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Rich McKay: Illegal hits go beyond helmet-to-helmet

Rich McKay is both the president of the Falcons and the co-chair of the NFL’s competition committee, and that means he’s walking a fine line in discussing the $50,000 fine handed down to Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson for a violent collision with Eagles receiver DeSean Jackson.

But McKay attempted to walk that line Wednesday night on NFL Network’s “Competition Committee” segment when discussing the hit that got Robinson fined. And while McKay didn’t come right out and say that that Robinson deserved a penalty and stiff fine, he did say that a defensive player who launches himself at a defenseless receiver can be flagged and fined even if there’s no helmet-to-helmet contact.

“A lot of people call it helmet-to-helmet but that’s really not the way you can call it anymore because in essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet,” McKay said. “That was expanded two years ago because there were so many hits going on where there was a shoulder hit that was going to the receiver and causing injury.”

So even if Robinson only used his shoulder to hit Jackson, it was still a penalty. That will come as a surprise to a lot of NFL fans who thought a hit with the shoulder pads is a textbook example of what a defensive player should do. But McKay said the NFL is just trying to make players safe — not change the way players play.

“People get concerned that you’re changing the game,” McKay said. “We’re not trying to change the game in any way, shape or form.”

McKay said that the league’s motivation is, “We’re trying to get away from having situations in which players are subjected to unreasonable risk of injury.”

NFL Network’s Rich Eisen questioned why instant replay couldn’t be used to check whether a hit is legal or illegal, pointing out that Jets safety Jim Leonhard was flagged for unnecessary roughness even though the replay appeared to show that Leonhard did nothing against the rules.

“Replay is not a panacea — we’re not a league that’s going to try to get every play and call right,” McKay said. “We’re going to try to use replay as a complementary system to correct the obvious error on the big, big play. . . . I don’t see us as a league that wants to get into the business of having penalties be reviewed.”

But while referees won’t use replay to review illegal hits during the game, we’ll all continue to scrutinize replays to review illegal hits after the game. And some of that scrutiny will lead to fines and suspensions — even for players who don’t lead with their helmets.

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104 Responses to “Rich McKay: Illegal hits go beyond helmet-to-helmet”
  1. Katmanduu says: Oct 20, 2010 8:04 PM

    Nice going Goddell. You and your Band of Boobs just cost yourselves an NFL fan. I just cancelled my NFL package. I’ll just watch my team on the NFL Network replay. Outside of that, I have just lost interest in your product.
    It sucks, and quite frankly, you suck.
    Good riddance.

  2. Katmanduu says: Oct 20, 2010 8:04 PM

    Nice going Goddell. You and your Band of Boobs just cost yourselves an NFL fan. I just cancelled my NFL package. I’ll just watch my team on the NFL Network replay. Outside of that, I have just lost interest in your product.
    It sucks, and quite frankly, you suck.
    Good riddance.

  3. Opie says: Oct 20, 2010 8:04 PM

    “that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet.”
    Does it really say that? So, according to this rule, you have to wait until a player catches the ball before you make contact w/shoulder, forearm, or helmet?
    There’s going to be a whole lot of swinging slaps, hip tosses, and leg drops…..come to think of it, Ric Flair & the WWE have similar antics and, since the networks are calling the shots on time left during the games, maybe the similarites between the two entertainment products doesn’t end here?!?

  4. Opie says: Oct 20, 2010 8:04 PM

    “that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet.”
    Does it really say that? So, according to this rule, you have to wait until a player catches the ball before you make contact w/shoulder, forearm, or helmet?
    There’s going to be a whole lot of swinging slaps, hip tosses, and leg drops…..come to think of it, Ric Flair & the WWE have similar antics and, since the networks are calling the shots on time left during the games, maybe the similarites between the two entertainment products doesn’t end here?!?

  5. TMC says: Oct 20, 2010 8:07 PM

    In essence, what they are stating is, players have to aim lower. How much lower? How long before the number of blown out knees and broken legs have the league expanding the QB rule to protect “defenseless players”?
    He is down, I have his flag.

  6. TMC says: Oct 20, 2010 8:07 PM

    In essence, what they are stating is, players have to aim lower. How much lower? How long before the number of blown out knees and broken legs have the league expanding the QB rule to protect “defenseless players”?
    He is down, I have his flag.

  7. Dryheave says: Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM

    *YAWN*……this is really getting old. So old, I’d almost rather read blogs about Brett Favre.

  8. Dryheave says: Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM

    *YAWN*……this is really getting old. So old, I’d almost rather read blogs about Brett Favre.

  9. buddycianci says: Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM

    “In essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet” says Rich McKay.
    Am I watching the same video as everyone else? DeSean Jackson had the ball in his hands and tucked it into his body right when the collision occured. It could have been ruled a catch, if the Falcons wanted to challenge it.

  10. buddycianci says: Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM

    “In essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet” says Rich McKay.
    Am I watching the same video as everyone else? DeSean Jackson had the ball in his hands and tucked it into his body right when the collision occured. It could have been ruled a catch, if the Falcons wanted to challenge it.

  11. Beast Of Eden says: Oct 20, 2010 8:11 PM

    Im not a fan of all the “concussion” safety. Buy the ticket, take the ride. These guys have health insurance and get paid more than 5x than the average working American. It seems like all the global warming hoopla that kicked up major dust 5 years ago then died out. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of “safety” because its a hot topic. You can make a name for yourself by denouncing “devastating hits”.
    But was Daunta Robinson supposed to let DeSean Jackson catch the ball in stride? As much as i loath DeSean, he is an dangerous football player

  12. Beast Of Eden says: Oct 20, 2010 8:11 PM

    Im not a fan of all the “concussion” safety. Buy the ticket, take the ride. These guys have health insurance and get paid more than 5x than the average working American. It seems like all the global warming hoopla that kicked up major dust 5 years ago then died out. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of “safety” because its a hot topic. You can make a name for yourself by denouncing “devastating hits”.
    But was Daunta Robinson supposed to let DeSean Jackson catch the ball in stride? As much as i loath DeSean, he is an dangerous football player

  13. oyoy84 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:11 PM

    Seriously, just get it over with and play flag football.

  14. oyoy84 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:11 PM

    Seriously, just get it over with and play flag football.

  15. theodore says: Oct 20, 2010 8:12 PM

    We all can sleep well tonight knowing Tom Brady’s hair is safe under his helmet.

  16. theodore says: Oct 20, 2010 8:12 PM

    We all can sleep well tonight knowing Tom Brady’s hair is safe under his helmet.

  17. Fantavet says: Oct 20, 2010 8:12 PM

    Have you ever see a player take a hard clean hit and bounce off because the defender never wrapped up? The player then gains more yards. If these guys could come in hard with their shoulder and wrap up I think these hits can take care of themselves. I don’t see the need to launch with arms tucked in like a missle.

