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Bill Polian: Roethlisberger is up there with Manning and Brady

roethlisberger

For the last decade, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have been the generally accepted top two quarterbacks in football, with the only argument being which one of them was first and which one of them was second.

But the man who drafted Manning, Colts President Bill Polian, says there’s another quarterback who deserves to be in that mix.

“Bottom line, if you ask football people, they’re going to put Ben Roethlisberger up there with [Manning and Brady] almost unanimously,” Polian told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “No one would leave him out.  And others who have made the Pro Bowl, for example, wouldn’t even get consideration if you took a poll of all 32 general managers.”

Roethlisberger hasn’t had the statistics or the accolades of Manning or Brady, but it’s hard to dispute that he’s one of the league’s elite players. Polian, who doesn’t hand out praise lightly, sure thinks so.

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214 Responses to “Bill Polian: Roethlisberger is up there with Manning and Brady”
  1. scytherius says: Jan 28, 2011 12:18 PM

    Hmmm. Maybe. Still a bit too early to know. I wonder how he would have done if he was just never with a good team. There have been some great ones at that level who spent their careers with mediocre teams.

  2. seanmmartin says: Jan 28, 2011 12:20 PM

    A great defense will make any quarterback look good.

    Kerry Collins
    Joe Flacco
    Eli Manning
    Mark Sanchez

  3. Admin says: Jan 28, 2011 12:22 PM

    But Peyton Manning isn’t even up there with Tom Brady. 14-6 in the playoffs v.s. 8-9 in the playoffs. 3 rings v.s. 1 ring.. I’ll admit Peyton is great, but can’t win in the playoffs. Big Ben is clutch, but not overall a great qb. Take the good qualities from Big Ben and the good qualities from Peyton and you get Tom Brady.

  4. chapnastier says: Jan 28, 2011 12:22 PM

    Love him or hate him, Fat Ben is a proven winner on the field.

  5. hobartbaker says: Jan 28, 2011 12:23 PM

    A quick comparison of the three shows that while Roethlisberger hasn’t won as many SBs as Brady, he is at least as goofy looking as Manning.

  6. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 12:25 PM

    No, it’s really not hard to dispute. Elite QB’s don’t post QB ratings of 33 in Conference Championship games. The Steelers would have won that game with Jamarcus Russel behind center.

  7. steviesteeler says: Jan 28, 2011 12:26 PM

    He don’t get this recognition because people are too worried about yards, style and td’s when they judge qb’s. This should be a small factor in this but what people don’t consider is wins and in particular wins in big games. Ben is as good or better than anyone in the league and can be mentioned with any qb in history when looking at win loss records in the playoffs. He also had two sb wins with a third pending.
    Remember, he’s still in his twenties…

    Before I hear it I know he was terrible in his first sb but he was great in the three playoff games to get there. You could tell in his first sb the stage was too big for him and this is what I’m hoping for this year when Rogers takes the field…

  8. hooterdawg says: Jan 28, 2011 12:27 PM

    Nothing against Big Ben, but many Colt fans don’t consider Polian to be up there with the ‘greats’ anymore. These days, what comes out of his mouth is more CYA dribble than accurate assessment.

  9. villagoo says: Jan 28, 2011 12:27 PM

    @seanmmartin

    How many SBs are in that group? That’s all that matters. At the end of the day nobody from Pittsburgh cares how many probowls or commercials you make (manning), they care about how many rings you have (ben).

  10. mvp43 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:27 PM

    Have to agree……..

    There are different types of QB’s. Ben may never have the gaudy stats, but he’s a fierce competitor, that plays likes a linebacker. He’s very savy in the pocket and has a knack for extending plays. Oh ya, he has 2 rings!

  11. broncsfan says: Jan 28, 2011 12:28 PM

    The elite:

    1. Tom Brady
    1. Aaron Rodgers (tie)
    3. Peyton Manning
    3. Drew Brees (tie)
    5. Ben Roethlisberger
    6. Philip Rivers

  12. charliedamon says: Jan 28, 2011 12:29 PM

    Sorry, but that team runs on it’s running game and defense. He makes just enough plays to look good. I mean his stats in his first SB were some of the worst all time. He’s definitely first in cornering drunk co-eds in the can…

  13. vadog says: Jan 28, 2011 12:29 PM

    Ummm…no, he’s the luckiest quarterback in the NFL. One of these days, his “playground” style is going to cost the Steelers big…just hope it’s in their next game. I hate the Steelers, the Rooneys, and Roethlisbugger.

  14. iluvwikileaks says: Jan 28, 2011 12:30 PM

    Roethlisberger already has more Super Bowl rings than Manning. How many times has Peyton failed in the play-offs?

  15. kirkandhanh says: Jan 28, 2011 12:30 PM

    Roethlisberger is way past Manning at this point. Not Brady. Manning is on the downside of his career.

  16. handlethehandles says: Jan 28, 2011 12:31 PM

    To:
    seanmmartin says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:20 PM
    A great defense will make any quarterback look good.
    Kerry Collins
    Joe Flacco
    Eli Manning
    Mark Sanchez

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    First off did you just say Kerry Collins is a good qb.
    Second I think Rothlisberger has and is playing alot better than some crutch qb the team has to deal with.
    Third was Brady lucky for getting with a team that surrounded him with a great def?

  17. contra74 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:31 PM

    In terms of what? Ego?

  18. gochargersgo says: Jan 28, 2011 12:32 PM

    Pittsburgh was 3-1 without him this year. Everytime he spends significant time away from the team they still perform well. Im not saying hes not good, but he does not carry the same responsibilities as Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, etc. Almost any of those teams would be crap without their starting QB.

  19. broncsfan says: Jan 28, 2011 12:32 PM

    I don’t think you can chalk up his success to defense. The flipside is that a bad offensive line and no running game will make any QB look bad, and that’s more or less what he’s had both this year and the last time the Steelers won the SB. Taking away the defense on top of that is asking a bit much, but we already know what happens when you do that to Roethlisberger – he continues to put up great passing numbers but just wins less games (2009).

  20. mataug says: Jan 28, 2011 12:33 PM

    The Steelers went 3-1 w/o Big Ben to begin the season. Can the Colts or Patriots go 3-1 w/o Manning and Brady respectively ? The Patriots maybe because they have a brilliant coach who is very good at adapting. The Colts might be lucky to go 1-3 w/o Peyton.

    I always believe that it is a team game played by a 45 man roster every Sunday but out of all the 32 teams in the NFL, I think these two teams are really dependent on their future HOF QBs.

  21. amanistumor says: Jan 28, 2011 12:33 PM

    BR is a physical talent in that position and a clutch player. But his stats don’t even compare to the Elites in today’s game. I’m ignoring W/L and SB’s because while he was in integral part to them winning, their Defense is what makes that team great.

    Give Manning a defense like Pats in their hayday or Pitt’s current and it wouldn’t even be close, every game would be a blowout in PM’s favor. Nuff said.

  22. freedomispopular says: Jan 28, 2011 12:36 PM

    @scytherius
    You could say the same thing about Manning, Brady, Montana….the list goes on. And look at how Manning did this year with a not very good Colts team. AS bad as they were, they still were competitive with Manning at the helm, but it just goes to show, no single man can carry a whole team on his shoulders.

  23. rkl115 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:37 PM

    It amuses me that Patriots fans get bitter when anyone suggests Rothlisberger is near Brady’s level. I went to school with Patriots fans who, from 2002-2006, argued that Brady was better than Manning because he had the Super Bowls. “Sure, Manning has the numbers, but the only number that counts is the number of Lombardi Trophies.” By that standard, if Ben wins next Sunday, he’s just as good as Brady. Sure Brady has the numbers, but the only number that counts is the number of Lombardis. Now, I don’t think that Ben is quite at Brady or Manning’s level yet, and I’m a Steelers fan, but I also didn’t spend 5 years arguing regular season statistics are meaningless..

  24. nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 12:38 PM

    scytherius says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:18 PM
    Hmmm. Maybe. Still a bit too early to know. I wonder how he would have done if he was just never with a good team. There have been some great ones at that level who spent their careers with mediocre teams.

    =========================

    The Steelers were 6 – 10 in 2003.

    In 2004, Roethlisberger’s rookie year, they went 15 – 1 and he was a major reason for that turnaround. (I believe he was 14 – 0 as a starter in the regular season.)

    They’ve built a great defense since then, but Roethlisberger is largely responsible for their success and is definitely the third best QB in the game today.

  25. giablommi says: Jan 28, 2011 12:39 PM

    Meh. Roethlisberger has had the benefit of a stellar defense and good receivers and running game year in year out.

    Brady’s teams have had solid defenses from 01-07 but never had a solid, consistant running game, and there has been a ton of turnover at RB and WR positions from year to year. The team has basically been entirely on his shoulders the last 2 seasons. Manning’s teams have had a fairly consistant offense and 1-2 star WRs ever year but he also has had to carry his teams with lousy defenses yeart in year out.

    Roethlisberger is good but he is not in Brady or Manning’s league (yet)…but that is a much a testament to how well rounded the Steelers have been than anything else.

  26. nfl4ever says: Jan 28, 2011 12:39 PM

    iluvwikileaks says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:30 PM
    Roethlisberger already has more Super Bowl rings than Manning. How many times has Peyton failed in the play-offs?
    ————————————————
    Big Ben has more playoff wins than Manning too, in far fewer games.

  27. house068 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:39 PM

    Just don’t ask Rod Woodson.

  28. johnny21utah says: Jan 28, 2011 12:39 PM

    For anyone who thinks he’s “lucky”, take a look at his come from behind statistics or his success in the 2 minute drill. Too many people use fantasy football as the “elite” standard. This is real football and Big Ben is one of the best.

    And to the guy who ranked Rodgers tied for #1 with Brady, LOLOLOLOL!!! Guy didn’t win his first playoff game until this year….

  29. ButkisMyDick says: Jan 28, 2011 12:40 PM

    @broncsfan Aaron has done great in the last couple of games, but has won no superbowls. To tie him with Tom Brady shows you know absolutely nothing about football. You’re comparing possibly the greatest QB of all time to a QB who has had a few good games, but still nothing of substance to show for it.

  30. donterrelli says: Jan 28, 2011 12:41 PM

    vadog says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:29 PM
    Ummm…no, he’s the luckiest quarterback in the NFL. One of these days, his “playground” style is going to cost the Steelers big…just hope it’s in their next game. I hate the Steelers, the Rooneys, and Roethlisbugger.

    ————-

    You Mad

  31. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 12:44 PM

    Stats aren’t relevant to my “best of” list. It’s about who kept me riveted to the screen, gave me chills, made me believe no matter what was on the scoreboard. That’s why I’d pick Elway and never think of Marino … why it would always be Montana over Young … why I loved watching Favre. Roethlisberger has that quality. He could have had a better work ethic–and I hope he’s improving. But he always had that indefinable something you want when the game is on the line.

  32. picksix401 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:45 PM

    i don’t like the guy but his toughness/durability is astounding

  33. nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 12:46 PM

    Megatron says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:25 PM
    No, it’s really not hard to dispute. Elite QB’s don’t post QB ratings of 33 in Conference Championship games. The Steelers would have won that game with Jamarcus Russel behind center.

    ========================

    When Polian says “if you ask football people” he is most definitely ruling out fans like yourself who don’t seem to understand the game.

    Roethlisberger did have a couple bad throws that game (the second interception being one of them) but he made every play he needed to make to win including key third down conversions, key scambles (1 rushing TD) and two clutch completions in the final drive to win the game.

    The Steelers weren’t interested in putting on a passing clinic that day — they just wanted to win. Rivers probably would have thrown for 400 yards in a loss, though.

  34. Rhode Island Patriots Fan says: Jan 28, 2011 12:46 PM

    I disagree with Polian. In my view, Roethlisberger will become one of the “big three” if and only if he wins Super Bowl XLV. If he achieves that goal and gets his third ring, then I would characterize him as one of the truly elite quarterbacks in the NFL today, along with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. All the other so-called “elite” quarterbacks in the game today—according to the sports media—will pale by comparison.

  35. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 12:48 PM

    Why is it that Manning takes the blame for every Colts playoff loss, even if he has a great game? Yet Big Ben receives praise for winning a playoff game while he stinks up the joint. It doesn’t make sense. Manning had a passer rating of 108 in a loss to the Jets, and he somehow “lost” that game for the Colts, while Ben put up a rating of 33 vs. the Jets, and he “won” that game for Pitt? To those basing greatness on Super Bowls, you do realize that there’s always 21 other guys on the field, right? The only way to judge a QB’s performance is based upon personal achievement. Unless you really think that Jim Plunkett was a better QB than Brett Favre or Dan Marino.

  36. flake131 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:48 PM

    Admin sas:
    “Take the good qualities from Big Ben and the good qualities from Peyton and you get Tom Brady.”

    Until there’s even just a hint of a pass rush…then you get Joey Harrington.

  37. deadguy73 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:50 PM

    There are so many idiots out there that do not understand what makes a great player. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not stats.

    BR is money when it comes to critical moments. He shines where most crumble… but, who really cares what people think. We count rings around here. All that matters.

    Good luck Steelers. This game won’t come easy.

    Oh, and the conference championship was won in the first half. The Steelers didn’t need much to win it in the second. It was up to the Jets to get back into the game, and (to their credit) they did. That’s when our clutch QB put the dagger in their hearts.

  38. mashoaf says: Jan 28, 2011 12:51 PM

    Except Brady and Manning have carried their teams and Roethlisberger’s defense has carried him for his previous super bowls. I remember when there was an ESPN poll years ago that said that when Roethlisberger throws the ball more than 20 times that they are a sub 500 team and when he throws the ball less than 20 times the team won all but 1 or 2 games.

  39. truesob1 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:51 PM

    I think someone here said that you take away the good things about Manning and put them with the good things from Roethlisberger and you get Brady?

    Really?

    Because Brady doesn’t crumble under the pass rush or anything right?

    Because Brady isn’t afraid to run 15+ yards for a first down without sliding right?

    Right? RIGHT?

    Big Ben is a player, he can take hits that would leave most QB’s whining to the officials and to the commisioner to “make a new rule to make the game safer”.

    After next sunday Ben will have 3 rings, and no need to put asterix next to those wins (spycam belicheat fans and go ahead and flame how it’s all in the past. but you’ll never live it down and you know it.)

    The worst thing that everyone could have done was tell the Steelers that they were 3 point underdogs, now they come ready to play, and they got something to prove.

    #7 brings home 7, in a year where we thumbed our noses at the comissioner and his flag football rules, where we played the first quarter of the season without our starting quaterback, a year plagued with injuries…How could it be anymore sweet?

  40. holeinone09 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:52 PM

    Considering overall play and results, Ben has to be in the “elite” category. Whether he is #1 or #4 doesn’t really matter. While I don’t think Ben may be as pure a passer as a Brady or Manning, he still has thrown some spectacularly great passes in clutch times. There are many reasons why some passers have great stats. Steelers historically have focused more on the run than other teams, while also have been holding the lead (thus not having to pass as much as others), etc. Also, I don’t have the stats in front of me, but I wonder how his yards per pass stack up with some of these guys that dink and dunk?

    Also, Manning has not shown that he can win many “big games”. He is really good during the season, then shrinks in the playoffs most times. That is a fact. Rivers? What has he done in the playoffs? He piles up stats that mean nothing at the end of the day.

    But, Ben is head and shoulders above anybody you might put in the top 5 when it comes to extending plays and making something happen out of nothing. That is clearly important in the “results” column.

    Besides, this is a fun debate with no final answer. As a Steeler fan, I am happy we have Ben on our team.

    Finally, contrary to what someone above said, while of course the Steelers have a great defense, none of them are on the field when Ben is.

    GO STEELERS!!

  41. johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 12:53 PM

    I honestly don’t know how Brady gets considered the greatest of all time. He hasn’t won anything without cheating.

  42. johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 12:55 PM

    Pats fans used to argue that statistics meant nothing. How funny now that Ben might tie Brady for SB wins that they mean everything, all of the sudden.

  43. flake131 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:56 PM

    Anone want to guess how Brady would do behind the Steelers’ offensive line? Ouch!

