“However, we can’t contract out our military, at least the part the part that makes decisions on who we attack and why, and it can’t be left to a vote.”

You’re not getting it. No government means no nation, no target, and no military. If people living within a certain area wanted to hire someone to protect themselves and their own personal property, they could certainly do so. I know I personally have no need to invade other countries, and I don’t know anyone else that does, either. So the fact that you assume that a group of people living in a randomly-defined geographical area need to “make decisions on who they attack and why” just completely boggles my mind.

“We do need some Govt for the basic services of protection from foreign enemies.”

Unfortunately, you couldn’t be more wrong. It’s the government that creates this need, by creating those foreign enemies in the first place (not only is the government interfering in their affairs, but it’s making the citizens guilty by association) and giving those enemies a nice convenient target to attack. If the United States was simply a collection of many little communities, there’s no possible way an outside force could actually take them over without occupying all of them. But better still, there would be no good reason to randomly attack one community over another.

“Obamacare is NOT about saving money, it is about politcizing 1/6th of the economy.”

Of course it’s not about saving money, but our health care system is already heavily regulated, which is why it sucks so much. And health care certainly isn’t 1/6th of the entire freaking economy. Obamacare really won’t have a huge impact other than increasing the budget deficit a bit, a deficit which Obama’s already inflated drastically anyway, and health care costs, which are already ridiculously high. It seems like you just want to complain about Obamacare for some reason.

The financial policy of our government is so devastating and we’ve pushed it so far that I feel comfortable in saying that it likely cannot be corrected. Our government will dissolve much like the Soviet Union did. To that end, I’d like to see it happen as fast as possible, so I’m all for Obama pushing through any kind of legislation that results in even more rampant spending. I also hope that whoever gets elected next is even worse than him. Anyone who can run the country into the ground as fast as possible. I’m thinking Palin might actually be a good choice.

“We will have govt funded surveys for why their are more white doctors than black doctors.”

You do realize that the AMA directly controls who is allowed to become doctors, right? That’s part of the reason why health care is currently so expensive.

Why do we need government to provide fire, police, etc? I don’t understand this. You guys have to realize that you are making a statement: “we NEED government to provide specific services.” In order to support this statement, you have to show why government is more capable of providing these services than private industry is. Good luck with that.

You are half right and I am half wrong. We don’t need Govt to do fire and police. I agree we could actually contract that out and get better service. However, we can’t contract out our military, at least the part the part that makes decisions on who we attack and why, and it can’t be left to a vote. We do need some Govt for the basic services of protection from foreign enemies. I think we also need some basic services for helping the less fortunate: handicapped, etc. However, I agree with you..Any Govt Service will be 5 times more expensive than what could be done by private industry. ie. Cost per child for public education is 5 times that of private education.

This is the formula for why Obamacare will be an absolute disaster.

Obamacare is NOT about saving money, it is about politcizing 1/6th of the economy.

ie…Politicians will spend money and campaign for black votes because blacks die sooner than whites. We will have govt funded surveys for why their are more white doctors than black doctors. Everybody’s care will go down, costs will skyrocket and everything gets politicized. We can’t let Obama do this number on our economy.

mannyicey:

you live in a fairytale world. His approval won’t touch 52 percent in the next two years. He’s lost the middle and anyone who is even mildly fiscal conservative will not be fooled this time.
——————————————————

Gallup poll from yesterday has Obama’s approval rating at 50%. It’s been increasing steadily since the mid-terms.

PFT only features most commented articles for a short period of time. When an article gets this many comments, it tends to drop off to just a couple of people. PFT gets more clicks and comments by throwing new articles up regularly as “most commented”.

It’s annoying, but it used to be even more aggravating before the switch to WordPress. At least I have easy access to the threads I comment on the WordPress dashboard.

“All animal lovers and anyone with a shred of decency should boycott all Eagles games.”

Why? Just because I’m an animal lover, I should ignore my own opinions and go along with whatever you say?

