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Shaun King points out Gruden doesn’t develop young quarterbacks

S. King

Ryan Mallett, Jake Locker, and Cam Newton had to go through Jon Gruden’s “QB camp” for a day.  Former Bucs quarterback Shaun King lived it for two years.

King, now host of the King David Show on WQYK-AM 1010  in Tampa, won’t turn on Gruden’s program out of principle.

“I won’t watch it. I disagree with the premise of the show.  The premise is that Gruden is some quarterbacks guru and that having him as a destination for a rookie QB is the ideal situation for a rookie and that just hasn’t proven to the case,” King said via JoeBucsFan.com.

King has a point.  Gruden never successfully developed young quarterbacks as a head coach.  He found success with Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, and later moderate success with Brian Griese and Jeff Garcia.  Chucky failed to truly develop King, Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms.

We have no doubt Gruden is a difficult coach for a young quarterback to play for.  His personal history doesn’t detract from the show, though.

If anything, Gruden’s willingness to push buttons makes it more fun to watch.

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80 Responses to “Shaun King points out Gruden doesn’t develop young quarterbacks”
  1. broncsfan says: Apr 19, 2011 10:41 AM

    Well, with the exception of Simms, who was pretty good before he became maybe the first QB to end the season one internal organ lighter than he started, Gruden never really even tried. Just round up 7 castoff vets and draft D seemed to be the philosophy then in TB.

  2. duanethomas says: Apr 19, 2011 10:43 AM

    I said the same thing when this Gruden Camp was announced by ESPN, and got nothing but thumbs down. Gruden is a QB killer and has never develop a young quarterback. How can people forget his reputation and appoint him now a QB guru? I see why now The NFLPA*/NFL have no regard for fans. Short-term memory and gullible.

  3. nps6724 says: Apr 19, 2011 10:46 AM

    To be fair, Gruden never got his hands on a QUALITY young QB. If any of those guys were truly good, they’d have gone elsewhere and succeeded.

  4. jw731 says: Apr 19, 2011 10:50 AM

    Let me preface my comment by saying i always thought Gruden coatailed on Dungy’s team, he built it, and Gruden cashed in..Gruden’s just a ESPN created bag of air, when the real reason the Bucs won was their d coordinator….That being said, Shaun King, as a QB in the NFL, if he had any talent would not have needed Gruden, and now’s he’s bitching?…….Please…..

  5. bombacim says: Apr 19, 2011 10:51 AM

    King, Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms were all crappy qbs coming out of college from crappy college systems. So maybe Gruden is an expert actually on what to look for in crappy qb’s.

  6. jamie54 says: Apr 19, 2011 10:55 AM

    Fun to watch? No, King is absolutely right. ESPN has time to fill and is paying Gruden so they developed a BS show. Sorry, rather watch NBA, NHL playoffs and/or MLB than this make believe reality wannabe show.

  7. owen16 says: Apr 19, 2011 10:57 AM

    Would those QBs have had success elsewhere?

  8. packfntk says: Apr 19, 2011 10:59 AM

    Maybe because he saw that you sucked Shaun.

  9. bwisnasky says: Apr 19, 2011 10:59 AM

    Jon Gruden is the 2nd most overhyped coach in the world, behind only Shannahan…. He single-handedly was responsible for losing the snowjob game… if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative… and as King says.. couldn’t develop a polaroid picture….

  10. captainwisdom8888 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:01 AM

    I believe Jon Gruden is more qualified to be a QB guru, than Shaun King is qualified to call him out on anything.

  11. smarterthantheaveragebearfan says: Apr 19, 2011 11:01 AM

    The facts do tend to prove King’s point…..

  12. gergie1957 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:01 AM

    Again Proof, if you put a show on TV, cover it with pizazz and Bulls$@t people will watch it.

  13. medialovesthecowboys says: Apr 19, 2011 11:02 AM

    What happened to Shaun King? He didn’t have any arrests, no drug problems, married with a kid. Dude just fell off.

