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Marvin Miller rips NFL union for ever agreeing to a salary cap

marvin-miller AP

As head of the baseball players’ union from 1966 to 1982, Marvin Miller was credited with making huge strides in collective bargaining, leading to free agency and skyrocketing player salaries. At age 93, Miller is still a keen observer of the labor situation in sports, and he says he doesn’t think the NFL players have had particularly good representation through the years.

In particular, Miller rails against the previous NFL Players Association leadership for ever agreeing to a salary cap, which he sees as an unacceptable limit on how much money the players can make.

No legitimate union could ever agree to a salary cap,” Miller told Sports Illustrated. “In my mind, if a union did that, if would be grounds for decertification, for membership to go court. They were not representing their goal in the law: to improve the wages, hours and working conditions of its members.”

Miller said he doesn’t care what the players got in exchange for the cap: As far as Miller is concerned, as soon as the union leadership agreed to a salary cap, “They were now on the side of management.”

Miller was a brilliant leader of the baseball players’ union and one of the most influential figures in 20th Century American sports, but he’s wrong to suggest that the NFL players didn’t get anything in exchange for the salary cap. Yes, the NFL players agreed to a salary cap, which is a major concession to the owners. But the owners also agreed to a salary floor, which is a major concession to the players — a concession that the allegedly much more powerful baseball players’ union hasn’t managed to get from the baseball owners.

The presence of both a cap and a floor is why the NFL has no equivalent to the New York Yankees, who paid players more than $200 million in 2010, but also no equivalent to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who paid players less than $35 million in 2010. That might not be a trade-off Miller would make, but it’s a trade-off the NFL players made with their eyes wide open.

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81 Responses to “Marvin Miller rips NFL union for ever agreeing to a salary cap”
  1. Jay says: Apr 12, 2011 2:05 PM

    You make a lucid point in bringing up the Floor and Cap issue.

    It would be interesting to see what the league minimum is for baseball players compared to football players and if there is truly a difference between baseball and football’s richest and poorest players.

  2. kellyb9 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:08 PM

    “No legitimate union could ever agree to a salary cap,” ——————- Is this guy for real? Every major sport in America has a salary cap EXCEPT baseball.

  3. jdvallee says: Apr 12, 2011 2:08 PM

    It’s assanine comments, and actions like those made by Marvin Miller that has taken MLB from “America’s Pastime” to “irrelevant” in short order. Glad he is not involved with the NFLPA*

  4. chapnastier says: Apr 12, 2011 2:10 PM

    Mr. Miller your theories have destroyed baseball and if you applied this theory to the NFL it would destroy football as well.

  5. kd75 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:12 PM

    From a player standpoint, he’s right. From a health of the game standpoint he’s wrong.

    Players don care and shouldn’t care if franchises spend themselves out of business.

    But as a fan, I like the fact that teams in Pitt and GB can compete on a level playing field.

  6. greengayfackers says: Apr 12, 2011 2:12 PM

    I’m glad there is a cap. Football would be ruined just like baseball.

  7. vituperator says: Apr 12, 2011 2:13 PM

    Marvin Miller is dead wrong. Just ask all those NHL players who followed their leader off the cliff and lost a whole season — and then got the cap. Miller was negotiating against a weak league that didn’t have the stomach to get what they want. His style would not have worked against the NHL and likely would not have worked against the NFL.

  8. ronithan23 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:14 PM

    Miller was right to not agree to a salary cap in baseball which is at its essence, an individual sport dependent on star power and star franchises. The salary cap (along with pooled TV revenue) allowed the proverbial entire pie of the NFL to grow, making almost every team competitive on a year to year basis. Even before the Salary Cap’s floor provision became relevant in 2010, it was a win-win situation for all parties concerned, save the handful of Free Agents the Cowboys and Redskins may have overpaid even more for without a cap . At least in the NFL, the salary cap created a rising tide that lifted all boats (but gasp, isn’t that socialism!?!)

  9. 3card says: Apr 12, 2011 2:14 PM

    Marvin Miller is an idiot.

  10. realitypolice says: Apr 12, 2011 2:15 PM

    Did anyone ask Miller has opinion of rap music, baggy jeans, Facebook or Justin Bieber?

    93 year old men have 93 year old opinions. His opinions about the above subjects are just as relevant as his opinions about professional sports in the 21st century.

