Comments on: Michael Crabtree vows to appeal $2,500 fine

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:09:28 +0000

Andrew9erfan, I think you might be looking at the situation through red and gold colored glasses there. I’m a Vikes fan and have no stake in the game.
This is an objective situation. When a player, with no one around them, especially at the end of a game when the int seals it, goes to ground of his own accord, it is obvious he’s declaring himself down. He even got up as if the play was over. I give Crabtree credit for not trying to give up, but I do think this is a correct interpretation of the rules.
This isn’t an instance where some technicality can be applied, which is what you are attempting to do. The ball is down. Yes, the refs have a responsibility to blow the play dead. But players also have a responsibility to not take cheap shots. Now, let me be clear, I do not think Crabtree’s intent was to be cheap. He was frustrated and wanted to win the game. But it was also wrong.

By: Andrew9erfan

Andrew9erfan — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:27:44 +0000

You actually disproved your point with your post. It says that the ref’s may declare a player down in that situation, not that other players should not hit them regardless. The rules specifically state that you cannot hit a QB who is sliding or a player who has gone out of bounds. In this case it specifically leaves it up the the officials. It also says “makes no effort to advance the ball.” After falling down, he got up immediately and started forward. Sorry, but you are wrong.

By: Andrew9erfan

Andrew9erfan — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:56:44 +0000

Not at all. Those are very objective situations. This is a subjective one. When a QB slides feet first, he is not allowed to be hit. If he doesn’t slide feet first, he is fair game. In those cases you mentioned, it really has nothing to do with weather the play is dead or not. There was no clear definable situation. That is why it is up to the ref’s to call the play dead. Every coach tells their players to play till the whistle. There have been plenty of instances when a player will stop because he thinks it should be dead(and sometimes correctly) and gets burned as a result. Crabtree did what he was supposed to do. I suppose we don’t even need the ref’s to blow plays dead because the players should be able to determine it on their own.

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:36:41 +0000

@Andrew9erfan
By your reasoning, then players that get hit out of bounds shouldn’t get flagged if the ref didn’t blow the whistle. Likewise if a QB slides feet first, but the whistle doesn’t blow and the QB gets speared by a DB, should that penalty not count either?
Sorry to say, this time the refs got it right, and the NFL is warranted in fining Crabtree. I probably wouldn’t have, but it is one of the smaller fines. There’s much more egregious rulings and penalties called or not called to complain about than this one.

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:56:46 +0000

@ myopinionisrighterthanyours
I already said in a previous post that referees often appear to be shocked by players giving themselves up like this, and do not blow the whistle when they should. But that doesn’t give players an excuse to engage in prohibited behavior. Because you know who else should know the rules besides the refs?
**The Players**

By: Andrew9erfan

Andrew9erfan — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:43:32 +0000

Agamemnon, according to the rules you posted, crabtree did nothing wrong. Look at the first sentence. “An official shall declare dead ball and the down ended: ” That didn’t happen. The rule doesn’t say that the players should have to make that decision on weather or not the player is down. If they want to fine someone, fine the official.

By: myopinionisrighterthanyours

myopinionisrighterthanyours — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:05:50 +0000

@Agememnon:
The officials in the game got it WRONG, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE! You are correct in qouting the dead ball rule. The Eagles DB was clearly intending to give himself up. Here’s the problem. Although he should be down and the play over, NONE OF THE 11 ZEBRAS WITH NOISEMAKERS USED THEM. They were inexplicably waiting for a 49er to touch him down. And with the absense of a whistle, Crabtree was COMPLETELY justified in what he did, especially since it wasn’t dirty.

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:55:13 +0000

@ cheddar is back
First off, you should know this rule already since you are a football fan, but I did scare up a PDF of the 2007 rulebook, which should be the same today as far as this year’s rules go too. Here’s a link to the rulebook I found (after a lot of Google Searching.)
http://www.patscap.com/rulebook.pdf
Citing the relevant rule: Rule 7, Section 4 Dead Ball
**************************
Article 1 An official shall declare dead ball and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is out of bounds or declares himself down by falling to the ground
and makes no effort to advance.
(b) any time a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping his
knee) to the ground behind the line of scrimmage during the last two minutes of a
half. The game clock will not stop during this action.
(c) whenever a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball
is dead at the spot of the ball at the instant the runner so touches the ground.
****************
Part (a) is obvious, but the QB downing the ball at the end of a half should have precluded even requesting this citation. A player can always declare himself down by going to the ground and not attempting to advance the ball. The officials got it right. The NFL is not out of line for fining Crabtree.

By: youboettcha

youboettcha — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:27:37 +0000

I can’t believe they fined him when there was no whistle. Also, $2,500 has got to be the smallest fine the NFL doles out. I haven’t heard of anything smaller.

By: TheSleepness

TheSleepness — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:59:07 +0000

AND he got a penalty on the play…terrrible, terrible call and they have the nerve to fine him?? the fool posing as a ref who threw that flag should be fined..gimmie a break…the calls have been really, really bad this year…too many old fogeys running around..time to upgrade NFL>

By: cheddar is back

cheddar is back — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:41:58 +0000

Will someone please cite in the rulebook the rules regarding downing the ball? Seems to me you can’t “give yourself up” during a live play like some of you are saying outside of a QB sliding feet first. It’s one of those phantom “rules” that fans conveniently bring up when it benefits them. A WR catches the ball, goes down without a defender touching him, and the ref is supposed to make a judgement call if the WR “gave himself up”? Play is still alive in my book. Prove me wrong.

