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Week Nine Monday 10-pack

It’s always a challenge to reduce a crazy Sunday to a series of 10 takes.

But this job still beats working for a living, so it’s a challenge we embrace.

And so we give you this week’s largely Chilly-free Monday 10-pack. 


1.  Randy Moss, Titans begin their honeymoon.

Though the Titans didn’t play in Week Nine, their newest player continues to dominate the 24-hour NFL news cycle. 

Receiver Randy Moss arrived Sunday in Tennessee, joining a team with a suddenly better standing in the AFC South, given losses on Sunday by the Colts (5-3) and Texans (4-4).  Whether the marriage is a successful one remains to be seen.

And it will depend on several key questions.

First, how will the Titans use him?  Will he be a glorified decoy, like he was in New England and Minnesota?  Or will the Titans keep him involved and motivated and focused by feeding him like a Thanksgiving turkey?

Second, who will keep Moss accountable?  On other teams, veteran leadership would play an important roll in reeling in Randy when Randy is being Randy.  The Titans don’t have much of that this year, a season after defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch, linebacker Keith Bulluck, and center Kevin Mawae have departed.  Backup quarterback Kerry Collins has the gray hair and experience with Moss in Oakland (which possibly accounted for some of the gray hair).  But does Moss respect Collins enough to listen to him?

Third, does Moss realize that this is his last chance to get the kind of contract he thinks he deserves?  He wants $10 million per year.  He’ll have to settle for far less, if he’s lucky.  If he can’t set the stage for a long-term arrangement, he’ll descend into the T.O. phase of his career, signing a string of one-year contracts with whoever is desperate enough to do a deal with the devil in any given year.

It’s high-risk stuff for the Titans, who still play the Texans and Colts twice each.  If it works, the franchise that left Houston in the 1990s could be heading back to Texas in February.  If it doesn’t, Jeff Fisher could be feeling the same way Brad Childress is feeling right about now.

2.  If Holmgren coaches in 2011, it may not be the Browns.

When Browns president Mike Holmgren made the media rounds last week, conducting a press conference and appearing on The Dan Patrick Show, it sure seemed as if the Big Show is getting ready to return to the sidelines.

Given the recent success of Eric Mangini in Cleveland, Holmgren may have to go elsewhere if he wants to coach again.

If that’s what he wants to do — and if Browns owner Randy Lerner will release Holmgren from the balance of his contract — there could be plenty of options.  In Dallas, Holmgren could be the kind of non-puppet who would be able to help set the table with owner/G.M. Jerry Jones.  In San Francisco, he’d be going home, helping to restore glory to a franchise that hasn’t done all that much since he left 18 years ago.  And don’t rule out the Vikings making a strong run at yet another Packers legend.

Even if the Browns don’t continue their recent success, Mangini doesn’t think that Holmgren’s feelings regarding coaching will affect Mangini’s status in Cleveland.

“I get it,” Mangini told PFT on Sunday evening, “because I don’t
know what I’d do if I wasn’t coaching.  What he’s doing now isn’t as
exciting as it is coaching on Sunday. . . .  Nothing’s changed between
us.  He’s been great.  That’s what I go by.  What he’s done, how he’s
acted.”

In the end, then, the relationship between Mangini and Holmgren may not truly be tested until they’re squaring off on opposite sidelines.  Like they did in Week 16 of the 2008 season, when Holmgren’s Seahawks helped grease the skids for Mangini’s exit in New York by beating the Jets, 9-6.
 
3.  End of the road for Wade.

All of those folks in the media who have claimed all year that Cowboys owner Jerry Jones would never fire coach Wade Phillips because Jones never has fired a head coach in 21 years of owning the team either already have forgotten or will soon be forgetting that they ever uttered those words.

With Jones refusing to talk about Wade’s status after Sunday night’s 45-7 loss to the Packers, it’s looking like the time has come for Phillips to go.

While it’s true that a midseason coaching change rarely helps turn a season around, the Cowboys no longer have a season to turn around.  The Cowboys now face bigger issues.  Sooner or later, Jones must confront the possibility of the fan base revolting if Phillips doesn’t pay for this 1-7 debacle with his job.

Besides, with offensive coordinator Jason Garrett getting paid like a head coach, why not give him a chance to demonstrate whether he can be a viable candidate for the gig in 2011?

Then again, Garrett already is operating as a co-head coach of sorts, making it harder to justify giving Garrett a chance to salvage a ship that already has run aground.

Either way, something needs to happen.  And it needs to happen soon.  And Jones finally seems to be figuring it out.  And all those folks who dismissed talk of Wade getting fired during the season — and calling out those of us who said it could happen — will now be conveniently forgetting their own words.

4.  “Second act” exception apparently has been scuttled.

The good news, if there is any, regarding Sunday’s nullification of Arian Foster’s first-half touchdown reception in the Chargers-Texans game is that the made-up “second act” exception apparently has been scuttled.

