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Mangini says T.J. Ward isn't dirty, but acknowledges his hit on Shipley wasn't clean

On Monday, Browns safety T.J. Ward defended his big hit on Bengals receiver Jordan Shipley by saying that he led with his shoulder and that “I would do it again.”

In a scientific poll with a margin of error of 0.02 percent, 55.01 percent of you agreed that it wasn’t a cheap shot.

Count Browns coach Eric Mangini among those who think that Ward did nothing wrong.

“T.J. is not a dirty guy,” Mangini said Monday, per Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He’s a young guy.  He’s an
aggressive guy, and he’s an inexperienced guy, but he’s not a dirty guy. 
He’s a good person.  He’s a good kid.  I’m not going to try to take
anything off of the way that he plays because I think it’s a real
strength, but there are things that he’ll learn to do even better within
the framework of what we all have to play with.”

That last observation from Mangini indicates that Ward was not “within the framework” of the rules when he tried to remove Shipley’s head from the framework of his torso. 

“I don’t want to see our guys hitting guys in the head when they’re
defenseless,” Mangini said. “We can be just as tough and do it in the
framework of how it’s supposed to be.  You like physical play, but you
can’t put the team in that situation where you give them a new set of
downs.”

Far more important than the new set of downs is the elimination of situation in which football players have to acquire a new set of memories.  Even though Ward used his shoulder, he hit Shipley in the head.  The NFL has beefed up in 2010 its efforts to protect players from head injuries, and hitting a guy who just caught a pass in the head is going to draw a flag and a fine more often than not in large part because, more often than not, it’s also going to cause a concussion. 

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30 Responses to “Mangini says T.J. Ward isn't dirty, but acknowledges his hit on Shipley wasn't clean”
  1. pacstud says: Oct 5, 2010 9:09 AM

    So we have the pink jersey and flags for the QB…now we need them for the WRs?
    Hey Florio, since you’re always looking for someway to act like you know anything about football, why don’t you start a crusade making it illegal for big, mean offensive linemen to block poor wittle defensive backs?
    That’s more dangerous than half the stuff they’ve banned in the last five years.

  2. Krow says: Oct 5, 2010 9:12 AM

    Just as a case in point, any poll concerning an emotional issue will almost certainly be dominated by respondents with a vested interest. It’s the old, ‘can 40 million Frenchmen be wrong?’ scenario. There’s no validity in your poll. Sorry.

  3. Rock48nj says: Oct 5, 2010 9:14 AM

    Is Mangini actually a decent coach just a terrible people person? I don’t love his “by the numbers” approach to the game which is completely devoid of feel or flow, but given the talent level on Cleveland (or lack thereof) they seem to at least compete in every game which is more then can be said for most of the slop at the bottom of the league. He was also submarined by the supreme diva Favre who put his personal record above his team… otherwise he may likely still be the Jets coach (though I shudder at the thought).

  4. mswhit09@gmail.com says: Oct 5, 2010 9:17 AM

    It was a big hit, if you watch the play there is no way T.J. could of known that Jordan dropped the ball the result was what looks like a dirty play but 10 years ago would have just been a big hit. Having said that is is so awesome that the Browns finally have a big hitter in the secondary something they have missed for to long.

  5. marktg30 says: Oct 5, 2010 9:21 AM

    Don’t throw over the middle if you don’t want to jack up your WR. It would be one thing if the guy was going to the sideline or something… The play was in the middle of the endzone and Shipley got his welcome to the NFL…
    Suh tried to rip a guy’s head off and Ward tried to make a play… Big difference.

  6. browns247 says: Oct 5, 2010 9:22 AM

    Why is this news??? The refs decided it wasn’t a clean hit when it happened. He got a penalty, late hits happen, get over it.
    This hit wasn’t even that late. If Shipley had hung on to the ball, everybody would be talking about how palmer hung him out to dry. Instead, they get on Ward for making a hit .3 seconds too late. If Polamalu makes that hit, everybody would just say you can’t go across the middle against the steelers or that happens.
    Keep hating on the Browns and try to cheapen their win. Pretty sure Jordan Shipley wasn’t gonna tackle Peyton Hillis and stop the Browns from running out the clock.

  7. sammm says: Oct 5, 2010 9:28 AM

    The NFL isn’t used to seeing a Browns player able to lay someone out. Let’s move on already.

  8. Browns_fan_in_therapy says: Oct 5, 2010 9:33 AM

    I knew Shipley was going to be just fine when he went over to Colt McCoy and asked him what play they were going to run next…

  9. jwill007 says: Oct 5, 2010 9:35 AM

    I dont care if we have a losing season the rest of the way we’re going to kick Cleveland’s ass when they come to Cincy…Count on it!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. pwndabear says: Oct 5, 2010 9:36 AM

    it is absolutely ridiculous that this is such an issue. hits happen and then people get in such an uproar. no helmet to helmet contact here, and ward was running in hard during the play with no chance to stop himself .00041 seconda after the play was stopped. Was he to magically stop himself in mid-air?
    Being at the game, this happened right in front of me. This is the game of football. Hits are going to happen and guys are going to go down regardless of how heavy the NoFunLeague gets on head injuries, even if they force players to start wearing pillows around their heads.
    Wards hit was clean and the entirety of this country that wont stop talking about this (including you, florio) needs to stfu, man-up, and enjoy the game for what it is: physical.

