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Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame

080311-tillman-vmed-6p.widec.jpgOur friends at CFT have posted an excellent Memorial Day reminder in honor of the many college-age men and women who have given their lives in the name of our freedom.  But as we pound out the final few features for inclusion in our first (and as far I’m concerned last, so it’ll be a collector’s item, sort of) season preview magazine, we came across the name of someone who sacrificed a lucrative career to serve — and who then made the ultimate sacrifice. 

The debate regarding the question of whether off-field misconduct should close the door to the Hall of Fame necessarily opens the door to the question of whether players without the credentials to make it to Canton should be considered based on positive off-field contributions.  And the guy at the top of that list would be Pat Tillman.

So, yes, we believe that off-field conduct should matter — and it should both hurt a guy and help a guy.

NBC’s Cris Collinsworth first raised the argument that Tillman should be in Canton during a Falcons-Cardinals playoff game in early 2009.  “Maybe that’s the better way to get the powers-that-be to change the
rules
,” we said at the time.  “It would be very nice to keep the turds out; it would be much
better to let the truly good and honorable men in, even if their careers
ended early because they realized that the world is a far bigger place
than 120 by 53 yards of grass.”

Though Tillman may never get to Canton, he never should be forgotten by football fans.  Let’s all commit to keeping his name and memory alive, not only on Memorial Day but whenever we’re considering the people who made truly significant contributions to the game by making truly significant contributions beyond it.

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217 Responses to “Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame”
  1. Y2Cale says: May 31, 2010 4:19 PM

    Word

  2. hotep999 says: May 31, 2010 4:20 PM

    he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that?

  3. Mean D says: May 31, 2010 4:21 PM

    This is the first time I have ever agreed with you, Florio.

  4. 305phinphan says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM

    I don’t know that many people that would make the sacrifice that Tillman made. While I appreciate everything that our men and women in the service do for this country, for Tillman to be a multi millionaire, join the Navy Seals, and go to war for his country says a lot about his character and I wish I had it as well. Tillman may never go to Canton but he is a Hero along with the other men and women who have lost their lives to fight for our country. RIP Mr. Tillman

  5. Italian.ArmyGuy says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM

    Give me a break.
    A man with outstanding principals? Definitely!
    A hero? Debateable.
    Should we honor him? Yes.
    HOF? No way. Good player though.

  6. Bazooka Joe says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM

    So, he should be in the hall of fame, because some moronic American soldiers accidentally killed him?
    First of all, he was not that good of a player.
    Second, soldiers getting killed is a part of their duty. So what contributions have he made besides doing his job? None.
    Third, he was in a bullshit war brought on by a U.S. President with the brain the size of a peanut.
    Sorry, but no tear gets shed here. And no HOF vote either.

  7. Mike_in_Texas says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM

    NO!! He shouldn’t.
    Pat Tillman wasnt a HOF player and just because he passed away in friendly fire, doesnt make it right for him to even be considered.
    pls.. what a joke of an statement

  8. SpankyMcWanky says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM

    If you deserve to be in Canton because of play on the field then yes, but I disagree with putting Tillman into the Hall of Fame.
    Now, if the NFL wants to put in the HoF a wing were it honors those NFL players who left the NFL to fight in a war then I’m all for it. I’m sure there have been plenty of players since WWII who have done this. There should be a special place in this wing for those like Tillman who died serving their country. This is the only way I see Tillman getting into the Hall, since I’m sure there, unfortunately, are many more players who left the NFL and died serving the US.

  9. Tibor says: May 31, 2010 4:26 PM

    Uh, no. He’s not one of the greatest NFL players of all time. How many pro bowls? How many All Pro teams?
    more PC garbage.

  10. FFSentinel.com says: May 31, 2010 4:26 PM

    While I respect Pat Tillman as a man and a football player the Hall of Fame’s purpose is to honor people for their contributions on the field and to the game.
    Perhaps there is a place for Tillman in the Hall of Fame in an honorary type of roll, but not as a player.

  11. shukey11 says: May 31, 2010 4:26 PM

    I have been saying this for years florio and I believe you should start a petition for his enshrinement. I’ll sign and I’m Canadian.

  12. Karva says: May 31, 2010 4:27 PM

    No, he shouldn’t be in the Football Hall of Fame. That’s ludicrous.
    And I don’t think they should kick out OJ Simpson either.

  13. bigd7387 says: May 31, 2010 4:27 PM

    I really hope the Hall of Fame doesn’t ever consider off the field as a requirement for entrance. Listen people who give their lives in service of our country are important but the hall is not about that. O.J. did what he did to get into the hall because of what he did on the field and the fact that he may or may not have killed someone after the fact has no effect on how he played the game. Ray Lewis, who will go into the hall one day, was involved with a murder case that I don’t personally believe he was innocent of, but that still doesn’t take away from what he did on the field. Now if a person uses drugs that make them a better player than that should be considered but if what they do away from the field doesn’t in any way effect a game then it cannot be considered. I’m sorry for Pat Tillman but they have a memorial for him at the Hall of Fame and his stats as a player do not warrant entrance in that respect. You at PFT are totally wrong to let someone in a “FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME” when they don’t have the stats to do it. I dislike Ben of Pittsburgh with a passion but as long as no one is sexually assulated on the field by him then it shouldn’t matter while being selected.

  14. Kay Bee says: May 31, 2010 4:28 PM

    Cris Collinsworth is an idiot.

  15. NYJALLFINGDAY says: May 31, 2010 4:29 PM

    Florios first good article in a while, well done.

  16. vyk4lyf says: May 31, 2010 4:30 PM

    Sorry Mike, I don’t agree. While honorable, I still think he should have done more in the NFL. I don’t agree with the move to put him in the college HOF either. This is said as a veteran and someone who has a great deal of respect for his sacrifice to our Nation.

  17. QJ1984 says: May 31, 2010 4:31 PM

    The NFL should honor the guy but there is no way he should be in the hall of fame. The hall is for those guys who made great contributions to the game of football, changed how the game was played and how we veiw it today, and had great NFL careers. Pat Tillman, as honorable as his sacrifice was, did none of the above. I think a place in the Cardinals ring of honor is more than enough.

  18. raidervv says: May 31, 2010 4:31 PM

    Have you read the book about Tillman’s service, “Where Men Win Glory”? The issue of his sacrifice and how even he himself felt about it is much more complicated than you make it out to be. Even in his death, he was primarily used for propaganda to promote a war he himself didn’t believe in. His induction into Canton would do the same. It’s something very likely Pat Tillman himself would oppose.

  19. HC says: May 31, 2010 4:32 PM

    I don’t know, I think a football hall of fame should be based on what the people did as football players. Nothing against Tillman, but very few would remember him as a football player if not for his unfortunate death, and nobody but close friends and family would know him if he had left any other job to join the military. If we put Tillman in, should we put Whizzer White in as well? Or Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon in the college football hall of fame?

  20. packman4 says: May 31, 2010 4:32 PM

    No way!
    The Hall of Fame is about on field conributions.
    If Tillman gets in it would be a joke.
    What next a stadium vendor who went out to war and died. He/she worked for the NFL should they be in the Hall of Fame?!
    A man in an NFL jersey breaks up an armed robbery…….should he be in the Hall of Fame?
    I mean he is showing off the NFL crest in a good light!
    But its different for me as an Englishman we have different values of heroism. You put the military at the very top of the list in terms of heroes.
    We put them alongside all the other everyday heroes.
    Doctors, Nurses, Firefighters, Police etc.
    The above risk their lives and save lives.
    I think part of that is how our military is made up as well……but thats another story!

  21. joey-pickles says: May 31, 2010 4:33 PM

    So does that mean I can get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame by just doing a lot of “off the field charity work” too? Pat Tillman is a hero. I for one believe you earn inshrinement on the field not off it, though. Florio, you are walk a thin line if you believe something other than football should matter when it comes to Canton. It is the Pro Football Hall of Fame… not the Pro Football and Ethics and Good Person and Donator Hall of Fame!

  22. Santonio'sBluntWrap says: May 31, 2010 4:36 PM

    As soon as word broke that Tillman was leaving the NFL to join the military, I knew he would be killed in action. The powers-that-be could never pass up on such a sweet opportunity to get positive PR from a death.
    Isn’t there some kind of friendly fire investigation associated with his death?

  23. muhangis says: May 31, 2010 4:36 PM

    agreed that Tillman should be in the Fame.
    But some of your other comments frankly are short-sighted.

  24. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 4:37 PM

    I know Florio is just doing it for clicks but I hope no one actually thinks a guy who didn’t earn it on the field should get into the hall of fame. He has an exhibit in the hall for those that have actually been there. That’s more than enough. Why not let Sean Taylor in? He could have been a hall of famer had he not been killed.
    If Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning, or Brett Favre, goes out and murders someone are we going to pretend that they were crappy football players? Off the field stuff should be a tie breaker and nothing more. If two guys are all even for the last spot of the year and one is a jerk and other is a nice guy than take the non-jerk. But doing nothing to earn a spot in the hall of fame on the field, then quitting to join the army, and then dying, shouldn’t be enough to get in.
    “Let’s all commit to keeping his name and memory alive, not only on Memorial Day but whenever we’re considering the people who made truly significant contributions to the game by making truly significant contributions beyond it.”
    That quote is the biggest heap of self righteous garbage I have read on this site. I hope no one hear is stupid enough to believe he is genuine.
    And I hope no one gets caught up in the “yay military” argument that is the only thing on the side of Tillman being in the hall.
    I await the hatful replies.

  25. Abe Froeman says: May 31, 2010 4:39 PM

    I do not like your ideas regarding reforming the HoF.
    The system is not broken.
    The system is producing fair, and correct results.
    The only reason I can think this effort you stand for has any traction at all is because of LT and OJ. There are near 150 members. Come on.

  26. FFSentinel.com says: May 31, 2010 4:43 PM

    There are plenty of football and baseball players who fought in WWII, should they also be in their respected Halls of Fame?

  27. sniperhare says: May 31, 2010 4:44 PM

    Screw you Bazooka Joe, we fought terrorists in Afghanistan and liberated the people of Iraq from an evil dictator.

  28. golongboyee says: May 31, 2010 4:45 PM

    In no way, shape, or form should he be in the HOF………he has done nothing on the field to deserve such an honor. The HOF lets in too many people anyway.
    If the NFL wants to honor him somehow, maybe a life achievement award or something to that effect sure……..but a HOF candidate, no way.

  29. packman4 says: May 31, 2010 4:46 PM

    Does one who serves automatically become a hero?
    No.
    Is he a hero because a fellow Yank shot him?
    No
    Was he unselfish and a little crazy?
    Yes
    Was the War unjust?
    Yes and No
    Afghanistan Yes
    Iraq No
    (Daddies War or the War for Oil)
    Here is a question for all of you.
    In England a lot of our troops are troubled teenagers who are basically kids who have no futures outside the prison system.
    Does the fact they are forced to serve make them heroes??

  30. Stringer Bell says: May 31, 2010 4:47 PM

    Despite doing what he did, Tillman was still a pretty big asshole in Afghanistan to the point where his squad members absolutely despised him, but alrighty then.

  31. User123 says: May 31, 2010 4:48 PM

    Keep the Hall of Fame for people who excel on the field……not off of it.
    Pat Tillman did this country a service like thousands of other soldiers. He was only unique because he also played football.
    We’ll disregard the fact that he was shot by a “friendly” whom he teased and abused mercilessly in boot camp.

  32. spdy3450 says: May 31, 2010 4:49 PM

    The HOF should just be about Contributions to football PERIOD! Weather he’s a hero off of it should be irrelevant.

  33. masterblaster78 says: May 31, 2010 4:53 PM

    I give Pat Tilman top honors for the sacrifice he made, stop and think of other wars such as Vietnam and Rocky Blier. Granted he wasn’t killed, but he also wasn’t expected to walk again after being wounded, but yet ended up in the Super Bowl for the Steelers. I praise each and every player who serves their country under honorable conditions. The turds should be kicked out of Canton for the simple reason of children looking up to them and getting the wrong reason on why they made it. Set an example from Canton.

