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Toronto mayor wants an NFL team

Colts Bills Football AP

New Toronto Mayor Rob Ford says he sees the NFL in his city’s future.

Canada’s CBC News reports that Ford and his brother, Toronto City Council member Doug Ford, are keen on getting an NFL franchise north of the border — and not just once a season, as the Buffalo Bills currently play.

“How can we bring tourism to Toronto? How can we create jobs? Great fit would be an NFL team,” Ford told CBC News.

A major sticking point would be a stadium: Ford acknowledged that the Rogers Centre, where the Bills play one regular-season game a year, wouldn’t suit an NFL team for eight regular-season games a year. And he said the taxpayers wouldn’t build the NFL a new stadium.

And yet the city thinks its sheer size (Toronto’s population is 2.5 million) can attract the NFL.

“The NFL cannot ignore the fourth-largest market in North America,” Doug Ford said.

Try telling that to Los Angeles.

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87 Responses to “Toronto mayor wants an NFL team”
  1. facebook.com/joesimmonscomic AKA Slow Joe (Bucs fan) says: Jan 22, 2011 1:59 PM

    “A major sticking point would be a stadium: Ford acknowledged that the Rogers Centre, where the Bills play one regular-season game a year, wouldn’t suit an NFL team for eight regular-season games a year.”

    For example, they spelled “Center” wrong again.

  2. dan7800 says: Jan 22, 2011 2:01 PM

    I’ve been to the Bills games in Toronto. No way the NFL would every fly there.

    1) As stated in the article, the Rogers Centre is not a viable NFL stadium.
    2) They have trouble giving tickets away up there. Toronto is about hockey and the CFL. Imagine if the CFL decided to start a team in the US. Would go?

  3. lennydpocketqb says: Jan 22, 2011 2:03 PM

    Yes they can Dougie.

  4. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 2:20 PM

    Dear Rob Ford …

    Toronto is a Canadian city. Ours is a U.S. league, not a North American league. You have Canadian football. Enjoy.

    Dear Roger Goodell …

    I’m sure you’re salivating. Hope you choke on it.

    Sincerely,

    A fan of the National (as in the nation of the United States) Football League

  5. hobartbaker says: Jan 22, 2011 2:27 PM

    Toronto is tired of being Buffalo Bill’s faithful Canadian companion. He wants his own series.

    “Get em up, Scout! **** you Kemo Sabe. You and the horse you rode in on.”.

  6. ErikW65 says: Jan 22, 2011 2:47 PM

    Since NFL team owners claim not to be making enough money, one of them must be willing to sell his team to the city of Toronto, right? Right?

    Well, considering even the city of Green Bay earned $10,000,000 profit in ’09, maybe not…

  7. footballgiants says: Jan 22, 2011 2:47 PM

    Why isn’t the Skydome, er Rogers Centre unsuitable for an NFL team? Is it due to the Jays and Argonauts schedules? It seems like it has been used for football for years, including college bowl games.

  8. conseannery says: Jan 22, 2011 2:49 PM

    I’m in Miami and I’d like an NFL team, too.

  9. mlenenski says: Jan 22, 2011 2:59 PM

    I don’t know why we don’t invade Canada and simply annex all of Canada within 100 miles of our border…..going through customs is such a hassle.

    Who knows , maybe they have weapons of mass destruction that we need to get rid of.

    Where’s George Bush when you need him?

  10. billsfansinceday1 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:10 PM

    Take a hike Toronto. No way !

  11. dan7800 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:13 PM

    Why isn’t the Skydome, er Rogers Centre unsuitable for an NFL team? Is it due to the Jays and Argonauts schedules? It seems like it has been used for football for years, including college bowl games.

    ***************************

    Scheduling has little to do with it. The seating layout inside the stadium is not really suited very well for football. It is a baseball stadium (Yes I know in theory, football can be played there.)

    If it were ranked as an NFL stadium, I would have to think that it would be dead last.

    Although, as a Bills fan I do I have to say that I am spoiled by the tailgating atmosphere at the Ralph.

  12. dbellina says: Jan 22, 2011 3:17 PM

    How does the Toronto Vikings sound?

  13. canadianvikingfaniii says: Jan 22, 2011 3:21 PM

    @Deb

    No one watches the CFL except the bumpkins in the prairie provinces.

    I would love the NFL to have a team in Canada, preferably the Vikings so they don’t have to go to L.A. and it’s still cold up here. I just wouldn’t want the team to be in Toronto, that is a cess pit city full of dirtbags. With horrible traffic.

  14. edenprairiemn says: Jan 22, 2011 3:22 PM

    NO, NO, NO! Bad idea, BAD IDEA!
    I am sick to death of Mr. Goodell trying to change the NFL. Granted, there are a few changes that have been for the positive, but what makes the NFL special, is that each state/city has their own team and it’s a sense of pride that you can not get this anywhere else other than the good ol’ U.S. of A. It’s bad enough that the NFL plays games in the U.K. and Canada. Having an expansion team there would almost ruin football for me.

    Stop trying to steal the NFL from us. This is not a one world order where every terrritory is the same. F**k off Canada, Europe, and any other country that tries to steal away our pride and glory. P.S. Mr. Goodell, I request and demand your resignation.

  15. canadianvikingfaniii says: Jan 22, 2011 3:25 PM

    facebook.com/joesimmonscomic AKA Slow Joe (Bucs fan) says:
    Jan 22, 2011 1:59 PM
    “A major sticking point would be a stadium: Ford acknowledged that the Rogers Centre, where the Bills play one regular-season game a year, wouldn’t suit an NFL team for eight regular-season games a year.”

    For example, they spelled “Center” wrong again
    —————————————- American ignorance at its finest. I’m going to give you a pass though since you are a Bucs fan, and you never get to see your team on television. I feel bad for you bro.

  16. commandercornpone says: Jan 22, 2011 3:34 PM

    factor in competition with its own CFL…

    requirement for domes due to being extremely cold in nov-feb…

    could some canadian cities support an NFL team… perhaps. Toronto. maybe Montreal. just maybe Vancouver. i think that’s the limit. they would have to have 2…

    some of the others couldnt keep NHL teams. Quebec… Winnipeg… Edmonton barely hung on to theirs, and they have won scads of championships.

    and when the CFL expanded south into America for one year, it lasted just that long. one year.

    if any teams moved up there, it would likely just be a way station till they end up in LA or San Antone.

