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Terrell Suggs: Drew Brees is better than Peyton Manning, Tom Brady

drewbrees

Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs is preparing for Sunday’s game against Saints quarterback Drew Brees, an NFC quarterback Suggs doesn’t see often. But Suggs says he’s seen enough to know that Brees is even better than a couple of AFC quarterbacks he does see often, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

Well, in my eyes he’s better,” Suggs said, per Jamison Hensley of the Baltimore Sun. “Maybe it could be my personal vendetta against the other guys, but he’s definitely one of the premier quarterbacks in this league, and he’s got the numbers to prove it. And not only that, he’s got the hardware to prove it.”

Suggs mentions the “personal vendetta,” and he has complained in the past that the NFL goes too far to protect Brady and Manning. So it’s not surprising that he doesn’t want to list Brady and Manning as the top two quarterbacks in the league. However, if Suggs is basing his analysis on either “numbers” or “hardware,” it’s tough to see how Brees comes out on top.

We’ll be curious to see whether PFT Planet agrees with Suggs that Brees is better than Brady or Manning. We’re sure you’ll let us know.

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121 Responses to “Terrell Suggs: Drew Brees is better than Peyton Manning, Tom Brady”
  1. camprobot says: Dec 16, 2010 9:54 AM

    lol.. because Peyton Manning and Tom Brady don’t have the hardware? Wtf are these guys smoking?

  2. xxwhodatxx says: Dec 16, 2010 9:55 AM

    All three are great QB’s. You could put any of them in the #1 spot on any given week. Of course I’d take Brees but I’m biased

  3. siantsarebest says: Dec 16, 2010 9:55 AM

    it should say hal of fame quarterback drew brees is better then tom brady and payton manning. sugs watch the scorebord this weekend and watch it get lit up by the siants. who dat wedat and we are coming like a train and will run the nfl over.

  4. PFTiswhatitis says: Dec 16, 2010 9:56 AM

    Not even close. Brady and Manning are far ahead of anything Brees has done yet. If he continues to do his thing for another bunch of years and gets another ring or two then maybe. But until then, Suggs is still a load of whining hot air.

  5. jrp1252 says: Dec 16, 2010 9:56 AM

    “Drew Brees has now thrown an interception in nine straight games, and his season total of 18 ties a career high.” SI.COM

    Suggs is an idiot.

  6. unbreakable02215 says: Dec 16, 2010 9:58 AM

    MadBacker Jr. Like I been sayinTerrell, the Bart
    Scott impression sucks. Get your own shtick.

    Nice job in the 4th Qtr the other night too.

  7. bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 10:00 AM

    All three are excellent quarterbacks.

    Brady and Manning are 100% locks for the Hall of Fame.

    Brees? A lock for the hall of fame?

    He’s been a Superbowl MVP, but never a league MVP.

    From a hardware point of view, he’s like Phil Simms. Not a Hall of Famer.

    From a statistical point of view, he’s like Ben Roethlisberger. Good, but not a Hall of Famer.

    He’s got more work to do before he can be considered in a class with Brady and Manning.

  8. Ralphie says: Dec 16, 2010 10:01 AM

    “Maybe it could be my personal vendetta against the other guys…”

    Yes, it is your personal vendetta Toofus.

  9. mproyiii says: Dec 16, 2010 10:01 AM

    here’s how I see it:

    1. Brady
    2. Brees
    3. Manning

    No one seems to talk about this, but Brees has MORE PASSING YARDS in the past five years than any quarterback in NFL history over five years, EVER. He and Manning have one ring a piece, and since Brees recently beat him for it, I’ll give him the 2 spot.

  10. all4patriots says: Dec 16, 2010 10:01 AM

    “Maybe it could be my personal vendetta against the other guys”

    “BINGO, we have BINGO!”

    this year:

    Brady

    Rivers
    Vick
    Ryan

    Brees
    Cassel
    Rogers
    Rothlissberger
    Flacco
    Freeman

    Manning
    Cutler
    Garrard
    Schaub

  11. zimaman says: Dec 16, 2010 10:01 AM

    well it’s pretty plain to see that Suggs likes to flap his gums quite a bit. you have to read between the lines people. it’s pretty clear to me with the regularity that he shoots his mouth off that he is trying really hard to get himself moved north to another team called the JETS. man, this guy would be perfect for the JETS. big mouth, playing for a big mouth coach. when they both look in the mirror they see a fantasy not reality. its a match made in heaven.

    oh yeah..and neither one of them has won anything….like i said!

  12. pervyharvin says: Dec 16, 2010 10:05 AM

    Don’t like any of them but Brady is the best,end of discussion.

  13. 8man says: Dec 16, 2010 10:06 AM

    @siantsarebest:

    I understand your passion. Your spelling on the other hand……

    Well given a choice, I’d take Tom Brady. But Brees is the guy with the most current hardware and he looks pretty damn good too.

    If I were on a defense, I wouldn’t be thrilled to see either of them running the offense.

    This is clearly Suggs pulling the Lou Holtz mind trick by talking up the competition to the point where even the good Lord above couldn’t beat them. It tells me they are worried about this game and what it means in the standings.

  14. macjacmccoy says: Dec 16, 2010 10:07 AM

    I dunno if hes better but I do believe that he might do more with less then the other two. Peyton Manning has always had alot a help so hes already out but when it comes to Brady I think its closer then many think.

    Welker is a legimate number 1 and Branch was a good number 2 his whole career until he went to a bad injure depleted Seahawks team. I just think he got lost in the shuffle like Moss did in Oakland. Gronkowski and Hernandez are 2 of the best young TE in the league and brady has the best offensive line in football in my opinion.

    Drew Brees on the other hand has a mediocre offensive line at best. When it comes to his receivers I think they are very average. Marcus Colston is not a number 1 he is number 2 receiver on most teams. And the other guys like Meachem, Lance Moore, and Henderson are role players or 3rd receivers at most. Jeremey Schockey is well Jeremy Schockey he hasn’t been good for 4 years.

    So while everyone is talking about how the Patriots dont have the weapons that other teams do I would argue that Drew Brees’ has about the same amount of talent around him as Tom Brady.

  15. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:07 AM

    “However, if Suggs is basing his analysis on either “numbers” or “hardware,” it’s tough to see how Brees comes out on top.”

    He may not be on top, but he can definitely argue to be 2nd in either case.

    Rings:
    Brady – 3
    Brees – 1, with a win head-to-head over Peyton
    Manning – 1

    Not to mention Brees has the best overall stats of any QB since 2006.

    Since 2006:
    Brees – 1934-for-2880 (67.2%), 22153 yards, 150 TD (5.2 TD%), 75 INTs (2.6 INT%), 7.7 YPA, 96.6 QB rating
    Brady – 1379-for-2095 (65.8%), 16207 yards, 131 TDs (6.3 TD%), 61 INTs (2.9 INT%), 7.7 YPA, 99.0 QB rating
    Manning – 1841-for-2767 (66.5%), 20967 yards, 148 TDs (5.3 TD%), 66 INTs (2.4 INT%), 7.6 YPA, 97.0 QB rating

    Brees leads in completions, attempts, completion %, yards, TDs, and YPA. Brady leads in TD%, YPA, and QB rating. Manning leads in INT%.

    And Brees has done it without 1st-round picks and HOF receivers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Randy Moss. His best WR is a 7th-round pick who was 4 picks from being Mr. Irrelevant.

    Brady deserves to be called the best QB today, especially the way he’s currently playing. But Brees has earned the 2nd-place spot over Peyton.

  16. neverend1 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:07 AM

    Brees has what? Triple the INTs Brady has? Maybe even quadruple

    Plus, Brees’ completion percentage rate is skewed by his offense. The Saints throw more designed screens than probably any other team in the league.

    Brees is an accurate QB, I’ll give him that but he’s not better than peyton or brady. Peyton and Brady mean everything to their offenses, they work hard and adjust their offense based on whatever defense the opposition shows. They have tremendous awareness and they know how to beat any kind of defense. Brees’ success has just as much to do with him as it does sean peyton, who is an offensive genius at designing plays. The same argument can be made for Rivers too.

    This argument is moot. Brees is an accurate QB, but not at Brady’s level. Of course homer Saints fans will disagree and call Brees the best thing since sliced bread

  17. johntonioholmes says: Dec 16, 2010 10:10 AM

    I’ll buy that he;s better than Brady, only because Brady never put up gaudy numbers until 2007 (he had Moss, who made Cunningham and Culpepper look like Marino). This year, he’s done well running a wet coast offense, which made Matt Hasselbeck look good for a couple years too.