If it hadn’t been, the ruling would have been that Foster performed a “second act” by lunging across the goal line after catching the pass from Matt Schaub.

Instead of relying on the made-up “second act” exception, the officials applied the rule as written.  Foster failed to keep control of the ball through the process of going to the ground, which made the pass incomplete.

Of course, the implicit acknowledgment that the “second act” exception doesn’t exist won’t do much for the Colts, who were burned by it in Super Bowl XLIV, when Lance Moore pushed the ball across the goal line while going to the ground after making the catch.  Though he lost possession when he struck the ground, the play was ruled a valid two-point conversion, based on the “second act” of breaking the plane of the end zone.

It also does nothing for the average fan, who watches a play like Foster’s catch and assumes that it’s a touchdown.

Indeed, when everyone but the officials consider a play to be a valid catch, it means that the NFL needs to address the rule, once and for all.

5.  Inconsistent application of celebration rule contiues.

In Week Five, the Cowboys were burned in a loss to the Titans by a bright-line application of the celebration rule, which prohibits players from going to the ground when reveling in their accomplishments.

The only exception?  Prayer.

Vikings running back Adrian Peterson never has been flagged for going to the ground after scoring, even though it doesn’t appear that he’s praying.  On Sunday, for example, he caught a touchdown pass, dropped to his knees, and blew a double-handed kiss to the crowd.

No prayer.  But also no flag.

It gets better.  Or, from the perspective of a Cowboys fan, worse.  After scoring his first of two touchdowns against the Browns on Sunday, Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez jumped toward teammate Logan Mankins, who thrust Hernandez into the air, causing him to land on the ground.

It was no less intentional than Marc Colombo’s chest-bump-and-fall-down with Jason Witten, which drew a flag.  For Hernandez?  No flag.

Though the two games involved two different officiating crews, it shouldn’t matter.  V.P. of officiating Carl Johnson has said it’s a bright-line rule, with no room for discretion.
  
Apparently, there is room for discretion.  And if the rule isn’t tightened up and enforced evenly and consistently, the league needs to get rid of it entirely.   

6.  Defenseless receivers get rocked, again.

The league would like to be able to say that the post-Week Six focus on illegal hits against defenseless receivers has solved the problem.  But it wouldn’t be true.

Week Nine’s Sunday games featured two more crushing blows against pass-catchers.  Colts receiver Austin Collie suffered a concussion on a helmet-to-helmet hit delivered while he was catching a pass.  Cowboys receiver Roy Williams absorbed a far more blatant helmet hit from Packers safety Nick Collins.

Still, both hits violated the rules, despite the protests of a pair of Collie’s Colts teammates. 

“No, it didn’t look like intent,” safety Aaron Francisco said after the game, per Paul Kuharsky of ESPN.com.  “When a player gets hit by
two guys, not really simultaneously but one after another, it’s kind of
hard as a defensive back to keep your head out of the way.  That guy is
getting hit towards you, you don’t know where his head is going to be or
whatever.”

But intent doesn’t matter.  If a defenseless receiver is hit with a helmet or in the helmet, the rule has been violated.

As to Collins, his hit on Williams looked a lot more willful and malicious.  Collins is certain to draw a huge fine, and he could be the first player suspended under the league’s new procedures for enforcing the rules.

7.  Non-kickers get their kicks.

A day after the Week Nine PFT Mailbag included a question from a reader who’d like to see the NFL outlaw kicking specialists and force “regular” players to kick the ball, not one but two “regular” players got a chance to do the irregular.

Defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh attempted an extra point for the Lions (he missed it) and receiver Wes Welker tried one for the Patriots (he made it).

While it’s refreshing to see this kind of thing (except for the fact that the Lions could have used that point in order to avoid overtime), why didn’t the Lions and the Patriots go for two in those situations?  With the conversion rate for two-point tries slightly north of 50 percent and the success rate for extra-point tries by non-kickers somewhere slightly south of 99.9 percent, it makes more sense to go for two.

It also makes sense to have on the roster a punter who can get the job done with a greater chance of success than a defensive tackle.  Unless the more desirable secondary skill for a punter is the willingness to take off with the ball on a fourth-and-18 play.

8.  Overtime rules still need to be changed.

On Sunday, three games went to overtime.  In two of them (Cardinals-Vikings and Chiefs-Raiders), the team that won the toss and received the opening kickoff lost.  In the third, the Jets took the kick and drove down the field without the Lions getting the ball.

The fact that 66.7 percent of the Week Nine overtime games didn’t end in an unfair fashion doesn’t make the other 33.3 percent of the Week Nine overtime outcomes fair and equitable. 

Put simply, the Lions should have had a chance to match or beat the field goal scored by the Jets. 