  44. chrisbermansdoublechin says: Jan 28, 2011 12:58 PM

    Ben is second behind Bart Starr [9-1] all -time in winning % in playoff games [10-2], for people who like to mention stats, as a way to downgrade him. I’m not a fantasy football stat freek, so 10-2 in the playoffs is the ONLY stat about Ben that matters to me, … being mentioned w/Bart Starr is a great compliment

  45. broncsfan says: Jan 28, 2011 12:59 PM

    @Butkis:

    If I were judging QB legacies, then Rodgers wouldn’t yet sniff Brady, or even Roethlisberger for that matter. It’s a list of how good players are right now, and, call me crazy, but I’d have a heck of a time making up my mind if you told me I could have either Brady or Rodgers as my starting QB for the next five years. And I don’t think anyone who’s watched Rodgers the last couple years would argue there’s anything flukey about what he’s done in these playoffs.

  46. themage78 says: Jan 28, 2011 12:59 PM

    How many times has Peyton had a Top 10 ranked Defense? Or Brady for that matter?
    Ben is considered “Elite” even though his defense carries him. Pittsburgh is second in the league in YPG defense this year. And 1st in Rushing Defense. In fact you have to go back to 2006 to find a time when their defense wasn’t in the Top 5 of YPG defense.
    And during that time no Steeler Offense posted a Top 5 in Offense YPG, or Passing YPG. Only once since 2006 did they get in the top 5 for rushing.
    So please tell me how Ben is elite when his team never cracks into the Top 5 offenses or passing offenses? I know it goes against “Ground and Pound” which the Steelers love, but you’d figure once he’d put together a solid year.
    Only once has he gone over 4000 yards. Only twice since he’s been in the league has he gone over 20 TDs. 5 Times he’s thrown for Double Digit INTs. HE’s had 4 seasons of 40+ sacks, even though he’s known as a “scrambling” quarterback.

    HE SUCKS. He’s not an elite QB, never is, never will be. He will do enough to allow his rushing game and Defense to win him the game.
    Polumalu should be the one compared to the greats, not him.

  47. cornellsteelers says: Jan 28, 2011 1:01 PM

    I love how everyone discredits Ben because he plays on a good team. Um, OK? I guess we can disqualify everything pretty much every great QB did besides 1983-1994 Elway, because every single one besides him played on a great team. Even Elway needed Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith and a great D to win his two Super Bowls.

    From 1992-2003 the Steelers had a great defense, dominant offensive line, and punishing running game almost every year. They won zero Super Bowls and frequently lost home playoff games in shocking fashion. From 2004-2010 the Steelers still had a great defense, but the offensive line regressed drastically to mediocre status and the running game became quite average. Yet in that time they went 10-2 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowls and possibly a third in a week. Hmm, I wonder what changed in 2004?

  48. steelernation1 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:03 PM

    hobartbaker says: Jan 28, 2011 12:23 PM

    A quick comparison of the three shows that while Roethlisberger hasn’t won as many SBs as Brady, he is at least as goofy looking as Manning.
    …………………………………………………………………………………..

    tom brady 9 years in nfl 3 rings
    big ben in 5 years 2 rings-possible 3rd this year

    Brady this year threw for 3900 yrds 16 games
    Ben this year 12 games 3200 yrds

    if ben would have played 16 games he would have passed brady

    so anyone that says ben don’t compare to Brady is sadly mistaken..just because ben takes sacks more doesn’t make him a less of a player…half you goons that insult him don’t even see the guy play until he plays your team,,

    for ben being in the league for less years go to NFL site and compare there overall stats for carreer it is a lot closer than u guys think.and ben has been in the league for shorter period of time..

  49. medialovesthecowboys says: Jan 28, 2011 1:03 PM

    broncsfan says: Jan 28, 2011 12:28 PM

    The elite:

    1. Tom Brady
    1. Aaron Rodgers (tie)
    3. Peyton Manning
    3. Drew Brees (tie)
    5. Ben Roethlisberger
    6. Philip Rivers
    ——————————————————
    There’s really only two elite Quarterbacks in my opinion. Roethlisberger and Brady. Listen, forget the stats, the accuracy, the intangibles. All those things don’t matter if you don’t have the W on Monday morning. Manning is 9-10 in the postseason and the majority of those losses have come with a healthy and productive Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Roethlisberger and Brady are straight gamers. They win. And that’s the only thing that counts. Don’t believe me? Ask Dan Marino if he’d like to trade his 40-TD seasons for one of Roethlisberger’s rings…

  50. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:08 PM

    Most of you people are complete morons.

    Roethlisberger does things that no other QB can do. He thrives with a terrible O-line and rookie WRs.

    To top it off, his stats are better than ever. 4000 yard passer last year, on pace for 4000 yards this year (had he had 16 games). One of the greatest yards-per-attempt of all time. Plus he’s mobile- a threat to scoring TDs on the ground (TDs which aren’t factored into the QB Rating).

    The standard, brain dead mantras repeated ad nasuem lack merit. People say that Roetlhisberger inherited a good team, ignoring the fact that the Steelers went 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger came on board and 15-1 the year he arrived. People point out that Ben had a crappy Super Bowl XL, while ignoring that he carried the team to the Super Bowl, winning three road play-off games with virtually no running game. People ignore the fact that the Steelers have had a terrible OL and so-so run game since 2006.

    I shouldn’t expect people to be fair-minded, or even to be smart enough to weigh and evaluate evidence. The way the gullible masses bought into the meritless media lynching of Ben this Spring shows that. Where is the outrage over the Packer’s assault accusation? Oh, that’s right, the t.v. didn’t tell you that you should be outraged, so you aren’t.

    The lack of understanding of basic facts that the media and the fans display in regards to Steelers and Roethlisberger in particular is distressing to me, because it shows how fundamentally stupid the people of this country are. You are too easily satisfied by what the talking heads spoon-feed to you. It’s disgusting.

  51. ihateannouncers says: Jan 28, 2011 1:12 PM

    You can look at every superbowl winning QB and find other areas on their team that helped them win. Bradshaw had a great defense, Montana had the greatest reciever of all time…etc. Manning hasn’t really had that luxury. Where would Brady be in the discussion without Adam Vinatieri or the tuck rule?? It’s a fun debate amongst fans, but at the end of the day the guys with the most Lombardi Trophies win.

  52. ndomination says: Jan 28, 2011 1:13 PM

    There’s a difference, however; Manning and Brady make their teammates around them better.

  53. cantarguefacts says: Jan 28, 2011 1:13 PM

    Let do an experiment, Lets give Big Ben a team that doesnt have a staunch D and see how he does for season.

    Nobody performs under situational pressure liek Tom Brady..nobody. You need a pass on 4th and X in the playoffs then Brady is your man.

    Nobody performs under physical pressure like Peyton Manning. Nobody. You need a pass completed when the line collapses and a defender is the QB’s face, then Manning is your man.

    The Jets went on the road for three straight games against Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger.

    Manning played a pretty good game and did well under the Jets rush, but couldnt pull it off, the defense/special teams (coverage) failed in the clutch.

    Brady has ahd the best pass protection of any QB this year except for his last game. He was put under physical pressure and couldnt perform and the young defense couldnt pull through for the pats.

    Finally, Roethlisberger had a fine first half but failed to even show up in the second half, he was bad under pressure and just looked amature. The veteran defense pulled through and that is why the Jets were stopped.

    DEFENSE wins championships. Manning and the Colts defense played well against the Jets, Brady and his defense played well against the same Jets team and the Pittsburgh defense played GREAT against the same Jets team. The Defense was the difference. Not Roethlisberger.

    This was a special post season for NFL fans because it is the best comparison we may ever have to show who was best amongst Brady, Manning and Big Ben..they all played the same team at home and all showed average stats. Manning had maybe the best overall performance but Brady was put under heavier pressure and hit a lot more. Roethlisberger played a good first half and made one meaningful completion in the second half.

    1 (a) Brady 1 (b) Manning or 1 (a) Manning 1(b) Brady

    2 Roethlisberger
    3Rodgers

    4. everybody else

  54. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:16 PM

    themage78 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:59 PM

    HE SUCKS. He’s not an elite QB, never is, never will be. He will do enough to allow his rushing game and Defense to win him the game.
    __________________

    You’re a buffoon. You’ve never watched a Steelers game, have you? Roethlisberger’s stats aren’t through the roof only because the defense is good. The Steelers pass to take a lead, then take the air out of the ball. For many games, the passing offense basically only plays for one half.

    Coincidentally, when the Steelers defense was weak against the pass last year, Roethlisberger threw for more yards. See the 500-yard game against Green Bay, for example.

    The Steelers rushing stats are a bit skewed this year because they played the first four games without Roethlisberger. The Steelers’ run game has not been dominant since 2004, and it has barely been decent since 2005.

    Stick with Fantasy Football, because you’re completely ignorant when it comes to the real thing.

  55. cityofchampyinz says: Jan 28, 2011 1:17 PM

    The Standard is the Standard, and the Standard is winning.
    It’s ALL about winning in Pittsburgh. Some of you will never get that because Ben can’t start for your fantasy team.

    Keep hating while we keep stacking rings.

  56. 1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:18 PM

    Top 3 QB? I don’t think so. I’ll give him a tie for 5th, with Brees. Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, and Manning are all still above Ben. I hate to admit it, but he is a good QB, and is a freaking mutant. Not many QB’s can stiff arm would be tacklers. Still, I think Pitt has almost the same success without Ben, where these other QB’s absence would be very detrimental to their team.

  57. burghman says: Jan 28, 2011 1:20 PM

    There’s a HUGE difference between being a great QB and being a great passer.

    Great passer = lofty stats and QB rating

    Great QB = total wins and SuperBowls

    Ben is a great QB regardless of the outcome of this SB.

  58. clusterpuck says: Jan 28, 2011 1:22 PM

    That people that are saying Ben has great receivers and great running backs….WAKE UP AND WATCH FOOTBALL!!

    Brady has been throwing to Welker and Moss the last few years. Manning spent most of his career throwing to Harrison and Wayne and Clark.

    Ben is throwing to Ward who can barely run, Wallace who is only good running fly patterns and 2 rookies. His offensive line is a disaster. Asides from last week they are an average running team.

    How many rings would Brady have if it wasnt for Bruschi, Ty Law, Harrison Seymour etc… and Vinateri kicking miracle kicks through the snow and in Super Bowls.

    Manning doesnt even have a winning record in the playoffs.

    You all seem to be forgetting that in 2008 as the great Steeler D was folding like a lawn chair against Arizona, Ben was engineering one of the best drives in Super Bowl history to win it.

  59. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:23 PM

    cantarguefacts says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:13 PM
    Let do an experiment, Lets give Big Ben a team that doesnt have a staunch D and see how he does for season.

    Nobody performs under situational pressure liek Tom Brady..nobody. You need a pass on 4th and X in the playoffs then Brady is your man.
    _____________

    When has Brady ever pulled off a last minute TD drive to win a Super Bowl?

  60. maddog111 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:25 PM

    Ah, what does Bill Polian know? I bet he hasn’t even read the latest listing of great quarterbacks posted by broncsfan.

  61. eezyxyz says: Jan 28, 2011 1:25 PM

    It’s simple. Ben has Superbowl wins etc. because he plays on a team that has ranked 1st, 4th, 9th, 1st, 1st, 5th and 2nd in defense since he’s been the starter. Any NFL QB love to play on a team where ranking 9th in D is actually a terrible year. Anybody think Ben would have 2 (maybe 3) Superbowl rings playing for the Bengals the last seven years? No, didn’t think so (although, funny story, Carson Palmer did win a division title and have 4 game-winning drives in 2009, the only year Cinci have had a top-10 defense in his career. See how “clutch” QBs suddenly look when they play with good defenses?)

    Once you stop giving Ben individual credit for what are team accomplishments there’s no way he is individually an elite player. I watched Marino, Montana, Young et al., and sorry Ben but you are simply not in their company. You are a very good NFL QB playing on a consistently great defensive team, not an elite QB yourself.

  62. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:26 PM

    cornellsteelers says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:01 PM

    From 1992-2003 the Steelers had a great defense, dominant offensive line, and punishing running game almost every year. They won zero Super Bowls and frequently lost home playoff games in shocking fashion. From 2004-2010 the Steelers still had a great defense, but the offensive line regressed drastically to mediocre status and the running game became quite average. Yet in that time they went 10-2 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowls and possibly a third in a week. Hmm, I wonder what changed in 2004?

    _________

    Exactly right, Cornell.

  63. stilllovemybungles says: Jan 28, 2011 1:28 PM

    Yeah, he right…They are all over rated!

  64. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 1:28 PM

    nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 12:46 PM

    When Polian says “if you ask football people” he is most definitely ruling out fans like yourself who don’t seem to understand the game.

    Roethlisberger did have a couple bad throws that game (the second interception being one of them) but he made every play he needed to make to win including key third down conversions, key scambles (1 rushing TD) and two clutch completions in the final drive to win the game.

    The Steelers weren’t interested in putting on a passing clinic that day — they just wanted to win. Rivers probably would have thrown for 400 yards in a loss, though.
    __________

    Look sport, I’m not here to name call and argue with someone who clearly knows it all. If that’s your bag, then so be it. Just doesn’t do it for me.

    That said, I realize Ben made a handful of plays. I never said he was a bad player. Just that he’s not an elite QB.

    But let me see if I’m digesting what you’re getting at here. In your eyes, if Ben throws for 130 yards and 2 picks in a win, and Rivers throws for 400 yards and 4 TD’s, with no picks in a loss, then Ben played the better game?

  65. giablommi says: Jan 28, 2011 1:29 PM

    “I honestly don’t know how Brady gets considered the greatest of all time. He hasn’t won anything without cheating.”
    ^^^^^
    Well, since you want to play that game, the Steelers were admittedly fueled up on steroids for their first 4 titles and the fifth is widely regarded as, at best, one the most incompetantly officiated games in league history, or at worst, a game directly and intentionally fixed so that the Steelers would win.

    That game was and continues to be a black eye for the league, and seeing as how that ushered in the Goodell era, marked the beginning of the end of the greatness of the NFL.

    Can’t have it both ways.

  66. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:29 PM

    ndomination says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:13 PM
    There’s a difference, however; Manning and Brady make their teammates around them better.

    ___________

    Yeah, and Roethlisberger’s just being carried along by a stellar offense. Both of the starting tackles are on IR. His current starting LT is a barely NFL calibur Detriot Lions and Buffalo Bills washout. His recieving corps consists of a passed-his prime Ward, a second year Wallace, and two rookies. Yet he’s clinched two play-off games with throws to a 6th round rookie. Ben is just carried by the massive talent around him. Great analysis.

  67. steelernation1 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:30 PM

    Finally, Roethlisberger had a fine first half but failed to even show up in the second half, he was bad under pressure and just looked amature. The veteran defense pulled through and that is why the Jets were stopped
    …………………………………………………………………………………..
    wow u musta been wasted when u watched the game.Ben did everything he had to do in second half.when he pulled right to seal the deal?how many of your so called top QB’s can do that..none of them cause they are pocket passers..

    and the defense is defense they dotn play on offense,ben still got to make the plays to help win,and he makes better plays than any QB out there right now.sure brady and manning have elite receivers but put the receivers with ben and i am sure he would pass them by a long shot.for what he has to work with especially this year and still have 3200 yards in just 12 games ,says enough,remember brady had 3900 yards this year in 16 games…

    soem of you anti ben people dotn see the overall picture and never will cause u r blinded by hs off field problems…which doesnt change what he does on the field..

  68. japdouds says: Jan 28, 2011 1:32 PM

    “Roethlisberger hasn’t had the statistics or the accolades of Manning or Brady”

    Mind if I shatter this myth into 1000 tiny pieces?

    First 7 years of their careers:
    QB Rating:
    Ben 92.5
    Brady 88.4
    Manning: 88.1

    Yards:
    Ben – 22502
    Brady – 21564
    Manning – 24885

    Yards Per Attempt
    Ben 8.0
    Brady 7.0
    Manning 7.4

    Completion %
    Ben 63.1
    Brady 61.8
    Manning 62.9

    TD’s
    Ben 144
    Brady 147
    Manning 167

    Ben has better YPA, QB rating and completion percentage than either of those two dudes, and his yards and TD’s are right there with Manning and Brady through seven seasons.

    Question is, why do people question Ben’s stats when nobody questioned Brady and Mannings stats after 7 years?

    Ben is one of the best QB’s ever. Most people are too stupid to realize it, or hate him too much to admit it!