  34. D wins games says: May 31, 2010 4:54 PM

    Read “Where Men Win Glory” and you will know for sure that Pat Tillman would NOT have wanted to go into the HOF for his service. While I am a huge fan of his, I must say this is a STUPID idea. Is Warrick Dunn going to go in because of all the great community service he has done? And do soldiers only go in if they get killed in action? Stay away from this slippery slope. HOF should stay for all time greats on the field!

  35. Beduin says: May 31, 2010 4:55 PM

    Ridiculous, Florio – you want it to be the Hall of Former NFL Players That We Like.
    Tillman needs to be remembered, and maybe Canton is the place (if it has any visitors) – but it’s in a special section for guys who made sacrifices or overcame adversity (Kevin Everett and his team of doctors, maybe?), not the section where you honor the guys who redefined the game by the way they played it.

  36. God's Own Silver and Blue says: May 31, 2010 4:55 PM

    When you hit-whore and post crap, I attack you like a starving dog attacks a soup bone, Mike. But I won’t in this case. Yeah, Tillman and other veterans deserve a place in the Football Hall of Fame, even if it’s strictly honorary in nature.

  37. Mike_in_Texas says: May 31, 2010 4:55 PM

    He should be in the Hall of Fame..
    Army Hall of Fame..
    He sucked as a football player and played for the AZ Cardinals.. nobody knew him until his death..
    Sad but true

  38. FloriosPhillyFan says: May 31, 2010 4:56 PM

    He’s a true war hero, but the Pro Football Hall of Fame is for those who played the game for years and years, and truly stood out a gems. As much as I respect Tillman and everything he did, I have to disagree.

  39. We need linemen says: May 31, 2010 4:56 PM

    Sorry, no. The Hall of Fame is meant to be a place where great football players are commemorated. Pat Tilman’s name belongs on a war memorial, alongside his brothers in arms. A far greater honour and a more fitting one.
    Tillman, did a laudable thing. He served his country. However, I find the insinuation that his sacrifice so much more poignant than anyone else who has died in the service of their country offensive.
    Tillman isn’t unique. Plenty of soldiers have given up careers considerably easier and more lucrative than the one they would have in the military. Moreover, whilst there are many in the military who had no better option, perhaps even no alternative, to joining up their service is no less valuable. Their deaths no less tragic.

  40. green man says: May 31, 2010 4:57 PM

    WTF?
    No f’in way in hell. Yeah great, he served our country and paid the ultimate price but so have thousands of others and he is no more important than anyone of them. This placing him on a pedestal because he left a better job than the other soldiers is stupid.
    Great guy, meh football player.
    The dumbest argument you ever made Florio and that’s saying a lot…

  41. Wukong says: May 31, 2010 4:57 PM

    Sorry, but no, he shouldn’t. The name of the institution is the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not “Hey, this guy happened to play football then died”.
    Also, the circumstances around Tillman’s death were and continue to be weird. While the official story is “friendly fire”, there are been rumors for years that it was less an accident and more Tillman’s fellow troops getting fed up with his loud and avowed atheism. Not saying I believe that, just saying it’s been said by more than one person.

  42. edgy1957 says: May 31, 2010 4:58 PM

    Mike, the HOF already shows his uniform in an exhibit that they call “Pro Football and the American Spirit: the NFL and the U.S. Armed Forces” so he’s already there. Putting Tillman in by himself STRICTLY based on his service would be a disservice to the other players that served and died long before Tillman was on his way to Afghanistan.

  43. E.A.D. says: May 31, 2010 5:01 PM

    “305phinphan says: May 31, 2010 4:24 PM
    I don’t know that many people that would make the sacrifice that Tillman made. While I appreciate everything that our men and women in the service do for this country, for Tillman to be a multi millionaire, join the Navy Seals,…. ”
    Tillman was an Army Ranger, not a NAVY SEAL. Huge difference; SEALS are several notches above Rangers…

  44. Bech72 says: May 31, 2010 5:03 PM

    It is the PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME; not the Well, this guy has a great story and should be looked up to hall of fame. Tillman did sacrifice an NFL career and ultimately his life for something he believed in, but that doesn’t earn him the right to be enshrined. I don’t see why this is even a debate.

  45. packman4 says: May 31, 2010 5:05 PM

    sniperhare your Iraq comments are typical delusion you sound like a Pro War Republican!
    Liberated them from a dictator……but the President said it was all about terrorism?!
    Did the Iraqis want you to blow the shit out of their cities?
    Oh and remember The Red Cross symbol is for a charity not a bomb here target!
    I do like the hypocriscy of an unelected President (Bush) out to rid the world of unelected regimes!

  46. Tomthebombtracy says: May 31, 2010 5:06 PM

    The HOF already recognizes writers/media in a certain area. And there has been recent discussions about recognizing scouts/assistant coaches. Someone even suggested kickers/punters as a separate group.
    I suppose you could make a case for military. If so Tillman would be honored but the first guy there would/should be Rocky Bleier, wounded in Vietnam, fought his way back (“Fighting Back” was the book and movie about him) and was important player on those 4 70s era Steelers wins as Robin to Franco’s Batman.

  47. DanSnyder says: May 31, 2010 5:07 PM

    Florio I don’t think you realize how making dumb arguments like this can actually turn people away from someone. The tillman story is both a nice and sad story but if you are saying players can get into the hall for what they did off the field/didnt do on it then I hope you are never given a vote for AP, HOF, any type of sports voting.
    Writing crap like this only makes sensible people retaliate with somewhat negative comments in response. Not to down someone like Tillman because they don’t like him but you force them to argue their point which they had no plan on doing until you brought up this dumb idea.
    Great guy, good football player and a terrible thing that happened but to suggest he should be in the Hall of fame is like me saying Sean Taylor should be in the hall because he was killed inside his home while protecting his family from intruders. Was a much better player on the field as well but according to you that isn’t much of a deciding factor.

  48. Wardo says: May 31, 2010 5:09 PM

    No no no on the hall.
    “Despite doing what he did, Tillman was still a pretty big asshole in Afghanistan to the point where his squad members absolutely despised him, but alrighty then.”
    Thank you and I believe it, he was nothing but a glory hound. Everything he did screamed look at me!!! (please???) The guy couldn’t even get a haircut without turning it into another look at me story while he was in the league.

  49. kingmj4891 says: May 31, 2010 5:12 PM

    As far as enshrinment Pat Tillman does not have the stats. But he did leave a lasting impact on the game and America for what he did. I think an award or memerial to him housed at the HOF in canton is right and he deserves it but without offically enshrining him.

  50. monomach says: May 31, 2010 5:16 PM

    This is a pretty bad idea. Pat Tillman wasn’t even an average player. It’s not called “The Hall of Nice Guys.”

  51. football genius says: May 31, 2010 5:18 PM

    no way in hell, not even close. Just because he was killed doesn’t mean he should get into the HOF. That would compromise it for others.

  52. Bob Nelson says: May 31, 2010 5:19 PM

    If the league refuses to acknowledge off the field arrests and bad citizenship…..
    is it fair to reward those with great character and great off the field accomplishments??
    You can’t have it both ways.
    While I would like to see OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor thrown out and Pat Tillman put in the Hall of Fame.
    The NFL likes the image of OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor as role models and not the image of Pat Tillman.
    What a messed up and sick view of life by the NFL and shame on them.

  53. gasolinej says: May 31, 2010 5:20 PM

    The hall is for great football talent. Pat Tillman is an american hero. That’s why he got the purple heart and the silver star. If you want to posthumously give him one of those “man of the year” awards, go ahead and do it. Don’t pretend he’s one of the all time great football players, though.

  54. funi says: May 31, 2010 5:21 PM

    As a retired vet, no way should Tillman be in HOF. He was average at best in NFL and only known for going into the service then getting killed by his own allies! I live in Az and a Cards fan, he can go to the Cardinals ring of honor but no way to the HOF.

  55. vanhelsing says: May 31, 2010 5:33 PM

    well pat figured out the wars are the rich man’s game; whilst the likes of you and i get to go fight.
    if the other guy couldnt take it, why was he in?
    i would wager one of our so-called allies made sure he got shot, after he made a public statement about the war. they are all inside jobs or put-up jobs, so to speak.
    if it was all about terrorism… where is OBL?
    drill here. and quit forcing all to drill offshore. foreign countries are getting into places we should be drilling, closer to home. and other foreigners make money off the oil we buy… while nobody here gets to…
    and while the establishment maintains open borders, fighting them over there means we still get to fight them over here. who benefits from open borders – it isnt just rich guys who like cheap and easily deportable labor… it is also those who always benefit by @#$%ing up host countries. in fact, it is primarily those culture wreckers who benefit, because they always have another place to escape to.
    invade the world, invite the world… and a la the chinese holding all our paper, be in hock to the world. that is american foreign policy, folks. amd it isnt very american, if youse think about it. and wasnt osamabama going to end all the war biz…
    unfortunately, pat does not belong in the hof.

  56. Bazooka Joe says: May 31, 2010 5:35 PM

    sniperhare says:
    May 31, 2010 4:44 PM
    Screw you Bazooka Joe, we fought terrorists in Afghanistan and liberated the people of Iraq from an evil dictator.
    Wrong, you stuck your nose in someone else’s business. You bullied an inferior country and ignored the Afghans and are ignoring North Korea out of fear.
    Screw yall. A bunch of baby killin bullies.

  57. PirateFreedom says: May 31, 2010 5:40 PM

    A football hall of fame is no place to commemorate a soldiers sacrifice.
    He died a soldier, like many of his brothers in arms have, to remember him as football player now is an insult to him and them.

  58. chhutson27 says: May 31, 2010 5:41 PM

    @ packman4
    I fail to see how Bush was unelected. Have you heard of something called the electoral college? It elects the President. That’s how the government works. It elected our current President 2 years ago. And guess what, it will do the same thing in 2 more years. He may sound like a Pro War Republican, you sound like a first rate idiot that doesn’t know how the government works.
    @hotep999 – Politics doesn’t matter to the soldiers. Politics is something that people not fighting debate. There are politics behind every single war that goes on. That doesn’t mean that our soldiers agree with it. They did a good thing over there.
    Players who leave the game to serve should be honored in their own place, but not in the Hall of Fame. The Hall is for on the field achievements, which is why O.J. is there, and why Ray Lewis will be there.

  59. simple_simon1 says: May 31, 2010 5:53 PM

    I refuse to write anything bad about the guy. He stopped short a career and when to fight a war because he thought it was right. He may have great character for doing something he strongly believes in but it’s not about thatg to get into the HOF. If it was, the United Way should be endorsing many, many NFL players to be in there. He made the ultimate sacrifice. Lets leave it at that.

  60. Onderin says: May 31, 2010 5:54 PM

    I agree with the folks that say he shouldn’t be in the HOF. Makes no sense. Leaving the game was of his own choice. Something he personally felt he needed to do. You don’t honor someone in your fraternity of accomplishment (the HOF), for actions he did in another field (the military). If his body of work on the field isn’t there, then he shouldn’t be.
    I’m seriously frustrated how many times Pat Tillman’s name comes up. It’s become more of a ploy for views than it is to genuinely honor the person. It’s about as guaranteed a topic to come up as Brett Favre’s return, yet the obvious answer is repeated over and over (ie yes Tillman is a good man for serving his country. Yes Brett Favre is coming back). Why rehash subjects are already known conclusions?
    And barring people from the HOF for off the field problems and adding some to the HOF for off the field services is completely different. Off the field misconduct should only be factored in if it directly had an affect on the games week to week (ie steroids, gambling etc).

  61. TheWizard says: May 31, 2010 5:57 PM

    I would say no on the Hall, simply because Tillman is of much better character than many of those enshrined there.
    Those of you who would disparage Tillman on Memorial Day are beyond scum.
    May God have mercy on you.
    I wouldn’t.

  62. Mrsteve says: May 31, 2010 6:09 PM

    I bet that kid who got his jaw broke by Tillman when he sucker punched him would not agree he was such a good guy.