“Did Mike Vick give dogs a second chance as they lay there whimpering for mercy?”

Is Michael Vick a dog? Can you comprehend the difference between a dog and a human?

“Take a look at photos of the mercy Mike Vick showed the dogs.”

And? Wait, am I supposed to respond to your appeal to emotion as if it’s not a logical fallacy?

“The Bible says…”

Okay, you’re done.

I DID say that I support NO government. As the saying goes, “There’s no government like NO GOVERNMENT.”

“The goal is not zero government. The goal is limited govt. We of course need: Fire, Police, Army, Navy, etc.”

The problem with limited government is that it’s virtually impossible to prevent it from expanding. The US is a great example of the resounding failure of minarchy. It seems as though it takes nothing short of total failure of an extremely socialized economy for people to wake up and start reigning government back in, much like what happened in the Czech Republic.

The government, even a limited one, is also STILL maintaining a coercive monopoly in whatever sectors it is involved in. Why do we need government to provide fire, police, etc? I don’t understand this. You guys have to realize that you are making a statement: “we NEED government to provide specific services.” In order to support this statement, you have to show why government is more capable of providing these services than private industry is. Good luck with that. Part of the reason I’m an anti-statist is that I’ve yet to hear a convincing, coherent argument that supports this statement.

I’ve worked in the government, I’ve served in the military, I’ve used all kinds of public and private services. I always see the same thing: the government option is the more wasteful, expensive, and lower-quality of the two.

“I think a lot of intelligent people go through the phase you are in.”

Lysander Spooner, Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises… yeah, there’s at least a couple extremely intelligent individuals.

“But you have to extensively look through history and even the present to know that we need government.”

No, you don’t. In fact, if you actually look through history, you’ll see a lot of evidence that shows that governments are more destructive than they are helpful. Besides, I feel obligated to point out that you’re making a very strong claim that you have left completely unsupported.

“Look at current countries with smaller or virtually no governments and compare their economies, and people’s wellbeing to that of countries with bigger more powerful governments.”

Okay, I pick the Czech Republic. Let me show you how this “supporting your argument” thing works:

In 1990, Czechoslovakia was about 97% government-controlled. It was the the MOST socialized government of any country in the Warsaw Pact. By 1995, the Czech Republic (which is 2/3 the size of the old Czechoslovakia) had become 80% privately-owned. Since then, the government has further increased privatization, and the Czech Republic has become one of the most developed, stable, and prosperous economies of the post-Communist states. Quality of life in the Czech Republic has drastically improved.

“Look at states here in America. Look at the most (forgive the phrase) libertarian states compared the least.”

Why? That has nothing to do with anything. This is the same argument people attempt to make when they say “look at what the free market in the US has gotten us”. Invariably, they point to health care as a shortcoming of the free market, completely ignoring the fact that health care is HEAVILY regulated by the government.

The simple fact is that the “most libertarian” states are hardly libertarian at all, just like health care isn’t private and the US market isn’t free.

I think the reality is that you have no idea what I am, what I believe, why I believe it, or even the factual nature of your own arguments. I stated above that I’m an anti-statist. This is not a conclusion that I arrived at with a dart board. It took me a good two decades of learning and adopting a variety of different ideologies. However, unlike you, I’m not arrogant enough to think that I know enough information to positively assert that I’m absolutely right. My opinions constantly change as I learn new information, so while I expect that I will continue maintaining similar beliefs, I don’t discount the possibility that this will change in the future.

I suggest you open your mind up to the wealth of information that is out there. Read some Rothbard, Mises, and Spooner. Change your mind if you want, I don’t care, but just expose yourself to the ideas, so you at least understand what you’re arguing against.