  11. commoncents says: Apr 12, 2011 2:15 PM

    I agree with Marvin Miller, the Players Union leadership is a bunch or morons!!!

  12. gairzo says: Apr 12, 2011 2:15 PM

    He didn’t say the NFPA got nothing. He said he doesn’t care.

  13. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:18 PM

    Let me jump in before MILLERBASH~! gets rolling.

    If you were to hire a lawyer, would you want that person to do what was best for you? Because Miller did for the MLBPA- the guys that hired him- and not the owners.

    There’s no evidence that a salary cap creates parity. Read it again, because it’s true. College football essentially has one, and the same teams win every year. Ditto college basketball. With a cap almost every year the Patriots are good and the Cardinals suck. Without a cap the Steelers and Niners had dynasties and the Cardinals still sucked.

    Give this post a thumbs down if I told you an inconvenient truth that you were happier not reading.

  14. ezmoover says: Apr 12, 2011 2:19 PM

    The economic structure of the MLB is a joke thanks to assclowns like Marvin Miller.

    There are, maybe, 6 or 7 true major league teams in the MLB. The rest are just AAAA, feeder teams.

    Thanks Marvin.

  15. buffalose says: Apr 12, 2011 2:19 PM

    Sure glad he worked for the MLB

  16. dtriebel says: Apr 12, 2011 2:20 PM

    Well said. I don’t expect Marvin Miller has an inkling but the salary cap/floor is a big reason why NFL is huge and the MLB is but an after thought. Lets hope the NFL players are smart enough not to kill their golden goose.

  17. nagihcimwolves50 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:20 PM

    This is the guy responsible for ruining baseball and now he wants to ruin another sport….shutup old man

  18. b7p19 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:21 PM

    The only argument you can make against Miller here is that a salary cap (and floor) creates competitive balance which makes the NFL more popular which creates a bigger pie, ect. I’m not even sure I believe that, but it’s the only argument that makes sense.

    To say that the salary floor makes up for the earning potential lost is bogus. MLB does not have a salary floor, but if you’re good enough you WILL get paid. It will likely be after a trade to a rich team, but no players value is hurt due to the lack of a salary floor.

  19. lenrossen says: Apr 12, 2011 2:21 PM

    If I read the quote correctly, Miller is not suggesting that the players did not get anything in return, as you indicate. In the quote you wrote (“Miller said he doesn’t care what the players got in exchange for the cap”). I think he is saying, unilaterally, he would never have made any deal which included a salary cap.

  20. marcinhouston says: Apr 12, 2011 2:22 PM

    Miller is a baseball guy, and it definitely would have been better for baseball if the NFL players also took a short sighted approach and tipped the competitive playing field in favor of the richest teams. Baseball has been losing popularity and relevance ever since they created cap-less free agency and the NFL has taken its place as the national pastime. Baseball will end up like pro boxing if they do not get a salary cap asap. The salaries of a few top players will look good but overall income will top out and drop and the average pro player will need to get a day job.

  21. vargafamily1 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:23 PM

    I agree with him. The minute Unions start doing something sensible is the same minute to question what the hell is going on.

  22. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:23 PM

    From MDS: “Yes, the NFL players agreed to a salary cap, which is a major concession to the owners. But the owners also agreed to a salary floor, which is a major concession to the players — a concession that the allegedly much more powerful baseball players’ union hasn’t managed to get from the baseball owners”.

    Just for the record, during the 2006 negotiations to extend MLB’s basic agreement, the owners offered the players a salary floor *without* asking for a cap in return- and the players turned it down.

    Then MLBPA head Donald Fehr was a Marvin Miller disciple, and he was opposed in principle to non free-market devices such as caps and floors.

  23. b7p19 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:25 PM

    kelleyb9:

    He said UNION, not sports union.

    Also, you are only taking into account American sports unions. Check out the most popular leagues accross the world like the EPL and other Euro soccer leagues. No salary cap there.

  24. danimalk82 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:33 PM

    Maybe the lack of a salary cap is the reason why nobody likes your crappy sport. The only cities who have fans that watch baseball are the cities that have owners able and willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on players. Every city that has an NFL feels like their team has a shot to make the playoffs every year because of two things:

    1. Higher draft picks for the worst teams.
    2. Every team has the same max and min to spend on players.
    Baseball lacks intrigue because of the lack of competitive balance. The NFL’s competitive balance is what helps to keep growing the proverbial pie for both players and owners.

