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Pat and Kevin Williams want StarCaps case to be over

Vikings starting defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams successfully finagled last Friday a stay of their four-game suspensions pending resolution of the appeal of a ruling that, even though the NFL violated their rights under Minnesota drug-testing laws, the suspensions must be served.

But while the decision to further delay the suspensions allows both men to play, presumably for at least all of the 2010 season, they want the case to end.

“It’s a good thing, but to us it’s not over,” Kevin Williams told Chip Scoggins of the Minneapolis Star Tribune.  “It’s
just something that’s dragging it out even longer.  I think me and Pat
both want the situation to be over.  We’re trying to get the appeal
going, but we wish it would happen sooner than later.”

Vikings fans likely prefer a delay, given that the team seems to have a solid shot at being a serious contender again in 2011 — and in light of the reality that 37-year-old Pat Williams likely will retire after the coming season.

“That’s what I’m thinking,” Pat Williams said.  “Go win a championship and get out
of here.”

A negotiated settlement remains a possibility, at least from the players’ perspective.  “We want it to go away,” Kevin Williams said.  “If that being us settling
something, that’s settling something.  We’re not trying to go through
this another year I don’t think. . . .  We’re always open to settling
something, but [it has to be] fair.  Not just what they’re thinking. . . .

“I wish [the NFL] would take some ownership in what is going on. We took
the pills or whatnot, but there is some wrongdoing on their side too.”

Given that other players tested positive for Bumetanide and weren’t suspended, we propose the following terms for a settlement of the case:

1.  No suspension will be imposed on the players.

2.  The players will be fined in the amount of two game checks based on their 2008 base salaries.

3.  The NFL will make a contribution in an equal amount to the fine pool, which is donated to charity.

The same deal would then be offered to Saints defensive end Will Smith and free-agent defensive end Charles Grant. 

That said, Pat Williams probably should hold firm.  He’ll likely be long gone by the time this one is resolved, and so he’ll likely neither be fined nor suspended.

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56 Responses to “Pat and Kevin Williams want StarCaps case to be over”
  1. rjgreen3 says: May 27, 2010 10:50 PM

    commissioner goofball and his merrymen won’t settle because they think they are above the law. this goes back to the favortism of certain teams and players. the nfl got caught with their bs and doesn’t have the balls to admit that they have been caught! get rid of that asshole commissioner who is trying to out shine tagliabue and the nfl will be fun again and move forward!!!!!!!!!

  2. Bud Grant says: May 27, 2010 10:56 PM

    Finagling. Isn’t that what you did for a living?

  3. irishgary says: May 27, 2010 10:56 PM

    where is that retard Contra with his enlightning post

  4. Smoking Joe says: May 27, 2010 11:07 PM

    Here’s a settlement. How bout the guys who took the drugs (to mask thier roid use) get suspended instead of having a hometown judge delay it until after they retire.

  5. Contra says: May 27, 2010 11:20 PM

    Glad to know I’m getting on the nerves of Viking haters. Much love!

  6. tingbatz says: May 27, 2010 11:29 PM

    O RLY????????????????????????

  7. NonRube says: May 27, 2010 11:33 PM

    Of course you suggest that as a remedy Florio, you are the biggest Vikings bobo on the boards. Heaven forbid that a Vikings player serve the time for the crime. If this case involved Cowboys (or any team that wasn’t the Vikings) you would be on the exact opposite side of the fence and crying for these guys to man up and admit their wrongdoing. Losing the Wall will affect the Vikings season, and you hate that you hitched your wagon to a losing horse, so instead you will try to provide “unbiased” opinions on how the league should settle this.
    I can’t wait to listen to your refer to the Vikings as “Us” again on KFAN (remember all those times you donned the pads? Me neither.). Use this as an opportunity to pimp your appearance on 1130 next week. The only question I have is, does P.A’s wife let you kiss him good night on the lips, or are you limited to just his backside?

  8. lebowski says: May 27, 2010 11:38 PM

    So Florio proposes players from ‘his’ team don’t get suspended. What. a. Shock.

  9. whatthehellisgoingonoutthere says: May 27, 2010 11:42 PM

    The funniest thing about this article is that they think they’re going to be serious contenders! LOL Favre doesn’t have another “when pigs fly” season in him, especially since his motivation isn’t the same as it was last year. This team could just as easily go in the tank and struggle to make the playoffs. When was the last time BrINT had 2 back to back great seasons?