  63. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 6:10 PM

    I have never been more proud of the PFT world. Almost everybody used good logic in arguing Florio’s nonsensical idea. I think all of us should go into the hall of fame.

  64. Jon Evans says: May 31, 2010 6:12 PM

    “E.A.D. says: May 31, 2010 5:01 PM
    Tillman was an Army Ranger, not a NAVY SEAL. Huge difference; SEALS are several notches above Rangers…”
    yea, in the water. I’ll take a Ranger over a Seal any day in mountain/land combat. :p

  65. Stone says: May 31, 2010 6:14 PM

    Listen, Pat Tillman was an incredible human being, he was a leader of men and a true role model for anyone. However, saying he should be in the HOF is an emotional argument that I can’t agree with. He didn’t enough or long enough on the field to warrant a placement in the Hall.

  66. Nymkosis says: May 31, 2010 6:16 PM

    BazookaJoe-Italianarmyguy or better known as the ambiguously gay-duo! I spit on you! Keep you petty ass HOF to your stupid asses! Tilman deserves to be honored in a more respectible manner than your so called HOF! It’s pretty clear by your comments that your world is the size of a football field, and that’s the only world you know. What contributions has he done? He gave up his life you worthless coward, his contribution is greater than the one your mom made to this world when she spread her legs open to let your sorry little ass into this world. You should be visiting every war memorial in the U.S. and get on your knees and thank all those who have fallen, in the past wars or in todays wars. Because your mom wouldn’t have had the chance to spread her ass to be pounded! Italian Army, WTF is that? I wouldn’t be to proud of that, hell I’d keep it a secret if I were you because that’s embaressing plain and simple.

  67. Treezs says: May 31, 2010 6:17 PM

    Florio’s boss wanted an article about how amazing America is – tear jerker for extra credit. CBS needs that White House interview, and Florio sucking on tailpipe gets them some brownie points.

  68. hey-seuss says: May 31, 2010 6:19 PM

    Puff Puff Pass that Michael Florio…and sit the next couple of innings out. You are a horses ass.

  69. JimmyY says: May 31, 2010 6:19 PM

    With a name like Bazooka Joe you probably BLOW bubble gum in your basement with your MOM, you pussy. I dare you to make those statements to someone in uniform who, believe it or not, is making those commitments so you can be the pussy you are. If it was one of your family killed in 9/11 or other terrorists acts how would you feel? Wars are not nice no, but what then, do whatever the hell they like to us whenever they want. Pussy, you don’t like it here get the F out and go live there, I freaking dare you punk.

  70. TryTheVeal says: May 31, 2010 6:22 PM

    I look at it this way……Being in the professional football HOF or not, no way tarnishes or embellishes the legacy of any veteran who fought, sacrificed, and stood up for this country….It makes no difference whatsoever…They are the true heros….You can’t compare life to a game….

  71. DirtDawg55 says: May 31, 2010 6:23 PM

    Millions of men and women have made this sacrifice. Millions. When people start asking the incredibly stupid question of “who else would make this sacrifice” we need to immediately think of all the men and women who volunteer to serve their great country. Walking away from a multi-million dollar contract does not make him a greater hero than anyone else who volunteers for service in the armed forces around the world.
    The Hall of Fame is not about personal accomplishments of people who happened to play football. If it was Heath Shuler could make it in. And certainly it wouldn’t be without Joe Delaney (drowned trying to save three children), or Bob Kalsu (killed in action during the Vietnam War) or even Damien Nash (died after a charity basketball game).
    Could one argue for a place in the Hall of Fame to recognize people like this? Yes. But do they belong in the Hall of Fame itself? No.

  72. Real Vikings fans wouldn't cheer for Favre says: May 31, 2010 6:25 PM

    if he deserves to be in the football hall-of-fame then Tom Brady deserves the silver star and purple heart.
    The two are not related at all!! WTF???

  73. tdowdy11 says: May 31, 2010 6:28 PM

    As the son of a military veteran and grandson of a WWII veteran, I admire Tillman for his selfless act and desire to serve his country. However if he hadn’t died, no one would be admiring his honor and courage. They simply would have said he was a great american and an above average football player.
    He died, and to his family and friends it is a loss greater than can be put into words. If they wanted to blame the government for the war, they have that right, but they knew he was going into the service and the risk that was there. Tragic in how he died and THAT he died. But you don’t make it in the HOF for your off the field deeds, just like players like OJ and Michael Irvin aren’t out of the HOF for their stupid off the field deeds.
    I agree if the HOF wants to honor men who fought and died in the service who played professional football prior to being in the military, I think that would be a great gesture. But I can’t believe that it’s even up for consideration that Tillman is a HOFer simply because he voluntarily gave up his career for a gun and an american flag.

  74. Occam says: May 31, 2010 6:30 PM

    packman4 says: “”What next a stadium vendor who went out to war and died. …..But its different for me as an Englishman we have different values of heroism.”
    You seem to have different values of similitude as well.

  75. InnocentCriminal says: May 31, 2010 6:34 PM

    @TheWizard
    Who’s saying anything disparaging about the guy? All we’re saying is that he doesnt have the chops to be in the FOOTBALL HoF. He’s a great man, and what happened to him is terrible. But he’s not a HoFer.
    The only way I could see his military service counting is if he was one of those guys who is outstanding that never won a title. A guy who everyone is on the fence about going in. Kinda like Kurt Warner (I know he won a title but he lost 2.) His off the field contributions should give him that little extra edge to get him in ALONG with outstanding play in a good deal of his career. (Even though he sucked in NY and Ari in the beginning.)
    BTW, There is no God.

  76. iusedtobeteddybayer says: May 31, 2010 6:34 PM

    And to think that Senator John McCain is from Pat’s state…and has done nothing — NOTHING during the six Congressional investigations of murder, malfeasance, more Bush lies about the war…nothing. McCain is the ultimate whore.
    I am comfortable with Pat Tillman being in the Hall of Fame. I said it before and I’ll say it again: F-the sportswriters and their pretend criteria. It’s not the “Hall of Statistics”, it’s the Hall of “Fame”. Pat Tillman is famous for a whole lot of reasons.
    One last story, true story: during Pat’s rookie Cardinal season, Tobin was the Head Coach. Remember, Pat was probably only drafted because Jake Plummer was the Cards 1st rounder and might have nudged someone taken as the 226th pick in the draft, Pat felt the need to impress. Well, Tobin on the news one night, had to explain why he told Pat to “scale it back”. Pat was such a beast, he’d go 100% every play — every single playand Tobin was such an idiot, he didn’t know how to handle Pat.
    That’s the thing about Pat Tillman: no one knew how to “handle” him. Pat Tillman IS the Hall of Fame. Maybe not so much while O. J. still resides there but in a perfect world, that whore McCain loses the election and Pat Tillman goes into the HOF.

  77. dickmac says: May 31, 2010 6:42 PM

    If Pat Tillman belongs in the HOF, how about Bob Kalsu. of the Buffalo Bills? He was killed in another unpopular war which was fueled by politics.

  78. Bell63 says: May 31, 2010 6:42 PM

    They should definitely have a memorial for Tillman at the Hall (if they don’t already), but I don’t think they should induct him.

  79. philyeagles5 says: May 31, 2010 6:44 PM

    although he doesnt deserve a bust, he should be honored in some way in Canton so he is never forgotten.

  80. leevi says: May 31, 2010 6:48 PM

    UMMMMMM this article is pointless….. Obviously the writer has never been to the HOF….Pat Tillman is already honored in the HOF…he has his own glass case with his Military dress uniform in it along side his cardinals uniform.
    That’s exactly what should and HAS been done. He does not deserve to be in the HOF as a player considering what the HOF means as a player on the field.

  81. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 6:53 PM

    @Iusedtobeteddybayer
    So by your clearly well thought out logic, fame is what should get people into the hall? Well there goes every offensive linemen and 2/3 of defensive players. Reggie Bush is a household name, should he get in?
    Whats scary is you typed a lot so you clearly tried your hardest in making this argument, you just aren’t that bright.

  82. JustRay says: May 31, 2010 6:56 PM

    Bazooka Joe, first off Tillman died in Afghanistan not Iraq. And Im pretty sure that war started when al-Qaede bombed the USS Cole back in Oct 2000. Oh and let not forget about 911. So to say the war was brought on by the President (which I didnt vote for) is just childish. And no Tillman does not belong in the HOF.

  83. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 6:56 PM

    @iusedtobeteddybayer
    Also regarding your story: Pat Tillman broke a FB’s leg ending his career going “100% on every play.” Clearly he went low as well.
    BTW I also hate McCain. I just don’t want you to think my critique of your comments is politically fueled.

  84. JimmyMac says: May 31, 2010 7:06 PM

    Jackie Robinsons numbers are not impressive….but the #42 is retired and he’s in the hall of fame. Why is that????

  85. OpalJelli says: May 31, 2010 7:15 PM

    I don’t thiiink that Rocky Bleier is in the Hall of Fame, but not only did he serve our country with honors, he also kicked ass on the field:
    “After playing just one season with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Robert “Rocky” Bleier was drafted into the Army and sent off to Vietnam. While on patrol in 1969, Bleier’s platoon was ambushed and his right leg was impaled by flying shrapnel. Although doctors told him he would never play football again, Bleier, who had been awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze Star was inspired by a personal note from Steelers owner Art Rooney and reported to training camp just one year later. He spent two years trying to regain a spot on the active roster, finally achieving his goal and becoming a starter in 1974. When he retired in 1980, Bleier had 3,865 rushing yards, 1,294 receiving yards, 25 touchdowns and four Super Bowl championships to his credit.”

  86. C-Student says: May 31, 2010 7:15 PM

    this article was probably one of the most shameful ones i’ve ever read on this site.
    tillman didn’t do anything that any other service member hasn’t done. there may not be a whole lot of them, but he’s not the first to walk away from a lucrative career to join the service.
    i’m not taking away anything from him. he did an honorable thing. but he’s not any more of a hero than any other soldier. he paid the ultimate price and we appreciate that.
    as far as football, had he played an entire nfl career, he wouldn’t have been good enough of a player to earn his way to canton.
    i think you posted this and exploited tillman just to get clicks and start conversation on a slow day. you cant honestly believe that he belongs in canton.
    and this is coming from a vet. shame shame shame florio

  87. Dave says: May 31, 2010 7:20 PM

    “he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that? ”
    “Third, he was in a bullshit war brought on by a U.S. President with the brain the size of a peanut.”
    You know he died in Afghanistan, not Iraq right? How did Bush, who was in office less than 9 moths bring on 9/11 and how is it 100% politics? We were attacked by them. What, were we just supposed to let them get away with that? Screw you both.

  88. j0hnny63 says: May 31, 2010 7:22 PM

    WTF, no.
    It’s a hall of fame for FOOTBALL. Football is what gets you there. The O.J. editorial as well as this one are completely ass-backward and, frankly, dumb.

  89. Johnnyb612 says: May 31, 2010 7:24 PM

    The hall of fame is not even close to matching the sacrafice this man made for his country.

  90. tinopuno says: May 31, 2010 7:29 PM

    # sniperhare says: May 31, 2010 4:44 PM
    Screw you Bazooka Joe, we fought terrorists in Afghanistan and liberated the people of Iraq from an evil dictator.
    —————————————————————-
    And discovered many Weapons Of Mass Destruction that threatened our safety here in the US….Oh Wait!

  91. GBfanForever says: May 31, 2010 7:30 PM

    Pat Tillman should be in the hall. The HOF isn’t called the “hall of greatest players” it’s called the hall of fame. I think he embodies everything that a man should strive to be; humble, courageous, intellectually curious and ultimately honest. Honest to himself and to his family and friends. I wish more Americans would follow his example, albeit not necessarily by serving in the military. That said, I’m sure many previous NFL players served in combat in Vietnam/Korea/WWII under less heralded circumstances. I would support a special section in the hall about players who fought in wars.

  92. raynman49 says: May 31, 2010 7:38 PM

    Great man, not a great football player!

