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Steve Scarnecchia’s first offense was involvement with Patriots

Kansas City Chiefs v Denver Broncos Getty Images

When the NFL announced that the Broncos and head coach Josh McDaniels would be disciplined because former director of video operations Steve Scarnecchia had taped the 49ers’ walk-through last month, it referred to Scarnecchia as a repeat offender. But the NFL’s announcement didn’t explain what Scarnecchia’s prior offense was.

PFT has learned that Scarnecchia’s first offense was being part of the Patriots’ video operations — even though he left New England after the 2004 season and wasn’t part of the team during the infamous Spygate matter of 2007.

In fact, Scarnecchia was actually the Jets’ director of video operations at the time that the Patriots were caught videotaping the Jets’ signals.

Now Scarnecchia has been fired for cause, and it seems highly unlikely that he’ll ever work in the NFL again. He may need to update his Linkedin profile.

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56 Responses to “Steve Scarnecchia’s first offense was involvement with Patriots”
  1. myspaceyourface says: Nov 27, 2010 3:19 PM

    I wonder who took Scarnecchia’s place in N.E. It seems they are back to their old tricks.

  2. neverend1 says: Nov 27, 2010 3:19 PM

    Maybe the patriots weren’t inaccurate when they accused the jets of video taping them

  3. hairpie says: Nov 27, 2010 3:22 PM

    does anyone really think Scarnecchia taped with the Pats, stopped with the Jets and started back with the Broncos?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

  4. pondbridge says: Nov 27, 2010 3:23 PM

    Why the misleading headline if he wasn’t employed by the Patriots at the time of Spygate? Provocative headline draws views, to hell with the truth eh Florio?

  5. PFTiswhatitis says: Nov 27, 2010 3:24 PM

    So who believes the Jets were innocent during that time period?

    Kind of funny how all of the comments want to blame the Patriots, Josh McD etc. Read the facts people.

  6. latopia says: Nov 27, 2010 3:33 PM

    PFT has learned that Scarnecchia’s first offense was being part of the Patriots’ video operations…

    Yup.

    As this Globe article reports, this is hardly the first instance where Scarnecchia was implicated in video “spying.”

    According to [Sen. Arlen] Specter, [Matt] Walsh told him a former Patriots offensive player told Walsh that before a 2000 game against the Buccaneers, the player was called into a meeting with Belichick, then-offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, and team football research director Ernie Adams. At that meeting, according to Specter, Walsh said it was explained to the player how the team would utilize Tampa Bay signals it had filmed during a preseason game that year.

    Specter also said Walsh, who worked for the Patriots from 1997-2003 before being fired, told him he saw Steve Scarnecchia, son of Patriots offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia and the Jets’ current video director, filming signals for the Patriots.

  7. efangule says: Nov 27, 2010 3:46 PM

    Spygate was for 8 years PFT. Not 3. Do your homework.

  8. Rosenthals Speling Instrukter says: Nov 27, 2010 3:49 PM

    @ latopia

    Well if a politician said it it must be true.

    What an F’n moron.

    Please don’t be a charger fan. We aren’t a whiny fanbase and we don’t need people like you making others feel different.

  9. halftermguv says: Nov 27, 2010 3:54 PM

    As more and more luster fades from the “genius” of Bill Belichick and the Patriots organization.

  10. polegojim says: Nov 27, 2010 4:02 PM

    Actually – he’s the whistle blower.

  11. unbreakable02215 says: Nov 27, 2010 4:06 PM

    Can I ask a question here ? If you as a team don’t regularly change your offensive (or defensive) signals,
    don’t you deserve to have them used against you ?
    REGARDLESS OF HOW YOUR OPPOSITION OBTAINS THEM ?

  12. murraysons says: Nov 27, 2010 4:19 PM

    if this doesn’t prove that everyone does it, and the patriots are not alone, what does? this guy has been with two organizations since his time in new England. can we stop bashing the patriots now?

  13. andyprough says: Nov 27, 2010 4:43 PM

    This story leaves far more questions than answers. How could Scarnecchia be a repeat offender if he left the Patriots before they were sanctioned in 2007? Does this mean that the league knew about SpyGate as early as 2004 (or before), and had already quietly sanctioned people in the Patriots organization, and hoped that the whole thing would just quietly go away?

    And what could the possible penalties be for Roger Goodell if it turns out that he blatantly lied to Senator Arlen Specter? And what about the federal lawsuit that was thrown out of court in New Jersey last year regarding SpyGate – did the NFL lie to a federal judge regarding prior knowledge of SpyGate infractions?

    The possibilities – all of them very bad for Goodell – are endless…

  14. latopia says: Nov 27, 2010 4:45 PM

    May 2008 Senate statement by Specter reviewing testimony by Matt Walsh in re Patriots, Scarnecchia et al.

    (1) The Patriots engaged in extensive videotaping of opponents’ offensive and defensive signals starting on August 20, 2000 and extending to September 9, 2007, when they were publicly caught videotaping the Jets.