  11. Mysterious Stranger says: Oct 5, 2010 9:38 AM

    Maybe the NFL will install flubber as the new grid-iron turf. That way Cutler and others may avoid future concussions.

  12. The Ghost of Terry Bradshaw says: Oct 5, 2010 9:41 AM

    The NFL might as well go all the way and close the remaining loopholes around deliberate blows to the head or facemask. The NFL will survive without eye gouging, earhole slapping, shoulder-led blows to the head, jaw-punching, or any of these other quasi-legal methods of injuring players. The same rationale for protecting defenseless QBs and kickers also applies to defenseless receivers.

  13. Kaz says: Oct 5, 2010 9:47 AM

    T.J needs to pick on someone his own size. He was upset because he was smoked by T.O and Chad the whole game. So what does he do? Pick on 160 pound Shipley…. Clap, Clap, Clap…

  14. RedsDouche says: Oct 5, 2010 9:59 AM

    I’m still loving the fact of the Clowns fans chest pounding over this. lol You guys still suck. You beat us, a mediocre (at best) team and now you’d think you’re on your way to the Super Bowl. Seriously. Ward made a big, illegal hit to the head and now you guys are bad asses huh? lol Just wait till we see you again. As someone else said, we’ll probably have a below average season this year but we’ll be sure to give you some good payback for that shot to Shipley’s head. Had he gone for Shipley’s body it’s a clean, hard hit. He went straight for his head. That was a BS move and he’ll get his payback.

  15. browns247 says: Oct 5, 2010 10:06 AM

    @Kaz
    Are you kidding??? Ward was NOT getting smoked the whole game. Ward was the one making the tackles when Eric Wright was getting smoked the whole game. And Ocho didn’t do anything the whole game, it was all T.O. cuz Wright was covering him. Not Ward’s fault.

  16. Ghost Lion says: Oct 5, 2010 10:21 AM

    Yeesh! What about the helmet to helmet the Bungals got called on against Ben Watson? Was that one ok?! Maybe TJ’s was “payback” for that one. Or maybe he was just trying to make abig play in the endzone.

  17. NarDawg says: Oct 5, 2010 10:34 AM

    # RedsDouche says: October 5, 2010 9:59 AM
    I’m still loving the fact of the Clowns fans chest pounding over this. lol You guys still suck. You beat us, a mediocre (at best) team and now you’d think you’re on your way to the Super Bowl. Seriously. Ward made a big, illegal hit to the head and now you guys are bad asses huh? lol Just wait till we see you again. As someone else said, we’ll probably have a below average season this year but we’ll be sure to give you some good payback for that shot to Shipley’s head. Had he gone for Shipley’s body it’s a clean, hard hit. He went straight for his head. That was a BS move and he’ll get his payback.
    Wow, gotta love it. redsDOUCHE says a hit on a bang-bang play is dirty and shouldnt be condoned, but he doesnt mind putting a bounty on someone’s head for revenge?
    Stay classy DOUCHE, stay classy.

  18. gypjet says: Oct 5, 2010 10:42 AM

    What is up with you idiots on here who hate on Florio. This site does not exist without him. If you don’t like it, change the channel. You are acting like a bunch of liberal union goons who think you are entitled to free football websites. When you start paying for this site, then you can complain.

  19. str8_cash says: Oct 5, 2010 10:43 AM

    There’s something to be said for this on both accounts. It was borderline at best, but if it’s something that the Browns have to do to get “within the framework” of winning a couple of games this year, I can’t fault Ward at all. And I’m guessing Shipley will think twice about rolling across the middle in their next meeting, that’s for damn sure. There is a certain brutality that is built into the game and some players are going to cross the line at times, whether they are a clean, dirty, young or old player. It’s sad to see Shipley go down, but play like this may be exactly what it takes to make the Cleveland Browns a viable franchise for the first time in a long time. In addition to, of course, drafting a QB with their top 4 draft pick next year…

  20. js136202 says: Oct 5, 2010 10:44 AM

    RedsDouche says:
    October 5, 2010 9:59 AM
    I’m still loving the fact of the Clowns fans chest pounding over this. lol You guys still suck.
    A funny statement considering I came in and read this article and found 0 responses that could even be loosely interpreted as “chest pounding.”
    Most fans said they’re happy to get the win, they like that we have a safety who takes shots on defenders going over the middle, and we’re pleased to see the team competing. I haven’t heard a lot of people taking this for anything more than it was, a solid win against a second-tier opponent at home. We should beat crap teams like Cinci at home.