  69. Borsk says: Jan 28, 2011 1:32 PM

    To those saying he plays with a great defense:

    That’s not even on his side of the ball. On offense he plays behind on of the worst offensive lines in football. One wracked by injuries and generally just terrible. The number of broken plays he turns into big plays are tremendous

    Mendenhall is a quality back but average stats-wise. His receivers are Hines Ward (a 30+ possession receiver) and some rookies. He turned Wallace, Brown, and Sanders into great players.

    Runs for first downs and rushing TDs aren’t counted in QB “passer ratings.”

    To those who say Super Bowls don’t matter, it’s the stats:

    All the New England fans were pimping Tom Brady’s 3 rings when Manning was missing his, saying that Manning’s stats don’t matter.

    To those saying the Steelers can win without him:

    The pats went 11-5 without Brady last season.

  70. bleedgreen80 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:34 PM

    say what u want 2 rings with a possibility of a 3rd speaks volumes!

  71. wetpaperbag2 says: Jan 28, 2011 1:35 PM

    It’s funny when fans use Superbowl wins as a judging criteria of QB’s. The last time I checked, winning a Superbowl is a TEAM effort. Thus, grading a QB’s INDIVIDUAL statistic with a TEAM-BASED statistic is not only backwards, but it is flat out asinine!

    The adage, “Defense Wins Championships”, still holds true to this day. ANY Superbowl team can win with an “elite” or “non-elite” QB. But a Superbowl team CANNOT win if the defense is crap. A great defense will ALWAYS beat a great QB!

  72. deiong says: Jan 28, 2011 1:35 PM

    hes ok but nothign special

  73. gamustangdude says: Jan 28, 2011 1:39 PM

    Here’s how we’ll settle it.

    4th and 7, 14 seconds to go, and you’re on the 12 yard line needing a td to win the super bowl. The defense has kept you’re running game to 45 total yards so there’s no way you plan on running the ball. Who do you want as your QB on this play?

    A. Brady
    B. Manning
    C. Roethlisberger

    MY first Choice would be Manning followed by Roethlisberger for the simple fact that there’s no way the defese will blitz and they’ll have 7 back in coverage. Manning can make the tighter throws however if the Situation calls for it, Ben will run it out.

  74. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:41 PM

    Megatron says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:48 PM
    Why is it that Manning takes the blame for every Colts playoff loss, even if he has a great game? Yet Big Ben receives praise for winning a playoff game while he stinks up the joint. It doesn’t make sense. Manning had a passer rating of 108 in a loss to the Jets, and he somehow “lost” that game for the Colts, while Ben put up a rating of 33 vs. the Jets, and he “won” that game for Pitt?
    ____________

    Because QB rating is a flawed mechanism at best, and is really only useful at looking at entire seasons, rather than games.

    Plus, Roethlisberger had two completions that ended just short of the endzone and resulted in rushing TDs. Had Mendenhall and Ward made it the final two yards, Roethlisberger’s QB rating would have been much better. The drives both resulted in TDs anyway. Plus, the QB rating ignores the drives that Ben kept alive with his legs.

    Your “analysis” is shallow.

  75. Darth Goodell says: Jan 28, 2011 1:41 PM

    If I were building a team I’d take Roethlisberger over anyone else in the league right now. His stats aren’t always pretty but he’s tougher than hell and regularly wins big games. The priority is winning in the postseason, not how many times your QB leads the league in passer rating.

  76. theshakeweight says: Jan 28, 2011 1:41 PM

    Any chance Polian said that in order to get Ben paid more? That way Pittsburg has to give more of their salary cap money to just one player too just like the Colts are going through with Manning. Less of a chance to sign others…

  77. citizenstrange says: Jan 28, 2011 1:42 PM

    Two different arguments:

    1) The Steelers have had LOTS of great defenses but went 26 years between Super Bowl wins until Roethlisberger won one is just his second year.

    2) The Steeler defense has been INCREDIBLY good during Roethlisberger’s career. When the Steeler defense is #1 in the NFL the Steelers go to the Super Bowl like this year and Super Bowl XLIII.

    Last year when the Steeler defense was #5 – which is still pretty good – they didn’t even make the playoffs.

    If someone had snaked Roethlisberger away before the Steelers drafted him everybody would be talking about what a gamer Steeler quarterback J.P. Losman is and how great he is for pulling out all those 4th quarter comeback 13-10 wins.

    And Detroit Lion Big Ben Roethlisberger would have zero playoff appearances.

  78. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:54 PM

    Question is, why do people question Ben’s stats when nobody questioned Brady and Mannings stats after 7 years?

    Ben is one of the best QB’s ever. Most people are too stupid to realize it, or hate him too much to admit it!
    ____________________

    You just answered your own question- hate, jealousy, and stupidity.

  79. rectumnearlykilledem says: Jan 28, 2011 1:56 PM

    I’d put him right up there with Dave Meggett too.

  80. Mike Tomlin says: Jan 28, 2011 1:57 PM

    ok cantarguefacts, lets put Brady or Manning behind the Steelers OLine and give him a couple rookie wide receivers and a second year guy. And oh yea, if Brady ever lost Belichick his career would fold like Manning in the playoffs.

    Ask ANY coach who they would rather play any given Sunday. Especially in the playoffs. They are going to say 1. Manning 2. Brady 3. Roethlisberger 10 times out of 10. Case in point Rex Ryan.

    Polian says “if you ask football people” its obvious that none of your one sided thoughts can comprehend this.

  81. japdouds says: Jan 28, 2011 1:57 PM

    Can of of the “Steelers defense wins championships” crowd answer this question?

    1. If the Steelers D is so great and the reason they win SB’s, why over Ben’s 12 playoff starts has the Steelers defense allowed an average of 21 PPG in the playoffs?

    2. Why does Peyton Manning average 22.2 PPG and Tom Brady average 24.5 PPG in the playoffs?

    3. How can the “game manager / nothing special” Ben Roethlisberger average 26.9 PPG in the playoffs?

    I anxiously await your misguided responses based in hatred and ill-formed opinions!

  82. theshakeweight says: Jan 28, 2011 1:59 PM

    Manning turned around a franchise that rarely had a winning season, the Steelers were not doing too shaby with the Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewarts of the world.

  83. catman72 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:03 PM

    Oh please… I want to see Ben have the success Peyton and Brady are having without a dominant defense to bail him out.

  84. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 2:03 PM

    japdouds says: Jan 28, 2011 1:32 PM

    “Roethlisberger hasn’t had the statistics or the accolades of Manning or Brady”

    Mind if I shatter this myth into 1000 tiny pieces?

    First 7 years of their careers:

    TD’s
    Ben 144
    Brady 147
    Manning 167
    ________________

    Don’t know how you do your math, but mine shows Manning throwing for 216 TD’s his first 7 years. He had 167 in 6 years. Nice try though. No idea how inaccurate the rest of your stats are, this is just the one that easily caught my eye as being inaccurate.

  85. catman72 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:04 PM

    I’m not Pats fan, but Brady threw 36 TD’s and 4 int’s this year… nobody is on his level right now.

  86. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 2:07 PM

    giablommi says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:29 PM

    the fifth is widely regarded as, at best, one the most incompetantly officiated games in league history, or at worst, a game directly and intentionally fixed so that the Steelers would win.

    That game was and continues to be a black eye for the league, and seeing as how that ushered in the Goodell era, marked the beginning of the end of the greatness of the NFL.
    ____________________________

    The sour grapes over Super Bowl XL are funny. Which calls do you have a problem with? The push-off in the endzone right in front of the ref? The Roethlisberger rushing TD that was so close that it could not be overturned? The obvious hooking on Shawn Locklear that saved Hasselbeck from being destroyed by Clark Haggans?

    I admit that the low block was a bad call. The others weren’t. The officiating complaints came because (1) the game was sloppy overall, and it was the only real “story” and (2). the story came from John Madden, everyone’s favorite Steeler hater, who did his best to undermine every call in the Steelers favor. Casual fans trust Madden.

    Regardless, the win gets sweeter everytime someone complains. They can’t handle a 6th seed winning it all.

  87. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 2:09 PM

    wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:41 PM

    Because QB rating is a flawed mechanism at best, and is really only useful at looking at entire seasons, rather than games.

    Plus, Roethlisberger had two completions that ended just short of the endzone and resulted in rushing TDs. Had Mendenhall and Ward made it the final two yards, Roethlisberger’s QB rating would have been much better. The drives both resulted in TDs anyway. Plus, the QB rating ignores the drives that Ben kept alive with his legs.

    Your “analysis” is shallow.
    ________________

    Fair enough about rating. Let’s have a look at the rest of the line.

    Ben: 10/19, 2 picks, 2 fumbles, 133 yards

    Manning: 18/26, 1 TD, 225 yards, 0 picks or fumbles.

    Is that still shallow?

  88. ryanclark25 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:22 PM

    firstly im not gonna question brady/manning performance wise…..hall of famers no question……however for all the people pointing to a great defence helping ben i’d like to ask this: hows about we give brady that defence but with it that offensive line…..i’ll take ben in that pocket 10 times out of 10 whatever about stats ratings mvps etc.

  89. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:24 PM

    Pittsburgh proves how much of this game is based on the TEAM than any one individual. Ben is an above-average QB, but that defense carries the team.

    Look at their 2 Super Bowl wins with Ben. Every single big play in the game can be primarily attributed to someone other than Ben. Parker’s 75-yard TD, Taylor’s INT, Randle El’s 43-yard TD pass to Ward, Harrison’s 100-yard INT return for a TD, Holmes turning a 10-yard pass into 40, and Holmes getting his toes down for the TD.

    In 2 Super Bowls, Ben accounted for 12 points. Jeff Reed accounted for 11.

    In 2 Super Bowls, Ben has 0 MVPs. An award a QB has won 23 times in 44 tries.

  90. steelerdynasty2010 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:24 PM

    just a few thoughts because i’m an obvious homer and i have no shame about being one.
    1. stop throwing up QB ratings as your criteria for being a “great/elite” qb. its a JUNK STAT that no one really understands and doesnt really explain much. if you dont believe me, look at the formula they use to arrive at it.
    2. would you rather have a qb with great stats (qb rating included) and few or no rings, or one with horrible stats but several to many rings? i’ll take the latter
    3. is the object of the game to have better stats than the other team, or more points?
    4. do TEAMS evaluate their success from year to year based on their starting qb’s qb rating or is it rather based on winning or not winning the championship for that year?
    5. lastly, it’s a team game so here’s a bit of news some of you obviously dont know (and please correct me if i’m wrong), but no qb has ever won the SB playing by himself for an entire season (i dont care how great his qb rating was). and every championship qb is surrounded by a great TEAM. its pretty necessary to win a championship. perhaps not all-pros at every position, but a great TEAM nonetheless. how many times have all 22 starters from one team been named to a pro bowl in a given year?
    qbs get all the credit and all the blame so judge him by his tangible stats: W/L, TDs, INTs, Completion %, etc. leave that qb rating crap to the nerds who came up with it!

  91. jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:25 PM

    Megatron you are picking one game.

    WHO wins playoff games and Super Bowls? Nuff said pompous jerk.

    Oh and btw the QB rating while interesting is somewhat of a joke due to the point about rushing TDs set up by a lot of passing count nothing towards the rating and also the interceptions that affect the ratings sometimes are lame. One of Ben’s INTs was tipped and not his doing.

    If Ben had the line that the Pats have had for so long he would be setting passing records. Based on Bens 12 game performance it is obvious had he played all 16 games he would have had over 4000 yards and possibly been 4th or 5th overall with at team that takes a lot of pride running the ball.

  92. pigspigspigspigs says: Jan 28, 2011 2:28 PM

    Megatron:

    what were bradys passer ratings the past 3 playoff games and rodgers last week had a 55 qb rating not to mention peyton and his playoff ratings as well… so according to you there are no elite qbs

    isnt it funny that when tom brady was a game manager and caretaker of the offense they won all of their championships….when he truly became elite they stopped winning titles…the first superbowl run brady only threw 1 td pass the entire playoffs but everyone states how poorly ben played in his first superbowl.,.. but if you look at the games leading up to that beating cincy the unstoppable colts that year and denver all on the road he put up way more impressive stats and it is safe to say that big ben had a better playoff then brady did in comparison to their first title runs.

    tom brady had his first 4000 yard passing season at the age of 28

    ben was 27 when he had his first 4000 season and was on pace to throw 4000 this year if he was not out

    you can say whatever you want about how they were 3-1 w/o him this year but everyone knows they are not a superbowl team without him under center and there is no argument about that

    and why is ben punished because the steelers have a philosophy that wins as well as great talent evaluation…

    the steelers are like the tv show seinfeld, that show would not have been as funny if any of the four characters were casted differently and if it was any other qb in the league they would not have won one superbowl with this team let alone 2 going on 3… the steelers had great defenses throughout cowhers tenure is it a coicidence that when big ben got drafted the titles started to flow again? i think not

  93. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 2:32 PM

    Megatron says:
    Jan 28, 2011 2:09 PM

    Is that still shallow?
    ________

    Yes. It still doesn’t account for Roethlisberger’s rushing TD, his rushes that kept drives alive, or the two difficult, critical passes that he completed on the final drive to keep the assure the win. Plus it overlooks the fact that 1 of the interceptions was off of a tip, and that the two fumbles came from bad snaps from the UDFA Center that was pressed into the game. Finally, it ignores the fact that the Steelers were basically playing kill the clock prevent ball for the entire second half.

    The Jets game was Ben’s worst performance of the year. He wasn’t as on target as he usually is. 9 times out of 10 he completes the long ball to Sanders that resulted in an interception. 9 times out of 10 he hits Miller in stride for an easy TD, rather than making him lay out for the catch (which was overturned). He also had a bad incompletion in the end zone that he typically never makes. Still, even in what I would say was a bad game by Roethlisberger’s standards, he made several crucial plays to win the game, especially when the game was on the line.

    I can unequivocally say that I would take Roethlisberger over “Mr. October” Peyton Manning. Peyton would wilt with the O-line that Roethlisberger has had since 2006. Had it been Roethlisberger in instead of Manning for the 3rd – 6 in the Wild Card game, the Colts would have won.

  94. jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:33 PM

    wycoff —

    Right on.

    Ever notice when the haters talk about these games they only point out the calls that support their argument ? What the haters don’t want is a hold call that benefits the Steelers . Heck as you know the blatant holds that Harrison endures are legendary.

    BTW the Ben TD was just that – a td.
    Anyone can go to youtube and watch it. Look at the angle from the pylon and draw a perpendicular line.

    This brings up a tactic the haters use. They lie and lie about a call to the point that they even convince themselves it is the truth then use that “truth” as evidence.

  95. delrmi05 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:34 PM

    I hate this man off the field. Absolute scum. But I too would put him up there. You don’t need to have the stats as long as you win

  96. jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:36 PM

    As much as it drives Steeler fans crazy the Steelers when they have a big lead slow things down heavily in the 2nd half of the game. I don’t think that is true for the Pats or Colts in general.

    Again who wins the Big games? Brady and Manning are great QBs but BEN is in the mix.

  97. CKL says: Jan 28, 2011 2:38 PM

    First of all QBs do NOT have W-L records. This is not baseball, they aren’t pitchers. Only HCs and teams have W-L records. That drives me crazy…regardless of whatever QB is mentioned.

    I don’t care about fantasy football stats either. One way way I judge a player is “is he part of the reason his team wins/gets rings and seldom part of the reason his team loses/doesn’t get rings?”

    I think one of the best comments on BR I have seen recently is “He keeps both teams in the game”. He’s a guy who can suck for the better part of the day and make 5-6 “WOW” plays that make highlight reels…hence his rep. The thing about being a high risk/reward type QB like he is is that you HAVE to have a great D to make it work.

    People who talks about say Brady and Roeth swapping should consider this: Brady wouldn’t work behind a porous OL, no. He wouldn’t work with WRs used to schoolyard ball either. And Ben wouldn’t work on the Pats who have WRs who run disciplined routes and whose OL always knows exactly where their QB is (people should consider that a guy who holds the ball for a long time actually make their OL look worse than it is and that is PART of the Steelers’ OL woes, just as a guy like Manning makes his OL look better because he gets rid of it so quickly).