  18. Fantavet says: Oct 20, 2010 8:12 PM

    Have you ever see a player take a hard clean hit and bounce off because the defender never wrapped up? The player then gains more yards. If these guys could come in hard with their shoulder and wrap up I think these hits can take care of themselves. I don’t see the need to launch with arms tucked in like a missle.

  19. Raiderfankirk says: Oct 20, 2010 8:17 PM

    and more bs. it is football

  20. Raiderfankirk says: Oct 20, 2010 8:17 PM

    and more bs. it is football

  21. jayy says: Oct 20, 2010 8:18 PM

    “A lot of people call it helmet-to-helmet but that’s really not the way you can call it anymore because in essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet
    ______________________
    ok so its fourth and goal in the superbowl with 10 seconds left and eli throws a pass to lets say nicks in the endzone(im a giants fan, so im painting an unbiased picture here) and hes comin across the middle and ray lewis smacks him before the catches the ball jars it loose ravens win. yet there s 15 bec nicks didnt have complete control of ball? IF HE CATCHS IT HE WINS THE GAME!… n its not just that it can be for any play in the game the object is to not let wrs catch the ball so u let them catch it and gain advantage?

  22. jayy says: Oct 20, 2010 8:18 PM

    “A lot of people call it helmet-to-helmet but that’s really not the way you can call it anymore because in essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet
    ______________________
    ok so its fourth and goal in the superbowl with 10 seconds left and eli throws a pass to lets say nicks in the endzone(im a giants fan, so im painting an unbiased picture here) and hes comin across the middle and ray lewis smacks him before the catches the ball jars it loose ravens win. yet there s 15 bec nicks didnt have complete control of ball? IF HE CATCHS IT HE WINS THE GAME!… n its not just that it can be for any play in the game the object is to not let wrs catch the ball so u let them catch it and gain advantage?

  23. jayy says: Oct 20, 2010 8:19 PM

    “People get concerned that you’re changing the game,” McKay said. “We’re not trying to change the game in any way, shape or form.”
    ____
    so what do u call allowin recievers time 2 catch the ball before makin a hit with ur shoulder pads..ill call that changin the game! SFL–sissy football leage.. im goin to get into canadian football

  24. jayy says: Oct 20, 2010 8:19 PM

    “People get concerned that you’re changing the game,” McKay said. “We’re not trying to change the game in any way, shape or form.”
    ____
    so what do u call allowin recievers time 2 catch the ball before makin a hit with ur shoulder pads..ill call that changin the game! SFL–sissy football leage.. im goin to get into canadian football

  25. FinFan6886 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:28 PM

    “I don’t see us as a league that wants to get into the business of having penalties be reviewed.”
    ———————————————
    They already do that…12 men on the field can be reviewed and a penalty issued after the review. The NFL is adamant about cracking down on what it views as dangerous play. If you listen to the talking heads they have been trotting out since Sunday, you will find that they really do not have a clear policy in place. There is plenty of interpretation available and these hits are all being viewed differently. The NFL is about money and uses the guise of safety to generate rules (or interpretations) to generate more points. Sadly, defense means nothing to the casual or new fan…it is all about the points and fantasy football. The fantasy stuff is fine until the league uses it as an incentive to devalue the game as a whole…and that is exactly what is happening. Somebody will be ejected this week and a couple are likely to get suspended in a typical forced knee-jerk reaction. I believe that if a ref is going to toss a player from a game, he damn-well better officially review the replay beforehand to ensure he gets it right. If there is any question, side with the player.

  26. FinFan6886 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:28 PM

    “I don’t see us as a league that wants to get into the business of having penalties be reviewed.”
    ———————————————
    They already do that…12 men on the field can be reviewed and a penalty issued after the review. The NFL is adamant about cracking down on what it views as dangerous play. If you listen to the talking heads they have been trotting out since Sunday, you will find that they really do not have a clear policy in place. There is plenty of interpretation available and these hits are all being viewed differently. The NFL is about money and uses the guise of safety to generate rules (or interpretations) to generate more points. Sadly, defense means nothing to the casual or new fan…it is all about the points and fantasy football. The fantasy stuff is fine until the league uses it as an incentive to devalue the game as a whole…and that is exactly what is happening. Somebody will be ejected this week and a couple are likely to get suspended in a typical forced knee-jerk reaction. I believe that if a ref is going to toss a player from a game, he damn-well better officially review the replay beforehand to ensure he gets it right. If there is any question, side with the player.

  27. sixburghrules says: Oct 20, 2010 8:35 PM

    Okay so a player leaves his feet to stop an offensive player! If he hits early it is pass interference! Finnegan of the Titans has gotten away with at least 3 $5K fines. Fischer belongs to the committee that doles out fines! How is that right?

  28. sixburghrules says: Oct 20, 2010 8:35 PM

    Okay so a player leaves his feet to stop an offensive player! If he hits early it is pass interference! Finnegan of the Titans has gotten away with at least 3 $5K fines. Fischer belongs to the committee that doles out fines! How is that right?

  29. Bwa Ha Ha says: Oct 20, 2010 8:35 PM

    It will all get settled when somone dies on the field

  30. Bwa Ha Ha says: Oct 20, 2010 8:35 PM

    It will all get settled when somone dies on the field

  31. SteelHammer92 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:52 PM

    HAHAHAHAHA.. Let the receiver catch a 3rd down pass over the middle, and then try to somehow break up the pass.. Good luck accomplishing that. It’s bad enough you can’t touch a receiver beyond 5 yards, now the NFL want’s to give them a chance to catch a pass without contact? Is this some sort of gag? The NFL cannot be serious? How can any football fan in their right mind defend such an asinine rule?

  32. SteelHammer92 says: Oct 20, 2010 8:52 PM

    HAHAHAHAHA.. Let the receiver catch a 3rd down pass over the middle, and then try to somehow break up the pass.. Good luck accomplishing that. It’s bad enough you can’t touch a receiver beyond 5 yards, now the NFL want’s to give them a chance to catch a pass without contact? Is this some sort of gag? The NFL cannot be serious? How can any football fan in their right mind defend such an asinine rule?

  33. cifey says: Oct 20, 2010 8:54 PM

    Most of you commenters have taken too many shots to the head. Getting a serious head injuries ruins your life, no amount of money is worth that.
    The hit Robinson made was clearly an intent to maim Jackson. That behavior should not be tolerated.

  34. cifey says: Oct 20, 2010 8:54 PM

    Most of you commenters have taken too many shots to the head. Getting a serious head injuries ruins your life, no amount of money is worth that.
    The hit Robinson made was clearly an intent to maim Jackson. That behavior should not be tolerated.

  35. louis starks says: Oct 20, 2010 8:57 PM

    Vince McMahon, where are you and your XFL when we actually need you?
    I’d like to see Vince put Goddell in the camel clutch.

  36. louis starks says: Oct 20, 2010 8:57 PM

    Vince McMahon, where are you and your XFL when we actually need you?
    I’d like to see Vince put Goddell in the camel clutch.