    Brady’s rings, as far as I’m concerned, are completely tainted. They have a giant asterisk next to them.

    But he’s not better than Manning. Sorry, but there is not a QB who puts the ball right in the bread basket more often than Manning. He’s the only guy who routinely completes passes to completely covered receivers, who aren’t named Randy Moss.

  18. robermar2 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:13 AM

    Desperate for some content today or what, Mr. Smith?

    Suggs clearly said this in jest. You guys construe everything to make it seem combative.

  19. jdcheesewright says: Dec 16, 2010 10:14 AM

    Right now Tom Brady is playing phenomenal quarterback at the absolutely highest level. There’s no question any of those guys give their teams the best chance to win on any given game day, but if I had to pick between the three for this weekend it would have to be Brady. He’s just been playing head and shoulders above anyone else in the NFL for the last several weeks.

  20. polegojim says: Dec 16, 2010 10:16 AM

    Brady
    Manning
    Drees

    Anyone who judges Manning on this years performance should just stay out of the conversation.

  21. mproyiii says: Dec 16, 2010 10:16 AM

    @bcozthenight Brees IS a lock for HOF if he has four more years at this pace. Look at his career numbers, then look at those of many people alredy in HOF. He may not be Brady, but he is DEFINITELY in higher stratum than Simms or Roethlisberger.

  22. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:23 AM

    #
    bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 10:00 AM

    All three are excellent quarterbacks.

    Brady and Manning are 100% locks for the Hall of Fame.

    Brees? A lock for the hall of fame?

    He’s been a Superbowl MVP, but never a league MVP.

    From a hardware point of view, he’s like Phil Simms. Not a Hall of Famer.

    From a statistical point of view, he’s like Ben Roethlisberger. Good, but not a Hall of Famer.

    He’s got more work to do before he can be considered in a class with Brady and Manning.

    ————————————————–
    Both Brady and Manning have more career starts than Brees. They SHOULD have better overall numbers. Brady is closer to Brees in terms of starts (he only has 7 more). If you compare their stats, Brees has more completions, more attempts, a better completion %, more yards, and an equal YPA. Brady has a higher TD% and a lower INT%. I’d say that puts Brees solidly in Brady’s class stat-wise.

    Brees has deserved to be a league MVP the past 2 seasons but both times it went to Manning. Not to say Peyton doesn’t deserve them, but Brees was just as good or better each year and the vote wasn’t even close, which is BS. If he puts up comparable numbers, Peyton Manning will win the MVP because he’s Peyton Manning.

    How does Big Ben compare to Brees statistically? Brees has set the record for highest completion % in a season and been only the 2nd person to throw for 5000 yards. Brees has put up elite numbers; Ben hasn’t come close to that. This comparison is an insult to Brees.

    A while ago, I ran the numbers. If Brees has 4 more Brees-like seasons and then retires, he will finish 4th all-time in completions, 4th all-time in passing yards, 4th or 5th all-time (depending on Brady) in TD passes, 7th all-time in QB rating, only 23rd all-time in INTs (not bad considering how much he passes), and 2nd all-time in completion %. For each of these, I used his lowest total as a Saint for a baseline, which means he could just as easily move up an additional spot or 2 in any of these categories.

    Barring injury, Brees will retire as a top 5 QB (statistically) with the likes of Favre, Manning, Brady, Elway, and Marino.

  23. turbodog1027 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:25 AM

    I’m a Saints fan and i wouldn’t put Brees ahead of Brady or Manning right now but he’s nipping at their heels. Hall of Fame? If his next 5 years are as good as his last 5, then YES and I sure hope they are.
    WHO DAT BABY

  24. RexCanCoach says: Dec 16, 2010 10:26 AM

    Not a chance in the WORLD you can put Brees on the same level as P. Manning and Brady. I’ve wasted enough ink on this…

  25. pastabelly says: Dec 16, 2010 10:29 AM

    We get it. Suggs doesn’t like Manning and Brady. Move on (or move out). Not a big deal.

  26. patstrustee says: Dec 16, 2010 10:35 AM

    You can take all the dome stadium quarterbacks (i.e. arena league) and put them in a whole different category. They should not be compared to quarterbacks who play the majority of their games in open air stadiums, in the elements.

  27. canadianvikingfaniii says: Dec 16, 2010 10:36 AM

    With that mentality and reasoning he might as well say that Tarvaris Jackson is the best QB in the league or John David Booty, hell even Brian St. Pierre.

  28. pervyharvin says: Dec 16, 2010 10:37 AM

    This conversation is insane. We all know Tarvaris Jackson is the NFL elite QB

  29. zimaman says: Dec 16, 2010 10:39 AM

    johntonioholmes says: nonsense
    Dec 16, 2010 10:10 AM
    ________________________

    just for you johntonioholmes – READ IT AND WEEP!

    New England Patriots
    G W-L Pct. Points per game

    Pre-Sanction 126 87-39 .690 23.4

    Since Sanction 64 49-15 .766 29.4

    guess the news johntonioholmes you lose

  30. masteel says: Dec 16, 2010 10:40 AM

    as the old saying goes …”kill ‘em with kindness” huh Suggs?

    @all4patriots

    appreciate the attempt to elevate Ben but he honestly would be the 2nd or 3rd from the bottom right now. holds onto ball too long, he still has yet to put a consistent 4 quarter game together, and only has 1 TD pass in last 3 games (yikes)

    Steeler Fan

  31. waynesborokennyg says: Dec 16, 2010 10:47 AM

    If the Colts weren’t struggling as of late nobody would be questioning Manning’s place at the top of the list where he belongs (as much as I hate to say it, I have respect for the man). I think Aaron Rodgers should be mentioned up there as well. Brees would be 4 or 5 on my list.

    Brees is a good QB and there’s not many of them.

  32. myspaceyourface says: Dec 16, 2010 10:48 AM

    Suggs is a head case. . .

  33. importantpftcomment says: Dec 16, 2010 10:48 AM

    #RexCanCoach says: Dec 16, 2010 10:26 AM

    Not a chance in the WORLD you can put Brees on the same level as P. Manning and Brady. I’ve wasted enough ink on this…
    ___________________________

    Absolutely correct. Time will show that Brees is many levels ABOVE either one!

  34. bigkatt says: Dec 16, 2010 10:49 AM

    The last time Brady threw a pic I think it was to Night Train Lane. Brees is good for at least one a week. They say Manning essentially runs the Colts practice and is one of the only quarterbacks that somewhat calls his own plays. Brees is great don’t get me wrong but he’s at least a step behind Brady and at least a half step behind Manning.

  35. salmen76 says: Dec 16, 2010 10:49 AM

    Wrong mike. You say Brees don’t have the hardware. What rock have you been hiding under. Drew Brees is the defending NFL Super Bowl champion QB. And he beat your boy Peyton to get that hardware. So the way i see it since Peyton lost to Brees and they both have one ring then the tie breaker is Drew beat him head to head so Drew is much better than Peyton. Now Brady is better than Peyton by a long shot (3 rings) and maybe at this stage of his career a little better than Brees but not much. Saints are da Champs and yall still can’ take it. Well take this, the Saints will go to and win the SB again this year. How ya like that for green apples pal? Geaux Saints!!

  36. luckynumberlucas says: Dec 16, 2010 10:53 AM

    Yeah.

    Brees has 18 picks, Brady has 4.

    Brady has faced the toughest defenses in football (NYJ2x, PIT, BAL, CHI, SD) Brees mostly faced the lackluster defenses down south.

    Brady has 3 rings, Brees, luckily, got 1.

    Brady will be in the HoF, Brees not.

  37. alltee says: Dec 16, 2010 10:54 AM

    hes got the numbers and hardware to prove it…..LOL

    by prove it do u mean, he has 2 less rings then tom brady, one less season mvp, and a crap load less records.

    suggs the numbers clearly prove brady is better. that being said i rather suggs think brady is the worse qb in the league so we can laugh at him being beaten by the pats every single time except for one.

  38. lanjoith says: Dec 16, 2010 10:54 AM

    And Rivers is better than all 3.