  17. joecoz17 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:41 PM

    you can’t even tailgate in toronto because you can’t have an open alcohol beverage outside

    how LAME is that?

    F toronto

  18. saxonsaint says: Jan 22, 2011 3:43 PM

    The notion that Toronto doesn’t have the population to support an NFL team is off base. The greater Toronto area had over 5.5 million people. That’s more than the majority of current NFL cities.

    Also, the notion that the NFL would not fit in with Canadian culture is ridiculous. 30% of the Bills season ticket holders are Canadian. I for one make the two hour drive around the lake to watch football with the good people of Buffalo. I do it through rain, sleet, and snow. And it’s for the love of the game.

    Toronto can and will support it’s own team but it must have it’s OWN team. The Bills belong to Buffalo. Their move to Toronto would result in disaster.

  19. dempsey63 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:45 PM

    The CFL used to have a franchise in Baltimore, but the NFL refused to allow it to call itself the Baltimore CFL Colts.

    The NFL claimed to own all football rights to the name Colts, and it prevailed in court. As a gesture of goodwill, the NFL said it would allow the CFL team to use Stallions or Bombers, two nicknames that failed to make the cut when St. Louis and Baltimore lost out to Jacksonville and Charlotte in the expansion derby.

    Say what?! The NFL was going to use the name Bombers? Did Winnipeg have any say in that? And could the CFL have gotten any more confusing with the Bombers and the Blue Bombers and the Roughriders and the Rough Riders and the Ruffriderzz and the…

  20. Robert says: Jan 22, 2011 3:47 PM

    I love CFL play!

    Bring the CFL to Minnesota via when the Vikings leave!!

  21. xtb3 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:51 PM

    The annual completely worthless question to the NFL Commissioner coming again on the Friday Commissioner’s press conference just before the Super Bowl game.

    Montreal and Edmonton are both better football cities than Toronto. Both outdraw and will always outdraw Toronto for football.

    10 of the 11 biggest Canadian Football League attendences ever were in Montreal including the highest 9. All of the 24 most attended CFL games were held either in Montreal or Edmonton.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL_attendance

  22. sllib12 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:52 PM

    stick to your crap game of hockey.who knows maybe some day you will be as good as the russians.

  23. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 3:54 PM

    @canadianvikingfaniii …

    First, sorry I called Doug Ford by the wrong name in my post.

    I know you’re a dedicated Vikes fan, but it’s evil to move NFL teams from their homes and local fans. Instead of sucking up to the money boys in LA, Goodell should be trying to help the Vikings secure a stadium deal in Minnesota.

    It’s wonderful that the NFL has so many fans in Canada, Europe, Mexico, Australia and other parts of the world. I hope they continue to enjoy our game–as some Americans enjoy the CFL, Australian rules football, bullfighting, Gaelic Football, and other sports from other countries. But they don’t need to move their sports here and we don’t need to move ours there. And Goodell needs to stop chasing that pipe dream.

  24. xtb3 says: Jan 22, 2011 4:03 PM

    When a person from Toronto says “Canada” he means TORONTO! Which to them is ALL Canada is. Toronto to them is THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

    Well it is not Canada! Toronto is a terrible sports city now! The population there now more resembles south east Asia than it does North America.

    The Blue Jays don’t draw anymore! The hockey team hasn’t won since Canada Day was made a holiday in 1967. The Raptors will never compete.

    Hell, they couldn’t even support the Buffalo Bills couple of games there!

    Toronto does not deserve a team. The same numbers watcth ch the games on Buffalo American TV anyway.

  25. tomnickle says: Jan 22, 2011 4:05 PM

    @ Dan8700

    Toronto is not about the CFL and Hockey. You have no clue what you’re talking about. The CFL is a dying league in Canada because it’s terrible football to watch. Three down, 105 yards and twelve men on each side of the ball. Not to mention one point plays.

    The people of Canada want and would support an NFL team and Toronto has huge corporate dollars and more than sufficient media coverage to keep a team viable.

    As to your point about hockey. Toronto is a thriving hockey market for these reasons. The Leafs have a corporate crowd, the Saturday night game is the only day of the week where true fans come close to the amount of suits entertaining potential business partners or clients.

    With the right owner and a sufficient stadium Toronto could hold a top 5 team in the NFL in terms of profitability.

  26. hawks1205 says: Jan 22, 2011 4:08 PM

    dan7800 says:
    Jan 22, 2011 2:01 PM
    I’ve been to the Bills games in Toronto. No way the NFL would every fly there.

    1) As stated in the article, the Rogers Centre is not a viable NFL stadium.
    2) They have trouble giving tickets away up there. Toronto is about hockey and the CFL. Imagine if the CFL decided to start a team in the US. Would go?

    ————-

    You’ve been to a Bills game at the Rogers Centre, not a football stadium, poor atmosphere, over priced tickets. Rogers Corporation is paying $9.75M to host each game and are trying to get some of their money back, they are charging more then double the average of what the Patriots charge (who have the most expensive tickets in the NFL), people don’t want to pay those kind of prices to watch the Bills. $95 was the cheapest ticket you could get for 30 rows up on the 500 level behind the end zone. Want to sit on the 100 level? $265 each. 50 yard line! $525. People wouldn’t pay those kind of prices for a horrible product in any city.

    The city of Toronto is one of the largest corporate markets in the world! They could sell hundreds of luxury boxes, club seats, you name it. There is also the kind of money needed to build a brand new state of the art stadium in the hands of the two potential owners. MLSE the company that owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Raptors along with other local teams and venues is worth over $1.75 billion (in 2008, much higher now, reportedly close to $2 billion, and widely recognized as the most successful sports management company in the world.

    Bottom line Toronto could easily support an NFL team, and they could do it better then Buffalo, Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego, Oakland, Tampa Bay, and probably a few others.

  27. VonClausewitz says: Jan 22, 2011 4:10 PM

    Toronto would be a great fit for an NFL team. The number of NFL fans here is crazy. The CFL isn’t really an obstacle. Plus we’re so used to high ticket prices it would be a cashcow. The Bills experiment was a SNAFU from the start and is in no way indicative of how the NFL would go down.