Did Mike Vick give dogs a second chance as they lay there whimpering for mercy? No, all dogs who didn’t perform well were executed in a brutal manner.
Take a look at photos of the mercy Mike Vick showed the dogs.
http://www.animalrightsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/loveofdogs31.jpg
http://www.jollybengali.net/theconfluence/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gypsy.jpg

The Bible says, “You will reap what you sow” which basically means what goes around comes around. He should receive the same kind of mercy. He should stop being such a cry baby as if he is a victim and take what he has done like a man. Mike Vick will not change but find a way to continue dog fighting under the radar of officials. I say this because for years he participated in dog fighting and only stopped because he was caught. Even his own Father urged him to stop in 2001 and he refused. If a Son will not listen to his own Father, then who will he listen to?
Boddie told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that around 2001, Vick was staging dogfights in the garage of the family’s home in Newport News and kept fighting dogs in the family’s backyard, including injured ones which the father nursed back to health. Boddie said his son had been urged to not engage in the activity, but continued. He stated: “This is Mike’s thing. And he knows it.”

If Obama wants Mike Vick to have a second chance then let the government give it to him. Recruit him in the military so he can observe REAL men and women doing REAL work and not for the absurd amounts Mike gets for tossing a ball around.

My first election I voted for Jimmy Carter. It is amazing how time on the unemployment line clears your head. Now that plenty of others have the same experience with Jimmy Carter II, I am pretty sure we won’t have to suffer thru another 4 years. I remember later graduating to the Ronald Reagan economy. Back then I was called a Reagan Democrat, today since it is Obama I am called a racist.

Nobody has proposed no Government. However, that is a typical liberal move. Obama does that all the time. Let me tell you what the opposite of my opinion is. He will then completely misrepresent the competing view and then debate that instead.

We can’t survive with no government. The goal is limited government.

Have you been to an airport lately? Have you seen the change in the level of service since the Government took over the security getting into the airport? It is very much like a Post Office environment. The workers are more interested in what their co-workers are saying. They make you wait until they are finished with their conversation. They are laughing as they inspect the x-ray machine. It is a joke that we are more secure now than when it was originally contracted out.

Another example..Our schools

Another example……Post Office

Another Example…Any Govt agency and I have worked with most of them. When I go inside a commercial account…everybody is busy. They are constantly checking their blackberry. I typically meet with 4 people that are extremely competent. Nobody arrives early, but just on time. When I meet with the Govt…I expect 6 people to show up and instead 20 show up – 10 Government workers and then each has a consultant that actually knows what is going on and is doing their job. They arrive 30 minutes early.

The goal is not zero government. The goal is limited govt. We of course need: Fire, Police, Army, Navy, etc.

I dread the typical call to a health insurance company. ie. trying figure out what would be covered for medical procedures with Govt workers. Of course, everybody would have Private Insurance as well, so their typical first response will be…check with the Private insurance company first to see what they cover, then call us back – after waiting 40 minutes on hold.

I do disagree with two things. First, comparing any president to George Washington is just unfair. That’s like saying “well Colt McCoy is not Joe Montana, so he sucks.”

Let me explain when I compare to George Washington…George Washington realized how corrupting Govt’s can be. He lived thru that oppression. He didn’t want the job of President, and he was very well off and didn’t need all the torment of leading an army of the US that was still had plenty of pro-Britian. Washington knew why Govt had to be restricted.

Andrew Polk is another of my heroes. He was determined to only be President for 4 years and change things for regular citizens.

Compare that to Barack Obama. If you have ever read Audacity of Hope.. He believes the long term career Politicians are what we need.

From my perspective, understanding and potentially limiting the power of the Federal Govt, that is why Barack is one of the WORST presidents. He actually thinks he knows best and Govt Solutions are best. He knows nothing.

I am definitely against Barack supporters that have nothing to add, except to “CLING” to the race card. From my perspective I know more non-blacks in that category. However, I would definitely say those people aren’t even qualified to vote.

“The entire concept of a government is a coercive monopoly… a legalized mafia.”

I had a pretty good idea of your beliefs based on your earlier posts, and this last one confirms that you are who I thought you were (I hope someone gets the joke in that last sentence).