  39. xxwhodatxx says: Dec 16, 2010 10:57 AM

    Yea Payton had a good year last year,but the only reason he won MVP is because everyone thought he was gonna win the SB MVP it was gonna be perfect…Brees had better stats in almost every category then proceeded to whoop that a** in the SB he was robbed out of the league MVP

  40. redrew says: Dec 16, 2010 11:00 AM

    Suggs and Wrecks Ryan…the gifts that keep on giving. Have you heard that Santonio opted out of punt returns because it wasn’t fun. The inmates are running the asylum.

  41. bkelbaugh says: Dec 16, 2010 11:04 AM

    Look at the numbers for Big Mouth vs those guys
    vs Manning= 0-7 vs Brady= 1-3 no wonder he hates them both!

  42. r0b1b0y says: Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM

    brady has the hardware and stats can’t argue that, manning is a regular season hero and a post season turd who is a less than desirable team mate, brees has had the best 5 year stretch (2006 to current) statistically of any qb in the history of the nfl….right now is what suggs is talking about….right now i’d go:
    brady
    brees
    ryan

  43. xxwhodatxx says: Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM

    Oh and for any”big ben” fans He’s nowhere near elite QB status maybe an elite “game manager” he’s like an older mark Sanchez the steeler D carries the team till ben has to make one throw to win

  44. boisestatewhodat says: Dec 16, 2010 11:06 AM

    Suggs is right…Brees is the best QB in the NFL right now and when Febuary is here and Brees has another ring…we’ll all be talking about the WHO DAT DYNASTY!! Take it to the bank!

  45. bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 11:09 AM

    mproyiii and nps6724,

    I may have given the wrong impression.

    I think we agree.

    If Brees had to retire today, would he get in the HOF? Hard to say. Maybe, maybe not, but he wouldn’t be a lock.

    If Brees’s next 5 years are like the last 5, then he’s a lock for the hall. No question.

  46. iluvwikileaks says: Dec 16, 2010 11:11 AM

    Tom Brady has been lucky to have good coaches and offensive lines through the years. That short pass crap is overrated.

    Manning is better.

    Brees is the best.

    So, I say Suggs has a point.

  47. comeonnowguys says: Dec 16, 2010 11:15 AM

    Tom Brady = Modern Day Terry Bradshaw.

    Still better than Brees.

  48. thegreatwhitemidget says: Dec 16, 2010 11:16 AM

    Well it’s honestly what your looking for in a qb if you want accuracy brees if you want deep ball manning if you want great play action brady

  49. ppdoc13 says: Dec 16, 2010 11:21 AM

    i agree with suggs. the only qb who may be better right now is brady. both of them are better than manning at this point in their careers.

  50. Omar Comin says: Dec 16, 2010 11:26 AM

    Sizzle, STFU!!! Just play and win the game. You’ve been playing like an animal the past 2 weeks, stay humble my friend..

  51. bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 11:27 AM

    Brady = Bradshaw. Interesting comparison, but almost exactly 100% wrong.

    Bradshaw had more physical talent than Brady (look at his career rushing yardage) but let’s face it; he couldn’t spell CAT if you spotted him the C and the T.

    Brady is not as physically talented, but his IQ is estimated at 155. He wins because he’s smart.

    Brady probably wouldn’t have been an HOF quarterback in Bradshaw’s day, and Bradshaw wouldn’t be an HOF quarterback if he played today.

  52. bucsballer says: Dec 16, 2010 11:27 AM

    u guys all worship brady…..well if i had the weapons he did i bet i could win too. Brees pretty much saved the saints, they are nothing without him as much as people say there good that offense is nothin if he is not playing. People callin suggs an idiot y do i bet he prolly could kill u and ur team. Honestly least brees wins game without crying to the ref any time a guy gets near him. Yea sure brady is so “emotional”….. that’s only wen he doesnt get a call. Like how bout earlier this season wen suggs lit him up an brady started crying cause he was touched and how dare the ref not call something. All u Suggs haters are jealous, U realize he is prolly the best Hybrid linebacker in the league right now. U go Suggs kick there butts

  53. scra22 says: Dec 16, 2010 11:29 AM

    bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 10:00 AM

    All three are excellent quarterbacks.

    From a statistical point of view, he’s like Ben Roethlisberger. Good, but not a Hall of Famer.
    ====

    Really? I don’t blame anyone for saying Brees isn’t better than Manning and Brady, but acting like Brees doesn’t have stats to back him up is pure ignorance.

    Brees set the completion percentage record last year, became the fourth QB in NFL history to have at least 25 touchdowns in 5 consecutive seasons this year, has had 36 300-yard games in the past 5 years, more than any other QB in NFL history in a 5-year time span; has thrown more yards (~22,000) in the last 5 years than any other QB in NFL history in a 5-year time span, tied the Super Bowl completion record, and in 145 yards will be the second QB in NFL history to have 5 consecutive seasons of 4,000 yards or more.

    Please wake me up when Big Ben really does compare to Drew “statistically.”

  54. annnann says: Dec 16, 2010 11:33 AM

    I’m a Saints fan but Drew Brees is NOT better than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Brees is a great QB and is winning games for the Saints, we’re more than thankful for him and I hope one day he goes in the HOF, but it would be homer talk to put him above those two. Suggs just has personal issues with Brady and Manning otherwise he would never say that.

  55. scra22 says: Dec 16, 2010 11:35 AM

    #
    luckynumberlucas says: Dec 16, 2010 10:53 AM

    Yeah.

    Brees has 18 picks, Brady has 4.

    Brady has faced the toughest defenses in football (NYJ2x, PIT, BAL, CHI, SD) Brees mostly faced the lackluster defenses down south.

    Brady has 3 rings, Brees, luckily, got 1.

    Brady will be in the HoF, Brees not.

    ===

    Brees has had a bad year as far as interceptions, but he is 2nd in touchdowns and his team is 10-3, something they wouldn’t be close to without him. Brees has a great chance to make the HOF, especially if he continues to play at a high level. Just because someone had the audacity to say he’s better than Brady (and obviously it was just out of spite) doesn’t mean you have to tear him down. You just look like a hater.

    “Luckily” has 1? Yeah, that 13-3, #1 offense, dominating team sure was “lucky.”

  56. bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 11:39 AM

    scra22 says:
    Dec 16, 2010 11:29 AM

    Please wake me up when Big Ben really does compare to Drew “statistically.”

    ===========

    Brees career QB rating: 92.1
    Roethlisberger career QB rating: 92.1

    You can’t just go siting a few statistics about one player or another without considering the whole package.

    I’ll agree that the QB rating is flawed but at least it’s an objective compilation of all relevant data.

  57. daveomcd says: Dec 16, 2010 11:41 AM

    Here are his NFL records…

    ————————————————–
    Most completions, season – 440 (2007)

    Highest completion percentage, season – 70.62% (2009)

    Highest completion percentage, career postseason – 66.67% (150/225)

    Lowest interception percentage, career postseason – 0.89%

    Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
    ————————————————–

    Now look at who Brady and Manning have had to throw too. (Moss, Wayne, Harrison, Welker, … Tracey Porter haha )
    Brees has had WRs that while I think are very good, talented, are not any of the names listed above.

    He also did all this with the Aints so yah. Brady, Brees, Manning

  58. breeshasabush says: Dec 16, 2010 11:43 AM

    What did Suggs say??? He thinks Brees is better than Manning and Brady right now and should be considered to be in the same category with them as Elite QB’s (which he clearly deserves). The only reason he doesnt have at least Two league MVP’s is bc Manning surpassed him by just a thread but when it really counted Brees outplayed Manning at the highest level in football (1 of the years Manning won the league MVP). So he has the same amount of rings that Manning has and he won his against a No.1 seeded Colt/Manning team not a flash in the pan SEAHAWKS team. Edge-Brees. Brady has more rings but he hasn’t won ANYTHING that counts since 2004. What teams did he win against in the SB’s he won: Mike Martz Watered down Rams, a Jake Delhomme led flash in the pan Panthers team, and a one man team in the T.O. eagles team (broken leg and still had 9 catches 122yrds) but mcnabb couldnt “stomach it at the end”……. Point is that was 6 years ago (yeah they went undefeated in 07 REGULAR SEASON but lost to an inferior Giants team in the big game). Brees is winning his NOW which is what suggs said. Brees has never had a Randy Moss or Reggie wayne and yet he threw for over 5,000 yard in 08! He makes his entire offense better bc of how he plays. So Suggs really isnt being far fetched because the stats speak for themselves and RIGHT NOW Brees has proven to be better than both of them he is the reigning Superbowl MVP and until a new champ is crowned hes doing better than both manning and Tom “my last ring says 2004″ Brady.