  10. Bob NeIson says: May 27, 2010 11:55 PM

    and I want my Anal Fissures to go away but oh well.

  11. Bob says: May 28, 2010 12:10 AM

    If they want it over, then serve the suspensions already.

  12. Bob Nelson says: May 28, 2010 12:12 AM

    As I said in the begining:
    1) Best thing to do is take your punishment like a man and not whine a cry like little boys.
    2) Bad publicity has solidified their reputations as troublemakers, bad citizens, cheaters and steroid maskers.
    3) It is one of many vikings cases in the courts of Minnesota that have solidified the public perception against the vikings and harmed the chances of ever getting a publicly financed stadium there.
    4) Team ownership and management has finally awakened to the fact that the public hates all these vikling court cases and bring it up in every stadium discussion. The Minnesota public dislikes the vikings.
    5) The steroid maskers lawyers are milking them for 10’s of thousands of dollars and the outcome will still be the same except for their severely soiled reputations.
    6) Their stupid defense is solidifying in the minds of the public. They are immoral cheaters, banned subtance taking steroid maskers, or too stupid to even know what they put in their mouths and ingest. None of those is a good thing.
    7) The damage to their reputations lowers their value on the market and hurts future earnings. Additionally, nobody wants to buy the jersey of a cheating banned substance taker/steroid masker.
    Doesn’t anybody associated with the viklings understand public relations and the value of a good reputation???

  13. govikings27 says: May 28, 2010 12:29 AM

    Case of state vs the feds. Yes they broke the rules, but they took a supplement that had a hidden banned ingredient. Hope the NFl don’t get sh&t from them..

  14. timegambit says: May 28, 2010 12:55 AM

    How ’bout no fried foods for 1 month, instead?
    Kevin might get through it without a scene, but Pat will be running around like he’s having a pentecostal excorsim.
    BTW, if I worked for GE these(workplace) rules will be enforced by state.
    Why would it be any different for the NFL?
    Bitch to your state, not mine!

  15. ☻☼CBS, FOX, ESPN, NFLN nbc says: May 28, 2010 1:09 AM

    If the starcabs case we’re too end 36% of the content on this site would need to be accounted for.
    How about some Brian Cushing news

  16. stiller43 says: May 28, 2010 1:19 AM

    Dumbest. Headline. EVER.

  17. greggfletch1 says: May 28, 2010 1:34 AM

    WOW I cant belive the comments on this page. I have been tired of this crap for 2 years now. This is the way I see it. The NFL have suspended players for drugs in their systems that are flagged by the NFL as banned but are in a lot of things that people use over the counter.
    BOTTOM LINE, A player knows what he is puting into his body, and no matter what they should be suspended. Just another case of what the city wants the city gets.
    The NFL should give them the hardest schedule for the next 10 years.

  18. WHODAT says: May 28, 2010 1:35 AM

    “That’s what I’m thinking,” Pat Williams said. “Go win a championship and get out of here.”
    Yea and that’s what Favre was telling his teammates to hype them up before the NFC CHAMPIONSHIP. We all saw how that turned out with Vikequeens choking again. GARBAGE!!!
    Stop thinking about winning a Championship and worry about the opener and the rest of the games it takes to get to the playoffs… Imagine what happened to Favre last time just a tad worse and a lil more nasty… Thats what will happen in the opener when THE SAINTS DOMINATE THE VIKEQUEENS AGAIN!

  19. troll_aikman8 says: May 28, 2010 1:59 AM

    In other news, Floyd Landis wants his doping allegations to be over.

  20. SpartaChris says: May 28, 2010 1:59 AM

    Well, not to point out the completely obvious, but if you would have taken your suspension instead of hiding behind some arbitrary state law, this *would* be over.

  21. TBTrojan says: May 28, 2010 2:02 AM

    If they really wanted the whole thing to go away like they claim then they would just take the susensions they earned by taking a substance that was banned.
    What he really means is “I wish I hadn’t been caught and don’t want to be punished, I know that I’ve lost my case because I really have no leg to stand on but I feel I’m special and shouldn’t have to abide by the rules of the CBA/drug testing”

  22. Michael LaRocca says: May 28, 2010 2:17 AM

    The rest of us just want PFT’s coverage of the StarCaps case to be over. It still sounds like something I’d wear to cover my hair.