  14. joetoronto says: Apr 19, 2011 11:02 AM

    Gruden has always gone with veterans and stayed away from rookies, it’s just how he is.

    The Raider team Bruce Allen and he built was full of veterans and when they shot their load in 2002, it didn’t leave much at all going forward into the future.

    Hence the dry spell for the team.

  15. biged1340am says: Apr 19, 2011 11:02 AM

    Hmmmmm…who was the head coach when Shaun King lost the starting job to Brad Johnson?? Would that be Tony Dungy? Damn that Gruden!! Oh, and who was benched after starting the Steelers/Bucs Monday Night game in 2002 to Rob “just got sacked again” Johnson? Would that be Shaun??

  16. nps6724 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:05 AM

    if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative…

    ——————————————-

    You call him too conservative while suggesting he run with a slow-footed FB on 4th down? Really?

  17. JSpicoli says: Apr 19, 2011 11:06 AM

    The emporer has no clothes.

  18. johnnyoclock says: Apr 19, 2011 11:06 AM

    On the flip side, it’s hard to develop young qbs who don’t have a lot of potential in the first place. Even Bill Walsh didn’t win with some.

  19. CJ says: Apr 19, 2011 11:08 AM

    I think this sells short Gruden’s skills in developing QBs. He may have missed on a few as a head coach, but let’s be serious, we’re talking about Shaun King and Bruce Gradkowski, among others. Did these guys go anywhere else and do much better? If not, then you can’t put the blame solely on “Gruden the QB Killer”. Maybe he’s not the best QB drafter, that would be a fair point.

  20. chapnastier says: Apr 19, 2011 11:11 AM

    Anyone who has watched Gruden’s little QB thing knows what kind of a joke it is. It is like listening to Madden call a game, while it might be entertaining he isn’t saying anything that we can’t figure out on our own.

  21. bubs215 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:11 AM

    What part about this show claims Chucky is there to help develop a young QB? Its a 30 minute show/interview where you get a small glimpse of how the prospects react to some tough questions/situations and they throw a few passes. Its great in my opinion to see how they handle themselves around him and his questions and comments.

  22. fatalfact says: Apr 19, 2011 11:12 AM

    I think the show does have creditability for that very reason. John gruden has always LOVED the qb position. He has immersed himself in all the fine details of what it is they do on a consistent basis. The running joke during grudens coaching days is that he never met a quarterback he didn’t love. John Gruden knows what to look for in a quarterback to make it in the NFL. I do agree that perhaps he isn’t the strongest individual to coach new players to become what they need to be. But you can’t tell me that he would have much success “Coaching” quarterbacks in a made for TV special anyways.. The one thing anybody can do in that period of time is pinpoint strength and weaknesses. Which he is clearly fantastic at doing….

  23. waxthat says: Apr 19, 2011 11:12 AM

    I like Gruden as a person and he is a very hard worker, but I feel he is overrated..especially in his ability to evaluate young QB prospects. So relieved the Niners ended up with Harbaugh instead of someone like Chucky.

  24. dukemarc says: Apr 19, 2011 11:15 AM

    I prefer watching “Game Changers” on the NFL Network to Gruden auditioning for his next coaching gig. They actually seem to be teaching the kids something. And say what you will about Mooch, but he is qualified to coach QBs.

  25. NFL Football Now says: Apr 19, 2011 11:15 AM

    Still better than 90% of their programming.

  26. Richard Dickson says: Apr 19, 2011 11:16 AM

    Gruden didn’t want rookie QBs because he couldn’t afford the time to teach them the basics as well as the mammoth playbook he loved so much. Better to have an experienced QB try to choke all that down than some kid who’s never read a pro defense.

  27. Nevis says: Apr 19, 2011 11:16 AM

    King is 100% correct and a big reason why I didn’t want him as the Niners coach….a solid HC, sure, but not elite and not someone to grow a QB from the ground up.