  28. micker716 says: Jan 22, 2011 4:32 PM

    “The NFL cannot ignore the fourth-largest market in North America,”
    Why not? They’ve always been ignored by the NFL. What’s changed? Football is our national sport and the NFL it’s premier league. Do you honestly believe any NFL team is going to relocate to provide an off-season diversion until the Maple Leafs season begins?

  29. phillybirds says: Jan 22, 2011 4:39 PM

    A mayor? Really?

  30. pdxbolt says: Jan 22, 2011 4:39 PM

    canadianvikingfaniii says:
    Jan 22, 2011 3:21 PM
    @Deb

    No one watches the CFL except the bumpkins in the prairie provinces.

    I would love the NFL to have a team in Canada, preferably the Vikings so they don’t have to go to L.A. and it’s still cold up here. I just wouldn’t want the team to be in Toronto, that is a cess pit city full of dirtbags. With horrible traffic.

    *******************************************

    Hear that Joetoronto???

  31. picksix401 says: Jan 22, 2011 5:03 PM

    gonna be pretty embarrassing for this Toronto pseudo-expansion team to fight for its life in the A(merican)FC East… OH WAIT, we already see it 162 games a year from the blue jays!

  32. joetoronto says: Jan 22, 2011 5:06 PM

    The Rogers Centre (formerly the Skydome) has lots of luxury boxes and is therefore too small, it doesn’t meet the minimum seat requirement of the NFL.

    The new mayor is a Conservative and a huge football fan. He has the blessing of the Feds, also Conservatives. Toronto’s old mayor was against an NFL team.

    The plan for the new stadium consists of 100% private money.

    The 2.5 million population stated for Toronto is just within city limits, the GTA is well over 5 million and the new stadium will be built in the suburbs, in Downsview.

    Bills fans that come here for a game don’t understand one important thing, they judge the crowds without considering that there is NO home team.

    When Toronto gets it’s own team it will be a different story.

    The big loser in all this will be the Bills, who currently get 10′s of thousands of Canadian fans at their games in Buffalo and here.

    There’s no recession here, we have the money and the interest.

    Bring it on.

  33. xthechargersareherex says: Jan 22, 2011 5:22 PM

    Take the entire nfc west. we dont need em

  34. recon163 says: Jan 22, 2011 5:22 PM

    @deb and edenprairiemn:

    Wow. Can you get anymore ignorant?

  35. canadian52niner says: Jan 22, 2011 5:27 PM

    Wow, those are some pretty anti-Canadian remarks.

    Hmmm … you seriously would rather have a British team? really?

    And for the Dumbass that thinks you should invade us, better make sure it is Summer Honcho because you guys shut down your cities for 2 inches of snow … you wouldn’t last 10 seconds in our Winter … its a dry Winter.

    What happened last time you tried that? Hmm, I am betting your GED equivalent education didn’t explain the war of 1812 did it?

  36. facebook.com/joesimmonscomic AKA Slow Joe (Bucs fan) says: Jan 22, 2011 5:41 PM

    @canadianvikingfaniii: It was a joke. The ignorance was not seeing it as a joke, but rather an indictment of American intellect.

    Your post was an indictment of Canadian humor. :-)

    P.S. I saw every Bucs game. I live just below the blackout zone. Nice and sunny here, too. How’s Canada?

  37. richm2256 says: Jan 22, 2011 5:54 PM

    Send them the Chargers ….. they’ll never watch anything but hockey after THAT.

    Seriously though, Canada has an entire LEAGUE to itself. Let them watch that. I have no idea why Roger Goodell wants to try and export NFL football to places that are soccer Meccas, either. Can’t be for the money, there won’t be as much there as he may think. NFL footballis American Pie and Old Glory. Leave it be. This fan has no interest in the London Monarchs or the Berlin Bombers (hey, I kinda like that one!) even if they’re stocked with NFL players.

  38. gobills716 says: Jan 22, 2011 6:01 PM

    The Second Battle of Ridgeway is on the horizon. Arm yourself Buffalo!! You can infiltrate us with your Tim Hortons, you can make us all drink Labatt’s, you can crowd our malls and department stores, you can infiltrate our arena on game nights, you can gradually change the spelling of ‘Center’ throughout the region, but you can NEVER take our Football !!!

    The Bills Toronto Series has proven that Toronto cannot support a NFL franchise. If the NFL put a team in Toronto (and took one from Buffalo) the league would instantly become a joke. The last thing this league needs is another corporate dominated franchise. There aren’t too many franchises left where the common man can take their kid to the game without taking out a mortgage.

    Toronto is a Leafs city PERIOD. Go to a Blue Jays game sometime, pathetic. 20,000 fans for a Yankees game. That’s exactly what it would be like if the NFL moved the Bills to Toronto. Do you think Toronto could sell out one game when the team hasn’t made the playoffs in 10 years? This would be one of the all time worst franchise relocations. Maybe worse than Winnipeg to Phoenix.

    –GO BILLS

  39. didiwags says: Jan 22, 2011 6:03 PM

    LA does not deserve a team!! I dont get why the NFL has not gotten that hint yet!! How many chances does one city get?? As for Toronto…. like US fans want to go through customs just to go see a game!!!

  40. joetoronto says: Jan 22, 2011 6:12 PM

    xtb3 says: Jan 22, 2011 3:51 PM

    The annual completely worthless question to the NFL Commissioner coming again on the Friday Commissioner’s press conference just before the Super Bowl game.

    Montreal and Edmonton are both better football cities than Toronto. Both outdraw and will always outdraw Toronto for football.

    10 of the 11 biggest Canadian Football League attendences ever were in Montreal including the highest 9. All of the 24 most attended CFL games were held either in Montreal or Edmonton.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL_attendance

    *******************************************************
    Who cares about the CFL, xtb3?

    We’re talking about the NFL and the only city in Canada that can handle an NFL team is Toronto.

    This is where it’s at, always has been, always will be.

    Deal with it.