  23. mzezulak says: May 28, 2010 2:37 AM

    as an “unbiased” Bears fan I would propose an immediate Four game suspension with pay. This would punish the team for allowing this to happen and all the Viking fans for… well being Viking fans. I’m sure the wall would agree to what amounts to a paid vacation.

  24. Carolina Homie says: May 28, 2010 4:59 AM

    Please quote the section of the NFL steroid policy that allows penalties to be renegotiated. I don’t think it’s an option.

  25. Little Tommy says: May 28, 2010 6:19 AM

    If you want it to be over, sit your fat ass down and take your medicine like a man…then it will be over!

  26. tealc666 says: May 28, 2010 6:24 AM

    they wish it would go away these cheats are the ones dragging this out man up and it goes away what a pile of crap

  27. PULL&SEAL says: May 28, 2010 7:00 AM

    You fat f#ckers want the case to be over? Here’s what you do, stop filing an appeal everytime theres a decision in the case.

  28. GirthyOne says: May 28, 2010 7:02 AM

    Fuhrer GOoDell must be going insane inside The Bunker. How dare anyone not bow down to his edicts.
    That being said, if they would allow testing, Olympic Style, then this would all be moot.
    In this case, the NFL did not notify teams/players that the over the counter diet pills contained the banned substance and it wasn’t noted on the product by the manufacturer. Both are guilty of that.
    I find it painful to watch the selective treatment of players, as well.

  29. Tom Shannon says: May 28, 2010 7:06 AM

    How about I propose the following:
    1) Suspension for four games starting in September.
    What part of “You and only you are responsible for what you put in your body” didn’t Kevin Williams understand? Everything else – everything – is just an excuse to avoid personal responsibility for an error in judgment.
    To allow Pat Williams to retire and escape justice would be a travesty that only a Vikings fan could condone.

  30. Love_Boat_Scandal says: May 28, 2010 7:23 AM

    Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

  31. Ty Redofbuck says: May 28, 2010 8:15 AM

    How about the front office executive(s) who left StarCaps off the list of banned substances get suspended for four weeks without pay by the league and the Williamses who took a substance to hide cheating serve their appropriate suspension.
    It’s too often overlooked that Charles Grant and Will Smith did not fight, argue or appeal their suspension. There’s something to be said for accountability and this whole case has been a large display of immaturity on both the players and the league’s part.

  32. Profanity in ALL CAPS says: May 28, 2010 8:28 AM

    love boat scandal
    what crime?
    also, how about Johnathon Jolly? oh, im sure you’ll let the legal process make its course before you make any hasty judgments. tool.

  33. RC IV says: May 28, 2010 8:40 AM

    Bob Nelson says:
    May 28, 2010 12:12 AM
    As I said in the begining:
    1) Best thing to do is take your punishment like a man and not whine a cry like little boys.
    2) Bad publicity has solidified their reputations as troublemakers, bad citizens, cheaters and steroid maskers.
    3) It is one of many vikings cases in the courts of Minnesota that have solidified the public perception against the vikings and harmed the chances of ever getting a publicly financed stadium there.
    4) Team ownership and management has finally awakened to the fact that the public hates all these vikling court cases and bring it up in every stadium discussion. The Minnesota public dislikes the vikings.
    5) The steroid maskers lawyers are milking them for 10’s of thousands of dollars and the outcome will still be the same except for their severely soiled reputations.
    6) Their stupid defense is solidifying in the minds of the public. They are immoral cheaters, banned subtance taking steroid maskers, or too stupid to even know what they put in their mouths and ingest. None of those is a good thing.
    7) The damage to their reputations lowers their value on the market and hurts future earnings. Additionally, nobody wants to buy the jersey of a cheating banned substance taker/steroid masker.
    Doesn’t anybody associated with the viklings understand public relations and the value of a good reputation???
    ==================================
    I don’t know, lets ask Johnny Jolly and Spencer Havner what they think.