  37. 12+81=7 says: Oct 20, 2010 9:03 PM

    Please stop reporting on the helmet to helmet stuff. Everyone is tired of it. If Brett Favre beats the Packers in the NFC championship game, wins the Super Bowl against the Jets, all while talking to the league about Jenn Sterger, he STILL wouldn’t get this much coverage. We get it… Helmet to helmet hits are bad. Players are now going to be suspended. They used to be fined. The NFL is cracking down on big hits after this weekend. HARRISON ROBINSON MERIWEATHER! WE GET IT

  38. 12+81=7 says: Oct 20, 2010 9:03 PM

    Please stop reporting on the helmet to helmet stuff. Everyone is tired of it. If Brett Favre beats the Packers in the NFC championship game, wins the Super Bowl against the Jets, all while talking to the league about Jenn Sterger, he STILL wouldn’t get this much coverage. We get it… Helmet to helmet hits are bad. Players are now going to be suspended. They used to be fined. The NFL is cracking down on big hits after this weekend. HARRISON ROBINSON MERIWEATHER! WE GET IT

  39. TomsLocks says: Oct 20, 2010 9:03 PM

    @theodore says:
    October 20, 2010 8:12 PM
    We all can sleep well tonight knowing Tom Brady’s hair is safe under his helmet.
    —————————————————-
    Yes, yes you can.

  40. TomsLocks says: Oct 20, 2010 9:03 PM

    @theodore says:
    October 20, 2010 8:12 PM
    We all can sleep well tonight knowing Tom Brady’s hair is safe under his helmet.
    —————————————————-
    Yes, yes you can.

  41. Blackn'Gold says: Oct 20, 2010 9:16 PM

    And are players going to have a copy of the rule book on the playing field, studying it as the offensive player runs by? I doubt you ever played Mr. McKay. But since the owners hired you and Goodell why should it sound any differently. If anyone is to blame it’s the owners.
    So have your lock out or whatever. Resolve it whenever. A year, two years, etc.. We won’t be losing any sleep. I don’t know if I want to watch anymore because of all the fines and suspensions that will be coming. Suspending players, suspending coaches, how about suspending whole teams? You’ll show them who’s boss, Roger!
    There’s the iceberg let’s starting steering the Titanic!
    2010, the year the NFL died.

  42. Blackn'Gold says: Oct 20, 2010 9:16 PM

    And are players going to have a copy of the rule book on the playing field, studying it as the offensive player runs by? I doubt you ever played Mr. McKay. But since the owners hired you and Goodell why should it sound any differently. If anyone is to blame it’s the owners.
    So have your lock out or whatever. Resolve it whenever. A year, two years, etc.. We won’t be losing any sleep. I don’t know if I want to watch anymore because of all the fines and suspensions that will be coming. Suspending players, suspending coaches, how about suspending whole teams? You’ll show them who’s boss, Roger!
    There’s the iceberg let’s starting steering the Titanic!
    2010, the year the NFL died.

  43. bmckay says: Oct 20, 2010 9:17 PM

    Katmanduu says:
    October 20, 2010 8:04 PM
    Nice going Goddell. You and your Band of Boobs just cost yourselves an NFL fan. I just cancelled my NFL package. I’ll just watch my team on the NFL Network replay. Outside of that, I have just lost interest in your product.
    It sucks, and quite frankly, you suck.
    Good riddance.
    ————————————————
    So how are you no longer an NFL fan? By watching their network?

  44. bmckay says: Oct 20, 2010 9:17 PM

    Katmanduu says:
    October 20, 2010 8:04 PM
    Nice going Goddell. You and your Band of Boobs just cost yourselves an NFL fan. I just cancelled my NFL package. I’ll just watch my team on the NFL Network replay. Outside of that, I have just lost interest in your product.
    It sucks, and quite frankly, you suck.
    Good riddance.
    ————————————————
    So how are you no longer an NFL fan? By watching their network?

  45. young.gun says: Oct 20, 2010 9:34 PM

    Is this hit illegal then? For hitting a defenseless receiver?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA

  46. young.gun says: Oct 20, 2010 9:34 PM

    Is this hit illegal then? For hitting a defenseless receiver?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA

  47. young.gun says: Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM

    Is this hit illegal?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA

  48. young.gun says: Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM

    Is this hit illegal?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA

  49. Chitown says: Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM

    Can we at least get full time refs if they are going to take such a cavalier approach to handing teams 15 yards.

  50. Chitown says: Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM

    Can we at least get full time refs if they are going to take such a cavalier approach to handing teams 15 yards.

  51. Latch-Key Kid says: Oct 20, 2010 9:42 PM

    To be fair, he didn’t say you can’t hit a receiver until the act of catching a ball is completed. He said “until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact TO THE HEAD OR NECK AREA with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet…”
    Go ahead and blast the guy as soon as he touches the ball, just hit him below the neck. That actually seems pretty reasonable, since good tackling shouldn’t be hitting them in the head to begin with.
    But overall, I do agree that the league is getting a bit ridiculous with it all.

  52. Latch-Key Kid says: Oct 20, 2010 9:42 PM

    To be fair, he didn’t say you can’t hit a receiver until the act of catching a ball is completed. He said “until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact TO THE HEAD OR NECK AREA with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet…”
    Go ahead and blast the guy as soon as he touches the ball, just hit him below the neck. That actually seems pretty reasonable, since good tackling shouldn’t be hitting them in the head to begin with.
    But overall, I do agree that the league is getting a bit ridiculous with it all.

  53. GreatWhiteNorth says: Oct 20, 2010 10:00 PM

    Based on the comments on this website as well as most others I follow, I’m clearly in the minority in support of the rule.
    I played high school football 30 years ago – I know it’s not comparable to the NFL, but I do remember what it’s like to step on the field and both to hit another player and to take a hit (I concede that if I took a clean hit from the likes of James Harrison or Ray Lewis, I’d likely be in the hospital for a week.)
    Fantavet’s got it right: if a player is close enough to hit another player with his helmet, he’s close enough to tackle him with his arms. If players would just learn to use their arms to wrap up during a tackle, you wouldn’t see all the missed tackles. Ray Lewis, Troy Polomanu, Brian Urlacher – all powerful hitters who are pro-bowlers because they hit hard and use their arms to finish a tackle on the spot. They don’t need to concuss another player to bring him down.
    The NFL will have to sort out the nuances of the rule – incidental helmet-to-helmet contact, whether on a receiver, a QB, or a kicker, should not be penalized with a fine or suspension. A player using his helmet as a weapon and deliberately targeting the opposing player’s head/neck should be ejected, suspended, and fined.
    While the professional athletes of the NFL voluntarily assume a significant risk in a very violent game simply by playing the game, none of them signed up to have their knees blown out by chop blocks, their “privates” smashed by hits below the belt, or their brains turned to jello through repeated concussions. Ask any player if he would agree to hobble around on canes, forego knowing his kids’ names, or eat his meals through a straw for the rest of his life for $100 million; I don’t think you’d have any takers.