    He’s the kind of HC that needs a solid vet under center; all his success has shown that (Gannon, Johnson).

  28. paul82461 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:18 AM

    King had his chance, thats why he is a radio host.Gruden is just having some fun with the rookies, seeing what he believes will need corrected once drafted.

  29. stoutfiles says: Apr 19, 2011 11:19 AM

    Shaun’s just mad that Gruden never drooled all over him like he does with every single QB in the draft.

  30. supashug says: Apr 19, 2011 11:20 AM

    correct packfan, who the hell is Shaun King, he sucked. Hell his name is even spelled wrong

  31. tomwill21 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:20 AM

    And let’s keep it real. Gruden didn’t have success with Brad Johnson, he had success with Dungy’s defense and Callahaun’s inability to coach…

  32. teambringitstrong says: Apr 19, 2011 11:23 AM

    @duanethomas the reason u got thumbs down is b/c u never played at that level so ur comments are just more blowhard, spiteful rhetoric.

  33. tehowdruid says: Apr 19, 2011 11:28 AM

    BOOM! Headshot.

  34. itorrey says: Apr 19, 2011 11:29 AM

    This show is so boring that after watching the Cam Newton episode I pulled up the Jake Locker episode on my DVR and after 20min of boredom I realized I was watching the end of a college baseball game that had taped instead.

  35. wiscobob says: Apr 19, 2011 11:30 AM

    King sounds bitter.
    Let’s us not forget that Gruden was the QB coach in Grren Bay when a certain number 4 was a second year nobody. Gruden coached up one of the greatest there ever was.

  36. bucyou2 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:43 AM

    He never drafted a decent QB (he never drafted anyone that was any good to be honest….)
    In 05′ he could have pulled the trigger on Rogers, in 06′ he could have gotten up in the draft like the Broncos and taken Cutler. In 07 there was Kolb in the 2nd round. In 08′ he could have made a small move to grab Flacco. Those are all reasonable options that are anything but far fetched. If he missed once or twice on a first or second round pick, that would be one thing. But there are no excellent players with good character drafted by Gruden/Allen. So, yeah, I think Gruden might be an ok OC, but I was happy to see fresh blood in the GM and HC spots and look who they brought in.
    Freeman(already making a name for himself as a comeback franchise QB), KellenWinslow, Roy Miller, Kyle Moore, Sammie Stroughter, E.J. Biggers, Gerald McCoy, Brian Price, Arrellious Benn, Mike Williams, and LeGarrett Blount.

    Someone prove to me that Gruden and Allen had a small clue about drafting? Or could they not develop players?
    They drafted guys like Clayton, Cadillac, Davin Joseph, Gaines Adams, and Aqib Talib. Those are only the first round mistakes. Look at the Bucs’ drafts under Gruden/Allen and you’ll wonder how they won any games. Horrible scouting and drafting over a 5 year span. Yeah, Gruden sucks with young QBs….and WRs, and RBs, and OL, and DBs and any other position you might play in this great game we love.

  37. phinfan says: Apr 19, 2011 11:44 AM

    Yup. Billick 2.0

  38. medtxpack says: Apr 19, 2011 11:45 AM

    i think the issue is more of could any coach develop King, Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms!
    Love the show, if anything it puts these rookie QB stars in a situation that they have to explain themselves and really show their football smarts.

  39. fifteenclubs says: Apr 19, 2011 11:51 AM

    This coming from one of the most undisciplined players in team history. Have you seen that guy lately. 6′ tall and he’s pushing 300 lbs. King included, we’re not exactly talking about blue chip prospects. QB’s from college powerhouses like Tulane, SDSU, Toledo and La. Tech typically do really well in the NFL, right?!?

  40. xxwhodatxx says: Apr 19, 2011 11:53 AM

    Why does everyone praise Gruden as the know all of everything football? I just don’t get it, he’s ruined MNF with his crap commentary and now they give him a whole show dedicated to his retarded analysis. What the hell is going on!!!!

