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Pat Tillman's brother wishes Pat Tillman had shot first

From time to time, we’ve delved into matters of religion in this space.  We know it’s always a dangerous proposition, and we believe that religion is an intensely personal matter that is manipulated all too often by people who have, for whatever reason, obtained a public platform.

That’s why my initial instinct after seeing the remarks from Richard Tillman, the brother of the late Pat Tillman, on the most recent episode of Bill Maher’s show was to ignore them.  Apart from Richard Tillman’s headline grabbing sound bite — “I wish he would’ve just lit these f–king idiots up with his own gun” — the discussion included Richard Tillman’s belief that Pat is “f–king dead” and not with God.

People are entitled to believe in God or not believe in God.  That’s the mystery of free will, and the beauty of living in a free country.  God (and I choose to believe that there is One, in large part because I do not believe that life as we know it could have been created accidentally) doesn’t want us to be robots.  But I get uncomfortable whenever someone pushes religion too hard, because I believe that faith is a more subtle and internalized process and that human nature often resists the perceived “hard sell,” whatever the product may be. 

I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s Richard Tillman or Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief.  If you choose not to believe in God, that’s fine with me.  It’s your choice.  But there are a lot of people out there, young and old and in between, who have yet to make a final decision, and I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.

This isn’t a heaven-and-hell issue.  I choose to believe that God doesn’t want us to suffer in life or after it, and that those who don’t believe simply see their existences expire at death.  So maybe, in the end, the folks who choose to believe will receive at the end of their lives exactly what they had anticipated — and maybe those who don’t believe will receive the same thing.

Either way, the reality is the none of us will know the answer until it’s too late to do anything about it.

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395 Responses to “Pat Tillman's brother wishes Pat Tillman had shot first”
  1. yarlmak says: Sep 28, 2010 10:44 AM

    Sanhedrin.

  2. Roy Biggins says: Sep 28, 2010 10:50 AM

    Please don’t post about crap like this again.
    Nobody cares about your religious beliefs any more than you care about ours.

  3. Diomedes says: Sep 28, 2010 10:50 AM

    It’s okay for Tim Tebow to praise God, which is to assert the existence of one, because that’s his faith, and not okay for Richard Tillman to talk about atheism, because it might trouble people who do believe, or who might believe?
    Bizarre logic.
    But not surprising coming from someone who prefaces his statement by saying he believes in magic.

  4. tumbleweedx says: Sep 28, 2010 10:51 AM

    Good post……now back to football.

  5. penguininbondage says: Sep 28, 2010 10:51 AM

    If there is a god and he allows such things as child molesters to exist, well F@!k him!
    We live we breath we die, we all do. There is no escape from this, never will be. For those that feel they must believe is some greater, higher, omnipotent being to comfort them, fine. Just do so in private.
    Actually, Zappa id God.

  6. 1Happyman says: Sep 28, 2010 10:51 AM

    Couldn’t agree more. Let folks make up their own minds without either thumping the Bible, nor talking down to them about religion.

  7. toiletking says: Sep 28, 2010 10:51 AM

    God + football= LOLZ! I particularly like the punters and kickers that point to the sky after good kicks.

  8. roadkill says: Sep 28, 2010 10:51 AM

    God is too busy punishing Notre Dame for those Brady Quinn crotch-grabbing pictures and Jimmy Clausen’s haircut to get involved with anything else.
    Making Notre Dame lose is apparently a full-time job, even for an omnipotent deity.

  9. mjaz says: Sep 28, 2010 10:52 AM

    Religion – see George Carlin
    Florio – change the subject

  10. VampireSlayer says: Sep 28, 2010 10:52 AM

    I been a fan of this site for a long time and while I have not agreed with you a lot of times. I still enjoyed the site for what it was, and its something I check often through out my work day. But this is by far the one time I agree with you 100%. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

  11. ADogDC says: Sep 28, 2010 10:53 AM

    1. This isn’t Football related. This is about the same brother who was cussing a storm at his brother’s funeral and ESPN muted him….
    2. Bill Maher is a guy everyone likes until he envokes the, ‘There is no GOD’ talk that is very in your face.
    3. If I had a platform like yours or Whitlock, I would prob have the same rant, which is clearly directed towards Maher….

  12. FalconCrazie says: Sep 28, 2010 10:54 AM

    Thanks for sharing this, Florio. I am a Seminary student who spends hours upon hours studying theology and the like. Your words are very freeing and appreciated.

  13. Red says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    Could you possibly get more off topic?

  14. Testify says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    well said florio abd without your usual jab at the raiders….

  15. Michael says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    Accidentally? You call millions of years of natural selection and evolution an accident? It’s a scientific fact, ignore it if you choose, to justify your religion, but stop fostering YOUR beliefs on others in this space…

  16. D wins games says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    Back to football please!

  17. mensafool says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    To correct your post, Richard was simply echoing what Pat believed. During the interview he talks about how much distain that he had for Palin and McCain coming to his brothers funeral and saying that his brother is now with God. I quote “I don’t go into churches and tell them everything they believe is bullshit.” I think you missed the point here and you are also misquoting Bill Maher if you think he is an Atheist. He simply ‘preaches’ that he doesn’t know, that’s it, he doesn’t know and no one does. For some reason Christians in particular hear Atheist when they hear “I couldn’t possibly know and neither could you.”

  18. BCfromHell says: Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM

    I would think that Bill Maher would have to believe in god…, how else would he ever get a show?
    More surprising then anything else…, is that someone (Florio) devoted time watching that show and had any intellectual stimulation from it. Maybe if you had spent your evening watching Monday Night Football, instead of Bill Maher…, we’d have something worthwhile to read.., instead of your ramblings about giving religion a chance, or not, or whatever.

  19. Patrick says: Sep 28, 2010 10:57 AM

    Well put, Mr. Florio.

  20. Red says: Sep 28, 2010 10:57 AM

    And really, there are entire television and radio stations dedicated to pushing religion, and you’re whining about the handful of people who’ve happened to mention in public that they don’t believe?

  21. whooligun says: Sep 28, 2010 10:58 AM

    What an absolute joke of an article. Religion plays such a huge part in this world, affecting all of the others who don’t believe in magic. How about those poor raped women who can’t have abortions because of the religious freaks who run the country. Or how about all those innocent people from 9/11 and all the countless wars who were slaughtered in the name of “religion”. Now you have this poor guy who’s brother was killed in a BS war based on religion and greed, and you think it’s unfair that he speaks his mind? Tell that to millions of people who don’t believe in “magic”, that have been directly affected by such nonsense. Stick to making bad football jokes.

  22. ItsSkylineTime says: Sep 28, 2010 10:58 AM

    Likewise, I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there IS a God. They have no idea. I would argue that it’s the believers who have set up an elaborate indoctrination system designed to brainwash kids into belief before they’re mature enough to think for themselves. It won’t hurt them a bit to have that indoctrination challenged. Indeed, without that challenge, there will be no thinking about the journey at all.

  23. lunds007 says: Sep 28, 2010 10:59 AM

    Bill Maher is no different than any other religious figure (i.e. priest, rabbi, ect…) He just is preaching his beliefs and has every right to do so.

  24. brasho says: Sep 28, 2010 10:59 AM

    Wow, Florio. You’ve finally written an editorial piece that I agree completely with. Maybe you’re not an idiot afterall (but play one on TV).

  25. Fantasia says: Sep 28, 2010 10:59 AM

    Just in case you forgot, Richard lost his brother because of military incompetence. On top of that, the military and the Bush Administration tried to cover it up and use Pat as a poster boy for their cruddy war.
    So, Mike….get over yourself. You sir, are babbling again.

  26. GotNothing says: Sep 28, 2010 10:59 AM

    McCain came to an atheists funeral and started talking about God…
    which side grabbed the microphone first? Exactly, which is usually the case with religion…

  27. JimMarshallHOF says: Sep 28, 2010 11:01 AM

    For a differing viewpoint, I would recommend youtubing “George Carlin – Religion Is Bulls**t”. While you’re at it, don’t miss Carlin’s Football vs. Baseball.

  28. TheDPR says: Sep 28, 2010 11:01 AM

    You should have trusted your instincts, Florio, and kept silent on this issue.
    There are entire networks on television devoted to faith and religion-pushing and you have a problem with a few guys coming on TV now and then expressing a rational view?
    When there are six Atheism Networks sitting alongside the half-dozen religion channels you can whine about people on TV making their atheistic views heard on other channels.
    Belief is one of the most dangerous things in our civilization. It threatens to destroy us all.

  29. Sociofan says: Sep 28, 2010 11:02 AM

    Nice bully pulpit Mike, but consider that this is his brother. He is probably still angry and rarely gets this type of forum to vent his anger.
    The microphone cuts both ways. I also find it distasteful when politicians invoke God to justify absolutely heinous behavior. When televangelists use God as a cover to molest little boys. When celebrities like Pratt and Montag espouse their belief in God while behaving in the most decadent and bizarre ways. It is just the sick nature of religion in our society.
    I did not see the segment on Maher, but give Pat’s brother a break on this. If I were in his shoes, I might say worse.

  30. jj jones says: Sep 28, 2010 11:02 AM

    Maher invited Tillman on the show to talk about his brother Pat and the new documentary about him. Maher gave him a platform and he used it to voice his opinion. What is the issue? I didn’t hear him try to force his point of view on anybody.
    The clip of Richard saying that Pat was not with god was from over six years ago during Pat’s funeral.

  31. HarrisonHits says: Sep 28, 2010 11:03 AM

    So you feel you have the right to use a public forum to mention your belief in god here, but Tillman doesn’t have the right to use a public forum to say he doesn’t believe in god ?
    Typical religious fascism. Waa waa someone said something we don’t like about religion, so we can bash on them but they shouldn’t have the right to say anything.
    GFY Mike

  32. richardks42 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:04 AM

    I agree with most of what you said, especially the part about “I get uncomfortable whenever someone pushes religion too hard.”
    This is EXACTLY what you’re doing. People get thousands of nudges to your side on their “spiritual journey.” Who really cares what one guy has to say if he disagrees with you? Do you think another point of view should not ever be exposed to anyone? That sounds weak. If your faith is strong than it shouldn’t matter what other people say or believe.
    With that said, I think you should start a new self-help website for these type of posts and keep them off PFT. I love this site and it has officially annoyed me this morning.

  33. broncoMaineiac says: Sep 28, 2010 11:05 AM

    Any organization that shuffles around pedophiles to protect itself is BY DEFINTION fraudulent and corrupt.
    Anybody that equates atheism with being a Nazi is BY DEFINITION biased and intolerant.
    The Pope has done both of those things.

  34. savagenation says: Sep 28, 2010 11:07 AM

    ‘feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief. ”
    Your first decent post Florio. People who denounce God are in misery and want justification and acceptance for their deviant lifestyles.
    The greatest minds in the history of civilization; Einstein,DaVinci etc ALL believe
    Yet judgement is not by any man but by God. JC

  35. C says: Sep 28, 2010 11:07 AM

    Richard Tillman has the right to speak his mind. McCain felt he had the right to suggest that Pat went to “Heaven”, Richard stated the more obvious of “he’s f__king dead”. Richards statement is more factual. If this makes you upset then you my have some denial issues.
    Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire. And Richard wanted people to know that his brother would more than likely still be alive today if this problem was more of a concern. And the fact that friendly fire rate has gone past %50 percent is not a good sign and can’t be ignored.
    This was his brother. I doubt that anyone knew Pat better. His emotion was raw and true. He grounded us from visions of Pat going to a happy place to the fact that he was dead. Dead! And his own troops killed him. And the government tried to cover it up.
    R.I.P. Pat Tillman

  36. BenRapistberger says: Sep 28, 2010 11:08 AM

    Sounds like you’re bordering on doing the same thing you just said you dislike.
    It also sounds like your explaination for why you believe in God is because you can’t otherwise explain how the world around us is possible.
    The Greeks and Romans did the same thing, and now we laugh at them for being so foolish.

  37. andyprough says: Sep 28, 2010 11:08 AM

    The last thing Pat would have done would be some kind of crazy pre-emptive strike against his own troops to save his own life. In fact, during the friendly fire barrage, he was the one who was trying to calm down one of his comrades who was flipping out. Clearly Pat was not so selfish that he would desire that others die so that he could live.
    And he’ll never be truly dead, as his brother says. Regardless of your religious belief, Pat will live on as a hero, like the countless men who gave their lives at Iwo Jima, in Korea, Vietnam, etc. Their memories live on as part of our culture.

  38. savagenation says: Sep 28, 2010 11:09 AM

    # penguininbondage says: September 28, 2010 10:51 AM
    If there is a god and he allows such things as child molesters to exist, well F@!k him!
    We live we breath we die, we all do. There is no escape from this, never will be. For those that feel they must believe is some greater, higher, omnipotent being to comfort them, fine. Just do so in private.
    Actually, Zappa id God.
    ….just look at the name and hate spew from posters like this who live in misery. You my friend cannot escape your fate no matter what you do

  39. HgMeng says: Sep 28, 2010 11:09 AM

    WTF? This is America. Free Speech yo.
    Stick to football rumors and tweets.

  40. mjaz says: Sep 28, 2010 11:09 AM

    Please don’t post about crap like this again.
    Nobody cares about your religious beliefs any more than you care about ours.
    True dat !!

  41. montanabob says: Sep 28, 2010 11:10 AM

    In a world littered with right wing fanatics be it Christian or Islam, Tillmans lillte brother is a breath of fresh and in your face air. The zealots always have the microphone and say the most ridiculous things. How many bs religous tv networks are out there spouting off all kinds of total bs so that their church can turn a profit off the prophet.
    The documentation of the begining of mormanism should be enough for any intelligent human to realize how absurd and dillusional such belief systems are and how such theocracy is greatly slowing the evolution of advanced human society.
    Blind faith is very dangerous.

  42. savagenation says: Sep 28, 2010 11:11 AM

    # Michael says: September 28, 2010 10:55 AM
    Accidentally? You call millions of years of natural selection and evolution an accident? It’s a scientific fact, ignore it if you choose, to justify your religion, but stop fostering YOUR beliefs on others in this space…
    … Michael , you are proof that there has been no evolution. What a moron.

  43. JustinD says: Sep 28, 2010 11:11 AM

    Way to amazingly look like a complete ass.
    You just spent six paragraphs (of time I will never get back) ranting about people forcing their beliefs and then trying to force your own as a closing.
    You are a complete moron.
    You have lost me completely.
    Keep finding comfort in those fairy tales Florio.

  44. TitletownUSA says: Sep 28, 2010 11:12 AM

    Ummmm…. I also believe that the world is three thousand years old, dinosaurs were on the ark, but don’t believe that it is ok to own slaves and to prostitute your daughter like the bible says it’s ok. Anyway, Let’s keep this a football site, Florio!

  45. Douchebaggery says: Sep 28, 2010 11:12 AM

    Florio, you ignoramus, evolution is not an accidental process. Maybe if you read books other than the Bible you’d know that.

  46. skidoo44 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:12 AM

    I’m usually a big fan of yours Florio. I like that you have no qualms about letting your opinion shine through and refuse to put on a truly objective pretext that few can live up to.
    But this article is a horrible joke. Its clear Richard’s appearance has really shaken you, but to react to it by basically saying you don’t want to see words that might shake your faith. . . well for one its an absurd double standard, and two, it doesn’t say much for your faith if some guy on TV can shake it so much.
    First, you’re not giving proper credit to Richard Tillman, a guy whose got a lot of balls to do and say what he has. His brother did NOT believe in god and several politicians just used his death as a self serving platform to appeal to their religious base when cameras were rolling. Richard had every right, and dare I say it, the duty as a brother to get up there and set the record straight for what Pat would have wanted. Or do you really think John McCain knew Pat better then his Brother?
    Then to suggest that some how pro-god talk is ok, but no-god talk (which you know, has evidence to back it up) is bad and offends you? Grow up man, this is America. Freedom doesn’t mean freedom from offense and it certainly doesn’t mean limiting the wide array of view points in our media. This article should have been written by a bored old houswife offended by the length of girl’s skirts, not a man whose managed to create what you have in such a short time. I’m sure you don’t care, but from my point of view, its actually pretty sad.
    So maybe you should go out and SEE THE TILLMAN story before you jump the gun and rant on and on about a loving brother reacting well within the norm to the death of his brother and following cover-up and exploitation by their own government.
    Or do you not “like it” when some one gets on TV and questions the two wars as well?

  47. Dewey Axewoond says: Sep 28, 2010 11:13 AM

    Very nice, Florio.
    The only thing human reason can ever reveal is its own impotence–and stretched to its furthest capacity, the best it can conjure up is contradiction.
    And so you have, at the heart of every profundity, that inherent contradiction, what happens when finite minds try to grasp and/or represent infinity: you have a crucified god, the balance of the Tao, the denial of one’s own desires to achieve truth (a desire in itself) in Buddhism, etc.
    While it is possible that human existence is a mere anamoly–if the universe is in fact, infinite, and all things are possible, then eventually all things will be.
    For example, if infinity/existence is like pi, on-going, at some point in that 3.14159265…you might see, say, a repeated digit, like: 7777, and you can say, “aha! there is ORDER in that chaos!” but the truth is, inevitably, as infinite chaos plays itself out, things will be appear that SEEM to be ordered.
    Faith, like most other other uniquely human inventions/traits, is a form of self-preservation, except made abstract.
    Humans are the only animals that can imagine their own deaths, and therefore we can imagine the opposite of that (it is foresight, as much as anything, that separates us from animals).
    And because we can imagine one day not existing, our instinct for self-preservation takes over, and we imagine ways in which we can and will continue to exist. In a very real way, most human endeavors–art, language, faith/religion, science, etc. are just reactions to the innate knowledge of our own mortality.
    Because deep down we KNOW we are finite–that our existence has a beginning and an end–we invent ways for this not to be true.
    Like animals with an instinctual defense mechanism–poison, camouflage, claws, whatever–we lash out with our creativity, insisting upon our own survival.
    Does this mean there is no God? Certainly not.
    Energy is never created or destroyed, it only changes form and location (density).
    In that sense, via the interconnected nature of everything and the permanence of the energy which comprises it, we always were, and always are, and always will be.
    That sum total could well be “God”–the real question is: is there a MORAL component to that infinite energy, and if so, by what standard does it make judgements, and in what form does the judgement take?
    That said, I remind myself that I am a finite mind, trying to understand infinity, and that the best my reason can do is reveal its own impotence.
    Sometimes, pure faith is called for. Do people of faith tend to be happier?
    I don’t know–a believer can walk through woods and say, “this is nice, but heaven will be so much better…” and an agnostic/atheist can walk through the woods and say, “this is great, it is an amazing and rare gift to be conscious and to exist, and this may be all I ever have, so I will appreciate it to its fullest…”
    So ultimately, it is highly personal. The important thing is that you give thought to, and appreciate, your own existence–but like you said, we won’t really have an answer until we actually do.
    It’s also important to note that the Bears are still 3-0.

  48. roadkill says: Sep 28, 2010 11:14 AM

    It amuses me that so many people here like to police what Mike posts. IT’S HIS EFFING BLOG. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Go start your own football blog. Mike blogged his way onto national TV. I’m guessing the playa hata’s here would blog their way onto unemployment.
    It’s an odd post, but who gives a crap.

  49. FinFan68 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:16 AM

    WTF? Why in hell do you think that a rant about religion is appropriate for a football site? Everybody has their own beliefs and they do not matter to anyone else. Believe what you want but keep it to yourself. The only people that care are the ones who need others to validate their beliefs. The sad thing is, if you need to validate your beliefs they are not beliefs at all.

  50. Hashym says: Sep 28, 2010 11:16 AM

    Why can’t live exist by accident? Stephen Hawking explains it best (try googling it) that not only did life occur by accident, but over time it’s bound to occur. And it’s bound to occur an infinite number of times

  51. PackerFanTrappedinMN says: Sep 28, 2010 11:16 AM

    If God truly doesnt want people to suffer in life, then why did he create the Minnesota Vikings?

  52. jmcGoBlue says: Sep 28, 2010 11:16 AM

    Florio, read “The God Delusion” and “The Greatest Show on Earth”, both by Richard Dawkins…unless you’re afraid to. They may just enlighten you…if not, at least you’ll know the basis of the other side of the argument.

  53. shaunypoo says: Sep 28, 2010 11:18 AM

    “Pat Tillman” is the only thing remotely related to professional football, and in this context, it isn’t. Whether or not I believe in the issues presented in the article, I only come here for the football stuff. Your articles are preachy and judgmental to begin with, now do we need whole articles?

  54. bitchassjosh says: Sep 28, 2010 11:19 AM

    Uh, there are FAR more people on TV preaching the word of god, on a daily and weekly basis, than there are people saying that there is no god. Your posting is hypocritical in its nature! By pointing out that you dont like those who preach against god, on a site visited by MANY more people than who watch Bill Maher, you are doing exactly what you are preaching against……

  55. Pistol says: Sep 28, 2010 11:19 AM

    I’m thinking you should have followed your initial instinct. But this article should generate a fair amount of comments, so mission accomplished I guess.
    So are you saying in the last part of the article that people should believe in God “just in case”?

  56. Sharx2th says: Sep 28, 2010 11:20 AM

    “…have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them there is no God.” You must be kidding. What about having your path obscured by the endless televised cacophony of hypocrites, charlatans, pedophiles, and delusional money grubbing televangelists who believe in God? It’s not like we’re asking for equal time. Florio, there is no Santa Clause; be your own God.

  57. Tenebrous says: Sep 28, 2010 11:22 AM

    Interesting post. However, do not mistake atheism for non-belief. Ultimately atheism is based on a belief – a belief based on the (false) belief of nothing is still a belief. Atheists simply believe that there is nothing and that is a belief. So, it is not a non-belief.
    This may seem like a difference without a distinction to some, but as someone who is ostensibly legally educated, surely you can recognize the significance of the wording – especially as applied to the establishment clause of the Constitution.
    Personally, I recognize God and do not believe in happy accidents happening over and over and over again, many of which are perfectly matched in male and female sets.

  58. savagenation says: Sep 28, 2010 11:24 AM

    # montanabob says: September 28, 2010 11:10 AM
    In a world littered with right wing fanatics be it Christian or Islam, Tillmans lillte brother is a breath of fresh and in your face air. The zealots always have the microphone and say the most ridiculous things. How many bs religous tv networks are out there spouting off all kinds of total bs so that their church can turn a profit off the prophet.
    The documentation of the begining of mormanism should be enough for any intelligent human to realize how absurd and dillusional such belief systems are and how such theocracy is greatly slowing the evolution of advanced human society.
    Blind faith is very dangerous.
    …and blind ignorance is worse

  59. pfii63 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:24 AM

    The creation of this Universe and of life were not “accidents”, but no sentient God did the work either. Try educating yourself.
    As far as your rant, Maher asked Tillman a question. Nobody asked you a damn thing.

  60. lsutherland says: Sep 28, 2010 11:25 AM

    May God bless Mike Florio.
    Now get back to football please.

  61. Tobias Funke says: Sep 28, 2010 11:26 AM

    Where is the list of all the television evangelists?
    You know, the people who hold microphones and constantly bombard the airwaves with “The Word”?
    It seems just a little hypocritical to post that you’re “uncomfortable” with people like Richard Tillman, Bill Maher, etc. voicing their opinions on the existance of God or the lack thereof, as if there is no one on the other side of the proverbial coin.
    I think it might be better to just avoid posting stuff like this. It only makes you look bad, especially considering your newfound “popularity”.

  62. westbrook 36 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:26 AM

    How can it bother you when someone grabs a mic to preach atheism because it clouds people’s minds? Religious people grab the mic all the time… way, way more than atheists do.
    Regardless of your personal beliefs, there is freedom of religion. If you don’t agree with Tillman that’s fine but you have no right to judge him and accuse him of clouding people’s minds who think like you. If that’s the case atheists should really be ticked at the tons of religious people on TV and statements people make.
    I respect your beliefs but you need to respect other’s beliefs.

  63. tv says: Sep 28, 2010 11:28 AM

    Evolution is not an “accident” – far, far from it in fact. God worshipers have no understanding of this fact.

  64. Mooney24 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:29 AM

    This is all I can say about Tillman’s brother. I saw his rant on Maher’s show. We can’t begin to understand the hurt this situation has caused the family. Not only was their son & brother killed, but a massive coverup ensued and his memory was desecrated.
    But the segment where he drops the F bomb continuously and railing on about the existence of God…He’s just flat out misguided on this. He mentions how he wouldn’t walk into a Church and say “this is BS” so people like McCain shouldn’t say his brother is ‘with God’.
    Well here is the problem, Tillman. They didn’t come there to push their religion ON you or convince you that he IS with God. That’s their way of conveying their condolences and letting you know they hope the best for Pat and your family. Cursing like a sailor and trying to look cool on TV with bad jokes doesn’t help your honor your brother in any way.
    This isn’t about the existence of God. It’s about common decency.

  65. swervinmervin says: Sep 28, 2010 11:32 AM

    Florio is a friggin Catholic. That religion is a disaster. Priests molesting kids. Anyone who believes in religion is an idiot.
    800 year old men building boats and loading up 2 of every animal on it. Men walking on water. Men magically turning the ocean into blood and then parting it in half.
    The bible is a book of lessons. An R rated version of Jack and Bean stock and Goldielocks. That’s it.

  66. jcrileyesq says: Sep 28, 2010 11:32 AM

    Florio must have been sipping on some jesus juice when he wrote this. This makes my top ten things I think I think are are hypocritcal list

  67. Floriohatescincy says: Sep 28, 2010 11:33 AM

    Mike Florio – “It’s ok for Jimmy Swaggart to make millions off his televangelist show for years, pushing anti gay and sexist sentiments time after time, and it’s ok for me to use my position as proprietor of a well read website to push my agenda regarding religion (see: I believe in God) but it’s not ok for Richard Tillman to go on a show and mention that he doesn’t believe in God.”
    Dude, how the hell did you graduate from Law School? You made yourself look like a complete idiot, hypocrite. All in the name of the almighty dollar, that’s Florio’s God.