The league has tweaked the sudden-victory rule as it applies to the postseason.  Though many expected the same rule to be applied in the regular season, it wasn’t.  And thus teams periodically will not get a fair shake when games go to overtime.

9.  Rivers for MVP.

The San Diego Chargers are making yet another big run after starting slowly, with back-to-back wins over the previously 5-2 Titans and previously 4-3 Texans.  And one guy gets the bulk of the credit.

Quarterback Philip Rivers remains on pace after nine games to set the single-season passing yardage record.  And he’s making it happen with a Peyton Manning-style patchwork of receivers and tight ends.

At 4-5 and with the Raiders at 5-4 and the Chiefs at 5-3, the Chargers can still win the division.  If they do — and if Rivers breaks Dan Marino’s single-season yardage record — Rivers should get plenty of votes for league MVP.

10.  Matt Stafford can’t stay healthy.

When the Rams picked quarterback Sam Bradford with the first selection in the 2010 draft, the biggest question mark related to his durability.  After all, Bradford’s shoulder had been blown apart last year on a hit from a 230-pound linebacker.

Surprisingly, Bradford has held up in his rookie season.  His 2009 counterpart, however, has struggled to stay healthy in two NFL campaigns.

Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford, the first pick in the 2009 draft, can’t avoid injury.  He missed six games last year and five (and counting) in 2010 due to injury.  When he has played, he has played well.  But it’s hard to consistently play well when the player isn’t consistently playing.

On Sunday, he re-injured a right shoulder that he originally injured in Week One.

Thus, before Stafford ever can become a franchise quarterback, he needs to find a way to stay on the field.  Until he does, he’ll never be a franchise quarterback.      

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58 Responses to “Week Nine Monday 10-pack”
  1. crazyguy says: Nov 8, 2010 8:09 AM

    IF Collins is suspended… the whole league should cry “BS!” He lowered his head (yes, he did) but being malicious? NO way. A fine? Definitely. Keep your head up, young man. Just like they teach in 4th grade.
    There were far worse hits than that which have been just fined. If he does get suspended I expect an appeal and a fight from the players union. Yes, there needs to be protection but before suspension there needs to be expulsion from the game first.

  2. PFTiswhatitis says: Nov 8, 2010 8:10 AM

    C’mon Florio dont get carried away with the illegal helmet to helmet hit thing. Collie was no longer a receiver. He had caught the ball, turned and ran several steps when he was hit, that means he is no longer defenseless. Helmet hits are legal on a player running with the ball. Otherwise they cant be defended.

  3. rickah99 says: Nov 8, 2010 8:26 AM

    11. Dallas is a joke(for over a decade)

  4. DarnSkippy says: Nov 8, 2010 8:26 AM

    The hit on Collie was clean. He took two steps and lowered his shoulders to absorb the hit. Samuels led with his shoulder pads.

  5. aec4 says: Nov 8, 2010 8:37 AM

    Some of your argument can be combated in the NYJ/DET OT game. The Jets got to the 15 and basically sat on the ball. If they knew a TD ended the game, FG let DET have the ball once, don’t you think they would have tried a little harder to score?

  6. The Real Shuxion says: Nov 8, 2010 8:40 AM

    The MVP race should be as follows:
    1. Rivers
    That is all.

  7. wasteguru says: Nov 8, 2010 8:43 AM

    The Collie was not defenseless and it wasn’t helmet to helmet. Slow motion shows he caught the ball took 2 steps and lowered his head. That’s a football move thus not defenseless. He got hit in the side w/ a shoulder pad from the 1st defender and then pushed into the 2nd defender who hit w/ his shoulder pad as well. Technically this is a fumble…try again florio!

  8. joe hvw says: Nov 8, 2010 8:44 AM

    So taking three steps, covering the ball, and putting your head down is still “while catching a pass?”
    When a player puts his head down and is an established runner, helmet hits are allowed. Nevermoind that both Mikell and Coleman lead with their shoulders.
    I love this site, but you guys really dig your heels in the sand once you start on a stance about some topic you can make a million posts about and stop looking at things objectively. Your fake modesty about your influence on the league is pathetic. Quit the aw shucks act and start being responsible and respectable.

  9. normcfh says: Nov 8, 2010 8:46 AM

    Detroit should have invested more top draft picks in the O-line.
    Stafford was the right pick, but their O-line was embarrasing bad. Yet in ’09 they didn’t draft an O-lineman until the 7th round, and not until the 4th round in ’10.
    Pettigrew, Suh, and Best were all great draft picks, but you can’t keep ignoring the O-line and not expect Stafford to stay healthy.

  10. SgtRoc99 says: Nov 8, 2010 8:50 AM

    On number 6-Colts receiver Austin Collie suffered a concussion on a helmet-to-helmet hit delivered while he was catching a pass.
    Maybe I saw it wrong, but Collie caught the ball and took two steps, lowered his head (human reaction for someone about to be clobbered) and got hit by two defenders at once. I hope he is OK, but he clearly wasn’t hit making the catch.