    Ben fits his team…that’s all that should matter. When considering “elite” I also consider…what QB could you put in other systems and how have experienced various upheavals and changes and they would still thrive or have still done well? I am not sure his style would translate to running a more disciplined O like the Pats or Colts. The Steelers let Ben be Ben…maybe because they recognize that’s the way he needs to be to help their team.

    One thing I do think Ben does not get enough credit for and never have is that he is actually a really good passer (accuracy).

    I also have no problem admitting that NO QB wins diddly poo ring wise without a great and/or opportunistic defense. NONE. Including the one for my team (Pats)

  98. 1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:38 PM

    wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:23 PM

    When has Brady ever pulled off a last minute TD drive to win a Super Bowl?
    ————————————-

    Does it have to be a TD? Will last second FG drives work. Brady did that twice. Which in my book, is pretty damned good.

  99. nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 2:44 PM

    Megatron says:
    let me see if I’m digesting what you’re getting at here. In your eyes, if Ben throws for 130 yards and 2 picks in a win, and Rivers throws for 400 yards and 4 TD’s, with no picks in a loss, then Ben played the better game?

    ========================

    It depends. If Rivers gets the bulk of his TD’s and yardage in garbage time against a prevent defense when they were already down and the game was pretty much over — then YES, definitely. (seems to happen often for him)

    Or if Rivers puts up 400 yds and 4 TD’s in a close game, but fails to make a key third down conversion or fails to convert on the final drive– but Roethlisberger does– then YES.

    How a QB plays in the clutch is huge and goes a long way between winning and losing especially in today’s game when there is so much parity and games are won and lost on a handful of plays.

    The Steelers had Kordel Stewart as a QB for years and he put up big numbers (more pro bowls than Roethlisberger so far!) but was awful in the clutch. THat is why they couldnt win a SB with him.

    A 6 yard pass on 3rd and 9 may look fantastic on the stat sheet, but does absolutely nothing to help a team win. Roethlisber converts those. Especially in big games. That’s why he is elite.

  100. cityofchampyinz says: Jan 28, 2011 2:48 PM

    Here’s how we’ll settle it.

    4th and 7, 14 seconds to go, and you’re on the 12 yard line needing a td to win the super bowl. The defense has kept you’re running game to 45 total yards so there’s no way you plan on running the ball. Who do you want as your QB on this play?

    A. Brady
    B. Manning
    C. Roethlisberger
    ============================

    Actually, we’ve already settled that. Ben WON THE SUPERBOWL with a last minute TOUCHDOWN drive that required HIM to THROW the ball to win it all.

    Manning threw an interception last year with the game on the line. Anybody remember that?

  101. scytherius says: Jan 28, 2011 2:50 PM

    Nope.

  102. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:52 PM

    japdouds says: Jan 28, 2011 1:57 PM

    Can of of the “Steelers defense wins championships” crowd answer this question?

    1. If the Steelers D is so great and the reason they win SB’s, why over Ben’s 12 playoff starts has the Steelers defense allowed an average of 21 PPG in the playoffs?

    2. Why does Peyton Manning average 22.2 PPG and Tom Brady average 24.5 PPG in the playoffs?

    3. How can the “game manager / nothing special” Ben Roethlisberger average 26.9 PPG in the playoffs?

    I anxiously await your misguided responses based in hatred and ill-formed opinions!

    ——————————————–

    How many of Ben’s points were scored by the defense or their ST? That doesn’t even mention RBs running for TDs. Or kickers kicking FGs.

    To give the QB credit for every point scored is ludicrous.

    Ben has thrown 17 TDs and 14 INTs in 12 playoff games. He barely averages 1 TD per game and averages over 1 INT per game.

    To compare:
    Manning – 29 TDs and 19 INTs in 19 playoff games
    Brady – 30 and 16 in 19
    Brees – 15 and 2 in 7
    Kurt Warner – 31 and 14 in 13
    McNabb – 24 and 17 in 16
    Hasselbeck – 18 and 9 in 11

    Ben isn’t why the Steelers have won 2 Super Bowls and going for a 3rd. Their defense is.

    steelerdynasty2010 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:24 PM

    “2. would you rather have a qb with great stats (qb rating included) and few or no rings, or one with horrible stats but several to many rings? i’ll take the latter”

    ——————————————–

    That’s not the question because it’s ridiculously loaded. Obviously everyone would take the rings. Personally I’d rather have a great QB AND the rings. It’s possible to have both.

    The number of rings doesn’t make a player a better QB. Unless you think every QB with a Super Bowl ring is somehow better than Dan Marino.

    “3. is the object of the game to have better stats than the other team, or more points?”

    ——————————————–

    That has NOTHING to do with the question at hand.

    “4. do TEAMS evaluate their success from year to year based on their starting qb’s qb rating or is it rather based on winning or not winning the championship for that year?”

    ——————————————–

    Again, irrelevant. A TEAM’S success doesn’t necessarily mean anything about the QB. You can play terribly as a team with a great QB, you can play great as a team with a terrible QB, and everything in between.

    “5. lastly, it’s a team game so here’s a bit of news some of you obviously dont know (and please correct me if i’m wrong), but no qb has ever won the SB playing by himself for an entire season (i dont care how great his qb rating was). and every championship qb is surrounded by a great TEAM. its pretty necessary to win a championship. perhaps not all-pros at every position, but a great TEAM nonetheless. how many times have all 22 starters from one team been named to a pro bowl in a given year?”

    ——————————————–

    Exactly. so why are you and other Steeler fans trying to give more credit to Ben than he’s earned? The defense deserves that praise.

    “qbs get all the credit and all the blame so judge him by his tangible stats: W/L, TDs, INTs, Completion %, etc. leave that qb rating crap to the nerds who came up with it!”

    ——————————————–

    I agree QB rating is garbage. But so is a QB’s W/L record. A bad defense will hurt a great QB’s W/L record just like a great defense will help a bad QB’s W/L record.

    If you go by tangible stats, Ben is above-average but not great.

    He, Eli, and Rivers were all drafted in 2004.

    Ben – 98 starts, 63.1 completion %, 22502 yards, 227.3 yards per game, 144 TDs, 5.1 TD%, 86 INTs, 3.1 INT%, 8.0 YPA
    Eli – 103 starts, 58.0 completion %, 22646 yards, 215.7 yards per game, 156 TDs, 4.7 TD%, 113 INTs, 3.4 INT%, 6.8 YPA
    Rivers – 80 starts, 63.7 completion %, 19661 yards, 234.1 yards per game, 136 TDs, 5.5 TD%, 58 INTs, 2.4 INT%, 8.0 YPA

    Among these 3, Ben ranks 2nd in starts, 2nd in completion %, 2nd in yards, 2nd in yards per game, 2nd in TDs, 2nd in TD %, 2nd in INTs, 2nd in INT %, and tied for 1st in YPA.

    He’s not even unanimously the best QB of his class.

    “jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:25 PM

    Oh and btw the QB rating while interesting is somewhat of a joke due to the point about rushing TDs set up by a lot of passing count nothing towards the rating and also the interceptions that affect the ratings sometimes are lame. One of Ben’s INTs was tipped and not his doing. ”

    ——————————————–

    Yes because Ben is the only QB who has had a tipped ball turn into an INT. He’s also the only QB to set up rushing TDs by passing down the field.

    These are just terrible “points”.

  103. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 2:53 PM

    nps6724 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 2:24 PM

    Look at their 2 Super Bowl wins with Ben. Every single big play in the game can be primarily attributed to someone other than Ben… Holmes turning a 10-yard pass into 40, and Holmes getting his toes down for the TD.

    ____________________

    That’s just silly. I guess the ball just magically floated to Holmes on these plays. The TD catch especially required an absolutely perfect throw. It was a spectacular play by Holmes, no doubt, but it was a spectacular throw by Roethlisberger. Not giving credit where credit is due hurts your credibility.

  104. stairwayto7 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:58 PM

    Ben is 10-2 in playoffs, Manning is a playoff choker, and Brady is a Super Bowl loser and has nto won a playoff game since the Super Bowl loss! Ben won 2 since Brady won any Super Bowls! Maybe its time since its 2011 not 2004, to ask is Brady and Manning in the same elite class with Ben or not!

  105. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 2:59 PM

    Megatron says:
    Why is it that Manning takes the blame for every Colts playoff loss, even if he has a great game? Yet Big Ben receives praise for winning a playoff game while he stinks up the joint. It doesn’t make sense. Manning had a passer rating of 108 in a loss to the Jets, and he somehow “lost” that game for the Colts, while Ben put up a rating of 33 vs. the Jets, and he “won” that game for Pitt?

    deadguy73 says:
    BR is money when it comes to critical moments.

    deadguy73 answered your question. I was there for the 26 years between Super Bowl wins. We had spectacular defenses, great receivers, better offensive lines, better running games, better special teams, and competent quarterbacks. What we didn’t have was the guy who was money when the game was on the line. He went 14-0 his rookie season. He had a lousy Super Bowl, but he made so many wild comeback plays his second season to take the first-ever sixth seed to the Super Bowl. If not for his open-field tackle in the Colts game, our season was over. It wasn’t the defense leading that final drive against Arizona. Against the Jets, when we had to have the yards, he ran and got them. When we had to make the conversion, he did. He’s not a stats player; he’s a clutch player.

  106. trickbunny says: Jan 28, 2011 3:01 PM

    Wrong wrong wrong.

    Here’s the difference between someone like Brady or Manning or Rivers, versus someone like Roethlisberger:

    The other guys (Manning and all) are so good at the QB position that any of them could have played for the Lions or Browns or Raiders or any of the other teams that seem to suck year in and year out, and they would *still* put up outrageous numbers. Those numbers wouldn’t necessarily translate to wins because teams like that always have some other vital part of the O or D missing… but the QB play itself would still be excellent- even if those guys were on these garbage teams.

    Roethlisberger has basically been extremely lucky that, from the get-go, he’s played on a team with a great running game, clutch receivers, and a monstrous defense every year. It has, year in and year out, allowed him to put up no-better-than-mediocre stats (especially in big games) and still come out a winner.

    If Roethlisberger had been drafted by a garbage team, he’d probably either be out of the league by now, or a back-up somewhere. Fact.

    So it’s not so much that he’s “up there” with the elite QBs. It’s more that it “appears” that was because of his surrounding cast. People have been saying this for years and they’re right.

  107. nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 3:03 PM

    Megatron says:

    Ben: 10/19, 2 picks, 2 fumbles, 133 yards

    Manning: 18/26, 1 TD, 225 yards, 0 picks or fumbles.

    ========================

    Manning played a great game, but failed to convert a third down at the end of the game to run out most of the clock and set up a shorter field goal. Vinitieri bailed him out by kicking a 50 yarder.

    You fail to include Roethlisberger’s running stats in your analysis. How many first downs and touchdowns did Manning get with his feet?

  108. themage78 says: Jan 28, 2011 3:04 PM

    wycoff says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:16 PM
    themage78 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 12:59 PM

    HE SUCKS. He’s not an elite QB, never is, never will be. He will do enough to allow his rushing game and Defense to win him the game.
    __________________

    You’re a buffoon. You’ve never watched a Steelers game, have you? Roethlisberger’s stats aren’t through the roof only because the defense is good. The Steelers pass to take a lead, then take the air out of the ball. For many games, the passing offense basically only plays for one half.

    Coincidentally, when the Steelers defense was weak against the pass last year, Roethlisberger threw for more yards. See the 500-yard game against Green Bay, for example.

    The Steelers rushing stats are a bit skewed this year because they played the first four games without Roethlisberger. The Steelers’ run game has not been dominant since 2004, and it has barely been decent since 2005.
    ————————————————-
    You’re the buffoon. You just proved my point. Why is he handing it off if his line and run game is so incredibly bad?
    And let’s disect you’re thing about the first four games:
    Game 1. Passing 236 Rushing 143
    Game 2. Passing 21 Rushing 106 (Lost Dixon for Game)
    Game 3. Passing 186 Rushing 201 (Complete Rout of Bucs- hence running the ball)
    Game 4. Passing 126 Rushing 84

    Total: Passing 569 Rushing 534
    Seems they had more passing yards then Rushing. And Mendenhall popped off a 50 yard run during OT one of those games to win it.
    His Defense is doing the work, They only had 11th best rushing attack in the NFL, and 14th in passing.
    Ben is only accurate because he throws underneath ALL DAY LONG. He rarely chucks it up, even when he has all the time in the world. If his line is so bad, how in the Jets game did he have time to check all his recievers, and then run it 25 yards not once, but twice?! His line isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. He never throws into tight coverage like Brady or Manning does.

    TURNOVER RATIO +17
    Their defense got them the ball 17 extra times then they turned it over.
    Avg TIME OF POSSESSION 32:24

    Defense again.

    And the Run game averaged 4.1 yards and was almost half of your plays this year. Mendenhall got 1273 yards, which is decent for being a main back. The longest passing play was only 56 yards. Kinda bad for such an Elite QB when they played some bad teams this year, like the browns and bengals twice.

  109. cantarguefacts says: Jan 28, 2011 3:08 PM

    @wycoff

    My point is that in the big game, he plays better than Manning or Brady.

    But when he is under literal pressure, physical pressure, then his true colors show. That was the point I was trying to make. Manning has strengths and weaknesses as do Brady and Big Ben

    No matter what if youre an NFL head coach then youre taking 1 of 2 QB’s to start a franchise with…Brady or Manning

    Not Roethlisberger

  110. Bubby Brister says: Jan 28, 2011 3:11 PM

    If all you need is a good defense to win, what’s Joe Flacco’s excuse? Kordell Stewart? Neil O’Donnell? Why did the ’85 Bears and ’00 Ravens only win one Super Bowl?

    How about the fact that the Brady Bunch (outside of 2001) have had a top 10 defense every time they went to/won the Super Bowl? And since the defense has started to decline, Tommy hasn’t won anything? Or the fact that Peyton didn’t win jack until the year the Colts defense decided to come together and play amazing football during the playoffs?

    Wanna talk about that overrated QB rating?

    Where’s the talk about Brady’s 49.1 rating against the Ravens last year? His 66.4 in the AFC Champ against the Chargers 2 years ago? in 2006 79.5 against the Colts, 57.6 against the Chargers. 74 against the Broncos in ’05. How about Peyton’s 71.9, 39.6 and 81.9 the year he won it all? Aaron Rodgers 55.4 just LAST WEEK?

    The only guy I can’t say anything about is Drew Brees. He’s the only “elite” quarterback who’s put up anything over 90 consistently.

    The point is, you’re all selective with this crap. You either don’t like Ben, don’t like the Steelers, or both and you cling onto anything you can get to knock him.

    You don’t go to 3 Super Bowls by accident.

  111. brodell says: Jan 28, 2011 3:15 PM

    The Steelers have a great deal of history behind their storied “Steel-Curtain” defense. It seems every single new player strives to live up to the great defenses that played before them. They have a banner at their training facility that says “The Standard is the standard”.

    For the past 40 years, the Steelers have a reputation of great defense. It is expected! It is the norm for any Pittsburgh player….it is also the reason why Pittsburgh quarterbacks don’t have the stats of a Brady or Manning. More often than not, Pittsburgh has the shorter field, they run the ball often, so Ben can only get what yards remain. Hard to get great looking stats on a possesion that includes half the plays being runs.

    Ben is also the toughest SOB out there. This guy played with a broken nose AND broken foot at the same time time and still scrambled for first downs when he had to.

    I think we are in for a great game between 2 tough, strong quarterbacks. I think the winner will be whoever has the ball last.

  112. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 3:16 PM

    jamson64 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 2:33 PM

    Right on.

    Ever notice when the haters talk about these games they only point out the calls that support their argument ? What the haters don’t want is a hold call that benefits the Steelers . Heck as you know the blatant holds that Harrison endures are legendary.
    _____________________

    They whine about the refs because it’s all they have. They’re not interested in being fair, so they’ll ignore the constant holding of Harrison. They can’t build themselves up, so they try to tear others down. It’s the standard operating procedure of the sore loser.

    The officiating whining use to bother me, but now it makes me smile. They’re pathetic, and making up things about the refs is their coping mechanism.