    The extent of the taping was not disclosed until the NFL was pressured to do so. Originally, Commissioner Goodell said the taping was limited to late in the 2006 season and early in the 2007 season. In his meeting with me on February 13, 2008, Goodell admitted the taping went back to 2000. Until my meeting with Matt Walsh on May 13, 2008, the only taping we knew about took place from 2000 until 2002 and during the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

    That left an obvious gap between 2003 and 2005. In response to my questions, Matt Walsh stated he had season tickets in 2003, 2004 and 2005 and saw Steve Scarnecchia, his successor, videotape games during those seasons including:

    The Patriots’ September 9, 2002 game against the Steelers.

    The Patriots’ November 16, 2003 game against the Cowboys.

    The Patriots’ September 25, 2005 game against the Steelers, which the Steelers resoundingly won 34-20.

    Walsh stated he observed Scarnecchia filming additional Patriots home games, though he could not recall the specific games.

    Walsh said he did not tell Goodell about the taping during 2003, 2004 and 2005 because he was not asked.

  15. rectumnearlykilledem says: Nov 27, 2010 4:45 PM

    Former Jet, up to his old dirty tricks. Typical NY shananigans.

  16. richm2256 says: Nov 27, 2010 4:51 PM

    Let’s see if we’ve got this right, Mr. Goodell:

    Steve Scarnecchia is considered to have had his first offense with New England, despite the fact that he left in 2004 and was gone THREE YEARS before “Spygate”, yet Josh McDaniel’s – who was New England’s Offensive Coordinator AT THE TIME “SPYGATE” OCCURRED – has NO “first offense”?????

    Does anyone smell a scapegoat here?

  17. daveydawg says: Nov 27, 2010 4:52 PM

    “does anyone really think Scarnecchia taped with the Pats, stopped with the Jets and started back with the Broncos?”

    Exactly. Spygate is all the rest of the league has to enjoy, since most of their teams all suck.

  18. latopia says: Nov 27, 2010 4:59 PM

    Providence Journal excerpt of Matt Walsh describing Buffalo Bill, complicity, the backlash of Spygate on Patriot video elves Matt Walsh, Steve Scarnecchia, Matt Estrella in Q&A with Andrea Kremer.

    Walsh suggests that Bill Belichick has not owned up to his responsibility in this affair, or admitted his true familiarity with Matt Walsh and his actions.

    MATT WALSH: “He was, he was always friendly, you know, when we talked. Um, cordial, he, him and his wife Debbie, bought us a Christmas gift in 2001.”

    ANDREA KREMER: “So how does that give with Bill Belichick saying, “I couldn’t pick Matt Walsh out of a lineup?” “

    MATT WALSH: “Um, it’s funny, the first time I heard that was when somebody in Hawaii brought the quote to me too. And my first hand answer to them was, well, I wonder if he can pick me out on one of the three team pictures we’re in together.”

    ANDREA KREMER: “Why do you think he would have said that?”

    MATT WALSH: “I don’t know, if I was just that forgettable and he can’t remember me, or if he was just trying to distance himself from this whole situation as best as he could.”

    ANDREA KREMER: “What do you think?”

    MATT WALSH: “I think Bill’s got a pretty good memory.”

    ANDREA KREMER: “Bill also has a great knowledge of the game, so when, when Bill Belichick says he misinterpreted the rules of what can be shot during a game, who much do you believe him?”

    MATT WALSH: “When I was doing it, I understood what we were doing to be wrong. We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. Just saying that the rules were misinterpreted isn’t enough of a, an apology or a reasoning for what was done. I mean, we live, you know, in a very forgiving nation, you know. People, if you come out and you admit a mistake you made or something you did that you shouldn’t have done, people are usually very forgiving of that, accepting. When people try to get around answering it, or giving an explanation, or you know, admitting culpability, that’s usually when people start to question your motives.”

    MATT WALSH: “Coach Belichick’s explanation for having misinterpreted the rules. To me, that really didn’t sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through, uh, to hide what we were doing.”

    According to Goodell, Walsh at one point during their meeting on Tuesday referred to Belichick as “the man behind the curtain,” which leads one to believe he may not have had much interaction with the Pats’ coach. – smy

    Walsh discusses how his recent public ordeal has affected him.

    ANDREA KREMER: “What’s the thing that really bothers you the most about this whole situation, I mean granted, you did what you…were instructed to do, but what bothers you the most when you reflect back on it, years later?”

    MATT WALSH: “Really just a lot of…what myself— I can’t speak for them but I have to imagine Steve Scarnecchia and Matt Estrella, you know, have had to go through, and experience, um, simply for being young kids and doing what we were told to do. Um, all the attention this has gotten and how…you know, the Patriots through the media have tried to smear my character. And I hadn’t even come out with any definitive information against them. I never said that we videotaped the Rams’ walk-through, I never came out, I was very, you know, as non-committal as I could in any of the answers I gave, yet they still went to great lengths to try to discredit me. You know, and still to this day, you know, the commissioner says I’ve just presented information that he already knew? Which would mean information before I even talked in the first place? So, well, why put me through all this. If I didn’t do anything to them. And the same thing with Matt Estrella and Steve Scarnecchia. I mean you know, my life, my friend’s life, my family lives, have been turned upside down, supposedly for nothing new.”