  41. moseszd says: Apr 19, 2011 11:53 AM

    I should point out that all those QBs were failures everywhere. That nobody could develop them.

    OTOH, it’s not like Rich Gannon was a that good of a QB when he went to the Raiders. Fact is Gannon became a 4x pro-bowler, 2x 1st team All-Pro QB under Gruden, not in Minnesota, not in Washington and not in Kansas City…

  42. whatswiththehate says: Apr 19, 2011 12:00 PM

    “If anything, Gruden’s willingness to push buttons makes it more fun to watch.’
    ——————-
    So he’s nothing more than a “reality show” actor for folks in the sports media. It’s clear a lot of the silly things he did with Jake, Mallett, Cam and Blaine was was nothing new. He simply push a preception about these QBs that was already generated by his friends in the sports media.

    His video clips with Cam, Mallett, Jake, and especially Blaine, were all a waste of time none of us will get back.

  43. giantrealist says: Apr 19, 2011 12:01 PM

    There isn’t a coach on this planet who could have developed Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms.

    All Chucky was point out is that Cam’s offense ran plays drawn in the dirt with a finger.

  44. nothimagain says: Apr 19, 2011 12:03 PM

    I also was unable to develop the following players: King, Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms.

    – God

  45. BC says: Apr 19, 2011 12:14 PM

    But all the young QB’s listed in this post stunk on ice. Who was doing the drafting?

  46. snookau says: Apr 19, 2011 12:20 PM

    Chucky isn’t just awful at developing young QBs… he’s awful at developing any young talent. Look at his draft record with the Bucs. Pathetic.

    Where’s Dexter Jackson these days, Chucky?

    I’m glad Gruden’s gone. Without his firing, Josh Freeman would be playing somewhere else.

  47. blackdb says: Apr 19, 2011 12:24 PM

    I think he is more comfortable with a mature qb that already understands the rigors of the nfl. That does not make him a bad coach. He does have a super bowl ring as a head coach. There are a lot of great nfl head coaches that have never won one.

  48. snookau says: Apr 19, 2011 12:25 PM

    And let’s keep it real. Gruden didn’t have success with Brad Johnson, he had success with Dungy’s defense and Callahaun’s inability to coach…

    Callahaun’s inability to coach got the Bucs all the way to the Super Bowl? Interesting?

    I’m not a huge Gruden fan but the 2002 Bucs had only 26 players (of 53) from Dungy’s 2001 team. Gruden infused a new energy and willed that team to the Super Bowl. Even Warren Sapp has admitted that.

    Its not Chucky’s fault the Raiders were there meeting the Bucs. In fact, shouldn’t the Raiders D been equipped to stop Tampa’s offense that day? They had no answer for the 100+ rushing yards or Brad Johnson’s 2 TDs.

  49. makimaguro says: Apr 19, 2011 12:25 PM

    Has Gruden ever even been a quarterbacks coach? Couldn’t find it on Wiki.

  50. bucyou2 says: Apr 19, 2011 12:37 PM

    Exactly BC!
    No Buc draft under Gruden was good. So, yeah, he had no real talent to work with, but mostly because he didnt go out and draft talent or bring in good FAs. He brought in a 31 year old Charlie Garner and gave him boatloads of money and guys like Todd Stuessie? What was he thinking? He also signed Rob Johnson in 2002 if you recall…. Gruden having an eye for talent….I dont think so.

  51. fsfwannabe says: Apr 19, 2011 12:43 PM

    I’ve always felt like anything Gruden says about good quarterbacking is like Barry Switzer talking about coaching a winning NFL team.

    In general Gruden was adverse to developing talent. It’s hard to tell where his bad coaching and Bruce Allen’s awful drafting come into play with it, but Jon’s a blowhard who got most of his successes handed to him and was able to not screw it up one out of the few times he had a Super Bowl caliber team.