  41. gobills716 says: Jan 22, 2011 6:29 PM

    hawks1205 says:
    Jan 22, 2011 4:08 PM

    The city of Toronto is one of the largest corporate markets in the world! They could sell hundreds of luxury boxes, club seats, you name it. There is also the kind of money needed to build a brand new state of the art stadium in the hands of the two potential owners. MLSE the company that owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Raptors along with other local teams and venues is worth over $1.75 billion (in 2008, much higher now, reportedly close to $2 billion, and widely recognized as the most successful sports management company in the world.

    Bottom line Toronto could easily support an NFL team, and they could do it better then Buffalo, Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego, Oakland, Tampa Bay, and probably a few others.

    ——
    You’re an idiot if you really believe that. It’s not all about money buddy. All that corporate money has really turned the Blue Rays into a revenue producing machine. That corporate money packed them into the Sky Dome last year. 20,000 average, 26th in MLB. Wow!!! MLSE is worth so much money blah blah blah. WHO CARES? Long term success by a franchise is built off fan support NOT corporate dollars. Toronto has fan support for ONE team and the average fan can only dream of seeing a game in the ACC because the corporate Toronto. And you think the corporations are an asset?

  42. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 6:40 PM

    @recon163 …

    Could I be anymore ignorant?

    Well, Rocket Scientist, Canadians claim they’re tired of Americans treating them as United States North. They’re an independent nation and want their sovereignty to be respected. So why should they be awarded a franchise in an American sports league?

    What happens in baseball and hockey is irrelevant. This is football. The NCAA can’t produce enough elite talent–particularly at QB and some o-line positions–to support the current 32 teams. If the league keeps expanding, the quality of the product will be significantly diluted. And on principle I’m opposed to stripping an existing team from its longtime fans because league owners see bigger revenue prospects elsewhere.

    I didn’t say anything to insult Canadians, and Roger Goodell has earned my contempt. If you find my concerns about diluting the product and screwing longtime fans out of their franchises ignorant … too bad.

  43. gregbeau says: Jan 22, 2011 6:56 PM

    If Skydome isn’t a football stadium I dunno what it is, since it is a lousy baseball stadium too.

    Sad that a structure opened in 1992 is basically a piece of junk not suited for potential tenants and needs replacement after less than 20 years.

  44. cjspiller12 says: Jan 22, 2011 7:01 PM

    All you have to do is click on the link and read the 132 comments most in favor of people in the Toronto area NOT wanting an NFL franchise. Most feel that Americans are shoving our culture down their throats, when in reality they want to stay as Canadian as they can be. In my own opinion, I don’t think the NFL will work in Toronto at all. They don’t support the MLB’s Blue Jays or the NBA’s Raptors. Both are bottom of the barrel in attendance. The only thing they support are their Maple Leafs. To Joeintoronto….not gettinig off on the wrong foot with you for the New Year as we called a truce on slamming each other LOL…..but read the link and the comments. NFL won’t work their bro!!

  45. realitypolice says: Jan 22, 2011 7:06 PM

    @Deb;

    Really? Like the NATIONAL basketball association and Major League Baseball, who both have teams in Toronto?

    How about your Penguins with 16 Canadian players?

    We don’t agree often, but I’ve always given you credit for being more intelligent than the average poster here.

    But getting all jingoistic about a sports league having a team in Toronto is a position I would have expected from someone with some variation of “cowboy” in their screen name, not you.

  46. sarongas1999 says: Jan 22, 2011 7:08 PM

    @canadian52miner

    But the British did not doubt that the thinly populated territory would be vulnerable in a third war. “We cannot keep Canada if the Americans declare war against us again,” Admiral Sir David Milne wrote to a correspondent in 1817.

    It was lack of military composure by the Americans that saved canada not the competence of the canadians.

  47. robertveit says: Jan 22, 2011 7:24 PM

    Just as a random glimpse that is not meant to serve as a basis for generalization:

    Far more people seemed to follow the Seattle Seahawks than the Calgary Stampeders (CFL team) when I lived there a couple of years back.

    Honestly, I see more problems with players not wanting to play in Toronto. I remember reading that that was a problem with some potential players for the Raptors. Personally, I think Toronto is a wonderful city, but I could see a lack of familiarity hurting their ability to attract players.

  48. robertveit says: Jan 22, 2011 7:27 PM

    Lived in Calgary that is^

  49. ruggerlad says: Jan 22, 2011 8:17 PM

    joecoz17 says:
    Jan 22, 2011 3:41 PM
    you can’t even tailgate in toronto because you can’t have an open alcohol beverage outside

    how LAME is that?

    F toronto

    That is lame, we also cannot all carry guns to kill each other either how boring. We also cannot drink outside because our beer actually has alcohol in it light weights.

  50. nfl4ever says: Jan 22, 2011 9:18 PM

    I think Toronto could support a team, Metro Population is 5.5 Million, just a shade below Atlanta.

    The main reason that Rogers Centre is not viable is that it only holds roughly 50,000 for Football, the smallest NFL Venue is SF I think at about 60,000 and that’s the worst stadium in the league.

    While we’re at it lest get a team in Vancouver (BC Place holds 65,000) and Edmonton where Commonwealth Stadium holds 57,000 and could probably be expanded and Montreal at Olympic Stadium (66,000).

    Imagine games in Edmonton in late December? it would make Minnesota seem like Miami.

    Seriously, one team in the biggest Canadian city is not a bad thing, but who goes there? because the league is perfect at 32 teams as it is.

  51. machomaniac says: Jan 22, 2011 9:19 PM

    Lmao @ all the hating losers in here

    Toronto is bigger and better than your city

    Toronto will have an NFL team

    And I’m from Chicago

  52. Spoonthis says: Jan 22, 2011 9:21 PM

    I think one family named Ford has proven to be enough for the NFL. The Mayor from Detroit is still hoping for an NFL team. The league being set at 32 teams is working quite well and does not need to dilute the talent anymore especially if they add 2 games. For me it has nothing to do with Toronto. GODell should figure out how to help the existing teams stay in the cities where they are already located.

    Why does Toronto want an NFL team when the current owners are crying about not making enough money?

  53. fonetiklee says: Jan 22, 2011 9:23 PM

    Wait wait wait, you can’t have an open beer while tailgating in Canada?

    Well, I’m not totally against a team in Canada. At least that wouldn’t result in teams from 8 time zones apart playing each other (looking at you, London).