  19. jimmy1smith says: Nov 27, 2010 5:26 PM

    Considering the extent of the Patriot’s taping, why don’t they just give the Lombardi trophies bak to the NFL and say they were sorry?

    Boob Kraft and Bill Bellicheat must be so proud.

  20. ken1313 says: Nov 27, 2010 6:02 PM

    #
    myspaceyourface says: Nov 27, 2010 3:19 PM

    I wonder who took Scarnecchia’s place in N.E. It seems they are back to their old tricks.
    ————————————————————

    Really? Tell us what this has to do with the Patriots there pinhead.

    This is the Denver Broncos……has nothing to do with the Patriots and whatever team of yours that you are upset about them beating

  21. 8man says: Nov 27, 2010 6:20 PM

    halftermguv says:
    Nov 27, 2010 3:54 PM
    As more and more luster fades from the “genius” of Bill Belichick and the Patriots organization.
    ———————————————
    Dude, I don’t think I’d want to be called “half” of anything. But don’t worry. They are getting ready to put it back on….

    murraysons says:
    Nov 27, 2010 4:19 PM
    if this doesn’t prove that everyone does it, and the patriots are not alone, what does?
    ———————————————-
    That was the reason Goodell basically flushed everything, because BB said, “Fine. I’ll take the punishment. But if it comes up again, I’m telling everything I know about “cheating” in this league and naming names.

    Understand this; Goodell didn’t let BB off. It was the other way around.

  22. bcgreg says: Nov 27, 2010 8:19 PM

    I know that this is a Broncos story, but of course, it has morphed into a Patriots story. For all haters, Google “Jimmy Johnson Spygate”. You should see an entry from the Boston Herald, which printed a TRANSCRIPT of an interview that Johnson did with WFAN in NY. It is ONLY a transcript. There is no article or opinion piece about it.

    In the interview, Johnson explains how he did the same thing as Belichick while HC of the Cowboys winning 2 SBs in the process. He tells how he learned the practice from a longtime scout on the Chiefs. Schottenheimer was the HC at the time. On Marty’s staff was Bill Cowher, who has stated that the tapes did not help the Pats win, Herm Edwards, who is waving to the camera on one tape, and Tony Dungy, who says he never got anything off those tapes and never did it as a HC.

    However, this longtime scout followed Dungy to TB when Dungy became HC there. I’m sure he stopped this practice as soon as he went to work in TB. Yeah, right.

    As for Walsh, he’s right. Belichick is a smart man. The rule regarding videotaping says that you cannot have a video camera on the “field”. The LEAGUE defines the field as “sideline to sideline, endline to endline” (ie the PLAYING field). Did Belichick have a camera on the field as defined by the league? He did not.

    Also, in the memo that Ray Anderson, an attorney for the league, sent out reminding teams about videotaping policy, he changed the word “field” to the word “sideline”, thereby changing the rule. Only the OWNERS can change the rules. Any competent lawyer would have understood this. Belichick and ALL of the coaches SHOULD have ignored this memo because it was a memo for a rule that did not exist.

    This is and always has been a non-story.

  23. unbreakable02215 says: Nov 27, 2010 9:00 PM

    nice work bcgreg

  24. tiffpats4eva says: Nov 27, 2010 9:58 PM

    @ myspaceyourface

    Where’s your proof?

  25. tiffpats4eva says: Nov 27, 2010 10:00 PM

    Great post, bcgreg.

  26. patriotinvasion says: Nov 28, 2010 12:30 AM

    Haha…leave it to the haters to blame the Patriots for the Broncos doing this. Love it. I love how everyone assumes that somehow a camera can make tackles, throw 45 yard passes on a line, make juke moves, catch in the cold, tip balls for interceptions, force fumbles…It’s amazing how one camera can just play the entire game of football for you.

    All I know is even the GOD of the Haters Matty Walsh claimed the Patriots did NOT tape any Rams walkthrough…the guy who tried to bring the Pats down didn’t even say that was true and he was there that day…

    Walkthroughs are different than siganls which change every week and are in plain view to 70,000 people in the stadium. Glad my Pats never did what the Broncos did…HAHA

  27. patriotinvasion says: Nov 28, 2010 12:36 AM

    I also love how when any Patriots fan makes a good argument for why spygate was and is a non-story…such as how Jimmy Johnson admitted he taped signals when the Cowboys won 2 Super Bowls, there is absolutely ZERO response or acknowledgment of the point…hilarious…the Haters are so blinded by their own team’s sucktitude that they can’t see the truth…

    FOOTBALL PLAYERS WIN FOOTBALL GAMES ON SUNDAYS!!! Not cameras and certainly not signals that every one in the stadium can see…

    Again…Pats record in the 4 years prior to “spygate” 57-16…Pats record in the 4 years since…48-15…LOLOLOL…Pretty similar to me…with a REBUILDING TEAM!!!!