  93. bobby3939 says: May 31, 2010 7:41 PM

    What the %$^&&
    This is “Hall of Fame”, so you need to show greatness on the field. I have great respect for him having courage and convictions, but that’s another story or trophy.
    Some of the greatest players of all time never would have made the hall if “character” was a requirement.
    Keep Memorial Day Memorial Day, and keep football football.
    Tea-baggers…get over yourself…you’re the problem not the solution.

  94. bobby3939 says: May 31, 2010 7:44 PM

    …and keep in mind, his sacrifice was wasted. He was killed by his own. I think we need to call this out and never forget the incident, but not in the Fottball Hall of Fame….
    Get a grip…

  95. kishcollageit says: May 31, 2010 7:48 PM

    If he did for football and Country like these men did for Baseball and Country!
    Ernie Banks
    Jackie Robinson
    Hank Greenberg
    Joe DiMaggio
    Stan Musial
    Ted Williams
    Ty Cobb
    Willie Mays

  96. RichieBugs83 says: May 31, 2010 7:55 PM

    The Hall of Fame is not relevant to what Pat Tillman did. As a player he was above average, as a man, he was clearly exceptional. Rest easy Pat, thank you for what you stood for, and I am ashamed of how our Government, and our ARMY failed you and yours.
    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY

  97. Bazooka Joe says: May 31, 2010 7:57 PM

    Johnnyb612 says:
    May 31, 2010 7:24 PM
    The hall of fame is not even close to matching the sacrafice this man made for his country.
    What sacrifice? He was shot by his own men. Maybe he said something about their mommas. You crackers need to get a life and a clue.

  98. RaiderRedleg says: May 31, 2010 8:03 PM

    Good post Florio…Leave it to you to generate traffic from a guy who died so we could have the freedom to check out your website!
    BTW…If ANYONE gets put into the HOF for death in combat the FIRST guy should be Bob Kalsu:
    FROM Wikipedia:
    James Robert “Bob” Kalsu (April 13, 1945–July 21, 1970) was an All-American tackle at the University of Oklahoma and an eighth-round draft pick by the Buffalo Bills of the American Football League in 1968.
    Kalsu was a starting guard in 1968. He played the entire season and was the Bills’ team rookie-of-the-year. Following the 1968 season, to satisfy his Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC) obligation, he entered the Army as a Second Lieutenant and arrived in Vietnam in November 1969 as part of the 101st Airborne Division. He was killed in action on July 21, 1970 when his unit came under enemy mortar fire at FSB Ripcord near the A Shau Valley. His family, out of respect, refused to talk in detail about the circumstances surrounding his death.
    Lieutenant Kalsu had one child, a daughter named Jill. At home in Oklahoma City, his wife, Jan Kalsu, gave birth to his son, James Robert Kalsu Jr., on July 23. Mrs. Kalsu was informed of her husband’s death only hours later. Kalsu was the only recently active professional football player to lose his life in the Vietnam War.
    Kalsu and Tillman represents the best of our country…Whatever the war or whether is it “just” or not, we owe them (and everyone else that died for our country) a huge debt.

  99. polakojones says: May 31, 2010 8:03 PM

    no…he shouldn’t

  100. bcb171 says: May 31, 2010 8:05 PM

    Most of you people dont understand the undertones of florios statements or the reasons. Many of you have to seriously think before you talk. Florio is an idiot and a hypocrite. Its the first step in understanding his opinion pieces.

  101. Any Given Sunday says: May 31, 2010 8:08 PM

    The HOF is a building. Canton is a city. There are other ways to honor him in Canton. Name a street or building if you want. Its amazing to hear people who are not Veterans, say things that others died to allow them to say and then disrespect them. Amazing at this day and age. On memorial day, if you are not a Veteran or havent been in a war, feel free to keep your piss-ant opinion to yourself. I hope the site cleans up these comments.

  102. steely devil hab says: May 31, 2010 8:08 PM

    If anyone remembers Nam, they called it Fragging…

  103. Tomthebombtracy says: May 31, 2010 8:08 PM

    No athlete can ever match the combination of athletic excellence and public serve achieved by Ted Williams of the Boston Red Sox.
    He had his career interrupted by WWII and Korea and he wasn’t selling war bonds, he was flying fighter planes in combat.

  104. theravenlives2 says: May 31, 2010 8:12 PM

    he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    It’s something called setting an example, standing up for what you believe in, and living for something greater than yourself.
    Since you’re obviously a liberal, I know these principles are totally foreign to you. You’re dismissed to do what you and your leftist breathren always do…live for you and only you and the hell with everyone else.

  105. weavedawg74 says: May 31, 2010 8:15 PM

    As a soldier I personally believe that CPL Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame. The HoF is used to remember players that shed positive light upon the NFL. What better way than to leave a career in the NFL and die for your country. He is a far better representative of the NFL than scumbags like O.J. Simpson and Lawrence Taylor. You want famous players, not infamous criminals.
    As for the circumstances surrounding his death, they are irrelevent, the fact of the matter is that he went to a war zone (a place that most of you pansies simply don’t have the balls to go to) and died to defend his country.
    Remember especially on Memorial Day that the only reason you can go to games on Sundays, or have a Hall of Fame , or even have the damn right to come on here and piss and moan about who can go into the Hall of Fame or not is because of men and women like Pat Tillman and my wife go to war and fight for that right. This lifestyle you have is thanks to the people that have died to defend it. Soldiers may not entertain you on the weekends, but we keep you alive.
    PFC Weaverling, Andrew
    “When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she’s dating a pussy”
    – General Tommy Franks

  106. SonsCompass says: May 31, 2010 8:19 PM

    If you want to see a sign of the times, read some of these posts. I quit reading somewhere near the top because they were mostly idiotic posts hating on AMERICAN SOLDIERS. You can agree or disagree with this war, but you CANNOT disagree that just the mere presence of our military keeps you safe, so that you can sit safely in your living room spewing hatred toward the troops that seems to reek of jealousy. For the record, Tillman joined at a time when the motives behind this war seemed clear. Also, as a correction, he was not a Navy Seal. He was a US Army Ranger. Also, someone said that getting killed was “part of his duty”?? You sir, are a dip****.

  107. iusedtobeteddybayer says: May 31, 2010 8:20 PM

    this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 6:53 PM
    @Iusedtobeteddybayer
    So by your clearly well thought out logic, fame is what should get people into the hall? Well there goes every offensive linemen and 2/3 of defensive players. Reggie Bush is a household name, should he get in?
    Whats scary is you typed a lot so you clearly tried your hardest in making this argument, you just aren’t that bright.

    Reply:
    Yes, “this class sucks”, that’s what I meant: Reggie Bush should be in the Hall of Fame. Not.
    You’re a douchebag. Actually, you’d have to come up a couple of levels to BE a douchebag. Isn’t it called The Hall of Fame? Why, yes, it is. Go back to the basement, get baked and call people names, and don’t forget to thank your mother for the free rent and cookies.

  108. Cereal Blogger says: May 31, 2010 8:29 PM

    No chance Tillman belongs in the HOF. He wouldnt even want to be inducted, its not the kind of person he was. If he didnt earn it on the football field, he wouldnt want to be inducted. Read John John Krakauer’s book, great stuff
    RichieBugs83 – well said sir !

  109. Occam says: May 31, 2010 8:30 PM

    “if he deserves to be in the football hall-of-fame then Tom Brady deserves the silver star and purple heart.”
    Tom Brady deserves a Silver Star for being handsome and the Purple Heart for knowing the greatest, toughest QB ever.

  110. Allied Biscuit says: May 31, 2010 8:34 PM

    Johnnyb612: bingo.

  111. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 8:38 PM

    @Any Given Sunday
    That is that stupid attitude I was talking about. If you aren’t in the military or are a veteran your opinion is completely void? An earlier poster said that Florio has put us in a position where we have to argue agains’t a veteran. It sucks but its true. Get over your self. Pat Tillman has been honored plenty. He isn’t the only person who died for a cause he believed in. Like I said earlier, going into the military doesn’t automatically make you a hero. It also doesn’t make your opinion on football matters any more valid.

  112. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 8:42 PM

    @Dave
    I don’t want to get political but you said we were attacked by them? Who is them? No country attacked us, and more than one country harbors terrorists. I am not saying I am for or agains’t either war. I am just saying you are a stupid person to think either war was some sort of revenge for 9/11.

  113. ncskinsfan says: May 31, 2010 8:43 PM

    “Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame”
    Pat Tillman IS in the Hall of Fame. Canton has done an excellent job of honoring him in two exhibits in the Hall.

  114. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 8:45 PM

    @JimmyMac
    We are talking about the football HOF. The MLB HOF is very different. It (wrongfully) puts an emphasis on off the field stuff. It also lets way more people in than it should in my opinion. Although Jackie Robinson’s numbers are much better than your post would have people think. He is on par with other 2nd basemen in the MLB HOF. His number is retired for obvious reasons, but that has nothing to do with football.

  115. nicalooch76 says: May 31, 2010 8:51 PM

    Bazooka Joe says:
    May 31, 2010 4:24 PM
    So, he should be in the hall of fame, because some moronic American soldiers accidentally killed him?
    First of all, he was not that good of a player.
    Second, soldiers getting killed is a part of their duty. So what contributions have he made besides doing his job? None.
    Third, he was in a bullshit war brought on by a U.S. President with the brain the size of a peanut.
    Sorry, but no tear gets shed here. And no HOF vote either.
    —————————————————————————————————-
    Tell us how you really feel. If you have some kind of beef with the military or our gov’t, feel free to leave because we don’t want you anyway.
    Next, to say that dying for our nation is part of our “duty”? That is beyond an insult to anyone who proudly wears the uniform and every family member who lost a loved one because according to you, it was their job.
    I have seen firsthand the good that we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq, and I wish the clueless, ignorant pieces of garbage like you would just put a sock in it.
    Take your political poon-aches to fox news or something. I actually respected your opinion until you ran off on this dumb tangent.
    Mike, If the hall wants to create a display of ALL football players who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our nation, I’m all for it. I disagree with Spc. Tillman being inducted while other veterans are left out. Pat was a great man and gets all the respect in the world from me, but others have sacrificed just as much. Great article though on Memorial Day

  116. smithopher says: May 31, 2010 8:59 PM

    How many people have gotten into the Hall of Fame have used steroids? I mean, to me, I’d rather see a player who played well for a couple of years and did something great with his life get in than see a linebacker who was juiced up most of his career waltz on into Canton. This day and age, we’re facing so many character issues with players. Whether you agree with the war or not, the man was brave and went to combat for his country. The bottom line was our government was sending soldiers overseas, and Tillman was brave enough to stand up and fight along side his countrymen. He turned down his NFL payday to go. He obviously stood by his morals, whether anybody else agreed with them or not. Tillman deserves to be in somebody’s Hall of Fame.

  117. TSR3000 says: May 31, 2010 8:59 PM

    LT (gmen) should be in not Tillman. See the point?
    It is about on field performance. Nothing else.
    Pat Tillman is a hero but not a HOFer. Another swing n a miss, Florio.

  118. 46&2 says: May 31, 2010 9:02 PM

    tillman wouldnt have wanted to be in the hall of fame. he didnt want any praise for his actions. he felt it was duty. he didnt think he was doing anything special. he wouldnt have wanted the “Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza” at the stadium either.

  119. GRID says: May 31, 2010 9:07 PM

    I thought the Pro Football Hall of Fame had a section dedicated to former players who served or died in the military.

  120. FoF says: May 31, 2010 9:12 PM

    # hotep999 says: May 31, 2010 4:20 PM:
    “he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that?”
    Another libtard idiot. First of all he died in Afghanistan, who harbored Bin Laden. You know, the guy who orchestrated 9/11. The war is 100% justified. Secondly, despite how he died he was very honorable and made a great sacrifice to the nation. He gave up millions to serve his country. Not only that, he did it at great risk on the front lines.
    Have a happy Memorial Day. Remember, there are hundreds of thousands other service men and woman just like Tillman who will put their lives on the line to protect your right to make a fool of yourself on an internet message board.