  54. machomaniac says: Jan 22, 2011 9:24 PM

    Oh yeah and

    Toronto will obviously build a new stadium

    Toronto has teams in every other major sports league and their teams are all near the top in terms of profitability

    The NFL is inevitable in Toronto and it’s shocking they aren’t there yet

  55. recon163 says: Jan 22, 2011 9:45 PM

    @ Deb

    “Could I be anymore ignorant?”
    If you are asking me, I would say no you can’t. You have pretty much hit the limit here.

    “Well, Rocket Scientist, Canadians claim they’re tired of Americans treating them as United States North. They’re an independent nation and want their sovereignty to be respected. So why should they be awarded a franchise in an American sports league?”

    Wow that is an incredibly stupid argument. You don’t think they should have a team out of respect to their sovereignty? Wow, that is incredibly stupid.

    Wouldn’t it be more respectful to say that if they can compete and maintain a team, so be it?

    “The NCAA can’t produce enough elite talent–particularly at QB and some o-line positions–to support the current 32 teams. If the league keeps expanding, the quality of the product will be significantly diluted.”
    Yeah that is a real problem. The same argument has been posited for every expansion since 1920. And yet the game thrives and survives nicely. You obviously are searching for an excuse for your stupidity. You failed.

    “I didn’t say anything to insult Canadians . . .”
    Deb, you do this regularly. You post something insulting out of your ignorance and then state, “I didn’t mean to insult anyone.” You did it with people from LA and you are doing it with your jingoistic ugly American attitude towards Canadians. Let’s face it, you are insulting and ignorant.

    “If you find my concerns about diluting the product and screwing longtime fans out of their franchises ignorant … too bad.”
    Your concerns are ignorant, insulting, stupid, and quite frankly reflect poorly upon you. But you don’t care how stupid you look so you shouldn’t care when I point out whenever you make a stupid statement.

  56. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 9:51 PM

    @realitypolice …

    I’ll guess my 6:40 response to recon163 (three posts above yours) wasn’t up when you commented). Do wish these posts would come up faster. Think you’ll find my concerns are more practical than jingoistic.

    On principle, I’m opposed to moving sports franchises and have argued that vehemently (and I’m sure futilely) regarding L.A. And logistically I’m almost violently opposed to NFL expansion of any kind.

    Goodell is determined to expand internationally even though the NFL took a major financial hit with the World League. It simply will not work. If European/UK teams are part of the NFL, they must play Sunday-, Monday- and Thursday-night games plus night playoff games. Time differences will make that impossible. Tape delays are out of the question because outcomes will be available on the Internet. U.S.-based teams can’t possibly be expected to play Sunday in Europe and Thursday here. How could U.S.-based Wildcard teams be expected to travel to European teams that had home-field advantage? It’s too much of a disadvantage.

    No matter how enthusiastic the audiences in those countries, they are not large enough to support those teams week-in/week-out throughout the season. That is futbol country and will remain so no matter how many World Cup PR experts Goodell hires.

    Most important … who will populate these teams?? This is not a sport played by children around the world … and it can’t just be quickly incorporated into school systems. Ours is the only nation that has the infrastructure in place to produce players and we can barely produce enough quality players through the NCAA farm system to support our current 32 teams. If the league keeps expanding, the quality of play will suffer. It’s already suffering. And what if players drafted to European franchises don’t want to go there?

    Because of the limited number of elite players, I’m also opposed to further U.S. expansion–and of course, to expansion into Canada or Mexico. I think you have to look at these sports individually. Basketball, hockey, and baseball are played in many parts of the world, so there’s a greater talent pool. American football is a uniquely American sport. And you’ll find that those Europeans, Britons, Canadians, and Mexicans that already are fans have long supported existing American teams that they’re unlikely to just give up in favor of new franchises.

    Hope I’ve redeemed myself ;)

  57. commanmann says: Jan 22, 2011 10:04 PM

    Toronto has the worst fans in the world no matter what the population. They are not Rubes their sports snobs.

    Show up to Jays games in the 3rd inning, leave in the 7th.

    The Argos are not good enough, not worth. Bills are not elite enough for good attendance.

    They get 1 NFL game a year and they can’t show up… your really going to move the Vikes with 115 sell outs in a row and move ‘em to TO so they can have empty seats? Oh.. wise move.

    Why don’t you get a real hockey team first.

  58. commanmann says: Jan 22, 2011 10:07 PM

    @ gregbeau

    Opened before 92.

  59. machomaniac says: Jan 22, 2011 10:08 PM

    Also Toronto only supporting 1 team is a ridiculous statement

    Toronto has fanatical religious support 4 the leafs but they support ALL their teams when they’re good. The jays were terrible for a long time and people hated the GM with a passion. And before the lockout they drew 40,000+ a game. The Raptors have been in the top 10 in attendance nearly every year since their inception and the city’s MLS team has the best attendance in the league

    The NFL is 2nd in popularity in Toronto only to hockey cuz it is Canada after all

    When I moved there every Sunday just walking through any suburb you could hear games on and groups of people watching them, BBQing, and drinking beers

    The street I lived on, my neighbor was a die hard bills fan who had a trophy and pic of him in the bills program for being the bills #1 super fan, he had every single piece of bills memorabilia ever made. His wedding was even NFL themed and he had season tickets for 15 years

    Not to mention we had a neighborhood football pool with over 40 people

    People don’t support CFL football in Toronto because the NFL is better

  60. johnnystarr2000 says: Jan 22, 2011 10:23 PM

    All Americans are Idiots…

    Of course generalizations like this are useless. Toronto can support an NFL team regardless of what Americans say. The same Americans griping about how its their game wont even support their local teams. How else do you explain why US teams are looking to relocate anyway.

    And for all the people saying leaving leave the sport in the US – Well, its ironic a nation founded on capitalism can be so short sighted

  61. FinFan68 says: Jan 22, 2011 10:25 PM

    When an NFL franchise moves, it is devastating to those fans left behind and the communities take a huge financial hit. I would be against moving any team unless the franchise is in serious danger of folding. Expansion is not an option either as the game has been dilluted enough already. There is nothing wrong with Toronto but if one of the two scenarios above were to happen I would rather the team be based in a city such as LA, Las Vegas, San Antonio, etc.