  68. ronmexico says: Sep 28, 2010 11:34 AM

    If there is a God, I don’t suppose he’s too happy about what’s been done in his name.
    I was in the car for an extended period on Friday and listened to some Christian radio for about an hour. The first 15 minutes was because there were no other options. The last 45 minutes were spent wondering if they had ever read any of the red words in the Bible.

  69. Mike Rendahl says: Sep 28, 2010 11:35 AM

    Richard lost his beloved brother and I can’t blame him for feeling the way he does, hopefully he can find his way out of his misery.
    Life is hard when there isn’t the belief that there is a higher power as I have struggled with this too over the years. I think people will be okay when listening to these comments by Richard Tillman, perhaps it is meant to be. In the end, I think everyone will be accepted and understood and that’s the way it should be.

  70. dcbronco says: Sep 28, 2010 11:36 AM

    Florio is far too stupid to realize he is the problem with the religious issue. He takes offense at someone else that believes there is no God. But I have yet to hear a rant from him about Tebow, gay marriage, don’t ask don’t tell, prayer in schools, the ten commandments anywhere and a whole host of ridiculous laws in the bible belt. While religious freaks feel completely comfortable pushing their crap on everyone else even going to the extent of constitutional amendments, they can’t even give others the right to just speak their minds. I believe in God, but I would bet god hates organized religion. It never actually follows the rules it claims God set. For while they believe God gave us free will. They spend a tremendous amount of time and effort trying to take it away from us.

  71. texasPHINSfan says: Sep 28, 2010 11:36 AM

    Mike – Richard has as much a right to preach how he doesn’t believe in God as much as you or any pastor has a right to preach their belief in God.
    I know the thought of someone not believing in God sounds polarizing, but it’s entirely fair for them to share their belief just as you share yours.
    I’ll also admit that many of these combat troops do not believe in God, and after the sh*t you see out there, it’s not surprising. I should know, I was out there several times.

  72. NagaSwan says: Sep 28, 2010 11:37 AM

    Religion is a role playing game people play. A bunch of crazy nerds taking things too seriously.

  73. jj jones says: Sep 28, 2010 11:37 AM

    “savagenation says:
    The greatest minds in the history of civilization; Einstein,DaVinci etc ALL believe”
    I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts.
    - Albert Einstein, The World As I See It

  74. Mike Rendahl says: Sep 28, 2010 11:39 AM

    Hey Mike!!
    PFT is your gig, post any thought or comment you feel like, I can tell that it’s sincere and your words are from the heart; that’s what matters most whether I agree or disagree with you!

  75. NyJetsTaketheEastin 2010 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:40 AM

    roadkill says:
    September 28, 2010 10:51 AM
    God is too busy punishing Notre Dame for those Brady Quinn crotch-grabbing pictures and Jimmy Clausen’s haircut to get involved with anything else.
    Making Notre Dame lose is apparently a full-time job, even for an omnipotent deity.
    ……………………………………………………………………………
    NOW thats F’n Funny …..

  76. gunzofsteel says: Sep 28, 2010 11:40 AM

    You are right, religion is always a dangerous proposition that is an intensely personal matter that is manipulated all too often by people who have, for whatever reason, obtained a public platform.
    So don’t post about this again. If I wanted to hear about religion, I would go to church on Sundays instead of watching football all day.

  77. Dirty Waters says: Sep 28, 2010 11:41 AM

    Cal Naughton, Jr.: “I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-Shirt because it says I want to be formal, but I’m here to party.”

  78. Mike Daly says: Sep 28, 2010 11:42 AM

    Richard Tillman needs to grow up. His brother was killed in a tragic accident during a firefight with an enemy he was compelled to help defeat, and Richard wanted his brother to shoot his own guys?

  79. crubenst says: Sep 28, 2010 11:43 AM

    God… please let the Eagles win the super bowl and I promise to eat all my turkey and be nice to my sister.

  80. chrisritch says: Sep 28, 2010 11:44 AM

    That’s why my initial instinct after seeing the remarks from Florio…….just ignore it

  81. Packdaddy says: Sep 28, 2010 11:44 AM

    First off, everyones entitled to there own opinion…..BUT THIS IS A F**KING FOOTBALL WEBSITE.
    Second, did this idiot really say Einstein believed in god?? “The greatest minds in the history of civilization; Einstein,DaVinci etc ALL believe” Because he certainly did not.
    Third, AND MOST IMPORTANT, the Bears still suck. And let us NEVER forget that.

  82. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says: Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM

    Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and “esprit de corps” of the Rangers.
    Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move farther, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.
    Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be. One-hundred- percent and then some.
    Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well- trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress, and care for equipment shall set the example for others to follow.
    Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarass my country.
    Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.
    Rangers Lead The Way!
    RIP Pat Tillman

  83. Jackson says: Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM

    # JustinD says: September 28, 2010 11:11 AM
    Way to amazingly look like a complete ass.
    You just spent six paragraphs (of time I will never get back) ranting about people forcing their beliefs and then trying to force your own as a closing.
    You are a complete moron.
    You have lost me completely.
    Keep finding comfort in those fairy tales Florio.
    _______
    No one forced you to read Scooter. get lost. you’re obviously not a user Florio cares to have on his website anyway. I think he can spare the few hits to this site you provide. run along now. mother is calling you. time for bed.

  84. contract says: Sep 28, 2010 11:46 AM

    What does the headline have to do with the rant?

  85. mplskc says: Sep 28, 2010 11:48 AM

    You sir, are a hypocrite. Stick to football. This is the type of crap that can cost you site visits.

  86. Scott P says: Sep 28, 2010 11:49 AM

    I love the site and read it at least 10 times a day — while it is tempting to chime in on this – I am staying away, there can’t be a more devisive subject so commenting on, so it is a no-win.
    We are all sad for the Tillman family and sad that the military handled it the way they did.
    RIP Pat.

  87. MotorCityKitties says: Sep 28, 2010 11:49 AM

    Which God florio? Which God is real in your mind and everyone else’s God must be false since yours is real? You see the logic in that? Your quote “I get even more uncomfortable when someone feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief” are the exact judgements that make me laugh at the bible beaters. Since he doesn’t believe in your god, he must be miserable, right? What a joke. Keep this S to yourself and go pray already.

  88. jwadz says: Sep 28, 2010 11:50 AM

    Florio – go back and look at what happened. The reason he said that is because McCain and Shriver kept talking about Pat being in a better place ect at his memorial service… fully knowing he was an atheist – Richard didn’t appreciate that and set the record straight and right fully so. Once again your an idiot…

  89. Mike says: Sep 28, 2010 11:51 AM

    You would

  90. AnimalMother42 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:52 AM

    Where i disagree with Florio for posting on here about religion…I think that Richard Tillman’s comments were more about how political positions will latch onto covenient footholds that makes them (politicians) look saintly and human for the g’damn VOTE!…essentially to find arguements that tug at the hearts of people for that vote…..HMMMM I wonder if John McCain was looking to run for President anytime in the near future again from that funeral…hmmm weird…

  91. hineswardcriesafterfumbling says: Sep 28, 2010 11:55 AM

    Brennan Manning said that the greatest cause of Atheism is Christians who deny Christ by their lifestyles.
    Apparently, Pat Tillman was an atheist. For John McCain or anyone else to attend his memorial and talk about him being with God, is incredibly disrespectful and for a believing Christian, is untrue.
    So by making a comment like that, you’re not only insulting a man who died in a ridiculous war at his memorial service, but you’re spitting in the face of the religion you profess.
    If you believe, then believe and do it faithfully (which doesn’t mean spewing hate or burning books).
    If you don’t believe, then don’t. (Again, spewing hate and saying, “there is no god” is about as effective as people screaming “you’re going to hell.”)
    If you’re in between, don’t let fanatics on either side deter you. If you’re searching for Christ, don’t let “christians” get in the way.

  92. EverybodyGotAIDS says: Sep 28, 2010 11:57 AM

    Wow, I think everything that needed to be said has already been said…but I’ll repeat the most important part: Florio, you’re an idiot.
    If you want to look at a scale of our society, and on one hand you have people forcing religion on you, and on the other side you have people for a lack of religion on you…….which way do you think it’s tipping?
    Do you think it’s even close? They have buildings made for religion. TV Networks. Radio stations. Publications. People screaming in the streets and on sidewalks………..when’s the last time you got accosted by an atheist on your way to the store? When’s the last time an atheist handed you a pamphlet on the street explaining how you’re not going to hell? Ever? That ever happen?

  93. MadScientist says: Sep 28, 2010 11:59 AM

    So Florio, you are a bigot and a coward. You think that only believers have a right to speak about their beliefs. Had you said that about Jews or Muslims you’d have been fired by now, and really you should be fired for such bigotry.
    You are also a coward about your beliefs if you think that anyone suggesting that your god is just a myth is enough to destroy beliefs. The only way that can be the case if your god is in fact just a myth, and you must suppress any other view points.
    You are also a coward because you won’t address this or apologize for your overt bigotry. Perhaps you should go to Faux News, where the theocrats live.

  94. Hayward G says: Sep 28, 2010 11:59 AM

    First off, good for Richard Tillman for telling it like it is. Religious fanatics throughout history have successfully brainwashed a majority of the population into believing in a make-believe deity and believe in things that are 100% impossible to prove in this lifetime (i.e. heaven, hell, god exists, forgives you, etc etc etc).
    Yet, in this whacked out world, people who DON’T believe in this “God” you speak of are considered the radicals? Call me crazy, but hasn’t science rendered religion obsolete already?
    Either way, you shouldn’t need a god (excuse me, God) to know right from wrong or that invading sovereign nations is wrong or that Pat Tillman became too dangerous for the powers that be and had to be “eliminated”, which is another red flag demonstraing how dangerous our government has become and how we are fighting a losing battle- overseas for their “hearts and minds” and at home against the military-industrial-Wall St.-petrochemical industrial fascist complex.

  95. Simon12345 says: Sep 28, 2010 12:00 PM

    1. I don’t even know why I read this post. It really has nothing to do with football at all.
    2. As has been pointed out, you have a problem with someone publically expressing a religious view (atheism), but then turn around and express a religious view yourself!
    3. What does all of this have to do with Albert Haynesworth, Bret Favre, Terrel Owens, or Crazy Legs Hirsch?

  96. Rex Ryan's Fupa says: Sep 28, 2010 12:01 PM

    How does NBC Sports feel about you using their web site to push your “intensely personal” religious views on it’s readers?
    Not only did you push your religion on us, but you hid your intentions behind this joke of a headline, “Pat Tillman’s brother wishes Pat Tillman had shot first”. You barely mention that quite in the article. You’re obviously entitled to your own personal views and certainly have earned the right to voice them, but this article was presented as a football article even if the subject is tangentially related to the NFL. This post should have been titled’ “Mike Florio Believes in God and You Should Too”.

  97. Niner13 says: Sep 28, 2010 12:02 PM

    Your inappropriate comments about your belief in a god — who cares — proves that there is indeed evolution of the species. It’s just that most of us are more highly evolved and accept the fact that we emerged from our knuckle-dragging forbears.

  98. PurpleNGold says: Sep 28, 2010 12:04 PM

    No one completely understands the science of life so we make up fairy tales to convince ourselves that we are in control of what we fear. Richard Tillman was right to state his observations in a realistic manner. War is not a game, but the advertisment specialists in our government like to tie army and football together as though it is.
    Pat Tillman’s life was wasted. He’s gone. He’s not floating around in the clouds with wings. He has been buried in the ground. Like many of our nation’s kids who died believing that they were fighting for our freedom while their commander-in-chief was busy reducing the freedoms of all Americans.

  99. NFCEast'er says: Sep 28, 2010 12:05 PM

    Everyone has a right to believe or not to believe. It makes no difference to me as long as you keep it to yourself. I must correct you on your wording. There is not one evolutionist I have ever read or heard that states that life on this planet happened “by accident”. Anyone that says so does not understand the theory.

  100. Chiefs2010 says: Sep 28, 2010 12:08 PM

    Bill Maher’s a joke.

  101. jdavy says: Sep 28, 2010 12:09 PM

    “If you choose not to believe in God, that’s fine with me. It’s your choice. But there are a lot of people out there, young and old and in between, who have yet to make a final decision, and I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.”
    —————————————————
    Really, Mike? Have you completely overlooked the countless programs that are on television that praise “God” and constantly shove a science fiction book with no merit down your throat as truth? What could possibly be wrong with programs that question the possibility of a “God”? Get real, Mike.

  102. Rick says: Sep 28, 2010 12:09 PM

    You’ve got the best football site out there. I’m going to miss it.
    RIP Pat.

  103. CT Pats Fan says: Sep 28, 2010 12:11 PM

    I think the context of his comments are important.
    He didn’t want people espousing God at Pat’s memorial service, when Pat didn’t believe in God.
    He said later, something along the lines of “I don’t go to a church and say it’s Bullsh–, so don’t come to my brothers memorial service and talk about God”

  104. chargerrich says: Sep 28, 2010 12:15 PM

    “I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.”
    But its okay to have all manner of crooked and delusional “prophets” being “spoken” too daily by a God and then spewing hatred, lies and biased opinions on television?
    Pot… meet Kettle.
    And Richard Tillman is right… Pat is effing dead and shouldn’t be and flowering it over with someone’s OPINION that he is now floating around with wings and happy is offensive and, in my opinion only, a delusional lie.

  105. AHS says: Sep 28, 2010 12:16 PM

    I’VE NEVER FELT MORE LIBERATED!!!
    I cannot understand why religious people always associate nonbelievers with misery and deviance! Perhaps that makes them feel more confident in what they believe. After 12 years of private Catholic school and 19 years in a pro-religious military, deployed from Serbia to Iraq and the ‘Stan, I’ve never felt more liberated than the day that I figured out religion is a security blanket and one that has caused countless periods of senseless destruction & carnage. The Agnostics and Atheists I know are very happy. I suppose it’s because you can go through life not having to feel guilty, ignoring hypocrisy, and looking at your newborn with the thought that “Sure, he’s cute but he’s actually a dirty, unworthy, disgusting sinner” Yeah, if I’m wrong, I’ll be sure to give god a big finger on the way down!
    Oh yeah, stupid thing to post on a football blog. When you went NBC, this blog lost it’s personal rights.

  106. txtumbleweed says: Sep 28, 2010 12:18 PM

    I feel very sorry for all the unbelievers with nothing to look forward to after this life. I have a vast universe created for me to explore for eternity. The creation it self cries out to all mankind that God is real and that is why there will be no excuse when they stand before Him and they are cast into outter darkness for eternity. I know there is a God because I met Him and His name is Jesus!

  107. John El Way says: Sep 28, 2010 12:18 PM

    This is a dumb post, Tillman chose to enlist and fight. He knew what the consequences could be. His brother should shut up, and so should you Florio. Why not talk about a bigger travesty. Like Fergie and Marc Anthony singing the National Anthem. I’m suppose to believe that there IS a god after witnessing this!?

  108. Stone says: Sep 28, 2010 12:19 PM

    This is by far THE worst post you have ever written Florio. Take your opinion on God and shove it. The difference between atheists and God believers is that the religious folks spend WAY more time telling people God exists and their religion is correct. If anything, its the atheists that aren’t shouting from the hilltops that there isn’t a God.
    All the people out there that have yet to make a decision are getting hit up every single day by the religious right. If the atheists can’t have an hour TV show on HBO, then you’re a fascist pig and your time would better spent protecting the Catholic Church from pedophile litigation.

  109. roadkill says: Sep 28, 2010 12:22 PM

    >> Religion ruined the world.
    Organized religion ruined the world.

  110. Drat says: Sep 28, 2010 12:28 PM

    Uhh, you just layed more religious BS on us than what Tillman did on that show. And your point seems to be people shouldn’t do that. Sense a discrepancy in rational thought here?

  111. methoderik says: Sep 28, 2010 12:30 PM

    Good job Florio for having the balls to post what you believe. Maybe wouldn’t have cracked on Tillman’s brother for doing the same, but whatever, your heart was in the right place.
    Some of the replies on here… wow. It is crazy some get so offended about the mention of God and those that believe in him.
    I pray for all you Non-believers! (That’s a good thing!)

  112. stillayinzer says: Sep 28, 2010 12:30 PM

    Tillman’s brother has every right to speak his mind and so does Florio. If Florio is a man of faith, I am guessing he felt compelled to speak up. Good for him. Sometimes, matters of faith trump what is best for business (in this case his website).

  113. prmpft says: Sep 28, 2010 12:31 PM

    good post – i agree – also, for those who are uncomfortable w/ it – i think you’re uncomfortable for a reason…

  114. Pestilence1972 says: Sep 28, 2010 12:32 PM

    Nice work Florio. The people that freak out about these types of thoughts are the same people that put the Darwinized Jesus Fish on their car.

  115. Florio Splorio says: Sep 28, 2010 12:33 PM

    That vaguely sounded like a Randall Cunningham, circa 1987, post game interview.

  116. way2cold says: Sep 28, 2010 12:34 PM

    Stick to sports.
    If you have to post some religious BS, it had better be sports related, like all the Tebow crap you kept posting. As for Richard Tillman’s comments, about his own family making you uncomfortable, grow up and change the channel if you can’t handle them.

  117. dtrance says: Sep 28, 2010 12:34 PM

    I hate it when people use the argument that life isn’t an accident, therefore god exists. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
    You are right that life wasn’t an accident, any high school student that paid attention biology can tell you that. Study biology beyond that and any rational person can infer that life was not engineered by a creator either. If it were, than I wish he would show himself. Those with faith are otherwise playing roulette in terms of which one of the many gods will damn us to hell.

  118. froggy says: Sep 28, 2010 12:35 PM

    I stand in general agreement, Mike, but still think you did this to gin up the web hits. It is really transparent.

  119. Florio Splorio says: Sep 28, 2010 12:38 PM

    How uncomfortable is it to come to the conclusion that there is no God and have someone shove it down your dead brother’s throat?

  120. roboninja says: Sep 28, 2010 12:38 PM

    Talk about a double standard. It’s okay for those “that have not completed their spiritual journey” to be subjected to religion, but having them exposed to non-belief is bad? Sounds like someone is having a hard time getting their kid to church.
    Don’t turn this into Proselytizingtalk.com

  121. penguininbondage says: Sep 28, 2010 12:38 PM

    Savagenation… the truth hurts. you pay your 10 percent each week so the church can pay off the lawsuits.
    You say people like me are miserable. Which is completely off mark. I just don’t swallow the pablum like so many others.
    You see I was taught to think and make decisions based on fact and common sense and not what some ass raping pedophile that wears a fancy get up each week preaches to the masses.
    If you support organized religion, you support the crimes they perpetuate.

  122. Brothaman says: Sep 28, 2010 12:40 PM

    For the record, I try to believe in God and am on my path but, posting this on a football blog will create drama and I don’t agree with your stance on the post.
    That said, … keep posting controversal topics because it inspires us to read the debating comments.
    Good job entertaining us Florio

  123. williamsbros says: Sep 28, 2010 12:43 PM

    The comments here really proved the vitriol that exists on the atheist left. We know that 70% or so of the country is Christian, yet the comments would have you think it is 60% atheist because every single one of them has to post their venom and rip Florio for posting something barely related to football.
    It’s his blog, he can post WTF he wants. If you don’t like it, then skip the post. And while you’re at it, explain how life began from a primordial soup, and then try to create life from no life in a lab and fail like every other scientist who has ever tried.

  124. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says: Sep 28, 2010 12:52 PM

    I can only speak from experience, but every time someone took a shot at me, or attempted to blow me up, they were talking about God while doing so. Religion is a cancer, a festering sore that will destroy humanity if we don’t continue to cut it out of our day to day lives.

  125. Gautam says: Sep 28, 2010 12:53 PM

    I agree with you. You believe in religion, alright keep doing so. You don’t believe in God, alright keep doing so. But don’t try to hammer your beliefs down somebody else’s throat!

  126. Skummyone says: Sep 28, 2010 12:54 PM

    Poorly thought out, especially for an attorney. Tebow can talk about his beliefs, but an athiest discussing thiers makes you uncomfortable enough to post this?

  127. pilot08 says: Sep 28, 2010 12:58 PM

    Props to you Florio, I agree with you completely.
    As Sir Walter Scott said, “Death is not the final sleep, it is the final awakening.”

  128. DC Guy says: Sep 28, 2010 12:58 PM

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t, and die to find out there is”.

  129. mwatso28 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:00 PM

    Good post. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and if you don’t agree then you are entitled not to read it.

  130. JustinD says: Sep 28, 2010 1:04 PM

    If anyone wishes to voice a complaint about the content of this post, you should send off an email to Florio’s bosses -
    nbcsportshelp@nbcuni.com
    Maybe they can explain to him the difference between football and proselytizing.
    Or maybe send off a letter to the big guy -
    Jeff Zucker
    President NBC Entertainment
    c/o NBC-TV
    3000 West Alameda Ave.
    Burbank., CA 91523

  131. MotorCityKitties says: Sep 28, 2010 1:05 PM

    Is it just me or do the ‘pro-god’ people sound dellusional and the ‘pro-don’t know’ people sound rational??
    It’s comments like this that sound completely insane:
    txtumbleweed says:
    September 28, 2010 12:18 PM
    I feel very sorry for all the unbelievers with nothing to look forward to after this life. I have a vast universe created for me to explore for eternity. The creation it self cries out to all mankind that God is real and that is why there will be no excuse when they stand before Him and they are cast into outter darkness for eternity. I know there is a God because I met Him and His name is Jesus!
    Tumbleweed has it all figured out, hahahaahahaha

  132. Ucalcal says: Sep 28, 2010 1:07 PM

    Florio,
    Did you watch Bill Maher’s show and see the whole clip? Do you know the circumstances when he said that “Pat is dead, not with God?”
    He said that at the funeral after politicains seeking office had turned the funeral into a political rally. Had Senator John McCain not made an a$$ of himself at the funeral and act like he and Pat were friends, then maybe his brother would not have felt that he had to remind people of what Pat’s beliefs were. It was Pat’s funeral was it not?
    Florio, I wonder about your posts as they relate to politics and “real issues” in our society. You seem to be willing to write without research and taking 20 minutes to truly understand the issue. Such as your discussion earlier this week on the labor issues and the upcoming elections.
    I believe before you continue to post on issues such as these, that you need to be committed to actually using the rules of journalism (you are a journalist now) and actually understand the issue you are writing about.

  133. dtrance says: Sep 28, 2010 1:11 PM

    williamsbros, why is the onus on science to debunk your faith?
    Science and religion have one thing in common, that is ignorance.

  134. Elyasm says: Sep 28, 2010 1:11 PM

    There are entire television and radio stations dedicated to pushing religion, and you’re whining about the handful of people who’ve happened to mention in public that they don’t believe?
    (Quoting Red)

  135. ghostrider says: Sep 28, 2010 1:13 PM

    I enjoyed this, Mike, and it had some memorable quotes. And since most every opinion that could be shared has been so I’m not going down that road but I did want to add a comment on this paragraph…
    “This isn’t a heaven-and-hell issue. I choose to believe that God doesn’t want us to suffer in life or after it, and that those who don’t believe simply see their existences expire at death. So maybe, in the end, the folks who choose to believe will receive at the end of their lives exactly what they had anticipated — and maybe those who don’t believe will receive the same thing.”
    That belief is called “Annihilationism” and sounds comforting but, unfortunately for some of my loved ones, it’s not the case. The Bible describes the lake of fire as “eternal fire” or “eternal punishment” many times. (i.e. Matthew 25:41-46).

  136. EverybodyGotAIDS says: Sep 28, 2010 1:14 PM

    txtumbleweed says:
    September 28, 2010 12:18 PM
    I feel very sorry for all the unbelievers with nothing to look forward to after this life. I have a vast universe created for me to explore for eternity. The creation it self cries out to all mankind that God is real and that is why there will be no excuse when they stand before Him and they are cast into outter darkness for eternity. I know there is a God because I met Him and His name is Jesus!
    ____________
    Heh. Did anyone else see him? Is he talking to you right now? ….is he telling you to burn down buildings?

  137. Bay Area 415 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:14 PM

    I beleive in GOD too Florio therefore I take the 49ers lost season as punishment for my sins

  138. wrath4771 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:19 PM

    Well said. Whether you don’t believe in God or think the Earth is 6,000 years old and we have put human brains in mice, let the person make the journey on their own. Religion and faith is a personal journey that doesn’t need a back seat driver.

  139. dixon_cox says: Sep 28, 2010 1:20 PM

    If I want your beliefs I will ask. Until then, football, bitch.

  140. glc1 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:22 PM

    jj jones says:
    September 28, 2010 11:37 AM
    “savagenation says:
    The greatest minds in the history of civilization; Einstein,DaVinci etc ALL believe”
    I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts.
    - Albert Einstein, The World As I See It
    JJ,
    He did not accept a personal God, but he did make statements that show a belief in a creator God.
    “In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”
    “I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”
    Albert Einstein

  141. EL Swami says: Sep 28, 2010 1:22 PM

    Penguininbondage :
    “If you suppoirt organized religion, you support the crimes they perpetuate.”
    Dude, really? Thats just an ignorant statement.
    Anyways, how bout some football….anyone? anyone?

  142. UnsportsmanlikeConduct says: Sep 28, 2010 1:24 PM

    williamsbros, if ignorance is bliss, you must be deliriously happy.
    Florio, leave religion and politics to the experts.

  143. troll_aikman8 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:27 PM

    Great post Florio. RIP P.Tillman.