  54. GreatWhiteNorth says: Oct 20, 2010 10:00 PM

    Based on the comments on this website as well as most others I follow, I’m clearly in the minority in support of the rule.
    I played high school football 30 years ago – I know it’s not comparable to the NFL, but I do remember what it’s like to step on the field and both to hit another player and to take a hit (I concede that if I took a clean hit from the likes of James Harrison or Ray Lewis, I’d likely be in the hospital for a week.)
    Fantavet’s got it right: if a player is close enough to hit another player with his helmet, he’s close enough to tackle him with his arms. If players would just learn to use their arms to wrap up during a tackle, you wouldn’t see all the missed tackles. Ray Lewis, Troy Polomanu, Brian Urlacher – all powerful hitters who are pro-bowlers because they hit hard and use their arms to finish a tackle on the spot. They don’t need to concuss another player to bring him down.
    The NFL will have to sort out the nuances of the rule – incidental helmet-to-helmet contact, whether on a receiver, a QB, or a kicker, should not be penalized with a fine or suspension. A player using his helmet as a weapon and deliberately targeting the opposing player’s head/neck should be ejected, suspended, and fined.
    While the professional athletes of the NFL voluntarily assume a significant risk in a very violent game simply by playing the game, none of them signed up to have their knees blown out by chop blocks, their “privates” smashed by hits below the belt, or their brains turned to jello through repeated concussions. Ask any player if he would agree to hobble around on canes, forego knowing his kids’ names, or eat his meals through a straw for the rest of his life for $100 million; I don’t think you’d have any takers.

  55. Kenyon1986 says: Oct 20, 2010 10:06 PM

    It is crazy to think that “Head Shots” and the dismantling of defense receivers will ruin the NFL. It will still be the same game and just as exciting but, maybe, all of us couch QB’s out there may not cringe and “Oww” and “Ahh” when one of these hits occur.
    The real problem is that players are not taught or do not respect proper tackling techniques and are going for the ESPN “Jacked Up” Highlight show. The helmet and padding only add to this sense of invincibility and augment the unnecessary hits. I like the idea of taking face masks away or take helmets away entirely. I have a good feeling if this happens then most players will tackle with their shoulders as they should.
    There are other popular sports worldwide which require tackling and are similar to American Football…Rugby and Australian Rules Football where you do not see the type of “Head Shots” which you see in our beloved game. The reason is that the tackler does not have a helmet nor does the tacklee. I also played a lot of tackle football on the sandlots of my youth for many years and no one ever was injured. Same game. Same intesity for competition and winning against your neighborhood kids. We tackled with our shoulders and wrapped the person with the ball up instead of just trying to knock them down with a big hit.
    The NFL is doing the right thing.

  56. Kenyon1986 says: Oct 20, 2010 10:06 PM

    It is crazy to think that “Head Shots” and the dismantling of defense receivers will ruin the NFL. It will still be the same game and just as exciting but, maybe, all of us couch QB’s out there may not cringe and “Oww” and “Ahh” when one of these hits occur.
    The real problem is that players are not taught or do not respect proper tackling techniques and are going for the ESPN “Jacked Up” Highlight show. The helmet and padding only add to this sense of invincibility and augment the unnecessary hits. I like the idea of taking face masks away or take helmets away entirely. I have a good feeling if this happens then most players will tackle with their shoulders as they should.
    There are other popular sports worldwide which require tackling and are similar to American Football…Rugby and Australian Rules Football where you do not see the type of “Head Shots” which you see in our beloved game. The reason is that the tackler does not have a helmet nor does the tacklee. I also played a lot of tackle football on the sandlots of my youth for many years and no one ever was injured. Same game. Same intesity for competition and winning against your neighborhood kids. We tackled with our shoulders and wrapped the person with the ball up instead of just trying to knock them down with a big hit.
    The NFL is doing the right thing.

  57. Zaggs says: Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM

    “A lot of people call it helmet-to-helmet but that’s really not the way you can call it anymore because in essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet,”
    Great. That still doesn’t cover what Robinson did. He hit Jackson, with his shoulder, into Jackson’s chest.
    But then when has the receiver completed the catch? Two feet and then a football move? Thats too long for the defender to wait.

  58. Zaggs says: Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM

    “A lot of people call it helmet-to-helmet but that’s really not the way you can call it anymore because in essence it says that until a player has completed the act of a catch, you cannot initiate contact to the head or neck area with your shoulder, your forearm or your helmet,”
    Great. That still doesn’t cover what Robinson did. He hit Jackson, with his shoulder, into Jackson’s chest.
    But then when has the receiver completed the catch? Two feet and then a football move? Thats too long for the defender to wait.

  59. Deb says: Oct 20, 2010 11:10 PM

    The NFL made no effort to consider how to approach this before running around like Chicken Little. Rules have been in place for three years calling for players who launch improperly to be ejected from games. Not one player has been ejected. But now they’re going to be suspended???? If the NFL had been enforcing its own rules for the last three years, everyone would know by now what’s expected and they wouldn’t have to worry about suspending anyone.
    This is not about projecting the health and safety of players. This is about ensuring high-scoring ballgames to satisfy casual fans who don’t understand defensive strategy. The NFL is watering down the game to make it more appealing to the masses. I don’t want to see players hurt. But if that were the concern, they would have been enforcing the ejection rule all along rather than suddenly knee-jerking into suspensions EXACTLY when they’re in the middle of a big marketing campaign aimed at women.

  60. Deb says: Oct 20, 2010 11:10 PM

    The NFL made no effort to consider how to approach this before running around like Chicken Little. Rules have been in place for three years calling for players who launch improperly to be ejected from games. Not one player has been ejected. But now they’re going to be suspended???? If the NFL had been enforcing its own rules for the last three years, everyone would know by now what’s expected and they wouldn’t have to worry about suspending anyone.
    This is not about projecting the health and safety of players. This is about ensuring high-scoring ballgames to satisfy casual fans who don’t understand defensive strategy. The NFL is watering down the game to make it more appealing to the masses. I don’t want to see players hurt. But if that were the concern, they would have been enforcing the ejection rule all along rather than suddenly knee-jerking into suspensions EXACTLY when they’re in the middle of a big marketing campaign aimed at women.

