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Mike Shanahan has made the Redskins older

Don’t call it a rebuilding project. 

Redskins coach Mike Shanahan and trusty sidekick G.M. Bruce Allen built the 2010 Washington Redskins to compete now, and develop players later.  That’s what happens when you have one draft pick out of the top 100 selections.

CSNWashington blogger Rich Tandler notes that Shanahan took the league’s oldest roster and made it even older.  Using an admittedly unscientific roster projection by beat writer Ryan O’Halloran, Washington’s average age should roughly climb half a year more than last season’s 28-year-old average.

Out of 24 new players on the projected roster, 13 additions will be over 30 years
old in Week One.  The average age of projected starters climbed more than the reserves.

What does all this mean?  Well, not much in the standings.  Three of the four oldest teams in football last year (New Orleans, Arizona, New England) won their divisions.

But feel free to argue with anyone that says the Redskins are “building” towards the future more than any other team.  The rest of the NFC East teams remain younger and posses more quality young core players.

One offseason can only change so much.

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79 Responses to “Mike Shanahan has made the Redskins older”
  1. Captain Canuck says: Jul 5, 2010 1:43 PM

    “Washington’s average age should roughly climb half a year more than last season’s 28-year-old average.”
    So he’s made them younger then. Because time alone would have made them a year older (draft nothwithstanding). But they only increased by half a year.

  2. Buck Stallion says: Jul 5, 2010 1:44 PM

    Who was the idiot who said they were building towards the future more than any other team?
    Maybe a skins fan?

  3. CH³NO² says: Jul 5, 2010 1:44 PM

    Hey it worked for Geroge Allen Sr with the “Over the Hill Gang” back in the 70′s.
    But seriously, they will be lucky to go 8-8 this year and McNabb won’t make it to halfway before he is carted off to the hospital after being sacked for the 100th time!

  4. NickSabanSucks says: Jul 5, 2010 1:45 PM

    Hmm… Old Players playing for the redskins? Where have I seen this before?

  5. DanRooney says: Jul 5, 2010 1:47 PM

    Redskins are a diseased franchise. You can even send a HOF coach there and he’ll end up making horrific decisions (probably due to Snyder’s influence) that throw the franchise into the ground. Not a good time to be a Skins fans.

  6. dolphin796 says: Jul 5, 2010 1:48 PM

    s o s

  7. Mooch says: Jul 5, 2010 1:49 PM

    Here is the Redskins future:
    2010: 8-8
    2011: 8-8
    2012: 8-8
    2013: 7-9
    Yawn.
    Then in 2014 they’ll sign yet another washed up “game changer” for too much money + sign an overhyped coach and repeat process.
    Wake me when it’s over.

  8. ytrain says: Jul 5, 2010 1:52 PM

    Can you say 8-8?

  9. CanadianVikingFan says: Jul 5, 2010 1:56 PM

    Three of the four oldest teams in football last year (New Orleans, Arizona, New England) won their divisions.
    ————————————-
    But what did each of these teams have? A great QB.
    McNabb is good, but he is definately not great. Nor is the offensive cast around him, and who knows about the defence since it has switched to a 3-4. Look at Greenbay, could stop the run, but were toasted in the passing game.

  10. TheToolofTools says: Jul 5, 2010 2:02 PM

    Well, those young free agent punks were not getting it done now were they?
    See how well the Raiders did after they sent him packing (see also Jon Gruden).
    Dan Snyder is a meat head.

  11. digitalbath says: Jul 5, 2010 2:02 PM

    you hear alot about the nfc east,nfc east,nfc east,but really,the past decade,the nfc east has produced exactly one super bowl champion[07 giants],that division always seems to blow it in big games,but all the fans ever hear is how that division is the strongest and toughest,but they could be,and probably are the most overrated div in the nfl

  12. Hosstyle In Tampa says: Jul 5, 2010 2:09 PM

    Bruce Allen did the same thing with the Bucs:
    Todd Steussie
    Charlie Garner
    Derrick Deese
    Randall McDaniel
    Jeff Garcia
    and on and on…
    oh and he ruined our draft on a year to year basis…
    Good Luck sucking Washington

  13. Chiefs2010 says: Jul 5, 2010 2:17 PM

    Overhyped, childish QB, who routinely blows it in big games – check
    Terrible, patchwork offensive line with a starting rookie left tackle – check
    Three over the hill, drama queen running backs – check
    No wrs of note and a TE who is more concerned about whacky and goofy for his blog than playing – check
    A trash talking secondary that gets their proverbial lunch fed to them on Sundays – check
    A coach who never won without Elway and has been out of the league for two years – check
    They do have decent lbs and a defensive line – even with Haynesworth cryin’ about the 3-4 (I happen to agree with him, however.)