  34. RC IV says: May 28, 2010 8:46 AM

    SpartaChris says:
    May 28, 2010 1:59 AM
    Well, not to point out the completely obvious, but if you would have taken your suspension instead of hiding behind some arbitrary state law, this *would* be over.
    ================================
    Nooooooo, none of you holier than thou turds would*hide* behind a state law.
    It’s a freaking law!!!!!!! Why wouldn’t they take advantage of their rights?!
    ————————————————
    Carolina Homie says:
    May 28, 2010 4:59 AM
    Please quote the section of the NFL steroid policy that allows penalties to be renegotiated. I don’t think it’s an option.
    ==========================
    The NFL can do whatever it wants…..oh wait, that’s why the Williams are fighting this, the NFL thinks they are bigger than state laws.

  35. jimicos says: May 28, 2010 9:07 AM

    GirthyOne says:
    May 28, 2010 7:02 AM
    Fuhrer GOoDell must be going insane inside The Bunker. How dare anyone not bow down to his edicts.
    That being said, if they would allow testing, Olympic Style, then this would all be moot.
    ————————
    …because that would be different how? The rules are clear, and these two clearly broke the rules. The NFL has won this case at every level so far. There’s no reason to think they won’t win the next appeal.
    And for Florio to suggest that the NFL should forfeit something when they’re clearly in the right is about as asinine as suggesting that Jon Stewart’s rant on Jim Cramer would end Cramer’s career. It’s like saying the Saints should’ve forfeited the NFC championship game after Favre played catch with Tracy Porter.

  36. Jeremy says: May 28, 2010 9:24 AM

    I almost did a spit take when I read this headline on Twitter. Hilarious!
    If I were a Vikings player, I would be VERY careful to not step one inch out of line. Goodell WILL get his pound of flesh. A traffic ticket will probably get a Vikings player 2 games right now.

  37. todovda says: May 28, 2010 9:34 AM

    I know away to make it go away…….serve your suspension This could have “gone away” 2 years ago……..

  38. lurch's nyquil says: May 28, 2010 9:43 AM

    They cheated…….Sooooooooo They should be suspended. It really is that simple.

  39. Jaywalk says: May 28, 2010 10:01 AM

    Right, the Vikes were dominated by the Saints, just as Gore was dominated by Bush. You fans down there in Nworleans always chime in with how bad the Vikes choked. Well, no sh*t, the Vikes always choke. You really don’t have to keep trying to convince the rest of the world that the Saints belonged in the Super Bowl. They won, we get it.
    Just be fortunate you played them rather than a team that isn’t prone to snatching defeat from the hands of victory.
    And for the love of god, never admit that the Vikes bitch slapped your defense all game long. I do give the Saints D a little credit for the turnovers, but that’s mostly on Minnesota. Can’t have it both ways.
    Oh, and the Vikings only do their choking in the playoffs. I think they’ll handle themselves just fine in the opener.

  40. Shalhoub66 says: May 28, 2010 10:02 AM

    LA will have the lakers and viks who both wear purple, it just works. haha

  41. tufar says: May 28, 2010 10:05 AM

    The Packer and Bear fans that rant on and on about the William’s suspension has nothing to do with anything other than the fact they want the suspensions to take place so that the Vikings are possibly weakened when they are out and might take a couple of losses because of it. We all know that if it were a couple of players from their teams, they would be on here with all the same reasoning Vikes fans are now using. I’m sure Bob Nelson will follow with one of his inane anal listings trying to prove I’m wrong, and this would then likely make him a hypocrite.

  42. Saint33 says: May 28, 2010 10:14 AM

    there are so many ignorant posters on this board it’s ridiculous. If you know nothing about this particular situation, don’t speak. 90% of you are Packer/Bears/Lions fans who don’t read anything pertaining to the actual situation these players were faced with.
    Comments like “they were using steroids and masking them” or “these roid maskers” are as ignorant as it comes.
    I’d educate you all on the wrong doings of the league, but frankly I don’t have the time, or the patience for the morons on this board.
    There is a reason that they’ve been able to delay this thing as long as they have while other appeals haven’t lasted longer then a month. Because the players in this case have a legitimate case, and the league is unwilling to suck it up and admit their mistake. Both parties should be held responsible, not just the Williams, that’s what these trials are about, not “cheaters trying to ruin the system” or w.e. the Viking trolls want to ignorantly spew

  43. Jack Factor says: May 28, 2010 10:24 AM

    Pat Williams was spent last year. He will probably will sit out at least four games anyway because he is cashed out and his mind is already thinking of warm beaches.
    It does effect the Stadium issue – politics. If they don’t get a deal this year and Favre leaves……
    MN=LA
    SKOL=RADICAL, DUDE!

