4. Collins actually benefits even more than Young but neither benefits as much as the Raiders QBs.