  113. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM

    giablommi says:

    “I honestly don’t know how Brady gets considered the greatest of all time. He hasn’t won anything without cheating.”
    ^^^^^
    Well, since you want to play that game, the Steelers were admittedly fueled up on steroids for their first 4 titles and the fifth is widely regarded as …

    Sure he was an idiot for going there. Uncalled for–and untrue. Dimwits have distorted that whole situation (because Goodell mishandled it). So you decided to immitate one idiot and distort situations involving our team? Heard of the high road?

    The Steelers were not fueled up on steroids for their first four titles. Steroids were used by players throughout the league from the late 60s to the late 80s when they were banned. Even playing field. No ban = no cheating. Our defensive players chose not to take them. A couple of offensive linemen did. Since the most famous ‘roid user was Alzado of the Browns/Broncos/Raiders, who campaigned for the ban, the only reason people rant about the Steelers is they need to discredit our wins the way they discredit yours. Infantile. So is the notion that the NFL fixed SBXL :roll: Yeah, there were bad calls–and some went against us. That game has been analyzed and re-analyzed by experts. But 21-10 isn’t close. It is ridiculous, though, that the league didn’t immediately address its officiating problems. But here we are in 2011 and this season they were still apologizing after the fact for their bad calls.

  114. bcgreg says: Jan 28, 2011 3:21 PM

    While I respect Ben’s game, he is NOT in Brady’s or Manning’s class as a QB. I understand the “ring” argument, but Terry Bradshaw has 4 of them, and he is NEVER in the conversation of “greatest QB of all time”. So, the argument about who’s the best has a little more to it than just ring count.

    Most talk about Ben having the defense and run game as the main reason why Pittsburgh wins. Since Manning, Brady, and Ben have been in the league, their numbers average out as such:

    In Manning’s 13 years, the Colts, on average, have ranked 21st in rushing yards, 3rd in passing yards, and 16th in defense (Points allowed, not Yards allowed). The year the Colts won the SB, they ranked 18th in rushing, 2nd in passing, and 23rd in defense (again, points allowed).

    In Brady’s 10 years as a starter (I did not factor in 2000 when he didn’t play), the Pats ranked 15th in rushing yards, 10 in passing yards, and 7th in defense. In 2001, the Pats ranked 13th in rushing, 22 in passing, and 6th on defense. In 2003, it was 27th, 9th, and 1st. In 2004, it was 7th, 11th, and 2nd respectively.

    In Ben’s 7 years, the Steelers have ranked 11th in rushing yards, 18th in passing yards, and 5th in defense. When Pitt won the SB in 2005, they ranked 5th in rush yards and 1st in points allowed. They ranked 24th in passing. In 2008, the ranks were 23rd, 1st, and 17th.

    With the exception of the Colts, you need a good defense to win the SB. What the rushing and passing numbers show is how each team got there. The Steelers lean on defense and running more than the Colts and Patriots. Period.

    I’m not saying Ben is bad. He’s a very good QB, but he is not in Manning’s OR Brady’s class as a QB. Ask yourself this. If you could have Brady, Manning, or Ben in their prime as your QB, who would you take? Sorry, but Ben would be 3rd. I bet some would say Brees as an answer even though he’s not one of the choices.

    For individual numbers:
    Brady is 111-32 for a .776 win %, 2.53 TD/Int, 95.2 QB rating. Brady is 14-5 in the playoffs with 3 rings, (about to be) 2 league MVPs, 6 Pro Bowls.
    Manning is 141-67 for a .678 win %, 2.01 TD/Int, 94.9 QB rating. Manning is 8-9 in the playoffs with 7 one and dones, 1 ring, 4 MVPs, 11 Pro Bowls.
    Ben is 69-29 for a .704 win %, 1.67 TD/Int, 92.5 QB rating. Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs, 2 rings, ZERO MVPs, ONE Pro Bowl.

  115. Steeler's Will says: Jan 28, 2011 3:22 PM

    Doesn’t matter where he’s ranked. BB is a very servicable QB, capable of winning a game by making plays when plays fall apart.

    Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers: all are proven winners, but you can keep ‘em. They seem to be doing fine where they’re at, as is Ben where he’s at. It doesn’t matter to me if he’s on Yahoo Fantasy’s all time greatest list or not (I’m not much of a gambler). He mixes a thimble-full of athleticism, with toughness, leadership, and improvisation, and voila! Super Bowl!

  116. boisestatewhodat says: Jan 28, 2011 3:22 PM

    So is Brees but of course, he’s never mentioned. In my opinion the measurement of a quarterback’s legacy is in post season wins and right now Ben and Brady have more than Brees and Manning (rings). Other than MVPs, Manning should not be revered as King…unfortunately Brady is…then Ben…then Manning and Brees.

  117. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 3:28 PM

    wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 2:53 PM

    That’s just silly. I guess the ball just magically floated to Holmes on these plays. The TD catch especially required an absolutely perfect throw. It was a spectacular play by Holmes, no doubt, but it was a spectacular throw by Roethlisberger. Not giving credit where credit is due hurts your credibility.

    —————————————

    The 1st throw was nothing special, a simple 10-yard throw to an open WR. Holmes made it a 40-yard play. The 2nd throw was a very good throw, but it was an even better play by Holmes.

    My point is there isn’t 1 single play in either Super Bowl in which Roethlisberger was the key player. Even on the biggest play of his career, he was outshone. And the fact Holmes won the MVP supports that point.

  118. ppie12 says: Jan 28, 2011 3:28 PM

    THANK YOU!

  119. cityofchampyinz says: Jan 28, 2011 3:28 PM

    THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS THE “W”

  120. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 3:29 PM

    cantarguefacts says:
    Jan 28, 2011 3:08 PM
    @wycoff

    My point is that in the big game, he plays better than Manning or Brady.

    But when he is under literal pressure, physical pressure, then his true colors show.
    ____________________

    Exactly- Roethlisbergers true colors show and he excels where practically everyone else will fail.

    Brady and Manning are robots. They’re fantastic when their system is working perfectly. However, if things don’t go just so, then they fall apart. This is especially true for Manning.

    Roethlisberger isn’t the robot that Manning and Brady is. He’s a gamer, and he looks to make the big play. That’s the real difference between these QBs.

    Roethlisberger would put up massive stats if given the opportunity. If the Steelers kept their feet on the gas all game every game, then he’d have impressive garbage time stats. However, the Steelers have the luxury of not having to do that, so often the passing game is mothballed by the 4th quarter.

    Roethlisberger might not be as good at running a precision-timing, well-oiled machine type O as Manning or Brady, but he’s more capable of dealing with things if the plan falls apart. Roethlisberger is an old-school QB.

  121. bcgreg says: Jan 28, 2011 3:33 PM

    Amendment to my last post.

    Brady did not play in 2008. In that year, the Pats were 6th in rushing, 12th in passing, and 8th in defense.

  122. philbirds says: Jan 28, 2011 3:35 PM

    Top 5:

    Brady
    Manning
    Vick
    Ben R.
    Kolb

    who wants Kolb?

  123. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 3:37 PM

    “themage78 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 3:04 PM

    Ben is only accurate because he throws underneath ALL DAY LONG. He rarely chucks it up, even when he has all the time in the world.”

    This is priceless.

    That proves that you’ve never watched the Steelers play. What you’re describing is basically the opposite of Roethlisberger’s game. Roethlisberger goes deep all the time. He is in the top five ALL TIME is yards per passing attempt. He rarely dumps the ball off to the running backs and tight ends, though he has improved on that this year.

    Why would you bother arguing on a subject about which you obviously know nothing?

  124. pigspigspigspigs says: Jan 28, 2011 3:39 PM

    themage78

    ben has one of the highest ypa in nfl history and is one of the best deep ball passers in the game

    and i am pretty sure that most teams would rather have ben over brady or manning simply b/c of the age factor….ben has 7-9 more seasons left where those two have 3-5

    brady or manning on the steelers would not have won one ring…have you ever watched a colts game whenever his wr are covered or the pocket collapses he dives on the ground like a baby, if he was a steeler he would be diving on the ground10 times a game

  125. giablommi says: Jan 28, 2011 3:44 PM

    @ wycoff

    No sour grapes here bro. First, I had no dog in the fight (so to speak) in SB 40, in fact I currently consider the Steelers to be the least of all evils in the AFC pantheon of Jets/Colts/Ravens/Chargers and have been rooting like hell for Pittsburgh this postseason to beat Baltimore and nyj.

    Second, I think many of my fellow N.E. fans would concur that we have no reason for sour grapes considering the Pats have beaten Pittsburgh in every meaningful matchup in the last decade.

    Third, to your point regarding casual fans and John Madden, I am not a casual fan and I haven’t taken Madden’s opinion with more than a grain of salt since he opined that the Pats should take a knee with a minue to go in Super Bowl 36.

    Be that as it may, I don’t begrudge Steelers fans anything and congratulate you for your team’s success, however, when your fellow fans attempt to discredit the Patriots success then it is necessary to point out (as I was doing) the slippery slope that sort of hypocrisy can go down.

  126. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 3:50 PM

    “nps6724 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 3:28 PM

    My point is there isn’t 1 single play in either Super Bowl in which Roethlisberger was the key player.”

    And my point is that that’s a stupid point, considering that you just conceeded the Holmes TD throws. Catches take two players, and both Roethlisberger and Holmes made spectacular plays on that.

    Also, what about the 3rd and 28 completion in Super Bowl XL? That was an incredible play.

  127. johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 3:51 PM

    98 yards to go and your team is down by 5. Who do you take.

    Well, the Colts couldn’t get a first down against the Jets when they needed it the most (the Steelers got 2 of them).

    Tom Brady is really good at winning games, when 3 points does the job. In the 2006 AFC championship game, the Pats were down by 4 and Brady’s last pass was picked. In the 2007 Super bowl, Brady had to drive more than 20 yards to get his team in field goal position, so he threw 4 incomplete passes.

    Ben routinely caps off a 2 minute drive with a TD. If there’s 3 seconds left in the game, it might turn into 15 seconds because of his scrambling ability.

    If I need a sure touchdown, I’m taking Ben. If I need back-to-back-to-back-to-back touchdown drive, then it’s Manning all of the way. If I need 20 yards to get a field goal, I’ll go with Brady. Why not? That’s where these players earned their bread and butter.

    By the way, Brady threw for 170 yards and the Pats defense held that Rams offense to under 20 points in Brady’s first Super Bowl. Don’t act like he carried that team.

  128. Bubby Brister says: Jan 28, 2011 3:56 PM

    “I’m not saying Ben is bad. He’s a very good QB, but he is not in Manning’s OR Brady’s class as a QB. Ask yourself this. If you could have Brady, Manning, or Ben in their prime as your QB, who would you take? Sorry, but Ben would be 3rd. I bet some would say Brees as an answer even though he’s not one of the choices.”

    And those who did so can enjoy their 4,800 yard seasons and 13-3 records.

    I’ll be over here watching the Super Bowl.

    Brady is at least debatable and I can give somebody the benefit of the doubt for taking him. But anybody who thinks they have a better chance of winning a Super Bowl with Manning over Ben is a fanboy moron.

    Turn off Sportscenter and watch a game every once in a while.

    I love how people have been saying how overrated the Steelers defense is all year long, but now that they’re in Dallas, they’re suddenly great. What are you guys gonna do if you wake up one day and Ben has 4 or 5 rings? I mean really? Is this defense suddenly going to be considered one of the best of all time? You people are in denial.

  129. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:00 PM

    Under Ben, the Steelers have had only 2 seasons with fewer than 10 wins (’06 and ’09). Both times were the only 2 seasons in which the defense WASN’T in the top 10 in points allowed. They have been 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in points allowed in every other season. They’ve been 1st 3 times and have reached the Super Bowl in all 3.

    This is a team that went 3-1 with Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon filling in for Ben. They’re 8-6 without Ben historically. That’s an amazing record considering A) it’s extremely difficult to win with a backup QB in general, and B) their backups have been bad or inexperienced QBs like Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, and Dennis Dixon.

  130. SteelTown6 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:03 PM

    1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:38 PM

    wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:23 PM

    When has Brady ever pulled off a last minute TD drive to win a Super Bowl?
    ————————————-
    Does it have to be a TD? Will last second FG drives work. Brady did that twice. Which in my book, is pretty damned good.

    So Adam Vinatieri won those games, not Tom Brady, right?

  131. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 4:03 PM

    @bcgreg …

    It’s not completely true to say Bradshaw has four rings but is never mentioned among the best QBs of all time. You also don’t hear Stabler’s name mentioned, or Staubach’s. But in the 70s, they were the stars of the argument–the Brady, Manning, and Brees/Rivers/Roethlisberger of their day.

    Bradshaw was an honorable mention for the NFL’s 75th anniversary team of the best players ever at their respective positions. And he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

    What happened with Bradshaw and the others is that the West Coast offense came into widespread use immediately after they retired. Where they played in balanced offenses, suddenly guys were putting up huge passing numbers. That’s also why small-minded fools like Peter King, who are incapable of looking at a player within the context of his time, minimize receivers who played prior to the West Coast onslaught. People became obsessed with Fantasy stats and unable to judge players by their impact on the game while they played.

    Basically, guys like Bradshaw, Staubach, and Stabler haven’t stood the test of time. That’s why they’re not in the all-time greats discussion. Neither are Jim Kelly–or really John Elway. But the Stats Wizards can say what they like. Just thinking about watching John Elway manage a drive still gives me goosebumps.

  132. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:15 PM

    wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 3:50 PM

    “nps6724 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 3:28 PM

    My point is there isn’t 1 single play in either Super Bowl in which Roethlisberger was the key player.”

    And my point is that that’s a stupid point, considering that you just conceeded the Holmes TD throws. Catches take two players, and both Roethlisberger and Holmes made spectacular plays on that.

    Also, what about the 3rd and 28 completion in Super Bowl XL? That was an incredible play.

    ———————————————

    Yet no one replays Ben’s throw, just Holmes’ toe-tap. Every great throw or catch requires both a throw and a catch. But one can be great without the other being great.

    I don’t particularly remember the 3rd-and-28 play. Which again helps my point. How big of a play is it when the only people who recall it are that team’s fans? But even if we count it, that’s 1 play in 2 games. Not exactly a great ratio.

  133. mataug says: Jan 28, 2011 4:18 PM

    The Colts have had 6 playoff games with 4 losses since their Super Bowl victory after the 2006 season.
    2007 –> 24-21 lead with 5 mins left in 4th qtr
    2008 –> 17-14 lead with less than a minute left in 4th qtr
    2009 –> 17-16 lead with less than 6 mins left in 4th qtr
    2010 –> 16-14 lead with less than a minute left in 4th qtr
    The Colts defense or special teams haven’t scored a single TD or safety in any of those 6 games.

    The Steelers have played six playoff games since 2006 (5-1 record). Their defense/special teams have had 4 TDs in those 6 games (with none in their 1 loss).

    I’m not saying. I’m just saying….

  134. cincycoltsfan says: Jan 28, 2011 4:29 PM

    This is a great debate. That’s why it generates so many opinions. They all bring something to the table. It’s clearly not about numbers with Ben, but the play he made to bury the Jets is a good example of why he deserves to be in the conversation. But be careful. I still remeber Dan Shaughnessy’s column before the Super Bowl last year about how Manning was better than Brady. Where does the argument go if the Steelers lose? I also like the Steeler fan comments about all they care about is that he wins. Clearly. The guy was a train wreck personally. Nobody knows how Brady, Manning or Rapelisberger would do if they swapped teams. Personally, I’m glad Manning is the Colts qb. Just like I’m sure the Pats and Steeler fans appreciate their guys. The only thing I have left to say is: Go Packers!

  135. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 4:29 PM

    giablommi says:
    Jan 28, 2011 3:44 PM
    @ wycoff

    Second, I think many of my fellow N.E. fans would concur that we have no reason for sour grapes considering the Pats have beaten Pittsburgh in every meaningful matchup in the last decade.
    ________________________

    They haven’t played a truly meaningful game since 2004.

    The Pats beat the Steelers in two AFC Championship games- one with Kordell Stewart as the starting QB, the other with Roethlisberger as a rookie.

    I was hoping for a rematch in Foxborough this year. Too bad the Pats couldn’t pull through.

    Anyway, I’m not someone who focuses on Spygate. However, I do enjoy ripping up the Super Bowl XL officiating canard.