  144. geo1113 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:28 PM

    @Niner13
    “It’s just that most of us are more highly evolved and accept the fact that we emerged from our knuckle-dragging forbears.”
    Where did they come from? And you can take that question back to every little thing we know. Where did the matter which sprung the big bang come from? We still don’t have an answer and as long as we are human, I doubt we ever will. If you don’t want to believe in God, fine. If Florio wants to believe in God, fine.

  145. hey-seuss says: Sep 28, 2010 1:28 PM

    Mike – remember to puff..puff…PASS next time.

  146. In & Out Burger says: Sep 28, 2010 1:30 PM

    First of all, I hardly think ripping Florio for posting off topic is exclusive to atheists or any other group.
    Second, Florio, I understand that you felt uncomfortable with someone pushing their atheist ideas in a public platform, but I don’t understand why? People push every religion when they get a public platform. Your hero Tim Tebow for example. I’m not saying there is a difference between the two, I’m just saying that you, at least on your post, omit an easily predictable side of the argument, which was probably your plan in the first place.
    Third, and I hope people read this far before mindlessly reposting me as an “atheist hater” or some other lowbrow retort, a lot of atheist miss the point on religion. I am an atheist, for lack of a better word, and I do believe that organized religion is a bad thing, but I have one major difference in my point of view than most atheists. I don’t think religion does anything special to be the evil it is, and it does a lot of good outside of it’s predictable evil. Any problem caused by religion, would exist if religion weren’t there. The people that exploit it for power would find something else to exploit for power had religion never existed. How lucky are we that most major religions, preach charity and good will towards people?
    My overall point, is that religion isn’t too blame for all the worlds problems, because, while it is frequently abused, it could be a lot worse.
    Ok, all that said, Florio, no one gives a crap about anything you believe on any subject ever. Our responses, including mind, would have come just as readily had you stopped at the facts of the story and not interjected your attention-whoring opinion.

  147. ArtModellsPimp says: Sep 28, 2010 1:32 PM

    Why would anyone put their soul at-risk, when salvation is there for the asking? Acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior…believing that He, the Son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected…is the only price to be paid for eternal life.
    The alternative is an eternity in hell.
    Pretty easy choice, really.

  148. doncherry says: Sep 28, 2010 1:33 PM

    You think that believers have exclusive marketing rights on the spiritual journey? Don’t you see the irony in publicly declaring your beliefs as an argument to why someone who doesn’t believe in god shouldn’t publicly declare theirs? And I espcially like the “…misery of non-belief” line. Not everyone needs the crutch of religion to get them through the tough times. Judge not, lest ye be judged Florio.

  149. skidoo44 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:34 PM

    Interesting that most of the athiest/agnostic argument is based on the hypocrisy of the post, while most of the “believers” are more interested in trying to crap all over the athiest/agnostics.
    Like this sampling from Williamsbro:
    “The comments here really proved the vitriol that exists on the atheist left. We know that 70% or so of the country is Christian, yet the comments would have you think it is 60% atheist because every single one of them has to post their venom and rip Florio for posting something barely related to football.”
    Lets disect this rant for a moment (I can’t even bring my self to touch his second and even more assanine paragraph).
    1. He relates athiesim to the left. Now I happen to be Agnostic and left of center, but i know plenty of Athiests that vote Republican. They want their money, not their jesus. Next he’ll call us communists because we don’t subscribe to his god.
    2. The percentages he sights are actually pretty close to correct. Too bad the Bill Of Rights exists, as Thomas Jefferson said (another agnotic) to “Protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority”
    This is a point Florio and Williamsbro may want to look into. In the US majority rule does not mean the minority cannot have their rights and beliefs (see the Muslim community center near the Former World Trade Center sight).
    We all have a right to our idea, and to sight one set of idea as having more merrit then another (which has far more emperical evidence) is fascist and has no place in our society.
    3. Finally he accuses us of venom while unleashing his own onslaught of bitter feelings (probably because his faith is not strong enough to be Christ-like, just Christian. . . )
    However if you look at the posts from the no-god folks, most of them are very reasonable and respectful and simply asking why the Pro-God voice is ok and the no-god voice is not.
    Some one pointed out the agnostic/athiest folks sound a lot more sane then the religious folks. Thats because questioning belief is a sane action. Questioning ones self is important, for believers and non believers alike. I have very good christian friends who are in fact Christ-Like, and they LOVE Maher. They would never allow his words to shake their faith, but they respect his right to say them. If anything, it brings them closer to their beliefs.
    The people who hate on maher, and dawkins, and folks like me, they CANNOT be that strong in their faith if they allow words to shake them so.
    Maybe its time they look in the mirror and figure out what it is they are really angry about. . . the Tillmans (true heroes) and Maher, or living a life of lies and half-truths in the church. . .

  150. ThePitts says: Sep 28, 2010 1:38 PM

    ProFootballtalk not Pro-Faithtalk

  151. VikesFan04 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:39 PM

    I think this post was a bad idea. Its one thing to report what Tillman said, but adding your opinion about atheism wasn’t a good idea.
    First, you’re taking issue with someone bashing religion or being an atheist…. on Bill Maher’s TV show? If you don’t want to hear that kind of talk, why would you watch it? Tillman was an invited guest and was asked to give his opinion on a show where atheism and bashing religion is a pretty common theme. Have you seen the movie “Religulous”?
    Second…I take issue with this line…
    ”I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.”
    Even though you said, regardless of the “desitination” I feel you are assuming that everyone’s path should lead them to God. Because if their path leads them to atheism, how does someone telling them there is no God, obscure them?
    Try looking at it from the other side. I am agnostic, but closer to the atheism side. There are TONS of people on TV constantly telling me there is a God. Is that obscuring my path? For example, isn’t someone grabbing a microphone and thanking Jesus for the touchdown they just scored, or the Superbowl trophy they just won, obscuring my path? And will you write that when it happens again?
    I really enjoy your site. It helped me win my fantasy championship last year. Leave the religious opinions off. Just my two cents.

  152. EverybodyGotAIDS says: Sep 28, 2010 1:41 PM

    williamsbros says:
    September 28, 2010 12:43 PM
    The comments here really proved the vitriol that exists on the atheist left. We know that 70% or so of the country is Christian, yet the comments would have you think it is 60% atheist because every single one of them has to post their venom and rip Florio for posting something barely related to football.
    It’s his blog, he can post WTF he wants. If you don’t like it, then skip the post.
    _________________________
    That’s the thing, though. I’m not like you (thank god – pun intended). Just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean I avoid it. I don’t surround myself with people who think exactly the same way that I do. I try to educate myself on the views of those who believe differently than myself. If I have something to say on the topic to you or anyone else posting here, or even no one in particular, just to get it out there, I’ll do it. That’s called debate or discussion. I know when you surround yourself and fill your life with people who think exactly the same as you do, and strive for uniformity in thought and opinion, people with different ideas or different beliefs can be “scary” or seem “deviant”. That’s not the case. It’s just different….and it’s ok. Just like all of your TV preacher heroes who are a little “different” in who they’re attracted to, it’s ok if I don’t believe in your god and it’s ok for me to say so. Also, 70% of people are christian? Nah. When the census comes around, I check christian because it fits moreso than any other box (even though I don’t believe in god or jesus, I still associate moreso with Christians than say Jews or Muslims). I haven’t been to church since I was 10 (outside weddings and funerals). Those stats are a little padded.

  153. spartyfi says: Sep 28, 2010 1:41 PM

    People that still need to believe in “god” in 2010 are more ignorant than the first people that “believed”.
    Look at the facts of this world folks and how they ALL contradict your belief in a book written by a bunch of uneducated folk thousands of years ago. It’s like me believing that Pinnochio is real and will come back to save us all, just plain ignorant!
    Some people say they know 2 things about religion: there is a god, and I’m not him. Well, I think that a load of crap, we’re all the Gods of our own lives!
    Religion, just plain IGNORANT!

  154. jester says: Sep 28, 2010 1:42 PM

    I’ve said it before:
    god is a concept……..
    think about it………
    There u just proved my point!
    How can we REALLY know what god is about when we, as humans, are still killing humans.
    Simple.
    I submit that what people really have is Faith & that gets turned into an idea, like the big man (or woman) in the sky
    Give it a break people , everything is made up including confession, Florio

  155. keithman says: Sep 28, 2010 1:44 PM

    I agree that you should believe what you want, however believing in G-d because you don’t believe life was developed “accidentally” is the equivalent of believing in magic because you can’t see behind the curtain.
    Do whatever you want, and be happy, but come up with a better reason than just ingnorance.

  156. spartyfi says: Sep 28, 2010 1:44 PM

    “think the Earth is 6,000 years old” – Anyone that “thinks” the Earth is 6,000 years old is more ignorant than I first suspected. If you want to argue PROVEN science then you are an idiot! The earth is 5billion years old, and that’s a fact!

  157. skidoo44 says: Sep 28, 2010 1:46 PM

    ArtModellsPimp says:
    Why would anyone put their soul at-risk, when salvation is there for the asking? Acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior…believing that He, the Son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected…is the only price to be paid for eternal life.
    The alternative is an eternity in hell.
    Pretty easy choice, really
    ———————————————–
    Dude. . . really? Your name is ArtModelPimp and you’re telling me about Jesus the Savior?
    Let me ask you something, has that boring old stock response ever once convinced some one who didn’t already believe your tripe?

  158. Ska4Life says: Sep 28, 2010 1:54 PM

    Florio, if you have even a basic grasp of evolution, you can easily understand how life this complex could have been created accidentally. What couldn’t have happened, with a grand creator/intelligent design, is all of the imperfections of life. (Ex: We have some structure in our bodies that evolved from fish that stretches a meter or two (I’m unsure of the specifics if you couldn’t tell), even though the two things it’s connecting are about an inch apart. The way we evolved caused the extreme round-a-bout path that we see it take. An intelligent creator simply would have made this structure as efficiently as possible, and therefore an inch long).
    Also, not everyone goes against the “hard sell.” Actually, the majority of the population does not. For more on this you can google ENTJ, or, more specifically, introverted intuition.

  159. roccorinaldi says: Sep 28, 2010 1:54 PM

    The Universe did not come to be from nothing. Gravity did not bring about the Big Bank from nothing. Gravity needs existence itself to be.(attraction beteen masses (Gravity) needs masses to exist first for Gravity to happen)
    There is a God.There is a Heaven and a Hell.Do Good and avoid Evil.Sin is not arbitrary.Sin hurts people.Sin is Evil.
    This life is just our journey not our destination.Do Good and avoid Sin.(Hell is BAD)

  160. PirateFreedom says: Sep 28, 2010 1:59 PM

    You should feel free to say anything you want as long as you agree with me.

  161. FrankZappa says: Sep 28, 2010 2:01 PM

    this is not about religion, it is about how Pat Tillman was going to blow the whistle on the illegal war and everything that goes along with it…he was dead serious about waking people up to the fascist imperialism that we support, and he was murdered by his own government to stop him…god isn’t going to save us, whether he/she is there or not, but we need to stand up and save ourselves before we are all wearing microchips as good servants to the wage-slave fascist state

  162. Topher says: Sep 28, 2010 2:02 PM

    I don’t get the logic that its not okay to interrupt a spiritual journey with one side. But it is okay to interrupt it with another.
    I also don’t think it is possible to interrupt a spiritual journey. It is all part of the journey.

  163. Kirburnicus says: Sep 28, 2010 2:08 PM

    Since we’re on the topic of religion…..When is the NFL going to crack down on the HUGE wooden cross that Mike Singletary wears around his neck during games ?

  164. In & Out Burger says: Sep 28, 2010 2:08 PM

    ArtModellsPimp says:
    September 28, 2010 1:32 PM
    Why would anyone put their soul at-risk, when salvation is there for the asking? Acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior…believing that He, the Son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected…is the only price to be paid for eternal life.
    The alternative is an eternity in hell.
    Pretty easy choice, really.
    ___________________________________
    If the only reason you are religious is to avoid hell, than I would say you have about as good a chance of avoiding it as I do.

  165. muchmaligned says: Sep 28, 2010 2:09 PM

    Michael says:
    September 28, 2010 10:55 AM
    Accidentally? You call millions of years of natural selection and evolution an accident? It’s a scientific fact, ignore it if you choose, to justify your religion, but stop fostering YOUR beliefs on others in this space…
    ————————————————————
    Bingo! Specious post by Florio . So, those are the only two options: Belief in God or accident? This is why people who are not knowledgeable about a subject should not broach it. Just because you believe in something, that doesn’t make you knowledgeable.

  166. FLORIO_IS_A_SELLOUT says: Sep 28, 2010 2:16 PM

    Would God really let Donny Mac 5 blow Chunky Soup all over Alltel Stadium?

  167. SATAN says: Sep 28, 2010 2:18 PM

    The Most Hypocritical post I have ever seen MF post in all my time on this site. I’ll close with the Ghandi Quote
    I like Christ
    I do not like Christians
    They are so unlike Christ

  168. jester says: Sep 28, 2010 2:19 PM

    I’ve said it before:
    god is a concept……..
    think about it………
    There u just proved my point!
    How can we REALLY know what god is about when we, as humans, are still killing humans.
    Simple.
    I submit that what people really have is Faith & that gets turned into an idea, like the big man (or woman) in the sky
    Give it a break people , everything is made up including confession, Florio

  169. Mike Daly says: Sep 28, 2010 2:19 PM

    FrankZappa – are you for real?
    1 – It wasn’t an illegal war.
    2 – There is no such thing as fascist imperialism (Islamo-Arab imperialism is what exists).
    3 – Pat Tillman died in a tragic accident during a firefight with said Islamo-Arab enemy.
    chargerrich – Richard Tillman is wrong.
    PurpleNGold – that never happened; there was no reduction in freedoms. “War is not a game.” Well tell me something those kids DON’T know.

  170. Hawkfan50 says: Sep 28, 2010 2:20 PM

    Florio , that is absolutely the most intelligent thing I’ve ever seen you write ! What people believe or don’t believe is what determines their reality ; always has been , always will be .
    Tillman’s brother is obviously angry – understandably so . The last I heard – and I don’t pretend to follow the story to be honest – Tillman was killed by friendly fire . Seems an odd thing to say that he wishes Pat had “lit those F’ers up” considering the circumstances .
    Pat Tillman made a life-choice for himself to leave the NFL and join the service to fight for his country . The man understood the consequences of his choices when he made them .
    God rest his soul .

  171. depleted_uranium_balls says: Sep 28, 2010 2:23 PM

    People are on TV all the time saying that there *is* a god, presumably before everyone has completed their spiritual journey. What’s wrong with the opposite? And read a Richard Dawkins book to get over that god thing.

  172. bigbarry says: Sep 28, 2010 2:30 PM

    Florio you should really google pascals wager…might give you a better understanding of what you seem to be trying to communicate

  173. Sourdough says: Sep 28, 2010 2:33 PM

    The Pentagon’s cover-up of the Pat Tillman killing at the hands of “friendly fire” is truly an embarrassment. Yet it just another cover up by W, Cheney and Rove. All three disgust me. Pat Tillman deserved better.

  174. cboatner says: Sep 28, 2010 2:34 PM

    “…(I do not believe that life as we know it could have been created accidentally)…”
    Mike, Life was not created accidentally;
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/darwin-never-knew.html

  175. Flimflam1 says: Sep 28, 2010 2:36 PM

    @ Roy Biggins
    Climb down off your high horse, boss. Unfortunately, all you do is visit and read what’s posted; you- like the rest of us- have no say in the content. You like it, stay and enjoy. You don’t like it? Go elsewhere. It doesn’t matter to me if Florio posts about football, religion, or animal molestation. I will read what I want and when I finally come across something that is offensive, I’ll leave. Simple as that.
    Understand, you’re here as a visitor. It’s not your site, otherwise it’d be called BigginTalk.com and you’d be the head honcho. But you’re not. Stop complaining about site content. Move on or move out.

  176. Dewey Axewoond says: Sep 28, 2010 2:38 PM

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    September 28, 2010 12:52 PM
    I can only speak from experience, but every time someone took a shot at me, or attempted to blow me up, they were talking about God while doing so. Religion is a cancer, a festering sore that will destroy humanity if we don’t continue to cut it out of our day to day lives.
    ___________________________________
    Funny, I’ve had the exact same experience (and the exact same feelings about it) with GOVERNMENT.

  177. the real deal says: Sep 28, 2010 2:41 PM

    Florio I think your ignorance has outdone itself this time. The articles on here are normally top notch (except for the spelling). However this time you took cheap shots at people.
    It is very ignorant to post *”I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s Richard Tillman or Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief”*
    How can you call them miserable for non belief? Some of the happiest people were never foolish enough to get involved in church and believe in themselves.
    Quote “*This isn’t a heaven-and-hell issue. I choose to believe that God doesn’t want us to suffer in life or after it*”
    Funny how yout think this God wants us to be happy, It is of this God’s church a pastor told my wife to divorce me (which they apparently don’t believe in) because I disagreed with some of his views. This church of your so called god made my life miserable, which probably makes you happy but is only proof this god could care less about everyone as people claim.
    Disgusting, Offending, and Ignorant post

  178. Iceberg Slim says: Sep 28, 2010 2:46 PM

    Religion is an embarrassing remnant from the stone age. Humans need to get over it and move on.

  179. CaptainMarvel says: Sep 28, 2010 2:50 PM

    Nice post Mr. Florio; off-topic but nothing wrong or offensive about it. Only problem is now we have a lot of idiotic comments about it.

  180. patpatriotagain says: Sep 28, 2010 3:07 PM

    “religion is an intensely personal matter that is manipulated all too often by people who have, for whatever reason, obtained a public platform.”
    ———————————————-
    So now let me use my public forum to go on a three paragraph religious discourse.

  181. ForceEight says: Sep 28, 2010 3:20 PM

    Florio, this is for you.
    “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
    - Stephen Roberts

  182. RokOutWitCokOut says: Sep 28, 2010 3:24 PM

    hey SPARTYFI…you can sit here all day and claim that atheists have morals, but the simple fact of the matter is they don’t. atheists constantly try to take down religion, instead of tolerance, atheists boast about hate. atheists r the most pathetic, stupid life forms on this planet, and the world would be a better place without atheist cock smooches like yourself. plus, 95% of atheists are homosexuals, which means they are not procreating, so hopefully “evolution” will work it’s magic and get rid of those atheist gays anyway. hold on a second, isn’t this a football site?

  183. Flyingelvislogosucksbringbackpatpatriot says: Sep 28, 2010 3:26 PM

    Just for the record, I am an agnostic. Now I feel better.

  184. Outlaw Jersey Whales says: Sep 28, 2010 3:26 PM

    I spent a minute reading this post. That is one minute closer to eternity that I shall never get back.
    To top it all off, I was still in the dark about what this harangue was all about.
    Then I went back and re-read these pearls of beatific wisdom whilst simultaneously listening to the intro score of “The Twilight Zone” (1959) and, voila!, I walked into the Light!
    Now, brothers and sisters, forgive me but I must be off to get my Mike Florio (TM) brand monks habit!
    I just need to ask for divine guidance as to whether I should get the Mike Florio (TM) brand haircut or perhaps go with the very reverential Tim Tebow (TM) friar job!

  185. bryguy says: Sep 28, 2010 3:38 PM

    To all of the people trashing Florio for this post- Don’t come to his site if you don’t like it. He made it, he can voice his opinions.
    If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.
    Florio- I just registered to Comment on this after being a daily visitor for 3 years. I just earned a lot of respect for you.
    This is easily the most comments I’ve ever seen on PFT. Nicely played, Florio.

  186. MOEfish says: Sep 28, 2010 3:43 PM

    Nice Florio. I like how you essentially bastardize the man’s words so that they are completely out of context just so you can use your “football website” (I will now use that phrase loosely when referring to PFT from now on) as a platform for pushing your own perspective on religion. It is particularly entertaining to read that you view religion as “intensely personal matter that is manipulated all too often by people who have, for whatever reason, obtained a public platform.” Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn’t saying that and then finishing the article in the manner that you did make you a hypocrite? Further, I get the feeling that the First amendment applies only to the devout believers in God and that atheist are free to disbelieve as long as they don’t talk about it. Give me an H….Give me a Y…..Give me a….ah hell, you know what is coming….Hypocrite!

  187. smilergrogan says: Sep 28, 2010 3:50 PM

    firstly, you use a quote taken out of context to hammer someone who has actually paid a price for the global ambitions of the country, while i’m thinking you never did.
    secondly, not only have you strayed from any semblance of the reason you got this platform, but to then say that while its perfectly o.k. for me to tell you there is a god, it’s not o.k. for you to tell me there isn’t?
    finally, the reason you use for that conclusion is this?
    But there are a lot of people out there, young and old and in between, who have yet to make a final decision, and I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.
    Now, why would their path be more obscured by one side of the discussion than the other?
    As for me, while i admire many of the concepts of the wholesaler of religion (principally treat your brother as you would want them to treat you), i can’t say i admire many of the concepts of the retailers of religion (reflected in many of the comments on this thread).

  188. chargerrich says: Sep 28, 2010 3:55 PM

    “think the Earth is 6,000 years old” – Anyone that “thinks” the Earth is 6,000 years old is more ignorant than I first suspected. If you want to argue PROVEN science then you are an idiot! The earth is 5billion years old, and that’s a fact!”
    Uh… actually the earth is speculated to be closer to 15 million years old and it is definitely not fact. So be careful how you represent “our side” of the argument.
    That said the earth is factually NOT anywhere near 6,000 years old and there is about as much proof in God as there is in Unicorns, Leprechauns, et al.
    The human mind has an intrinsic need to answer the unknown and that is why we have Religion. The idea of not having an opportunity for a paradise after death is hard to cope with.
    We must remember that thousands of years ago, Greek and Roman citizens and kings alike needed to know why lightning came from the sky so they envisioned and “created” the gods Jupiter and Zeus as well as all manner of stories and dieties to answer all their unknowns.
    I suspect that thousands of years from now (if we have not killed ourselves off) our decendents will look back at our forms of religion with the same amusement that we reflect on what is now called “mythology”.
    I would also add that there are literally hundreds and maybe thousands of different religions and beliefs practiced by mankind… and guess what? Even if there were a supreme being only one of these religions can be right.
    It seems so obvious to me that Occam’s Razor is in full effect here and yes some of you are delusional and/or a victim of the “herd mentality”.

  189. geo1113 says: Sep 28, 2010 3:59 PM

    @RokOutWitCokOut
    I do believe in God and I would much rather associate with spartyfi than you.

  190. OldDominionRedskins says: Sep 28, 2010 4:00 PM

    Seeing as how there are 165 comments at the time I write this, I have a feeling this article was made to generate hits. Nevertheless………….
    Religion is completely irrelevant with regards to the circumstances surrounding Pat Tillman’s murder.
    If given the relevant platform, as on Maher’s show, I see no problem with Richard vigorously pushing for his atheistic views in the manner of Christian televangelists or, as in some cases, Denver quarterbacks.
    It’s kind of surprising, Florio, that you don’t see the hypocrisy of your own article, but “that’s the mystery of free will, and the beauty of living in a free country,” isn’t it?

  191. DeweyGeddaroom says: Sep 28, 2010 4:11 PM

    Allow me to submit myself to be lead writer on the newest member of the PFT family of sites — RFT (Religous Football Talk). I am uniquely qualified as a graduate of Billy Graham University with an undergraduate degree in Sports Administration, 2 years work in the college’s Sports Information Office, and a Master’s degree in Theology.
    What better way to drive up PFT’s click traffic than by linking to scintillatingly detailed articles such as:
    - The Shame of Tebow’s sin (violating the Sabbath)
    - The Soteriological Implications of the Hail Mary Pass
    - Does God Hate Cleveland
    - The Samson Principle (and does this explain why Jared Allen has only one sack after his own personal Delilah had him cut off the Mullet)

  192. PurpleNGold says: Sep 28, 2010 4:46 PM

    @ Mike Daly
    The First Ammendment has been strangled, FBI SWAT raids in Minneapolis and Chicago show this. I will quote Coleen Rowley’s recent facebook post:
    Bruce Nestor of the National Lawyers Guild did a great job explaining the problem of the 1996 Material Support law, the Patriot Act enhancement to the Material Support which encompasses mere speech and the wrongly-decided Humanitarian Law Project vs Holder Supreme Court Decision in June. The raids on anti-war activists show the FBI is merely opportunistically abusing its discretion under these bad laws. One guy held a small sign that best summarized the pretext that has allowed the attack on U.S. citizens: “FBI: Stop clowning around. Find Bin Laden instead.”

  193. johnthehillboy says: Sep 28, 2010 5:03 PM

    “I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s Richard Tillman or Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief. ”
    How do you think atheists feel?
    Paraphrasing what he said was, “my brother, being and atheist, would feel so uncomfortable during this moment that I have to speak up. It is incredibly rude for anyone to claim to speak on my brothers behalf and talk about God. You selfish, self-aggrandizing, solipsistic, egomaniac, sons-ah-bitches! This is about me and my family, NOT YOU!!!”

  194. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 28, 2010 5:07 PM

    Florio, I want to congratulate you. after being a daily reader of this site for years i never felt compelled to sign up and add to the mindless comments at the bottom of your articles, but this time i had to. you are the man for writing this article, you stood up for your beliefs, and it is your blog, so screw all these jerk off atheistic idiots who are attacking you, and religion as a whole. Like RokOut posted up there, do any of these idiots who tell you what you can or can’t write work for NBC? NO, this is your blog, and you wrote something you felt necessary to be said. It’s quite simple to skip over a post, so i don’t understand why people don’t just skip over posts, anytime i see the name “Jerry Jones” or “Favre” i skip over the post. it’s as simple as that. i also agree with RokOut in his statement that atheists do not have morals. atheists are typically socialized by the beliefs of other moronic atheists like their parents, or bill maher, and they think it’s “cool” or “intellectual” to go against the norm, when it usually makes them look like the jackass anti religion elitist egomaniac that they are. anyway, nice job florio.