    So go back to eating your applesauce and watching your boring sport Grandpa!

  25. nolarules says: Apr 12, 2011 2:34 PM

    What in the world does this man have to do with football? Nothing. He should stick to what he knows….A sport that can’t get anyone to attend or watch any games.
    Yeah, the NFLPA* should really take some pointers from this clown. He helped destroy his sport to the point where game 7 of the world series can’t get the TV numbers that a college football game can, much less NFL games.

  26. possiblecabbage says: Apr 12, 2011 2:35 PM

    So is this guy the reason that Baseball is so uninteresting?

  27. smarterthantheaveragebearfan says: Apr 12, 2011 2:38 PM

    Miller is a trailblazer and an icon.

    It’s not his fault that MLB rolled over to Steinbrenner and Jean Yawkey. There IS a way to avoid a salary cap and have balanced competition.

    Quite frankly you have folks like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder who would LOVE to emulate baseball owners and make teams like the Bills, Packers, Chiefs irrelevant.

  28. thevolcanokid says: Apr 12, 2011 2:41 PM

    Without a salary cap (or some similar competition enforcer) football will lose so much of its brilliance.

    The hope of every new season is nurtured by the salary cap. Take that away and you’ll have the a league split into thirds.

    One third the basement.
    One third the farm teams.
    The top third will be where the action is.

    I live in Seattle, and having an MLB perma-farm team is awful. I don’t even bother checking MLB scores anymore. I don’t want that to be the story of the NFL.

  29. maddog111 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:46 PM

    tommyf15 says:
    Apr 12, 2011 2:18 PM
    Let me jump in before MILLERBASH~! gets rolling.

    If you were to hire a lawyer, would you want that person to do what was best for you? Because Miller did for the MLBPA- the guys that hired him- and not the owners.

    There’s no evidence that a salary cap creates parity. Read it again, because it’s true. College football essentially has one, and the same teams win every year. Ditto college basketball. With a cap almost every year the Patriots are good and the Cardinals suck. Without a cap the Steelers and Niners had dynasties and the Cardinals still sucked.
    ———————————————–
    That’s idiotic. The Steelers and Niners pre salary cap dynasties were also pre player free agency. You think those dynasties would have lasted more than 3 or 4 years with free agency and no cap in place?

  30. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:47 PM

    ezmoover says:
    There are, maybe, 6 or 7 true major league teams in the MLB. The rest are just AAAA, feeder teams.

    Nine different teams have won the World Series winners over the past ten years.

    Guess at least two of them were your AAAA feeder teams.

  31. danetow says: Apr 12, 2011 2:50 PM

    Its just a matter of time before baseball goes into a lockout, and I bet my life savings that after that lockout is finished baseball will have a salary cap.

  32. bigd9484 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:51 PM

    Hey Flo, can you contact this guy and ask him about TV ratings for MLB with its outstanding concept of pay the top guys $20 mil a season, and the other 95% of the league gets 5-15% of that? The salary cap came with veterans minimum salaries based on years played you idiot, so the players gave up the extreme minority of them making ridiculous money for the majority of them to make a guaranteed minimum. Sounds like the unions TRUE purpose, to bring the standard of living up for ALL of the people who pay dues, not just the top 5%. What an idiot. How about the reason more people pay attention to the NFL, which is everyone can have a reasonable assumption that their team will be competitive. This is the core reason there is more money to split up in the first place. With no salary cap, the NY teams, Dallas, Chicago, New England, and the Cali teams would be the best or among them every year, everyone else would tune out, and ratings would drop, then no one would make money. Mr Miller this is called putting a marketable product for sale. The no salary cap/salary floor MLB has allowed owners to run away with profits and throw crappy teams on the field (Pirates, Nationals, etc). so are YOU the reason no one gives a crap about baseball anymore, and that the NFL and NASCAR (ya, NASCAR) run circles around MLB for ratings? Ya, that definitely gives you the right to tell the NFLPA they have done it wrong.

  33. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:52 PM

    thevolcanokid says:
    I live in Seattle, and having an MLB perma-farm team is awful. I don’t even bother checking MLB scores anymore.

    Obviously you don’t- the Mariners have had winning seasons two out of the last four years, and seven out of the last eleven.