  121. pugdog1228 says: May 31, 2010 9:14 PM

    A true American hero, he belong’s in the American hall of fame. The man is a Hero, on and off the field. Who would give up millions to risk thier lives? He is the embodiement of Courage and Character. He and his family deserve every accolade we can give them, especially since he didn’t have to die, “friendly” fire. An epic trajedy.

  122. FoF says: May 31, 2010 9:18 PM

    “In England a lot of our troops are troubled teenagers who are basically kids who have no futures outside the prison system.
    Does the fact they are forced to serve make them heroes??”
    I think you are pretty ignorant of your own military, I’ve met many soldiers and airman for the UK and none of there were “right out of jail”. As a matter of fact, they were all pretty well off.
    But to answer your question, what makes them heroes is that they signed up for a job that may require them to lay their own lives on the line. And they don’t even get paid anything extra for that.

  123. norton99 says: May 31, 2010 9:18 PM

    Speaking as a veteran and a football fan I emphatically vote ………………NO!

  124. oxycode30 says: May 31, 2010 9:19 PM

    Tillman doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame unless every player who lost his life is also granted an automatic entrance and that would be absurd. Personally I don’t think off-field behavior should count one iota positive or negative when it comes to the Hall of Fame and to start making exceptions cheapens it. The bottom line is that Tillman was not Hall of Fame material before he was the victim of a strange friendly fire episode and does not merit entrance. The highly unusual circumstances of his death and its aftermath however do merit a full and independent investigation unlike the whitewash/coverup it did receive.

  125. FoF says: May 31, 2010 9:23 PM

    Lots of ignorant people here. The Military is hardly a place anymore for people who have nowhere else to turn. Check out the 2010 Military pay charts (google it). There are very few places where you can make more money come right out of high school. Throw in the benefits and they are way ahead of their peers. Same for most college graduate. Officer pay basically doubles over their first 4 years. Those who make a career of being a military officer, are actually making more then their peers in most career fields.

  126. bcb171 says: May 31, 2010 9:23 PM

    I think every person on this site should just completely stop rebuking bazooka joe’s comments. Pretend he doesnt exist, like a screaming 2 year old having a tantrum, that kind of thing. Obviously the guy is an uneducated racist idiot. And yes hes a black racist. Which seems to be more common on this site, as well as the real world, which he likely hasnt experienced yet.

  127. TheToolofTools says: May 31, 2010 9:24 PM

    the fact that he was killed by friendly fire that the military tried to cover up will keep him out. They want to bury his memory with the body so the story goes away.

  128. jordanv says: May 31, 2010 9:25 PM

    He wasn’t a good person, he was a great person who stood for what he believed in. He wasn’t a great football player, he was a good football player..great guy, not a hall of fame football player!!

  129. brainsaw says: May 31, 2010 9:26 PM

    Hey Bazooka Joe, why don’t you join and straighten us out? Fix the problem from the inside? Gutless jackass.
    That aside, I respect Tillman as a fellow Soldier. I mourn his tragic death. But I don’t think Canton is the place to honor him. There are other venues that are more appropriate.

  130. SixburghSteelers says: May 31, 2010 9:28 PM

    Much respect to him considering I served in OIF I & II myself…but HOF, sorry Flo, not worthy IMHO.

  131. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 9:29 PM

    @theravenlives2
    I hate to get political but you aren’t that smart. You said liberals only live for themselves but liberals believe that tax dollars should be used for social programs. I am not saying that is right or wrong, but I am saying generalizing one group when there is an obvious and outspoken example to counter your point makes you look stupid. Thats like saying all republicans hate states rights. When it comes to politics (and most other things) generalizing is wrong and makes you look stupider than the person you insult.

  132. Jonathan Keenum says: May 31, 2010 9:39 PM

    Hall of Fame or not, Tillman is still a role-model for me. Take a moment today to at least think about what he and hundreds of thousands of others have done for this country, no matter where you stand on the issues.

  133. IndyColt45 says: May 31, 2010 9:39 PM

    No he shouldn’t. Just the same as LT shouldn’t be tossed out (only on field actions count), Tillman should be left out.
    Now, I am all for an exhibit at all of the various Halls for players who have served the country. They deserve to be singled out, but they are not Hall of Fame’ers out-of-hand.

  134. capetide says: May 31, 2010 9:45 PM

    To: hotep999 says:
    May 31, 2010 4:20 PM
    he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that?
    You are a disgrace.

  135. Rex Grossman says: May 31, 2010 9:47 PM

    The Hall of Fame is meaningless. What he did is much bigger than that.

  136. Franchise says: May 31, 2010 9:48 PM

    “So, yes, we believe that off-field conduct should matter.”
    What kind of BS is that? If that is the case, Michael Irvin shouldn’t be able to step foot in Canton.
    As much as I honor and respect what Tillman did, he isnt what I’d consider HoF material.

  137. irishcoolzombie says: May 31, 2010 9:50 PM

    Florio,
    You obviously have never served in the Military. You have now made yourself out to be a Joke! Pat Tillman is a Hero among those who served beside him. As a Veteran I feel that you have dishonered this man today. Please keep your “Tabloid CRAP to yourself” signed ….Those Who Serve and have Served!!!!!

  138. stevelikesthesteelers says: May 31, 2010 9:56 PM

    What Leevi said. They have a nice display of him already up in the hall of fame. I’d argue that most people will spend a lot more time looking at that display, than if he had his bust among the other guys.
    They already have the accurate tone of memorial for this guy in the Hall….perhaps guys like Florio and Collinsworth should actually visit the Pro Football Hall of Fame before writing/spouting off dumb op ed pieces.

  139. Newtrocknee says: May 31, 2010 9:58 PM

    Sorry, the HOF is for accomplishments on the field of play and on the field of play only. K.C. RB and 1978 rookie of the year Joe Delaney died while trying to save two drowning children, should he be in too? There’s NO reason at all why Tillman and every other US veteran involved with pro football can’t be honored AT the HOF, but inducting someone INTO the HOF can only be based upon their football career.
    Based upon everything I’ve ever read about the man, I doubt he’d want to gain HOF entry any other way other than through his on-field accomplishments. He could have joined the military and been a high-profile recruiter-type with a real soft gig but instead he wanted to be a real soldier so it’s not a stretch to believe he’d feel the same way about judging his career and talents if he’d been able to continue playing football.

  140. gyldenlove says: May 31, 2010 10:04 PM

    This went better than expected, must be heavily moderated.

  141. stevelikesthesteelers says: May 31, 2010 10:05 PM

    http://blacksportsonline.com/index/Tillman_Display_600.jpg
    He’s in there with a very nice display.

  142. NightTrainNeckTie says: May 31, 2010 10:10 PM

    Canton is home to the ProFootball Hall of Fame, not the American Hall of Fame. Tillman’s courageous sacfrice has no bearings on whether or not he is among the greatest players to ever play the game. That’s what the HOF is. A place to celebrate the “greatest players ever” not the best people. Get it straight everyone. I know commisioners and coaches and GM’s get in for impact on the game but it’s about being the greatest ever, not the nicest person.
    Put his Jersey on display with his story in a write up, that would honor him. BTW can anyone name, off the top of their heads, the NFL player who was killed in Vietnam? Why not put him in? Or Rocky Bleier, he came back and caught a freaking super bowl touchdown on half a foot, wheres an article vouching for him, Florio? Again, it’s the greatest to ever play. If we’re going to start that why don’t they begin enshirning all the players who were paralyzed while playing, Kevin Everette, Darrel Stingely, Mike Utley. Look what they actually sacrificed for the game, literally.

  143. BCGreg says: May 31, 2010 10:14 PM

    Maybe a section in the HOF to honor them, but they shouldn’t get a “bust” for their on field career. They were not the best of the best at their positions–refering to Kalsu and Tillman.
    LT should be the first one to be removed based on this argument!

  144. kookabura3 says: May 31, 2010 10:17 PM

    Why should he be in the hall of fame? He made his own personal decision, we should not be forced to put him in the Hall of Fame just because he is dead.

  145. bake says: May 31, 2010 10:27 PM

    I cannot believe what a bunch of s#$$bags a lot of you are, to denigrate Pat Tillman based on who was in the White House and your personal feelings about the war, or even to be sarcastic about how this young man lost his life. And many of you aren’t even right, calling him a Navy Seal when he was in the Army.
    But anyway, he has a large display honoring him at the Hall, and he should. But enshrinement, I am not sure I agree. There are displays there honoring him, Joe Foss, and many others who played and served, Rocky Bleier, etc.
    But enshrinement should be solely about the greatest players of all time, not anything else. OJ should stay in, Pat Tillman we love and respect, but not one of the greatest players of all time…..

  146. Jaydub says: May 31, 2010 10:30 PM

    The Pro Football HOF? No
    What he did was incredible, and I have the utmost respect for him and the decision he made, but Canton is not for military personnel lost in battle.

  147. stiller43 says: May 31, 2010 10:31 PM

    No effin way.
    I whole heartedly appreciate what he did, but he was an average safety without a long career and with no HOF stats (obviously)
    Should every effin player who served be in the HOF, or just the ones who met a tragic end? Reuben Droughns for HOF!!!!
    You’re articles are sometimes more ridiculous than your hair, Florio.

  148. this class sucks says: May 31, 2010 10:38 PM

    @stevelikesthesteelers
    I agree. You go through the actual display heads pretty quick and move on to the highlight machines then to the colorful displays.

  149. gls_F16 says: May 31, 2010 10:52 PM

    Bazooka Joe,
    Shame on you for not having respect for my brothers and sisters in the military. We make sacrifices every day for your freedom, including leaving our families for a year or more at a time. How dare you. Our military protects your right to make your outrageously distasteful comments. Thank you to all of my fellow servicemen for what you do.

  150. TOMAS says: May 31, 2010 10:53 PM

    No, he should not be in the HOF. For many people who don’t know better dead soldiers are heros. Saying that makes them feel better about the decisions they made in their lives. Tillman was brave, but bravery does not equal to credit for football Hall honors.
    Chris Collinsworth is a retarded prick. He is a good football anouncer/analyst and a great example of the “I don’t know about world affairs but I love to watch our military kick butt” crowd. These people think that every soldier is a hero when they die, but can care less about those who serve and then come home and try to make a life for themselves but can not get any support from the people who sent them to war in the first place much less the people who cheered such rediculous decisions. These people cheer grandstanding but decry legitamite military action (Kosovo). Tillman should be honored, maybe by the team he left, his hometown and/or the university he attended but not by the HOF.

  151. Randall says: May 31, 2010 10:58 PM

    Yeah, nice thought, but no.

  152. benniehifive says: May 31, 2010 11:10 PM

    what’s your deal Florio? why do you have such a raging hard on for turning the Pro Football Hall of Fame into the “guys who were ok football players and excellent role models” ? you started this website because it’s the game you love to watch and discuss with a passion. I don’t understand how you can want off-field issues to have any impact whatsoever on a persons enshrinement into the HoF…this shouldn’t even be a discussion! the fact that you have the ability to speak to so many people is great for you, but come on…FOOTBALL!!! everything that happens on that 120 x53 yard field is what gets taken into consideration when it comes time for enshrinement, nothing else!

  153. juggadore says: May 31, 2010 11:10 PM

    if he came back with a terrible limp and 1st-degree-crazy, we’d never think of him a hero. just a dumbass waste of space like we treat the others.
    dont be thick in front of me michael.

  154. God's Own Silver and Blue says: May 31, 2010 11:11 PM

    This is the first of two threads (the other is the Jay Feeley/immigration thread) that have gone political today. And considering that this is the slowest time of the year when it comes to real no shinola football news, I approve.

  155. troll_aikman8 says: May 31, 2010 11:16 PM

    Just the HOF?
    This guy should posthumously be elected Senator, league commissioner and anything else that is up for election.
    Pat Tillman is one of the greatest American’s of my lifetime. He could’ve been a 3rd string deep snapper, he’d still be more deserving than most people in the HOF. That said, he was an above average safety.