  195. Floriohatescincy says: Sep 28, 2010 5:23 PM

    RokOutWitCokOut – Dude, that’s really how you want to rep yourself while simultaneously claiming that atheists have no morals and are homosexuals, and that, paradoxically, you’re a good person?
    Hmmmmmm, I smell a closet dweller and an angry little man/boy/whatver you are.
    Few and far between are the people who post garbage like yours here, and that’s saying a lot. Way to rep “guy who talks WAAAAYYYY too much about cock eating and being gay to not be gay.” Very impressive. BAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!! What’s better, is that you’ll probably respond. I’ll be looking forward to tomorrow morning, thanks in advance for the entertainment.

  196. JerkStore says: Sep 28, 2010 5:37 PM

    The way you associate non-believers with “possible misery” is shameful.
    The rest of the hypocrisy has been covered well by others.
    I enjoyed the well thought out, respectful comments from both sides.

  197. mad555 says: Sep 28, 2010 6:03 PM

    Do the “believers” who are congratulating Florio(for what, I am not sure) see any hypocrisy in what Florio has written? If not just pretend florio is talking about not believing god and Tillman was. Do you see it now? Wow just wow. I hope florio responds in some way this article. I hope someone at least brings it up to florio on his weekly little chat thingy and he has the balls to respond.

  198. Ziffels says: Sep 28, 2010 6:05 PM

    Try it this way:
    “I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s George W. Bush or Mike Florio or Glenn Beck) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own belief. If you choose to believe in God, that’s fine with me. It’s your choice. But there are a lot of people out there, young and old and in between, who have yet to make a final decision, and I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is a God.”
    Cuts both ways, Mike. Stick to football.

  199. why now says: Sep 28, 2010 6:17 PM

    Odd sports article. Could understand the human interest side, but Florio wrote more about his religious beliefs than R Tillman expressed about his own. Pardon Tillman if he’s a little bitter. Save the sermon.

  200. Mud Hens says: Sep 28, 2010 6:24 PM

    Wow…what a disappointment. Florio, you have no bigger fan than me and I have been reading this blog for several years. But you lost me on this one. That was about the most hypocrital thing I have ever read. And for what, to put down the brother of hero who died for our country who didn’t want someone to diminish the horrible tragedy that was his brother’s unnecessary death? Wow.
    Everyone has their right to their own beliefs and to free speech. And being exposed to ALL of the various beliefs and positions on various subjects is the best and only way for people to shape and form beliefs and opinions of there own.

  201. Colts18 says: Sep 28, 2010 6:33 PM

    Most people dont even know why Pat was murdered. google ‘pat tillman opium’ they had him guarding poppy fields to make sure the drug kingpins shipements turned out ok. He wrote home complaining, and was setting up to have a big anti-war movement when he returned. Opium production was almost wiped out by the taliban until the US got there and started guarding their drugs for them. America chooses not to see this tho, what a surprise.

  202. Elyasm says: Sep 28, 2010 6:50 PM

    Which is better: living in possible misery or deluding yourself with fairy tales? I guess it’s true, ignorance is bliss.

  203. BigBear123 says: Sep 28, 2010 7:17 PM

    Try it this way:
    “I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s Barrack Obama or Reverand Wright) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own belief. If you choose to believe in Allah, that’s fine with me. It’s your choice. But there are a lot of people out there, young and old and in between, who have yet to make a final decision, and I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is a Allah.”

  204. BigBear123 says: Sep 28, 2010 7:20 PM

    Bill Maher is a glory hound with the best of them. He says stuff so people will pay attention to him. He states the obvious in his books as if he is the only one who knows it, and just adds some vulgarity.
    Living proof that you can say the most outlandish things and people will listen. Glenn Beck is too.

  205. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 28, 2010 7:21 PM

    all these conspiracy theorists trying to blame tillman’s death on “murder” by americans sound like the same idiots who blame W for the september 11 attacks. pat tillman was killed in a firefight with the enemy, yes he was killed by friendly fire, ACCIDENTAL FRIENDLY FIRE, he was not the only person fighting against insurgents who was accidentally shot in this incident, it wasn’t some well thought out assasination, it was a part of war, tillman signed up for it, and unfortunately he gave his life for his country in a tragic mistake. his brother is a disgrace of a human being, and i feel sorry for anyone who has become so disillusioned with life that they become atheists, i pray that all you atheists see the light and accept Christ. once again, congrats florio for speaking your mind and bringing up some valid points and inciting this debate, i always enjoy seeing atheists display their egotistical stupidity.

  206. bub4lyfe says: Sep 28, 2010 7:24 PM

    Florio, it takes balls to talk about such a testy subject like this and not be ashamed to stand up for your own beliefs, especially ones as intimate as religion. Very refreshing, cause I’m in college and nobody is ever allowed to talk about their religion… unless that religion is atheism.

  207. In & Out Burger says: Sep 28, 2010 7:33 PM

    All this discussion about Florio’s morality.
    Remember, Florio is just a news monkey. All he provides us is compiled information, and he is very good at it, and apparently all he is good at. I’m sure he feels he is a very smart person by getting people all riled up to comment on his absurd reasoning, but in reality, those hits are just a by product of his real product. He is a news monkey. Now, fill your only role in life and go get me more news.

  208. ronmexico says: Sep 28, 2010 7:37 PM

    Chiefs2010 says:
    September 28, 2010 12:08 PM
    Bill Maher’s a joke.
    ________________________
    You’re right. Republicans are the punchline.

  209. Dewey Axewoond says: Sep 28, 2010 8:11 PM

    ronmexico says:
    September 28, 2010 7:37 PM
    Chiefs2010 says:
    September 28, 2010 12:08 PM
    Bill Maher’s a joke.
    _________________ _______
    You’re right. Republicans are the punchline.
    _______________________________
    Maybe, but it’s the the Tea Party who will really “bring down the House” (and maybe the Senate, too).

  210. roccorinaldi says: Sep 28, 2010 8:36 PM

    The fairy tale is believing that all existence came to be from nothing. There must be an uncaused cause-God. There is only one God.God has revealed to us the existence of God.God is Goodness.God is truth.God is love(not lust).Natural Law reflects the goodness and justice and love of God.Doing good,justice,and love is cooperating with the Grace of God.Truth does not contradict God.God is truth.Evolution THEORY (as much of it that is true) is the result of intelligent design. The confusion and evil of humans comes from humans not God. All who cooperate with God’s grace can be saved.
    Also, miracles happen and the Devil exists.
    Do good and avoid evil and pray for faith.Give it a try.What can you lose.True Good is good in itself.
    But,by rejecting God (doing evil) you can lose everything.

  211. comment_submission_error says: Sep 28, 2010 8:38 PM

    You don’t like it when people get on television and say there is no God, but it’s fine for all the television preachers to say there is? At least you aren’t biased.

  212. In & Out Burger says: Sep 28, 2010 8:40 PM

    @bub4lyfe
    No ones allowed to? I don’t know what college you go too, but there is a guy who has a “support nazism” sign everyday on our campus, so I’m going to say you’re full of shit. If you are too much of a wimp to defend your beliefs don’t blame the college blame your own insecurity.

  213. Vickadelphia says: Sep 28, 2010 10:02 PM

    Hey Florio, did you even watch the interview? John McCain and Maria Shriver said that Pat was with god at the family’s funeral service. You are completely wrong with your assessment that Richard had no right to say what he said. The service was for his brother, to provide some sense of comfort and if he wasn’t religious then what is the point to talk about how he is with god? He didn’t walk on the streets and yell “there isn’t a god”. He was disgusted that public figures were using this funeral to push their own beliefs on people and you are time and time again missing the point when you go outside your realm of sports. Do us all a favor and continue writing about football and shut your mouth about things that have nothing to do with football and only cause controversy and disagreement. If you watched the whole interview you would have been disgusted with the military and the media, but no you choose one thing that Pat’s brother said and make the story about that. Not that fact that he was killed from 10 yards away and that his possession were burned. You are pathetic.

  214. nutnbutnet says: Sep 28, 2010 10:34 PM

    Dewey Axewoond says:
    September 28, 2010 8:11 PM
    ronmexico says:
    September 28, 2010 7:37 PM
    Chiefs2010 says:
    September 28, 2010 12:08 PM
    Bill Maher’s a joke.
    _________________ _______
    You’re right. Republicans are the punchline.
    ____________________ ___________
    Maybe, but it’s the the Tea Party who will really “bring down the House” (and maybe the Senate, too).
    ____________________________
    The “Tea Party” is a bullshit concoction of the Republicans and Fox News because the only thing less popular than a Democratic incumbent is a Republican.
    “Tea Party” darling Rand Paul wants a $2000.00 dollar deductable for Medicare. And no regulation on oil drilling and coal mining.
    Wake up, that’s reality calling.

  215. Ruvell200 says: Sep 28, 2010 10:58 PM

    Man, I honestly don’t care about this entire article, but only one fact has become blatantly obvious from these posts.
    We Americans as a whole are an angry, petty, soft, selfish, classless bunch. Do I know that Jesus/God/Allah exists and that by attending weekly mass I will go to paradise for the rest of my life? Obviously no, but does belief and following an organized religion hurt me? No…it actually betters my life and the life of my children.
    I can tell you this. When this country was “brainwashed” by the Christian religion, we only managed to control 40% of the world’s resources with 6% of the population, were in the best health, had the best educational opportunities and our economic model of the last 25 years is now building “crazy Christian” countries worldwide, Brazil as an example, into economic forces.
    It just amazes me that the “enlightened” minds today who discredit all organized religion sit here and shit on everyone with the nuts and moral compass to follow a higher power, and then look at the state of our country with no realization that the foundation of it is being crumbled by they themselves.

  216. ac1249 says: Sep 28, 2010 11:21 PM

    I am confused why a lot of you are comparing Mike Florio’s blog post to Pat Tillman’s brother’s interview on Bill Maher’s show. The way each of them are presenting their perspectives is totally difference and shouldn’t be compared…but in any case here is blog many of you may find enlightening http://www.canacommunity.org

  217. SaintsBucsPanthersSUKK says: Sep 28, 2010 11:26 PM

    The entity that most humans believe to be the creator of heaven & Earth is actually just a technologically advanced race of extraterrestrial beings that has visited this planet for millions of years. This information is all over that there internet.

  218. Gonzorot says: Sep 28, 2010 11:52 PM

    What is the point in atheism? You hope when you die you become a piece of dirt? At least it gives people hope and gave us a code of moral laws to follow.
    All these supposed Atheists will pray to god when they are dying of whatever.

  219. TheSleepness says: Sep 29, 2010 12:58 AM

    ok..so make up your own minds..he has an opinon like all of you…i’m missing the punchline…

  220. aikman8 says: Sep 29, 2010 1:19 AM

    Gained alot of respect for you tonight Florio when i read this. Good to know you are a believer willing to stand up for your values. Ignore all the losers making stoooopid comments, judging by the number of comments about this topic, you’ve touched a nerve, and that’s good. Let them choose not to believe … they will be the ones paying the price in the end.

  221. Because I Care says: Sep 29, 2010 1:31 AM

    JohnnyFromtheShore says:
    September 28, 2010 7:21 PM
    “and i feel sorry for anyone who has become so disillusioned with life that they become atheists, i pray that all you atheists see the light and accept Christ…………..congrats florio for speaking your mind and bringing up some valid points and inciting this debate, i always enjoy seeing atheists display their egotistical stupidity.”
    ————————————————–
    Saying that you will pray for us is about as egotistical and condescending as you can get.

  222. PurpleNGold says: Sep 29, 2010 1:41 AM

    Christine ODonnell is just one of several tealiban clowns running for election. Al-teada is a domestic terrorist organization funded by Koch and fellow republican kitten-eaters.

  223. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 29, 2010 10:46 AM

    hey “BecauseICare” , i am praying for you friend. i know that one day you will see the light, Christ will guide you to it, just open your heart and your eyes.

  224. jdg3 says: Sep 29, 2010 11:22 AM

    Some people believe in the big bang theory, others in God. to put it in simpler terms, I have faith in God while others have faith in a big rock.

  225. Jordiway73 says: Sep 29, 2010 12:05 PM

    FOR THE LAST TIME THERE IS NO GOD
    The only thing you have is a book written by people who swore that the earth was flat and if you sailed too far you would fall right off the edge of the earth. Religon is a tool to keep the mass population in line and under control.
    And another thing its always the religous people starting the wars killing people because they dont believe in the same god, funny how these same people try to act like they are so much better than everyone else.

  226. DEKesler says: Sep 29, 2010 12:23 PM

    I am an atheist. I have attended funerals of Christian friends and relatives. I would never stand up and at a funeral and tell the grieving family that the beliefs held by the deceased were wrong. It is just not the place and the time. John McCain came to the funeral of atheist Pat Tillman and told his family that their loved one was in heaven with god. Think about that for a second.

  227. Profanity in ALL CAPS says: Sep 29, 2010 1:16 PM

    Good to see the pft comment group truly making an impact on society.
    because when the world needs you, post a comment.
    /the more you know.

  228. sandy70 says: Sep 29, 2010 1:26 PM

    depleted_uranium_balls says:
    September 28, 2010 2:23 PM
    People are on TV all the time saying that there *is* a god, presumably before everyone has completed their spiritual journey. What’s wrong with the opposite?
    ———————————————–
    So you’re ok with public schools teaching creationism along with evolution then?
    You have the choice to change the channel…my kids don’t get that option.

  229. Floriohatescincy says: Sep 29, 2010 2:20 PM

    “hey “BecauseICare” , i am praying for you friend. i know that one day you will see the light, Christ will guide you to it, just open your heart and your eyes”
    Hey, fromtheshore, I’m thinking positive thoughts about you buddy, putting them out into the universe. One day you will see that there is no light, and your ability and willingness to let go of fear and fairy tales will guide you to it
    How’s that feel?
    Funny that the folks here claiming to be such perveyors of truth are only willing to hear one thing.
    And Sandy, Creationism? Really? Have you BEEN to the museum? Have you seen it’s head honcho? You ARE aware of what it purports as an accurate history of the earth? And you want your kids to be taught that in an educational institution? HOLY JESUS I feel badly for your kids!
    How’s that feel?
    Should I give anymore turn arounds to the bigoted high hose riding zealouts here? Or is it an excercise in futility? Guessing the latter? Ok then, CLING BABY CLING! And hope you’re right. :)

  230. toad says: Sep 29, 2010 3:07 PM

    The irony of this ignorant shlock astounds me. Take your own advice and shut up.

  231. chargerrich says: Sep 29, 2010 4:43 PM

    @ DEKesler
    John McCain went there to further his agenda first and foremost and did so with full knowledge that Pat Tillman did not believe in God.
    Further, your scenario simply does not compare because it was not your immediate family. His brother was offended and knew it was a play for the camera’s by McCain.
    For the record, I voted for McCain over Obama and think the man is a bonafide hero… that said, he did what most politicians do and he got called on it.

  232. Benny Mendenberger-Ward says: Sep 29, 2010 5:09 PM

    Studies have shown atheists and agnostics know more about religion than religious people. That tells me atheists and agnostics are losers and need to get a life.
    This was a bad idea Florio, real bad idea. Now every atheist and agnostic on the WWW is gonna come out and point out how big of a retard we all are for believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They love it, they get off on it. They are like Jehovah’s Witnesses, they will stop at nothing to try and convert you to have no faith by poking fun and ridiculing you for believing.

  233. Mike H says: Sep 29, 2010 5:23 PM

    “I don’t like it when folks who have yet to complete their own spiritual journey — regardless of the destination — have their paths obscured by someone on television who is telling them that there is no God.”
    I have the perfect solution to this: ban all proselytization to everyone except those who have completed their spiritual journey. I would take as reasonable proof of this completion the medical opinion of at least two (2) doctors that the person in question has no more than twenty-four (24) hours left to live. Then and only then should they be allowed to hear potentially path-obscuring proselytization. Nobody else should be allowed to hear anything path-obscuring. The world would be a better place.

  234. DoomsDayD75 says: Sep 29, 2010 5:28 PM

    Anybody that says they know for a fact how the universe was created and what happens to us after we die is a straight up liar. It’s literally impossible for anyone to know the “truth” about what is going on.
    But basing your entire life around books that were written thousands of years before man even had the slightest clue as to how the universe works is pretty silly. Those guys were sitting in the desert for centuries with very little knowledge and nothing to do. The very idea that there is an invisible being out in space watching us and judging us is pretty damn ridiculous as well.

  235. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 29, 2010 6:26 PM

    an atheist is barely human. it is like a half human, without a soul. hence, why it feels the need to attack real humans, it gets off on it, or as florio put it, they are full of misery. when i talked to an atheist i knew it told me i was an idiot and i told it that it was a moronic shell of a human being and that i would pray for it.

  236. Perception=Reality says: Sep 29, 2010 6:58 PM

    @JohnnyFromtheShore
    Your attitude is exactly what has been turning people off from organized religion more and more. Very condescending of you to say that someone who doesn’t hold the same beliefs as you is barely human. Can you prove to us that you have a soul? Can you prove to us that your god is the one and only true god? Didn’t think so! By your logic, anyone who hasn’t been exposed to your religion will be damned for all eternity. Doesn’t your Bible say not to judge? How about respecting the fact that everyone is entitled to hold their own opinions and beliefs? Some Christian you are….

  237. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 29, 2010 7:52 PM

    “perception”, there is a difference between an atheist and a muslim…i said atheists have no souls…i did not say anything about people of any faith. idiot. when your opinions and beliefs intrude on my religion i will respond to it, as florio did. go florio! i stand by my statement that atheists have no souls. i firmly believe this.

  238. DoomsDayD75 says: Sep 29, 2010 8:05 PM

    JohnnyFromtheShore is clearly home schooled.

  239. In & Out Burger says: Sep 29, 2010 8:07 PM

    Ok, just to be clear, coming from someone who has read the entirety of the new testament, 99% of Americans are probably going to hell if you take the bible 100% literally. If you don’t take it all literally than you are simply picking and choosing. And if you are going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to take in, than why not choose to take in Jesus’ most important rules, love your neighbor as your self (that means everyone, not just people you like) and love god. You either follow those two rules, follow all of them (and say bye to haircuts) or keep your mouth shut about it because you are a total hypocrite.

  240. Perception=Reality says: Sep 29, 2010 8:15 PM

    Reading comprehension not your strong suit huh? Nowhere in my post did I mention muslim or any other faith. You are judging people who do not hold the same beliefs as you. Are you saying Pat Tillman had no soul? Please enlighten the rest of us as to how you came to this conclusion…well, before you do that, please define what having a soul means to you. I’ll be patiently waiting…

  241. carsteve says: Sep 29, 2010 8:58 PM

    What if he said “Pat is dead, he’s with God.”
    Is that ok? Seems like you’d think it’s ok. I personally do not. Like you do not appreciate someone interfering with someones’ potential path toward faith, I don’t appreciate someone interfering with someones’ path toward the opposite. I would have found the above example I provided offending, like you found Richard Tillman’s comment offending. Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter what the majority if people have faith in. Bottom line is it should be left out of the media entirely. You and I both know that is totally unrealistic. So maybe refrain from commenting on the subject and we’ll call it even.

  242. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 29, 2010 9:35 PM

    it’s not judging it is concluding. i have concluded that all atheists are preachers of sin and it is my job to point that out and direct them toward the right path. one way to do this is to pray for them, so “perception” i will pray for you, and i know that one day when you become older and wiser, you will conclude that there is in fact a God, and you will be thankful. just like the many young dumb ass democrats who become Republicans when they become old and wise and realize how self and hypocritical the left wing is.

  243. This is not news says: Sep 29, 2010 9:41 PM

    Wrong on so many counts Florio, and I am not surprised at all. You should just delete this.

  244. thetruthhurts says: Sep 29, 2010 10:18 PM

    “You should just delete this.”
    I don’t know why he wouldn’t; he deleted my comment and all I did was post a few Bible verses for the other commenters to read.
    It was Judges 19:22-29, which tells the heartwarming story of the Levite who receives a traveller.
    As often happens in the Bible, a mob of freaks show up demanding to “know” the Levite’s guest.
    This would be a tremendous breach of etiquette, so he sends out his concubine instead.
    The mob gang rapes the concubine all night and leaves her for dead on the Levite’s doorstep.
    When the Levite finds her on his doorstep dead, he takes her corpse, cuts it into twelve pieces and sends them “to the twelve corners of Israel.”
    I mean, I can see you wanting to censor that. After all, it’s just Stone Age snuff porn.
    But I thought Christians were supposed to believe in this shit.
    After all, Jesus said “I am not come to replace the Law but to fulfill it.”
    So. Which is it Mikey?
    Will you let people read the words of your holy book this time?
    Or will you be so proud and stiff-necked that you refuse to honor the word of God?
    You know what happened to the Israelites when they were proud and stiff-necked, don’t you?
    Eh, prob’ly not…

  245. thetruthhurts says: Sep 29, 2010 11:22 PM

    “Studies have shown atheists and agnostics know more about religion than religious people. That tells me atheists and agnostics are losers and need to get a life.”
    Quite to the contrary, Mr. Ass U. Me.
    I know WAY more about the Bible than you do because for 20 years I was a Southern Baptist with serious Pentecostal leanings.
    I spoke in tongues. I handled snakes. I writhed on the floor in total religious ecstasy, screaming like a lunatic.
    I even drank the poison. It was just water with Blue #2 but no one knew that until they had the guts to drink it, then we all somehow knew to feign horrible stomach pain despite having drunk nothing but blue water.
    I know the Bible because it’s the only book I read between the ages of 16 and 30.
    Smarten up, jagoff. Most atheists and agnostics are that way because were former believers who gave themselves a chance to think the about the book as opposed to wallowing in the joys of unwavering obedience.
    Read Judges 20 and Revelation 9, then come back and let me know more about your god of peace and love.

  246. Kevin Huxford says: Sep 29, 2010 11:55 PM

    You’re so uncomfortable about discussing religion that, in an article titled regarding the quote about wishing Pat Tillman shot his killers first, you make 90% of the article have nothing to do with that quote and everything to do with the discussion of religion? Wow…a misleading title combined with hypocritical bullshit.
    For the record, I am a person of faith. But the “there is no God” talk was in response to McCain grandstanding at Tillman’s funeral. McCain was there to tap into it for his presidential hopes, as is evidenced by his lack of care or attention to detail when he tacked on that “Pat is with God” when eulogizing an atheist.
    In this context, this was probably the most understandable…nay…NECESSARY explosions of evangelical atheism on Maher’s show.

  247. bigbarry says: Sep 30, 2010 1:22 AM

    devout catholic here. first things first i have a lot of respect for atheists…..for the most part i find them to be thoughtful people who don’t just go do something because their parents did….secondly for all the evolution backers here, how come we never see evolution today? why doesn’t some monkey at a zoo all of a sudden stand up and say in perfect english, “enough with the dam bananas,” animals must have stopped evolving after a certain period(although i must say that i have seen some packer fans that have given me pause to this argument) i’m willing to listen, why don’t we see a continual evolution process, if we are indeed the top of the evolution process than the species below us should continually evolve towards us? make sense?
    also it is sad to see the people that think because florio posted something controversial that he should be banned to his own netherworld….kudos to florio whoever you are for doing something off pace that most people are unwilling to do in their lives(most just herd along and never step outside the box…think office space)

  248. j0hnny63 says: Sep 30, 2010 1:58 AM

    Pro. FOOTBALL. Talk.

  249. 55horses says: Sep 30, 2010 4:35 AM

    STOP pretending to understand what goes on in war unless you have spent at least 100 days waking up every morning knowing someone wants to kill you and may kill you that very day.
    And understanding you may have to kill someone that day.
    You still think war is some movie or video game. In war, you take a gun and kill a guy.
    Stop pretending you know anything about taking a gun and killing a guy. Stop pretending you know anything about religion. Your life is predicated on a game. Your living is made by commenting on people who play a game.
    STOP pretending you know anything about what you would do in a situation in which you shoot to kill or be killed.
    STOP pretending you do something important. You only comment on a game–that is your life’s work. Capiche?

  250. chargerrich says: Sep 30, 2010 10:38 AM

    secondly for all the evolution backers here, how come we never see evolution today? why doesn’t some monkey at a zoo all of a sudden stand up and say in perfect english, “enough with the dam bananas,”
    Was that a bad joke or do you really have zero knowledge of how evolution works?
    I am not going to write a novel on here to explain it but you might want to bone up on your evolution theory :D

  251. D says: Sep 30, 2010 10:49 AM

    There is no God.
    Signed,
    The Cleveland Browns Fans

  252. johnnylightning13 says: Sep 30, 2010 11:12 AM

    Yeah your initial instinct was right… STFU or go sit with Dungy the hypocrite.

  253. sandy70 says: Sep 30, 2010 11:41 AM

    Floriohatescincy says:
    September 29, 2010 2:20 PM
    And Sandy, Creationism? Really? Have you BEEN to the museum? Have you seen it’s head honcho? You ARE aware of what it purports as an accurate history of the earth? And you want your kids to be taught that in an educational institution? HOLY JESUS I feel badly for your kids!
    ————————————————
    If the alternative is so much more correct and compelling, why not have them exposed to it so they can make up their own minds based on what you purport to be facts?
    If it is so obviously wrong, as you claim, who gets hurt by a side-by-side comparison?
    I’m not advocating state-sponsored theology classes, just a fair acknowledgement and explanation of theories of the beginning of the universe.
    What are you so scared of? That everyone doesn’t walk in perfect lock step with your opinions? And to think, the very same epithets are hurled at the uber-zealous bible thumpers too.
    Google theistic evolution. Maybe you’ll learn something.