  34. viguy007 says: Apr 12, 2011 2:57 PM

    No matter who is right in this war between the NFL and the players, both sides do not have any concern for us, the fans. They are killing the fan interest that produces ticket and merchandise sales, but most importantly the television audience they sell to advertisers. The NFL is expected to enter into TV contracts worth 46 Billion dollars as soon as the next CBA is signed. The NFL just assumes we will once again slip back into old modes of behavior, and they have no fear we will not. Let’s just put some fear in them.

    The NFL will be watching their draft very closely for any signs of slippage in its viewing audience. Remember last year, when they so proudly announced that the television ratings had increased by 18%, it was a sign that the NFL reached new levels of popularity. Now imagine how they would react if the rating declined by 50%. And if you intend to go to the draft in person, don’t go, let the auditorium be half filled. Support your fellow fans by not acting like a fan. You can watch the results of the Draft on your late night sports report, and these blogs will be filled chatter about the selections. You will know who they are, you will lose nothing, but maybe gain a season. Send a message that the sleeping giant is starting to awaken, and he can not be taken for granted, or ignored any longer. This is only the first step.

    Pass this message on, post it to your Facebook page and other blogs, Tweet “Join Fan Boycott of NFL Draft on TV”. Spread the word,

  35. sneaky1632 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:04 PM

    Who cares what this fossil thinks, this is’nt the 1930′s buddy. Now we know who is responsible for the coruption in MLB.

  36. milesrunner262 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:05 PM

    He makes valid points but I would never want to see this in the NFL. My Cowboys would become the Yankees of the last 10 years…spend TONS of money with only 1 title to show for it. Heck one could argue that this is already the case in Dallas!

  37. acerockefellar says: Apr 12, 2011 3:05 PM

    not having a salary cap is great if you want to ruin the nfl. Tell me Marvin who is more profitable the MLB or the NFL? The winner is the NFL. without salary caps we who have 4 great teams and 28 horrible teams. Nobody wants to see the same team win every single year.

  38. madlithuanian says: Apr 12, 2011 3:07 PM

    Screw this baseball moron. That sport is unwatchable now becasue of him.

  39. skinsnut says: Apr 12, 2011 3:09 PM

    Yes, maybe no salary cap is good for the baseball players. However, I don’t think it is the only business model out there.

    The NFL owners have a business model that works quite well. So well in fact, that it dethroned baseball as America’s national pastime.

    Even I was stunned when ESPN broke away from a baseball game that featured two teams vying for a play-off spot, to an exhibition football game.

    Baseball is losing fans.

    Baseball is poorly run. The baseball owners looked the other way when players were using steroids.

    It may be, in this country, that the business model that baseball uses, is ruining the game and eventually will lead to its demise.

    It seems to me the NFL owners have a better sense of a good business model and know how to keep the sport popular and thriving.

  40. bluvayner says: Apr 12, 2011 3:13 PM

    Marvin Miller ruined baseball for everyone except the players. He did his job well, but at the expense of everyone else. Mind your business, and stay away from football old man.

  41. shackdelrio says: Apr 12, 2011 3:13 PM

    The salary cap made the NFL the dominant sport in this country. The NFL draft gets more viewers on cable than the World Series does on network television. Baseball is toiling in obscurity because of no competitive balance.

  42. nfl25 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:14 PM

    so this is the guy that ruined baseball?

  43. shackdelrio says: Apr 12, 2011 3:15 PM

    “…but also no equivalent to the Pittsburgh Pirates”

    The Browns don’t count?

  44. stetai says: Apr 12, 2011 3:17 PM

    Say what you want about how a salary cap keeps the NFL competitive, “not ruined”, etc. so it is good for the fans, however it sucks for the players.

    Two things that hurt the players, no guaranteed contracts and salary cap. so players don’t get paid as much and any given year they can be unemployed. Let’s compare that to MLB, NHL, and the NBA where there are dozens of mediocre players who make more than the NFL’s top stars.

    The NFL is way more popular so the players should be making more than other sports. And in 1993, they made sure that couldn’t happen.

  45. TurdSandwich says: Apr 12, 2011 3:25 PM

    Football.. is that still around? I’m caring less and less every day.

  46. sterling7 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:28 PM

    I love baseball and Marvin Miller is a big part of ruining baseball. Baseball is still recovering from Marvin Miller’s greed and avarice. Baseball players receive absolutely outragous salaries and most of them never fulfill anywhere near the dollar value of their contracts. Marvin Miller is a joke to sports lovers eveywhere and he was horrible for baseball. He’s a “I got mine and the players got theirs wham bam thank you mam” guy. Football should stay as far away from this clown as possible……….and while their at it get rid of “greeeeeeeeedymaurice”!