  44. Jaywalk says: May 28, 2010 10:38 AM

    Y’all make light of a potential move to L.A., but it would ruin the NFC North and would give the world another douchy team in LA for which to entertain a very douchy LA fan base.
    It’s not good for anyone.

  45. SpartaChris says: May 28, 2010 10:52 AM

    RC IV says:
    May 28, 2010 8:46 AM
    Nooooooo, none of you holier than thou turds would*hide* behind a state law.
    It’s a freaking law!!!!!!! Why wouldn’t they take advantage of their rights?!
    ====================================
    Sure, I understand that. But he’s blubbering about “wishing this were over.” If he would have manned up and taken his suspension last season, this *would* be over.

  46. Contra says: May 28, 2010 11:00 AM

    whatthehellisgoingonoutthere says:
    May 27, 2010 11:42 PM
    The funniest thing about this article is that they think they’re going to be serious contenders! LOL Favre doesn’t have another “when pigs fly” season in him, especially since his motivation isn’t the same as it was last year. This team could just as easily go in the tank and struggle to make the playoffs. When was the last time BrINT had 2 back to back great seasons?
    —-
    you’re absolutely right…he has never had back to back great seasons :(
    BUT, that was because he was with the Packers for so long. With a team as talented as the Vikings just sit back and enjoy Bretts first ever back to back great season.
    In fact, the only back to back great season experienced by anyone out of Green Bay was at the Nathand Hot Dog Eatinh Competition. McCarthy…I’m looking at you!

  47. sonvar says: May 28, 2010 11:02 AM

    I agree with that solution Florio. The whole situation is wrong doing on both ends it’s just that the NFL won’t admit any fault and the Williams were lucky to playing in Minnesota due to their laws

  48. zod says: May 28, 2010 11:17 AM

    Quote:
    Y’all make light of a potential move to L.A., but it would ruin the NFC North and would give the world another douchy team in LA for which to entertain a very douchy LA fan base.
    It’s not good for anyone.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    That may well be true, but MN thinks it’s the breeding ground for Californians these days

  49. RC IV says: May 28, 2010 11:56 AM

    SpartaChris says:
    May 28, 2010 10:52 AM
    RC IV says:
    May 28, 2010 8:46 AM
    Nooooooo, none of you holier than thou turds would*hide* behind a state law.
    It’s a freaking law!!!!!!! Why wouldn’t they take advantage of their rights?!
    ====================================
    Sure, I understand that. But he’s blubbering about “wishing this were over.” If he would have manned up and taken his suspension last season, this *would* be over.
    =========================
    If the NFL would have played by the rules, this would be over also.
    The NFL DOES NOT supercede laws.
    I understand your comment, they should shut up about it and let the court system do what it has too. But, the fact that how many different judges have allowed appeals, speaks volumes.
    I agree that they should come to some sort of compromise. Both sides are at fault.

  50. Ty Redofbuck says: May 28, 2010 12:45 PM

    Why is it that I see nonstop quotes from people who are obviously biased toward the vikings like “you just don’t know the whole story” or “you don’t know what the NFL neglected to do” or “you just hate on the Vikings because of Favre” or “you’re all packer fans” or “you’re all bears fans”.
    I highly doubt the readership of this website is consumed by the NFC North division.
    People are well aware the NFL neglected to include StarCaps on the list of banned substances which is a form of entrapment when dealing with supplementary discipline for use of banned substances.
    But, the players were using a diuretic that masks the use of steroids. I read quite often people saying other things like, they need to cut weight. Well, I’m sorry, but those two players who tested positive are paid to be 350 pounds. Ray Lewis has great footwork and can tackle like a mother but I haven’t seen the Ravens lining him up beside Ngata yet.
    People would be just as outraged by this mockery if it were two Colts, Ravens, Cowboys, Bengals etc.
    It isn’t a conspiracy against you Vikings fans. Remember ’96 when Favre admitted to a pain killer addiction, people were going nuts over that too. If anything, the Williamses have had it pretty good in not having to deal with intense media scrutiny.
    Oh, another reason why people get upset is this. If one of the best run stopping teams in the league like, let’s say, the Vikings, are without their two starting PRO BOWL, defensive tackles for four games, they’ll probably lose a couple of those. That means millions of dollars lost by teams missing the playoffs by one game and a reward to the Vikings for having two confirmed cheaters on the field to win games.
    Their masking of steroid use is just as damaging to the integrity of the game as the NFL’s negligence in disclosing Starcaps as a banned substance. Nobody’s out to get you here Vikings, your players cheated. It just so happens that the people enforcing the rules screwed up in a big way.