  28. goldsteel says: Nov 28, 2010 2:09 AM

    bcgreg says:
    Nov 27, 2010 8:19 PM

    This is and always has been a non-story.

    A non-story? Then why are people being fined and fired over a non-story? The rule of no filming on the field seems short sided considering the technology today. Having practices filmed from any location by one team’s opposition suggests impropriety. As though there isn’t enough film on all the teams as it is?

  29. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 2:42 AM

    It’s hysterical how ignorant, biased and pathetic people STILL are on this tired subject.

    Yeah, the “luster” is coming off the Patriots and Belichick because of this. Let’s completely ignore that this guy was employed by TWO organizations AFTER “spygate”. Let’s ignore the fact that this guy worked for the very team that instigated the whole “spygate” allegations at the time they made the accustations.

    Here is a little tidbit for all the blind, ignorant bozo’s out there who think that Belichick somehow invented “cheating” in the NFL:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/07/06/cheating.nfl/

    “The “stealing” of signs — both on offense and defense — is the area that’s most often cited as fertile ground for cheating. The most common practice is for a team to videotape an opponent’s signal-givers on the sideline, and later marry up those indications to the game tape in order to identify tendencies or patterns.”

    “That type of sign-stealing goes on a ton in the league,” said one NFL source who was both a former coach and player in the league.”

    Funny, the quotes above are from the linked article that appeared on SI.com some 4 months BEFORE “spygate”. So wait, there was an article in SI talking about how taping signals was commonplace and widespread in the NFL some 4 months before Belichick became the only coach to be accused of and punished for it? Interesting.

    Let’s ignore all of the coaches and players that have come out since saying it is both commonplace and doesn’t have much affect on the game. Let’s also ignore Hall of Fame coaches like Jimmy Johnson who publicly admitted to “learning” how to steal opposing signals in the early 80′s with the KC Chiefs. I don’t hear much crying about the success of the 90′s Cowboys? Why is that?

    Let’s ignore the fact that the Patriots completed the first perfect 16-0 season in the history of the NFL and were within less than 2 minutes of a perfect 19-0 season, AFTER, I repeat AFTER they supposedly lost their huge “spying” advantage.

    Of course, none of the “haters” EVER have a response to ANY of these facts. And nobody will now.

    These idiots want us to believe that this guy taped for the Pats, quit with the Jets, then taped again for the Broncos within the span of a few years, just to fit in with their pathetic anti Pats/Belichick agenda. Sad.

    Funny, this guy has worked for two organizations since the Patriots, yet it is still all about them.

    I guess when you are the best organization in Professional Football, everyone will try to take you down, no matter what.

  30. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 2:47 AM

    And bcgreg, I didn’t realize but I was echoing your point about Johnson and his publicly admitting he learned the “art” of “stealing opposing signals” in his time with the Chiefs in the early 80′s.

    In the 3 years that I have brought up these points on various blogs and chatrooms has ANYONE responded to those facts and statements.

  31. db105 says: Nov 28, 2010 3:03 AM

    Filming signals is inconsequential. Still can’t see how a team can benefit from filming opponents signals unless they play them again. The simple minds in here are amazing! And entertaining too.

  32. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 4:39 AM

    Nice try, bcgreg. However, your arguments still have quite a few problems. First, NFL doesn’t define “field” to be limited to “playing field”. Furthermore, even if you want to argue memo doesn’t count and only the original rule applies, cheatriots still violate the original rule.

    In the NFL’s operations manual, it states that “no
    video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in
    the locker room during the game.” Furthermore, all
    video shooting locations for coaching purposes “must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.” You may argue “field” is only limited to “playing field”, but did cheatriots video-tape opponents’ signals in a place “enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead”? Try argue that.

    In addition to operations manual, cheatriots also violate league’s Constitution & Bylaws, which reads: “Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

    Another fact you are wrong is that, when Belicheat said he misunderstood the rule, he said he thought it’s ok to video-tape opponents’ signals as long as it is not used in the same game. He never mentioned the definition of “field” as what he misunderstood.

  33. hooterdawg says: Nov 28, 2010 6:58 AM

    Only moronic cheatriot fans would argue that the league thinks a camera could be located in the field of play. A really stupid argument. The Denver controversy reminds the rest of the NFL fans that Patsie fans never learned anything from Spygate. It’s still the same old excuses, same old twisted reasoning. I’m glad this all came up again, cos it has renewed a curse on the Patriots all over again.

  34. efangule says: Nov 28, 2010 7:34 AM

    murraysons says:
    Nov 27, 2010 4:19 PM
    if this doesn’t prove that everyone does it, and the patriots are not alone, what does? this guy has been with two organizations since his time in new England. can we stop bashing the patriots now?