  11. Calistin says: Nov 8, 2010 8:53 AM

    So Collins, a first time offender, should be suspended, but Harrison should just keep racking up fines?
    Nice precedent. It really shouldn’t warrant more than a fine. Especially after with Roy Williams himself was quoted as saying:
    “Commissioner Goodell, don’t fine the guy,” Williams said. “It wasn’t that bad of a deal, he shouldn’t get fined. It was a football play, a football player making a football play. No injury, no harm.”
    Williams was back in the game 3 plays later. It only looks intentional if you watch it in super slow motion. Collins helmet would have hit Williams in the back if Williams hadn’t been falling. He couldn’t see if the ball was out and was making a play. Not intentional.
    No suspension.

  12. apfister says: Nov 8, 2010 9:01 AM

    Florio, if you listened to any of the commentators after the Eagles game, most were outraged by that “helmet-to-helmet” penalty. Cowher had that crazy snarl going almost yelling and pounding on the table saying “do not fine that young man!” I’d say it’s debateable how much helmet contact there was and the flag came late after Collie was seen motionless. Most of the commentators even thought Collie wasn’t defenseless as he covered up the ball, had to feet down, and was starting to run.
    It was scary to see Collie down but that call nearly cost the Eagles the game and if Coleman comes away with any fine or suspension, it would be egregious.

  13. SuckitFlorio says: Nov 8, 2010 9:03 AM

    I love how you continue to make up stories that suit your needs… you can watch that Collie play a million times over and if you don’t see that his two feet come down and he covers up the ball, then you dont want to see it. That by definition no longer makes him defenseless. But hey that wouldn’t make for a very interesting article would it, so continue to make it up as you go!

  14. Browns Fan til' Death says: Nov 8, 2010 9:06 AM

    Florio why are you always trying to stir things up with the browns. Holmgren isn’t going any where for a while. He has already said he is staying here to make good on his promise to Lerner to turn the organization around. If he is coaching somewhere in the next few years then Mangini royally effed up and he’ll be coaching for us

  15. simple_simon1 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:08 AM

    Well said about Stafford. As a Lions fan, we need a person that can be on the field. I like his talent when he plays, but he didn’t even take any hard hits yesterday and came up gimpy. If the shoulder wasn’t fully healed then it ought to be known. If it was, we need to start looking for a new QB because the hits he took to injure his shoulder yesterday were almost just light falls to the ground.

  16. Dewel says: Nov 8, 2010 9:08 AM

    In regards to the Collie hit, maybe intent doesn’t matter if you’re talking about striking a defenseless receiver, but in this case Collie was not defenseless. He caught the ball, took two steps, lowered his head, and this was contacted. He defended himself and took a clean, hard hit. This is exactly the sort of play that fans worried would be legislated out with the new emphasis on protection.

  17. jewcutlernation says: Nov 8, 2010 9:09 AM

    With response to the celebration, how about this. You have 3-5 seconds maximum to perform an act or prayer from the time the ball crosses the goal line and its deemed a touchdown. If they are on the ground they lose 1-3 seconds getting up to celebrate, and if a player truly gets a touchdown due to a great move and has time, let him celebrate that feat, every yard is an achievement in the league. 3-5 second celebration, everyone loves it, let the fans have what they want

  18. willmose says: Nov 8, 2010 9:09 AM

    On point 8. The Chiefs won the toss and went 3 and out. Don’t go out for a beer break during the coin toss for OT. It is okay to not like the OT setup in the NFL. It is NOT okay to lie to us about what happened. Gee, get it right. Who do you think you are Rush Limbaugh, making up facts to fit your point of view? You are, however, now qualified to be an NFL offical. What you see happening of the field is better than most of them.
    BTW, point 11. The officiating in the Chiefs-Raider game was the worst of the season. There was no bias to the bad calls, but the bad calls were legion. It looked as if the officals did not have a clue.

  19. Truecoat says: Nov 8, 2010 9:11 AM

    Why isn’t the lambeau leap considered excessive celebration? It doesn’t make sense, I player jumps over another player and that gets flagged. A player jumps into the stands and mugs for the camera with the fans and that’s ok. Ban the Lambeau Leap!!!

  20. Roxtar10 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:17 AM

    If you can’t produce wins, how valuable a player are you? Isn’t the measuring stick in the NFL…winning games? Sure – Rivers is throwing for a crapload of yards and stats, but also has critical turn-overs that have cost them wins. Not to say he shouldn’t be a candidate by season end if he keeps this pace up AND the Chargers make the playoffs (collapses by Oakland and KC should allow that), but to say he’s a candidate now is off-base.