  254. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 12:09 PM

    @JohnnyFromtheShore
    You must have a severe case of ADD seeing that you can’t even finish reading a short paragraph. I’ll quote myself….
    “Please enlighten the rest of us as to how you came to this CONCLUSION”
    I’ll ask again, even though you probably stopped reading after the second sentence. How did you arrive at the conclusion that people who don’t hold the same beliefs as you are “preachers of sin”?

  255. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 12:24 PM

    “If the alternative is so much more correct and compelling, why not have them exposed to it so they can make up their own minds based on what you purport to be facts?”
    Because young-earth creationism is lunatic insanity, and it emphatically denies anything about evolution, “theistic” or otherwise.
    That “museum” teaches that the earth was created in six days on Oct. 23, 4004 BC (is that the start date? the finish?), that humans coexisted with dinosaurs and that Noah somehow got two of every animal on a boat half the size of the Japanese battleship Yamato.
    It would be like teaching your kids that 2+2=purple or that a square has 7 hats.
    It’s just that wrong.
    Theistic evolution is also wrong, but at least it’s not maniacal gibbering about people riding Triceratops.

  256. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 30, 2010 2:25 PM

    “perception” i thought that the answer went without saying…it’s not exactly complicated to understand how religion works, those of no faith are damned…that includes you, which means what the damned are preaching, (atheism) is sin. the fact that you are openly trying to convince people to lose their faith, is very sinful. like i said, i will pray for you and for all the other atheists on here.

  257. sandy70 says: Sep 30, 2010 2:29 PM

    “Theistic evolution is also wrong”
    Proof?
    What are you so scared of by offering alternatives to what you believe? You are as bad as the Bible thumpers your ilk rails against.

  258. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 2:53 PM

    “it’s not exactly complicated to understand how religion works, those of no faith are damned”
    You’re making strong assumptions about my beliefs so I’ll go ahead and do the same about yours. From your posts, I gather that you were raised a Christian, to have blind faith, and to fear God. Your father might even be a preacher who always taught you to be a good sheep. I’ll also go ahead and assume that you haven’t spent any time studying/exploring any other religions and are just following “the rest of the herd”. So please clarify, is it just people who follow YOUR faith that won’t be damned, or does it apply to all religions and only agnostics and atheists are going “down to that really hot cave with flames everywhere”?

  259. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 3:10 PM

    “Proof?”
    It’s not in the Bible.
    You take the whole Word or you take none of it.
    Not one jot or tittle shall pass. That’s not me talking. That’s Jesus.
    So, if you are indeed following the Savior’s divine salvation plan you must accept the entire Bible as a literal account of events.
    Including the six-day creation.
    Sorry. That’s just the way God rolls.

  260. moezilla says: Sep 30, 2010 3:27 PM

    So there I was last Sunday, waiting for the noon FOOTBALL game to start.
    Suddenly I realized that Sunday was set aside as a day of praise, by the Lord God Himself.
    Realizing my error, I left Terry, Howie, Jimmy, Michael and JB behind, feverishly searching for my favorite televised religious service.
    And what, before my eyes should appear, a 1 hour David Blaine special.
    And I figured, what’s the difference?

  261. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 30, 2010 4:13 PM

    “perception” you have used the term “enlighten me” or “clarify” many times now, and i have now come to the conclusion that you are just a flat out ignoramus. well considering the fact that you believe everything was created by accident, i guess i should have come to this conclusion earlier. like i said, you have no soul, so why should i expect you to have a brain? it seems you pick and choose sentences of mine, then twist them around to make ridiculous assumptions/arguments, which is something i have dealt with a lot with atheists. instead of admitting how ridiculous their argument is, i mean come on, the world just popped up out of nowhere? an atheist will bend, twist, and stretch words to try and somehow make it easier to understand that they are right, but time and time again, you make no sense. you ask me to “enlighten you?” it’s pretty clear that you are immune to being enlightened, maybe when you accept Christ you will be more susceptible to understanding simple words and not have to constantly ask more questions that have already been answered. lastly, assuming that all believers are the children of preachers is quite idiotic, isn’t it? looking at the numbers of Christians, or even those of other faiths, compared to the amount of religious leaders, (priests, pastors, preachers, sheiks, rabbi, monk, whatever doesn’t matter) will telll you that not every follower is the child of a religious leader. i mean, it’s simple math buddy…but creationism is simple science and that apparently didn’t convince you so..you are a lost cause.

  262. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 5:07 PM

    Normally, I would follow the advise of that old saying about arguing with a fool but…this is fun. Typical of many of your kind, you resort to name calling and dancing around the questions, instead of directly answering them.
    “So please clarify, is it just people who follow YOUR faith that won’t be damned, or does it apply to all religions and only agnostics and atheists are going “down to that really hot cave with flames everywhere”?”
    C’mon man, I’m giving you an opportunity to spread your gospel but you won’t answer. Have you taken the time to study other religions? I asked before with no response. I’m willing to bet that you have not and therefore you assume that your beliefs are the one and only way. You say that I’m twisting your words…anybody else agree with him?? I’ll ask you one last direct question (which I’ve asked many times before without an answer that makes sense….oh yeah that’s right, it’s not supposed to make sense, blind faith right?) According to your Holy Book, God created Adam, then Eve from his rib. Still with me? They went on to have two sons, Cain and Abel. Wait for it, wait for it……where did the rest of us come from??

  263. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 5:13 PM

    Sorry, forgot to address your last point. When did I assume that all believers are the children of preachers? Is reading comprehension really THAT difficult for you? Talk about somebody twisting words around. Maybe I should just type one sentence per post to make is easier for you. Read again….
    “YOUR (not every other believer’s)father might even be a preacher who always taught you to be a good sheep.”

  264. sandy70 says: Sep 30, 2010 5:31 PM

    “So, if you are indeed following the Savior’s divine salvation plan you must accept the entire Bible as a literal account of events.”
    Or you could believe it to be an allegory, since it was written prior to the age of science. Most religions have walked away from the literalist interpretations of the Bible precisely because of that fact.
    But I suspect you knew that and chose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your definitions of Christianity or your position on the origin of life.

  265. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 30, 2010 5:31 PM

    hmm..your Bible knowledge needs to be fine tuned. I find it laughable that you think Adam and Eve had two sons and then stopped procreating. I guess that right there clearly shows that an atheist should not use biblical knowledge as an argument, when they lack said knowledge. like i said before, you can keep repeating questions i already answered, it doesn’t boost your argument, it is your way of attempting to prove your idiotic theory of atheism by sidestepping your lack of knowledge and attempting to repeat questions to me that i have answered over and over. notice how i don’t ask you nearly as many questions as you ask me. because i don’t care about your answers, your answers are wrong, no matter how you twist words it still comes out wrong.

  266. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 5:49 PM

    Forgive me, it’s been years since I’ve been to Sunday school and even longer since I stopped reading fairy tales. So what you’re saying then is that we are all a product of incest?
    “you can keep repeating questions i already answered”
    You have yet to answer even one of my questions and you have not asked me one either. The reason I ask questions is because that’s what an independent thinker does, if something doesn’t make sense, you ask to try to figure it out. Sheep don’t ask questions, they just follow the rest of the herd….even if they’re led off a cliff.

  267. rarson says: Sep 30, 2010 6:13 PM

    So Florio is a creationist? Wow, I can’t believe people still actually admit that. Or say such stupid things like “life couldn’t have been created accidentally”.
    “I get even more uncomfortable when someone (whether it’s Richard Tillman or Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens) feels compelled to grab a microphone and seek company for the possible misery of their own non-belief.”
    Yeah, it sure is miserable being an atheist, let me tell you. Not having someone constantly accuse me of being evil simply for being human really sucks. Sleeping in on Sundays sucks, too. Another thing that makes life miserable is not believing in Santa Claus.
    “I choose to believe that God doesn’t want us to suffer in life or after it, and that those who don’t believe simply see their existences expire at death.”
    And I choose not to believe things that aren’t supported by evidence. Nice to hear that you take comfort in your delusions, but it doesn’t sound very healthy to me.
    “Either way, the reality is the none of us will know the answer until it’s too late to do anything about it.”
    Right. And we don’t know for certain that unicorns don’t exist, but I’m not losing sleep over it.

  268. rarson says: Sep 30, 2010 6:26 PM

    “i know that one day when you become older and wiser, you will conclude that there is in fact a God”
    It astonishes me that you can be so ignorant. Many of us atheists started out as theists, thanks to the common practice of indoctrinating children (which I consider to be a form of child abuse) and have changed our beliefs precisely because we became older and wiser.

  269. rarson says: Sep 30, 2010 6:33 PM

    “how come we never see evolution today?”
    We do, hence the reason for the theory in the first place. If we didn’t observe evolution, then we wouldn’t need a theory that explains how it occurs.
    “why doesn’t some monkey at a zoo all of a sudden stand up and say in perfect english…”
    That’s not evolution.
    “animals must have stopped evolving after a certain period”
    More evidence that you don’t understand what evolution actually is or how it works. You need to stop advertising the fact.
    “if we are indeed the top of the evolution process”
    We’re not, you need to go back to 7th grade science class.

  270. rarson says: Sep 30, 2010 6:52 PM

    “why not have them exposed to it so they can make up their own minds based on what you purport to be facts?”
    That’s not how science works. Reality isn’t democratic.
    “If it is so obviously wrong, as you claim, who gets hurt by a side-by-side comparison?”
    Children who are in school to learn SCIENCE, not religion.
    “just a fair acknowledgement and explanation of theories of the beginning of the universe.”
    Creationism does NOT fit the criteria for a scientific theory. For starters, the hypothesis isn’t even falsifiable, so that precludes any possibility of creating a theory around it.
    “Proof?”
    The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. In this case, it would be you claiming that theistic evolution is true. The great thing about crackpot claims is that they’re so easy to dismiss. If I claimed to be flying around town on a broom stick, and you didn’t believe me, responding with “Yeah, well prove that I wasn’t” won’t magically make it true.
    “Most religions have walked away from the literalist interpretations of the Bible precisely because of that fact.”
    No, actually the reason is because the Bible is full of errors and contradictions that don’t make any sense when taken literally.
    If we aren’t taking the book literally, then why even bother with it at all? What is the point of picking and choosing what to believe from the Bible? If you’re going to do that, then it might as well be any book.

  271. Perception=Reality says: Sep 30, 2010 7:34 PM

    Amen Rarson! (Yes, pun fully intended!)

  272. Floriohatescincy says: Sep 30, 2010 8:07 PM

    Thanks to rarson, perception and truthhurts for allowing me to ignore this infuriating thread to handle other matters. I could not have retorted better. The same cannot be said for shore, however, who consistently has dodged the questions asked of him while name calling and belief bashing. I’ll give you sir, my favorite line for folks who can’t engage in adult conversations. “Way to rep buddy,” highly impressive. I’m sure jesus would be proud of you, what with the judging and condecending and all. Further, because I can’t resist, it’s like putting a piece of bacon in front of me and expecting me to not eat it.
    ” like i said, you have no soul, so why should i expect you to have a brain? it seems you pick and choose sentences of mine, then twist them around to make ridiculous assumptions/argument s, which is something i have dealt with a lot with atheists. instead of admitting how ridiculous their argument is”
    Isn’t that what preachers, evengelicals, polticians and terrorists do? Take the bible/koran etc, out of context to fit their claims or needs? Regardless of how ridiculous those claims or needs are?

  273. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 9:54 PM

    Hey Johnny–
    While it’s true that Adam and Eve had at least one more son (Seth) after Cain and Abel, they are not named, and are nevertheless Seth’s blood kin, making us indeed all products of incest.
    Also, four questions about Cain:
    1. Who were all the people he was afraid were going to kill him so that God needed to mark him?
    2. Who was Cain’s wife?
    3. How did Cain found a city with no people?
    4. What happened to the civilization founded by Cain?

  274. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 9:58 PM

    “Most religions have walked away from the literalist interpretations of the Bible precisely because of that fact.”
    So you’re admitting the Bible is a fairy tale.
    That’s the first step!
    You’re on your way to sanity.

  275. onegreatseason says: Sep 30, 2010 10:07 PM

    Wow, a post partly about religion devolves into an argument almost exclusively about religion that generates 272 comments in 48 hours. How unusual.
    Now when do we get to talk about Breitbart?

  276. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 10:14 PM

    “Wow, a post partly about religion devolves into an argument almost exclusively about religion that generates 272 comments in 48 hours. How unusual.”
    We’ve so far failed to achieve a mutual understanding…

  277. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Sep 30, 2010 10:34 PM

    wow, just when i thought “perception” was the most miserable person in the world, “rarson” comes along to prove himself to be even more despicable. yet another soulless half human i will pray for. thanks florio! i guess it’s safe to say i win this debate, since prayer trumps ignorance any day of the week. boo ya.

  278. soupnazi says: Sep 30, 2010 11:43 PM

    skidoo44 – An utterly fantastic post. I had to comment after reading what you had to say, and now i’ll go back and finish reading the rest of the comments. I hope i’m not the first person to say something like this. Again, just a truly fantastic eloquent post.
    Florio – I hope this article finds you in hot water with your employers. This is nothing but hypocritical propaganda, and you should be stopped by security from entering the NBC building ever again. Shameful.

  279. thetruthhurts says: Sep 30, 2010 11:58 PM

    Hey Johnny–
    Also.
    ANSWER MY CAIN QUESTIONS YOUR HOLINESS

  280. Perception=Reality says: Oct 1, 2010 12:04 AM

    Miserable people resort to name calling instead of engaging in a rational discussion. By the way, don’t think we don’t notice you ducking and dodging questions. Ever consider a career in politics?
    And boo ya? Really??

  281. thetruthhurts says: Oct 1, 2010 12:22 AM

    “since prayer trumps ignorance any day of the week. boo ya.”
    Tough to tell which to side with here.
    I know you’re prayin’ for it. Whatever “it” is. Keep aiming for that rainbow, amigo.
    But it seems you might want to change tactics and start prayin’ for some understanding.
    Your colossal ignorance will reward a little edjamacatory supplication.

  282. thetruthhurts says: Oct 1, 2010 12:39 AM

    Myth: With god all things are possible.
    Funny, the 613 mosaic laws in the old testament tend to put a brake on that.
    Shellfish. Bacon. Cheese and meat together. 50/50 comfort knits.
    All abominations worthy of death.
    A shrimp cocktail appetizer followed by a bacon cheeseburger eaten while wearing a 50/50 comfort t-shirt?
    ‘Fraid the lot of you should just go out and kill yourselves and get the penitence underway.
    You’ve got an eternity to suffer.

  283. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 12:51 AM

    “prayer trumps ignorance any day of the week.”
    One need to look no further than you to see that this clearly isn’t the case.

  284. SmurfJuice says: Oct 1, 2010 1:06 AM

    Six hundred years ago, the people on Earth “knew” that the world was flat. They also knew that the universe revolved around the Earth. Today, if you make a funny face your face will be stuck like that. If you sit too closely to the television, or masturbate, you will go blind.
    What’s to say that tomorrow, someone won’t be able to completely disprove that this Jesus guy ever existed?
    Besides, isn’t the Catholic church a half-step away from being a cult? Change the grape juice with grape KoolAid, then call in the Bureau of ATF.
    Religion is an opiate for the masses. It comforts you, it soothes you, it guides you. Good for YOU. Not for EVERYone.

  285. TxGator15 says: Oct 1, 2010 8:10 AM

    I respect those who believe in God. I respect those that do not. Personally I like to think there is one, but Im not 100% sure, I guess Im a humanist (look it up).
    I do know a few things I believe in 100%.
    Bill Maher is an @$$monkey
    Smurfjuice will steal other peoples thought and present them as his own which makes him an @$$monkey too. “Religion is an opiate for the masses” What a load of trite garbage…

  286. VoxUcker says: Oct 1, 2010 8:54 AM

    There are basically four main entities that govern our lives;
    - big business
    - big government
    - organized religion
    - and organized crime
    All four have two things in common;
    - they prey on people’s fears
    - and they all profit from that
    Of the four only organized crime can be considered honest, as they are they only one that doesn’t pretend to be something other than what they really are.
    ie; if you borrow 10 grand from Lefty the loan shark and don’t pay up, he will break your legs, something he surely will have explained in advance.
    the other three? they just pretend to be your friend and guardian while emptying your wallet…

  287. VoxUcker says: Oct 1, 2010 8:56 AM

    Religion is strictly for insecure people who can’t handle the thought of their own mortality.

  288. BDiddy says: Oct 1, 2010 9:10 AM

    What a ridiculous article. Tillman’s brother said those words at Pat’s funeral in response to a couple of Republican politicians who, trying to score political points by playing up the god and country card, decided to inject religion into the discussion when in fact, Tillman was not religious. If you don’t want to be “talked down to” by an atheist, don’t go injecting God and politics into the funeral of said atheist’s kin. If you’re going to delve into matters beyond football, Florio, at least have a goddam clue what you are talking about first.

  289. BDiddy says: Oct 1, 2010 9:15 AM

    Johnnyfromtheshore, you are insane and not particularly bright. Keep praying, buddy, it’s your only hope, even if there is no god.

  290. BDiddy says: Oct 1, 2010 9:16 AM

    Johnnyfromtheshore, you are insane and not particularly bright. Keep praying, buddy, it’s your only hope, even if there is no god.

  291. BDiddy says: Oct 1, 2010 9:26 AM

    Some of the comments here are unbelievably stupid. Particularly the one which attempts to refute the theory of evolution by asking why monkeys don’t morph into humans before our very eyes. Wow. Dude, Darwin was not talking about Transformers. He was talking about a process that occurs over millions, even billions of years.
    If you really want to refute the theory of evolution, you’d be better off citing yourself as an example.

  292. VoxUcker says: Oct 1, 2010 10:14 AM

    BDiddy says: October 1, 2010 9:10 AM
    “…in response to a couple of Republican politicians…”
    You nailed it.
    Bible thumping Conservatives like to band together under the banner of self-righteousness while pointing their gnarly little fingers at the rest of the world while saying “look at the bad people”.
    Of course these are the same hypocrites who at the same time are cheating on their wives with page boys/

  293. chargerrich says: Oct 1, 2010 10:16 AM

    If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. – Isaac Asimov
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? – Epicurus

  294. KC_Cisco says: Oct 1, 2010 10:21 AM

    Faith. You have it or you don’t. I choose to believe I was created by love by God. Others choose to believe they hit the Powerball times a Powerball and were created. People will say its your fear or insecurity that makes you follow religion. What does it say about non believers–they’re OK that there their life is random? I don’t get angered when people have different faith–or lack of. It’s their choice. If I choose to believe–and I am wrong–what have I lost? Sleeping in on Sundays? Giving some of my money and time to an organization that feeds people. People can argue that wars are fought in the name of religion. They are not. They are fought for power under the auspices of religion. Money, oil, land. People who don’t believe–when you die–as we all will–what have you gained if you are right? The bigger question is what have you gained if you are wrong. God bless everyone–whether you believe or do not.

  295. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 10:50 AM

    “Besides, isn’t the Catholic church a half-step away from being a cult?”
    I wouldn’t say that. I see no difference between the Catholic church and any other cult, other than size. I’m guilt-tripped into entering a church about once or twice a year, and every time I sit through mass, it really seems like a bizarre brainwashing ritual to me. All the chanting, genuflecting, eating “flesh and blood”, etc. is so extremely cultish that it kind of weirds me out, and if you actually listen to what people are literally saying, it sounds laughable and insane. Theists typically take offense when I say that belief in deities is delusional, but when I listen to a church service, I hear people trying very hard to maintain a common delusion.
    All of this, of course, makes me ashamed to have actually taken part in it for over 16 years, but of course I can hold my head high knowing that I was able to break free from it.
    That Epicurus quote is a good one.

  296. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 11:05 AM

    By the way, Florio, I hope you notice the comments from the people on “your” side. You said:
    “This isn’t a heaven-and-hell issue. I choose to believe that God doesn’t want us to suffer in life or after it, and that those who don’t believe simply see their existences expire at death.”
    And that’s all fine and dandy (again, why you put so much faith into believing something that you just randomly decided to believe, I don’t understand), but that’s not what we atheists tend to hear from a lot of Christians, like Johnny’s comments: “those of no faith are damned.”
    That’s why we recognize statements such as this for the empty rhetoric that it is: “People are entitled to believe in God or not believe in God. That’s the mystery of free will, and the beauty of living in a free country.” You’re trying to throw us a bone by saying it’s okay not to believe in God, but telling us that it bothers you when we talk about it, while YOU are talking about your own belief, and even in the next paragraph calling those that don’t believe in YOUR god to be miserable. I think it’s the height of arrogance for a theist to sweepingly dismiss every other god in every other religion while claiming their own is real, like you did in this entire article. You and me are both atheists, buddy… I just believe in one less god than you. When you figure out why you don’t believe in all those other gods, you’ll figure out why I don’t believe in yours.

  297. KC_Cisco says: Oct 1, 2010 11:09 AM

    “The sum total of all possible knowledge of God is not possible for a human being, not even through a true revelation. But it is one of the worthiest inquiries to see how far our reason can go in the knowledge of God.” – Immanuel Kant
    “I have concluded the evident existence of God, and that my existence depends entirely on God in all the moments of my life, that I do not think that the human spirit may know anything with greater evidence and certitude.” – René Descartes
    ” This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?” – Sir Isaac Newton

  298. chargerrich says: Oct 1, 2010 11:27 AM

    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. – Stephen Roberts

  299. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 11:34 AM

    “Others choose to believe they hit the Powerball times a Powerball and were created.”
    Given 13.7 billion years and unlimited tries, I’m sure I could do that.
    “they’re OK that there their life is random?”
    Uh, no? Atheism is simply non-belief in gods. Does the fact that you don’t believe in Zeus mean that your life is random?
    “If I choose to believe–and I am wrong–what have I lost?”
    That depends on what you believe, and what you mean by “if I’m wrong”. What if we’re both wrong, and you picked the wrong religion, and “God” wants to punish you for it the same as me? Sounds like you’d be getting the short end of the stick. Again, the arrogance of the belief in a personal deity rears its head by ignoring the thousands of other gods postulated to exist.
    At any rate, I absolutely refuse to worship a being that says it loves me unconditionally, puts me on Earth, gives me intelligence, and then punishes me for using it (especially one who is supposedly omnipotent, who would have therefore already known the result of such self-defeating stupidity). In that case, I’d rather be in hell. I believe it was Mark Twain who said something to the effect of “Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.”

  300. Perception=Reality says: Oct 1, 2010 11:37 AM

    I’m really disappointed. I logged on this morning expecting more fascinating quotes from Johnnyfrom theshore but he must be tired from all that ducking and dodging. He’s certainly not tired from thinking for himself, we know that much. Hopefully he finds the courage to come back and continue this discussion. It’ll make my Friday go by so much faster…

  301. Popeye says: Oct 1, 2010 11:44 AM

    it sucks this was friendly fire

  302. thirdandgoal says: Oct 1, 2010 11:44 AM

    I know how to settle this– if the Lions beat the Packers on Sunday, there must be a God, because only God can perform miracles! Lighten up, people. You are all missing the big picture– just be grateful that you happen to live in a society where you’re free to have this little debate without fear of persecution or censorship. True wisdom is unbiased understanding, not necessarily an accumulation of knowledge and/or beliefs.

  303. BDiddy says: Oct 1, 2010 11:44 AM

    KC_Cisco, if you’re going to quote philosophers who unsuccessfully attempted to prove the existence of God using logic, then you should also quote the likes of David Hume who debunked (perhaps “obliterated” is a more appropriate term) each and every one of those half-baked arguments.

  304. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 11:47 AM

    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” – Richard Dawkins
    “It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true.” – Bertrand Russel
    “Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven….The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.” – Mark Twain

  305. KC_Cisco says: Oct 1, 2010 11:54 AM

    There’s a difference between believing and worshipping. I never said you had to believe in my religion. If you like Zeus–ride that belief out. All I said. Faith. Sounds like you believe in a god–just stopped liking him somewhere along the way.

  306. KC_Cisco says: Oct 1, 2010 12:16 PM

    There’s a reason its called faith. Prove to me that you love your wife. Or your mother. Or your boyfriend, if you’re a Shaun Smith fan. My quotes are just there to show that there are plenty of very smart and respected people in history–who believe.

  307. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 12:19 PM

    “If you like Zeus–ride that belief out.”
    Yeah, but you’re missing the point: Pascal’s Wager fails because it completely ignores every other god. It only considers whether you are right and I am wrong, or whether I am right and you are wrong, completely ignoring the other 99% of chances in which we’re both wrong.
    “Sounds like you believe in a god–just stopped liking him somewhere along the way.”
    Believed, when I was younger. The character called “God” in the Bible is fictional, and I’m glad of that, because he’s exactly how Dawkins describes him.

  308. BuckyBadger says: Oct 1, 2010 12:20 PM

    What Florio and many missed here is that Richard Tillman wasn’t pushing his beliefs. If you get the context of why he said this you would understand that he was only standing up for what Pat Tillman believed in.
    There were members of the Republican party having speakers who weren’t really invited to the funeral. They were all saying how Pat was with God right now and how he was in heaven. Richard than went to say don’t be coming to my brothers funeral and saying things he didn’t believe in. He’s dead…[rest of the quote.].
    So here Florio is saying that it is wrong for Richard to say his belief but fine when outsiders come to HIS brother’s funeral and push their beliefs there. B.S. Richard did the right thing expressing the beliefs of this family and his brother. I would want the same thing if/when I die.
    Christians have such a double standard it is not even funny. They can be so ignorant. Read books instead of burning them.

  309. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 12:20 PM

    “Faith.”
    By the way, faith is belief without evidence. I know religions consider this a virtue, but it’s really not. They just say that so that people will keep believing them for no reason whatsoever.