  14. robert ethen says: Jul 5, 2010 2:43 PM

    Yeah, but all the players averaged 18 years of age the last time Shanahan was relevant.

  15. Word of Wisdom says: Jul 5, 2010 2:44 PM

    Redskin Haters – just shut up and get off your bandwagons
    The Skins won 4 games last year with pretty much zero talent. Of course they would love to have a young talented stud at every position on one offseason…but in the real world that is not gonna happen.
    They filled as many holes as possible and loaded up the RB position with plenty of over the hill legs so that no single back is taking many carries – smart
    They loaded the oline with bodies, the dline with bodies, and who knows how good the wr talent is when they have depended on Jason Campbell (Mr.Five Yard Pass) for the past few seasons to throw the ball.
    In a Division with the Eagles have a rookie QB and a poor mans T.O., the Cowboys with E news and Kardashians in the locker room, and the Giants (not even the most talented team in their city), the Redskins are just fine

  16. Matt Cribbin says: Jul 5, 2010 2:47 PM

    The reason they’re old now is because Shanahan is trying to win this season. Next year when we have more picks and hopefully a CBA in place, then through the draft and FA the Skins will start getting younger.
    2010 9-7
    2011 10-6
    2012 12-4

  17. cocoachip says: Jul 5, 2010 2:51 PM

    Its so strange how the tide shifts with even a suggestion of failure. I can remember when McNabb first signed, most jumped on the bandwagon! Now the complaint is about the age of the team. I can remember when the “over the hill” gang were winning games and kicking behinds. Dare we dream again, or do we flee at the first hint of indifferent? Come on fans (if indeed you are fans) have a little faith in the team, at least there is a change, the least we can do is to support the team!

  18. cocoachip says: Jul 5, 2010 2:51 PM

    Its so strange how the tide shifts with even a suggestion of failure. I can remember when McNabb first signed, most jumped on the bandwagon! Now the complaint is about the age of the team. I can remember when the “over the hill” gang were winning games and kicking behinds. Dare we dream again, or do we flee at the first hint of indifferent? Come on fans (if indeed you are fans) have a little faith in the team, at least there is a change, the least we can do is to support the team!

  19. El Perro says: Jul 5, 2010 2:54 PM

    Just picking up from where he left off in Denver… Picking up scrubs thinking it’ll patch things up. Like his D in ’08

  20. golongboyee says: Jul 5, 2010 2:59 PM

    doesn’t matter……..nothing will until Snyder is gone……which isn’t going to happen anytime soon. The only hope the skins fans have is if Snyder runs into so much financial trouble because of all his other misadventures that he is forced to sell a majority stake in the team…….otherwise, same ole merry-go-round……Shanahan will be gone in 3!!!!!!!!!!

  21. The Black Cat says: Jul 5, 2010 3:01 PM

    Portis, Parker, and LJ rush for 2600 yards
    McNabb over 4,000 yards
    #1 Defense in NFL
    19-0

  22. golongboyee says: Jul 5, 2010 3:02 PM

    Word of Wisdom, you are a complete moron…….the Skins (on paper) have one of the better defenses in the NFL……….and they do have some talent on offense…..their tight ends for instance……..where you get this “no talent” thing, I have no idea!!!!!!!

  23. ceetown22 says: Jul 5, 2010 3:15 PM

    HAIL SKINS!

  24. ConorMalone says: Jul 5, 2010 3:17 PM

    This should be no surprise. That’s what Bruce Allen has done wherever he’s been. He did it with the Raiders too the last time they were relevant under Gruden – Rich Gannon, Sam Adams, Rod Woodson, Rice & Brown the oldest WR tandem in the NFL.
    It’s his M.O.