  21. tharealucejuice says: Nov 8, 2010 9:18 AM

    how about that excessive celebration called on the Raiders after Jacoby Ford returned a kickoff for a TD. #54 Sam Williams was flagged for “jumping in the stands after another player had already done so”. What’s the big deal?
    There’s a reason these officials wear stripes. They’re criminals.

  22. simple_simon1 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:23 AM

    normcfh:
    I agree the Lions should draft O-line, but they’ve played just fine this year. I know he got blown up in the game against Chicago, but this week, they didn’t let anybody get near him. I’m worried he’s a band-aid and, unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do if he is. He’s so good when he plays and the team is electric when he’s out there, but if he can’t stay out there, we need to find a new QB.

  23. FinFan6886 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:27 AM

    Florio, please let the “second act” thing go. That was simply an ill-advised attempt to articulate a ruling. The premise was false…and it does not apply to the play you keep citing. In that play, the player caught the ball, lost it while going to the ground, and regained control while already on the ground (still not touched yet so play is still live). Then he reached the ball over the goalline (ahem…as soon as the ball crosses the plane it is a score) where an opposing player kicked it out of his hands.

  24. nps6724 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:37 AM

    Why when Drew Brees topped 5000 yards did no one think he should win the MVP on a mediocre squad, yet Rivers may top 5000 yards on a mediocre squad and win it? And Brees did it with a patchwork of WRs and TEs (Colston, Bush, and Shockey each missed 5+ games).
    If Vick starts the rest of the way and Philly keeps winning, he should be under heavy consideration. This is coming from someone who never liked the guy.

  25. StupidityIsFundemental says: Nov 8, 2010 9:38 AM

    >> joe hvw says:
    “I love this site, but you guys really dig your heels in the sand once you start on a stance about some topic you can make a million posts about and stop looking at things objectively.”
    +500 to this. I’m not in disagreement with this overall issue, but yes, this pretty much describes the editorial philosophy.
    Well said.

  26. jbraider says: Nov 8, 2010 9:44 AM

    Imagine that the Raiders had gotten the ball first in OT and kicked the winning field goal. Would you be whining about the injustice reaped upon a KC team who would have already lost the game if not for a horrendously bad call on the muffed punt?
    My point is that no matter how much you spin it, this game is 20+% luck – bad calls, non-calls, funny bounces, weather, etc. WHatever factor “luck” may play in OT results is inconsequential next to the role it plays in getting you to OT in the first place.
    Overtime has nothing to do with the reality of justice – of determining which is the better team. If, after 60 minutes of play, neither team has been able to demonstrate it is the better team by accumulating more points, then neither one deserves a win.
    Overtime is all about making the audience happy. People don’t like ties – they want a winner. So don’t get all high and mighty talking about making OT “fair”. The only “fair” way of determining the better team would be to repeat the game (all 4 quarters) at some later date.

  27. Sam says: Nov 8, 2010 9:45 AM

    It was a good read, but i think your missing something that i hope you bring up in a post after tonights game. In what confrence does the dominance truely lie? For the first 7 weeks its was hands down the AFC. However after yesterday, 3 of 4 AFC division leaders lost. While the NFC had 3 of 4 win and there is no other way it could have ended any ways because the Giants played the Seahawks. I say the Giants are the best team in football even before tonights Steelers-Bengals game. And what AFC team is second? The self proclaimed best team, Jets? Who had to use OT to beat the Lions? Yea the lions are better than everyone thinks but if your the “Best” then these games should be money in the bank. And last weeks #1 team in power rankings, the Patriots. It looks like the student stumped the teacher in that one, again dominant teams don’t lose those games. The Cheifs and Colts played quality opponents, but still should have won. Now in the NFC, The Giants, Packers and Saints Rolled and the Falcons played, at the time, the number 2 team in their divison for a first place game. And the Bears won a game they were supposed to agianst my home town Bills. So they did what dominant teams do, win the games their supposed to, and make enough plays to win the games that are going to be close. I hope tomorrow i see the Power Rankings with 3 NFC teams at 1, 2, and 3, regardless of tonights game. (Gaints, Falcons, Saints, and possibly Packers at 4 but going to be pushing it due to record, and result of tonights game)

  28. DEMOLITION says: Nov 8, 2010 9:47 AM

    You can file this under #5.
    Raiders were penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct. The reason? A player jumped into the stands when there was already another player I’m the stands.
    WTF? Let the fans enjoy the game. They paid their hard earned money. Don’t you want them to come back?
    I doubt the opponent counted how many jumped in the stands to celebrate. One? Two? That didnt make them mad. Jealous sure.
    No Fun League is right.

  29. teeg01 says: Nov 8, 2010 9:47 AM

    Here’s a real novel idea to protect QB’s and WR’s.
    Don’t send everyone out to run a pattern and expect your QB to make a “hot read” before he gets plastered into the ground (read this Mike Martz). Maybe having a TE and RB in will prevent a steam roll tackle. QBs mostly get hurt when the defender has 8-10 yards of running space before the hit.
    If you are a WR and you go in the middle of the field, you are going to get whacked. So if you coach wants you to run a crossing pattern or slant in the middle of the field, maybe he doesn’t like you. Staying to the side of the field or doing button hooks will keep WR for seeing tweety bird. Let TE doing that work, they are bigger and can take the punishment.