  136. hamburghlar says: Jan 28, 2011 4:41 PM

    Look, idiots.. A great QB isn’t only measured on fantasy stats, it’s called winning and making BIG PLAYS as well. Who would you rather have leading your team, Matt Schaub or Ben? If you say Schaub, you’re not only way too much into fantasy football, you’re living in a fantasy world in general. Yes, he’s a huge douche off the field, we ALL know that, but he’s making up for it slowly and STILL winning/making huge plays.

    @seanmmartin: A great defense will make any quarterback look good.

    Kerry Collins
    Joe Flacco
    Eli Manning
    Mark Sanchez

    I’m suprised you can even read the articles on this site, for as stupid as this post is. 2 SB rings, 12 + comeback wins in the 4th quarter, a TON of wins and records, etc etc. Defense definitely helps so that it isn’t always on his shoulders, but if any of the 4 you mentioned had a game to win squarely on them, your team would be $hit out of luck. Thanks for making the other haters in this thread look smarter.

  137. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 4:42 PM

    nps6724 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 4:15 PM

    Yet no one replays Ben’s throw, just Holmes’ toe-tap. Every great throw or catch requires both a throw and a catch.
    __________________

    That’s absurd. They have to show the throw, because that’s how the ball gets into his hand. They emphasize the tight window into which the ball was thrown. You’re really stretching here.

    “I don’t particularly remember the 3rd-and-28 play. Which again helps my point.”

    Which goes to show that you have a selective memory to go along with your brain-bending logic. You have decided that Ben hasn’t made big plays in the Super Bowl, and you twist the facts beyond recognition to support your point.

  138. themage78 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:43 PM

    I love how people have been saying how overrated the Steelers defense is all year long, but now that they’re in Dallas, they’re suddenly great. What are you guys gonna do if you wake up one day and Ben has 4 or 5 rings? I mean really? Is this defense suddenly going to be considered one of the best of all time? You people are in denial.

    ————————————————-
    Yes, it is. I don’t see Ben running down the sideline, getting tripped at the 6 yard line, going airborne, and still making a TD after a 30 yard runback. but I see Troy Polumalu do just that. I see the defense make plays 24/7. They don’t stop. Their bad day is other people’s best days. Plus you don’t go 3-1 when you have 21 yards passing and still win a game.

  139. bcgreg says: Jan 28, 2011 4:44 PM

    @ johntonioholmes

    In the games you reference and disparage Brady, he got the ball back with 30 seconds to go. You don’t engineer drives with 30 seconds left. Get real. And if you only need 3 to win, then who cares if you only get 3? Geez.

  140. bcgreg says: Jan 28, 2011 4:50 PM

    @ Deb

    Bradshaw, Staubach, and Stabler WERE the stars of the 70s. No dispute there. They have not stood the test of time because they don’t measure up to Unitas, Montana, Brady, Manning, and Marino as QBs. Not that their stats don’t measure up but because they’re not as good as QBs. I understand that their stat lines are less because of a different style of play, but if they were truly “pantheon” guys like Unitas, who played in the 50s, then they would have stood the test of time.

  141. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:55 PM

    “wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 4:42 PM

    That’s absurd. They have to show the throw, because that’s how the ball gets into his hand. They emphasize the tight window into which the ball was thrown. You’re really stretching here.”

    —————————————

    The throw is left out of many great catches. The highlights just start with the ball in the air. It’s not uncommon. And as many times as I’ve seen this clip, it usually starts with the ball in the air.

    Which goes to show that you have a selective memory to go along with your brain-bending logic. You have decided that Ben hasn’t made big plays in the Super Bowl, and you twist the facts beyond recognition to support your point.”

    —————————————

    No network or highlight show EVER brings up this play. So I guess everyone but Steeler fans have selective memory, huh?

    2 TDs in 2 Super Bowls. 0 MVPs in 2 Super Bowls. That’s not greatness.

  142. rockinron2 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:57 PM

    So how do you explain the Steelers being 6-8 when Troy is out? Shouldn’t an elite QB be able to still lead his team to a win? The rest of the defense is still pretty good.

  143. silkyjohnson937 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:05 PM

    All im going to say is rothlisberger did something that manning and brady couldnt do and thats beat the jets

  144. wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 5:08 PM

    nps6724 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 4:55 PM

    No network or highlight show EVER brings up this play. So I guess everyone but Steeler fans have selective memory, huh?
    _____________________________

    Any show about Super Bowl XL has this play. It’s not as generally known because people have decided to focus on the ginned up officiating controversy rather than the actual game.

    Your other point is just too stupid for words. You must watch that highlight with the sound off. Even if the clip doesn’t actually show the ball leaving his hand, the perfect, precision throw is invariably mentioned.

    You don’t give credit where credit is obviously due, so you have no credibility. If Roethlisberger doesn’t get any credit from you for the winning drive in Super Bowl XLIII, then he’ll never get credit from you. Your position is moronic and biased.

  145. johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 5:08 PM

    @bcgreg

    I tend to be a little bitter when people overstate Brady’s greatness. I think he is obviously in the top two or three in the league, but people talk about him like he’s Jesus.

    From 2003-2007 the Pats had a top 10 defense almost every year. They didn’t in 2005. So before everyone attributes Ben’s record to his defense, remember that the Pats have had some pretty good defenses, too. And Brady has had a better o-line since at least 2006.

    Ben also has a way better yards per attempt, and virtually the same completion percentage as Brady. with a YPA as high as Ben’s his passing percentage should be much lower.

    If it’s about wins, Ben is up there with the best of them. If it’s about clutch drives, he’s probably the best since Elway. If it’s about statistics, he’s pretty similar to Brady with less touchdown passes. (He also never had Moss.)

    So, yeah, currently, there are 3 quarterbacks who just win–Ben is one of them.

  146. 1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:12 PM

    @SteelTown6 says: Jan 28, 2011 4:03 PM

    1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 2:38 PM

    -wycoff says: Jan 28, 2011 1:23 PM

    -When has Brady ever pulled off a last minute TD -drive to win a Super Bowl?
    ————————————-

    —Does it have to be a TD? Will last second FG —drives work. Brady did that twice. Which in my —book, is pretty damned good.
    ——————

    So Adam Vinatieri won those games, not Tom Brady, right?

    ——————

    Yes! Exactly! Adam Vinatieri took the team down the field, then kicked the FG’s. Brady had nothing to do with those wins! Idiot!

    That is like saying Mendenhall won the Jets game because he ran the ball in and Ben really didn’t contribute. Idiot!

    The point is, it takes a team. Ben and Holmes didn’t win that SB because he threw and the other caught the winning TD. That TD doesn’t matter without the rest of the game, when all those other players contributed.

  147. ihateannouncers says: Jan 28, 2011 5:15 PM

    How would Ben and Manning do as the Pat’s QB, or Ben and Brady do as the Colts QB?? Probably ALOT better than Manning and Brady would do as the Steelers QB. Ben’s ability to make something out of nothing isn’t a fantasy stat but it is huge.

  148. steelernation1 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:18 PM

    @giablommi

    discredit Patriots success?they cheated alot are u forgetting that..there are ? next to there rings also.

    and to those that say ben dont go deep?u r way off base..

    just a bunch of ignorant haters who only wish ben was on there team,,and of course i see one assclown throwing the ben rape thing out there..will u ever grow up and look at facts?

  149. jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:18 PM

    Bubby Brister Said: I love how people have been saying how overrated the Steelers defense is all year long, but now that they’re in Dallas, they’re suddenly great. What are you guys gonna do if you wake up one day and Ben has 4 or 5 rings? I mean really? Is this defense suddenly going to be considered one of the best of all time? You people are in denial. *****

    ————————————————–

    Funny ain’t it.

  150. jamson64 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:20 PM

    nps . you have a very simplistic view. If Ben stays out of trouble in his personal life he is going to the HOF.
    Live with it.

  151. eezyxyz says: Jan 28, 2011 5:25 PM

    Jan 28, 2011 1:01 PM, cornellsteelers says: “From 1992-2003…..From 2004-2010……. Hmm, I wonder what changed in 2004?”

    I don’t think anybody would dispute that Ben is a huge upgrade over Neil O’Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox and whoever else played QB in the years before 2004. But, being better than those QBs most certainly does not make Ben elite. Those were all just highly mediocre QBs (which is me being nice)…and the Steelers still won a division title with Maddox and Tomczak, went to two championship games with Stewart and went to a Superbowl with O’Donnell, proving that they didn’t win solely with the QB position .

  152. discosucs2005 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:25 PM

    “if you ask football people, they’re going to put Ben Roethlisberger up there with [Manning and Brady] almost unanimously,”

    Did anyone else read this portion of the article? The point of what Bill is talking about is right here. Everyone in this thread can spout their opinion as much as they wish, but people who know football, according to a Super Bowl winning GM, would say that Ben is up in the top 3.

    You guys can continue on with your debate all you want, but, and this is for people like nps6724, just know that people, or at least one person, who “knows football” disagrees with you. So continue siting how the highlight is shown as evidence.

  153. 1seriously1 says: Jan 28, 2011 5:33 PM

    @johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 3:51 PM

    Ben routinely caps off a 2 minute drive with a TD. If there’s 3 seconds left in the game, it might turn into 15 seconds because of his scrambling ability.
    ——————————-

    Prove it. Give examples of these routinely capped off 2 minute drives with TD’s. I could easily make that blanket statement about Brees, Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc… “Routinely” is relative. Could be twice a season to someone, could be 3 drives per game. And is he going 80 yards in 2 minutes? Maybe 30 yards in 2 minutes? Come one, give examples that sets him apart from the other QB’s that are considered Elite.

  154. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 5:40 PM

    @bcgreg …

    Yes, Unitas is the man, like Slingin’ Sammy Baugh and Montana. They are still in the discussion long after retirement.

    Marino? All stats and no rings … on the list of greatest all time? No way. Sorry.

    But you can’t argue Brady and Manning now. That’s like arguing Bradshaw, Stabler, and Staubach in the 70s. Yes, they’re the best today, but will people in the future who never saw them play still be impressed?

    I think Roethlisberger’s probably the best clutch QB playing today, which–as Polian says–puts him in the conversation with Brady and Manning (though I think Brady is the best QB and Manning second). But whether we’ll still be talking about any of them two, six, or more decades from now … who knows?

  155. swinbun says: Jan 28, 2011 6:46 PM

    1seriously1 says:
    Jan 28, 2011 5:33 PM
    @johntonioholmes says: Jan 28, 2011 3:51 PM

    Ben routinely caps off a 2 minute drive with a TD. If there’s 3 seconds left in the game, it might turn into 15 seconds because of his scrambling ability.
    ——————————-

    Prove it. Give examples of these routinely capped off 2 minute drives with TD’s. I could easily make that blanket statement about Brees, Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc… “Routinely” is relative. Could be twice a season to someone, could be 3 drives per game. And is he going 80 yards in 2 minutes? Maybe 30 yards in 2 minutes? Come one, give examples that sets him apart from the other QB’s that are considered Elite.

    ————————————————–I’ll give you a few….
    2008 @ Baltimore with the division, #1 seed/Homefield advantage on the line – 90 yards to go to win the game. Scrambles out of the pocket, buys time, and throws a dart to Holmes for the winning score.

    2009 against Green Bay – 4th down td pass for about 20 yards to the side of the end zone as time expires to Mike Wallace

    2008 Super Bowl – Do I really need to explain this one to you??? As good a game winning drive as you will ever see. Someone needs to explain to me how this is any less clutch than Montana against Cincinnati.

  156. nickster2k says: Jan 28, 2011 7:43 PM

    nps6724 says:
    Yet no one replays Ben’s throw, just Holmes’ toe-tap. Every great throw or catch requires both a throw and a catch. But one can be great without the other being great.

    I don’t particularly remember the 3rd-and-28 play.

    ———————————————–

    Roethlisberger threw that pass to Holmes into triple coverage, but put it where only Holmes could catch it. A great catch AND throw. Plus, the play before he threw a potential TD pass that Holmes dropped.

    Since you don’t remember the 3rd and 28 in SB XL, I’ll assume you were watching America’s Top Model or something like that. You should probably just stay out of this conversation.

  157. donnieiris says: Jan 28, 2011 8:42 PM

    wow..for everybody that just cannot except the fact that ben is a winner and he just doesnt have the stats to be considered a great QB just go ahead and read the research japdouds has for us. It seems to me like he has some stats as well.

  158. nps6724 says: Jan 28, 2011 9:12 PM

    Any show about Super Bowl XL has this play. It’s not as generally known because people have decided to focus on the ginned up officiating controversy rather than the actual game.

    Your other point is just too stupid for words. You must watch that highlight with the sound off. Even if the clip doesn’t actually show the ball leaving his hand, the perfect, precision throw is invariably mentioned.

    You don’t give credit where credit is obviously due, so you have no credibility. If Roethlisberger doesn’t get any credit from you for the winning drive in Super Bowl XLIII, then he’ll never get credit from you. Your position is moronic and biased.

    —————————————–

    You’re the one with a dog in this fight, not me. It’s obvious you are the biased party. I have no issue with Ben. He’s an above-average QB who is at the very least trying to be a better person. Good for him.

    So it takes a show DEVOTED to Super Bowl XL for it to be highlighted? Woooooooow, I’m impressed with its greatness. Are you aware that there are highlight of EVERY game EVERY week and lots of plays are on those highlight reels that aren’t great plays? Shocking, I know.

    What exactly did Ben do on that game-winning drive in Super bowl XLIII? Take off your Ben-colored glasses and actually pay attention. He threw a 10-yard pass that HOLMES turned into 40 yards with zero help from Ben. Then on the TD, Ben made a very good throw but HOLMES made an EVEN BETTER catch. HOLMES was the star of that game, which is why he won the MVP over Ben. So Ben had 1 very good play that required an ever better effort from another player while that same player had 2 great plays.

    It makes sense for you to not give Holmes credit since he’s gone. But I’m surprised so many Steeler fans give their defense so little credit for their success.

    Only 6 WRs have ever won the Super Bowl MVP. 2 of them have done it with Ben at QB. That says it all.

    nps . you have a very simplistic view. If Ben stays out of trouble in his personal life he is going to the HOF.
    Live with it.

    —————————————–

    If he makes it in, good for him. He wouldn’t be the worst player (or person) selected. And really, I doubt his personal issues would have anything to do with whether or not he gets in. The Pro Football HOF doesn’t (or at least isn’t supposed to) take off-the-field issues into account like baseball’s does.

    He has way too many years left in the NFL to make a statement about the HOF anyway. If he plays much the same as he already has, he’ll make the HOF easily. 2 Super Bowl rings + at least above-average play usually = HOF. And he’s already hit both those marks.

    He’s not still elite. Yet, anyway.

    Since you don’t remember the 3rd and 28 in SB XL, I’ll assume you were watching America’s Top Model or something like that. You should probably just stay out of this conversation.

    ——————————————–

    That’s the best you could come up with? And here I thought Pittsburgh fans had more imagination than that. You sound like a Cowboy fan.

    “if you ask football people, they’re going to put Ben Roethlisberger up there with [Manning and Brady] almost unanimously,”

    Did anyone else read this portion of the article? The point of what Bill is talking about is right here. Everyone in this thread can spout their opinion as much as they wish, but people who know football, according to a Super Bowl winning GM, would say that Ben is up in the top 3.

    You guys can continue on with your debate all you want, but, and this is for people like nps6724, just know that people, or at least one person, who “knows football” disagrees with you. So continue siting how the highlight is shown as evidence.

    ——————————————–

    And as soon as Polian says something you disagree with, he’s an idiot. Which is what happens to all of these guys depending on what statement they make.

    You can find “football people” who would disagree with him as well. And who exactly are the “football people”? MATT MILLEN is a “football person” for God’s sake. For Polian’s statement to mean anything, it would depend on who he is talking to. There are just as many idiots among the NFL’s ranks as there are geniuses.

    There are “football people” who have Brees in the same category as Manning and Brady and some who don’t. Who do you trust? It’s all opinion.

    If all these guys were so smart, there wouldn’t be so many firings year after year.

  159. popolover says: Jan 28, 2011 9:35 PM

    The great ‘OZ” has spoken! There are people who say Polian is a genius……… If you read between the lines, this is just a way for Bill to get in the press. He is using Ben. He always has a reason or angle.

  160. popolover says: Jan 28, 2011 9:39 PM

    @deb

    FYI – In Polian’s world/ reign you don’t get an opinion…. you are a female.