  25. Mooch says: Jul 5, 2010 3:23 PM

    On paper? Like how Wilkinson, Gilbert, Llyod, Archuleta, and Randel El were some of the better players “on paper”?
    4,000 yards for McNabb, huh?
    You do know he’s never thrown for that many yards, right? Or didn’t you?
    And the whole premise of the signing was that Shanahan would run a more balanced gameplan, right? Or didn’t you listen to them?
    So that means his attempts will be down.
    And he’s been in offenses that had far more talent than this train wreck of a Redskins roster.
    But nice call!
    Wake me in 2013 when you make yet another attempt to be relevant.

  26. thinker says: Jul 5, 2010 3:45 PM

    The Redskins began the offseason with a serious lack of talent on the Oline, RB, WR, QB, and decided to convert to a 3-4 scheme on defense. Now a month before training camp the Redskins have added McNabb – older but a definite upgrade over Jason Campbell; a top rookie Trent Williams at LT; an inexpensive trade for a probowl Jammal Brown to play RT; a veteran to fill the void as a swing guard/tackle in Artis Hicks. They added youth at LB, FB, and OLINE in the draft. They have a great young core of safeties and cornerbacks; they have a great young core at TE – Cooley and Fred Davis; they have a core of young LB’s – though still to be seen how they play in the 3-4.
    That’s what they were able to do in one offseason. To do reasonably well this year, they will have to get good contributions from older rental type players on the DLine, RB and probably WR positions – unless Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly surprise.
    The Redskins will be better and the age thing is a little deceiving because most of the older players are being used as a short term bridge – skewed a bunch by potentially having one year of guys like 38 year old Joey Galloway, 30+ year old Larry Johnson, and a few others. Clearly they will be old on the DLine and who knows what becomes of fat albert.
    Next year will potentially be the deepest year ever in free agents given the CBA issues that prevented any real free agency this year. I’m not saying that the Skins are headed to the Superbowl – but they are on the way to rebuilding while trying to win some games in the meantime.

  27. edgy says: Jul 5, 2010 3:51 PM

    Mooch says:
    You do know he’s never thrown for that many yards, right? Or didn’t you?
    ***********************
    Yuu do realize that he threw for 3900 yards two years ago and was one missed game away from 4000 a few years before that, right? Or didn’t you?

  28. edgy says: Jul 5, 2010 3:52 PM

    Mooch says:
    You do know he’s never thrown for that many yards, right? Or didn’t you?
    ***********************
    You do realize that he threw for 3900 yards two years ago and was one missed game away from 4000 a few years before that, right? Or didn’t you?

  29. The Hogster says: Jul 5, 2010 4:03 PM

    Lemme guess – the Cowboys will win their 22nd Superbowl this year right??? You guys always know exactly how the year plays out.
    Just astounding how awesome you are.

  30. bigrig says: Jul 5, 2010 4:07 PM

    @Words of Wisdom
    The Cowboys have a Kardashian in the lockerroom? Ask the Saints and Lakers if that was a problem for them.

  31. SSBlitz says: Jul 5, 2010 4:26 PM

    This is all based on some unproven beat writers far-off assumptions. Providing well-thought insights like cutting their young WR, Malcom Kelly, in favor of Joey Galloway because Kelly doesn’t play special teams (makes no sense).
    T number will almost certainly be different by the start of the season.
    And 28 isn’t that old in the NFL. Saints won with the second oldest, so none of this matters.

  32. TryTheVeal says: Jul 5, 2010 4:31 PM

    You know this place is turning in TMZ and fast, when comments are taking about The Kardashians……….

  33. Mooch says: Jul 5, 2010 4:34 PM

    “Yuu do realize that he threw for 3900 yards two years ago and was one missed game away from 4000 a few years before that, right? Or didn’t you?”
    You are claiming he’ll have a career season on an inferior team as he gets older and less mobile.
    He’ll reach career bests even though his attempts will go down about 15%, since Shanahan will employ a more balanced attack.
    That’s delusional thinking, man. McNabb himself has said that he looks forward to not having it all on him, that we’ll “run the ball down here”.
    Isn’t is awesome when your new star makes excuses in the introduction press conference!