    Actually it proves even more that the Patriots are the ones who perfected it and got a lot more out of it than everybody thinks.

    and to BC Greg:
    You patriots fan continue to get this information wrong:
    per Boston.com. the website for the Boston Globe. a newspaper in the Pats own town.:
    THE RULE THEY BROKE
    From the NFL’s Constitution & Bylaws (article 9): “Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

    Nowhere in there does it say “playing field”. get your facts straight.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/spygate/

    There’s the link so you can read it for yourself and to help you come to grips with the fact that your team cheated for 8 years.

    Sure, other teams may have tried it and got nothing out of it, does that mean that someone couldn’t? If everybody took the “someone else tried it and didn’t get anything, so i’m not going to” attitude that you Patriots Fans LOVE to bring up, then there would be no advancement in anything ever.

    Stop being an apologizer and just come to grips with the fact that your team cheated to win 3 superbowl.

  35. japdouds says: Nov 28, 2010 7:55 AM

    Only in the NFL can you be fined $75k for a tackle and $50k for a second offense of spying on your opponents…

  36. majmalphunktion says: Nov 28, 2010 9:41 AM

    :::dusts it off again:::

    This will be fruitless but, here it goes.

    In a 2006 playoff game, Patriots’ security prevented a Jets camera crew from filming. The crew was there in addition to the cameramen already recording game film from end zone and sideline angles. New England security didn’t confiscate the footage and turn it over to the NFL.(last time that happens!)
    At a press conference, Mangini said the extra camera was there because he wanted game footage from both end zones.(Cheater!!)

    The next meeting (2007), Mangini sells out the Pats.

    Cheaters of the Past:
    Tom Landry—a Giants assistant —tuned into the Browns’ radio frequency, allowing him to call the right defensive plays. Loss of a first round draft pick? 500k fine? Nope, they banned QB Radio helmets. Tom Landry CHEATS? No, this became a ‘Ha Ha put one up on the Browns’ stories.

    Jimmy Johnson said teams could tape signals from the press box, but sometimes the press box was on the wrong side of the field. In that case, the cameraman filmed from the sidelines.
    No worries it is the Cowboys, so It’s cool. Tx football is far better place for a Dynasty than those grumpy New Englanders..what do they know about football up there?

    The Infamous memo misquotes the rules “Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”

    There is actually nothing in the rule book against stealing signals. Why? Because every staff has done it since the dawn of time. It is part of the game. Halas was known for subterfuge that bordered on criminal–or so the stories go.

    The rule states this:”No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.”
    Yep guilty..but then the punishment? If the team does better –supposedly without ‘cheating’ it gets fined more?
    If the Pats made the playoffs, they lost a first round pick. If they didn’t, they lost second and third rounders. Interestingly, Goodell based his punishment on how well the team did without the camera. The better they did without it, the worse the punishment got.

    So why the issue? Simple really. Parity. It is not pretty but the league prides itself that worst can go to first, that .500 is what half the teams should be. Watch, some other team is going to go on a decade tear, and remember this, when some ‘scandal’ puts a dent in their armor.

  37. pallmalls says: Nov 28, 2010 9:48 AM

    It’s a good thing that the opposing team’s signals aren’t out there for everyone to see! The hypocricy on here is amazing. The fact of the matter is that if Bill Belichick were available tomorrow, there are 31 teams in the NFL that would fire their current coach and hire him, and all of the Belicheat, Cheatriots and other whining posters out there would run to the store and buy a Belichick hoodie for their team. See ya in Dallas in February haters!

  38. murph3924 says: Nov 28, 2010 10:14 AM

    Most of you need a clue. show any current evidence of cheating if not stop being the idiots you are.

  39. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 1:25 PM

    First off, anyone that uses the tired, childish monikers of “cheatriots” and “belicheat” really makes themselves look foolish and discredits any valid point you might make.

    hooterdawg says: “I’m glad this all came up again, cos it has renewed a curse on the Patriots all over again.”

    How the flock does that make any sense, other than to someone blinded by jealousy and hatred? This guy worked for TWO different NFL teams, one being the very team that accused the Patriots of “spying”, and it “renews a curse on the Pats”? That is beyond idiots logic.

    efangule says: “Actually it proves even more that the Patriots are the ones who perfected it and got a lot more out of it than everybody thinks.”

    Haha it does? How is that? Because you need an excuse for the Patriots success? If the Patriots “perfected” it, wouldn’t the Broncos be better than 11-15 under McDaniel???? Isn’t this the magic elixer and the reason the Pats have won, even though they had the best regular season in history AFTER “spygate”?

    “Stop being an apologizer and just come to grips with the fact that your team cheated to win 3 superbowl.”

    And this is again COMPLETELY IGNORING the FACT that numerous players and coaches have PUBLICLY CONFIRMED that the “cheating” the Patriots were punished for is “very common” and has been done for decades? But we STILL have to make the utterly stupid statements like they “cheated” to win 3 Superbowls? It is mind numbing.