  62. bobinpuertorico says: Jan 22, 2011 10:26 PM

    If the Bills ever leave Buffalo, then Toronto can have a team. However, if a team is put in Toronto while the Bills are still in Buffalo, then the loss of Canadian fans attending Bills games could be enough to kill the Bills. It is no different than if a NFL team was put in Vancouver B.C. and it took support away from the Seahawks.

  63. recon163 says: Jan 22, 2011 10:29 PM

    @ Deb

    “Think you’ll find my concerns are more practical than jingoistic.”
    No they are entirely jingoistic.

    “It simply will not work.”
    Are you a sports management specialist or engaged in the sports industry? Based on your postings, no. You have no clue about what you speak.

    “If European/UK teams are part of the NFL, they must play Sunday-, Monday- and Thursday-night games plus night playoff games. Time differences will make that impossible.”
    How does a time difference make it impossible to play the game? It does not.

    “Tape delays are out of the question because outcomes will be available on the Internet.”
    Still does not make it impossible to play the game. A 1pm start in London means an 8 am telecast in New York. A 1pm game in LA means a 9 pm telecast in London. A 6pm Sunday night game in London would be broadcast at 1 pm in NY and 10am in LA.

    “U.S.-based teams can’t possibly be expected to play Sunday in Europe and Thursday here.”
    Why not? Assume a 1pm London kickoff that ends about 3pm. Players are on the plane at 6pm GMT and back in New York by 7pm EST.

    “How could U.S.-based Wildcard teams be expected to travel to European teams that had home-field advantage? It’s too much of a disadvantage.”
    How do you know? What proof do you have of this? How you felt after your trip to visit Uncle Cooter in Pensacola?

    “No matter how enthusiastic the audiences in those countries, they are not large enough to support those teams week-in/week-out throughout the season.”
    Since you are the professional sports franchise expert, how many people are needed to support a team?

    “That is futbol country and will remain so no matter how many World Cup PR experts Goodell hires.”
    You obviously have not been to England. They are sport mad. And they wouldn’t appreciate you calling their national sport by its Spanish name. Just another example of your ignorance.

    “If the league keeps expanding, the quality of play will suffer. It’s already suffering.”
    That is laughable.

    “Because of the limited number of elite players, I’m also opposed to further U.S. expansion–and of course, to expansion into Canada or Mexico.”
    No your just opposed to it and look for reasons to do so.

    “Hope I’ve redeemed myself ;)”
    Not at all. You continue to be an ignorant jingoistic maroon.

  64. machomaniac says: Jan 22, 2011 10:30 PM

    Deb football is a uniquely NORTH American sport, not just American. The CFL is older than the NFL

  65. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 10:59 PM

    @recon163 …

    You want an NFL franchise in Toronto and I don’t. So you’ve called me ignorant, ignorant stupid, stupid, stupid, insulting, incredibly stupid–and thank God, realitypolice expanded your vocabulary with jingoistic. And my comments supposedly reflect poorly on me. Right. Tantrums are sooo adult :roll:

    It’s not an insult to Canadians to say I don’t support expanding the NFL to Canada. That’s like saying I’m insulting a three-year-old if I refuse to buy him a Happy Meal. (Trying to put things on a level you might comprehend. Yes, that was meant to insult you.)

    I wasn’t around in 1920 but don’t recall hearing any argument regarding a shrinking talent pool when the NFL expanded to include the Panthers, Jaguars, Texans, or new Browns. So I doubt that argument has been used since the beginning of the league. Anyone who follows the game, however, should understand that–unlike hockey, basketball, and baseball–the United States is the only resource for NFL players. It is not an unlimited resource.

    You can’t always get what you want. And the person who throws the loudest fit isn’t always right. Pity mommy didn’t tell you that.

  66. Deb says: Jan 22, 2011 11:13 PM

    recon163 …

    ROFL … you’re out of your mind if you think I’m read another infantile diatribe from some nut calling me all kinds of names because I don’t believe in Canadian expansion. See from the smiley that you’ve repeated my redemption comment. You fool … that was a specific reference to something realitypolice said. It has nothing to do with you or anyone else on this thread. I don’t care what a nut like you thinks of my posts :lol:

    @machomaniac …

    Yes, but it’s clear I’m discussing the NFL, and the NCAA is still the primary talent pool for NFL players. As I said, it’s wonderful that people around the world enjoy the NFL and that many Americans enjoy the cultural traditions and sports of other nations.

  67. freedomispopular says: Jan 22, 2011 11:20 PM

    If they’re gonna expand/move a team somewhere, I’d say Canada would be preferable to Europe.

  68. ArtModellsPimp says: Jan 22, 2011 11:21 PM

    Deb’s right. Goodell needs to go. The NFL is going to hell in a handbasket under his watch.

    Besides…I hate Eskimos.

  69. cjspiller12 says: Jan 22, 2011 11:24 PM

    machomaniac says:
    Jan 22, 2011 10:30 PM
    Deb football is a uniquely NORTH American sport, not just American. The CFL is older than the NFL
    ————————————————-
    Good try on that one, if you’re talking about rugby, then yes it’s older than the NFL. CFL was not technically founded until the late 1950′s, 1954 is often referred to as the start of the “modern era” of Canadian professional football. It is also considered to be the year the CFL was founded in substance if not in name. The first Canadian football teams played under the auspices of the Canadian Rugby Football Union (CRFU), founded in 1884. The CRFU was an umbrella organization that several leagues were part of. From the 1930s to the 1950s the two senior leagues of the CRFU (the Interprovincial Rugby Football Union and the Western Interprovincial Football Union) gradually evolved from amateur to professional leagues.

    If you’re talking about football and not rugby, then the NFL is “older” than the CFL. The history of the National Football League has roots spanning as far back as 1892 when former Yale All-American guard William Heffelfinger was paid $500 by the Allegheny Athletic Association to play in a game against the Pittsburgh Athletic Club, making him the first ever professional football player. However it wasn’t until 1920 that American football achieved a league of any true organization. The American Professional Football Association was formed on September 17, 1920 and included ten teams from four different states. However the APFA lasted only two seasons when it was reorganized on June 24, 1922 into the National Football League.