  34. Outlaw Jersey Whales says: Jul 5, 2010 4:58 PM

    bigrig says:
    July 5, 2010 4:07 PM
    @Words of Wisdom
    The Cowboys have a Kardashian in the lockerroom? Ask the Saints and Lakers if that was a problem for them.
    ————————————————–
    Nah.
    Bought, and paid for.

  35. Big Tex says: Jul 5, 2010 5:20 PM

    Regarding McNabb and the “potential” 4K season;
    1. He’s NEVER had one.
    2. Give me a choice of the Eagles’ receivers or the ‘Skins’ receivers, I take the Eagles every day and twice on Sundays.
    3. In his 11 seasons, McNabb has appeared in 16 games only 4 times.
    4. McNabb is more likely to be sacked than Drew “Mr. Statue” Bledsoe was. This might help explain the inability to play 16 games.

  36. bigrig says: Jul 5, 2010 5:32 PM

    If I was a Redskins fan, after all the bungling Snyder has done since he got there, I would curb my enthusiasm until I actually saw some success.
    The lower the expectations, the less the disappointment if Shanahan ends up like Turner,Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Gibbs, and Zorn.

  37. numberfour says: Jul 5, 2010 5:32 PM

    florio is the black cat

  38. Hail26 says: Jul 5, 2010 6:02 PM

    F the Haters…..HAIL Victory

  39. Buck Stallion says: Jul 5, 2010 6:06 PM

    golongboyee and Word of Wisdom are both wrong.
    They have average talent=8 & 8, which actually would be a big improvement over last year.
    & the Eales don’t have a rookie QB, he’s just not any good.

  40. bigrig says: Jul 5, 2010 6:22 PM

    @Hail26
    Nobody hates the Redskins. They aren’t relevant enough to work up a good hate for.

  41. sharkattack says: Jul 5, 2010 6:35 PM

    Here are some realistic and maybe even optimistic predictions:
    Portis 1000yds
    Parker 500
    Johnson 200
    McNabb plays 13 games throws 2400yds and 16 tds.
    Moss leads in rec. yds. with 800
    Skins go 2-4 in division (beating the Eagle twice,) and end up 7-9.
    Next year, they trade Portis back to Denver for Champ Bailey and a few picks.
    Everything comes full circle.

  42. Switch1 says: Jul 5, 2010 6:42 PM

    You just admitted that the other 3 oldest teams made it to the playoffs. And nobody said The Redskins they were building Younger for the future.
    Another bash the Redskins gutter trash report.
    You guys just love all those Cowboy fans that post here. Booooorrrrrrriiiinggg.

  43. jerry's kids says: Jul 5, 2010 7:06 PM

    If the Skins are going to suck then McNabb’s attempts will be up and he might have a huge year passing.

  44. monet99 says: Jul 5, 2010 7:22 PM

    Shannahan will prove he is one of most overrated coaches in NFL history.

  45. tajones58 says: Jul 5, 2010 8:03 PM

    Hey Mooch and any of you guys who know for certain the Skins future – I’ve really been trying to hit the lottery and damn it is so difficult when all I can do is guess. Seems much easier to ask you really really smart guys to just simply give me the winning numbers. I mean hell if you can sit here and give me the skins won-loss totals for years in advance a few simple numbers for a lottery this week gotta be a piece of cake. So here is your chance to prove how smart you are – give me the winning numbers for the powerball drawing for this Wednesday and then I will be more then happy to believe the predictions you make with such force and belief regarding the Redskins! Come on Mooch the drawing happens in two days, you know what the Skins will do for the next 3-4 years. Waitng…..

  46. Mooch says: Jul 5, 2010 9:45 PM

    taj – don’t cry.
    Lookit, McNabb is an improvement and you should have a solid season.
    My point is this – McNabb having a career year with lesser weapons and a FAR more balanced gameplan are VERY unlikely. He’ll probably get 3,400 / 22 / 11.
    I am sorry that makes you sad, but let’s see what Vegas posts as over under for Redskins wins. How about that? I bet it’s around 8.
    That’s not a bold prediction, it’s more like telling someone to play craps at the casino because its the best odds for the player.
    And now…
    2…6*…10…22…32…44
    *powerball
    Relax, man. It’s a holiday. Have some codeine and coke.