I think a lot of intelligent people go through the phase you are in. I obviously don’t know anything about you so I can’t tell if this is still a phase or you have just accepted this line of thinking. Either way, I hope it passes.

The idea of no federal government, or even no government at all can seem appealing. Small government as well. A lot of people in America tend to be individualist and that can easily cross over to arrogance. We think (particular those of us who are a little more clever than others) that we can could make a perfect life for ourselves without any government help.

But you have to extensively look through history and even the present to know that we need government. Take a lot of time to look at past governments and their success and failures and compare those to their size. Look at current countries with smaller or virtually no governments and compare their economies, and people’s wellbeing to that of countries with bigger more powerful governments. Look at states here in America. Look at the most (forgive the phrase) libertarian states compared the least. If you approach this with the correct attitude, and ensure your research is complete, I think you may, at the very least, rethink your opinion. If you are confident I am wrong, then you should try as hard as you can to prove me right. If you are secure in your beliefs, then you should work to try to build my side up as much as possible, so, if you maintain your views, you can say you are correct beyond all shadow of a doubt.

I’d like to see the Fed abolished, but I’d also like to see the government allow people to use private currency. I doubt either will happen though, barring a total economic collapse of the government.

As far as oil is concerned, I don’t think my lifestyle would have to change drastically to accommodate the scenario in which the US stays out of Middle East affairs.

As long as you believe the authority is the truth instead of truth the authority there will never be peace.

One question for you there anti-truther (liar?), who funded the 9/11 attacks?

Yeah… never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance. Our government is clearly too incompetent to pull off such a scheme.

Question is, would you be willing to give up your lifestyle in order for the Middle Eastern people to control what, by property rights, belongs to them? That is, if you believe the U.S. is wrong in that they are forcing themselves upon the Middle East in order to gain the oil rights.

Ah yes, that is the question. Do you believe the “war on terror” is wrong? would you rather the alternative

I said that Lincoln was the worst because of ALL his actions, but primarily for setting the precedent and allowing all the presidents that succeeded him to do what they’ve done. While Lincoln didn’t directly cause the Iraq war, it wouldn’t have been possible without him.

“I don’t remember a stellar President.”

I agree. I think that the best job a president could possibly do would be to do absolutely nothing. But I’m an anti-statist, so my opinions aren’t very popular.

“It is a power grab.”

ALL ideological wars are power grabs. The entire concept of making war against an idea is completely idiotic. The only reason anyone would start such a thing is if they had something to gain.

You’re either missing the point, or incorrectly summarizing things. Lincoln was racist as most people were at the time. Abolition had essentially nothing to do with racism.

Also, I take strong exception to the fact that you summarized my carefully-worded explanation of the Civil War as a “land grab”. Not once did I mention anything about taking land, primarily because the Civil War had nothing to do with it.

Whether Lincoln actually desired abolition or not is questionable itself, but it’s a rather moot point since abolition wasn’t the goal of the Civil War anyway.

They all knew it was coming. They wanted it to come, they provoke it, they lie about it, they do it. War = Money. Trillions, Quadrillions.

Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a pict is a Pink Floyd song. Yes, that’s the title. And I knew it would annoy someone who went to type it in a reply, you just made my day.

Well said regarding Lincoln’s time period. By today’s standards people like Mark Twain, Ben Franklin, and even George Washington would be considered horribly racist.

I do disagree with two things. First, comparing any president to George Washington is just unfair. That’s like saying “well Colt McCoy is not Joe Montana, so he sucks.”

Second, what do you have against the post office? It’s obviously not perfect, but you pay 30 cents for a stamp and send a letter from California to North Carolina in a week. What the heck are you complaining about?

Lets save our healthcare debates until we actually see what this bill does. Our previous system was terrible. That doesn’t mean this one will be better, but saying it’s worse now is just arrogant (because you’re implying you can magically see into the future).

If you are going to insult Obama at least pick things that have taken their full effect so we already know whether he was right or wrong. But speculating about how bad he is two years in is insanely unfair.