  52. tbtrojan says: Apr 19, 2011 12:50 PM

    Shaun King – had his shot and had already been replaced by Dungy & McKay in Tampa before Gruden arrived.
    Marques Tuiasosopo – Was under Gruden for a whole one year, was he expected to start over soon to be league MVP Rich Gannon as a rookie?
    Bruce Gradkowski – Gimme a freakin break, the guy was a 6th round pick for a reason, he showed nothing in Tampa and was replaced by another developmental later rounder called…
    Josh Johnson – I guess Gruden should have thrust the 5th round rookie from a small school right into the starting lineup in place of the QB that took us to the NFC South title the previous year. That was the ONE year he played under Gruden.
    Chris Simms – A guy Gruden never even wanted but had forced on him by McKay. Had no potential for the pro game but managed to live off daddies name. If Griese hadn’t done such a good job helping the team to a 5-1 record before getting hurt in 05 Simms never would have been able to “guide the team to the payoffs”
    Luke McCown -Cleveland already gave up on him, veterans questioned his leadership skills, was dumped by Grudens replacement and thrown a whole 22 passes in 2 years withthe Jags. The guy just didn’t have “it”

    Gruden never had a young QB to develop, who exactly was he meant to develop out of those that had coached for one year or flat out had no talent?
    Young QBs Favre & McNabb came along quite nicely when he was on the staffs of the Packers and Eagles, Mark Brunell turned out ok after spending his first 2 years under a coaching staff that included Gruden. Rich Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson & Brian Griese all played well under him.

    The guy can coach, it’s just a matter of the player actually having some talent to work with, more than a year to do it and not being stuck behind league MVPs and division winners.

  53. raider8er says: Apr 19, 2011 1:01 PM

    King my be a little bit bitter but he is correct. His best QB was Gannon who already had years under his belt.

  54. sophandros says: Apr 19, 2011 1:01 PM

    When the Bucs got to the NFC Championship game in 99, who was their starting QB?

  55. mjke3041 says: Apr 19, 2011 1:11 PM

    Shaun king was terrible when he played for gruden…. and when he played for Dungy…. and when he played for Dennis green!!!!

  56. bwisnasky says: Apr 19, 2011 1:11 PM

    nps6724 says: Apr 19, 2011 11:05 AM

    if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative…

    ——————————————-

    You call him too conservative while suggesting he run with a slow-footed FB on 4th down? Really?

    ————————————————-
    Yes I do, when Crockett had converted 98% of the 3rd and 4th and 1’s he had faced all year long. They tried on 3rd down and failed, and that’s when “Chucky” got too conservative…. I would have played the percentages

  57. yourrealmom says: Apr 19, 2011 1:12 PM

    Gruden may not have been the best coach for QB..but its also not easy to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t Shaun King was a bad QB as was pretty much everyone on that list

  58. pftdabomb says: Apr 19, 2011 1:24 PM

    Good point on him not developing a Young QB, but then again, of those named in the article, did any of them turnout to be any good post Gruden? It could be, Mr King, that you were never a very good NFL QB? Reflect on yourself.

  59. bucyou2 says: Apr 19, 2011 1:35 PM

    Current Buc starters from the Gruden/Allen draft regime.

    Quincy Black
    Geno Hayes
    Barrett Ruud
    Michael Bennett
    Aqib Talib (maybe?)
    Tanard Jackson (maybe?)

    Jeremy Zuttah
    Jeremy Trueblood (maybe?)
    Davin Joseph
    Earnest Graham

    Out of 50+ selections from 2002-2008 this is the best of the best that Gruden drafted.
    Horrible and embarrassing.

    When did he have a prolific offense? Why is he an “offensive guru?” He is media hype.

    I am grateful to him because I truly believe Dungy would not have won a super bowl here, and now the Bucs are part of the club now that they have the hardware. But it was all downhill after that. I remember the “Tampa, you aint seen nothing yet!” speech. I thought he meant that good things were to come….my bad.