    Can someone PLEASE explain to me how over the course of a 3 hour game, a team can do the following:

    -film the other teams signals
    -decipher the number of signals, the key signal, the dummy signals.
    -figure out which of the minimum of two signal callers is the real caller and which is the dummy.
    -match up these signals with the opposing playbook for hundreds of plays.
    -convey this information to the coaching staff
    -convey this information to the players.

    All in the course of about 45 min to an hour? Really? You clowns seriously think this is practical and possible?

    How about the FACT that teams change their signals routinely throughout the year, sometimes on a week to week basis?

    As I predicted, NOBODY seemed to want to address the FACTS that I posted above from the article BEFORE “spygate” where it says the following: “The “stealing” of signs — both on offense and defense — is the area that’s most often cited as fertile ground for cheating. The most common practice is for a team to videotape an opponent’s signal-givers on the sideline, and later marry up those indications to the game tape in order to identify tendencies or patterns.”

    “That type of sign-stealing goes on a ton in the league,” said one NFL source who was both a former coach and player in the league.”

    Yup, even though it was confirmed to “happen a ton” and is the “most common”, it was the Patriots and Patriots only that benefitted from it to the tune of being the best franchise in football for most of the decade.

    The simple mindedness is really hysterical and pathetic all at the same time.

  40. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 1:50 PM

    I’d address the article BEFORE “spygate” you listed. It’s simple, first, give the evidence to NFL. This is a world that needs evidence, not just he says, you say, and I say. Second, no matter what others did, it doesn’t change the fact patriots broke the rule and are cheaters. Do you see murders say it’s ok they kill people because others also kill people? Even some others may break the same rule (give evidence to NFL first), it doesn’t make what cheatriots did right. Patriots still cheat.

  41. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 2:03 PM

    It’s cute that you continue to use “cheatriots”, as if it gives any more validity to your statements. In fact, it just does the opposite. Makes you appear to be bitter, jealous, and biased.

    Second, isn’t an admission of guilt about as good as “evidence” as you can get?

    This isn’t saying that the Patriots didn’t violate a rule. They did and were rightfully and harshly punished.

    The point is people pathetically attempting to discredit the Patriots success as solely based on their “cheating” and ignoring that this practice is widespread, as are numerous other types of “cheating”, and has been for decades. The fact is that you people are trying to say that the Patriots “cheating” is the sole reason for their success, which is completely absurd.

    Your analogy to a “murderer” is completely idiotic, irrelevant and doesn’t even warrant a response. That just shows you have no grasp of the situation at hand and are grasping for an argument.

    Keep up the “cheater cheater” whining and broad, general, unspecific biased statements.

  42. murph3924 says: Nov 28, 2010 2:23 PM

    what the pats did was wrong but to say they still cheat without evidence is just plain wrong. Give evidence they cheat now or shut up

  43. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 2:48 PM

    No, a news paper article is not an admission of guilt. Learn the fact first. Give the evidence to NFL first and have NFL penalize them, otherwise, it is still in the he-says-you-say-I-say phase. You are free to play this game, but it means nothing.

    Cheatriots broke the rules and are cheaters, it is as simple as it. You can continue trying to prove others cheat (again give the evidence to NFL first), but it doesn’t change the fact patriots are cheaters.

    Oh, I can play your game too:

    Your pursue of “others doing the same” is completely idiotic, irrelevant and doesn’t even warrant a response. That just shows you have no grasp of the situation at hand and are grasping for an argument.

  44. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 3:05 PM

    “No, a news paper article is not an admission of guilt. Learn the fact first. Give the evidence to NFL first and have NFL penalize them, otherwise, it is still in the he-says-you-say-I-say phase. You are free to play this game, but it means nothing”

    OK, apparently I need to spoonfeed it to you. For the 4th time in this thread, Jimmy Johnson publicly admitted that he taught about videotaping some 25 years ago by the KC Chiefs organization. He publicly admitted that he practiced this with the Cowboys, but didn’t feel that it helped much. So I guess he is a “cheater” as well and we should dismiss the Cowboys success of the 90′s, correct?

    What “game” am I playing exactly? Bringing up numerous examples of video taping and other forms of “cheating” over and over and over? How is it a “game” to bring up an article that was written before “spygate” that goes into detail in the explanation of how the practice of video taping is both common and wide spread?

    I realize that you NEED to dismiss this, because it completely invalidates your “cheater cheater” stance. But the facts are the facts.

    “Cheatriots broke the rules and are cheaters, it is as simple as it. You can continue trying to prove others cheat (again give the evidence to NFL first), but it doesn’t change the fact patriots are cheaters”

    Trying to prove? I don’t have to “try to prove” anything. It is a undeniable and documented FACT.

    Sure, you can say the Patriots are “cheaters” for violating a rule and trying to gain a competitive advantage. I guess you could say that every team in the NFL that has violated a rule in trying to gain a competitive advantage are “cheaters” as well.

    “Oh, I can play your game too:

    Your pursue of “others doing the same” is completely idiotic, irrelevant and doesn’t even warrant a response. That just shows you have no grasp of the situation at hand and are grasping for an argument.”