  21. JoeBrowns027 says: Oct 5, 2010 10:51 AM

    Not understanding the double standard here.
    Ward is getting ‘labeled’ dirty but a guy like Whines Hard can hit defenseless defenders and he is a heck of a player who knows how to play the game. same goes for hits by Ed Reed or Troy P. or any other of the ‘favorites’ of the NFL media.

  22. lionsfan54 says: Oct 5, 2010 11:03 AM

    You can blame the stupid, “continue the process” crap for this. Now that a WR has to posses the ball for an hour after he lands in the end zone, every DB is going to be tee’ing off on them in attempt to stop the TD from being counted.

  23. OLDCRACKER says: Oct 5, 2010 11:21 AM

    The Browns are like that dog you kick everyday after work. For years that dog has just taken it. Now that old dog has been infused with a little Gator blood…he ain’t gonna just lay there and take it any longer.
    No, one hit doesn’t make it to the Superbowl. No one in Cleveland is claiming that. But, it represents a change in attitude, and it sure is nice to be the one doing the hitting for a change.
    Now you know why the Pussy cats play for the Queen city.

  24. Maddog says: Oct 5, 2010 11:21 AM

    JoeBrowns027 says:
    October 5, 2010 10:51 AM
    Not understanding the double standard here.
    Ward is getting ‘labeled’ dirty but a guy like Whines Hard can hit defenseless defenders and he is a heck of a player who knows how to play the game. same goes for hits by Ed Reed or Troy P. or any other of the ‘favorites’ of the NFL media.
    ———————————————-
    I don’t consider T.J. to be a dirty player, but you’ve got to throw that flag. Your “Whines Hard” reference, very clever by the way, is way off base. Hines will take a guys head off if he’s not paying attention, but he’s not hitting guys in the head. He’s doing the same thing to defensive players that they do to the offense. Shipley should learn to keep his head on a swivel, but that being said, you can’t hit the guy in the head and not expect a flag. And worse you can’t cry about “same goes for hits by Ed Reed or Troy P”. Kind of kills your defense of your own player.

  25. ErikInHell says: Oct 5, 2010 11:55 AM

    Whines Hard hits more people in the chin on those come-back blocks than anyone I’ve ever seen. The last I checked, the chin is still part of the head. Is he a dirty player? No. He does very well at taking full advantage of those opportunities. I do think that those hits make enough highlight reels that the NFL tends to look the other way on a lot of them.

  26. JoeBrowns027 says: Oct 5, 2010 12:49 PM

    @ Maddog:
    I wasn’t defending Ward. I was asking why the double standard. I also never said the flag shouldn’t have been thrown. I’m asking why it’s thrown for some and not others.
    same goes for hits on “favorite” QBs.

  27. str8_cash says: Oct 5, 2010 12:50 PM

    ErikInHell says:
    October 5, 2010 11:55 AM
    Whines Hard hits more people in the chin on those come-back blocks than anyone I’ve ever seen. The last I checked, the chin is still part of the head. Is he a dirty player? No. He does very well at taking full advantage of those opportunities. I do think that those hits make enough highlight reels that the NFL tends to look the other way on a lot of them.
    —————————–
    FYI: SI did a poll of 296 NFL players and Hines Ward was the winner. He IS, most certainly, a dirty player. Just call a spade a spade. TJ Ward is only a rookie, but a few more hits like this and maybe he’ll begin to climb this list as well.
    This is a role that is embraced by some. And loved by the fans (as long as it’s not your team that’s getting blasted). There’s a place for it in this game. As long as you can handle the chunk of change they’re going to take out of your next gamecheck, keep up the good work, son.
    I just wonder if he was smiling from ear to ear after this hit as Hines Ward would have been?

  28. TD40 says: Oct 5, 2010 2:23 PM

    The funny part about all this is that people expect a player to make all these friggin’ calculations about how to hit, where to hit, which body part is where, and so on- all in the space of about 0.002 seconds.
    It ain’t gonna happen. Put thicker pads inside of helmets and uniforms. There’s an answer for you.

  29. JoeBrowns027 says: Oct 5, 2010 3:11 PM

    @RedsDouche
    “We have one of the best receivers corp in the league. We have a Top 10, if not Top 5, defense. We have a very good running back corp. … You guys have absolutely NO REASONS at all to think you have a remote chance at any post-season games. you have ONE PLAYER who made ONE BIG HIT in ONE GAME and now you guys are badasses. really?”
    23-20.
    Time to log off your PC, Mom’s calling you for dinner.

  30. dwatkins says: Oct 5, 2010 10:43 PM

    Hey Kaz, Shiply is 6’0″, 190# and Ward is 5’10”, 200. sounds like he was picking on someone his size! You might want to think before you open up your hole!

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