  47. Mooch says: Jul 5, 2010 9:47 PM

    Taj,
    This leads me to a better question – do you pick the numbers or select them?
    I feel like the winning ticket location is predetermined, much like when a slot is timed to hit. So, I let the machine pick the numbers.

  48. kornonthekolb says: Jul 5, 2010 9:53 PM

    and McNabb has made them fatter

  49. rickvaldez says: Jul 5, 2010 10:20 PM

    To the idiots that already know the record for next year and really the one the has the record for the next four years. Can you tell me what games they will win I would love to make some money. And seriously is there a Chiefs and Bucs fan on here poking fun at the skins???????

  50. NFLMMAfan says: Jul 5, 2010 10:31 PM

    a projected 24 new players on the roster AND all new coaches…..
    what has the average roster AND coaching turnover been during the Snyder era?
    3-4, 4-3, something new on offense every year or two…..
    how has that “change is the only constant” worked out for you, Danny?

  51. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 7:58 AM

    Rick, after a decade of watching McNabb as an Eagles fan I actually CAN predict your record.
    And so can you.
    McNabb wins 90% of the games they are supposed to win in the regular season.
    He will lose 99% of the games they are supposed to lose.
    Just look at the spread, you almost won’t have to watch the game come Sunday. This is a fact we learned to live with in Philly.
    NOTE: This does not include playoffs, where he commonly loses as a favorite.
    So…if you are OK betting the money lines, you can clean up with the Skins this season.

  52. larr999777 says: Jul 6, 2010 8:03 AM

    Age is just one factor in judging the roster of a NFL team. When you look at the improvement at QB, a in shape Portis, a improved offensive line and zone blocking scheme,a new 3-4 defense that does’nt tell the offensive what defense your in, that will produce more turnovers,a down field passing attack, team unity and a real head coach. These improvement coupled with a Gm who has aquired players who are hungry and not over paid before they prove themselves will produce a record that will far exceed 2-14 , my projections have them at 10-6 . Why do I say this , I say this because otyher than the weak offensive line of last year ,the Redskins had the talent to have won 8 games last year. Now with all the improvements 10 games will be automatic !!! Skin fans you are about to witness one of the greatest turn a rounds in NFL history !!! !!! !!!

  53. ppdoc13 says: Jul 6, 2010 8:59 AM

    you gotta love the skins fans. at least they are passionate. stupid but passionate. like this last moron larr999777 with the skins having the talent to win 8 games last year. Wow!!!! 8 whole games. That might even get you in the playoffs in the NFC West. But sonny boy, you play in the NFC east. Shannahan has never won anything without Elway and when he took over control of the draft and personnel in Denver he was as bad as The Big Show who is now going to screw the Browns up even more than they were (if that is possible). You have one good option. Start cheering for the real football team in your local area. That would be the Baltimore Ravens who in a less than 15 years have built a real tradition of winning with a HOF GM, good young coach and more talent on both sides of the ball this year than the foreskins have had in the last 5 put together.

  54. Switch1 says: Jul 6, 2010 9:37 AM

    PPDOC= Stupid Moron
    Shanahan hasn’t won anything without Elway
    Same tired,worn, stupid argument from a amateur.
    I stopped reading after a stupid statement like that.
    Chuch Knoll= Bradshaw
    Bill walsh= Montana
    Don Shula=Griese
    Jimmy Johnson= Aikmen
    shall we go on??
    They all won TWO or MORE Superbowls but to your stupid math since they didn’t win with anybody othe QB they suck??? your an idiot.

  55. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 9:46 AM

    Switch…
    Fair enough.
    But can you really tell me that the Broncos weren’t better than the records they were positing under Shanahan in his final years there? Those years were positively Art Shell-ish.