  30. Cometkazie says: Nov 8, 2010 9:48 AM

    Regarding item 4, I agree with aec4 that the current system is not fair, but I would go on to say that the NFL is not interested in fairness or in competition, for that matter. They are driven by money and the gamblers force them to give the appearance of fairness. The NFL just wants the game over ASAP. I maintain a two possession OT like the colleges/HS have would work. Kick after the first possession and two points after the second. There is nothing wrong with a tie and post-season competition could have the current rule for playoffs. Look how poorly college teams do following an extended overtime.
    The Lambeau Leap is one form of celebration that doesn’t grate on my nerves, much better than strutting like a peacock.

  31. Richie's Rebel Rousers says: Nov 8, 2010 9:51 AM

    So what is the Safety to do? Let Collie catch the ball and then tackle him.
    The Lawyering of the game is going to kill it!

  32. kickinitoleschool says: Nov 8, 2010 10:02 AM

    Stafford is not the problem…if they have an o-line to keep him off the ground…then he will be fine…

  33. koyote_ken says: Nov 8, 2010 10:03 AM

    12. The Cowboys have the dumbest GM in the history of professional sports.
    HA HA!!!

  34. yaryers says: Nov 8, 2010 10:11 AM

    @ Roxtar10:
    Its not Rivers with the critical turnovers…its all of his skill players fumbling. Rivers’ picks have not been the main reason they’ve lost any games, and at least 2 of his picks are on 3rd down bombs that work almost as well as punts, and a few have been on desperation 4th quarter drives, where he had to force it.

  35. SlimEagan says: Nov 8, 2010 10:21 AM

    Nothing is wrong with overtime. The Bills lost in OT 2 weeks in a row. No one to blame but the team. There were no long returns or pealties that put teams into FG range easily. Defenses did what they were paid to to, stop the offense. In the Chiefs V Bills game, the game went to the final seconds of OT. Cut the OT whining.

  36. cwinckler says: Nov 8, 2010 10:31 AM

    If no one gets flagged for the “Lambeau Leap”, then the excessive celebration rule should be scrapped.

  37. Schatt Maub says: Nov 8, 2010 10:33 AM

    1) The hit on Collie did not warrant a flag, nor does it warrant a fine or suspension.
    2) The hit on Williams warrants all three.
    3) Wade Phillips certainly would do a better job than Frank Bush as Texans defensive coordinator.
    4) Mike Holmgren would certainly do a better job than Gary Kubiak as Texans head coach.
    5) The overtime rules blow.
    6) Jeff Fisher cannot tame Moss, who will be a problem within a couple of weeks.

  38. PossibleCabbage says: Nov 8, 2010 11:10 AM

    To be honest, I don’t think that the Nick Collins hit should qualify as the first helmet-to-helmet hit that brings about a suspension. Certainly it was deliberate, malicious, and illegal (as though malice on a football field is somehow bad), but I think before we start suspending people we should look at the effects of said hit.
    The Hit on Austin Collie yesterday? He got carted out on a stretcher, presumably with a bad concussion, missed the rest of the game and will miss some time.
    The hit on Roy Williams? Williams was initially dazed, but he was also back in the game two plays later (Kitna threw an incompletion in the direction of Roy Williams on the 3rd down of the series whose first down was brought upon by the unnecessary roughness penalty, check the box score.)
    Generally, I’ve always thought that a good standard for suspensions in professional sports is “If you injure someone with an illegal act, the length of your suspension will be commensurate to the amount of time the other guy misses.” So if you go helmet to helmet maliciously and illegally in the first half, and cause the guy to miss at least half a game… that’s probably worthy of a suspension. If you go helmet-to-helmet maliciously and cause a guy to miss 2-3 plays, that’s is and should be a hefty fine but nobody should be suspended.

  39. Ucantzstopuz says: Nov 8, 2010 11:28 AM

    hahahah I was waiting for PFT to try to dis credit this raider win. You guys must of thought “Hmmmm how can we say this win does not count?” “Oh yeah lets blame it on the overtime rule!”
    Raiders dominated that game, Cheifs would of had NO tds at all if it wasnt for the refs tryin to screw the raiders.
    PFT your nightmare has became reality
    RAIDERS ARE BAck in the best team in the nfl!
    I cant wait for the raiders to BEAT YOUR STEELERS IN 2 WEEKS. fLORIO WILL BE ON SUICIDE WATCH AFTER THAT

  40. SuckitFlorio says: Nov 8, 2010 11:33 AM

    PossibleCabbage – and what if the team is on a bye next week? What if its a 5th string WR and his team de-activates him for the next 4 games?