  156. OLDCRACKER says: May 31, 2010 11:20 PM

    I am a retired Army vet of over 30 yrs. Drafted in 1970, I’ve served in Vietnam, Korea, Panama and Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I too, was taken from a good job as a pressman for the Fairborn Daily Herald, in Ohio. I lost everything I had worked for. Whenever I traveled, I was greeted with protestors and name calling, especially at Love Field in Dallas, Tx. However, at no time did I question the politics that put me in those situations…I just did my job.
    I respect Tillman for giving up an NFL contract to serve his country but, from what I’ve heard, Tillman was a real ASS as a soldier. He was NOT a hero, he was killed by his own. That alone should tell you everything you need to know about his “service.”
    As a football player he was average to above average, at best. He does not belong in the NFL HoF.
    Oh, and the “Seals” are for seamen too dumb to learn a technical skill, and too smart to be a Marine rifleman! (Gotta love them Leathernecks.) Go – Airborne! :)

  157. IAVikefan says: May 31, 2010 11:30 PM

    A few thoughts being a soldier, and Iraq veteran-
    Football is just a f—n game. Leave the HOF to people who get overpaid to play a f—n game.
    All you idiots who want to call us baby killers, know this: we are equal opportunity killers. We are more than happy to ice pussy e-badass’s who sit behind their keyboard and yap on message boards too.
    For all of you who call G.W. Bush an idiot, you are correct. However, this idiot made it to the presidency of the U.S., AND got re-elected. You’ve made it on to PFT to talk shit. You do the math as to where you rate.
    Have a nice day, and go f–k yourselves. If you don’t want to stand behind the troops, then feel free to stand in front of them, and see how far that gets you.

  158. packers4life says: May 31, 2010 11:44 PM

    Honestly I don’t think Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame. Yes he did give up his career to go fight for his country and I deeply respect him for that but that doesn’t equal a ballot to the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame is for athletes who had a stellar career on the field. Not what they did off of it.

  159. packers4life says: May 31, 2010 11:47 PM

    “The HoF is used to remember players that shed positive light upon the NFL.”
    Out of all due respect, a player can shed positive light on the NFL all they want but that doesn’t mean they are Hall of Fame worthy. The Hall of Fame is for players who performed on the field and put up Hall of Fame numbers.

  160. longthoughts says: May 31, 2010 11:50 PM

    All the respect in the world to him, but that’s ridiculous. I hope this was really about generating comments and page hits. Football–and the honors that come to players for what they do on the field–has no business delving into this sort of slippery slope. There are awards and honors for people like Pat Tillman. Rightly so. The Football Hall of Fame should not be included in these honors. Could it be possible, just maybe, that the Football Hall of Fame isn’t the place where humanitarians, heroes, or people engrossed in social causes (just or unjust) could most be honored? Ridiculous article. For as much as I appreciate this site, it’s scary how poorly thought out this stream of logic seems to be. If you really believe this, how unfortunate. If you really don’t but like generating traffic, how much more unfortunate.

  161. dfl777 says: Jun 1, 2010 12:00 AM

    Tillman made a choice to serve his country. That choice carries with it honor, but not the honor of the Hall of Fame. And what if there was a hall of fame worthy player who was firmly against the war in Afganistan and Iraq and he spoke out against it, should he not be in the hall of fame for the opposite choice of Pat Tillman? And does Tillman get in over a guy like T.O. who has the status but not the honor? Just does not make sense. Lets just honor Tillman every memorial day and leave the Hall of Fame to those who chose to play football and play it bettter than anyone else. I find it hard to believe that if Tillman was the starting qb of a Superbowl champion that he would have chose to go to Afganistan. And Florio stop using your great site as a soap box and just give me more Football.

  162. raidervv says: Jun 1, 2010 12:21 AM

    Someone above–actually many posters above–make the point that Tillman is a hero because he joined the military, making the ultimate sacrifice to keep us safe.
    But nothing could be further from the truth than that what are military currently does is keeping us safe. We’re not in danger of imminent attack. Terrorists aren’t being rooted out by what we’re doing on the other side of the world. Terrorists are being created. It goes without saying that when you collaterally kill as many as we have that you’ve made yourself countless enemies that will seek revenge against you.
    Tillman sacrificed a great career. And he did so for noble reasons. But I wouldn’t live under the illusion that he and his fellow soldiers are keeping us safe. No more than the soldiers in Vietnam kept us safe. In may have been that way in WW2, but it just isn’t anymore.

  163. kravenm3 says: Jun 1, 2010 1:03 AM

    @ packman4
    I believe one of your fellow Englishmen said it best…
    “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks, that nothing is worth war, is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
    John Stuart Mill

  164. raidervv says: Jun 1, 2010 1:07 AM

    One more thing about some of the comments like “our military protects your right to make distasteful comments.”
    Are you out of your mind? It’s not our military that protects these things. It’s our Constitution. It’s the rule of law. It’s the courts.
    Do the Swiss have a right of free speech because of their military? Do the Japanese? Do Canadiens? Do the French?

  165. grndmstrj says: Jun 1, 2010 1:37 AM

    Damn right!!

  166. contract says: Jun 1, 2010 1:42 AM

    Why not just induct his whole unit? Lets face it, if it wasn’t for the guys that gunned down one of their own, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

  167. patpatriotagain says: Jun 1, 2010 2:54 AM

    put him in the hall of Good Guys. not the hall of fame. his fame has nothing to do with football.

  168. snnyjcbs says: Jun 1, 2010 3:19 AM

    I always have to laugh at just how many PUNKS there are running around our country today calling themselves men. The comment above regarding “the hall of shame”, the only shame is all the Boy/Men running around today. Hell they have run a whole generation of women into the arms of other women. And why, these punks are repulsive to many of the women. The shame comment owner above should not even be on the same page as a great young man like Tillman. He is everything they are not and what America use to be. With most today it is all about me with nothing but fake bullshit to back it up. Be proud boy/men you are the first generation to repulse and run off much of the other gender.
    When you write an article on a great young man like the one in the article above. You should try to keep the boy/men running around today to what they do best which is playing internet outlaw or let them get back to thier favorite game, playing left handed Johnnie while wondering why they always find themslves in the company of other boy/men. The next step for these young fellas is the old corn hole shuffle, punks, nothing but punks.

  169. 987654321 says: Jun 1, 2010 4:58 AM

    I remember how the Bush Administration tried to make Pat Tillman a recuiting poster boy after his death. They covered up what really happenen and claimed Tillman had been killed by enemy combatants and died a true hero in order to lure more suckers into their wars.
    Well, Tillman is a hero. I can’t say the same for Bush or the cockroaches that were part of his administration.

  170. packman4 says: Jun 1, 2010 5:02 AM

    chhutson27 you are wrong!!!
    Bush Lost the election to Gore therefore when he took you into war he did so as an unelected president
    And that is a fact and is why most of the world is amused by the arrogant comments from America about being the worlds ‘Greatest Democracy’.

  171. packman4 says: Jun 1, 2010 5:06 AM

    Oh and before you ask if i was American I would be a Democrat! LOL!

  172. packman4 says: Jun 1, 2010 5:21 AM

    FoF
    I should have said that was the public perception maybe not the reality of UK troops.
    I do admire the fact that you all think they are fighting for your freedom. Good to see mind control is working so well.
    America is a superpower no one is going to take your freedom away……..thats what you do in Guantanomo Bay. Some people there are pure evil others just look like Muslims so must be guilty.
    Oil and land is the really issue behind the cover of terrorism.
    Iraq……..No WMDs
    Afghanistan………if reports are true Osama is in Pakistan.
    Now you wont bomb them because they would fight back, yet you claim to want to root out terror……..

  173. dietrich43 says: Jun 1, 2010 7:16 AM

    Instead of honoring just Tillman, it’d be better if the Hall created a separate display honoring all NFL players that served. I admire Tillman for the choice he made, but he’s not the only player to serve in the military.

  174. FoF says: Jun 1, 2010 7:33 AM

    packman,
    you’re ignorance is limitless. No wonder you are such a Ted Thompson fan boy.

  175. godofwine says: Jun 1, 2010 8:48 AM

    I’m sorry but Pat Tillman does not deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame. I am a 12 year Navy veteran who served overseas in Kuwait in 2006. Pat Tillman made a choice that many of us wouldn’t make. He chose to be a soldier instead of a football player. He said salary be damned, I want to defend my country and he lost his life.
    Should he be remembered? Yes. As any veteran who served his country whether it was a time of war or not. What he did was admirable, especially when you consider what he gave up. But he was only an above average player. I questioned Floyd Little as a Hall of Fame player, and he had a much better career than Pat Tillman.

  176. Popeye says: Jun 1, 2010 8:58 AM

    First of all Tillman sucked as a player but is a great human being. Should we have great human beings in the hall of fame just for being great people? No
    Tillman is a great American and walks the walk unlike most people. I just wouldnt put him in the HOF. Its almost a diservice to him. Elevate him to something much higher.
    Plus the report of no WMDs in Iraq is false/ Stop listening to the mainstream media that tries to shape your opinion and think for yourself. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND PAT TILLMAN.

  177. packman4 says: Jun 1, 2010 9:15 AM

    FoF being right doesnt make me ignorant!
    This site is much better when its Favre all the time!
    Have you all heard of freedom of speech?
    The War was wrong
    Thats not to say some soldiers are heroic.
    But getting shot by your own side is not heroic just unlucky

  178. JustRay says: Jun 1, 2010 9:23 AM

    raidervv,
    Your an idiot. The military protects the constitution therefore you have freedom of speech. If it wasnt for the military you would have no freedom of speech because countries like North Korea would attack us. I dont think the constitution would protact you from a 7.62 round. Please people think before you type.

  179. Strick says: Jun 1, 2010 9:25 AM

    I am a veteran, and I say there’s no way pat Tillman should be in the HOF.
    The HOF is for great football players. Period. Voting someone in because they’re a great guy off the field is just as wrong as voting someone out because they’re a turd off the field.
    Pat Tillman was a good man and a model American, but he doesn’t belong in the Hall.

  180. footballfan says: Jun 1, 2010 9:32 AM

    The HOF should be for on the field only. I agree we should honor Tillman but not that way.
    It is a shame that people are using this post to cry about politics. This is about Pat Tillman, not G. W. Bush.

  181. crazyguy says: Jun 1, 2010 9:32 AM

    Last time I was at the HOF, his jersey and uniform was on display. That is perfect! Did not play long enough to deserve going in as a player but maybe they need to expand that part for player/veteran…
    God, Family, Country and everything else follows.

  182. The Real Shuxion says: Jun 1, 2010 10:19 AM

    To everyone saying we shouldn’t have gone to war.
    We have a Left wing president and we are still there.
    If we shouldn’t have gone and shouldn’t be there, then why are we there now?
    Just sayin.

  183. Profanity in ALL CAPS says: Jun 1, 2010 10:44 AM

    packman4
    the HOF should “only” be considered for on the field play? okay, then I will look for your OJ Simpson vote.

  184. WNYhell5 says: Jun 1, 2010 10:51 AM

    HOF is for on-field contributions. Sounds like we need an “NFL Hall of Good Semaritans”.

  185. Actlikea2yrold says: Jun 1, 2010 10:58 AM

    If you wanna honor him in Canton, Name a whole wing of the museum after him, But to be inducted? I dont think so. Lots of good players, doing good things in the NFL. Its just that Pat was a good player and did a great thing. It does not make sense to compare his talent to players already inducted and waiting to hear that call. The numbers are not there. No doubt about it, he should be remembered and celebrated, but inducted as a HOF’er, I would pass.

  186. jbranchmd says: Jun 1, 2010 10:59 AM

    This is a bad idea. Your misguided attempt to “keep the turds out” and “let the good guys in,” would only ruin the voting. Voting for the HOF needs to be objective and based on “on-the-field” accomplishments. Selections based on any other criteria would be contaminated by politics and personal agendas. Who, for example, would decide which players are good and which ones are turds? Some fat middle-aged sports writer with an axe to grind, because a ball player wouldn’t give an interview back-in-the-day? Your suggestion joins a long list of ill-conceived, politically-motivated, unnecessary ideas that nobody asked for; right up there with putting Reagan on the $50 bill. If you want to honor fallen military heroes, send them to Arlington, not Canton.