  70. footballisfun says: Jan 22, 2011 11:38 PM

    Hope they get one. Why don’t we give LA a NEW franchise, and give Toronto a NEW franchise. Wouldn’t disrupt the league balance, and could just assign them to an appropriate division.

  71. machomaniac says: Jan 23, 2011 12:03 AM

    Uh Deb, again, football is a NORTH American sport. People in Canada Aren’t just enjoying “our” sport, it is their sport too

    You don’t realize that people from north of the border can go to american schools lol Canadians play football in high school too sweetie

    There are plenty of Canadians in the NFL, even legendary football star bronko nagurski was Canadian in the 1920s

    The NCAA isnt the only talent pool, the CFL is as well, players such as Doug flutie, Warren moon, and Joe theissman came to the NFL through the CFL

  72. recon163 says: Jan 23, 2011 12:09 AM

    @recon163 …

    “You want an NFL franchise in Toronto and I don’t.”
    Never said I did. I said that if they can compete they should get one. You are the nationalist here who insists that no city except US cities (And only those deemed worthy by you.) should get a franchise.

    ” So you’ve called me ignorant, ignorant stupid, stupid, stupid, insulting, incredibly stupid–and thank God, realitypolice expanded your vocabulary with jingoistic. And my comments supposedly reflect poorly on me. Right. Tantrums are sooo adult :roll:”
    Your comments prove me correct. No matter how much you want it to reflect negatively upon me, bottom line, it is clear you are ignorant and stupid. You write things are ‘impossible’ but can’t explain why. You say foreign cities can’t support a franchise, but can’t explain which US cities can. It is clear, you just are speaking in an ignorant manner. You just don’t know what you are talking about.

    “It’s not an insult to Canadians to say I don’t support expanding the NFL to Canada.”
    It is not an insult to couch that in terms like “our game” and “National (as in the nation of the United States)”? What are you saying to Canadians? That they are not worthy? I don’t think the National Football League defines ‘National’ as you do. But you assume it does because it fits your asinine point of view.

    “Trying to put things on a level you might comprehend. Yes, that was meant to insult you.”
    Deb, if you need to explain an insult, then you probably are a person who needs them explained to you.

    “Anyone who follows the game, however, should understand that–unlike hockey, basketball, and baseball–the United States is the only resource for NFL players. It is not an unlimited resource.”
    The United States is not the ONLY resource for NFL players. There are foreign born players and there have been in the past. Quite frankly there will never be a significant number of foreign born NFL players unless the game is expanded internationally and is played beyond our borders. (Like baseball, basketball, and hockey have done.) So your argument against expanding the game beyond our borders limits the available talent pool.

    “You can’t always get what you want. And the person who throws the loudest fit isn’t always right. Pity mommy didn’t tell you that.”
    That is true, you can’t always get what you want. And the person who presumes, makes sweeping analogies, and generally stereotypes entire nations and cities is most likely wrong about anything they write. They cannot comprehend nuances and situational realities.

    Pity you lack the education to understand that. (Write back if you need that explained.)

  73. recon163 says: Jan 23, 2011 12:17 AM

    @ Deb

    “ROFL … you’re out of your mind if you think I’m read another infantile diatribe from some nut calling me all kinds of names because I don’t believe in Canadian expansion.”

    Deb you don’t believe in any expansion. You don’t believe in moving a franchise. You want things to stay exactly as they are now forever and ever. You are the unrealistic simpleton.

    “As I said, it’s wonderful that people around the world enjoy the NFL and that many Americans enjoy the cultural traditions and sports of other nations.”

    Deb you are such a hypocrite. People around the world can enjoy the NFL, but can’t have a team? The world can only enjoy ‘Merican sports as Deb will allow them. .

  74. backuppunter says: Jan 23, 2011 12:20 AM

    I can’t believe this Nascar in California, and USA Football in Canada.

  75. joe93955 says: Jan 23, 2011 12:43 AM

    Whhat they ought to do is get together with the NFL and and get the rules and the game the same and have a World Super Bowl.

  76. halftermguv says: Jan 23, 2011 1:07 AM

    Hey morons…knock it off. You’re picking on Canada? Really. I’ve had numerous business trips to Canada from the Maritimes to BC. Never once felt like I was in danger and always met really friendly people.

    Go to any Canadian city’s downtown and walk 15 blocks in any direction and you’ll be eating breakfast in a Tim Horton’s. Walk 15 blocks in almost any American city and you’ll be in a body bag by block 10.

  77. thedudesnotin says: Jan 23, 2011 1:53 AM

    @Deb

    Are you Irish-American by chance?

    I have no use for NFL Football in Toronto. I think it would do well for the first couple of years, as most new teams do in Toronto, more as a fad, then fade away,albeit I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop regarding Toronto FC. There fans still come out in droves even without making the playoffs thus far in their history.

    I have refused to pay the ticket prices for the Buffalo Bills games in Toronto, although the opponents thus far have been very low on the list of teams I want to see them play. Indy? Chicago? Pittsburgh? Pffft!! They surely can do better then that with the schedule..

  78. anthonyfromstatenisland says: Jan 23, 2011 5:10 AM

    San Antonio – an AMERICAN city with a population of 1,250,000 – has priority over Toronto to get the other expansion team besides Los Angeles (one new team means two new teams sooner or later because the NFL will never tolerate having an odd number of teams in the league indefinitely), if expansion is necessary to bring the NFL back to L.A.

    And here’s a challenging question:

    Name the largest city in the state of Ohio.

  79. playthedamngame says: Jan 23, 2011 6:39 AM

    I think Canada should get a shot at having a football team. Why L.A. is even being considered is beyond me. They had two teams already with the Rams and Raiders and couldn’t keep them.NFL should focus on getting the 49ers or the Chargers a new stadium not building one for L.A.
    I do believe that making teams fly to Europe isn’t fair to the teams if Europe had enough interest in football they would still have teams there of their own.
    P.S. Goodell and smith get the deal done stop having a pissing match.

  80. ruggerlad says: Jan 23, 2011 7:38 AM

    anthonyfromstatenisland says:
    Jan 23, 2011 5:10 AM
    San Antonio – an AMERICAN city with a population of 1,250,000 – has priority over Toronto to get the other expansion team besides Los Angeles (one new team means two new teams sooner or later because the NFL will never tolerate having an odd number of teams in the league indefinitely), if expansion is necessary to bring the NFL back to L.A.