  47. chris6523 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:31 PM

    Major league baseball players received approximately 35% of total league revenue in salary in 2010 (3.3 million average salary x 25 players per team times 30 teams= about 2.5 billion/7 billion in total league revenue).

    NFL players get 60% of total league revenues after the first billion is exempted. Meaning they get 4.8 billion in salary per year out of 9 billion in league revenue. That’s 54%.

    Seems to me that NFL players are getting a bigger piece of the pie than baseball players are.

  48. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:35 PM

    skinsnut says:
    Apr 12, 2011 3:09 PM
    Baseball is losing fans.
    Baseball is poorly run. The baseball owners looked the other way when players were using steroids.
    It may be, in this country, that the business model that baseball uses, is ruining the game and eventually will lead to its demise.

    The “baseball is dying” argument has been out there forever, but once we consider that the sport has DOUBLED it’s revenues since 2003, we learn that’s a lot of hot air.

    $3.5 BILLION in additional revenues since 2003. Sheesh, what a poorly run business!

  49. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:38 PM

    sterling7 says:
    Apr 12, 2011 3:28 PM
    I love baseball and Marvin Miller is a big part of ruining baseball. Baseball is still recovering from Marvin Miller’s greed and avarice.

    I agree. Using just one example the Yankees were sold for $12 million in 1972 when Miller was running the MLBPA, and now they’re valued at over 100 times that, showing over $1.2 BILLION is franchise valuation alone. How shall baseball ever recover?

  50. borg30 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:44 PM

    @tommyf

    you also have to take into account whom manages your team. The Cardinals and Lions both had bad owners & gm’s for years.
    Great management = good teams
    The cap works very well. If the cap existed in baseball, the Yankees would never had won all those years.

  51. tremoluxman says: Apr 12, 2011 3:47 PM

    I think the biggest flaw in the CBA is the nature of contracts. They should more accurately be called Conditional Employment Agreements. How can it really be called a contract when only a small portion is guaranteed? So what if a player signs a $50 million, 6 year deal, with only $5 million and two years guaranteed? Why not just say you signed a contract for two years at $2.5 million a year? The rest is BS. The team can cut you for any reason they want after the first two years, so the $50 million, six year deal is meaningless.
    It’s like your boss dropping by your cubicle and saying that they’ll give you a fancy title and a shiny name-plate, but no more money. Big Whoop.

  52. mick730 says: Apr 12, 2011 3:50 PM

    Baseball is doomed. I heard a report on the radio the other day that the number of kids participating in little league across the United States has dropped by over twenty percent since 2005. It seems that the big draw for kids these days is Lacrosse.

    On the same radio program they compared the salary situation for the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees. If I remember correctly, four Yankee players each had a higher salary than the combined salaries of the Royals.

  53. playingtheponzi says: Apr 12, 2011 3:50 PM

    A salary floor benefits the large percentage of players who fill out rosters without great fanfare.

    Having no salary cap benefits the precious few who draw bidding wars for their services – often at the expense of lower wage players who are less with less of the pie to make due with.

    For middle and lower echelon pro athletes (that is MOST athletes) in both football and baseball, a salary cap + salary floor is a better arrangement than a capless/floorless environment, imho.

  54. capslockkey says: Apr 12, 2011 3:51 PM

    This guy’s an idiot. Salary cap has proven to work MUCH better because it creates a more competitive league which in terms makes it a more attractive product in every market and on a national level. This obviously keeps the revenues growing and growing. Growing revenues = growing salaries across the board.

    Baseball continues to slump because only a few teams can actually afford to spend the money (Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Cubs, etc) while the vast majority of the league can’t hold on to their own home grown talent because of MLB’s system. If the NFL ever started following baseball’s model where smaller markets are essentially “farm teams” for the big time clubs, I’d quit watching it altogether, just like I have with baseball.

  55. biggerballz says: Apr 12, 2011 3:52 PM

    what an idiot, no one cares about baseball and without a cap there’s no floor either

  56. dexterismyhero says: Apr 12, 2011 3:53 PM

    What about Tiger Woods?

  57. bigd9484 says: Apr 12, 2011 4:00 PM

    Say what you want about how a salary cap keeps the NFL competitive, “not ruined”, etc. so it is good for the fans, however it sucks for the players.