  187. raybow33 says: Jun 1, 2010 11:06 AM

    To all the spoiled punks or street thugs who have made the anti-war posts, go piss into and electric socket! You have no idea what it means to be in a war zone! ooh wait you think you might because someone shoots their popgun .22 at you once a week ,but you don’t know. Grow up, this country would be just another third world nation without great war veterans.
    As to whether or not Pat Tillman belongs in the hall of fame ,it’s a great debate! personally he was a very good NFL DB ,not a great one, need to be great to be in the HOF.

  188. patsfan1016 says: Jun 1, 2010 1:03 PM

    I love the people here who are so short-sighted as to his career. Tillman’s playing is meekly remembered because he last played in a game 9 years ago. Take one of today’s best safeties T Polamalu, he looks like he’s headed for the HOF, right? Well now compare the stats!!! Polamalu plays the ball better in the air, but tackles? Tillman had more tackles and more solo tackles and he played one less game than Polamalu did over their first four years. Tillman deserves to be in because he was a very good football player who was on track to be a great player and he sacrificed that potential not to fight in Iraq. He joined the service long before Iraq was even a war (3/20/2003). He joined the service right after the 2001 season ended. And please stop with the Sean Taylor parallels too. Taylor didn’t quit football to serve his country.

  189. 987654321 says: Jun 1, 2010 2:05 PM

    Why aren’t some of you chicken hawks in Iraq or Afganistgan right now?

  190. Ralph says: Jun 1, 2010 2:36 PM

    I think singling out Pat Tillman for the HOF, a civilian honor, based on his military service belittles the sacrifices of hundreds of thousands of service men and women.
    I would prefer to see the HOF open a special “wing” which honors those present and past members of the NFL who also chose to serve their country.
    All of our service men and women should be honored each and every day of our lives. They’ve made sacrifices that most of us don’t understand and given us the freedom that we mostly take for granted. Bless them all and thank you from the bottom of my heart.

  191. theravenlives2 says: Jun 1, 2010 3:01 PM

    @ This Class Sucks:
    I hate to get political but you aren’t that smart. You said liberals only live for themselves but liberals believe that tax dollars should be used for social programs. I am not saying that is right or wrong, but I am saying generalizing one group when there is an obvious and outspoken example to counter your point makes you look stupid. Thats like saying all republicans hate states rights. When it comes to politics (and most other things) generalizing is wrong and makes you look stupider than the person you insult.
    No Einstein, Liberals believe MY tax money should be used to fund social programs, while the folks who benefit from those programs are generally their constiuents and hangers-on. Let’s just “soak the rich” so we can create more of a government monopoly. That is taking the very people we need to create the jobs and driving their manufacturing to China or somewhere else. Basic economics, chief. If you tax to death the people who creat the jobs, then you have no jobs!! Now go back to reading Harry Potter, and leave the big issues for the adults. Next thing you’ll tell me is that Obama and the dumocrats wanna “help me”. Please, I can’t afford any more of that kinda help.

  192. this class sucks says: Jun 1, 2010 3:43 PM

    @theravenlives2
    I’m not going to argue politics with you. I was arguing that if you generalize you are stupid, if you want to debate that point go ahead. But I am not going to debate political views with you on PFT. Come find me on facebook and we can have an argument there. I will argue agains’t whatever you support just to entertain us, but don’t try to get into a political argument on PFT.

  193. edgy1957 says: Jun 1, 2010 3:58 PM

    theravenlives2 says:
    That is taking the very people we need to create the jobs and driving their manufacturing to China or somewhere else. Basic economics, chief. If you tax to death the people who creat the jobs, then you have no jobs!!
    ************************
    Buddy, tons of jobs left this country when Reagan was in office and he was dropping the tax rates. Jobs didn’t go away in this country because of unions and healthcare and taxes but because companies overseas could pay a kid 30 cents a week to do the same thing that we won’t do for less than minimum wage.
    NOW, if you want all those jobs back then YOU better be prepared to work for those kind of wages for YOUR job, which may not have anything to do with some of the jobs that left. I can guarantee you that if Americans were paid what they get paid overseas, our illegal immigrant problem would be solved overnight. People say that illegals do the jobs that we won’t but that’s not true. They do the jobs that we won’t for THAT PAY.

  194. granadafan says: Jun 1, 2010 4:10 PM

    “theravenlives2 says:
    June 1, 2010 3:01 PM ”
    theravenlives2, funny how you pro-war supporters didn’t pipe up once when over a trillion dollars went to fight TWO wars at the same time, yet you and the tea partiers are raising holy hell when we want to spend money on our own people. Who funded the trillion dollars then for the overseas war which don’t benefit the average joe here in the US? We could have used that trillion dollars plus for healthcare, infrastructure rebuilding, fighting illegal immigration, etc. Nah, let’s line the pockets of Haliburton instead.
    Back on topic. No, Pat Tillman should not be in the Hall of Fame. I respect what he did immensely, but his on field performance was not HOF worthy.

  195. footballrulz says: Jun 1, 2010 5:17 PM

    After spending the last hour reading threse posts I agree the NFL needs to open some sort of exhibit for players who have exhibited off the field courage. The VIetnam Vet, the guy who died trying to save three kinds, Pat Tilman, etc. Not enshrine them, but acknowledge them.
    For those of you who spewing your politics on here, spouting off about political wars, Bush, Obama, Osama, etc….
    Thank a vet. You wouldn’t be able to do so without them. If you have never worn a military uniform–then this goes double for you. Shut up!!
    BTW, I loathe “full-time” politicians.

  196. JuicyMelon says: Jun 1, 2010 5:29 PM

    # raidervv says: June 1, 2010 12:21 AM
    Someone above–actually many posters above–make the point that Tillman is a hero because he joined the military, making the ultimate sacrifice to keep us safe.
    But nothing could be further from the truth than that what are military currently does is keeping us safe. We’re not in danger of imminent attack. Terrorists aren’t being rooted out by what we’re doing on the other side of the world. Terrorists are being created. It goes without saying that when you collaterally kill as many as we have that you’ve made yourself countless enemies that will seek revenge against you.
    Tillman sacrificed a great career. And he did so for noble reasons. But I wouldn’t live under the illusion that he and his fellow soldiers are keeping us safe. No more than the soldiers in Vietnam kept us safe. In may have been that way in WW2, but it just isn’t anymore.
    ___________________________________
    No I don’t agree that Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame.
    However, since when was this an opportunity to bash the military. Case in point, raidervv’s comments above. I will be the first to admit that the North American way of life simply makes people mad, but this war or any other war did not create terrorists. I am sorry to bash you for your opinion, but please do research or take a course on why terrorists are created. It’s their lifestyle versus ours. Also, your dig on the Vietnam war is very pathetic. Did you serve? If not, please at least attempt some research before sounding off.

  197. golongboyee says: Jun 1, 2010 6:47 PM

    patsfan1016 – that is the dumbest post I have ever had the displeasure of reading. You don’t put someone in the HOF for what he COULD have done…..that is moronic. Comparing his average career to a segment of someone else’s career who may be HOF worth is also ridiculous. Bottom line is…he was an average player. Just because he played a position that put him in a position to have a few good stats doesn’t make him a HOFer……he was an average player and why he left has no bearing on what he COULD have done. Your post is beyond stupid!!!!!!!

  198. dafish says: Jun 1, 2010 6:47 PM

    Hell, why stop there. Why not put Joe Delaney in the Hall of Fame. Bob Kalsu, Tony Romo for changing that guys tire after the Dallas a few years ago, Ricky Bell and Brian Piccolo for being so courageous and on and on.
    Florio, I see your angle here, but based on statistics he does not deserve it, plain and simple. It’s all about choices, and I served in the military so I feel I have as much right to offer up my $.02 as anyone. He made a choice to go into the Army. He made a choice to become an Army Ranger. He made a choice to go to Afghanistan when he could have been a poster boy in DC for the war efforts, similar to David Robinson working at a submarine base in Georgia and the Drem Team practicing in Jacksonville. Show the flag nothing more. Tillman made a choice and paid for it with his life. Friendly fire is no less admirable. If he came back do you really think he would have been at the same level? I doubt it.
    Inducting a player solely based on off the field merits instead of his on the field merits is a slap in the face to those before him. I think it’s ridiculous he was even inducted into the college football hall of fame.

  199. golongboyee says: Jun 1, 2010 6:50 PM

    …….but yes, I would agree that Bush should be in the Hall-of-Shame as far as Presidents go….one of the bottom ten of all time…….that fact cannot be disputed!!!!!!

  200. dafish says: Jun 1, 2010 7:49 PM

    patsfan1016 says:
    June 1, 2010 1:03 PM
    I love the people here who are so short-sighted as to his career. Tillman’s playing is meekly remembered because he last played in a game 9 years ago. Take one of today’s best safeties T Polamalu, he looks like he’s headed for the HOF, right? Well now compare the stats!!! Polamalu plays the ball better in the air, but tackles? Tillman had more tackles and more solo tackles and he played one less game than Polamalu did over their first four years. Tillman deserves to be in because he was a very good football player who was on track to be a great player and he sacrificed that potential not to fight in Iraq. He joined the service long before Iraq was even a war (3/20/2003). He joined the service right after the 2001 season ended. And please stop with the Sean Taylor parallels too. Taylor didn’t quit football to serve his country.
    ————————————–
    You do know he was killed in AFGHANISTAN, right? Taylor was defending his family. Joe Delaney died trying to rescue 3 drowning kids even though he did not know how to swim. Comparing Polamalulu to Tillman on stats is ridiculous. Tillman would have had more tackles most likely because Arizona sucked and their defensive line seldom got pressure on the qb.
    You could also say Greg Cook and Bert Jones should be Hall of Famers because their careers were cut short.
    A Hall of Famer is inducted due to a body of work not a snapshot in time. Why do you think Tony Boselli is on the outside looking in?

  201. FordPSD60 says: Jun 1, 2010 10:00 PM

    Bazooka Joe is nothing short of a coward. He knows nothing about duty, honor and country. He expects others to do defend our country and it’s beliefs. He will be the first one to complain about ones rights but has no intentions of defending them. Thank God our country didn’t consist of too many Bazooka Joe’s back in 1941. Bazooka Joe, coward to the end.

  202. millionwatts says: Jun 2, 2010 8:16 AM

    he should be in the football HOF for a commitment that has nothing to do with football? might as well vote in Ghandi and Mother Teresa also. i can name three active players off the top of my head who have donated several million dollars each to different institutions, do they get to make the HOF now also? Myron Rolle might cure cancer and save countless lives, is he a HOF football player?

  203. Maddog says: Jun 2, 2010 9:59 AM

    patsfan1016 says:
    June 1, 2010 1:03 PM
    I love the people here who are so short-sighted as to his career. Tillman’s playing is meekly remembered because he last played in a game 9 years ago. Take one of today’s best safeties T Polamalu, he looks like he’s headed for the HOF, right? Well now compare the stats!!! Polamalu plays the ball better in the air, but tackles? Tillman had more tackles and more solo tackles and he played one less game than Polamalu did over their first four years. Tillman deserves to be in because he was a very good football player who was on track to be a great player and he sacrificed that potential not to fight in Iraq. He joined the service long before Iraq was even a war (3/20/2003). He joined the service right after the 2001 season ended. And please stop with the Sean Taylor parallels too. Taylor didn’t quit football to serve his country.
    ——————————————
    Come on now. He was a solid player but this comparison is ridiculous. When a safety makes that many tackles it’s an indication of how bad the players in front of him are. He was a good player but don’t compare him to one of the greats.

  204. ToledoLions says: Jun 2, 2010 1:20 PM

    Bazooka Joe,
    So getting shot in a driveby while sitting on your porch, that we the people pay for, drinking a 40 is probably your view of a hero. After all, those are the people jungle bunnies like you look up to, right? You get everything from the government and get to live for free here, so why doesn’t your pussy black ass go over and fight? You know, do something to earn your freedoms.
    And speaking of “mommas”, tell yours to quit smoking crack so the next 74 babies she has don’t turn out like you.