  61. Opie says: Oct 20, 2010 11:29 PM

    The point, I think, is that the vicious leading with the helmet is illegal. Especially, when the opposing player is in a position as to not defend himself.
    I’m fine with that.
    The over reaction to Robinson’s hit is just unacceptable. He, in no way, tried to hit Jackson with his helmet leading the way. In this instance, the players are correct.
    When you have these types of players moving as fast as they do, a split second change of body position leads to hits like that.
    What happens when a smaller player (Welker) is hit by a much larger player (David Akers) as the smaller player is ducking to the ground? He was aiming for his tummy, but the fool did a “qb slide” and I ended up putting my shoulder into his temple before he was able to “complete the catch…”

  62. Opie says: Oct 20, 2010 11:29 PM

    The point, I think, is that the vicious leading with the helmet is illegal. Especially, when the opposing player is in a position as to not defend himself.
    I’m fine with that.
    The over reaction to Robinson’s hit is just unacceptable. He, in no way, tried to hit Jackson with his helmet leading the way. In this instance, the players are correct.
    When you have these types of players moving as fast as they do, a split second change of body position leads to hits like that.
    What happens when a smaller player (Welker) is hit by a much larger player (David Akers) as the smaller player is ducking to the ground? He was aiming for his tummy, but the fool did a “qb slide” and I ended up putting my shoulder into his temple before he was able to “complete the catch…”

  63. Saints-America'sTeam says: Oct 20, 2010 11:49 PM

    @young.gun – My interpretation of the rule is that yes, that was a legal hit on Reggie Bush on the link you posted. He caught the ball and was hit HARD _after_ the catch but leading with a shoulder. He hit him in the chest and separated him from the ball. I hated the hit because he’s our guy, but I think it’s a legal hit. This is a problem, though. It’s an INTERPRETATION of a rule.
    I agree, Chitown, unless and until full time refs are hired AND replays allowed it’s not going to make a lot of people happy when the refs get it wrong.
    But the enforcement of the rule will NOT ruin football and the chump who’s whining about not watching…well who knows what he’s saying he won’t watch…they’ll watch and this will all be absorbed into the football cosmos. Think of it like a little evolution. The game will go on and people will get smarter.

  64. Saints-America'sTeam says: Oct 20, 2010 11:49 PM

    @young.gun – My interpretation of the rule is that yes, that was a legal hit on Reggie Bush on the link you posted. He caught the ball and was hit HARD _after_ the catch but leading with a shoulder. He hit him in the chest and separated him from the ball. I hated the hit because he’s our guy, but I think it’s a legal hit. This is a problem, though. It’s an INTERPRETATION of a rule.
    I agree, Chitown, unless and until full time refs are hired AND replays allowed it’s not going to make a lot of people happy when the refs get it wrong.
    But the enforcement of the rule will NOT ruin football and the chump who’s whining about not watching…well who knows what he’s saying he won’t watch…they’ll watch and this will all be absorbed into the football cosmos. Think of it like a little evolution. The game will go on and people will get smarter.

  65. OldMan says: Oct 21, 2010 1:54 AM

    How to treat viscious hits. No fine, no suspension, just make the perp play the next 5 games without a helmet.

  66. OldMan says: Oct 21, 2010 1:54 AM

    How to treat viscious hits. No fine, no suspension, just make the perp play the next 5 games without a helmet.

  67. boondocksaint says: Oct 21, 2010 2:15 AM

    It’s complete and total BS that Dunta got fined for a clean, albeit ugly hit. Harrison came in waist high on Massaquoi and got hit in the pocket even harder. Seriously, what does the league want? This is getting ridiculous. Somehow we need to collectively grow a pair and realize it’s a violent sport, and should be.
    “Dirty” hits should be punished, and I’m all for a crackdown on intentional helmet to helmet hits, but at some point we’ve gotta just let the players play ffs.

  68. boondocksaint says: Oct 21, 2010 2:15 AM

    It’s complete and total BS that Dunta got fined for a clean, albeit ugly hit. Harrison came in waist high on Massaquoi and got hit in the pocket even harder. Seriously, what does the league want? This is getting ridiculous. Somehow we need to collectively grow a pair and realize it’s a violent sport, and should be.
    “Dirty” hits should be punished, and I’m all for a crackdown on intentional helmet to helmet hits, but at some point we’ve gotta just let the players play ffs.

  69. contract says: Oct 21, 2010 5:49 AM

    “But then when has the receiver completed the catch? Two feet and then a football move? Thats too long for the defender to wait.”
    Well according to the latest rulings, Robinson might have had to wait to see if Jackson fell down and got up still holding the ball.

  70. contract says: Oct 21, 2010 5:49 AM

    “But then when has the receiver completed the catch? Two feet and then a football move? Thats too long for the defender to wait.”
    Well according to the latest rulings, Robinson might have had to wait to see if Jackson fell down and got up still holding the ball.

  71. bereado says: Oct 21, 2010 6:23 AM

    The same mentality that says “let them play, they know the risks, it;s football” is the same mentality that leads to STDs, vehicular manslaughter, catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay, etc.
    It is the feeling of immortality you have as a young man. The feeling that says nothing bad will happen, and I will never have o deal with consequenses later in life.
    Alas, you grow up, decades pass and you realize that you are not going to be here one day- and you begin paying the price physicially for all of your roughnecking in your youth.
    I used to have that mentality, but then I grew up. I realized that the NFL was not built on these kinds of hard hits: the hard hits did not come before modern helmets.
    I came to realize that concussions cause brain damage, and other serious long term health problems. Lou gehrigs disease has now been linked to chronic head trauma.
    These warriors say now “just let us play, we aren’t wearing skirts” bt when they realize how foolish that mentality is, it will already be too late for them. Rodney Harrison was one of the biggest hitters of his time, look at the change in attitude he has had as he has gotten older.
    The head hunting, helmet to helmet injuries hadve to be eliminated from the game- it will not hurt the game in any way shape or form, if the players are taught better technique and use it.

  72. bereado says: Oct 21, 2010 6:23 AM

    The same mentality that says “let them play, they know the risks, it;s football” is the same mentality that leads to STDs, vehicular manslaughter, catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay, etc.
    It is the feeling of immortality you have as a young man. The feeling that says nothing bad will happen, and I will never have o deal with consequenses later in life.
    Alas, you grow up, decades pass and you realize that you are not going to be here one day- and you begin paying the price physicially for all of your roughnecking in your youth.
    I used to have that mentality, but then I grew up. I realized that the NFL was not built on these kinds of hard hits: the hard hits did not come before modern helmets.
    I came to realize that concussions cause brain damage, and other serious long term health problems. Lou gehrigs disease has now been linked to chronic head trauma.
    These warriors say now “just let us play, we aren’t wearing skirts” bt when they realize how foolish that mentality is, it will already be too late for them. Rodney Harrison was one of the biggest hitters of his time, look at the change in attitude he has had as he has gotten older.
    The head hunting, helmet to helmet injuries hadve to be eliminated from the game- it will not hurt the game in any way shape or form, if the players are taught better technique and use it.

  73. vtboarder says: Oct 21, 2010 6:25 AM

    The pussification of America continues.

  74. vtboarder says: Oct 21, 2010 6:25 AM

    The pussification of America continues.