  41. Bighairyman says: Nov 8, 2010 11:45 AM

    Collins should not be suspended…someone who has a reputation of doing these kind of hits should be. Besides, would the NFL suspend him for the Vikings game? That would just be wrong.

  42. redscare says: Nov 8, 2010 11:46 AM

    Why should prayer be exempt from the celebration rule? Going to the ground to pray is a completely arbitrary act. Do these people always pray the exact same way? Of course not. Most of these jokers, if they go to church, pray standing up multiple times in every service.
    There’s nothing sacred about the motion of going to the ground to pray. (Unless these guys are Muslim, and man, would I love to see that on the field.) It’s an arbitrary act, an imitative custom which is not any kind of official religious act which can’t be done in a different way. Just like any other celebration, it’s an act which can be done in various ways, and as such should be held to the same rule as any other form of celebration.
    But the NFL is too cowardly to be consistent, of course.

  43. somoney11 says: Nov 8, 2010 11:53 AM

    To : Ucantzstopuz
    Please are you serious? We beat ourselves. It should have been 20-0 into the first half. You guys couldn’t do anything all first half. Then Jacob Jones (Who?) pulls rabbits out of his hat. True the kickoff return fumble was a bad call and shouldn’t have been ours. Still your Coach shoudn’t have blown all his challenges early in the game. The constant holding on Hali was crazy and the only way you guys one was cause the refs. So chew on that.

  44. redscare says: Nov 8, 2010 11:53 AM

    If the Lions can end the season with Stafford and Hill healthy, they’ll be in great shape for the next draft. That is, they’ll be in a position where a lot of things are solid and they can afford to focus on the offensive line. With some likely good draft picks, this losing year could be a blessing, if it gives them the last major piece they need to be solid.
    The Vikes are headed for a transitional period. The Packers still haven’t gotten everything sorted out yet. The Bears are a mess and will be rebuilding next year. Tough season so far, but a great opportunity for the Lions is coming up soon.

  45. joe hvw says: Nov 8, 2010 12:25 PM

    So taking three steps, covering the ball, and putting your head down is still “while catching a pass?”
    When a player puts his head down and is an established runner, helmet hits are allowed. Nevermoind that both Mikell and Coleman lead with their shoulders.
    I love this site, but you guys really dig your heels in the sand once you start on a stance about some topic you can make a million posts about and stop looking at things objectively. Your fake modesty about your influence on the league is pathetic. Quit the aw shucks act and start being responsible and respectable.

  46. lawboy2000 says: Nov 8, 2010 12:32 PM

    Mr. Florio –
    Don’t forget your own words on Jerry Jones. I was surprised there was no satirical parenthetical note on that point.
    Collie wasn’t defenseless – he caught the ball, secured it, and ducked his head to protect himself. The call on the field was wrong and should have been overturned if Andy Reid had challenged.
    It is was good to hear Collie’s injuries were limited to a concussion and not something even more serious.
    Nick Collins should have been ejected and should be suspended. That was a dirty hit. Collins could have punished Williams by keeping his head up and running through him instead of leading with his helmet.

  47. RoadTrip3500 says: Nov 8, 2010 12:36 PM

    Re: item 8, and this is not just directed at Mike…
    All the proponents of this “both teams should get a touch in OT” rule are acting as if defense doesn’t exist after 60 minutes are up. You lose the toss and you want a chance to score first? Stop the other team. Play defense – force a punt, create a turnover, whatever it takes. The defensive players are earning a paycheck too – if they allow the other team to just waltz down the turf and kick a field goal, that’s not the fault of the game rules.
    Requiring both teams to have a possession in overtime is as dumb as saying both teams must have a 30-minute time of possession during regulation. By the same logic, the team with less TOP isn’t getting a “fair shake”, are they?

  48. ravenfan820 says: Nov 8, 2010 12:50 PM

    Philip Rivers may be a decent QB, but he is the biggest crybaby in the NFL….I cannot image anyone outside of San Diego pulling for him

  49. JSpicoli says: Nov 8, 2010 1:05 PM

    It is not Stafford’s fault he now has a bum shoulder. It was injured badly in his rookie year.
    Kind of a limiting factor having a QB with a bad shoulder.

  50. GeeBee says: Nov 8, 2010 1:12 PM

    Holmgren going to either Dallas or Minnesota would be too much of a mindf**k for me to handle as a Packer fan.
    He’s got scruples, so I’m not too worried about it, but the thoughts give me shivers.