  205. theravenlives2 says: Jun 2, 2010 2:58 PM

    granadafan says:
    June 1, 2010 4:10 PM
    theravenlives2, funny how you pro-war supporters didn’t pipe up once when over a trillion dollars went to fight TWO wars at the same time, yet you and the tea partiers are raising holy hell when we want to spend money on our own people. Who funded the trillion dollars then for the overseas war which don’t benefit the average joe here in the US? We could have used that trillion dollars plus for healthcare, infrastructure rebuilding, fighting illegal immigration, etc. Nah, let’s line the pockets of Haliburton instead.
    ——————————————-
    Sorry, man, we’ll ask the terrorists to attack us at a time that’s more convenient for you next time. They are the ones who started the wars. I hate to bring this point up again, but exactly how many successful terrorist attacks have we had in the U.S. since 9/11? Quick, think fast! Plus, wasn’t Afghanistan (where 80% of our involvement is now) the “good” war, according to the dumocrats? Weren’t they the ones who “voted for it before voting against it.”
    BTW, liberal definition of Haliburton – Any company that makes two dollars or more that we don’t like. Most of you have no clue who Haliburton is or what they do, and you think Wal-Mart is part of Haliburton.
    Next….

  206. theravenlives2 says: Jun 2, 2010 3:07 PM

    this class sucks says:
    June 1, 2010 3:43 PM
    @theravenlives2
    I’m not going to argue politics with you. I was arguing that if you generalize you are stupid, if you want to debate that point go ahead. But I am not going to debate political views with you on PFT. Come find me on facebook and we can have an argument there. I will argue agains’t whatever you support just to entertain us, but don’t try to get into a political argument on PFT.
    =================================
    Oh, so now you’re “not going to argue politics with me” and “this is a football site.” Funny, I don’t recall asking you to respond to my first post, which you willingly did , to argue politics. Me talking to you on facebook means I would actually wanna be your friend. There’s problem #1.
    Second, if you didn’t understand anything I said in the earlier post, i would be glad – as a public service – to help you. Just hit me up on here and we’ll try again. I’ll give you rule #1 for free…
    If you think the democratic party is actually your “friend” and their trying to “help the people,” then you need psychaitric help. Just ask my buddy from the Union above, who can’t possible understand why people would buy a car from a non-union shop that is made better and $3,000 cheaper just so he can keep his waaaay overpaid job.

  207. this class sucks says: Jun 2, 2010 8:08 PM

    @theravenlives2
    I am saying you shouldn’t generalize. That isn;t about politics that applies everywhere. I shouldn’t say all Philly fans are assholes. Or all muslims are terrorists. If you think the democratic party is pure evil than how do you explain the civil rights act?
    If you have party loyalty you are an idiot. Neither party is always right. You need to think big picture and try and figure out what you think is the best solution. If you always vote republican you are going to be wrong , if you always vote democrat you are going to be wrong. If you think the democratic party is always wrong or even mostly wrong (implying the republican party is mostly right) than you are an idiot. They all make mistakes all the time.
    You can list me a bunch of examples of things the democratic party has done wrong and I can give you just as many for the republican party.
    DON’T HAVE PARTY LOYALTY.

  208. this class sucks says: Jun 2, 2010 9:23 PM

    @theravenlives
    On a related topic. Terrorism had nothing to do with the Iraq war. You are just wrong fact wise. Also terrorist attacks on Americans have increased since the start of the wars. Look it up. Don’t get me wrong, Saddam was evil and I don’t miss him, but if you are going to argue an opinion fine but don’t present untrue things as facts.

  209. theravenlives2 says: Jun 3, 2010 11:31 AM

    @this class sucks…
    Ah, you poor niave’ child. The left has you chirping the party line like a canary…the exact thing you accuse me of…
    You wrote:
    “If you think the democratic party is pure evil than how do you explain the civil rights act?”
    It’s simple, most democrats fought the civil rights act tooth and nail. THE REPUBLICANS (for the most part) PASSED IT!
    Don’t believe me? Here is a post on another tread on here by a guy names OranJello Jones. This is what HE wrote (not me):
    “I love the bright bulbs on the left who don’t know their history, let alone current events…
    The House of Representatives passed the 1964 Civil rights Act by 289 to 126, a vote in which 79% of Republicans and 63% of Democrats voted yes. The Senate vote was 73 to 27, with 21 Democrats and only 6 Republicans voting no. The chief opponents were Democrat Senators Sam Ervin, of later Watergate fame, Albert Gore Sr., and Robert Byrd. Senator Byrd, a former Klansman whom Democrats still call “the conscience of the Senate”, filibustered against the civil rights bill for fourteen straight hours before the final vote.
    It didn’t end there though since most of the southern state Governments were under control of segregationist Democrats. A REPUBLICAN federal judge named Frank Johnson and appointed by IKE who did much of the desegregating of many facilities in the South. He overturned the black in the back of the bus law with his first decision. Interestingly enough he met staunch rsistance from segregationists like George Wallace, Lester Maddox, and other Democrat Governors.”
    Hmmmm….maybe its not ME who needs to learn my history (oh, BTW, I was a history minor in college).
    So there you have it. And as far as party lines go, you don’t know what’s important to me. I will share with you that I AM a republican, but I am PRO-CHOICE. Always have been, always will be.
    So lets don’t jump to generalizations on your side, my friend!

  210. this class sucks says: Jun 3, 2010 3:02 PM

    @theravenlives2
    You are only looking at one aspect of how a bill becomes law. First of all, you are correct on the southern democrats mostly (but not totally) voting agains’t the bill. But zero southern republicans voted for the bill. My point being (and what I meant by my original statement) is the bill could never have passed without a democratic house senate and white house. Republicans had there chances but never desegregated. Our country couldn’t and didn’t desegregate until the democrats were firmly in control. There is a world of difference between voting for something when someone else has sponsored it and sponsoring a bill. You can thank JFK and LBJ (democrats) for the civil rights bill. And you know perfectly well that more democrats voted yes on the bill than republicans. The democrats had more people in both the house and senate and the bill was split north and south more than anything. And more Democrats from the south voted yes than republicans, in fact 0 southern republicans voted for the bill. Like I said, you just looked at one aspect of how a bill becomes law. It is unreasonable to believe that republicans would have sponsored a civil rights act such as that one at that period in time.
    I am very glad to see you aren’t as bound by part lines as your earlier posts implied. So let me ask you this, how important is pro-choice to you? I am assuming you are fiscally republican (if so correct me). If you had the choice between a candidate that was pro-choice or one that was fiscally republican but pro-life who would you choose? I am honestly asking out of curiosity, I have no ulterior motive.

  211. packman4 says: Jun 3, 2010 3:59 PM

    OJ is a murderer but gets my vote as his on field play was worthy of the Hall

  212. theravenlives2 says: Jun 3, 2010 5:05 PM

    I am very glad to see you aren’t as bound by part lines as your earlier posts implied. So let me ask you this, how important is pro-choice to you? I am assuming you are fiscally republican (if so correct me). If you had the choice between a candidate that was pro-choice or one that was fiscally republican but pro-life who would you choose? I am honestly asking out of curiosity, I have no ulterior motive.
    OK, I will answer your question since you have no ulterior motive…it depends. If I thought that the free right to a safe and legal abortion was in jeopardy, then I’d probably vote for the pro-choice candidate. If I didn’t think – as I don’t now – that Rowe vs. Wade would be overturned, then I’d probably vote for the fiscally responsible candidate. I think the question is harder on the national level than it is on the state level, because in the state I live in (Maryland), you have a better chance of a donkey flying over my house than you do of R vs. W being overturned. Then again, you have about as much chance as seeing a fiscally reponsible government, too.

  213. effs420 says: Jun 4, 2010 4:54 AM

    # hotep999 says: May 31, 2010 4:20 PM
    he should be in the hall of shame! enlist into a war (that is 100% politics) to get shipped away and killed by his bros! where’s the honor in that?
    ——————————————————-
    you’re an idiot.
    that said, i respect what tillman did, but HOF? i dunno about that…

  214. this class sucks says: Jun 4, 2010 3:15 PM

    @theravenlives2
    Interesting. I am always curios when people are socially on one side and fiscally the other. I almost certainly fall on the liberal side of social (prochoice, pro gay marriage, anti-death penalty (although a big part of that is fiscal)). I am not an economic expert but I don’t feel that anyone is really correct. Since JFK all the way to Bush (not going to count Obama until he has left office) every president has made our national economy worse, republican or democrat (outside of Bill Clinton randomly). So, for me, I don’t really care about the fiscal side of a candidate. I just vote for them based on social issues. I figure neither side can really help the economy, especially with the other side resisting whatever they are doing, so I might as well focus on the things that are important to me. And yes, I realize I will probably have to pay higher taxes, but its only money, and what good is money if you if the government can tell you what to do? Thats just my opinion.
    I agree with you on the prochoice issue, like I said earlier. I don’t if there is a right answer as far as an one abortion goes, but there is always a right answer in telling people what to do. The government should not get to tell anyone what they can or can not do with themselves. Just out of curiosity, what do you think about gay marriage? I live in California where it is a huge issue, but idk how big it is in other places around the country.

  215. NinersRule! says: Jun 4, 2010 4:09 PM

    Players should be judged purely by on field performance. This isn’t the nice guy awards. It’s meant to honor the greatest football players of all time. Tillman was a hell of a guy but when you think of the greatest LBs to ever play the game nobody will think of him. We need to keep the politics and emotions out of this. There are other ways of honoring players for their actions off the field without tainting the HOF.

  216. captoxygen says: Jun 6, 2010 6:53 PM

    Sorry, boys and girls, but Tillman should never go in to the Hall of Fame. He was, at best, an average player. Just because he got around training in the Army because of his football prowess doesn’t make him a hero or hall of famer. He is neither. He is a patriot, for sure. Rangers are elite warriors that live and train together for years. Mr. Tillman was not one of them. While we all appreciate the sacrifice he made for his country, he would have been better served in a regular infantry unit until he had received appropriate schooling on the function of Army Rangers. Name a stadium after him, a street, even a school, but he does not belong in the Hall of Fame.

  217. BennyBlanco says: Jun 11, 2010 9:50 PM

    First of all… Pat Tillman wouldn’t have wanted to be in the H.O.F because that’s not why he did it… he and his brother joined days after 911 because they decided that serving their country was more important than playing a sport.
    You SCUM that say he sucked at football, or joined a political war, or did it for publicity should all burn in hell. The things you people will say when hiding behind a keyboard is beyond disturbing.
    Here are the facts…
    1.) I grew up in San Jose, Ca and played against Pat. He was good but not like Delta O’Neill who dominated other teams. He was the workhorse guy on his team who never gave in and always played 100%
    2.) When he went to ASU he was never thought of as the next big thing… and the farthest thing from ever being considered a NFL prospect. But once again he worked his ass off, became a quiet leader and ended up becoming Pac-10 Defensive player of the year. He also graduated in 3.5 years with a 3.8 GPA
    3.) He was drafted by the only team that really knew about him with the 226th overall pick. The AZ Cards… did you also know he turned down a large 9mil contract by the Rams out of loyalty to the team that gave him a shot???
    4.) He recorded 155 tackles in 2000 and he sucks as a football player??? A person who never was thought of to even make the pros finished 2000 with 155 tackles (120 solo), 1.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 9 pass deflections and 1 interception for 30 yards. That’s BETTER stats than half the starting Safeties in the league today
    5.) Now the best part… not sure how much you all make but I know I’m not making anywhere near the amount of money the Cards offered him… basically 3.6 Mil for 3 years. He turned it down… TURNED IT DOWN… are you hearing me???? TURNED IT DOWN to join the Army with his brother Kevin that had a promising Baseball career in the works. To do in his heart what he felt was the RIGHT THING TO DO
    Who gives a flying **** if he was as good as Lott, Atwater, and so on and so forth. The man was married but put his country and ideals first. In the end he paid for it with his life and I remember exactly where I was when I read it and will never forget. I never met him but the news of his death still affects me to this day.
    So in the end… just show some respect. Pat Tillman was, is and will always be a hero

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