  161. blitzburg10 says: Jan 28, 2011 11:21 PM

    First of all Bill Polian knows more football and has access to more people who know more pro football ,than all of us combined…..Having an idiot on here saying that Ben only throws underneath and never throws down the field……is the HEIGHT OF STUIDITY!!

    Oh yeah genius…you must have missed that 88 yard drive against the Ravens to win the division 2 years ago…all checkdowns in less than 2 minutes,I guess? Then 80 plus yards in the superbowl vs Arizona…with an unbelivable throw to Holmes to win it…..Or the pass to 25 yard frozen rope pass to Wallace on the games last play to beat Green Bay last year….which by the way completed a 503 yard passing day…so much for throwing underneath,all checkdowns I guess…….Yeah that was a beautiful 58 yard ”UNDERNEATH” pass to Antonio Brown 2 weeks ago on 3rd and 18 to send the Ravens home…

    Having an opinion is one thing..being completely ignorant is another….How in the hell does Ben have the highest yds per completion avearge among all active qb’s at 12.7,if he doesnt throw downfield? Anyone who has watched this guy play with any knowledge at all about football knows he is always looking to go downfield,he hates throwing checkdowns and giving up on plays…

    Say what you want,make yourself believe what you want,what Roetlisberger has accomplished in 7 years at the age of 28 years old is amazing…He is one game from his 3rd Lombardi trophy,is 10-2 in the post season…has never lost a playoff game at home…has finished in the top 5 in qb rating in 5 of the 7 years he has played….His record as a starter is 77-31,has 20 fourth quarter combacks and 26 game winning drives…

    All his detractors point to his low qb rating in the first superbowl win at Seattle…The guy was in his second year,after going 14-0 as a starter and to the AFC title game the year before..Check out his ratings in the 3 ”ROAD” playoff games at Cincy,Indy,and Denver to get to that superbowl..He was awesome …AT THE AGE OF 22 YEARS OLD!!!

    Nobody,Brady included,is better than Big Ben in the clutch…he has proved it in big games from day one..including this years 2 playoff games…As Mike Tomlin often says ”IN BIG SPOTS..THIS GUY DONT BLINK”….Bill Polian is only cofirming what ”real’ pro football know…Roethlisberger is not only top 3…but if he wins next week….he may be at the very top of that list…and is just hitting the prime of his career.

  162. Megatron says: Jan 28, 2011 11:22 PM

    What I find most troubling about the Steeler fan base arguing with the non homer fans of the other 31 teams about Ben’s greatness is how they all bring up Ben’s “clutch” play. Sure, he’s come up big at the end here and there. But he’s also failed to come through at the end of games. It happens, even to the best of them, and I’m in no way knocking him for that.

    But did you ever stop to think that maybe, if in the other 58 minutes of the game, he had mustered more than 100 passing yards and 2 picks, and not fumbled the ball a time or 2, they wouldn’t be in need of his late game “heroics?” Just think, if he had played just slightly above average the entire game, his team would likely be up by 2 scores. But like someone before me quoted, Ben is the best in the business at keeping both teams in the game.

    And to all those who mention Ben’s rushing yards in the AFCC game, and blast others for not including this HUGE stat in our comparisons to Manning, he had 11 rushes for 21 yards. Tack that onto his 133 passing yards, and you get 154 total yards of offense from your “elite” QB in a conference championship. Yeah, you can say he finds ways to win all you want, but the best way to do so, the way truly elite QB’s do so, is to play well the entire game.

  163. Deb says: Jan 28, 2011 11:29 PM

    popolover says:

    @deb

    FYI – In Polian’s world/ reign you don’t get an opinion…. you are a female.
    ————————————————-

    That’s okay, love. In my world, Bill Polian is pompous jackass who wimped out on the chance to try for an undefeated season. He has a great football mind, and I respect his accomplishments, especially in Buffalo. But I don’t need him to tell me about Roethlisberger’s play-making ability. I lived through Stoudt, Malone, Woodley, Campbell, Brister, Bono, Blackledge, O’Donnell, Tomczak, Miller, Stewart, Graham, and Maddox. Experience is the best teacher.

  164. goldenflash30 says: Jan 28, 2011 11:52 PM

    Let’s just do a simple stats comparison, shall we?

    Career postseason stats of Brady, Manning and Roethlisberger:

    COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
    Manning: 63.1%
    Brady: 62.2%
    Roethlisberger: 61.1%

    YARDS
    Manning: 5389 (about 283 per game)
    Brady: 4407 (about 232 per game)
    Roethlisberger: 2598 (216.5 per game)

    YARDS PER ATTEMPT
    Roethlisberger: 7.9
    Manning: 7.51
    Brady: 6.46

    TOUCHDOWNS
    Brady: 30 (1.58 per game)
    Manning: 29 (1.53 per game)
    Roethlisberger: 17 (1.42 per game)

    INTERCEPTIONS
    Roethlisberger: 14 (1.17 per game)
    Brady: 16 (0.8 per game)
    Manning: 19 (1 per game)

    PASSER RATING
    Manning: 88.4
    Brady: 85.7
    Roethlisberger: 85.4

    RECORDS:
    Roethlisberger: 10-2
    Brady: 14-5
    Manning: 9-10

    GREAT PERFORMANCE + WIN*
    Manning: 4 (44 percent)
    Brady: 7 (50 percent)
    Roethlisberger: 6 (60 percent)

    GOOD PERFORMANCE + WIN*
    Manning: 2 (22 percent)
    Brady: 2 (14 percent)
    Roethlisberger: 1 (10 percent)

    MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE + WIN*
    Manning: 2 (22 percent)
    Brady: 3 (21 percent)
    Roethlisberger: 0 (0 percent)

    POOR PERFORMANCE + WIN*
    Manning: 1 (11 percent)
    Brady: 2 (14 percent)
    Roethlisberger: 3 (30 percent)

    *Based on the entirely relative idea that 90+ passer rating is great, 80-90 is good, 70-80 is mediocre and sub-70 is poor.

    Now, clearly, stats are always relative. But what I take from this is:

    1. Brady is No. 1 in playoff games among these three. I’m not going to argue otherwise.

    2. Manning’s stats are better than people give him credit for, though I do wonder how much his statistical edge comes from the offense he plays in and the fact that many times, he was playing from behind.

    3. Ben is also better than people give him credit for. Outside of those three poor performances in wins (which came in his first career playoff start, Super Bowl XL and last week), he’s been very good, if not great, in his other wins.

    In his three Super Bowl postseasons, Roethlisberger has 12 TDs and 6 INTs…and yes, that includes Super Bowl XL and last week. Also, it’s worth mentioning that while he lacks in some categories (yards and TDs, for instance), that may have something to do with the system he’s playing in.

    So is Roethlisberger better than Brady or Manning? Maybe not. But is it insane to call him “elite”? Not by my standards. His postseason numbers, while perhaps not better, are at least comparable to Manning and Brady’s.

  165. chubrock50 says: Jan 29, 2011 12:05 AM

    donnieiris says: Jan 28, 2011 8:42 PM

    wow..for everybody that just cannot except the fact that ben is a winner and he just doesnt have the stats to be considered a great QB just go ahead and read the research japdouds has for us. It seems to me like he has some stats as well.

    Except for that his stats were way off on his Brady and Mannings TDs and Brady’s yards.

    He was counting Brady’s first year where he played in 1 game. His first full 7 years of playing Brady threw for over 26,000 yards and had 197 TDs. Manning had 216 TDs his first 7 years. So no those stats aren’t close.

    I think Ben is a damn good QB and is clutch so I won’t get into this crazy argument. I would however take Manning or Brady in their prime over Ben

  166. bears5683 says: Jan 29, 2011 12:13 AM

    When the Steelers started out 3-1 (a 3 pt loss to the 12-4 Ravens) without Big Ben after going 9-7 and missing playoffs last season, I concluded that Troy Palamolou may be more valuable to the Steelers. If Big Ben played 16 games he would have had 2 consecutive seasons with 4,000 plus yards and a passer rating close to 100. He’s definitely one of the top 6 in the NFL today (The elite:
    1. Tom Brady
    1. Aaron Rodgers (tie)
    3. Peyton Manning
    3. Drew Brees (tie)
    5. Ben Roethlisberger
    6. Philip Rivers definitely agree with the QB’s if not the order) and all 6 will be HOF unless Rivers or Rogers have career ending injuries in the next 2-3 years.

  167. ButkisMyDick says: Jan 29, 2011 2:29 AM

    @SteelTown6
    So Adam Vinatieri won those games, not Tom Brady, right?

    Nope our team won those games. Just like your team has won your SB’s…

  168. ButkisMyDick says: Jan 29, 2011 2:31 AM

    @johntonioholmes

    I tend to be a little bitter when people overstate Brady’s greatness. I think he is obviously in the top two or three in the league, but people talk about him like he’s Jesus.

    Of course he’s not Jesus! Jesus would’ve thrown at least 7 int since he’s human.

  169. ButkisMyDick says: Jan 29, 2011 2:33 AM

    @ihateannouncers

    How would Ben and Manning do as the Pat’s QB, or Ben and Brady do as the Colts QB?? Probably ALOT better than Manning and Brady would do as the Steelers QB. Ben’s ability to make something out of nothing isn’t a fantasy stat but it is huge.

    How would Big Ben do with the Pats O-line? Awful because he isn’t that great a passer. He’s great bc he can scramble.

  170. ButkisMyDick says: Jan 29, 2011 2:34 AM

    @steelernation1

    discredit Patriots success?they cheated alot are u forgetting that..there are ? next to there rings also.

    and to those that say ben dont go deep?u r way off base..

    just a bunch of ignorant haters who only wish ben was on there team,,and of course i see one assclown throwing the ben rape thing out there..will u ever grow up and look at facts?

    Trust me there’s no QB I’d rather have then Tom Brady. You can call us cheaters, but we can’t bring up the rape thing.. hmm..

  171. footballcoach17 says: Jan 29, 2011 9:36 AM

    Admin: you’re an idiot. Manning has made 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years (1-1) He has dominated the AFC South the last 10 years. His stats are among the best. Colts def has never been in the overall top 5 in the league. Again, bias idiot. With that said, Ben and Tom are awesome! While not a fan of either, I do enjoy watching them play the game. Both very deserving of compliments from one of the best organizational leaders in football.

  172. footballcoach17 says: Jan 29, 2011 9:45 AM

    If an NFL coach could pick any QB in the league for next season to play on his team…Manning wins hands down. Period.

  173. jacklambert58 says: Jan 29, 2011 9:46 AM

    Brady and Manning have both had outstanding OL’s while Ben has had a porous one at best. Yet, he has gone to 4 championship games and 3 SB’s in his 7 yr career. How would Manning and/or Brady have faired playing behind the Steelers OL? Since neither can take a hit and both get flustered when pressured, I suspect they would not have done very well…

  174. footballcoach17 says: Jan 29, 2011 9:47 AM

    AFC has the best QBs in the NFL. And has for the past 10 years.

  175. 420fan says: Jan 29, 2011 10:14 AM

    only ben rapes, allegedly

  176. pga33 says: Jan 29, 2011 10:18 AM

    Not a Steelers fan, but if you like football–you have to like Roethlisberger’s style. He’s one of the best QB’s ever–up there with Montana when it comes to situational play. He improvises. He thinks on his feet when things break down. I like Tom Brady but he’s purely a pocket passer who’d rather take a sack than to make something happen. That’s coaching. Manning always has been clinical. Too clinical. The only way to beat Manning is to take his options away. In a single-play situation that’s what happens…the reason why he has only one championship. Roethlisberger has that “it” you can’t put in a statline–that “it” is why his coaches call a pass on 3rd & 6 to win a championship game instead of a conventional “hand the ball off and let our defense win it” type play. He’s gone from bus driver to tank commander.

    The cool thing about Roethlisberger is the fact he IS a football player. There’s no “Big Ben” rule…you don’t see that guy whining to officials all the time; you don’t see him getting rules named after him for the sake of “that’s who the fans want to see”. Wrong sport, this isn’t basketball.

    I could throw out stats here, but they’ve been so thoroughly reviewed as to being meaningless. I hate fantasy football because it makes people think stats are the end-all and be-all of the game. The bottom line is Roethlisberger wins football games, and he wins big, meaningful football games. He keeps plays alive. On the field, he does what he has to do, and as football fans–not the fan of a team–that’s something that should make you take notice. The rest of the stuff is meaningless. Give credit where credit is due.

    Hate to tell Indy fan this, but is there any doubt Ben converts that 3rd & 7 instead of having to kick a 50-yard field goal and give the ball back to the Jets? That situational play is what makes one guy a winner, and the other a statistical winner.

  177. mborz says: Jan 29, 2011 11:57 AM

    I don’t care which players are considered elite. I cheer for my team, not individual players.

    Often times, even with “elite” players having a great game, it takes an entire team’s effort to produce a playoff win. And not every elite player steps up in every big game, as we have seen many times over the years (and it’s happened to Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger).

    It’s a team sport. No player at any single position can win a game by themselves.

  178. nps6724 says: Jan 29, 2011 1:17 PM

    You can go on and on about how Ben “is a winner” or he “knows how to win”, but the fact is the ONLY time Pittsburgh has reached the Super Bowl this decade is with a #1 defense.

    When Tom Brady had a #1 or #2 defense, he also won a Super Bowl. He’s reached the Super Bowl 4 times, each with a #6 or higher defense. Aaron Rodgers has the #2 defense and he’s in the Super Bowl.

    Having a top defense has more to do with these guys reaching the Super Bowl than the QB “being a winner”.

    Drew Brees threw for 404 yards, completed 65% of his passes, threw 2 TDs and 0 INTs vs. Seattle in the playoffs. But the Saints lost 36-41. Is it Brees’ fault? Was he not clutch simply because the defense failed? How many times have great QBs played well but the team lost due to someone else’s failures? Brees alone has played well in all 3 of his teams’ playoff losses, but twice his defense allowed 39+ points.

    And the whole “No one else could win with this OL” is a myth. The Pittsburgh OL is mediocre but hardly terrible. 50% of those sacks can be attributed to Ben due to his propensity to hold onto the ball too long. That’s what makes him dangerous because a lot of his big plays come from the plays he keeps alive. But it also leads to a lot of sacks. Put Brees or Manning or Brady behind the same OL and they give up far fewer sacks because those 3 will take the short throw if there’s pressure and will go to quicker plays if the pressure is getting there.

    Ben is fearless and that helps, but also hurts, his play.

  179. pghsteel412 says: Jan 29, 2011 1:39 PM

    see the thing with ben is hes playing on a offense that doesnt throw the ball as much as brady or manning does… he doesnt have to.. steeler football is build lead with mixture of runs and pass.. have defense hold lead and run the ball out.. manning and brady have to throw to win because their defenses arent good so of course their stats will be better.. u can point out flaws in all qbs games- mannings 4 int games, brady choking in playoffs last couple years or spygate, what matters most is wins and ben has 2 going on 3 super bowls, makes the big play when it counts. and when he does have to pass he will go for 503 yards with no ints vs packers last year. to not put him in conversation of elite qbs is ridiculous

  180. stetai says: Jan 29, 2011 2:49 PM

    I hate the Go**amn Steelers, trust me, but Rothlisberger is elite. As a matter of fact, if I’m going into a championship game, he’s probably the QB I’d want first.

    My only issue with that statement from Polian is the continued use of Peyton Manning as the #1 or #2 QB in the NFL. He’s not even top five anymore and the only people that think he is judge him from years ago. He lost multiple games by himself in the final minute this season starting with the Super Bowl and the only reason he was in the playoffs was because the AFC South imploded.

  181. nickster2k says: Jan 29, 2011 2:54 PM

    Megatron says:
    Jan 28, 2011 11:22 PM
    But did you ever stop to think that maybe, if in the other 58 minutes of the game, he had mustered more than 100 passing yards and 2 picks, and not fumbled the ball a time or 2, they wouldn’t be in need of his late game “heroics?” Just think, if he had played just slightly above average the entire game, his team would likely be up by 2 scores. But like someone before me quoted, Ben is the best in the business at keeping both teams in the game.

    =======================

    You make a fantastic point, but Roethlisberger is not to blame. It’s the offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians.