  59. RexCanCoach says: Dec 16, 2010 11:47 AM

    importantpftcomment says:

    Time will show that Brees is many levels ABOVE either one!

    ———————–

    Yeah, that’s a great comeback. And if the Queen had balls she would be the King. Let me guess you also believe Sidney Crosby will be a better NHL player than Wayne Gretzky too, isn’t that right?

    Go get an “NFL Football For Dummies” book for Christmas! And in the meantime please do not slander Brady or Manning on this board by claiming Brees is a better QB.

  60. breeshasabush says: Dec 16, 2010 11:49 AM

    CORRECTION i meant to say COLTS BEAT a REX GROSSMAN BEARS TEAM, in MIAMI not CHICAGO (where the weather was a blizzard)

  61. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 11:50 AM

    #
    bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 11:09 AM

    mproyiii and nps6724,

    I may have given the wrong impression.

    I think we agree.

    If Brees had to retire today, would he get in the HOF? Hard to say. Maybe, maybe not, but he wouldn’t be a lock.

    If Brees’s next 5 years are like the last 5, then he’s a lock for the hall. No question.

    ————————————————–

    I agree he wouldn’t be a lock if he retired today. But that’s more due to time in the league than anything. Very few, if any, QBs could retire at 31 and get in.

    #
    luckynumberlucas says: Dec 16, 2010 10:53 AM

    Yeah.

    Brees has 18 picks, Brady has 4.

    Brady has faced the toughest defenses in football (NYJ2x, PIT, BAL, CHI, SD) Brees mostly faced the lackluster defenses down south.

    Brady has 3 rings, Brees, luckily, got 1.

    Brady will be in the HoF, Brees not.

    ———————————————

    Brees will definitely be in the HOF so long as he doesn’t suffer career-ending injury.

    How did Brees “luckily” get a ring? The Saints beat the Colts by a wider margin than all 3 of the Pats’ SB wins combined. I wouldn’t call either lucky, but the Pats were far closer to luck than the Saints in that regard.

    Brees has faced the following defenses:

    Seattle – 6th in completion % against, 12th in sacks
    Tampa – 12th in completion % against, 11th in passing yards allowed, 10th in YPA allowed, 3rd in INTs
    Cleveland – 14th in completion % against, 16th in passing yards allowed, 3rd in INTs, 16th in sacks
    San Francisco – 14th in sacks
    Cincinnati – 15th in passing yards allowed, 13th in INTs
    Arizona – 15th in completion % against, 10th in INTs
    Carolina (x2) – 10th in [passing yards allowed, 12th in YPA allowed, 8th in INTs
    Minnesota – 12th in passing yards allowed, 11th in YPA allowed
    St. Louis – 10th in completion % against, 15th in YPA allowed, 6th in sacks
    Atlanta – 6th in INTs
    Pittsburgh – 6th in INTs, 1st in sacks
    Dallas – 10th in INTs

    There may not be a ton of great defenses in there, but there are several above-average ones. It’s not like they play Houston every week. And Brees will end up facing 2 of the 5 defenses you listed in addition to all the above-average ones.

    You make it seem like a contest where only 1 can get in. Both are great QBs and both will be honored in Canton.

  62. jjarvis says: Dec 16, 2010 11:57 AM

    The Ravens used to be tough and do their talking on the field. But now they seem to have turned into the biggest whiners in the league. Rex Ryan may talk a lot but I don’t hear him whining about losses or so-and-so being protected; maybe once he left the attitude shifted? Maybe it’s just Suggs and Reed? Not sure. But it is making me start to root against the Ravens fairly consistently, except when they play the other west coast whiners in San Diego.

  63. homelanddefense says: Dec 16, 2010 12:02 PM

    Suggs could really do himself a favor and close his mouth for once. Brees is a great QB, but he is not on the level of Brady or Manning yet……

  64. nathanscottphillips says: Dec 16, 2010 12:12 PM

    You Brady haters crack me up talking about how Brady owes it to his talented receivers. Can you even name any of the SB winning era receivers? What happened when they left NE? They became JAGS and retired. Ask a Seattle fan what Branch did there. Now multiple knee surgeries and lack of burst later… He teams up with Brady again and look at him. Most of the 06′ receivers aren’t even in the league any longer and for good reason. It wasn’t until 07′ and Moss that Brady started putting up gaudy numbers. Give him the weapons that Manning has had his entire career and most years would have looked like 07′ and 10′.

  65. kellyb9 says: Dec 16, 2010 12:17 PM

    Why doesn’t Suggs just say, “I hate qb’s a play on a frequent basis.” He’s probably only played against Brees 2 or 3 times.

  66. cshearing says: Dec 16, 2010 12:22 PM

    Well, at least Suggs seems to recognize his bias, even if he doesn’t seem to care.

  67. nesuperfan says: Dec 16, 2010 12:31 PM

    importantpftcomment says:
    Dec 16, 2010 10:48 AM
    #RexCanCoach says: Dec 16, 2010 10:26 AM

    Not a chance in the WORLD you can put Brees on the same level as P. Manning and Brady. I’ve wasted enough ink on this…
    ___________________________

    Absolutely correct. Time will show that Brees is many levels ABOVE either one!

    ________________________________

    Isn’t time supposed to show that Tiger Woods is greater than Jack Nicklaus? How is that going lately?

    A lot of crap can happen along the way to greatness. What will be, will be, but today, and that is all that counts, Brady is better than Brees.

  68. 1historian says: Dec 16, 2010 12:33 PM

    johntonioholmes – “Brady’s SB rings are tainted.”

    Your opinion and you are welcome to it.

    To support that opinion – please furnish PROOF that the Patriots cheated in those games – how they did it – what form did it take? And most important – HOW THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT FOR 7 YEARS.

    Note – “everybody knows” is not considered proof.

    They got caught stealing defensive signals in the 1st half of the first game of the 2007 season. They were told to stop, they did. It would follow that the league would keep an EXTRA SHARP eye on them after that.
    They did.
    Any complaints since then? None.
    Their record since then? 49-15

    You and all your fellow Pats haters are just blowing smoke – you have NO proof of your accusations.

  69. 1historian says: Dec 16, 2010 12:36 PM

    Brady has been an all-star QB for the last 9 years, Brees is a johnny-come lately. No disrespect intended, but he is not in either Manning’s or Brady’s class – yet.
    That takes years.

  70. barneyrumble says: Dec 16, 2010 12:41 PM

    Colts/Bears Fan here:

    Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the NFL this year PERIOD
    No question about this year.

    Of all time? That remains to be seen, but Brady is better than Manning this year and Brees is a great QB but not in the same conversation with Brady/Manning yet.

  71. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 12:59 PM

    #
    1historian says: Dec 16, 2010 12:36 PM

    Brady has been an all-star QB for the last 9 years, Brees is a johnny-come lately. No disrespect intended, but he is not in either Manning’s or Brady’s class – yet.
    That takes years.

    —————————————————-

    Brees – 8 seasons as a starting QB, 4 Pro Bowls, 1 All-Pro
    Brady – 8 seasons as a starting QB, 5 Pro Bowls, 1 All-Pro

  72. salmen76 says: Dec 16, 2010 1:03 PM

    Brady is a scrub. Peyton is a scrub. Why? Because they are not Champs. Ha Ha. Gotcha. That’s right. Brees is the reigning Champ boys. Last time Peyton and Brady won rings players were still wearing leather helmets and Bret Favre was a rookie. Ha Ha. By the way, Brett is a scrub too. Breesus is the man. yall wish you had him but you don’t. Tune is Sunday and watch Brees lite up the Ravens secondary so bad their safties will spontaniously combust while trying to keeo up, Poof, like in that movie War of The Worlds. Champs will bury the Ravens like the scrubs they are. I love being a fan of the SB Champin Saints. We da Champs. Yall ain’t. Ha Ha. Geaux Saints!

  73. pfii63 says: Dec 16, 2010 1:09 PM

    Tom Brady: 109.9 Passer Rating, 29 TD, 4 INT
    Pay-me-a-ton Manning: 91.2 Passer Rating, 26 TD, 15 INT
    Drew Brees: 93.6 Passer Rating, 28 TD, 18 INT

    Hey Terrell, STFU. I really hope the Ravens make it to Foxborough in January so that the Patriots can pound the snot out of the thugs and whiners.