  75. Opie says: Oct 21, 2010 7:13 AM

    @ bereado says:
    “The same mentality that says “let them play, they know the risks, it;s football” is the same mentality that leads to STDs, vehicular manslaughter, catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay, etc.”
    __________________________________
    Can I borrow your “bubble” when you’re done using it?
    Catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay = STDs = vehicular manslaughter = football players wanting to play physically?
    Why stop there?!? Say it is what has lead to islamic extremism, ADHD, and me not having enough sugar for my dang coffee this morning?
    Seriously, it sounds like you’re going through some type of midlife crisis?
    ___________________________________
    “the hard hits did not come before modern helmets.”
    Really? Come on, man! As for Rodney Harrison, he’s doing it for publicity. Pick an issue and take the controversial side. Argue, watch the comments role in, repeat…….or is that Cornflorio?

  76. Opie says: Oct 21, 2010 7:13 AM

    @ bereado says:
    “The same mentality that says “let them play, they know the risks, it;s football” is the same mentality that leads to STDs, vehicular manslaughter, catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay, etc.”
    __________________________________
    Can I borrow your “bubble” when you’re done using it?
    Catastrophic injuries by way of horseplay = STDs = vehicular manslaughter = football players wanting to play physically?
    Why stop there?!? Say it is what has lead to islamic extremism, ADHD, and me not having enough sugar for my dang coffee this morning?
    Seriously, it sounds like you’re going through some type of midlife crisis?
    ___________________________________
    “the hard hits did not come before modern helmets.”
    Really? Come on, man! As for Rodney Harrison, he’s doing it for publicity. Pick an issue and take the controversial side. Argue, watch the comments role in, repeat…….or is that Cornflorio?

  77. Opie says: Oct 21, 2010 7:18 AM

    @ Deb: you know what, that is a very good point/observation by you. “Follow the money.” Isn’t that what they always say….

  78. Opie says: Oct 21, 2010 7:18 AM

    @ Deb: you know what, that is a very good point/observation by you. “Follow the money.” Isn’t that what they always say….

  79. steelerdynasty says: Oct 21, 2010 7:22 AM

    i’ll keep this simple. by effectively telling defenders that they must wait until a catch is completed to initiate contact, YOU ARE CHANGING THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED. It is no longer possible to use brute force to separate a receiver from the football (as EVERYONE is taught to do). LBs for example do not have the same ball skill set as DBs do, so its not reasonable to ask them to “go for the ball” instead of the receiver, because thats not allowing them to play to their strengths. You just cant legislate everything. Its obvious that they’ve already gotten into the players’ heads about this, they need to let it go and focus on player safety by lengthening the regular season.

  80. steelerdynasty says: Oct 21, 2010 7:22 AM

    i’ll keep this simple. by effectively telling defenders that they must wait until a catch is completed to initiate contact, YOU ARE CHANGING THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED. It is no longer possible to use brute force to separate a receiver from the football (as EVERYONE is taught to do). LBs for example do not have the same ball skill set as DBs do, so its not reasonable to ask them to “go for the ball” instead of the receiver, because thats not allowing them to play to their strengths. You just cant legislate everything. Its obvious that they’ve already gotten into the players’ heads about this, they need to let it go and focus on player safety by lengthening the regular season.

  81. weix says: Oct 21, 2010 7:48 AM

    thank god for college football and the nhl

  82. weix says: Oct 21, 2010 7:48 AM

    thank god for college football and the nhl

  83. TheDPR says: Oct 21, 2010 8:30 AM

    I like Eisen’s replay question. Notice how McKay talks and talks but doesn’t answer it?
    “Replay is not a panacea — we’re not a league that’s going to try to get every play and call right,” McKay said. “We’re going to try to use replay as a complementary system to correct the obvious error on the big, big play. . . . I don’t see us as a league that wants to get into the business of having penalties be reviewed.”
    So McKay’s answer to “why not use replay for this stuff?” is basically, “because we don’t want to.”
    If fantasy football wasn’t so fun and there was another sport in this country that was remotely watchable, the NFL would be screwed. As ineptly run as the league is, every other major sports league is managed even worse. What’s that say about the state of American sports right now?

  84. TheDPR says: Oct 21, 2010 8:30 AM

    I like Eisen’s replay question. Notice how McKay talks and talks but doesn’t answer it?
    “Replay is not a panacea — we’re not a league that’s going to try to get every play and call right,” McKay said. “We’re going to try to use replay as a complementary system to correct the obvious error on the big, big play. . . . I don’t see us as a league that wants to get into the business of having penalties be reviewed.”
    So McKay’s answer to “why not use replay for this stuff?” is basically, “because we don’t want to.”
    If fantasy football wasn’t so fun and there was another sport in this country that was remotely watchable, the NFL would be screwed. As ineptly run as the league is, every other major sports league is managed even worse. What’s that say about the state of American sports right now?

  85. BC says: Oct 21, 2010 9:25 AM

    Check this out from 25 years ago:
    http://www.bucpower.com/brantley-det85h.wmv
    No flag. No fine.
    Sorry folks, the game is violent. People get hurt. If it ceases to be that way people aren’t going to watch.

  86. BC says: Oct 21, 2010 9:25 AM

    Check this out from 25 years ago:
    http://www.bucpower.com/brantley-det85h.wmv
    No flag. No fine.
    Sorry folks, the game is violent. People get hurt. If it ceases to be that way people aren’t going to watch.

  87. ialto says: Oct 21, 2010 9:29 AM

    Plain and simple. If you launch yourself at a player without attempting to wrap up and tackle – that my friend should be an illegal hit. You can still jar the ball loose and do it legally.
    The toughness of football doesn’t need to and will not be lost with this rule change people. It just adds intelligence and fundamentals back to it.

  88. ialto says: Oct 21, 2010 9:29 AM

    Plain and simple. If you launch yourself at a player without attempting to wrap up and tackle – that my friend should be an illegal hit. You can still jar the ball loose and do it legally.
    The toughness of football doesn’t need to and will not be lost with this rule change people. It just adds intelligence and fundamentals back to it.

  89. eagledan says: Oct 21, 2010 9:34 AM

    * A lot of Eagles fans are calling for the head of Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson for his hit on DeSean Jackson. But I have a bigger problem with safety Thomas DeCoud’s late-second quarter shot on Brent Celek. Robinson’s lick on Jackson wasn’t premeditated. He correctly got a penalty because he dropped his head at the last second and caught Jackson under the jaw with his helmet. But he wasn’t head-hunting. DeCoud, on the other hand, was. He was a full 5 yards away from Celek when Kevin Kolb’s pass was tipped by linebacker Curtis Lofton. He had plenty of time to pull up, but opted to follow through and level the Eagles tight end.

  90. eagledan says: Oct 21, 2010 9:34 AM

    * A lot of Eagles fans are calling for the head of Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson for his hit on DeSean Jackson. But I have a bigger problem with safety Thomas DeCoud’s late-second quarter shot on Brent Celek. Robinson’s lick on Jackson wasn’t premeditated. He correctly got a penalty because he dropped his head at the last second and caught Jackson under the jaw with his helmet. But he wasn’t head-hunting. DeCoud, on the other hand, was. He was a full 5 yards away from Celek when Kevin Kolb’s pass was tipped by linebacker Curtis Lofton. He had plenty of time to pull up, but opted to follow through and level the Eagles tight end.