    Arians puts Roethlisberger in 3rd and longs frequently by stubbornly running on first and second down even when it is evident that the running game is not working. He doesn’t attack the weaknesses of opponents and his game plans are usually very vanilla. (But he won’t hesitate to put the blame on the players for “lack of execution”.)

    The Steelers just don’t throw as much as other teams. They know they can rely on Roethlisberger when they need a big play, though– and he usually comes through. That’s what makes him elite.

  182. steelerfan9598 says: Jan 29, 2011 2:58 PM

    The Defense does not lead the league in third down conversions, Ben does. The defense did not convert 3rd and 19 to close out the Ravens game – to a rookie WR, nor did the defense convert a 3rd and 6 to close out the Jets game – also to a rookie WR. Comparing Ben to Manning is like comparing Jeter to A-Rod(before they were teammates). Do you want the stats guy who chokes in the playoffs or the supposedly inferior player who is a proven winner?

  183. ckoss2010 says: Jan 29, 2011 3:41 PM

    Brady has great stats but hasn’t won a Super Bowl in 6 years. He gets more credit now than he did when he was winning Super Bowls. Ben doesn’t get the credit he deserves and he probably never will, but when they look back on his career he will always have the rings. Brady doesn’t have a running game but that also has to do with the system he is in. Belichick has no interest in having a running game while the Steelers continually make an effort to run the ball. The Steelers have a productive running game but haven’t had a great running game since Parker and Bettis were in the backfield together. Roethlisberger played bad in his first Super Bowl, but people forget how amazing he was in the 3 playoff games leading up to the big game. Without him they don’t win a single super bowl. Put Brady or Manning behind the Steelers patchwork line and their careers would have ended 5 years ago. Ben is the only qb that could take the punishment.

  184. packmanfan says: Jan 29, 2011 7:49 PM

    I don’t think an accused rapist can be thought of as being elite.

  185. nickster2k says: Jan 29, 2011 8:50 PM

    packmanfan says:
    Jan 29, 2011 7:49 PM
    I don’t think an accused rapist can be thought of as being elite.

    ==========================

    are you talking about the harassment allegations against Manning by his female trainer at Tennessee?

  186. Megatron says: Jan 29, 2011 9:52 PM

    steelerfan9598 says: Jan 29, 2011 2:58 PM

    The Defense does not lead the league in third down conversions, Ben does. The defense did not convert 3rd and 19 to close out the Ravens game – to a rookie WR, nor did the defense convert a 3rd and 6 to close out the Jets game – also to a rookie WR. Comparing Ben to Manning is like comparing Jeter to A-Rod(before they were teammates). Do you want the stats guy who chokes in the playoffs or the supposedly inferior player who is a proven winner?
    ___________________

    Ben and the Steelers don’t lead the league in 3rd down conversions either. They were 6th this year, which is pretty good, but had not finished in the top 10 in that category the 2 years prior. And over 60% of those conversions were rushes.

  187. pghsteel412 says: Jan 29, 2011 10:41 PM

    to packmanfan

    so if no one can be elite if accused of rape then ur saying clay matthews isnt a elite player because he and other packer teammates were accused of sex assault…

    my point is just because u r accused of something doesnt mean u did anything wrong

  188. nps6724 says: Jan 29, 2011 10:54 PM

    Ben averages 28.6 pass attempts per start.
    Brady averages 32.9.
    Manning averages 34.7.
    Brees averages 35.2.

    Pittsburgh is still a very run-oriented team, but they do pass quite a bit. Not as much as Indy, New England, or New Orleans but that’s more a product of Pittsburgh having such a devastating defense and thus playing with more leads than the others. IIRC when the Pats had great defenses in ’03 and ’04, they ran a lot more than they have since. You can afford to call run after run even when it struggles to gain yards when your defense gives up 14 or fewer points on average.

  189. ihateannouncers says: Jan 30, 2011 1:51 AM

    ButkisMyDick says:
    Jan 29, 2011 2:33 AM

    How would Big Ben do with the Pats O-line? Awful because he isn’t that great a passer. He’s great bc he can scramble.

    ———————————————————

    I’m sure Ben would do alot better with the Pats line than Brady would do with the Steelers line. Ben may not be the pure passer Brady is, but you don’t need to be when you have tha much talent in front of you. Didn’t they go 11-5 with Matt Casse in 2008?? Don’t tell me you think he is better than Ben

  190. Deb says: Jan 30, 2011 8:50 AM

    @packfanman …

    Amazing with almost 200 comments that all but a couple of idiots were able to be mature and discuss quarterback issues. No surprise where you fall. Seven members of your team were accused of rape last summer. So by your reckoning none of them, including Clay Matthews, will ever be considered elite since accusations are more relevant than evidence :roll: You’re an embarrassment to Pack fans who’ve acted like men on this thread. Maybe you should change your name to packfanboy.

  191. masteel says: Jan 30, 2011 11:23 AM

    Wow – some real good stuff here!!

    @cornellsteelers, GREAT post. I dig your points

    @wycoff, GREAT post. And I’ve preached how Ben had to roll thru the 3 road playoff games. Ben in the BIG game vs Colts beat them & Manning that season …..he played a good game!

    @pga33, YES Ben does have ‘it’ …no stat sheet on a QB with ‘it’ but he has it (pun)

    Going to be a heck of a Super Bowl, GO Steelers!

  192. meattuperello says: Jan 30, 2011 12:06 PM

    @japdouds says:
    Jan 28, 2011 1:32 PM
    “Roethlisberger hasn’t had the statistics or the accolades of Manning or Brady”

    Mind if I shatter this myth into 1000 tiny pieces?
    ____________________________________
    What is sad.. that even with your statistics.

    Manning has 2300 more yards, and 23 more touchdowns.

    Now that is the sad part.

    The funny part is that you failed to include Manning’s 7th year.

    Which if you included it in your attempt to cherry pick stats, you would have noticed that in their first 7 years Manning had nearly 7,000 more yards than Ben, and 72 more touchdown passes.

    The fact that you included Brady’s true rookie year, as opposed to his 1st 7 years as a starting quarterback along with excluding Manning’s 7th year proves that a) you are too ignorant to make a statistical comparison, or b) did it intentionally to mislead people.

    So stop spewing lies…..

  193. pigspigspigspigs says: Jan 30, 2011 4:11 PM

    compare all threes first title runs

    Big Ben
    Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int rating
    62.4 23.2 803 8.6 200.8 7 3 101.7

    tom brady
    Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int rating
    61.9 32.3 572 5.9 190.7 1 1 77.3

    manning
    Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int rating
    63.4 38.2 1,034 6.8 258.5 3 7 70.5

    big ben had the best title run of all 3 even with the poor superbowl and all of them relied on the defense to win especially manning since he played terribly throughout the postseason but that has become the norm for him…

    is it bens fault that the steelers use a philosophy that wins and that they have a great front office that knows how to build a team?

  194. stoney18 says: Jan 30, 2011 4:27 PM

    Maybe his athletic accomplishments might be compared to Brady & Manning; but it ends there!
    Ben needs to be accountable for his actions regarding women! Ben is 28 and weighs 250 lbs and sent a 5’4″ 20 year-old to the hospital with physical injuries, plus who is also accused of another sexual assault. He is not worthy of such a comparison between the two other athletes playing the same position with Hall of Fame credentials, yet also happen to be gentlemen off the field. We CAN’T have it both ways when he treats women the same way some other QB treated dogs.

  195. pghsteel412 says: Jan 30, 2011 5:47 PM

    to stoney18

    you are seriously saying that manning and brady are perfect gentleman off the field? ok how about at university of tennessee where manning was accused of sexual assault against a female athletic trainer.. and tom brady dumped his pregnant girlfriend and rumors are started affair with gisele before he was officially broken up.. so i dont know.. manning accused of sexual assault and brady cheating on and dumping his pregnant girlfriend doesnt sound like they are total gentleman off the field as you put it

  196. pigspigspigspigs says: Jan 30, 2011 6:47 PM

    not to mention that during the 2005 title run for the steelers ben had the 5th best wildcard passing game in nfl history and had the 10th best conference title game in nfl history

    Ben Roethlisberger is No. 2 on the list, for his 228.4-uncapped rating in a 38-7 win over the Ravens in 2007. People who don’t know football insist that Big Ben is not an elite quarterback because he doesn’t put up big fantasy-friendly numbers.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts have insisted almost since he first stepped on the field that Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback because he puts up incredible efficiency numbers – the more important numbers that lead to victories. Roethlisberger’s great efficiency and two Super Bowl rings tell us that we’ve been right all along.

  197. tweener8292 says: Jan 30, 2011 8:06 PM

    Nothing against Ben, but Polian “might” want to put Brees on his list as well. Didn’t Drew and the Saints beat his Colts in the Super Bowl last year?

    As for Ben – he’s good. Glad to see that he apparently had a trouble-free season off the field.

  198. pravin68 says: Jan 30, 2011 10:23 PM

    1) Brady relied on his defense to win the first SB. Ty Law should have been the MVP. In fact, Bledsoe’s big throw and Troy Brown helped him win the AFC Championship against Pittsburgh.
    2) Peyton had an underrated defense in his titles. How prolific were his offenses against NE in the playoffs? They didn’t put up regular season level points.
    3) Brady had Belichick. Ben has Arians. Big advantage to Brady.
    4) Without Ben, Steelers flat out do not make it to SB XL which they won. Ben’s passing , not Bettis running was the reason why they won the three playoff games leading up to the SB.
    5) There were only 8 drives in the Jets game. Ben made the clutch plays when it counted.
    6) Ben doesnt have the same kind of OL that Brady and Peyton have had the luxury of playing behind.

  199. pensacolasteelers says: Jan 31, 2011 9:13 AM

    ANYONE who says that Roethlisberger’ stats don’t compare to Brady’s needs to take another look! Brady’s play 11 years vs Ben’s 7. But just taking the 1st 7 years that Brady started their stats are very close. Brady 111 games 3639 att 2293 comp 26364 yrds 197 TD 86 INT vs Ben 99 games 2800 att 1766 comp 22502 yrds 144 TD 86 INT. Considering Ben’s missed more games over the 1st 7 yrs I think their stats are very similar.

  200. pensacolasteelers says: Jan 31, 2011 10:02 AM

    Ben sent NO ONE to the hospital. LMAO! The absurdity never ends. Both saw $ when they saw Ben! 1st bragged to co-workers how much fun she had with Ben and how she was going to have his baby. The 2nd had to be talked into reporting an alleged “assault” by her fellow coeds. Her story changed at least 3 times and in the end the evidence just didn’t support her claim. You haters need to get your facts straight!

  201. pensacolasteelers says: Jan 31, 2011 12:19 PM

    Disagree if you want to, but give Ben another 12 games and his stats could look like this… 111 games 3189 att 2006 comp 25702 yrds 161 TD and 91 INT. Brady has about 500 more attempts but only 300 more comp (means Bens completion pct is better) less then 1000 yrds (meaning Ben’s Yards Per Attempt is more) and Brady-bunch would have about 30 more TD and 5 fewer INT’s. Considering he’s had a much better OL and all he does is dink&dunk to Welker. Ben’s stats are actually better in my humble opinion!

  202. pravin68 says: Jan 31, 2011 3:27 PM

    For the record, I do thnk Brady is a great QB. But enough of this nonsense that Ben is not in the same league. Ben has the highest YPA or had it at one time, I am not 100% sure. He has the most 40 plus yard TD passes this year. The guy can win in more than one way.

  203. originalsteelcurtain says: Feb 1, 2011 12:13 PM

    Uninformed Steeler-haters, hate-on if you must, but Ben IS elite, he’s 28 yrs old, about to win his 3rd SB title, and he’s still getting better.

    You want “Stats” …here’s some career stats:

    8th ALL-TIME passer rating of 92.5

    5th ALL-TIME YPA of 8.04

    12th ALL-TIME in completion 63.07% (min 1500 attempts)

    4th ALL-TIME in winning .704% ( min 90 starts)

    There is not a QB in the league that the Steelers would trade Ben straight-up for.

  204. tomsawyer187 says: Feb 1, 2011 12:17 PM

    Some of you “Fans” are really funny. Do you understand the game of football? The QB position is not where the playoffs games are won, they certainly can be lost by them but a win is a team effort. QB’s have their stats, teams get the trophies…

  205. tedesco47 says: Feb 1, 2011 2:34 PM

    What a joke.
    The elite QB status is debated all year round, especially during weeks 10-17, and who should belong in the “elite” QB category.
    This year, names like peyton manning, tom brady, michael vick, and philip rivers were constantly mentioned. Not once did I ever heard a broadcaster or announcer or writer mention ben, but now all of a sudden because he is in his 3rd superbowl everybody is comparing him to actual elite QB’s.
    He is a mediocre quarterback who plays well under pressure.
    He will never, ever, be considered a league MVP, like brady and manning. SO PLEASE don’t compare them.

  206. mike32303 says: Feb 1, 2011 3:58 PM

    I am so tired of hearing comments about how Brady cant play when under heavy pressure or when getting hit.. That is why in football you have an O-line morons.. To protect the QB.. That is why teams that dont do this usually lose.. Do you really think that Chad Henne would do the same thing with the pats that Brady did this year??? get real morons. That argument is so lame and pathetic. You give Brady, Manning, or Ben the same amount of time with the same team.. They all can make plays. Ill take Tom first, Ben second, Manning third. Manning hasnt shown me he can win with average, no name talent. With all the turnover the Colts had this year, it really showed that he couldnt make those players that much better like Brady does

  207. newreality1 says: Feb 1, 2011 3:59 PM

    On monday morning I will come back to this article and post another comment. If ben escapes the greenbay linebackers and beats the defensive ends than Ill jump on the ELITE qb wagon . Im sure after 2 weeks BJ is hungry and wants to be fed quarterback , Run ben run .And Im sure with your all pro center gone for the game ben will be doing a lot of that. YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  208. pensacolasteelers says: Feb 2, 2011 12:32 PM

    @tedesco you’re right, they shouldn’t be compared… Ben is better!

  209. pigspigspigspigs says: Feb 2, 2011 3:12 PM

    the Jets beat Manning because they shut down Manning’s system. They beat Tom Brady because they shut down Brady’s system. They couldn’t beat Roethlisberger because his size and athleticism allow him to operate outside the Steelers’ system. Manning and Brady can’t make something from nothing. Ben can.

  210. discosucs2005 says: Feb 2, 2011 6:18 PM

    @pigspigspigspigs

    Well said. Ben can do more wit the ball when a play breaks down than any other QB in the league, and probably any QB since Steve Young. He his greatest attribute is his down field vision. He always seems to know where the open guy is no matter what is going on around him. I’m not saying this alone makes him better than Manning or Brady, I’m just saying that he is an excellent QB and comparing these three QBs is a very legitimate discussion.

  211. polishkingski says: Feb 3, 2011 1:12 PM

    one thing i will say with some certainty. if you put brady, manning and big ben at the helm of a struggling team like my beloved bills, its big ben that would give them the best chance of winning week in and week out….hands down.

  212. sterilizecromartie says: Feb 3, 2011 2:54 PM

    Sorry I’m late to this party. Looks like I missed a lot.

    First of all, you can’t judge a QB based ONLY on SB wins or ONLY on statistics. If that’s the case, then Terry Bradshaw and Brett Favre would be somewhere neat the top your list. Ugh.

    I’ve always looked at it this way… If you were to start a franchise from scratch and you could choose either Ben, Brady, or Manning to be your starting QB for the next 13-15 years, who would you choose knowing now how their careers are panning out?

    Forget about who the coaches are, who the running backs are, who the WRs are, how good or bad their defense is, how good or bad their offensive line is… forget about all of that. You are starting a franchise from scratch. Pick the QB you want to lead the rest of your team (that has yet to be assembled) for the next 15 years.

    That being said, anyone who says they would take anyone but Peyton Manning is a liar.

  213. steelernation1 says: Feb 3, 2011 3:13 PM

    if any strugling team needed a qb i bet Ben would be there coice,why u ask?because he can do a lot more than brady or manning..he can stay in pocket,elude blitzers better than any QB in the game,and he finds ways to keep drives going..

    plain and simple

  214. subtleman says: Feb 7, 2011 7:24 AM

    Please tell me you people are comparing Roethlisberger to ELI Manning and John Brodie.

    Steeler fans are . . . interesting. Where’s the “Jerome Bettis is Better Than Jim Brown” blog?

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