    Two things that hurt the players, no guaranteed contracts and salary cap. so players don’t get paid as much and any given year they can be unemployed. Let’s compare that to MLB, NHL, and the NBA where there are dozens of mediocre players who make more than the NFL’s top stars.

    The NFL is way more popular so the players should be making more than other sports. And in 1993, they made sure that couldn’t happen.

    There are exactly two types of people you should ask if it “sucks” for players. The top 5%, the Peyton Mannings, Tom Bradys, and Julius Peppers of the world, then the Special Teams blockers, backups, and the like, as they made the veterans minimum, which is higher than MLB after 4 years of service (400k vs 310 for 1st year NFL players to almost $1 mil for 8+ years of service). I am in no way saying that the union should stop trying, in fact, I would argue that the minimums should be raised for the backups, but the top guys are paid plenty. No one is hurting for money, and the level playing field keeps fans coming back

  58. deljzc says: Apr 12, 2011 4:00 PM

    I’m sorry, but this is why fans shouldn’t be pro-player in any CBA squabble.

    The players position is always how to get the most RIGHT NOW. It was back in 1966 and in 2011. They have no concern about the Goose, they just want more and more of the golden egg.

    Heck, I read that Aesop Fable to my 4-year old last night and it holds so true for how Jeffrey Kessler, Marvin Miller and other union leaders feel it’s insane.

    They would kill the goose if it meant 10% more in salary because according to Miller, that’s looking out for the people that are hiring him. Future players didn’t hire him. Past players didn’t hire him. Only the CURRENT players matter.

    Fans ALWAYS need to be pro-owner because they at least have a long-term interest in their investment – which is the league’s health and well-being (which is based on fan appreciation/ratings/money spent).

    I know it makes some sick to support billionaires, but it’s really the only position that benefits the fans in the long run.

  59. FinFan68 says: Apr 12, 2011 4:07 PM

    stetai says:
    Apr 12, 2011 3:17 PM
    Say what you want about how a salary cap keeps the NFL competitive, “not ruined”, etc. so it is good for the fans, however it sucks for the players.
    ——————-
    That’s a pretty shallow assessment. A minimum salary of at least $325,000 doesn’t “suck”. The “elite players” earn several million in salary. (Brady’s is close to $23 million per year) and many of the so called “stars” get signing bonuses and other incentive/roster bonuses that often exceed their base salaries. How, exactly, does that suck for the players?

  60. JSpicoli says: Apr 12, 2011 4:09 PM

    Caps make it so you have to get rid of players after a period of success. You can’t pay everyone 0on the roster like a Super Bowl Champ at his position and stay under the cap.

    Teams dissolve, fan suffer. Don’t buy a jersey of your favorite player. He’ll be on your rival in 3 years.

  61. tommyf15 says: Apr 12, 2011 4:22 PM

    borg30 says:
    you also have to take into account whom manages your team. The Cardinals and Lions both had bad owners & gm’s for years.

    I agree with this, but I also think that some fans hold up teams like the Royals and Pirates as examples of baseball’s “failed” system, when in fact those teams are every bit as mismanaged as the teams you mention.

  62. fatguystrangler says: Apr 12, 2011 4:29 PM

    I’m glad baseball has kept Marvin Miller out of the Baseball Hall of Fame. Him and his buddy Don Fehr belong nowhere near Cooperstown.

  63. thefiesty1 says: Apr 12, 2011 4:55 PM

    This is a football site. Listening to this jerk is ridicules, unless you want pro football to be a 50 week season of meaningless games.

  64. oumoonunit says: Apr 12, 2011 5:03 PM

    Marvin Miller clearly didn’t care about the fans or the sport. There is a reason baseball rating have dropped off the map. I hate people who can’t see the big picture.

  65. gpack22 says: Apr 12, 2011 5:03 PM

    AND NO ONE WATCHES BASEBALL. No cap has driven the sport to football’s backseat…h*ll, more like trunk. Ratings suck and everyone knows that after week 1 of the season 1/2 teams in the league are essentially done.

  66. facebook.com/joesimmonscomic AKA Slow Joe (Bucs fan) says: Apr 12, 2011 5:06 PM

    The people who approve/delete comments suck.

    Why on Earth is mine not on here? There was no foul language nor questionable content.