  56. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 11:07 AM

    @ Mooch,
    Yeah, Mcanabb just had all the weapons in the world. ARE YOU CRAZY? If you consider his weapons such as Pinkston and Thrash he did pretty well. Oh yeah, let’s not forget Freddy Mitchell. The only year he had a real weapon he went to the SB.
    He had two years with a 160 lb midget in Jackson (concusion waiting to happen) and one season with a rookie in Jeremy Maclin (I do think he will be good if the Eagles get a QB).
    McNabb put up good numbers and went to the playoffs a lot for a guy that was surounded by SUB PAR talent (other than Westbrook in his prime) for most of his career.
    The Redskins may go 8-8, but the Eagles WILL do worse than the Redskins. Kolb is not McNabb and will get killed if Reid trys to throw as often as he did with McNabb. Have fun come week 8 when Kolb is figured out.
    You claiming that McNabb has been surounded by talent on the Eagles makes us Redskins fan giddy about what he will do with our guys Cooley, Davis, Moss, Kelly, Thomas (much more talent than he had for the majority of his years in Philly).
    EAGLES 6-10

  57. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 12:15 PM

    Alpha,
    How was he winning games back when he had no talent?
    Give it some thought, or look at some tape, and then get back to me.
    Then ask yourself if he still possesses the the specific skills that enabled him to do that.
    Lookit, I saw every game of the McNabb era. Every game. I lived it.
    Cooley – B+
    Davis – nothing special
    Moss – nothing special
    Kelly – nothing special
    Thomas – nothing special
    These WR’s are not even as good as Rod Gardner.
    You over-value your roster.

  58. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 12:16 PM

    Alpha,
    How was he winning games back when he had no talent?
    Give it some thought, or look at some tape, and then get back to me.
    Then ask yourself if he still possesses the the specific skills that enabled him to do that.
    Lookit, I saw every game of the McNabb era. Every game. I lived it.
    Cooley – B+
    Davis – nothing special
    Moss – nothing special
    Kelly – nothing special
    Thomas – nothing special
    These WR’s are not even as good as Rod Gardner.
    You over-value your roster.

  59. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 12:17 PM

    Santana Moss has been putting up Pinkston type of numbers for years, and he’s feast or famine.
    But he must have a good rating in Madden’10, seemingly the only evaluation people make nowadays.

  60. sacdaddy says: Jul 6, 2010 12:27 PM

    What a pathetic excuse for a franchise.. Hey skins fans don’t come crawling on the Bmore bandwagon, we want nothing to do with your trash.
    Caw!

  61. DikShuttle says: Jul 6, 2010 12:32 PM

    I just have a problem w/ McNabb in a Skin’s uni. It’s unsettling.

  62. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 12:45 PM

    Mooch,
    Okay, I see you rated the Skins receivers so maybe you could put it into context for me if you rate the below players…
    Tod Pinkston- ?
    James Thrash – ?
    Freddie Mitchell – ?
    Reggie Brown – ?
    Hank Basket – ?
    Jason Avant – ?
    Greg Lewis -?
    Kevin Curtis – ?
    Billy McMullin – ?

  63. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 12:52 PM

    ….and comparing Moss to Pinkston is a joke. He is feast or famine same as Desean Jackson.
    Also, I’ll give you a pass on your ranking of Fred Davis since you probably don’t see to many Skins games and you obviously don’t know. Fred Davis will be a beast in the NFL. To the point that Cooley was in trade talks all year cuz Davis is that good.
    Anyway, I think the earlier post with the list of most of McNabbs “weapons” during his career speaks for itself.
    You are grossly over estimating the tools McNabb had to work with for the majority of his career!!!

  64. BigMikeSkinsFan says: Jul 6, 2010 1:11 PM

    saying fred davis is nothing special is stupid and you cant judge a guy who was a rookie coming in for an injured Cooley, got 509 yards and 6 TDs on a team that was horrible and call him nothing special.
    you have automatically disqualified yourself when you claimed Cooley was a B+. Move along hater, your game is old here.

  65. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 1:52 PM

    I had Fred Davis on my fantasy team, he’s a matchup play.
    Tod Pinkston- put up same numbers as Moss
    James Thrash – better than Thomas or Kelly
    Freddie Mitchell – better than Thomas or Kelly
    Reggie Brown – better than Thomas or Kelly
    Hank Basket – can fumble onside kicks
    Jason Avant – better than Thomas or Kelly
    Greg Lewis – better than Thomas or Kelly
    Kevin Curtis – As good as Moss before injury
    Billy McMullin – was with team for 5 minutes
    I see your point, and I get that your prediction McNabb makes bad players better.
    And any talk of McNabb receivers has to include Brian Westbrook.
    Why don’t you do this – plot out where this 4,000 yards goes. Among the skill position players.
    I don’t see it. And, again, McNabb will see a reduction in attempts…which is a smart move. That’s 99% of my reasoning for why he can’t have a career year.
    But that stopped about 4 years ago. He isn’t as innovative because he has slowed down and stays in the pocket. He had to do that, but it limited his ability to get more with less.