  51. Foolorio says: Nov 8, 2010 1:21 PM

    Florio I think you need to re-read the rules on a “DEFENSELESS RECEIVER” before you start saying that the hit is illegal.
    Here is the “DEFENSELESS RECEIVER RUKE” straight from Mike Pereira “The defenseless receiver, it used to be that he was protected until he completed the catch. Now he’s protected even after he completes the catch and before he clearly has a chance to protect himself. So if he’s got two feet down, but has not really brought the ball in to a degree where he can anticipate the contact and protect himself, the rule states that the defender can’t launch, which means springing forward and leaving his feet and hit him in the head or neck area with his shoulder, forearm or helmet.”
    And the amendment that was put in a couple of weeks ago states;
    “where a receiver cannot be hit in the head or neck area by an opponent who launches himself and makes contact with his helmet, shoulder, or forearm) will now apply to every defenseless player”

  52. Foolorio says: Nov 8, 2010 1:22 PM

    So in the play in question we have to look at a couple of things:
    1. Did the player “Catch” the ball? – CHECK
    2. Did the player get 2 feet down? – CHECK (He gets 2 feet down and then takes 2 steps)
    3. Did the player bring the ball in and anticipate a hit coming? – CHECK (watch after the catch he secures the ball and lowers his shoulders)
    So by definition of the rules Austin Collie is not considered a “DEFENSELESS RECEIVER” in the eyes of the NFL.
    Now we have to look at the helmet to helmet collision.
    Was there a “Launch” involved – NO
    Was there intent to injure – NO
    This unfortunate hit was caused by 3 good football players playing hard.
    Mikell hits Collie seconds before Coleman was anticipating making the play. The Mikell hit accelerates Collies and his own momentum into Coleman. If the Mikell hit doesn’t happen Coleman hits Collie shoulder to shoulder.
    This was NOT an illegal hit and thank god that Collie will be alright.

  53. TouchdownRoddyWhite says: Nov 8, 2010 1:30 PM

    Hmmm… How to make overtime more fair/interesting:
    Make it do or die. The winner of the coin toss must score on the first drive. If they do, they win. If they don’t, they lose.
    Both teams get one possession. Period, and each one starts with a kickoff. So the winner of the coin toss gets first crack. If both teams score a field goal or both score a td, you use time of possession as a tie breaker and whoever scored faster wins. If team one scores a field goal and team two gets a td, team two wins, and vice versa. If team one doesn’t score, they kick off(regardless of field position) and team two has to score to win. If they don’t, it’s a tie. That way a tie truly means that two teams with even circumstances are an even match or just really suck.
    End the game WITH a coin toss. Call it in the air. Game over.
    Give each team 5 plays from their own 20. Whoever gets more yards wins.
    Eliminate regular season overtime all together and count ties as losses. Bet you’d see a ton more two point conversions in close contests.
    Point is, there’s a hundred ways to go about it, but the fact remains that if you find yourself in OT, you deserve to lose to a field goal for not finishing out the first 60 minutes strong. Saying that OT should be more fair is like saying if a team wins on a field goal kick while time expires, the losing team should get one last chance effort to bring home the win. It’s outrageous and it’s not what the fans want at all.

  54. somesome says: Nov 8, 2010 1:33 PM

    @Sam
    my guess you will be dissapointed with the power rankings then. First you forgot the Ravens and secondly the NFC teams are just catching up so why would any off them surpass the current AFC power houses? No NFC team has a better record than the AFC teams who just lost this weekend.

  55. Sam says: Nov 8, 2010 3:53 PM

    @somesome
    The Colts are 5-3, the Cheifs are 5-3, And the Pats are 6-2 as well as the Jets. The Ravens aren’t Division leaders, and their 5-3. The Falcons are 6-2 the Giants are 6-2 the Saints are 5-3 as well as the Packers. Im confused, i never said the AFC/NFC had better records, and i really dont think records matter in power rankings. Its more about “what have you done for me latley?” So, not sure what your getting at? Possibly a fans whose feathers got ruffled? I mean, I know I will be suprised when I see the rankings, because to me it seems to be more of a popularity contest than anything. We will just have to wait and see.

  56. walk says: Nov 8, 2010 5:04 PM

    6> I am already tired of this defensless reciever crap. Fine the qb for hanging his team mate out to dry as well as the defensive player that delievers the hit.

  57. bigbummer? says: Nov 8, 2010 7:54 PM

    Although its convient to your “thing” to ignore the word defenseless in the rule- it is still there. The rule does not say any ballcarrier . But I guess you need to fill space to get paid or something.

  58. Route36West says: Nov 9, 2010 2:50 PM

    Bull Collie wasnt defenseless. You know why? Because HE DEFENDED HIMSELF. He Ducked craddled the ball and braced for contact. He also wasnt catching the ball when he got hit he already had possession took 2 steps defended himself before contact with Mikell then he took another step and made helmet to helmet contact with Coleman as a ball carrier.
    That is why he wasnt fined bc nothing Coleman did was illegal. Collie wasnt defenseless and he was no long considered a receiver. He was a ball carrier. Which is obvious to everyone except you xoJazz and the ref who threw the flag.

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