  74. scra22 says: Dec 16, 2010 1:10 PM

    #
    bcozthenight says: Dec 16, 2010 11:39 AM
    Brees career QB rating: 92.1
    Roethlisberger career QB rating: 92.1

    You can’t just go siting a few statistics about one player or another without considering the whole package.

    I’ll agree that the QB rating is flawed but at least it’s an objective compilation of all relevant data.
    =====

    Drew’s average quarterback rating for the past 5 years (all of the stats I listed are from the past 5 seasons) is 97, Ben’s is 90.94. Drew’s first five years in the league were not quite at that level (average 86.4) and so they drag his career average down, but he has played out of his mind the last five seasons.

    I am not trying to insult Ben, and he is a good QB, but in the last five years, Brees has set multiple statistic records, and I don’t see Ben doing that. I don’t think anyone would say that Ben has played up to the individual level that Drew has the past 5 years.

  75. kimcon22000 says: Dec 16, 2010 1:37 PM

    For all you stat monkeys – stats are for losers ……………

  76. cantarguefacts says: Dec 16, 2010 1:49 PM

    Brees is not on the same level as Brady and Manning, he isnt even close. And what is with the people that say “Brees beat Manning head to head”?? I didnt realize Brees and Manning both doubled and played on defense. Eli Manning is a better Qb than Brady because he beat him in the SB…is that really good logic?? No. Colt McCoy has a “head-to-head” win over Brady this year so I guess McCoy needs to be ahead of him in MVP voting. Seriously, what kind of logic do some of you people have?? It cant all be based on stats or rings. Im not saying neither are important but its an entire combination of things. Thats what decides the MVP. Who does the most for his team every day.
    The answer is more often than not, Peyton Manning. He’s a winer, has a huge head and gets paid way too much money (but so do a lot of NFL players). Manning does more for his team because without him the team is nothing. We saw how Painter looked with the starting O-line last year. It was awful. When Brady went down, the pats barely missed a beat, 11-5. With Brady they were easily 12-4 or 13-3 but without him they were still 11-5 and thats a playoff record most years. Peyton Manning runs his team and is doing it this year with basically no help. Awful run blocking, no healthy RB’s, and who the helll is out there catching the ball?! Wayne looks like he has lost a step, collie is all but gone, clark is gone and who the hell is Blair White? Brady and Manning are amazing, and there will never be a clear cut answer for who is better. Both work withless than average talent right now and make their supporting casts look like studs.

  77. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 2:07 PM

    Maybe because Painter is a terrible backup while Brady’s backup has gone to KC and has had a very good season himself.

    The voters just look for any reason to give Manning the MVP if he’s anywhere close. When someone has better numbers than him, they extol his intangibles and how he does it on his own (always ignoring the myriad of 1st-round picks and HOFs on their offense). When he has the better stats, they just quote his stats and never mention the intangibles of the other candidates.

    How many times did the media play up how Manning was throwing to Garcon and Collie last year? What they never mentioned was how Wayne and Clark both topped 100 and Garcon and Collie combined for slightly over 100. Yet they never mention how Brady or Brees have relied on UDFAs, castoffs, and low-drafted WRs as their main targets.

    This is the first time Manning hasn’t had a 1st-round pick starting at WR and he suddenly looks human. Funny how that works.

    Manning has had the absolute best setup any QB has ever had. Same offensive coaching staff for almost his entire career, surrounded by 1st-round picks every year, never changed offensive scheme. Combine that with his obvious talent and of course he looks that much better than everyone else.

  78. cscfriarbob says: Dec 16, 2010 2:18 PM

    Short answer to the question? 99% of Saints fans will all say Drew, 99% of Colts fans will all say Peyton, and 99% Patriots fans will all say Tom. They’re all wrong simply because they’re all biased.

    Right now Drew doesn’t have the numbers, but if he keeps up his current pace he’ll probably catch the other two someday. Given that he started after them as well, he’ll likely need to finish after them to do it, but it’s still likely he will.

    In the meantime, it’s pretty much week-to-week and year-to-year. Last year Drew at least equaled Peyton if not actually outperforming him, but he didn’t get the MVP or even a share of it. This year Tom is clearly outperforming the other two and probably will get the MVP.

    Sucks to be Drew I guess. Oh well, the Super Bowl ring was probably a nice consolation prize. /sarc

  79. cantarguefacts says: Dec 16, 2010 3:02 PM

    @cscfriarbob

    Thats what it comes down to. Biased commenting. Each fan is going to defend their boy. Which is good to an extent. And thats why there will never be a clear cut answer as to who the best is of the three (But I think its clearly between Manning and Brady right now). And to single handedly give Brady the MVP like so many want to do is absurd. We all know that the MVP does not go to Mr. Statistics, if it did then Chris Johnson would have recieved it last year. It is about 45% Popularity and 25% Stats and 30% what the player does for his team as an idividual. So that, in my opinion, leaves Brady, Manning, and Vick. Thats my list, no more and no less, sorry. I hate to be cliche and have only QB’s but this is just how it is. Those three players are the epitomy of an MVP this year. And im not a very big fan of Vick but you can argue with what he has done for his team. I think Brady is most deserving of the MVP award this year, he has the leadership and stats to back it up this season and he should be throwing some thank yous around to his team for that. Brady doesnt have to do it all himself which is a nice break for him. This award is his to lose at this point in my mind. We will see what happens.

    And how can people say that brady hasnt had good players surrounding him? He has had an amazing O-line his entire career, and the skill players that he has had around him have not been awful. Branch is no slouch, Randy Moss is a pretty damn good reciever, He has had that good oline with very reliable RB’s in his backfield. The guy isnt working with college walk ons. He has good weapons. Manning has had the same type of treatment. He has been more priveledged with Harrison and Wayne but at the same time if you looks at Marvin Harrison’s stat pre-Manning, they arent nearly what they were after he came into the league. Wayne is an all-pro WR but I wouldnt say HOF lock. And for all that first round talent he supposedly has…Not one O-lineman was drafted in the 1st round and in fact his best lineman (saturday) is an UDFA. Gonzalez has done nothing from what I can tell and Donald Brown seems to be a waste at this point. So his talent has been Harrison Wayne, Addai and James. Thats good company, dont get me wrong, but Addai hasnt doen much since his 2nd year because the line is deteriorating. Polian #%&!ed up by shipping off his best run blocker and a 7-6 record is what karma gave him back.
    The bottom line is that Brady has had the benefit of a better TEAM, maybe not a better offense, but what wins championships? Defense. Brady had that for 3 titles. in 2007 their defense was not up to par with the dominant defenses of their past glory, thats why they have that unfortunate 1 in the loss column that year. And im not trying to be an ass, its unfortunate to see them go 18-1, 19-0 wouldve been really cool to see. But im just another screen name blabbing so rip this to shreds…

  80. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 3:53 PM

    cantarguefacts says: Dec 16, 2010 3:02 PM

    And how can people say that brady hasnt had good players surrounding him?

    —————————————–

    Because in heir Super Bowl-winning years, he was throwing to Troy Brown, David Givens, David Patten and Reche Caldwell. And now he has undrafted Wes Welker and undrafted Danny Woodhead making large contributions.

    cantarguefacts says: Dec 16, 2010 3:02 PM

    if you looks at Marvin Harrison’s stat pre-Manning, they arent nearly what they were after he came into the league.

    —————————————–

    Yeah, because Harrison was drafted in ’96. WRs routinely take 3-4 years to “get it”. And even still, pre-Peyton he had 137 receptions, 1702 yards, and 14 TDs. He put up very good numbers as a 1st- and 2nd-year WR.

    cantarguefacts says: Dec 16, 2010 3:02 PM

    So his talent has been Harrison Wayne, Addai and James.

    —————————————–

    And Clark.

    That means for the majority of his career, Peyton Manning has had AT LEAST 2 1st-round starting receivers (Harrison/Wayne and then Wayne/Clark), not to mention 5.5 years with 3 1st-round starting receivers (Harrison/Wayne/Clark), and a 1st-round starting RB every season of his career.

    Poor widdle Peyton.