  66. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 1:59 PM

    B+ is an insult?
    I am a tough grader. I cannot give him and A when that is what Gates or Dallas Clark get. He doesn’t have the body of work Witten or Gonzalez do. I just can’t give him an A.
    That’s an appropriate grade for a guy who has had one very good season and several solid ones. Compare his best years with those of Gates and Gonzalez, who have defined the TE position. It doesn’t measure up. No disrespect to Cooley, he kills the Eagles.
    Every team has a guy like Fred Davis somewhere on their roster. But great players are always great, they don’t disappear from one game to the next like Davis did. He could be great, maybe he gets exposed with over use. Finley, Bennett, Davis, Ingram…lots of “could be’s” at the TE position.

  67. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 2:20 PM

    Number of Receptions for Pinkston
    10 – 2000
    42 – 2001
    60 – 2002
    36 – 2003
    36 – 2004
    Number of Receptions for Santana Moss
    84 – 2005
    55 – 2006
    61 – 2007
    79 – 2008
    70 – 2009
    I won’t even compare touchdowns because Pinkston can’t sniff Moss’s jock.
    You are obviously not qualified to grade players on the Redskins or any other team for that matter (INCLUDING YOUR OWN). Keep believing your homespun, self serving view points.

  68. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 3:14 PM

    You take Santana’s 2006 to current numbers and compare them to Todd Pinkston’s best year…
    60 catches
    798 yards
    7 TD’s
    He’s very Pinkston-esque as of late. And he only did significantly better than Pinkston in 3 seasons his entire career.
    Not saying Pinkston could play, he’s one of my least liked Birds every. But if your player’s average was in line with Pinkston’s best, how good can your player be?
    Sadly, the Skins made Moss into a possession receiver. He’s a fine player, but not among the NFL’s elite. And not better than
    I was always more concerned with Rod Gardner.
    B- I says.
    McNabb was not making players better toward the end here. Maybe Shanahan can put him in a better system, but that also means he throws less and cannot make the 4,000.
    Break down the 4,000 among your skill position players.
    My guess…
    Cooley – 900
    Moss – 800
    Kelly – 400
    Thomas – 400
    Davis – 400
    Portis – 250
    Parker – 250
    LJ – 100
    Maybe a couple hundred more than this, but you lack that all-out uncoverable guy I think you need to get to 4k.

  69. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 3:16 PM

    Santana did have some great years – I think 90% of all his production has come against me in fantasy.
    But remember, this is 2010 and not 2005.

  70. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 3:53 PM

    Your logic is baffeling and simply wrong. Can you not Add Mooch? Santanas worst year was almost the same as Pinkstons best. And that was an injury riddled season for Santana where he missed a bunch of games. Your comparing a past pro-bowler to Todd Pinkston. There names shouldn’t even collide in the same sentence much less comparing their production.
    I’ll do the math for you
    Pinktons Avg. Receptions per year with Eagles = 36.8
    Moss’s Avg. Receptions per year with the Skins = 69.8
    How is that even close to similar? Santanas average is nearly double Pinkstons.
    Why can you not grasp the obvious? Are you going to start trying to convince us the sky is no longer blue? And where the hell did 4,000 yards come from? Who said McNabb will throw for 4,000 yards? What are you talking about?

  71. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 4:28 PM

    So if Pinkston sucks and was capable of those numbers…
    …and Moss now puts up those numbers regularly…
    …he sucks too.
    PAST pro-bowler. He’s just a guy now.
    PAST pro-bowler. What is he now?
    He’s kind of like that sucky WR Todd Pinkston.

  72. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 4:29 PM

    2006 onward, please.
    Or will Moss have a career year too?

  73. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 4:42 PM

    HMMM, Moss caught 70 passes last year. Guess Moss will just fall off the face of the earth and start averaging 36.8 all of a sudden. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

  74. AlphaQ2 says: Jul 6, 2010 4:44 PM

    That’s 70 with Jason Cambell. And 79 the year before with…you guest it…Jason Cambell.
    Keep praying the Skins don’t sweep the Eagles next year.