By: Mixmasterpro12

Mixmasterpro12 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:11:17 +0000

he obviously went to the ground and gave himself up, He was not touched but just like a quarterback doesnt have to be touched when he kneels on the ball to run out the clock. once his knee is on the ground the play should have been blown dead. That being said you are taught to play to the whistle and crabtree did his job, I think the ref who failed to blow the play dead should pay crabtree’s fine for him. I am an eagles fan and wish some of our players showed the heart to keep playing to the whistle.

By: JETAMAN

JETAMAN — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:48:21 +0000

THE NFL IS COMPLETELY DESTROYING THE GAME WITH THESE FINES, IT’S NOT EVEN FREAKING FOOTBALL ANY MORE!!!!!

By: Andrew9erfan

Andrew9erfan — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:55:07 +0000

If he wanted to down himself, he should have either gone to a knee or done a proper slide. You know, feet first. He did neither. He then got up. Since there still hadn’t been a whistle, play should go on and Crabtree made a hit on the ball and knocked it loose. Even if he had been downed by contact, which he wasn’t, it’s the ref’s responsibility to blow the whistle. It was ridiculous that it was a penalty and even more so that he was fined. NFL now stands for National Flag-football League.

By: comment_submission_error

comment_submission_error — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:46:22 +0000

In related news, Silva says Hayward-Bey still sucks, and his fine stats don’t compare to Crabtree’s.

By: Raider3:16

Raider3:16 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:36:22 +0000

you have got to be one of the worst reporters on this site(that’s saying something). A good reporter tries to find out the whole story before he writes it. You did not.
Stop allowing your readers to finish writing the story because you were too inept to.

By: Tinbender

Tinbender — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:31:40 +0000

@greenmeattruck, the fines go to charity. Some players even match the fine for charity.

By: CYGNUS X-1

CYGNUS X-1 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:19:44 +0000

hey slim charles just used the word retard, where are the p.c. police?dosn’t retard fall under the offensive catagory nowadays?oh wait I just used it nevermind!

By: ufwa

ufwa — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:44:13 +0000

the play is a bit of a gray area.
lindley went down, but the way he went down seemed like he was trying fake out a niner player and slipped on the field.
if a rb trying to cut back slipped on the field, he wouldn’t be consider defenseless and going down. You see plenty of dlinemen and linebacks pounce on the guy.
Hard to tell if there was a whistle blown or not due to the voice overs.

By: hockref

hockref — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:40:13 +0000

@zaggs
Nice to see your post made it through and the post police are still allowing a little fun, though I bet now that I have called attention to it they take it down!

By: capt. spaulding

capt. spaulding — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:40:01 +0000

Goodell has to be the worst commissioner ever in all of professional sports. I’m sick of what he has turned this league into.

By: Slim Charles

Slim Charles — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:13:07 +0000

Did any of you retards actually watch the video? Lindley went down and got up – after that he’s fair game, end of story.

By: da_skinolas

da_skinolas — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:54:48 +0000

how come every post about crabtree lately has him “vowing” to do something?

By: Rusty Trombone

Rusty Trombone — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:50:39 +0000

turrible, just turrible

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:45:43 +0000

I just watched the play and I think the Defender obviously declared himself down and Crabtree speared him to knock the ball loose. I don’t know that it’s fine worthy, but I do think there is an argument for the fine to stand. Players and officials both need to understand the relatively defenseless position players can sometimes be in when declaring themselves down.

By: greenmeattruck

greenmeattruck — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:44:49 +0000

if the whistle hadn’t been blown yet(I haven’t seen the play), then the nfl should learn to back off on the fines a little bit. Crabtree was making a smart play. who gets all the money from these fines, anyhow? it must add up to quite a bit every season, and if the people who dole out the fines are pocketing the money, there should be a serious investigation into fraud, or at least take the power away from them due to a conflict of interest.

By: Tinbender

Tinbender — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:41:18 +0000

It will be the only thing he wins this year! Bwhahahahaha

By: Agamemnon

Agamemnon — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:38:49 +0000

Did Lindley fall to the ground declaring himself down? Or did he then get up and try to advance the ball (a stupid decision if this is how it happened). If Lindley did the smart thing by trying to conserve the win by giving himself up and the play was in essence blown dead, the fine should stand. Players can take a knee and kill the play before being touched by an apposing player. It doesn’t happen often and it seems that players and officials alike don’t know what to do when it does happen.
Now, I haven’t seen the play, so I can’t say with authority that Lindley meant to end the play. But if he did, then indeed Crabtree should be fined for a late hit.

By: Poo Flinging Monkey

Poo Flinging Monkey — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:34:36 +0000

If only Crabtree cared as much about catching passes… or scoring touchdowns… or practicing… or winning…

By: Razorbyrd

Razorbyrd — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:33:14 +0000

Lindley CLEARLY gave himself up in order to end the play, just a QB does when he slides feet first. In my opinion, Crabtree will lose the appeal.