  67. terrellblowens says: Apr 12, 2011 5:43 PM

    The thing that makes football fun is that every team is in it, regardless of how rich the owner is or how big of a market the city is. Baseball sucks because really only 3 teams stay competitive

  68. epping16 says: Apr 12, 2011 5:53 PM

    The comments here show the true lack of knowledge that comes to this website.

    People saying there is only 6 or 7 real MLB teams…..maybe you should look into it, in the last 10 years there have been more cities celebrate a World Series than a Superbowl victory.

    People saying that the MLB is struggling for money. There is more garaunteed money to players in MLB than there is in the NFL. These guys get GARAUNTEED contracts, while most money in the NFL comes from a “roster bonus” (not garaunteed)

    People saying Marvin Miller ruined baseball. You do realize he was hired to represent the PLAYERS. That was his job, and he did it alot better than anyone for the NFLPA* is currently doing.

    Obviously the NFL is the most popular sports in the Unites States, but they have plenty of flaws. The MLBPA is in much better shape than the NFLPA*

  69. moseszd says: Apr 12, 2011 5:57 PM

    Yes, because we can have a two-tier league like the NBA or MLB where some teams, save for occasional good (and soon to be raided) rosters are permanent second and third tier teams…

    While the damn Yankees go to the playoffs almost ever year and former fans like myself just gave up and tuned out.

    So now the NBA and MLB, which have major competitive balance issues due to the ‘rich team, poor-team’ structures are suffering. The NBA has dropped 45% in the past decade. MLB which has dropped over 65% since 1980 and Marvin Miller…

    So, yeah, don’t have a salary cap. Don’t share revenues. Don’t work to preserve the league and it’s future. Just kill the damn golden goose for short-term gains. And, heck, killing it will have some upside, at least half of us will be done with professional sports as we get tired of never having a chance and do something more productive with our Sundays.

  70. fbman says: Apr 12, 2011 6:01 PM

    tommyf15 says:
    Apr 12, 2011 2:18 PM
    “Let me jump in before MILLERBASH~! gets rolling.

    If you were to hire a lawyer, would you want that person to do what was best for you? Because Miller did for the MLBPA- the guys that hired him- and not the owners.

    There’s no evidence that a salary cap creates parity. Read it again, because it’s true. College football essentially has one, and the same teams win every year. Ditto college basketball. With a cap almost every year the Patriots are good and the Cardinals suck. Without a cap the Steelers and Niners had dynasties and the Cardinals still sucked.

    Give this post a thumbs down if I told you an inconvenient truth that you were happier not reading.”

    So wrong in so many ways. Comparing college sports at all, where no one gets paid, is a ridiculous comparison that I’m not going to discuss any more. My favorite part of your comparison is using the Arizona Cardinals. They were in the Super Bowl in 2009. Nice argument. When’s the last time the Pirates were in the world series? More than 30 years ago. When’s the last time they made the playoffs? 20 years ago.

    The biggest problem with Miller’s idiotic take is that the Salary Cap has been the best thing ever for the players. Because of the cap Football has become THE sport in the US, and the players’ revenues have grown at a ridiculous pace. Miller’s view, similarly to the players view right now, is a shortsighted view that would cost them money over the long run.

  71. moseszd says: Apr 12, 2011 6:08 PM

    tommyf15 says:
    Apr 12, 2011 2:18 PM
    Let me jump in before MILLERBASH~! gets rolling.

    If you were to hire a lawyer, would you want that person to do what was best for you? Because Miller did for the MLBPA- the guys that hired him- and not the owners.

    Nobody denies the plaintiffs should be short-term, league-wrecking greedy bastards. Who cares what happens after they get theirs, right?

    Because that IS their attitude. And they can have it.

    Owners and fans, however, are in it for the long-term. The very long term. Lifetimes and not a decade or less.

    And any ownership group that did what baseball did would destroy the NFL. And it is why fans of the NFL are, in this case, the natural allies of ownership, not the players.

    Where is Ricky Watters? Where is John Brodie. Where is Dave Parks. Honestly, I appreciated them when they played for my team, but it’s decades later and I really don’t care. I do care about the current 49ers and where they’re going.

    There’s no evidence that a salary cap creates parity. Read it again, because it’s true. College football essentially has one, and the same teams win every year. Ditto college basketball. With a cap almost every year the Patriots are good and the Cardinals suck. Without a cap the Steelers and Niners had dynasties and the Cardinals still sucked.