  75. edgy says: Jul 6, 2010 5:09 PM

    Mooch says:
    Not saying Pinkston could play, he’s one of my least liked Birds every. But if your player’s average was in line with Pinkston’s best, how good can your player be?
    *************
    That has to be the saddest argument that I’ve ever seen. Seriously, a guy’s AVERAGE is in line with another guy’s BEST and you ask how good can a player be? Try this: Stinkston was a joke. 5 of Santana’s seasons resulted in more receptions than TS’s best season. During his worst years with the Jets, he averaged 47 yards a game and that was still 11 yards better than Stinkson’s career average and he’s averaged 66 yards per game with the Redskins. Given the difference between Campbell and McNabb, I don’t see his numbers dropping unless he has a serious injury.
    McNabb’s numbers are pretty damn good when you look at who he’s had to throw to over the years. His best receivers have always been RBs except when he had TO and he set career highs in every category that year and would have gone over 4,000 yards but he sat out the final game because they didn’t need him (One of the years that the McNabb haters use against him and he didn’t miss that last game because of injury because ironically, they held out most of the starters to keep them from risking injury before the playoffs). He got a career high in 2008 with 3916 yards but he did that in 16 games.

  76. rickvaldez says: Jul 6, 2010 5:11 PM

    Mooch,
    Throw your numbers out the window. You cant count on the past few years with Moss when Campbell was so quick to dump the ball off. If you cant watch a game and see he is a above average receiver you just want to bash the skins. Yeah the skins do lack a true #1 but with the upgrade at quaterback that should make everyone better………………..

  77. Mooch says: Jul 6, 2010 5:27 PM

    Right, so if Moss has a 2010 in line with Pinkston’s best year (yards and TD’s), then Moss will “suck” too. Right?
    OK, I took that as far as I could, not sure I by the analogy anymore! I will give it to you that Moss HAS DONE better than he’s shown, and could do way better with McNabb. But not that much better to the point where McNabb gets 4k (and I know that was an argument with someone else).
    Rick, that’s actually a good reality check, it was with Campbell. So Moss could see an uptick in 2010 with McNabb. However, I think it will end up close to the year McNabb had where no one did much better than 1,000 and he put up big numbers. I just do not think Moss is that guy anymore.
    And Moss is no TO.

  78. merajc86 says: Jul 7, 2010 11:42 AM

    I wouldn’t say McNabb would have a 4000 yard year, but 3500 and 23+ tds while 10 ints should be expected. Also another reason he won’t have 4000+ yards is that Shannahan likes to run. One thing I foresee is Portis bouncing back. And BTW, Redskins may have the best (or second best) OL in the NFC east…

  79. MagicMan407 says: Jul 8, 2010 3:30 PM

    What the hell? Santana Moss isn’t some scrub your a freaking moron. Also, Fred Davis a one year wonder? 6 Tds over 500 yards replacing Cooley. Now they will run 2 tight end sets with both. Randle el is gone this is where most people dont grasp the yards. Either Kelly, Thomas or another reciever could have a good year along with Moss. Maybe they trade for a Vincent Jackson maybe not?
    Moss- 900 yds
    Cooley- 750
    Davis- 500
    Thomas- 600
    Kelly- 500
    additional running backs or recievers that wernt on the team last year unless they sign a TO or Jackson I can see Mcnabb putting up 3700 yards and 25+ Tds 12 picks even behind a decent running game. Hey Campbell put up 3,600 yards 20 tds and 15 ints last year and the year before his first full year as a starter with Portis rushing for 1500 yards still put up over 3200 yards.
    My prediction because I am a mind reader and all like everyone else is. Mcnabb 3717 yards 26 Tds 12 ints. Redskins will be top 15 passing and rushing and top 10 in total offense. Defense will be a bit different I think they drop from top 5 pass defense to like 10th and total defense that is usually top 10 to around 15th in total defense. Redskins go 9-7 and battle with Giants to make playoffs. I think this year will be another tough year within the NFC east.
    Cowboys-10-6
    Redskins-9-7
    Giants-9-7
    Eagles 8-8

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