  91. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 10:19 AM

    BTW, for all you blood lust fans, ESPN’s current poll of 114,000+ say that this was the appropriate action by a 52 to 48 percent margin. You should probably head over there and raise it to 48.005%.

  92. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 10:19 AM

    BTW, for all you blood lust fans, ESPN’s current poll of 114,000+ say that this was the appropriate action by a 52 to 48 percent margin. You should probably head over there and raise it to 48.005%.

  93. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 12:01 PM

    Ok, so far that poll has turned on you blood lusters as it’s NOW, 57 to 43.

  94. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 12:01 PM

    Ok, so far that poll has turned on you blood lusters as it’s NOW, 57 to 43.

  95. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 1:12 PM

    I’m sick of reading posts about “blood lusters” by poll-obsessed people with the emotional maturity of third-graders.
    We don’t want to see players injured. However, the NFL has a responsibility to implement rules in a coherent way. Rules designed to limit blow-up hits by ejecting egregious offenders have been in place three years, but the NFL has not bothered to apply them. Now, instead of working with what’s in place, the league is going to escalate to suspending players–effective immediately.
    Players know they’re not to lead with their helmets, but have always been told they can lead with their shoulders. Based on the $50,000 fine for Dunta Robinson, the rules have changes–despite Goodell’s assertions that the rules haven’t changed. I don’t want to see defensive players injured because they’re second-guessing their moves at full speed. Their safety is just as important as anyone else’s.
    Incidentally, the opinions of 57 percent of poll respondents are no more valid than the opinions of 43 percent. An opinion is just that–an opinion.

  96. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 1:12 PM

    I’m sick of reading posts about “blood lusters” by poll-obsessed people with the emotional maturity of third-graders.
    We don’t want to see players injured. However, the NFL has a responsibility to implement rules in a coherent way. Rules designed to limit blow-up hits by ejecting egregious offenders have been in place three years, but the NFL has not bothered to apply them. Now, instead of working with what’s in place, the league is going to escalate to suspending players–effective immediately.
    Players know they’re not to lead with their helmets, but have always been told they can lead with their shoulders. Based on the $50,000 fine for Dunta Robinson, the rules have changes–despite Goodell’s assertions that the rules haven’t changed. I don’t want to see defensive players injured because they’re second-guessing their moves at full speed. Their safety is just as important as anyone else’s.
    Incidentally, the opinions of 57 percent of poll respondents are no more valid than the opinions of 43 percent. An opinion is just that–an opinion.

  97. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 2:26 PM

    The rules haven’t changed ONE IOTA, Deb and you should know that or else stop trying to claim that you know the rules.
    The commissioner is trying to get them to stop using the helmet as a weapon AS THE RULES INTEND. What is different NOW is that he’s threatening them with missing game time, which as some of the defenders as have said THEMSELVES, would be more effective than a fine. It’s the blood lusters that keep threatening to stop watching and that buy all those videos that have kept this crap going. The NFL should have stopped this with Darryl Stingley but they didn’t. Hell, it wasn’t even a penalty until AFTER he was paralyzed; will it take a death for people to understand that they need to stop this?
    You and anyone else that believes that Robinson’s hit wasn’t illegal should have your eyes examined. He hit Jackson in the head with his — WAIT FOR IT — HELMET and even if Jackson wouldn’t have ducked, he would have still hit him in the head with his HELMET. The hit knocked BOTH of them out so how you can possibly say that it was a shoulder hit when they both went down and out. Seriously, did you even bother looking at the play or are you just parroting the comments of the Falcons fans, who are making excuses for Robinson. He LED with his helmet. He hit him with his HELMET. He got a side side but still got him on the helmet and chin. Had he led with his shoulder, it would have been a lower hit but he didn’t. Jackson dropped his head but NOT his body to the point that anyone can say that the hit was exacerbated by his position.
    Now, I’m NOT going after your beloved Harrison or anything other Steeler that you wish to protect, I’m talking about every player that does it on every team (and if they’d let through one of my posts that is far more specific, you’d understand that). If that means that they suspend a Cowboys player – SO BE IT. I don’t play home games with this crap like some people so it doesn’t matter WHO the offender is.
    Funny but I think that if the poll were skewed the other way, you’d point that out as valid, just as you favor polls that give your Tide a higher standing.

  98. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 2:26 PM

    The rules haven’t changed ONE IOTA, Deb and you should know that or else stop trying to claim that you know the rules.
    The commissioner is trying to get them to stop using the helmet as a weapon AS THE RULES INTEND. What is different NOW is that he’s threatening them with missing game time, which as some of the defenders as have said THEMSELVES, would be more effective than a fine. It’s the blood lusters that keep threatening to stop watching and that buy all those videos that have kept this crap going. The NFL should have stopped this with Darryl Stingley but they didn’t. Hell, it wasn’t even a penalty until AFTER he was paralyzed; will it take a death for people to understand that they need to stop this?
    You and anyone else that believes that Robinson’s hit wasn’t illegal should have your eyes examined. He hit Jackson in the head with his — WAIT FOR IT — HELMET and even if Jackson wouldn’t have ducked, he would have still hit him in the head with his HELMET. The hit knocked BOTH of them out so how you can possibly say that it was a shoulder hit when they both went down and out. Seriously, did you even bother looking at the play or are you just parroting the comments of the Falcons fans, who are making excuses for Robinson. He LED with his helmet. He hit him with his HELMET. He got a side side but still got him on the helmet and chin. Had he led with his shoulder, it would have been a lower hit but he didn’t. Jackson dropped his head but NOT his body to the point that anyone can say that the hit was exacerbated by his position.
    Now, I’m NOT going after your beloved Harrison or anything other Steeler that you wish to protect, I’m talking about every player that does it on every team (and if they’d let through one of my posts that is far more specific, you’d understand that). If that means that they suspend a Cowboys player – SO BE IT. I don’t play home games with this crap like some people so it doesn’t matter WHO the offender is.
    Funny but I think that if the poll were skewed the other way, you’d point that out as valid, just as you favor polls that give your Tide a higher standing.

  99. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 3:01 PM

    Did I mention Harrison? I thought the Cribbs hit was legal, but I condemned the Massaquoi hit as soon as I saw it. James knows he plays too rough.
    I thought the league actually said (right after the game) that Robinson’s hit was legal–that he led with his shoulder. Maybe I’m working off erroneous info.
    I don’t have a problem with players being punished for illegal hits. But they’ve had a rule in place for three years that they’d eject those players, so why haven’t they? And why not just enforce that rule now? Why skip that and jump to suspension? I heard Rodney Harrison. Okay, so start with ejections. That should get their attention.
    Of course I don’t want another Darryl Stingley. That’s why I didn’t go to the post about Tatum’s death–knew I couldn’t say anything good so why say anything disrespectful on a death thread?
    My point is that opinion polls are just indicators of opinion and no one is more valid than another. Unfortunately, the college ranking polls are used to decide who wins the championship. I hate that. You know I favor an objective playoff system that has no poll involvement. Given that the only way the Tide can win a championship is by ranking number one in the polls, I’m happy if they do. But the only poll I look at is the one that can lead to a crystal trophy. The others are irrelevant. (Thought I’d said that before.) I don’t even read them. Why bother? That nonsense gives me a headache.