  310. CT Stiller says: Oct 1, 2010 12:27 PM

    It’s called freedom of speech, Florio. You exercise it regularly, so can atheists and religious kooks.

  311. Perception=Reality says: Oct 1, 2010 12:57 PM

    @KC_Cisco
    “Prove to me that you love your wife. Or your mother…”
    Seriously? All that can be proven through actions…not just words. If my wife or mother needed an organ transplant, donating one of mine would prove my love for them as I certainly wouldn’t do it for just anybody. All you can do is tell me He exists but can you show/prove it to me?

  312. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 1, 2010 1:50 PM

    Bdiddy and buckybadger, both of you used the term “republican politician” ummm…..last i checked maria shriver was a democrat….but this goes to show you how atheists ignore the truth and make up their perceived truths to try and prove a point. similar to rarson, who in more than one instance used a famous atheist quote without referencing or using quotes..making it seem to be his own words, rarson’s plagiarism leads me to believe that he/she/it is uneducated and did not go to college, no surpise there considering he is an atheist. “perception” is still engaging his tactics of bend twist and stretch while repeating questions that have already been answered.

  313. Perception=Reality says: Oct 1, 2010 2:21 PM

    Welcome back Johnny!
    Once again, reading comprehension not your strong suit. You should either read more (slow it down and take in every word that’s written) or just stop reading altogether. I prefer you do the former and keep posting as your points of view are entertaining.
    Please show us where either one of them referenced Shriver by name (who, yes is a democrat but is married to a republican). Which is besides the point anyway, because Tillman’s brother was upset at the fact that they referenced God at the funeral, he was not upset by their political affiliation.
    “perception” is still engaging his tactics of bend twist and stretch while repeating questions that have already been answered.”
    You keep saying this but have yet to show me how I’m twisting your words and you certainly haven’t answered any questions. Don’t worry, at this point I’m not expecting you to. It’s par for the course with others who hold beliefs similar to yours to not be able to answer questions and leave it all to blind faith….

  314. BuckyBadger says: Oct 1, 2010 2:24 PM

    JohnnyFromtheShore, it doesn’t really matter what party the person was from and wasn’t my point at all. My point was that there were people there pushing their beliefs at person’s funeral where it wasn’t wanted. I made no attempt to reverse any truth but to explain why Richard Tillman said what he did and why he was totally in the right to do so. I don’t care if it was my own mother saying Tillman was with God, it wasn’t the place for anyone to presume what Pat believed. You don’t go to a Christians funeral and say he is with Allah now do you.
    Sorry I am not making up any “perceived truths”. I don’t care what party you come from, they are nut jobs. I don’t vote along any party line. Voted for Tommy Thompson every time he ran in Wisco. I actually read up on who I am voting for [and most times I want to puke].
    This goes to show you how Christians or people of any religion will take one word and try to make it out to be something its not to prove something that simply isn’t there.
    Christians should read up on Horus. You will find that the story about JC is just like the movie Avatar. A rip off of a previously told story.

  315. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 2:41 PM

    “similar to rarson, who in more than one instance used a famous atheist quote without referencing or using quotes”
    Guess what? I had heard the quote before, but couldn’t remember who said it, and I was paraphrasing anyway. The point of the quote was more important to me than mentioning who said it.
    So I’d say, since that’s the only criticism of me that you can come up with, I’m doing pretty well in this conversation. Clearly you didn’t have any response to the actual points I made.

  316. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 2:43 PM

    By the way, since you said “more than one instance”, maybe you could give me another example, aside from the obvious Stephen Roberts quote.

  317. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 1, 2010 2:57 PM

    “rarson”, i wouldn’t call anything you said “points i made”, it was all pointless, hence why it gets no response. if you are trying to argue against a God, you are not making sense. it is illogical to argue against fact, so i tend to ignore it when an atheist thinks he made a “smart comment”. to me, it seems like the dominant focus of your “argument” is to utilize famous atheistic quotes. you are an atheist soundboard that can’t think for itself. “bucky”, the fact that you are now backtracking and saying it’s not about politics shows how hypocritical you are. you openly made the statement that it was a republican politician, as did “bdiddy”, because you wanted it too seem like it was a republican doing something wrong. when in fact, it was a democrat and a republican doing something that was not offensive at all, and only a hothead douche atheist like rich tillman would have to make a scene out of it. “perception” you asked me when they referenced shriver? they didn’t, which is exactly my point, they claimed it was all republican politicians at tillmans event and i am pointing out that it was not, claiming it is not “political” but referencing party name is hypocritical. i will add buckybadger to my list of soulless half humans i will pray for. one day you will see the light my friend.

  318. rarson says: Oct 1, 2010 2:57 PM

    I don’t vote. In addition to being an atheist, I’m also an anarchist (I prefer the term “anti-statist”). I’m just all sorts of “evil”.
    I used to be registered Republican, and I’ve voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. They were all a waste of time.
    But according to Johnny boy, we must all think the same way because we’re all atheists. As if we happened to arrive at our conclusion based on years of groupthink like he clearly did.

  319. Profanity in ALL CAPS says: Oct 1, 2010 3:09 PM

    note this day:
    the pft top 10 does not include brett favre OR the vikings.
    wow. never thought it would happen.

  320. Perception=Reality says: Oct 1, 2010 3:35 PM

    Rarson, you and I think a lot alike. We should start our own “religion”….
    Ok, Johnny this WAS fun when I thought I was going to be involved in a mature discussion about our differing points of view. Your “I’m right because I say so and you all are going to hell because you don’t think as I do” routine has been played out for a while now. Although I do find the following sentence you typed out pretty interesting.
    “if you are trying to argue against a God.”
    I thought in the Christian world it was just God, not a God. I take it that your issue with us is the fact that we don’t believe in any kind of mythical character, not just yours. Is that correct? Wait, why am I asking you questions…

  321. Scorin' Ace says: Oct 1, 2010 3:52 PM

    “The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.” – Thomas Jefferson

  322. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 1, 2010 4:03 PM

    rarson you asked for another example, you used a dawkins direct literal quote on faith, without quotes, implying that you yourself came up with it

  323. Dewey Axewoond says: Oct 1, 2010 4:11 PM

    Profanity in ALL CAPS says:
    October 1, 2010 3:09 PM
    note this day:
    the pft top 10 does not include brett favre OR the vikings.
    wow. never thought it would happen.
    ________________________________
    If a miracle like this can happen right in our midst, shouldn’t we all re-think our position about the existence of an omnipotent being/force?

  324. oruacat2 says: Oct 1, 2010 4:11 PM

    Forget the usual religious/atheist slapfight – the headline for this piece is misleading.
    Where does Richard Tillman say anything at all about wishing Pat “had shot first”?
    If Florio is a Christian, I suggest he brush-up on his own Commandments.

  325. BuckyBadger says: Oct 1, 2010 4:16 PM

    bucky”, the fact that you are now backtracking and saying it’s not about politics shows how hypocritical you are. you openly made the statement that it was a republican politician, as did “bdiddy”, because you wanted it too seem like it was a republican doing something wrong. when in fact, it was a democrat and a republican doing something that was not offensive at all, and only a hothead douche atheist like rich tillman would have to make a scene out of it.
    ————————
    No you made my point political in your own head, I never backtracked on the point of my post. You have to make that the point of my argument because you have no ground to stand on when it comes to what I actually said. I said republican because the article I read only mentioned McCain. Lets be clear, the action was what is wrong. It doesn’t matter who did it.
    Look at how you have to resort to name calling to defend the actions of your fellow Christians. You need to talk down to others to make yourself feel right. Doesn’t work that way. The better way would be to say they made a mistake [probably out of ignorance of Tillman's beliefs] and should have kept their religion to themselves. You don’t want to do that however. You want to tell people that your right and justify it with a deity.
    If it was OK for people to come a person’s funeral and push their beliefs than answer me this. Would you think it is OK for someone to come to your funeral and say that you are with Allah or Muhammad? Somehow I don’t think you would grant the same tolerance there.
    Bottom line was Tillman was an atheist. His family has the same beliefs and they didn’t want people to say things he didn’t believe in or wanted done at Pat Tillman’s funeral. Only a douche wouldn’t allow a person to have their own funeral the way they would have wished.
    Pray all you want. Its less productive than masturbation.

  326. BuckyBadger says: Oct 1, 2010 4:17 PM

    Also go read up on Horus. You will find out why so many churches hate the Rosseta Stone.

  327. BIG Dawg 303 says: Oct 1, 2010 4:36 PM

    Great Post!! Well put!!

  328. SmurfJuice says: Oct 1, 2010 6:59 PM

    “””Smurfjuice will steal other peoples thought and present them as his own which makes him an @$$monkey too. “Religion is an opiate for the masses” What a load of trite garbage…”””
    So, because I use one Marx quote in a long post, I’m using other people’s ideas and passing them off as my own? You are unbelievable. You post nothing that adds to the conversation, just detract from others. In that case, you are not even passing along others’ ideas.
    Apparently you don’t understand the quotation, because you too are too numb from the opium yourself.

  329. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 1, 2010 8:01 PM

    Bucky, just because you got proven wrong as a liberal who was trying to make a political issue by lying doesn’t give you the right to spout some bs about how you werent making it political. the comment was also directed at bdiddy. richard tillman turned a non issue into an issue by acting like the typical hothead that he is at his brother’s funeral. since there is a God, mccain and shriver have the right to reference that God at funerals, atheists don’t have this right, since what atheists preach is false. Get it? no you probably don’t, yet, but you will become older and wiser and you will realize the obvious fact we all saw all along, THERE IS A GOD. i resort to name calling when it’s true. i call atheists idiots because well…when you claim to be an atheist you practically have idiot tattooed on your forehead.

  330. bcb171 says: Oct 1, 2010 8:20 PM

    Although this post is a little self indulgent I believe its the first time that I find myself respecting you. Ever so slightly that is. You said the same stuff I would say on this subject.

  331. jjared1101 says: Oct 1, 2010 10:23 PM

    @JohnnyFromtheShore
    Can you please explain to me, without name calling, why an atheist would “practically have idiot tattooed on your (his/her) forehead?”
    I’m just trying to establish if you consider someone an idiot because they are an atheist or because they have an opinion that is different from yours.

  332. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 1, 2010 11:04 PM

    “jjared”, no problem man, i will gladly explain it for you. it is because they are an atheist. the fact that someone openly states this was all an accident and everything came from nothing is laughable to me. i personally feel that all atheists are actually believers, because it’s impossible for someone to actually think that nothing created everything, but atheists are just attention seekers and “rebels” who think it’s cool to be different. i’ll pray for you jjared.

  333. Buff_bronc_fan says: Oct 1, 2010 11:47 PM

    Should people also refrain from denying the existence of Santa Clause on TV because it ruins it for children?
    Your position is naive beyond comprehension. Don’t ever post about religion again.

  334. supermatt9 says: Oct 2, 2010 2:51 AM

    @Johnnyfromtheshore – do all of us believers a favor and stop talking.
    @Everyone else – Stop trying to debate with the poor kid. Winning an argument against Johnny is no better than making out with your hot cousin. Yeah she is super hot and it was a great make out, but you’d be ashamed to tell anyone about it.

  335. Brennan says: Oct 2, 2010 10:50 AM

    Uhh, there’s no way Florio wrote this.. There isn’t anything negative about the Bears.

  336. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 2, 2010 1:20 PM

    supermatt just exposed another problem with atheism, no morals, incest is rampant in the atheist community, matt just admitted to hooking up with his cousin.

  337. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 2, 2010 3:17 PM

    “supermatt” admitting you are into your cousin will never win a debate. that just goes to prove my point that atheists have no morals.

  338. rarson says: Oct 2, 2010 4:10 PM

    “it was all pointless, hence why it gets no response.”
    Everyone reading this knows that’s not the case, and can see clearly how you keep avoiding questions and changing the subject every time someone presents an even slightly challenging opinion.
    “to me, it seems like the dominant focus of your ‘argument’ is to utilize famous atheistic quotes.”
    That’s because you’re dumb. I didn’t even mention any quotes until someone else started throwing theistic quotes around. The one that I used and didn’t attribute, I mentioned because it was part of the argument, not just a quote thrown out there for fun.
    “it is illogical to argue against fact”
    So you’re stupid AND funny. Good combo.
    “you are an atheist soundboard that can’t think for itself.”
    Nice projection there.
    “you used a dawkins direct literal quote on faith”
    That’s not a quote, that’s a definition of the word, you idiot.
    “Where does Richard Tillman say anything at all about wishing Pat ‘had shot first’?”
    He said that on Bill Maher’s show, which Florio obviously didn’t want to link to, but you can see the whole segment on Youtube. It’s really good. Richard Tillman is a smart guy, and a real stand-up dude for having the balls to say what Pat couldn’t.
    “Bucky, just because you got proven wrong as a liberal who was trying to make a political issue by lying…”
    MAN do I wish I could be as self-deluded as you are. Ignorance is bliss, isn’t it?
    “ut you will become older and wiser and you will realize the obvious fact we all saw all along, THERE IS A GOD”
    No, there isn’t. Children usually grow out of imaginary friends, but apparently you and Florio haven’t yet.
    “someone openly states this was all an accident and everything came from nothing”
    Okay, so the first problem is that you have no idea what atheism actually is. Or, (more likely) you’re just setting up a straw man to try to insult people. You’re a real master debater, Johnny boy (I call you “Johnny boy” because you obviously have the intellect of a small child). I would suggest that you stop advertising your stupidity, but I know that you won’t.
    “that just goes to prove my point that atheists have no morals.”
    What you mean to say is that we don’t have an ancient book that tells us slavery and incest are okay, that we can’t simply ask magic sky daddy for forgiveness and ignore responsibility for our actions, and that we can’t justify whatever insane, cruel actions we want as long as we can find a Bible quote for it. Oh, and my personal favorite: standing by and doing nothing (ie “praying”) when someone needs actual help. Yeah, we don’t have that luxury either.
    I love the Bible. It’s the best argument against religion. All you have to do is actually read the thing, and you’ll see how messed up it really is. It’s just too bad that most Christians don’t.

  339. rarson says: Oct 2, 2010 4:18 PM

    “that just goes to prove my point that atheists have no morals.”
    Even your insults are drenched in stupidity. Apparently you can’t read, because supermatt clearly stated that he’s a believer.

  340. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 2, 2010 5:07 PM

    wow bucky, you are making it seem as though atheism is the dominant majority…”No, there isn’t. Children usually grow out of imaginary friends, but apparently you and Florio haven’t yet.” yeah, me florio and the other 90% of people who know the truth.

  341. rarson says: Oct 2, 2010 5:31 PM

    “you are making it seem as though atheism is the dominant majority”
    Popular doesn’t mean correct. Reality is not democratic.

  342. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 2, 2010 5:42 PM

    when your eyes open you will be kicking yourself for being so ignorant.

  343. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 2, 2010 9:00 PM

    i guess “perception” bowed out, i’ll chalk that up as a W on my victory board. boo ya.

  344. rarson says: Oct 2, 2010 11:15 PM

    “when your eyes open you will be kicking yourself for being so ignorant.”
    Believe me, I am. 16 wasted years on a religion that doesn’t even make any sense when you actually examine it.

  345. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 3, 2010 12:45 AM

    it makes perfect sense, like i said, OPEN YOUR EYES. Christ Almighty is your Lord and Savior.

  346. rarson says: Oct 3, 2010 8:31 AM

    No, it really doesn’t. You need to actually read your Bible one of these days.

  347. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 3, 2010 11:47 AM

    Our Bible, it’s not mine. it’s yours to, you will realize this someday.

  348. bigbarry says: Oct 4, 2010 12:47 AM

    to those who attempted to insult my intelligence in regards to evolution “theory” you have revealed yourself more than I. You didn’t really read my posts…by the way i have no clue how the world was formed nor how many years ago it was formed and as a matter of fact no one does not even your precious darwin who had as much of an understanding of the composition of the human body as those who claimed to be experts in earlier years thought the world was flat(that is to say that neither had a clue) to say big bang/ evolution you have to make as many assumptions to get to your conclusion as creationists do…i’m not sure that we will ever truly “know”, scientificly speaking, due to the passing of time and the decay of evidence we will always have to make large assumptions about the things we claim to know on both sides…and the funny part is that none of will know until it is too late to tell anyone about it….
    on another note i would like to hear some evolutionist(and from most of the writing i’ve seen here we have some experts apparently) thought on how one determines good or bad based on an evolutionary following(is everything completely egocentric or is there a basis for moral thought outside of organized religion)?
    ps my note made me think of something would believing in evolution kind of be a form of organized religion in it’s own right? You take darwin as your original pope and any scientist after that as your priest(or someone who conveys truths to you that are not discovered/realized by you)?

  349. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 4, 2010 9:13 PM

    Victory goes to the believers. Celebrate tonight boys for we finally shut those atheist ass grabbers up. BOO YA.

  350. rarson says: Oct 5, 2010 4:49 PM

    “to say big bang/ evolution you have to make as many assumptions to get to your conclusion as creationists do”
    Evolution has to do with the speciation of animals. It has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe or even the beginning of life. The Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution are two completely different things. Clearly, YOU have to make assumptions because you have no clue what you’re talking about.
    Evolution is not abiogenesis, nor is it the Big Bang theory.
    “thought on how one determines good or bad based on an evolutionary following”
    The same way that anyone else does: they pick and choose. You get your morality from the Bible because you chose it over all the other so-called holy books, and you even chose how to interpret it.
    “is there a basis for moral thought outside of organized religion”
    Of course there is. Humans tend to do similar actions, because those actions are evolutionary beneficial. For instance, since the time of cavemen, it’s been easier to hunt as a group instead of an individual. In that respect, it’s beneficial for survival that one not kill it’s own tribe member. It’s not a hard and fast, concrete assumption that no human will ever kill another human (obviously), but the majority of people feel that killing is wrong, and the Bible has nothing to do with it (I don’t do bad deeds because I feel they are wrong, not because I’m afraid of the possible punishment, which is exactly how it should be).
    I’d say that if you ARE solely acting a certain way because the Bible told you, that’s actually more self-serving because you’re only doing so to save your own ass from the threat of eternal torment (or whatever you want to call it). You don’t actually care whether something is wrong or not, you only care about the personal reward. So I’m not sure why anyone would even WANT to claim they get their morality from the Bible… I’d rather just be an inherently “good” person.
    “would believing in evolution kind of be a form of organized religion in it’s own right?”
    No.
    “You take darwin as your original pope and any scientist after that as your priest(or someone who conveys truths to you that are not discovered/realized by you)?”
    Wrong again. The current theory of evolution isn’t even Darwin’s theory, it’s simply based upon it (added to as new information is gathered). The only people that focus on Darwin are Creationists like yourself.

  351. rarson says: Oct 5, 2010 4:51 PM

    “Our Bible, it’s not mine. it’s yours to, you will realize this someday.”
    No, I mean your personal Bible. You need to open it up and actually read it and find out what’s in it. I have read it, a couple times. I know what’s in it. That’s why I’m not a Christian anymore.

  352. Perception=Reality says: Oct 5, 2010 7:09 PM

    Rarson, you make too much sense for Johnny’s level of comprehension. Try telling him what/when/where/how he should think. Better yet, write it down and label the cover as Bible part II, only then will he truly understand.

  353. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 5, 2010 9:48 PM

    Rarson, your lack of biblical knowledge is evident in the many mistakes u have already been proven wrong on. don’t claim to know what’s in it. when you understand what is in it, you will be a Christian once again. it’s clear that in your heart you still have Christian beliefs, you are just scared to open up to them. perception is in denial as well, which is why i have been praying for “it.”

  354. rarson says: Oct 6, 2010 1:08 AM

    “Rarson, your lack of biblical knowledge is evident in the many mistakes u have already been proven wrong on.”
    Right. Mistakes that only exist in your head don’t count.
    “it’s clear that in your heart you still have Christian beliefs”
    It depends on which beliefs you’re talking about. There are certainly tenets of Christianity dealing with how a person should live that I agree with, but the vast majority of stuff in the Bible is just garbage. It’s not even entertaining to read, which is the least I’d expect from such a popular fairy tale.
    “perception is in denial as well”
    That doesn’t even make sense.

  355. Perception=Reality says: Oct 6, 2010 11:44 AM

    Johnny, do you take every word in the Bible literally?

  356. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 6, 2010 9:10 PM

    rarson, it’s apparent you have never read the bible. when you do, you will be a believer again. “perception” is a username rarson, so actually, it does make sense. he is in denial of his faith and one day he will wake up and see the truth. this is why i pray for him. if you would stop focusing so hard on proving me wrong, (which you can’t do because well…i’m on God’s side and there is one truth, the fact of God), you would realize that “perception” has been your little lapdog

  357. rarson says: Oct 8, 2010 3:38 PM

    No, “perception” is a word, “Perception=Reality” is a username.
    “it’s apparent you have never read the bible.”
    You’re projecting again.

  358. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 10, 2010 6:35 PM

    you really don’t know who your lap dog is? the guy who repeats everything you say? or is it the other way around, i get you and perception confused..your both atheists, both of you have never read the Bible, and one day, both of you will be Christians.

  359. rarson says: Oct 10, 2010 7:15 PM

    “your both atheists”
    The word is “you’re”. It’s a contraction of the words “you” and “are”. “My both atheists” makes no sense.
    You really have trouble forming sentences, I see. It’s no wonder you’re so easily confused.
    “both of you have never read the Bible, and one day, both of you will be Christians.”
    I can’t speak for him because I don’t know him. However, as I’ve already explained repeatedly, I’ve read the entire Bible multiple times, both when I was a Christian and after. Take note of this fact: I already was a Christian. Been there, done that. There’s absolutely no reason for me to do it again.
    From your comments alone, it’s clear to me that you haven’t even bothered to read the whole thing yourself. So again, I ask you to stop projecting and take your own advice. The fastest way to become an atheist is simply to read the Bible.

  360. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 11, 2010 10:38 AM

    i find it hilarious that you have nothing to say anymore so you have resorted to insulting my internet short grammar, it’s not like we are all being graded on how we type here. no one has commented on your habit of starting sentences with the word “and” which is a grammatically incorrect thing to do. I continue to pray for you. you will thank me when you go back to your faith.

  361. rarson says: Oct 12, 2010 9:40 PM

    Word choice is something I learned in second grade. I think it says a lot about a person’s intellect when they can’t even tell the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
    I just glanced at a few of my comments and didn’t see a single sentence starting with “and”. Regardless, when I do that, it’s usually a continuance of a thought that someone else started, or otherwise I wouldn’t have used the word.
    I’ve already said what I wanted to say. It’s all right up there. Whenever you feel like actually replying to what I wrote, feel free, because as it stands, my comments are completely unopposed by you (other than your repeated and incorrect assertions that I have never read the Bible).
    Have fun praying for me; I’ll drink a few beers for you when I go out tonight.

  362. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 13, 2010 4:26 PM

    Well, apparently you didn’t look at your comment sent on September 30 2010 at precisely 6:13 PM, if you did, you would realize that in that jumble of clearly ignorant thoughts you started not one, but TWO sentences with the word “And.” Now, i would never have felt the need to point this out until you started running out of ideas and had to get all nit-picky on my internet grammar. do i really have to prove my understanding of your and you’re? i will chalk this up as a V for Victory since you are bowing out, thanks for admitting that you lost the debate, and good luck in your future endeavors, i will continue to pray for you, and i find comfort in knowing someday you will come to the conclusion that you were led astray from the flock, and you will then proceed to rejoin Christ’s faithful. May the Lord have mercy on your soul.

  363. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 13, 2010 6:00 PM

    I typically ignore most of your..(or is it you’re?) or is it yorr?? Anyway, I typically ignore your ignorant statements because responding to an atheist is somewhat redundant. Anyway, that being said, I find one of your quotes to be completely laughable. Correction, I find all of your quotes to be laughable, but this one stood out in particular to me. You stated that, “The fastest way to become an atheist is simply to read the Bible.” Are you serious? That is such a completely false statement that it is humorous. That one statement highlights your clear lack of theology as a whole. The Bible is the reason Christianity has the largest population of any religion in the world. Reading the Bible is what has inspired people across the world to embrace Christianity, not run from it. So why don’t you take your statement, and reverse it? If you really want to understand the fastest way to become an atheist, take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are no longer a believer. In my entire life, there is only one type of atheist I have ever come across, and you seem to completely fit this description as well. All atheists are faux “intellectual” types that like to mock the beliefs of their peers. This is typically the arrogant, selfish type of person who is so miserable in their own life that they resort to “believing” in atheism to set themselves apart from others and attempt to rebel against those who fit the norm. By riding on your “high horse” you are trying to build your low self-esteem by placing yourself above others on an intellectual level. The problem is you are actually bringing yourself down a pedestal. You can go on mocking my beliefs all you want but the fact of the matter is there will come a day when you wake up and believe. Good luck my friend, I will continue to enjoy life, and I pray that all miserable atheists will one day join me. :)

  364. rarson says: Oct 13, 2010 9:03 PM

    “Now, i would never have felt the need to point this out until you started running out of ideas and had to get all nit-picky on my internet grammar.”
    There’s a difference between aesthetic preferences for starting a sentence with the word “and” and using words incorrectly. Regardless, like I said, I think improper word choice says a lot about a person’s intellect (as does haphazard punctuation usage). Case in point:
    “I typically ignore most of your..(or is it you’re?) or is it yorr??”
    “thanks for admitting that you lost the debate”
    Seeing as how you haven’t even been able to comprehend half the sentences I (or anyone else, for that matter) have written, it doesn’t surprise me at all that you would say this.
    “Are you serious?”
    Of course I am. Any person of moderate intellect and reasonable ethical values would read the book and be completely disgusted with it.
    “Reading the Bible is what has inspired people across the world to embrace Christianity, not run from it.”
    I’m willing to bet that of the people that have actually read THE WHOLE THING, the majority of people (with moderate intellect and reasonable ethical values… ie, not people like you) have in fact turned away from Christianity because of it.
    “they resort to ‘believing’ in atheism”
    Yeah, just like we “believe” in aSantaism.
    “By riding on your ‘high horse’ you are trying to build your low self-esteem by placing yourself above others on an intellectual level.”
    You’ve got it wrong. I’m not placing myself intellectually above you (nature already did that for me), I’m simply pointing out how utterly cretinous you actually are. Actually, you’re doing most of the work for me.
    “You can go on mocking my beliefs all you want but the fact of the matter is there will come a day when you wake up and believe.”
    And prayer works, and God exists, and Santa Claus delivers me presents on Christmas, and Apple products aren’t overpriced, etc. I think it’s sad that you have to delude yourself just to find the will to keep living. Most of us atheists are actually enjoying our lives for what they are. I hope for your sake that one day you’ll wise up and stop wasting your life. Good luck!