  51. RC IV says: May 28, 2010 2:13 PM

    I for one do not think the leauge is “out to get them”.
    Have you looked at Pat Williams? If he is on roids, so is half the state of Wisconsin.
    They do have weight clause in their contracts.
    Minnesota has laws in place to prevent an employer doing what the NFL is trying to do.
    If you are naive enough to think that every team in the NFL does not have people on steroids. I feel very sorry for you.
    It must be tough walking through life in that fog.
    By the way TY, I believe a majority of people on the NFC north threads are fans of 1 of the 4 teams, and by majority I mean 97% or close to it.
    That only makes sense…..

  52. jimicos says: May 28, 2010 11:48 PM

    RC IV says:
    May 28, 2010 8:40 AM
    I don’t know, lets ask Johnny Jolly and Spencer Havner what they think.
    ————————
    I suppose we’ll have to wait for those guys to actually be suspended before they’ll have an opinion on it, huh idiot?

  53. jimicos says: May 28, 2010 11:50 PM

    tufar says:
    May 28, 2010 10:05 AM
    The Packer and Bear fans that rant on and on about the William’s suspension has nothing to do with anything other than the fact they want the suspensions to take place so that the Vikings are possibly weakened when they are out and might take a couple of losses because of it.
    —————————
    No, we just want fairness, especially when it comes to the hated queens. There’s no reason they ought to be above the rules.

  54. jimicos says: May 28, 2010 11:55 PM

    Contra says:
    May 28, 2010 11:00 AM
    you’re absolutely right…he has never had back to back great seasons :(
    BUT, that was because he was with the Packers for so long. With a team as talented as the Vikings just sit back and enjoy Bretts first ever back to back great season.
    In fact, the only back to back great season experienced by anyone out of Green Bay was at the Nathand Hot Dog Eatinh Competition. McCarthy…I’m looking at you!
    ————————-
    I’m pretty sure they had great back to back seasons in ’66 and ’67.. They won Super Bowls those years.
    For the Vikings fans: a Super Bowl win is what happens when you beat every team you face in the playoffs. You get a trophy, called the Lombardi Trophy.

  55. Ty Redofbuck says: May 30, 2010 10:59 AM

    RCIV
    I’m not naive enough to think that one team is the only one with ped users.
    I am however not willing to say that players who haven’t been caught cheating are cheating.
    Minnesota has a law in place that is being exploited for the betterment of two players and one professional sports organization, or so it appears.
    These players agreed to a drug testing policy under the collective bargaining agreement and both the players and the NFL are guilty, and there is no disputing that. But just because the NFL omitted a product from it’s list of banned products doesn’t mean that what the Vikings or Saints players did was ok.
    They still ingested a product who’s purpose is to help a person or player lose weight but happens to mask the ingestion of steroids. It may only be coincidental that the Williamses production this season slid. People will argue that perhaps they stopped taking peds, others will argue that it’s due to Pat Williams’ age. At this point it’s irrelevant.
    Both the players and the league are in the wrong and should face consequences.
    And that has nothing to do with the other 30 teams in the NFL, nor does it have anything to do with the girth of any Wisconsin residents.
    Stooping to a level where you call the population of a state obese only confirms that people arguing in favor of the Williamses don’t have a leg to stand on in this argument in trying to turn a very serious collective bargaining issue and integrity of the game issue into a joke.
    Players who are caught using peds or masking the use of peds should be punished along with the league representative(s) who failed to do their job(s) properly.
    Draft pick forfeiture when caught is the only way that teams will start to take ped use seriously.

  56. RC IV says: Jun 1, 2010 12:17 PM

    jimicos says:
    May 28, 2010 11:48 PM
    RC IV says:
    May 28, 2010 8:40 AM
    I don’t know, lets ask Johnny Jolly and Spencer Havner what they think.
    ————————
    I suppose we’ll have to wait for those guys to actually be suspended before they’ll have an opinion on it, huh idiot?
    ========================
    Way to cherry pick my line without reference to what i was responding too……
    God you are an annoying piece of shit.

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