    There is every bit of evidence that lack of a salary cap, revenue sharing and drafts do create a lack of parity.

    For example, there is no ‘incoming freshman’ draft for college sports. Thus, no parity.

    There is no revenue sharing in baseball, or salary cap. Thus, no parity.

    OTOH, the NFL has the draft (parity), the salary cap to reduce the effects of FA (parity) and revenue sharing (generating parity as one team cannot significantly, over the long run, out-spend another in FA).

    Give this post a thumbs down if I told you an inconvenient truth that you were happier not reading.

    Thumbs down because you’re dumb and arrogant and just got it as wrong as can be gotten.

  72. football2011 says: Apr 12, 2011 6:14 PM

    Miller is just another pathetic old man reliving his glory days. He hasn’t been relevant for 30 years and thats a good thing.

  73. arcaero says: Apr 12, 2011 6:27 PM

    tommyf15

    You are big on quoting numbers….in 1972 I could buy a new car for $2000. Gas was $.29 a gallon.

    So what is that $12M Steinbrenner laid down worth today?

  74. monkeesfan says: Apr 12, 2011 6:41 PM

    This is the insanity of Marvin Miller and baseball – salary caps reflect the reality that SPENDING has to be controlled. Miller even today refuses to realize that there is an objective limit to what players ought to make, that their objective value is not as high as he or they might think it is; they’re not being denied their TRUE value. Not representing the law? They were ADHERING to the law as well as the reality of economics.

    People wonder why a number of MLB teams hold their payrolls down – the rules make it too expensive to spend more than they do. The NFL doesn’t have that – the system makes it worth all teams’ while to spend real money.

  75. brasho says: Apr 12, 2011 6:55 PM

    Hmmm, free agency began in the early 90′s with a salary cap of $32 million… the last year of the cap it was $132 million… FREE AGENCY is great for everybody… except the fans who have had to pay the bills and salaries… everybody’s making out like crazy exept for us… EFF FREE AGENCY, EFF MARVIN MILLER!

  76. duffer58 says: Apr 12, 2011 10:05 PM

    With no salary cap Peyton Manning would not be in Indy. He would be in Dallas or Washington by now.
    Baseball is a joke most of the teams have no way to compete year to year with big boys. Let me know the next time Royals or Pirates make the playoffs

  77. mastafade says: Apr 12, 2011 10:40 PM

    2 words Marv: SHUT UP!

  78. dadawg77 says: Apr 12, 2011 11:56 PM

    Cap or nor cap has nothing to do with parity in the NFL. Revenue sharing would create a cap with or with out cap. And that is the biggest reason why teams like Green Bay can compete with large market teams while baseball has no revenue sharing. With your larger market NFL teams (NE, Dallas, etc..) trying to eliminate it, the NFL could end up with a baseball-like economic disparity between teams. Another major reason for parity is the nature of the game and injuries. If a NFL star player on a good team goes down, his team will struggle most of the time and regress towards the pack.

    Three other reasons football is more popular then baseball right now are: football is a weekly event; much easier to gamble on; the pace and violence of the game are better suited for this era’s zeitgeist as baseball was inline the past.

    Salary caps have little if anything to do with it. Caps are about protecting a team’s profits by restricting market for services of the players. The market restrictions will lead to lower cost for the service thus creating more profit.

    Also if you look at the number of winning teams, playoff team and so forth, MLB has much more parity then football.

  79. nygiantstones says: Apr 13, 2011 12:28 AM

    Are you kidding me, MDS? The players playing for the Pirates wouldn’t even be on the starting lineup for any other MLB teams. You could say they are a case for contraction, but the Pirates analogy does nothing to support your assertion regarding a salary floor. Give me a break. Seems to me the salary floor protects the fans and the other owners from a partner sucking their funds without reinvesting in their own team, not the players. Please. If the NFL wasn’t paying special teamers 500K a year, those players would be playing in Canada or somewhere else.

  80. monkeesfan says: Apr 13, 2011 2:33 PM

    dadawg77 is wrong. The cap has limited spending in the league to what the revenues can afford, and it also opened up more opportunities for more teams. Baseball may have had a striking number of different WS winners the last decade but it does not have as great a number of competitive teams.

  81. stetai says: Apr 18, 2011 3:47 PM

    Don’t listen to these people NFL players! Hold out to get paid what your worth.

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