  365. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 13, 2010 11:24 PM

    HEY RARSON, I CAN DO IT TO….”There’s a difference between aesthetic preferences for starting a sentence with the word “and” and using words incorrectly.”
    No, there isn’t. Both of them are ways to shorten internet lingo, thus both of them should not even need to be addressed, but you started it.
    “Seeing as how you haven’t even been able to comprehend half the sentences I (or anyone else, for that matter) have written, it doesn’t surprise me at all that you would say this.”
    You can’t comprehend the Bible, so i don’t expect you to be able to comprehend a paragraph.
    “Of course I am. Any person of moderate intellect and reasonable ethical values would read the book and be completely disgusted with it.”
    Over a BILLION people would disagree with you. (To give your small mind a hint, A BILLION is a heck of a lot of people.)
    “I’m willing to bet that of the people that have actually read THE WHOLE THING, the majority of people (with moderate intellect and reasonable ethical values… ie, not people like you) have in fact turned away from Christianity because of it.”
    See my above statement. ^ Reading the Bible has drawn in over a billion. Sure, a couple thousand atheists have “came out,” recently, but that doesn’t change the fact that they will come back to the right belief someday. You are making up numbers in an attempt to back up your claim, but a simple look at the “CIA World Fact Book” disputes your claim. The numbers of Christians are higher than ever, so please cite sources if you want to try and downplay Christianity, or other believers for that matter.
    “Yeah, just like we “believe” in aSantaism.”
    You don’t believe in atheism, you pretend to believe in it. Deep down you are a Christian.
    “You’ve got it wrong. I’m not placing myself intellectually above you (nature already did that for me), I’m simply pointing out how utterly cretinous you actually are. Actually, you’re doing most of the work for me.”
    You’ve got it wrong. You are at the bottom of the intellectual totem pole. When you explain how the “Big Bang Theory” started, you may gain a little, (but not much) more credibility.
    “And prayer works, and God exists, and Santa Claus delivers me presents on Christmas, and Apple products aren’t overpriced, etc. I think it’s sad that you have to delude yourself just to find the will to keep living. Most of us atheists are actually enjoying our lives for what they are. I hope for your sake that one day you’ll wise up and stop wasting your life. Good luck!”
    Prayer has done a lot for myself, and tens of billions across the world. This is your most ignorant statement of all, because you attempt to mock all religions but it really shows you for who you truly are. I continue to pray for you. Misery loves company, so why aren’t there that many atheists in the world? It’s an age old question.

  366. rarson says: Oct 14, 2010 5:03 PM

    “No, there isn’t.”
    Yes, there is. One is wrong, the other is personal preference. Grammar rules are both prescriptive and descriptive; in the case of your word misuse, the grammar is prescriptive, because the two words mean completely different things. In the case of starting a sentence with the word “and”, the grammar is descriptive, because most people prefer not to start a sentence with that word.
    Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way…
    “You can’t comprehend the Bible…”
    And potatoes are green! Oh, look, I did it again.
    “Over a BILLION people would disagree with you.”
    You need to learn how to read. Notice that I said people that have actually READ THE WHOLE BOOK (ie not you). Notice I also said people with moderate intellect and reasonable ethical values (ie not you). Notice I said “most people” (not all). Yes, there’s a lot of dumb idiots out there that haven’t read the whole thing and ignore all the parts they don’t like to cling to irrational delusions, just like you. The world is filled with idiots. Congratulations on being part of that herd. I wasn’t talking about morons.
    By the way, popular doesn’t mean correct, so I really don’t care how many people actually agree with the Bible. Your argument is a logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum).
    “The numbers of Christians are higher than ever”
    Yeah, so is population, genius. Brainwashing children works, who’d have thunk it? By percentage of world population, Christianity has been in a slow decline for quite some time now. And again, popular doesn’t mean correct.
    “You don’t believe in atheism, you pretend to believe in it.”
    Neither. There’s nothing to believe in with atheism. It’s a lack of a belief. Just like I don’t believe in Santa Claus (clearly that point flew WAY over your head).
    “Deep down you are a Christian.”
    You don’t REALLY believe in Christianity. Deep down, you are a Muslim. Ha ha ha!
    “When you explain how the ‘Big Bang Theory’ started…”
    That’s easy: some scientists were observing the universe and noticed that it was expanding. They did a whole lot more observation and some theoretical modeling, and then collected enough data to form a hypothesis. Then they tested this hypothesis repeatedly against the available evidence until they had enough information to form a theory. Same as any other theory, really. It doesn’t surprise me that you don’t know how the scientific method works.
    “Prayer has done a lot for myself, and tens of billions across the world.”
    When it works, right? And when it doesn’t, then God didn’t want it to work or something, right? I’ve got a name for that, it’s called “chance”.
    “Misery loves company, so why aren’t there that many atheists in the world?”
    You haven’t figured this out yet? Because atheists aren’t miserable, duh! Why do you think religion is so dominant? Because it makes people miserable, and then they (like you) have to drag everyone else down, trying to belittle them and scare them into buying into their crap by threatening them with eternal damnation. It’s pathetic, really. I feel deeply sorry for you.

  367. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 14, 2010 7:57 PM

    I proved how easy it is to take a person’s comments and refute them. In the case of rarson philosophy, you just simply use atheist disbelief as an argument against religion. That doesn’t make it true, it makes you pathetic. Your attempts to demean the truth are sad, and show how miserable you are. Here we go again…
    “Yes, there is. One is wrong, the other is personal preference.”
    Neither. One is internet shorthand and yours is structurally incorrect.
    “And potatoes are green! Oh, look, I did it again.”
    Sarcasm. This is a classic tool used by atheists to cover up their lack of a brain, (or a soul.)
    “You need to learn how to read. Notice that I said people that have actually READ THE WHOLE BOOK (ie not you).”
    You need to learn how to read, if you did you could read the Bible. You claim that people would be disgusted with it but the fact of the matter is that they are not. Those who have read it see it for what it is, the truth, a book of love, and a book of faith. Religion is what holds up moral society, and without it we would have people like you controlling everything. Now that would be a disaster.
    “Yeah, so is population, genius. Brainwashing children works, who’d have thunk it? By percentage of world population, Christianity has been in a slow decline for quite some time now. And again, popular doesn’t mean correct.”
    It is the world’s most populated religion. You are attempting to demean the views of over A BILLION. You can sit here and claim that Christianity is on it’s way out but it’s stayed strong for over 2000 years and still remains on top, so keep dreaming buddy.
    “Neither. There’s nothing to believe in with atheism. It’s a lack of a belief. Just like I don’t believe in Santa Claus (clearly that point flew WAY over your head).”
    Lack of knowledge.
    “You don’t REALLY believe in Christianity. Deep down, you are a Muslim. Ha ha ha!”
    You already admitted you are a Christian. Just because your relationship with God is on the rocks right now doesn’t mean it always will be. He is waiting with open arms when you are ready.
    “That’s easy: some scientists were observing the universe and noticed that it was expanding. They did a whole lot more observation and some theoretical modeling, and then collected enough data to form a hypothesis.”
    Clearly my point went way over your head. There is no possible way that everything could be created from NOTHING. Thus, the Big Bang could never have happened. God is definite and atheism is illogical and impossible. I don’t need you to explain to me the scientific method, but apparently you are incapable of producing some real knowledge so I understand why you took the route that you did.
    “When it works, right? And when it doesn’t, then God didn’t want it to work or something, right? I’ve got a name for that, it’s called “chance”.”
    A very bitter statement made by you. You don’t understand how faith works, do you? To compare prayer to the power of chance is disgraceful.
    “You haven’t figured this out yet? Because atheists aren’t miserable, duh! Why do you think religion is so dominant? Because it makes people miserable, and then they (like you) have to drag everyone else down, trying to belittle them and scare them into buying into their crap by threatening them with eternal damnation. It’s pathetic, really. I feel deeply sorry for you.”
    Okay, let me explain your logic. In the above quote you claim that religion is dominant because it makes people miserable. According to your logic, people strive for misery. It is actually the exact opposite. Why do you think pursuit of happiness is part of the Constitution? Religion has made people happy for thousands of years, which is why people flock to religion and get disgusted when someone says they are an atheist. Going back to what Florio said and I repeated, atheists are a miserable group of people who enjoy trying to bring down others. I get immense joy in seeing you try and make up answers to support your infantile views because I know that in your heart and mind you know that I am right.

  368. bigbarry says: Oct 14, 2010 9:27 PM

    (cough) gentlemen please allow me to step in for a moment and give two pieces of perspective
    1. you are both equal participating members in pascal’s wager.
    2. another old one: make sure that when you are arguing with a fool that he is not doing the same thing.

  369. rarson says: Oct 15, 2010 2:37 PM

    “1. you are both equal participating members in pascal’s wager.”
    How so? Pascal’s Wager is a complete failure. It relies on the assumption that the theist’s god is the only god that could possibly exist, completely ignoring the option of polytheism or monotheism in another context. Therefore, if the atheist is wrong, the theist still has just as much chance of being wrong themselves.
    “2. another old one: make sure that when you are arguing with a fool that he is not doing the same thing.”
    He’s not, I think that much is obvious.
    Although I sure hope my previous post didn’t get mangled or double posted, thanks to the cross scripting attempt that Noscript blocked.

  370. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 15, 2010 4:42 PM

    I would say that of all the posters on here, you rarson are the biggest fool of all. You have made up facts and misquoted/misrepresented the Bible in a mindless attempt to promote your own loss of faith. A faith that will someday return. You have attempted to correct my grammar while completely ignoring the fact that you can’t structure sentences correctly. You are in a completely delusional state about yourself. When you make an intelligent comment on here, I will acknowledge it, so far you have yet to form any kind of a coherent (or true) thought.

  371. rarson says: Oct 15, 2010 7:54 PM

    I had previously written a post replying to your earlier one, and it didn’t show up. Then I wrote a post saying that the previous one didn’t show up, and that I wasn’t going to bother typing it out all over again at this point in time. That post didn’t show up either (only the one in between did).
    If this post shows up, then I’ll rewrite my response later.

  372. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 15, 2010 9:19 PM

    Oh boy I can’t wait to read it rarson! More atheist propaganda!

  373. rarson says: Oct 20, 2010 8:54 PM

    “I proved how easy it is to ignore a person’s comments and deny them.”
    There, fixed that sentence for you.
    “In the case of rarson philosophy, you just simply use atheist disbelief as an argument against religion.”
    No, actually I used religion as an argument against religion.
    “One is internet shorthand and yours is structurally incorrect.”
    “Your” is not internet shorthand for “you’re”. You made an error, I pointed it out, and now you’re trying to argue your way out of it. I think we’re done talking about this.
    “This is a classic tool used by atheists to cover up their lack of a brain, (or a soul.)”
    Actually, sarcasm is a pretty effective tool for making a point, which is why people use it in the first place. (By the way, punctuation goes outside of the parentheses when the parenthetical is part of the sentence.)
    “Religion is what holds up moral society”
    No, it’s not. The reason you’re not a Muslim is you choose not to be. The reason why you get your morals from the Bible is because you choose to. All you’re doing is selecting which book fits your pre-established concepts of right and wrong. I’m simply doing it without the book.
    “You can sit here and claim that Christianity is on it’s way out but it’s stayed strong for over 2000 years and still remains on top”
    You stated that the number of Christians is higher than ever. I simply pointed out that as a fraction of population, Christianity is actually decreasing. By the way, by the turn of the next century, the number one religion will definitely be Islam. And actually, I’d prefer it to be Christianity.
    “You already admitted you are a Christian.”
    WAS a Christian. If I’m a Christian, then Christians don’t believe in God.
    “Clearly my point went way over your head.”
    No, it didn’t. Your exact words were “explain how the ‘Big Bang Theory’ started”, key word being THEORY. I explained to you how the THEORY started. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.
    “You don’t understand how faith works, do you?”
    We’ve been over this repeatedly. Faith is where someone tells you to believe something, and provides absolutely no evidence, and you believe it anyway. Prayer is when someone needs something, and instead of doing something about it, you do nothing in the hopes that magic sky daddy will fix it for you.
    “Okay, let me explain your logic.”
    Don’t bother, it was your logic to begin with. Didn’t you recognize your own argument?
    “I get immense joy in seeing you try and make up answers to support your infantile views because I know that in your heart and mind you know that I am right.”
    And I get immense joy in living how I want to live. Sounds like you’re the miserable one to me, Johnny boy.

  374. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 21, 2010 7:01 PM

    There you go with your structurally incorrect sentences again. Somebody needs to give you a lesson in grammar and theology. I understand why a person who doesn’t know how to form a proper sentence would have trouble reading a complex book full of values, morals, and life lessons. Hopefully someday you will be able to see the light. I will continue to pray for your soul, and while I’m at it I will pray that someday you master the English language. Perhaps the funniest part of your response was your attempt to correct my punctuation and my use of your. You can sit here and say it wasn’t internet shorthand but let’s see here, it’s easier to write your than you’re. I’d say that clearly fits into the definition of internet shorthand. I personally never judge someones internet grammar unless they judge mine first because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have at least graduated from high school and they probably have better grammar when writing a college essay than in an internet website comment. Typically when someone starts commenting on another person’s internet grammar it is because they have run out of things to say that actually contribute to their argument at hand. I realize that contradicts my criticism of your grammar but I am merely doing this to show you that you are not the language expert you portray yourself to be. I would have never brought up your inability to start a sentence properly or your other bad grammar habits but your arrogance forced me to. Now, most of your arguments in the previous reply made no sense.
    “Actually, sarcasm is a pretty effective tool for making a point, which is why people use it in the first place.”
    Sarcasm is not an effective strategy in debate. It’s immature, and is commonly used by atheists.
    “All you’re doing is selecting which book fits your pre-established concepts of right and wrong. I’m simply doing it without the book.”
    You seem to think very highly of yourself for an atheist. If you have any morals whatsoever, (which I don’t think you do), it’s because of your Christian background.
    “By the way, by the turn of the next century, the number one religion will definitely be Islam. And actually, I’d prefer it to be Christianity.”
    No one’s denying that fact. Better Islam than atheism.
    “Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.”
    You didn’t have answer for my question so you avoided the question with a childish response. Clearly answering questions intellectually is not your strong suit.
    “We’ve been over this repeatedly. Faith is where someone tells you to believe something, and provides absolutely no evidence”
    Let me stop you right there. There is plenty of evidence of the existence of God. Your existence is proof enough. The countless miracles that have been documented are also evidence. The incidents at Fatima witnessed by thousands of people are also clear proof of evidence. I have definitive faith. I know that I am 100% right and the evidence proves it.
    “Don’t bother, it was your logic to begin with. Didn’t you recognize your own argument?”
    I summarized your logic, not mine. Another point that went over your head.
    “And I get immense joy in living how I want to live. Sounds like you’re the miserable one to me, Johnny boy.”
    Your misery is clearly recognizable in your arrogant and demeaning statements. I will pray for it to get better.

  375. rarson says: Oct 23, 2010 5:03 PM

    “I understand why a person who doesn’t know how to form a proper sentence would have trouble reading a complex book full of values, morals, and life lessons.”
    There you go projecting again. Yes, it’s easy to see why you’ve never read the entire Bible.
    “Perhaps the funniest part of your response was your correction of my punctuation and use of ‘your’.”
    Fixed.
    “it’s easier to write your than you’re.”
    It’s also easier to write “pool” than it is to write “baseball”. Turns out, they’re two completely different words.
    “Typically when someone starts commenting on another person’s internet grammar it is because they have run out of things to say that actually contribute to their argument at hand.”
    Example: your entire first paragraph.
    “Sarcasm is not an effective strategy in debate.”
    It is to intelligent people.
    “If you have any morals whatsoever, (which I don’t think you do), it’s because of your Christian background.”
    Wrong. I don’t even completely agree with Christian doctrine when it comes to morality. Again, you’re ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions.
    “Better Islam than atheism.”
    Yeah, Islam is so much better than atheism. A man should be able to beat his wife if he wants to. I know you’re probably extremely sheltered, but you should look into how much the UK is enjoying Sharia law.
    “Your existence is proof enough.”
    No no no, my existence is proof of me existing. It’s not proof of a deity, let alone YOUR specific deity. Sure, there is plenty of “proof” (by the way, “proof” is a mathematical term) if you don’t care about the “proof” having any connection to what it is you’re “proving”.
    “I have definitive faith.”
    Yes, you believe something for no reason. I don’t doubt that at all.
    “I summarized your logic, not mine.”
    Try to keep up with the conversation, please. My comment was based on extending your argument to its logical conclusion. You really suck at reading comprehension.
    “Your misery is clearly recognizable in your arrogant and demeaning statements.”
    …says the guy who thinks that a century old story about a localized atmospheric optical illusion is evidence of his personal deity.

  376. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 23, 2010 11:12 PM

    I’m not sure what the point is for me to continue responding to someone with a skull as thick as yours. Clearly you lack the ability of even basic understanding.
    “There you go projecting again. Yes, it’s easy to see why you’ve never read the entire Bible.”
    There you go, using that projecting line again. The atheist debate techniques, accuse opponent of projecting, correct their internet shorthand, and be sarcastic.
    “It’s also easier to write “pool” than it is to write “baseball”. Turns out, they’re two completely different words.”
    Clearly you don’t understand what a homophone is. No matter what form of your or you’re is used in internet shorthand, anyone with average intellect can deduce what the writer was trying to say. To compare that to “pool” or “baseball shows someone needs to further their education.
    “Wrong. I don’t even completely agree with Christian doctrine when it comes to morality. Again, you’re ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions.”
    Ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions. Dare I use the word you are famous for, “projecting?”
    “Yeah, Islam is so much better than atheism. A man should be able to beat his wife if he wants to. I know you’re probably extremely sheltered, but you should look into how much the UK is enjoying Sharia law.”
    Non-radical Islamic believers have a set of morals. Atheists do not. It’s as simple as that. It’s not hard to rationalize that fact. Atheists choose to not believe an obvious truth so they can justify their selfish pursuits without having to be held accountable. You will realize this someday, and hopefully my prayers for you will help you out.
    “No no no, my existence is proof of me existing. It’s not proof of a deity, let alone YOUR specific deity. Sure, there is plenty of “proof” (by the way, “proof” is a mathematical term) if you don’t care about the “proof” having any connection to what it is you’re “proving”.”
    There was so much bs in that group of run-on sentences that I don’t even know where to begin. That’s an example of a not so smart person trying to sound smart but turning out to sound extremely stupid.
    “Try to keep up with the conversation, please. My comment was based on extending your argument to its logical conclusion. You really suck at reading comprehension.”
    You don’t believe that my summary of your logic was accurate but all you have to do is reread what I wrote and it will make sense. Oh wait, you don’t make sense out of reading facts so I guess I can’t help you out there.
    “that a century old story about a localized atmospheric optical illusion is evidence of his personal deity.”
    Tell that to the thousands of witnesses, or Sister Lucia.

  377. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 23, 2010 11:13 PM

    I’m not sure what the point is for me to continue responding to someone with a skull as thick as yours. Clearly you lack the ability of even basic understanding.
    “There you go projecting again. Yes, it’s easy to see why you’ve never read the entire Bible.”
    There you go, using that projecting line again. The atheist debate techniques, accuse opponent of projecting, correct their internet shorthand, and be sarcastic.
    “It’s also easier to write “pool” than it is to write “baseball”. Turns out, they’re two completely different words.”
    Clearly you don’t understand what a homophone is. No matter what form of your or you’re is used in internet shorthand, anyone with average intellect can deduce what the writer was trying to say. To compare that to “pool” or “baseball shows someone needs to further their education.
    “Wrong. I don’t even completely agree with Christian doctrine when it comes to morality. Again, you’re ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions.”
    Ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions. Dare I use the word you are famous for, “projecting?”
    “Yeah, Islam is so much better than atheism. A man should be able to beat his wife if he wants to. I know you’re probably extremely sheltered, but you should look into how much the UK is enjoying Sharia law.”
    Non-radical Islamic believers have a set of morals. Atheists do not. It’s as simple as that. It’s not hard to rationalize that fact. Atheists choose to not believe an obvious truth so they can justify their selfish pursuits without having to be held accountable. You will realize this someday, and hopefully my prayers for you will help you out.
    “No no no, my existence is proof of me existing. It’s not proof of a deity, let alone YOUR specific deity. Sure, there is plenty of “proof” (by the way, “proof” is a mathematical term) if you don’t care about the “proof” having any connection to what it is you’re “proving”.”
    There was so much bs in that group of run-on sentences that I don’t even know where to begin. That’s an example of a not so smart person trying to sound smart but turning out to sound extremely stupid.
    “Try to keep up with the conversation, please. My comment was based on extending your argument to its logical conclusion. You really suck at reading comprehension.”
    You don’t believe that my summary of your logic was accurate but all you have to do is reread what I wrote and it will make sense. Oh wait, you don’t make sense out of reading facts so I guess I can’t help you out there.
    “that a century old story about a localized atmospheric optical illusion is evidence of his personal deity.”
    Tell that to the thousands of witnesses, or Sister Lucia.

  378. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 24, 2010 1:33 PM

    I don’t know why it went through twice.

  379. rarson says: Oct 24, 2010 11:29 PM

    “There you go, using that projecting line again.”
    I only mentioned it because you were obviously projecting again.
    “Clearly you don’t understand what a homophone is.”
    Yes, I do: two DIFFERENT words that sound the same. Key word here is DIFFERENT. They mean two completely different things. That is why you are incorrect. Why is it so hard for you to grasp this?
    “Ignoring the facts and making baseless assertions.”
    Way to repeat me. That seems to be your strategy when you have nothing better to say.
    “Non-radical Islamic believers have a set of morals. Atheists do not.”
    Yes, atheists do not have a single set of dogmas for morality. It doesn’t change the fact that Muslims and Christians are choosing to be Muslims and Christians, so you’re still doing the same thing that atheists are doing.
    “Atheists choose to not believe an obvious truth so they can justify their selfish pursuits without having to be held accountable.”
    Christians hold themselves accountable to an invisible sky being that doesn’t exist. Atheists hold themselves accountable to the people that actually exist around them.
    Again, the choice of not believing in YOUR religion has nothing to do with justifying anything. You tell me God exists. I ask you for evidence. You give me none, so I don’t believe you. It’s as simple as that.
    “There was so much bs in that group of run-on sentences that I don’t even know where to begin.”
    None of those sentences were run-ons. You REALLY suck at this grammar thing.
    “Tell that to the thousands of witnesses, or Sister Lucia.”
    I don’t have to. The subject of the “miracles” at Fatima have been covered by many people ad nauseum. No need for me to repeat what’s already out there.

  380. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 25, 2010 12:51 AM

    “I only mentioned it because you were obviously projecting again.”
    I only mentioned it because you were obviously projecting again.
    “Yes, I do: two DIFFERENT words that sound the same. Key word here is DIFFERENT. They mean two completely different things. That is why you are incorrect. Why is it so hard for you to grasp this?”
    How do you not grasp what “internet shorthand” means? It’s a simpler way of writing a word. I wrote your, you understood what I meant yet still felt the need to correct it even though you are very proficient at utilizing bad grammar.
    “Way to repeat me. That seems to be your strategy when you have nothing better to say.”
    Now let’s talk about your strategy. You try to sound smart while bringing yourself down. You use the word “projecting” when you can’t think of a valid response. You use sarcasm in place of an adult response. You don’t know how to write complete sentences. How’s that for strategy?
    “Yes, atheists do not have a single set of dogmas for morality. It doesn’t change the fact that Muslims and Christians are choosing to be Muslims and Christians, so you’re still doing the same thing that atheists are doing.”
    Let me correct you there. Christians abide by a set of morals. Non-radical Muslims abide by a set of morals. Atheists have no morals.
    “Christians hold themselves accountable to an invisible sky being that doesn’t exist. Atheists hold themselves accountable to the people that actually exist around them.”
    You are surrounded by a country that has a majority religion of Christianity. You do not hold yourself accountable to any of them even though your parents are Christians. How can you claim that you hold yourself accountable to the people around you? It’s also important for you not to forget that God exists around you at all times.
    “Again, the choice of not believing in YOUR religion has nothing to do with justifying anything. You tell me God exists. I ask you for evidence. You give me none, so I don’t believe you. It’s as simple as that.”
    I gave you evidence. You choose to place the thoughts in your tiny brain over the evidence I provided you. Fatima is perhaps the strongest evidence we have in recent history to support Christianity, and I can’t force you to believe it. I can pray for you, and I continue to do so.
    “I don’t have to. The subject of the “miracles” at Fatima have been covered by many people ad nauseum. No need for me to repeat what’s already out there.”
    You are correct, many people have covered these events. I believe approximately 70,000 of them. You clearly need more research on the topic. While you are at it, read the Bible. Oh, by the way, you spelled “nauseam” wrong, but nice try. I understand that a pea brain like you wouldn’t be able to handle a big boy term like that.