  81. patsforlife says: Dec 16, 2010 4:07 PM

    Both Brady and Manning have more career starts than Brees. They SHOULD have better overall numbers. Brady is closer to Brees in terms of starts (he only has 7 more). If you compare their stats, Brees has more completions, more attempts, a better completion %, more yards, and an equal YPA. Brady has a higher TD% and a lower INT%. I’d say that puts Brees solidly in Brady’s class stat-wise.

    Brees has deserved to be a league MVP the past 2 seasons but both times it went to Manning. Not to say Peyton doesn’t deserve them, but Brees was just as good or better each year and the vote wasn’t even close, which is BS. If he puts up comparable numbers, Peyton Manning will win the MVP because he’s Peyton Manning.

    How does Big Ben compare to Brees statistically? Brees has set the record for highest completion % in a season and been only the 2nd person to throw for 5000 yards. Brees has put up elite numbers; Ben hasn’t come close to that. This comparison is an insult to Brees.

    A while ago, I ran the numbers. If Brees has 4 more Brees-like seasons and then retires, he will finish 4th all-time in completions, 4th all-time in passing yards, 4th or 5th all-time (depending on Brady) in TD passes, 7th all-time in QB rating, only 23rd all-time in INTs (not bad considering how much he passes), and 2nd all-time in completion %. For each of these, I used his lowest total as a Saint for a baseline, which means he could just as easily move up an additional spot or 2 in any of these categories.

    Barring injury, Brees will retire as a top 5 QB (statistically) with the likes of Favre, Manning, Brady, Elway, and Marino.
    __________________________________

    Everybody is bringing up Drew Brees’ stats over the past five years and how they compare favorably to Brady. But if you anyone of you had any sense you would remember that Brady missed the entire 2008 season and is still just 19 TDs short of Brees’ 150 mark. Even in his early years where he sometimes struggled statistically (compared to the Peyton Mannings of the league) Brady through for more than 19 TD passes. So those statistical points are completely moot.

    How can anyone say Brady isn’t the best? I know I may be biased but he’s one 3 Super Bowls, to one for Brees and Manning. His stats have been better than Brees’ throughout each of their careers. Finally, Manning has had first round talent around him his entire career (Harrison, James, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, Addai, Brown, etc.), Brees has had Reggie Bush, Robert Meachem, and Jeremy Shockey, to go with Colston who, while he was a 7th round pick has been one of the most productive receivers since he entered the league. And Brady has had just two first round talents on his offense in his whole career, Laurence Maroney and Ben Watson. Three if you include Moss which you probably should. But in any case 3 first round talents offensively.

    If you don’t want to listen to me, then watch the games and you’ll see which one is best. Which one controls the games and dictates the defenses. It is clearly Tom Brady.

  82. pfii63 says: Dec 16, 2010 4:37 PM

    #
    salmen76 says: Dec 16, 2010 1:03 PM

    Brady is a scrub. Peyton is a scrub. Why? Because they are not Champs. Ha Ha. Gotcha. That’s right. Brees is the reigning Champ boys. Last time Peyton and Brady won rings players were still wearing leather helmets and Bret Favre was a rookie. Ha Ha. By the way, Brett is a scrub too. Breesus is the man. yall wish you had him but you don’t. Tune is Sunday and watch Brees lite up the Ravens secondary so bad their safties will spontaniously combust while trying to keeo up, Poof, like in that movie War of The Worlds. Champs will bury the Ravens like the scrubs they are. I love being a fan of the SB Champin Saints. We da Champs. Yall ain’t. Ha Ha. Geaux Saints!
    —————————————————

    Last year the saints and their fans were a welcome change and downright charming. This kind of nonsense gloating from a team that has won ONE Super Bowl degrades the whole fan base.

    Come back to us when you’ve won another one, Sparky.

  83. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 4:58 PM

    patsforlife says: Dec 16, 2010 4:07 PM

    How can anyone say Brady isn’t the best? I know I may be biased but he’s one 3 Super Bowls, to one for Brees and Manning. His stats have been better than Brees’ throughout each of their careers. Finally, Manning has had first round talent around him his entire career (Harrison, James, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, Addai, Brown, etc.), Brees has had Reggie Bush, Robert Meachem, and Jeremy Shockey, to go with Colston who, while he was a 7th round pick has been one of the most productive receivers since he entered the league. And Brady has had just two first round talents on his offense in his whole career, Laurence Maroney and Ben Watson. Three if you include Moss which you probably should. But in any case 3 first round talents offensively.

    If you don’t want to listen to me, then watch the games and you’ll see which one is best. Which one controls the games and dictates the defenses. It is clearly Tom Brady.

    ————————————–

    Brady has also played on much better overall teams than Brees throughout his career and has the best HC in the game. As much as I like Sean Payton, he tries to emulate Belichick for a reason. Brady has played in 4 Super Bowls and only 1 of them was a great performance while 1 was pretty poor for a winning QB (his first one). The Pats win as a team more so than due to just 1 player.

    Brady’s career stats are NOT better than Brees’. Brees has played in fewer games but leads Brady in completions, attempts, completion %, yards, and yards per game. Brady has more TDs and fewer INTs. At the very least, you could say their stats even out.

    Shockey was past his prime when the Saints got him. He’s still productive, but counting him as a 1st-round receiver for Brees is ridiculous. And Meachem hasn’t played like a 1st-rounder. Brees’ top targets have been Colston, Moore, and Bush. A 7th-rounder, a UDFA, and a 1st-round RB. He’s never had anything close to a Randy Moss to throw to. Really, Moss should be counted twice because that’s how good he’s been in his career (when motivated).

    In any event, I said Brady was #1 due to his stats and his 3 rings. But I don’t think there is a huge gap between he and Brees. Manning is a stat monster who chokes when it really matters (been his MO since college) and was put into the very best possible situation a QB could ever be in. And the way these 3 have been playing the past 2+ years, I’d hafta go Brady-Brees-Manning, in that order.

  84. patsforlife says: Dec 16, 2010 6:04 PM

    nps6724:

    All of your points are good ones. But I will say that you Brady’s performance in his first Super Bowl was remarkable. A first year starting QB committed no turnovers and threw a touchdown pass against, what people don’t remember was a good Rams defense. And the game winning drive was with 1:21 to play was surreal.

    I do agree with your order of Brady-Brees-Manning, though just by the way they are playing this season. I do, however, think that 20 years from now, Brady and Manning will be looked at as two of the best to ever play, while Brees will be seen as a guy like Jim Kelly. A very good NFL quarterback but not someone that people will look at as one of the top 5-10 to ever play.

  85. bcgreg says: Dec 16, 2010 6:09 PM

    @ nps6724

    Like the stats, but are you factoring in that Brady did not play in 2008?

    Brady
    Manning
    Brees

  86. elmobad says: Dec 16, 2010 6:21 PM

    behind Pat’s O-line.. Brady, Brees, Manning, Ben
    behind Steeler’s O-line.. Ben, Ben only

    Manning chokes..
    Brees, very good, coaching scheme tremendous help
    Brady, personally hate him, the best all time unless he’s hit.. put him behind the steeler’s O-line the last 5 years and he’s all ready retired..

  87. grpatriot says: Dec 16, 2010 6:33 PM

    Suggs is stupid and definatly should donate his wee brain to science!!! I think the Saints could win this game! The Ravens have been barely hanging on. Lewis is on the downside of his career.
    Having said all that, Brees can’t be seriously considered in Brady’s territory just yet!
    Brady will probably win another MVP, Ring # 4 and was 199th selection of the draft!
    Brady took the Patriots to the AFCC game in 2006 with receivers Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney and Doug Gabriel. Had a 21 point lead at the half vs, the Colts at the RCA dome! The defense ran out of gas.
    Finally the Patriot defense has been upgraded and Brady is playing at the highest level in his career! No Moss needed! With 2 UDFA RB’s and Rookie TE’s.
    Brees could overtake Brady, but it won’t be anytime soon! Brady is this generations Joe Montana!

  88. elmobad says: Dec 16, 2010 6:38 PM

    “To support that opinion – please furnish PROOF that the Patriots cheated in those games – how they did it – what form did it take? And most important – HOW THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT FOR 7 YEARS.”

    ahh.. Belicheat being fined and losing draft picks?
    is that enough proof?

    Don’t care what you say.. QB knowing a blitz is coming even one or two plays a game is a tremendous advantage..

  89. habsman says: Dec 16, 2010 7:34 PM

    Terrel Suggs…..smart like hammer.