    Hahaha “game”? You compared the video taping of an opposing signal caller to a friggin’ murderer. Nice try. But you are really reaching now. You will have to bring more than that.

    Again, it is a UNDENIABLE FACT that video taping of opposing signal callers, and the attempt to steal the signals of the other teams, is widespread and has been going on for years across the NFL.

    Keep denying the obvious.

  45. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 3:10 PM

    How about the Broncos of the mid 90′s hh5591? I assume you also consider them “cheaters” because of their actions in winning 2 Superbowls?

  46. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 3:46 PM

    It’s funny when you say it’s UNDENIABLE FACT when the UNDENIABLE FACT is that cheatriots are the only team got penalized by NFL.

    Again, no matter what other team do, it doesn’t change the fact cheatriots are cheaters. This is a UNDENIABLE FACT.

  47. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 4:17 PM

    Are you going to hold your breath until you turn blue, jumping up and down like a child with your fingers in your ears like an immature little child screaming “cheaters cheaters cheaters” all day hh5591?

    You obviously are either unwilling or incapable of formulating an intelligent argument, nor are you willing to answer some very straightforward questions.

    It is obvious that you are just another bitter, biased fan who’s team has most likely gotten whipped by the Patriots over the last 10 years and feel the need to discredit their success.

    It’s ok. Your act is nothing new. It’s actually boring and tired.

    By the way, the Broncos were just punished for filming the 49ers. Woops, there goes your “argument”.

  48. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 4:31 PM

    “You should know that cheating runs rampant in the NFL and it is not just the Patriots that are cheating. Yes, they got caught because they made their cheating too obvious. But make no mistake about it, it is a fact that all NFL teams cheat to some extent.”

    Martin Chase – Former NFL Player of 5 different teams.

    “But, let’s not be blind about this situation. Taping practice or using cameras during the game to see signals sent in from the sideline (which almost every player has seen in their careers) are more than “occasional” situations in the NFL. And it doesn’t stop there.”

    Matt Bowen – 7 year NFL Veteran of 5 teams.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20101127_cheating_in_the_nfl_goes_beyond_the_camera_7129

    Yup, the Patriots are “cheaters”. I guess according to the people that know what they are talking about, every team in the NFL can be labeled as a “cheater” as well.

    The Patriots violated a rule and were severely and rightfully punished. End of story.

  49. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 6:56 PM

    You really try hard to prove other teams also cheat. But what you have is just accusation. Give the evidence to NFL for investigation and have NFL hand out penalty to ALL other NFL teams and then we can talk.

    The best part is, it doesn’t matter what other team do, it can’t change the fact cheatriots are cheaters. This is an UNDENIABLE FACT. You never and can’t deny this fact.

  50. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 10:01 PM

    I don’t have to “prove” that other teams “cheat”. The players and coaches ADMIT to this, something you don’t have the sack to admit. It is common knowledge to any rational fan with half a brain in his or her head. Heck, I gave you two former players and a Hall of Fame Head Coach who are quoted to admitting it is commonplace.

    “Give the evidence to NFL for investigation”

    Haha so you are really telling me that the only way to “prove” that all teams cheat in one form or another is for me to “submit evidence to the NFL”? Are you seriously this dense or just in complete denial because you cannot or will not deal with the facts that I have presented?

    “and have NFL hand out penalty to ALL other NFL teams and then we can talk.”

    Oh I got it. Unless every team gets penalized for “cheating” in one form or another, then it means that everyone except the Patriots and Broncos do not “cheat”.

    Funny how you changed your tune from “only the Patriots got caught” to “not everyone has gotten caught”, so it doesn’t count when you failed to realize THIS ARTICLE was about the Broncos taping. Good to see your “argument” morphing as I prove you wrong.

    It is good to see you do not have the stones to answer the simple, straightforward questions that I have posed and instead, resort to blocking your ears and chanting “cheat cheat never beat” like a 6 year old that isn’t getting his way.

    It’s ok. I know that deep down you know the truth, and instead are just too immature, biased and/or downright unintelligent to have a rational conversation on the subject based on the undeniable facts that I presented.

    Run along and resume throwing darts at Belichick’s picture. It is more fitting for you.

  51. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 10:05 PM

    The Patriots broke a rule and were rightfully and harshly punished. Yup, the Patriots are “cheaters” if it makes you sleep at night, just as you could label EVERY team in the NFL as “cheaters”.

    Who ever denied this? Is this REALLY all you got? This is what your entire argument has come down to?

    Oh yeah wait, it is.

  52. majmalphunktion says: Nov 28, 2010 10:16 PM

    OK as plainly as possible.

    I stare at your Coaches with a clipboard and binoculars and watch your hand signals , then the play. I write it down. I just stole a signal, and it is all legal. I can then use that information against you and there is NO NFL RULE saying I can’t.

    OR As Miami admitted they did, listen to a TV broadcast of a QB cadence and figure out what the snap count is. Recorded, and legal.