  381. rarson says: Oct 25, 2010 11:35 PM

    I love it when you illustrate my point, like how you start off with repeating what I said because you can’t come up with something on your own.
    “It’s a simpler way of writing a word.”
    Yeah, spelling mistakes are simpler ways of writing words. Turns out, they’re still wrong.
    “You try to sound smart”
    Just because YOU have to try to sound smart doesn’t mean that it doesn’t come naturally to me. See, this is why I keep mentioning this: you’re projecting your own negative traits onto me. The only reason I repeatedly mention it is because you repeatedly do it, and I’m hoping that maybe if I say it enough, it’ll finally start to sink in and you’ll stop. Why is it that talking to Christians is typically so similar to talking to a three-year-old? (That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.)
    “Christians abide by a set of morals.”
    So does everyone else. You choose to get yours from the Bible. Muslims choose to get theirs from the Koran. Atheists choose to get theirs from the world around them. One of these groups bases their thinking in reality. The other two are Christians and Muslims.
    “How can you claim that you hold yourself accountable to the people around you?”
    Oh come on, you call yourself a Christian and yet you ask this question? The answer is in the Bible. You might want to start with the stuff that Jesus taught. Doesn’t surprise me that you’re this utterly ignorant of your own religion.
    “I gave you evidence.”
    No, I mean evidence of a god’s existence, preferably of your god’s (as opposed to all those other ones), not random accounts of unrelated things happening or existing.
    “I believe approximately 70,000 of them.”
    You do realize that a large majority of the 30,000-70,000 people that were present for that one particular “miracle” saw nothing, right? And that only a handful of statements even exist from people who claimed to have seen ANYTHING, statements which are extremely contradictory? About the only thing that can be concluded about Fatima is that nothing can be concluded.
    I’ve already done quite a bit of research into Fatima- obviously more than you have- because I’m actually interested in events like that and trying to figure out why they occur. I mean ACTUAL explanations, not just shoving my head into the sand and saying “It’s the Virgin Mary!” like some idiotic Christian.
    “Oh, by the way, you spelled ‘nauseam’ wrong”
    Wow, you got one! Good for you! You’ll be at the head of your middle school English class in no time… just a couple decades too late, that’s all. As it turns out, Firefox’s default dictionary isn’t very good. It thinks you spelled it wrong.

  382. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 26, 2010 1:53 PM

    Apparently my response wasn’t approved, will write it again later.

  383. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 27, 2010 4:22 PM

    “Yeah, spelling mistakes are simpler ways of writing words. Turns out, they’re still wrong.”
    You are an expert on spelling mistakes, I will give you that. Your brilliant spelling of “nauseam” proves this. Now, it’s clear to me you don’t understand what internet shorthand means but it’s a useful tool for those of us who have lives and want to save time. If you are that pathetic that you must police the internet for all grammatical errors the first person you should bust is yourself.
    “Just because YOU have to try to sound smart doesn’t mean that it doesn’t come naturally to me.”
    You really think highly of yourself for someone who has yet to argue a decent point and constantly utters the “projecting” defense while sprinkling in some juvenile sarcasm. I’d be willing to bet that you are very self-conscious and you hide behind the internet to insult the righteous religious people of this world. Did I just make an unfair inference about you without really knowing who you are? Maybe so, now you can see where I’m coming from when you try to insinuate something about me or my beliefs without having met me. Your arrogance even in defeat shows the type of miserable person you are.
    “So does everyone else. You choose to get yours from the Bible. Muslims choose to get theirs from the Koran. Atheists choose to get theirs from the world around them.”
    Wrong. Atheists do not have a set of morals to abide by. You threw your morals out the window when you abandoned your blessed faith. Don’t give a lesson on morality if you claim to be an atheist, it’s hypocritical.
    “Oh come on, you call yourself a Christian and yet you ask this question? The answer is in the Bible. You might want to start with the stuff that Jesus taught. Doesn’t surprise me that you’re this utterly ignorant of your own religion.”
    This is arguably the worst point you have made on here. It didn’t make a bit of sense, and it really seems like you struggled to come up with some sort of complex point about Christianity. A swing and a miss.
    “I’ve already done quite a bit of research into Fatima”
    It seems to me that you haven’t. If you believe only a few of the 70,000 people saw something, you need to do more research. There are thousands of accounts of the events as well as photographs and newspaper articles that all point to the same conclusion. Everyone could see it. If an event happens in the sky, not just one or two people see it. Everyone within view sees it, and in this particular case 70,000 people saw it. If you researched Fatima you would know the story of Sister Lucia but you do not.
    “Wow, you got one! Good for you! You’ll be at the head of your middle school English class in no time… just a couple decades too late, that’s all. As it turns out, Firefox’s default dictionary isn’t very good. It thinks you spelled it wrong.”
    You don’t know how old I am. I don’t know how old you are. This is another example of you trying to play psychic and read through the computer. I don’t have to rely on Firefox’s default dictionary. I could wipe the floor with you in a spelling bee any day of the week.

  384. rarson says: Oct 27, 2010 6:30 PM

    “it’s clear to me you don’t understand what internet shorthand means”
    You’re projecting again.
    “You really think highly of yourself”
    Yes, I do. It’s called “self-esteem”.
    “for someone who has yet to argue a decent point”
    It’s not my fault you have such deep reading comprehension problems.
    “Your arrogance even in defeat shows the type of miserable person you are.”
    As if telling someone they are less than human and are going to suffer eternal damnation simply because they don’t share your beliefs ISN’T arrogant or miserable! Ha! Good one! Guess what? You’re projecting again.
    “You threw your morals out the window when you abandoned your blessed faith.”
    Yeah, you’re right. I murdered three people this morning, simply because I don’t believe in your god.
    “A swing and a miss.”
    Yeah, I knew you wouldn’t get it. You’d have to have actually read the Bible to understand. Thanks for proving my point.
    “It seems to me that you haven’t.”
    That’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
    “If an event happens in the sky, not just one or two people see it.”
    That’s the point that you’re failing to grasp: it wasn’t something that actually DID happen in the sky. Based on the accounts that we DO have, very few people actually saw the same thing. Hence, it’s likely either a case of mass hallucination (which is actually quite common), inaccurate memory (even more common), retina damage from staring at the sun (which is shockingly common, thanks to all the religious morons who stare at the sun), or a combination of the three.
    “If you researched Fatima you would know the story of Sister Lucia but you do not.”
    I know the story, but I ignored it because Lucia is the best evidence AGAINST anything actually happening that day. She was known for wanting attention, and her own parents called her a liar. Not the most credible eyewitness, although eyewitness testimony isn’t very reliable in the first place.
    “This is another example of you trying to play psychic and read through the computer.”
    Johnny boy, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I said that you’ll be at the top of your middle school English class a couple decades too late. I am saying that you are dumb, a statement supported by many of your previous comments and the fact that this statement flew completely over your head. I never claimed to know how old you are (though I did claim that you have the intellect of a small child… another statement which seems to be supported by your posts here).

  385. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 27, 2010 7:44 PM

    “You’re projecting again.”
    You’re projecting again. Oh my this is getting repetitive.
    “Yes, I do. It’s called “self-esteem”.
    In your case it’s more likely to be called “delusions of grandeur.”
    “It’s not my fault you have such deep reading comprehension problems.”
    You sure comprehend a lot for someone who has comprehension problems. You’re projecting again.
    “Yeah, you’re right. I murdered three people this morning, simply because I don’t believe in your god.”
    The fact that you didn’t commit a violent crime today does not make up for your lack of morals. You are an atheist, you have no moral guide. I said you have no morals, I didn’t say you were a psychopath. Oh, need I remind you, it’s not my personal God. It is mine, yours, and all of ours.
    “Yeah, I knew you wouldn’t get it. You’d have to have actually read the Bible to understand. Thanks for proving my point.”
    No it was actually it’s lack of any intellect that I didn’t understand. It was so far off base that I couldn’t grasp what you were getting it. Perhaps because I have and do read the Bible. A swing and a miss.
    “That’s the point that you’re failing to grasp: it wasn’t something that actually DID happen in the sky.”
    No, it’s the point you are failing to grasp. Most newspapers reported it to be the exact same amazing event as well as the thousands of witnesses. Sister Lucia’s parents did not feel this way, and I’d say you made that fact up. If you knew anything about her story you would know about her siblings as well, and the Secrets of Fatima. I’d be more than willing to bet you had never heard of Fatima until I mentioned it, and you have been combing the internet for information on it. So far, you have yet to come up with a factual point about the event, and until you do I can’t take you seriously.
    “Johnny boy, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I said that you’ll be at the top of your middle school English class a couple decades too late. I am saying that you are dumb, a statement supported by many of your previous comments and the fact that this statement flew completely over your head. I never claimed to know how old you are (though I did claim that you have the intellect of a small child… another statement which seems to be supported by your posts here).”
    I would say that you’re inferences and presumptions into what I do or do not know are evident of your attempting to read me through your computer. Only someone with “delusions of grandeur” would claim to know someone they have never met before. You can question my intellect all you want but the ultimate truth is I believe in the truth and you are fighting for something that has been proven wrong time and time again. I will continue to pray for you and I have already won this debate multiple times.

  386. rarson says: Oct 28, 2010 2:27 AM

    “You sure comprehend a lot for someone who has comprehension problems. You’re projecting again.”
    Copying me again, I see.
    “The fact that you didn’t commit a violent crime today does not make up for your lack of morals.”
    Oh, so you DO understand sarcasm. But you still missed the point. There are a lot of bad things that I don’t do. Why don’t I do them if I don’t have morals?
    “Oh, need I remind you, it’s not my personal God. It is mine, yours, and all of ours.”
    No, it’s yours. Ask any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or anyone else that doesn’t subscribe to Catholicism.
    “It was so far off base that I couldn’t grasp what you were getting it.”
    Because you haven’t actually read the Bible. If you had, you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. Again, an atheist knows more about your religion than you do.
    “Sister Lucia’s parents did not feel this way, and I’d say you made that fact up.”
    Again, do some research.
    “I’d be more than willing to bet you had never heard of Fatima until I mentioned it”
    Wrong.
    “I would say that you’re inferences and presumptions”
    Let me guess, “your” bating me, aren’t you? Or are you really that dumb as to make this mistake again? That’s certainly not “internet shorthand”.
    “You can question my intellect all you want”
    I’m not questioning it at all, I’m stating it clearly: you are dumb. That much is supremely evident from your comments here. Any person of average intelligence can see just how stupid you are from your own posts. You ooze stupidity. It’s right up there for everyone to see. I didn’t do it, you did. You advertise your lack of intellect with every post you make. I had nothing to do with it, I’m simply pointing it out, because apparently you’re the only person that hasn’t caught on yet.

  387. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 28, 2010 12:20 PM

    “Oh, so you DO understand sarcasm. But you still missed the point. There are a lot of bad things that I don’t do. Why don’t I do them if I don’t have morals?”
    I described it before. Atheists are on a selfish pursuit of self pleasure while disregarding those around them and attempting to demean the religious. Your pursuit of self pleasure involves avoiding jail. That doesn’t mean you have morals, it means you want to remain free to be the low life that you are.
    “No, it’s yours. Ask any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or anyone else that doesn’t subscribe to Catholicism.”
    No, Jesus Christ is your God, as well as the God to Muslims, Jews, and Hindus. Just because they don’t worship him like you does not take away from that FACT.
    “Because you haven’t actually read the Bible. If you had, you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. Again, an atheist knows more about your religion than you do.”
    Wrong. I have read the Bible. Unlike you I took it for what it was. You believe that you hold all the answers but it’s easy to see how far down the wrong path you have gone.
    “Let me guess, “your” bating me, aren’t you? Or are you really that dumb as to make this mistake again? ”
    Oops, I made a repeat mistake. Kind of like your use of “but” at the beginning of a sentence in your second point. Notice how I wasn’t going to be an annoying little girl and call you out on it again until you forced my hand. Unlike you I look past grammatical errors on the internet because I’m aware that no professor is going to be grading my posts. The problem is you are obsessive compulsive and feel the need to point out all my mistakes. Why don’t you edit your own posts? Why don’t you correct your own mistakes? You take such pleasure in exposing mine, it seems hypocritical of you to ignore your grammatical errors. I guess someone with delusions of grandeur believes that it is not possible for them to also make a typo.
    “I’m not questioning it at all, I’m stating it clearly: you are dumb. That much is supremely evident from your comments here. Any person of average intelligence can see just how stupid you are from your own posts.”
    You can question my intelligence all you want. The fact of the matter is you have been claiming to be intelligent since September on here, and I just don’t see it. Nothing you have said supports that point. You’ve told me to do research on subjects you lack any common knowledge on. You have used sarcasm too many times to be considered mature. You are so delusional about your own greatness that you fail to answer any of my questions with a valid response. The past three weeks have been you repeating the same exact thing over and over again just to get the last word in because you are a miserable person who can not bear to see that there are happy Christians in this world who know the real truth. Say a prayer, read the Bible, go to church; these are all things you can do if you want to better your life and find those morals you wish you had. I’m beginning to think more and more that you got picked on in school and the internet is your mask to get back at the world. I’m sorry little Rarson, I wish that you had a better life but the first step for an atheist to get rid of his/her misery is to embrace God.

  388. rarson says: Oct 28, 2010 7:05 PM

    “Atheists are on a selfish pursuit of self pleasure while disregarding those around them and attempting to demean the religious.”
    That’s completely wrong. I’m not disregarding my waiter when I tip them 20%. I’m not disregarding another person by holding the door for them, or helping them carry something that they’re struggling with. I go out of my way to help others on a daily basis. What your saying simply has no truth in reality.
    And, hilariously enough, your statements are projection that is so typical of fundamentalists like yourself: you make this whole lifetime out to be one long process of sucking up to your deity to be rewarded with an eternity of pleasure. Your pursuit of eternal happiness is completely self-motivated and self-centered, and you spend much of your time demeaning the non-religious. You disregard those around you and instead of actually trying to help people, you “pray for them” which does absolutely nothing. You don’t hold yourself accountable to the people around you, only to your imagined deity. If you wrong somebody, you simply go to confession, say a few prayers, and all is forgiven.
    YOU’RE the one who doesn’t live in reality. YOU’RE the one who doesn’t hold yourself accountable to the people around you. YOU’RE the one who doesn’t answer to the people around you for your own actions. Isn’t that convenient?
    “Your pursuit of self pleasure involves avoiding jail. That doesn’t mean you have morals, it means you want to remain free to be the low life that you are.”
    No. The reason I don’t kill people is not because there is a law for it. If there was no law, I still wouldn’t kill people.
    “Just because they don’t worship him like you does not take away from that FACT.”
    You’re confusing fact with fantasy again.
    “I have read the Bible.”
    It’s quite obvious that you haven’t. Go back and read your own posts.
    “Why don’t you edit your own posts?”
    Surely you’ve noticed the site’s lack of a comment editing feature by now. Then again, you’re incredibly stupid, so probably not.
    “Say a prayer, read the Bible, go to church; these are all things you can do if you want to better your life and find those morals you wish you had.”
    Sit around wishing for things instead of doing, read a fictional story book, waste an hour each week participating in cult rituals; these are all things that you can do to simulate the religious experience.
    “Blah blah blah…”
    You use lots of words to say very little.

  389. JohnnyFromtheShore says: Oct 28, 2010 9:29 PM

    “And, hilariously enough, your statements are projection that is so typical of fundamentalists like yourself: you make this whole lifetime out to be one long process of sucking up to your deity to be rewarded with an eternity of pleasure…”
    That paragraph shows your lack of understanding on religion. You have a very juvenile and simplistic view on the entire process of confession, prayer, and religion as a whole. More money goes to charity from churches than any other organization in the world. That says a lot about caring for others. The church does more for the poor, sick, and those in need than any atheist group you can name. Atheists groups do not do anything to benefit their fellow man, they waste their money on signs that demean the religious and campaigning for their own political wants and needs. The fact that you think the atheists have more morals than the religious shows your complete lack of clarity on the issue. You need to check in to a mental institution my friend. Paranoid delusions of grandeur have really hindered your ability to comprehend actual reality.
    “It’s quite obvious that you haven’t. Go back and read your own posts.”
    I know the truth, so you telling me otherwise makes you look presumptuous and arrogant for no reason.
    “Surely you’ve noticed the site’s lack of a comment editing feature by now. Then again, you’re incredibly stupid, so probably not.”
    Surely you’ve noticed that you can scroll up to read your post and edit it before hitting submit. I do not do this, because like I have stated before that I do not care about internet grammar. This is not being graded. This is a sports website. I just think that for someone like yourself who seems to care so much about internet grammar, you should read over your posts before hitting that permanent “Submit” button. Then again, you’re incredibly stupid, so you probably won’t do this.
    “these are all things that you can do to simulate the religious experience.”
    Let’s see, nothing you mentioned has anything to do with the religious experience. Also, if you believe prayer doesn’t work talk to the countless numbers of people who have witnessed miracles. Just remember, if you ever get in a bad situation, the Lord will be open to your prayers. I’m sure that in the future you will find a circumstance where you need prayer. Be it that you get sick or a family member does, (I am not wishing this on you, I’m merely stating it is a “what if?”), I can almost guarantee that you will then turn to prayer. Hopefully this doesn’t happen to you, and hopefully you go on to live a long healthy, happy, and care free life. Oh wait, your an atheist, you are already miserable. Sorry.

  390. rarson says: Nov 1, 2010 12:12 AM

    “You have a very juvenile and simplistic view on the entire process of confession, prayer, and religion as a whole.”
    Actually, I’m being honest. I’m calling it what it really is.
    “More money goes to charity from churches than any other organization in the world.”
    More money comes from human donors than any other group of people in the world. Seriously, your statement was completely arbitrary.
    “Atheists groups do not do anything to benefit their fellow man”
    Yes, because charities don’t exist outside of churches. Right.
    “You need to check in to a mental institution my friend. Paranoid delusions of grandeur have really hindered your ability to comprehend actual reality.”
    You’re projecting again.
    “I know the truth, so you telling me otherwise makes you look presumptuous and arrogant for no reason.”
    You’re still not getting it. I’M not telling you that you haven’t read your Bible, I’m saying that YOUR OWN POSTS are telling us all, loud and clear, that you haven’t.
    “Then again, you’re incredibly stupid, so you probably won’t do this.”
    Repeating me again, I see.
    “Also, if you believe prayer doesn’t work talk to the countless numbers of people who have witnessed miracles.”
    Aside from the fact that eyewitness testimony is, by far, the LEAST reliable form of evidence, the fact of the matter is that most “miracles” are actually ordinary events, and occasionally even an infrequent natural phenomenon that a person cannot immediately explain. In other words, just because YOU experience something that you can’t explain and are happy with not finding the actual cause of the event and chalking it up to supernatural bull crap doesn’t mean I’m going to be at all persuaded to believe in your personal deity. Even if I were to accept something as a true miraculous event, you’d still have to explain to me how that event is in any way evidence of YOUR personal god’s existence over anyone else’s.
    “I can almost guarantee that you will then turn to prayer.”
    When I get sick, I “turn to” the doctor. I don’t sit around wishing in my head that I would magically get better, because that’s just dumb.

  391. JohnnyAtTheShore says: Nov 6, 2010 11:12 PM

    Apparently I was banned for whatever reason. They haven’t let me post a response to you so this is my fourth try, let’s see if this goes through. I had to create a new user name, but it is me, the real Johnny.
    “Actually, I’m being honest. I’m calling it what it really is.”
    Your honesty does not amount to truth.
    “More money comes from human donors than any other group of people in the world. Seriously, your statement was completely arbitrary.”
    Well, the statement I said was true. As was yours, all church groups are comprised of humans. We are both right.
    “Yes, because charities don’t exist outside of churches. Right.”
    Give me an example of an atheist organization that contributes positively to humanity. Donating money for demeaning billboards does not count as “charitable.”
    “You’re still not getting it. I’M not telling you that you haven’t read your Bible, I’m saying that YOUR OWN POSTS are telling us all, loud and clear, that you haven’t.”
    You’re still not getting it. You believe that everything came from nothing. There is nothing more illogical than that. Your belief is that at one point in time, nothing existed. Then, out of the blue, the universe magically popped out of nowhere. This universe magically had planets which had life. Life evolved into humanity. Now, tell me how that logic makes more sense than the truth, Christianity. There has to be a starting point. Atheism does not compensate for this.
    “Aside from the fact that eyewitness testimony is, by far, the LEAST reliable form of evidence”
    That’s actually not true. Especially when there is more than one eyewitness. In this specific case, there were 74,000 eyewitnesses. It doesn’t take an atheist to realize that a case based on the testimony of 74,000 eyewitnesses would surely hold up in court.
    “When I get sick, I “turn to” the doctor. I don’t sit around wishing in my head that I would magically get better, because that’s just dumb.”
    Tell that to the millions (or more) who have experienced medical miracles throughout all of time.

  392. rarson says: Nov 7, 2010 9:01 PM

    “Give me an example of an atheist organization that contributes positively to humanity.”
    The Atheist Community of Austin. From their website:
    “The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.”
    Sounds like positive contribution to me.
    “You believe that everything came from nothing.”
    Actually, I profess no belief as to the origins of all matter and energy in the universe. You, however, DO profess a belief that everything came from nothing. When you can explain where “God” came from, then maybe you’ll have room to talk.
    “Your belief is that at one point in time, nothing existed.”
    First of all, the fact that YOU are telling ME what I believe is absurd. Secondly, it’s no surprise to anyone that you’re wrong. I don’t believe that. As I said, I profess no belief as to where “everything” came from.
    “Atheism does not compensate for this.”
    Atheism has nothing to do with any of that. Atheism is the lack of belief in one or more gods. It has nothing to do with the origin of the universe, evolution, or anything else.
    “That’s actually not true.”
    Actually it is. Eyewitness testimony is the least credible form of evidence there is. That’s why a single eye witness is not enough to convict another person of a crime.
    “In this specific case, there were 74,000 eyewitnesses.”
    There weren’t 74,000 individual accounts, that was simply an approximation of the number of people in the area (many of them saw nothing). And a rather liberal approximation at that (most sources say anywhere from 30,000-70,000).
    “the testimony of 74,000 eyewitnesses would surely hold up in court.”
    Let’s say there actually was 10,000 testimonies. That might be strong evidence. However, the testimonies that we DO have aren’t even in agreement. What can you conclude when 10,000 people give you 10,000 different accounts of something happening? Nothing. Even if 500 of them agree, there are still 9,500 other testimonies that don’t.

  393. JohnnyAtTheShore says: Nov 7, 2010 10:39 PM

    “The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.”
    How is this positive? Unlike church organizations which contribute to humanity around the world through helping the poor, the sick, and anyone in need of help, this atheist organizations goal is to ensure that atheists don’t get their feelings hurt. Reread that paragraph and tell me where I’m wrong. Instead of using money to help the needy they want to use money to make sure atheism becomes more widespread and accepted. Sounds like an extremely selfish organization to me, although this is not surprising when you look at what organization is behind it.
    “Actually, I profess no belief as to the origins of all matter and energy in the universe. You, however, DO profess a belief that everything came from nothing. When you can explain where “God” came from, then maybe you’ll have room to talk.”
    Actually, atheism is defined to mean “the doctrine or belief that there is no God.” Simple logic infers that if an atheist does not believe in God, he or she believes that everything came from nothing. If there was no God, there has to have been a magical starting point. You seem to have confused being agnostic with atheism. Now, a simple human has no concept of where God came from, but God is all knowing and has always existed. Considering he created everything, nothing is unexplainable with a God. Unfortunately for atheism and “magical science,” you do not have that luxury.
    “First of all, the fact that YOU are telling ME what I believe is absurd.”
    I’m not telling you what you believe. I’m summarizing your beliefs based on the argument you have presented. It doesn’t take much thought to realize that you believe everything came from nothing.
    “Let’s say there actually was 10,000 testimonies. That might be strong evidence. However, the testimonies that we DO have aren’t even in agreement. What can you conclude when 10,000 people give you 10,000 different accounts of something happening? Nothing. Even if 500 of them agree, there are still 9,500 other testimonies that don’t.”
    You seem to be mistaken. 74,000 people saw the same thing at the same time in the same region. There is no differing stories, it was an event that happened and was recorded accurately by the masses. With that fact, your argument that 10,000 testimonies would be strong evidence is true, and it is validated with the case of Fatima.

  394. rarson says: Nov 8, 2010 1:11 AM

    You don’t think that promoting positive culture, defending first amendment rights, and opposing discrimination is positive?
    “Actually, atheism is defined to mean ‘the doctrine or belief that there is no God.’”
    No, it’s not. The first clue is that “atheism” means the opposite of theism (a-theism), and theism has nothing to do with your specific “God” character. It’s a lack of belief in deities. There’s no such thing as a doctrine for non-belief.
    “I’m not telling you what you believe.”
    Your exact words were “Your belief is…”
    “I’m summarizing your beliefs based on the argument you have presented.”
    I never stated anything about what I believe about the origin of the universe, so you’re making faulty assumptions. If you’re referring to the Big Bang theory, then it’s obvious you don’t understand the theory because the theory doesn’t start with “nothing”. But that’s par for the course with Christians who are too ignorant to learn about the science they obsess over.
    “74,000 people saw the same thing at the same time in the same region.”
    That’s not true. Go look it up. There are a few hundred eye witness accounts at best, and dozens of different versions of what people say they saw, many of them directly contradicting other accounts. Obviously you haven’t done much research into it.

  395. johnnyshore says: Jan 11, 2012 12:19 AM

    I just want to thank Tim Tebow for proving my point. Hey Rarson, I see you have converted! Haha, I told you that you would brother, it was expected. Timmy proved God’s existence, and I’m so happy to see that you joined the believers.

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