  90. nps6724 says: Dec 16, 2010 9:58 PM

    #
    patsforlife says: Dec 16, 2010 6:04 PM

    nps6724:

    All of your points are good ones. But I will say that you Brady’s performance in his first Super Bowl was remarkable. A first year starting QB committed no turnovers and threw a touchdown pass against, what people don’t remember was a good Rams defense. And the game winning drive was with 1:21 to play was surreal.

    I do agree with your order of Brady-Brees-Manning, though just by the way they are playing this season. I do, however, think that 20 years from now, Brady and Manning will be looked at as two of the best to ever play, while Brees will be seen as a guy like Jim Kelly. A very good NFL quarterback but not someone that people will look at as one of the top 5-10 to ever play.

    ————————————–

    It was a decent performance, but that game was more about the Pats defense holding St. Louis to around half the points they averaged and forcing 3 turnovers. It was remarkable only when you factor in he was a 1st-year starter. But judging it on its own, it wasn’t much.

    As for Brees, 5 more years of Brees-like seasons and he’ll be top 5 in most every passing category. He’ll be right there with Favre, Manning, Marino, and Elway. I think Brady will have a similar legacy to Montana: good stats but more rings than his contemporaries.

  91. paulienuts says: Dec 17, 2010 12:32 AM

    For those Brees doubters: He’s got exactly the same number of rings as Manning. In fact his completion % is better than both Manning AND Brady @ 69%. Manning is 66.4% and Brady is 66.8%. Their QB ratings are:

    Brady – 109.9
    Brees – 93.6
    Manning – 91.2
    Again – better than Manning

    Brees has thrown for more yards than Brady => 3855 yds to Brady’s 3398 and 78 more completions than Brady.

    Brees’ INTs hurt him, 18 to Manning’s 15 and Brady’s 4, because he takes chances. Oh yeah, and he wins games. One less than Brady and 4 games more than Manning.

    So while y’all may want to dis Brees for whatever reason, you’d also better face the facts. He’s a VERY good QB…and getting better. For some reason, Manning is considered more for MVP than Brees and that is just ridiculous.

  92. Rosenthals Speling Instrukter says: Dec 17, 2010 1:21 PM

    Brees is terrific, probably #3 or #4 in the league.

    Is he at the level of Brady or Manning yet, no.

    Could he be one day, YES.

  93. ilovefoolsball says: Dec 17, 2010 2:43 PM

    All I know is that at the end of the game, when victory is on the line, I’d rather have Brees than either one of those other two. Manning has started to choke and Brady has only had mostly dominant victories.
    If you look at that Cowboys-Saints game on Thanksgiving and take a look at that last final drive that man was a cold hearted killer. If you have a weakness it will be exploited.

    Besides, does anyone remember the Monday night game in 2009 when the Saints played the Patriots? Brees destroyed Brady in that game. Head to head it wasn’t even close.

  94. masteel says: Dec 17, 2010 3:05 PM

    Football is right now with the past sprinkled in … how can we judge without the ‘full’ body of work and prior success with a look at the present.

    right now Brady is playing great, Brees is getting back to great, Manning is struggling, and Ben is giving me a headache.

    But in past Brady has been consistent and successful, Manning has been statistically superb but lacking in the playoffs, Brees has been reborn with the Saints and become a star recently.

    DOESN’T this all have to do with just winning and winning SB’s ? Huh. So the list is right now.

    #1 Brady 3-1 in SB’s and 4-1 in AFCC’s
    #2 Ben 2-0 in SB’s and 2-1 in AFCC’s
    #3 Manning 1-1 in SB’s and 2-1 in AFCC’s
    #4 Brees 1-0 in SB’s and 1-1 in NFCC’s

    stats are stats but when you figure it all out, all we fans want to do is see our team(s) win the SB so there is your ‘current’ order of QB’s

    Steeler Fan

  95. nps6724 says: Dec 17, 2010 3:14 PM

    #
    masteel says: Dec 17, 2010 3:05 PM

    Football is right now with the past sprinkled in … how can we judge without the ‘full’ body of work and prior success with a look at the present.

    right now Brady is playing great, Brees is getting back to great, Manning is struggling, and Ben is giving me a headache.

    But in past Brady has been consistent and successful, Manning has been statistically superb but lacking in the playoffs, Brees has been reborn with the Saints and become a star recently.

    DOESN’T this all have to do with just winning and winning SB’s ? Huh. So the list is right now.

    #1 Brady 3-1 in SB’s and 4-1 in AFCC’s
    #2 Ben 2-0 in SB’s and 2-1 in AFCC’s
    #3 Manning 1-1 in SB’s and 2-1 in AFCC’s
    #4 Brees 1-0 in SB’s and 1-1 in NFCC’s

    stats are stats but when you figure it all out, all we fans want to do is see our team(s) win the SB so there is your ‘current’ order of QB’s

    Steeler Fan

    —————————————

    More emphasis should be placed on how those QBs played in those big games than whether they won or lost. Ben may be 2-0 in the SB, but no one but an absolute homer would credit him with both. Specifically the 1st one. Same with Brady in their 1st SB. He played okay, but he wasn’t the catalyst for the win.

    And if you look at NFL history, guys with multiple rings aren’t immediately ranked higher than those with 1 or 0. Marino and Favre have 1 SB win between them and both are considered 2 of the best ever.

    Ben really should be removed from the list. He’s not elite; he’s good but he’s not even in the top 5.

  96. cnaigbirdhead says: Dec 17, 2010 3:19 PM

    If stats were all that mattered then Brett might be considered the best but he’s not even in alot of top 10′s. Other than 2007, Brady’s always done more with less than any active QB and he’s experienced the most success.

  97. Rosenthals Speling Instrukter says: Dec 17, 2010 4:14 PM

    @ masteel

    If we just based it on # of SB’s then you would say Marino is worse than Simms. (Others use the Dilfer argument too)

    A SB goes a long way (and should) but you have to factor in everything when deciding who is the best.

    Maybe I am saying this because I am a Charger fan with a QB with no rings.

    Just because Ben has more rings than Manning does not mean he is better. Especially when he does everything to lose on of those games.

    Brees took a team which was known for bags on their head and brought them to the top.

    Manning took a team that had been to an AFC title game only a couple years before.

    Brady did the same with a team who was in a SB only some 4-5 years earlier.

    Ben came to a team who just needed a QB who could play alright to succeed.

    But hey, all four QB’s have gotten the job done. In the next four years I expect Rivers to be part of that list with 2 SB’s.

    Stop Laughing :(

  98. mikemcsaint says: Dec 17, 2010 5:32 PM

    Opinions. There like #$%holes, everybody has one and they usually stink.

  99. smellmyface says: Dec 17, 2010 8:38 PM

    OK you people down there need to stop drinking the swamp water. First you say Brees beat Manning head to head so he is better…really? did you see manning or brees on defense? No you didnt thats the dumbest thing people always try to say. Second how about watching how manning runs the offence when he is on the field and the level he has played at every year and no he hasnt always had a team loaded with talent. Brady and Manning are on a level alone and then you can throw in Brees,Rodgers,Ryan,Rivers and so on.Come on people please stay out of the swamp.

  100. xli2006 says: Dec 17, 2010 10:21 PM

    How many years does PEYTON Manning have to play in the league before people spell his name right?

    Payton? Seriously, still with that?

    Walter Payton passed years ago, there isn’t another Payton right now besides maybe Sean Payton.

    It’s PEYTON, with an E.

  101. m111981 says: Dec 18, 2010 6:08 AM

    Clearly everyone is forgetting the one stat that matters most. Birthmarks to the face…..Bree’s handsdown

  102. pmm0455 says: Dec 18, 2010 10:52 AM

    Brees would have won the NFL MVP last year if we did not lose the 3 games at the end. Other than that he was better than Manning and Brady. This year:
    Brady then Manning/Brees

  103. nps6724 says: Dec 18, 2010 6:25 PM

    smellmyface says:
    Dec 17, 2010 8:38 PM
    Second how about watching how manning runs the offence when he is on the field and the level he has played at every year and no he hasnt always had a team loaded with talent.
    —————————

    The last time Peyton played on a team that WASN’T loaded with talent, he was a rookie. And even then he had Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk. This is the 1st year he had to rely on LESS THAN 2 1st-round Pro Bowl receivers and RBs.