  100. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 3:01 PM

    Did I mention Harrison? I thought the Cribbs hit was legal, but I condemned the Massaquoi hit as soon as I saw it. James knows he plays too rough.
    I thought the league actually said (right after the game) that Robinson’s hit was legal–that he led with his shoulder. Maybe I’m working off erroneous info.
    I don’t have a problem with players being punished for illegal hits. But they’ve had a rule in place for three years that they’d eject those players, so why haven’t they? And why not just enforce that rule now? Why skip that and jump to suspension? I heard Rodney Harrison. Okay, so start with ejections. That should get their attention.
    Of course I don’t want another Darryl Stingley. That’s why I didn’t go to the post about Tatum’s death–knew I couldn’t say anything good so why say anything disrespectful on a death thread?
    My point is that opinion polls are just indicators of opinion and no one is more valid than another. Unfortunately, the college ranking polls are used to decide who wins the championship. I hate that. You know I favor an objective playoff system that has no poll involvement. Given that the only way the Tide can win a championship is by ranking number one in the polls, I’m happy if they do. But the only poll I look at is the one that can lead to a crystal trophy. The others are irrelevant. (Thought I’d said that before.) I don’t even read them. Why bother? That nonsense gives me a headache.

  101. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 5:42 PM

    Take a full look at the hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAR_zEvT7dM
    From the back side, it looks like it’s more shoulder than helmet but from the front, you can clearly see that he got him with the helmet and it wasn’t the case as one person said that he hit him with his shoulder and his head slipped up and hit Jackson, who had ducked. He LED with his head and he hit him with his HEAD and they BOTH were knocked out.
    Big deal, they didn’t enforce it but NOW, they are. Offensive pass interference has been on the books forever but certain players have gotten away with it and then they and their fans get indignant when the league decides to stop turning their heads. Let’s not forget that these same defenders who are calling all the offensive players wimps and talking about putting them in skirts were complaining about chop blocks and were thanking the league when they finally came down on the offenders and saved THEIR careers. I find it hypocritical for them to want protection but not the other way around. I say that IF the defenders want to be able to hit a defenseless player and end their career that we allow the chop block to come back as an equalizer. I wonder how quickly they’d change their tune if that were to happen?
    As for the last part: I’ve petition the NCAA for decades for a playoff. I’ve sent my plan to the WAC and MWC but haven’t heard anything from them. I prefer a playoff but as long as there are computer polls, I’ll have my own as well and it’s as valid as anyone’s since I’ve been computing power rankings, starting with a basic 4 function calculator back in the stone ages of computing.

  102. edgy1957 says: Oct 21, 2010 5:42 PM

    Take a full look at the hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAR_zEvT7dM
    From the back side, it looks like it’s more shoulder than helmet but from the front, you can clearly see that he got him with the helmet and it wasn’t the case as one person said that he hit him with his shoulder and his head slipped up and hit Jackson, who had ducked. He LED with his head and he hit him with his HEAD and they BOTH were knocked out.
    Big deal, they didn’t enforce it but NOW, they are. Offensive pass interference has been on the books forever but certain players have gotten away with it and then they and their fans get indignant when the league decides to stop turning their heads. Let’s not forget that these same defenders who are calling all the offensive players wimps and talking about putting them in skirts were complaining about chop blocks and were thanking the league when they finally came down on the offenders and saved THEIR careers. I find it hypocritical for them to want protection but not the other way around. I say that IF the defenders want to be able to hit a defenseless player and end their career that we allow the chop block to come back as an equalizer. I wonder how quickly they’d change their tune if that were to happen?
    As for the last part: I’ve petition the NCAA for decades for a playoff. I’ve sent my plan to the WAC and MWC but haven’t heard anything from them. I prefer a playoff but as long as there are computer polls, I’ll have my own as well and it’s as valid as anyone’s since I’ve been computing power rankings, starting with a basic 4 function calculator back in the stone ages of computing.

  103. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 6:15 PM

    Well #$%@^#!
    I just love making five million erroneous posts! This is what happens when you’re working too many hours and don’t take time to check things out for yourself. I checked out James’s hits–which is why I said “Sorry Steelers fans, but that was a bad hit on Massaquoi.” But could have sworn I read that the NFL cleared Robinson, then turned around and fined him. Thanks for the link–it certainly looked like he led with his head.
    As I said, I don’t have a problem with punishing dirty hits–as long was it’s obvious they’re dirty. Do think, however, that they should enforce the ejection rule that’s already in place before they start suspending.
    Yes, in terms of quality, I’m sure your poll is as valid as the others. I don’t think any of them are valid. Never have. But your poll doesn’t factor in to deciding the championship, so that’s why I said it’s irrelevant. That’s just simple reality. I find the whole thing unbearably stupid. No they’re not going to answer your letters. This is the NCAA–the most corrupt outfit in sports. That would be like sending Bonnie and Clyde a note suggesting they stop robbing banks. If he hadn’t been consumed by two wars, a near Depression, plus Nazis and witches and Beck OH MY!! throwing nonstop tantrums over losing to the black guy, the president might have been able to focus a little attention on the playoff issue. He did mention it during the campaign.

  104. Deb says: Oct 21, 2010 6:15 PM

    Well #$%@^#!
    I just love making five million erroneous posts! This is what happens when you’re working too many hours and don’t take time to check things out for yourself. I checked out James’s hits–which is why I said “Sorry Steelers fans, but that was a bad hit on Massaquoi.” But could have sworn I read that the NFL cleared Robinson, then turned around and fined him. Thanks for the link–it certainly looked like he led with his head.
    As I said, I don’t have a problem with punishing dirty hits–as long was it’s obvious they’re dirty. Do think, however, that they should enforce the ejection rule that’s already in place before they start suspending.
    Yes, in terms of quality, I’m sure your poll is as valid as the others. I don’t think any of them are valid. Never have. But your poll doesn’t factor in to deciding the championship, so that’s why I said it’s irrelevant. That’s just simple reality. I find the whole thing unbearably stupid. No they’re not going to answer your letters. This is the NCAA–the most corrupt outfit in sports. That would be like sending Bonnie and Clyde a note suggesting they stop robbing banks. If he hadn’t been consumed by two wars, a near Depression, plus Nazis and witches and Beck OH MY!! throwing nonstop tantrums over losing to the black guy, the president might have been able to focus a little attention on the playoff issue. He did mention it during the campaign.

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