    OR How about the Jets holding illegal practices with coaches this year in CA? Was that giving them a competitive edge this year? Fine? Why not? Oh yeah, they are this year’s love affair with the dumb HBO TV show.

    I place a camera on the sideline and it is cheating.
    I can record the same thing from the coaches booth if I wanted to, and that is not cheating.

    Explain? At best it is like a parking ticket, not some great conspiracy of why the Pats won games.
    Since those times for example, the Pats still hand the Steelers their asses..why? Not because of signals, because they are predictable, and run the same damn defense week in and out. They have for years. Go look up some clips of the ‘Belistrator’ and you will see what kind of film study he does.
    The only reason Spygate was a big deal…the ONLY one is the Pats kicked everyone’s asses for 3 out of 6 years. Funny how the fine backfired though, and the Pats go on a 17 game tear. If they won that Superbowl the whole argument is invalidated…but they didn’t and the haters forget the other 17 games that year and hold that loss as ‘proof’. Thinner than 9/11 conspiracies there chief.
    Really it was about economics, not competitiveness.
    The NFL wants every year to be like this one. They do not want undefeated or dominant teams, it is bad for the smaller markets..we saw at the beginning of this year blackouts in some of those..and they went away because it seemed like all the horses were in the race not just NE,PIT,IND and the other usuals.
    The NFL had to take down their own Jonathan E.(look it up) named Bill Belichick. He does his own thing, lives and breathes football like a religion, does not care about unions, money making or wearing the right NFL licensed clothing. He just wants to win games. Period. What to do with this guy? He does not smile for cameras or give interviews with idiotic questions…I got it…We vilify him.In this media frenzy climate that we live in, and the press finally had a chink in the Belichick armor, they jumped on it like wolves and made it far more than it was…and as usual, with the exception of a few, took the word of mouth over inconvenient facts. Anyone that has spent the time to dig into the issue deeper…unlike say, ESPN, should be disgusted with the way the whole deal was dealt with.
    Then he took his punishment like a man, and went on to an undefeated season. The biggest double middle finger to Godell and the league there could be. Then to top it all off, makes a couple of trades and recoops the lost pick. You idiots hate this guy why?

  53. hh5591 says: Nov 28, 2010 10:20 PM

    BTW, which question did you refer to? the one about “Broncos of the mid 90′s”?

    Yes, Broncos were cheaters. And as I told you many times, it doesn’t change the fact Cheatriots are cheaters.

  54. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 28, 2010 11:26 PM

    hh5591, the point that you are failing to grasp or the one that you do not have the balls to admit is that you are pathetically attempting to portray the Patriots as unique in the NFL. You have denied and tried to dismiss the numerous factual statements I and others have provided as “accusations” (not really sure how someone admitting something would be classified as an “accusation”, but no matter. I chalk that up the the simple mind of a blind “hater”) and tell me to “submit it to the NFL” (that’s a good one).

    If you feel the need to label the Patriots as “cheaters” for their actions, as I said that is fine. Just as long as you ALSO admit that you can label just about every team in NFL history as “cheaters” for various actions.

    Of course you won’t, because that will lessen the severity of the act of “cheating” that the Patriots committed, thereby nullifying your already very weak argument.

    You NEED the Patriots “cheating” to justify them being so good, because you don’t have the stones to just admit that maybe they were just pretty effin good. Of course you won’t.

  55. hh5591 says: Nov 29, 2010 12:39 AM

    Again, you are wrong. I nevertry to portray Cheatriots as unique in the NFL. Didn’t you just see I said Broncos also cheated when they were over cap room in 90′s.

    Instead it looks to me that you can’t grasp the simple fact: It doesn’t matter what other teams do, it doesn’t change the fact Cheatriots are cheaters.

  56. bostongeorge6297 says: Nov 29, 2010 1:43 AM

    “Instead it looks to me that you can’t grasp the simple fact: It doesn’t matter what other teams do, it doesn’t change the fact Cheatriots are cheaters.”

    Apparently your reading comprehension is sorely lacking as I never disputed your (dumb) criteria for a “cheating” team. But with that said, sure the Patriots are “cheaters” in that context. The exact same thing can then be said for each and EVERY team in the NFL and every team in the history of the NFL who has ever broken a rule to gain a competitive advantage.

    Congratulations Capt. Obvious. I hope you sleep better tonight.

    Basically what happened here is that you had the intentions of proving that the Patriots were a bunch of “cheaters” who’s sole reason for success was due to their “cheating”. When you were so easily dismissed over and over and shown that the Patriots are no bigger “cheaters” than any other team in the NFL over the history of the league, you then began to pout and change your tune to “it doesn’t matter, they are cheaters so there”.

    As a side note, it is actually kind of embarrassing trying to argue with and try to educate someone that actually willingly would constantly use something as juvenile, unoriginal and flat out lame as “cheatriots”.

    I am still waiting for you to parrot other kiddy names for all the other “cheating” teams in the NFL.

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