    Give Brees or Brady Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, and Joe Addai for their entire careers and you’d see them putting up even better numbers than they already do, which is saying something. Hell, we saw how much better Brady could be with Moss instead of Givens, Patten, Brown, et al. And Brees has never had a WR on the level of Harrison, Wayne, or Moss. He’s had a great TE (Gates) and one of the best ever 7th-round WRs (Colston), but never a game-changer like those 3. Brees + a Harrison/Wayne/Moss-like WR = 45-50 TD passes like Manning and Brady had.

  104. m111981 says: Dec 19, 2010 1:08 AM

    All three QBs are clearly elite when compared to the rest of the league. Whatever stat you use to decide who is best can create a legitimate argument for all three guys. However one thing that was never really brought up in the comments were the conditions each player has had to play their games. Manning plays in a dome for a minimum of eight games a year, plus four extra games in the southern half of the US. Drew Brees has played in San Diego (warm weather) and New Orleans (Dome), which clearly gives those two quarterbacks a season long advantage for compiling more attractive stats. I imagine taking Brady’s stats in warm weather or dome games vs Manning/Brees OR taking Manning/Brees stats in cold weather and/or snow games vs Brady’s, you will see Brady has an edge. thoughts?

  105. bleedgreen71018222558 says: Dec 19, 2010 7:44 PM

    “m111981 says:
    Dec 19, 2010 1:08 AM
    All three QBs are clearly elite when compared to the rest of the league. ”

    —-

    Add Michael Vick to those three, he is an elite QB too.

  106. masteel says: Dec 20, 2010 11:14 AM

    @ nps6724

    You listed Marino as winning, he actually lost his only Super Bowl appearance so he is 0-1

    But I agree with you overall that so far Ben is not a superior QB. He is a winner – no doubt and has ‘it’ when it comes to big games when it matters. If I had to list who is top QB’s right now playing this season (and last few).

    Brady – Manning – Brees – Rivers – Ben

    Steeler Fan

  107. bradyisgod says: Dec 20, 2010 1:18 PM

    I was going to list the guys better than Suggs….but the hell with it. Can’t be bothered.

  108. rushmatic says: Dec 20, 2010 5:29 PM

    Tom Brady’s short pass stuff is overrated? Were all of you born in 2008?

  109. golonger says: Dec 20, 2010 9:10 PM

    Well………he’s half right…….both Brees and Brady are better than Manning. Manning’s lone piece of hardware was donated to him by his defense! and Manning is a big-game choker unlike the other two!

  110. golonger says: Dec 20, 2010 9:13 PM

    …and Mike Vick is NO elite QB……………sorry! Never has been, never will!

  111. imamanim40 says: Dec 20, 2010 10:39 PM

    isn’t it the other way around?? i mean, brady and manning beat suggs’s ravens on a consistent basis, and brees lost to them

  112. breeshasabush says: Dec 21, 2010 10:58 AM

    homelanddefense says:
    Dec 16, 2010 12:02 PM
    Suggs could really do himself a favor and close his mouth for once. Brees is a great QB, but he is not on the level of Brady or Manning yet……

    cantarguefacts says:
    Dec 16, 2010 1:49 PM
    Brees is not on the same level as Brady and Manning, he isnt even close. And what is with the people that say “Brees beat Manning head to head”?? I didnt realize Brees and Manning both doubled and played on defense.

    ——————————-

    How is Brees “not on their level yet” he has equal amount of rings as Manning, the only reason he doesnt have at least 2 MVP’s is bc of the Manning name. Manning has had WAAY more chances in the playoffs than Brees has and hes blown it every single time except for 2006. So how does he not compare to Manning?

    @cantarguefacts— Clearly no one is saying that Brees or Manning play defense but what they are saying is when it was time to play eachother in the biggest stage in football, BREES OUTPLAYED MANNING. Thats not biased or opinion, that is actual fact. Brees won his team a championship against Mannings team plain and simple. And if you say well that from an offensive point of view “well peyton cant play defense to help himself” ok he cant play defense but he can help his team by not throwing a pick 6 to end the game…ooops! so again HEAD TO HEAD (in a Manning league MVP year) Manning was outplayed by Brees (no pick 6′s, no picks at all). Brees set superbowl records that game so please tell me on what basis does Manning have an edge over Brees besides meaningless popularity contest league MVP’s?…. none! Brady has more of an argument bc he has 2 more rings but lately brady has had ten times more FLASHY fire power (randy moss 0ver 20 td in a single season) and still has no rings in that time to show for it. And even still after that 50 td season Brady is still chasing Brees in some categories, so to say that Brees isnt deserving to be named with brady is ridiculous. and LASTLY, ppl who keep lobbying for Ben – he beat the Seahawks (horrible stats and HINES WARD got the SB MVP) and BARELY the Cardinals (NO SB MVP in that one either) in the SB and he rapes women so his rings are meaningless being as Trent Dilfer couldve won those two games and you wouldnt consider him along brees brady manning would you? Troy P has more of an argument to be considered alongside Brees Brady Manning than Rapistberger does.

  113. bleedgreen71018222558 says: Dec 21, 2010 1:15 PM

    I guess golonger hasn’t watched any Eagles games lately. Coming back from 21 points down with 1/2 quarter left is the stuff that Joe Montana and John Elway did. If the Eagles win the Super Bowl he will cement his elite status for good.

  114. breeshasabush says: Dec 21, 2010 4:02 PM

    bleedgreen71018222558

    Really? Vick no matter if he wins 6 superbowls will never be considered a Montana, Elway, Namath, Manning, Brady, Brees, Foutts, Marino, Favre, Warner, Unitas, etc…. and dont pretend you dont know why he wouldn’t be. If (he wont but IF) he did win that amount of SB’s in 15 years when people talk about him it would sound like this.. “Michael Vick one of the most gifted atheletes to play in all of sports, won 6 superbowls but is most commonly remember for…” and if u think im wrong how do people speak of O.J. Simpson? “one of the greatest RB’s to ever play the game but is more widely known for…” NEVER and I mean NEVER throw his name in the hat with these CLASS ACT guys again because he doesn’t deserve it no matter how good he plays!

  115. stetai says: Dec 21, 2010 5:37 PM

    Peyton absolutely, Brady no.

  116. golonger says: Dec 21, 2010 10:29 PM

    Gee bleedgreen71018222558 ………so that makes him a great QB?????…….Michael Vick is an elite ATHLETE…NOT an elite QB, never has been. He is an elite athlete who has survived playing QB in a QB starved league.

  117. obsession55 says: Dec 22, 2010 12:02 PM

    Yea, well how did that Rex Grossman-led team get to the Super Bowl?? They BEAT DREW BREES AND THE AINTS!!

    Shut your mouth, who dats!

  118. getagrip10 says: Dec 22, 2010 7:43 PM

    I lost respect for everyone posting Brees is as god as or better than Brady or Brady is not good. Do people even watch the game or is it a bunch of moron haters? First of all the crap about his great Oline is bull, because Manning and Brees have been sacked less. Who has Brady won superbowls with or even this year other than Welker, who was mediocre before he came to the Pats. Brady makes everyone on the field better, Branch is a prime example. Brees loses Bush for a couple games and he throwing INTs left an right. People need to increase their football IQ before posting. I am not a Brady fan, but the guy can flat out play and only manning is close to him.

  119. johntonioholmes says: Dec 22, 2010 10:46 PM

    @belicheckyoself

    That’s exactly right. Let’s not overlook the fact the Belicheck knows how to craft a good gameplan and a system that utilizes the talents at hand.

  120. tomlovestroy says: Dec 23, 2010 9:47 AM

    Rapistberger has a couple of SBs, nobody is calling him the best. He may not be. However, I certainly fear him in the 4Q. I don’t fear Tom Brady in the 4Q. I fear the refs working in his favor.

    Brady’s Superbowls were given to him by the Tuck rule and the holding all the way down the field by the Patriot Defenders. His Superbowls are tainted even if you disallow the illegal videotaping.

    However…they talk about Terrell Suggs whining. I think Terrell is entitled to his opinion without it being called whining. Whining = I need everybody to agree that I am best and if they don’t, then cry like a baby.
    Look at Brady flopping when somebody gets close to him…Pretty easy to spot the diapers.

  121. golonger says: Dec 23, 2010 3:58 PM

    tomlovestroy – congrats, you get the award for one of, if not THE, most ignorant and moronic posts I have ever read on PFT…..I hope you are just kidding and aren’t really this stupid!

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