    Toronto has a population of 2,500,000. I am all for a team in Canada but not an expansion team. Jags, Titans, Bucs, Bengals, Bills spend very little money in comparison with other teams. A team in Toronto would out earn them and spend more to field a quality team. Montreal, Vancouver, and Edmonton or Calgary could also afford to run an NFL team.

    I would still remain a Dolphins fan but I would cheer for a Canadian team next if Steven Ross tanks the Dolphins franchise.

  81. Deb says: Jan 23, 2011 9:36 AM

    @machomaniac …

    Well, darlin’, you just don’t seem to grasp that I don’t give a flip what Canadians want. I. Oppose. Expansion. So if Iowans–who not only share the continent but also share the country–wanted to a franchise, I’d oppose that, too, just as I oppose the Los Angeles expansion.

    So … Warren Moon, Doug Flutie, and Joe Theisman grew up, played Pop Warner, high school, and college ball in Canada??? Wow.

    No, doofus, they are products of the limited resources of the NCAA farm system. They simply honed their skills in the CFL before coming to the NFL.

    You’re not too bright are you? But you’re leaps and bounds ahead of recon163. I see he’s still writing volumes to me despite being told that I won’t read them. Guess he’s just in love with his own words. Either that or the facility hasn’t yet delivered his morning dose of Secanol to calm him down.

    @thedudesnotin …

    Ach, there’s a wee bit of Irish in there ;)

  82. anthonyfromstatenisland says: Jan 23, 2011 9:58 AM

    But ruggerlad:

    What percentage of Torontonians actually care about football?

    If that percentage is less than half of the percentage of San Antonians who care about football – and that latter figure is as near as makes no difference to 100% – then San Antonio is a more suitable locale for an NFL team than Toronto.

  83. cjspiller12 says: Jan 23, 2011 10:23 AM

    @machomaniac says: The NCAA isnt the only talent pool, the CFL is as well, players such as Doug flutie, Warren moon, and Joe theissman came to the NFL through the CFL……….Ha!!! You forgot the best of all of them! The great Cookie Gilchirst. In 1956, he joined the Canadian Football League (CFL) with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, helping lead them to a 1957 Grey Cup victory. He spent one season with the Saskatchewan Roughriders, rushing for 1,254 yards. He then was traded to the Toronto Argonauts for Tex Schwierer, and played three years in Toronto.[1] In his six years in the CFL, Gilchrist was a divisional All-Star at running back five consecutive years from 1956 to 1960 (there were no All-Canadians selected in those years) and was also an Eastern All-Star at linebacker in 1960. In his CFL career, Gilchrist recorded 4,911 rushing yards, 1,068 receiving yards and 12 interceptions.

    Gilchrist then joined the roster of the Buffalo Bills of the fledgling American Football League. Incidentally, Gilchrist was Buffalo’s backup plan: they had actually drafted Ernie Davis to be the team’s franchise running back in 1962. Davis instead chose the NFL, but died of leukemia before ever playing a down of professional football. The Bills instead signed Gilchrist as a free agent. While with Buffalo, Gilchrist played fullback and kicked, though he insisted he could have played both ways. He was the first 1,000-yard American Football League rusher, with 1,096 yards in a 14-game schedule in 1962. That year he set the all-time AFL record for touchdowns with 13, and he earned AFL MVP honors. Gilchrist rushed for a professional football record 243 yards and five touchdowns in a single game against the New York Jets in 1963. Though he was only with the Bills for three years (1962–1964), he remains the team’s fifth-leading rusher all-time, and led the league in scoring in each of his three years as a Bill. Gilchrist ran for 122 yards in the Bills’ 1964 American Football League championship defeat of the San Diego Chargers, 20-7. His 4.5 yard/rush average is second as a Bill only to O.J. Simpson. Cornerback Booker Edgerson, a former Bills teammate, said Gilchrist was “just as good and maybe even better” than Brown. “He and Jim had the same outstanding abilities to play the game,” he added. Retired Buffalo News football writer Larry Felser covered Gilchrist during his days with the Bills and still regards him as the best to play the game. Felser wrote in 2004: “Any time. Any place. Any brand of football. Cookie was, pound for pound, the greatest all-around player I ever saw. He would be a superstar in today’s football.”

  84. thedudesnotin says: Jan 23, 2011 11:04 AM

    @Deb

    Nice!

  85. joetoronto says: Jan 23, 2011 12:19 PM

    All this talk about the NCAA not producing enough good players is a joke, in my opinion.

    The schools produce so many good players, that allot of them don’t get a fair shake.

    Some get *lucky* and go to the USFL or the CFL and finally get a chance to prove they can play.

    Some don’t even get that.

  86. Deb says: Jan 23, 2011 3:48 PM

    @joetoronto …

    The operative words regarding NCAA talent production were elite talent and especially at the QB and offensive line positions. Producing guys who can play football and producing top-level talent capable of competing with the best of the NFL are two different things. Do you want to watch 32 competitive teams? Or 10 competive teams, 10 midline teams, and 12 schleppers? That’s what we’re looking at now, and continued expansion is not going to produce more competitive teams. It’s going to produce more schleppers.

    The USFL?????? Hi, it’s 2011.

    @halftermguv …

    I’m not disrespecting Canada; that’s just how several Canadians have chosen to take it. I’m opposed to moving existing NFL franchises to new cities–unless, as someone else said, they’re going out of business. And I’m opposed to expanding beyond the current 32 teams whether that expansion is in the U.S. or Canada. That has everything to do with my thoughts on the NFL and nothing to do with my thoughts on Canada. I’ve only been there once, but I loved it. Thought Canada was beautiful and the people were wonderful. It’s not personal.

  87. recon163 says: Jan 30, 2011 10:28 AM

    For DEB

    “You’re not too bright are you? But you’re leaps and bounds ahead of recon163. I see he’s still writing volumes to me despite being told that I won’t read them. Guess he’s just in love with his own words. Either that or the facility hasn’t yet delivered his morning dose of Secanol to calm him down.”

    Oh you’re reading them. Otherwise why mention me at all?

    You just don’t like the fact that what I wrote about you holds true.

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