    And for the record, Dungy is hype too. If you have Manning for that long and you only have one ring….really? You think thats all on Manning choking? Again, once or twice, maybe, but they were doormats for a far less talented Patriots team year in and year out. And Caldwell is a big step down. If Palmer wants out because he doesnt think he can win under Marvin Lewis, Manning should realize there are teams out there that if they had him on their roster could win one, maybe two more Lombardi trophies. Thoughts????

  60. zam1104 says: Apr 19, 2011 1:55 PM

    I don’t think Gruden can adapt his game to meet his players’ skills. That’s where guys like Belachick or Cowher excel, and why they are consistent winners.

    He wants HIS offense, and damn your eyes if you don’t run a play to perfection and make HIS offense look less than brilliant.

  61. helinhater says: Apr 19, 2011 1:56 PM

    Great question – Where is Dexter Jackson?

    Because blaming the fired coach for a guy’s inability to make it in the NFL (Which stands for NOT FOR LONG) makes perfect, brilliant, sense.

    Maybe Gruden is also at fault for Aqib Talib being a piece of sh*t.

  62. snowpea84 says: Apr 19, 2011 1:57 PM

    So he “failed” to turn a bunch of young mediocre QB’s into more than mediocre QB’s, but was able to take older mediocre QB’s who were willing and able to do what was aked of them into very efficient players.
    You do kind of have to wonder what the guy could do with a top talent, or even something close to that.
    The fact he got any productivity at all oout of the younger guys he had is kind of amazing.

  63. helinhater says: Apr 19, 2011 2:00 PM

    Also, what is really killing me here is the fact that so many of you believe Gruden had final say over his roster.

    The GENERAL MANAGER was none other than Bruce Allen…

    Bruce Allen was also the GM in Oakland.

    So, if you want to critique someones inability to find decent young players, you might want to start with the guy picking the players and leading the scouts.

    Because the coaching staff is busy coaching.

    I swear every day, this site/country in general gets worse as more and more ignorant individuals who lack the ability to think about a topic decide to spout off their thoughts.

  64. mogogo1 says: Apr 19, 2011 2:01 PM

    Two things always struck me about Gruden: 1) He was this young offensive mastermind with the Raiders who relied on his defense to win for his entire time in Tampa…How’d that come about? 2) He never seemed to know what he wanted from his QB. He didn’t like Brad Johnson, even though they had success with him, always was in love with mobile QBs…yet he goes and drafts Chris Simms?

  65. CKL says: Apr 19, 2011 2:01 PM

    bwisnasky says: Apr 19, 2011 10:59 AM

    Jon Gruden is the 2nd most overhyped coach in the world, behind only Shannahan…. He single-handedly was responsible for losing the snowjob game… if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative… and as King says.. couldn’t develop a polaroid picture….
    __________________________________
    Look I’m hardly a Gruden lover and it’s interesting you put him with Shanny becaue I think he’s sort of Shanny-like. Good offensive mind, as a HC not so great. That said, I think either he or Gannon or both have commented in the past that the failure to convert on that one run play was a big deal in why they lost that game.

    Gruden even admitted in the Locker episode that he loves “45-46 year old QBs”.

    And I think Gruden has done a good job pounding on these kids on both years he has done this show. I want a QB who absolutely RELISHES hard coaching and I think Gruden’s jabs at these kids show who can and can’t handle it a little bit. The one so far this year who has shown it the BEST appears to be Locker. I’m not sure Locker has the goods skills wise to be a great QB but I love EVERYTHING else about him (intangibles).

  66. pitch87mph says: Apr 19, 2011 2:08 PM

    Sound like sour grapes. Not suggesting that what he says isn’t true. The evidence suggests Gruden has little patience to let young guys develop. He wants to win NOW and prefers the veteran. But King intentionally and consciously choosing to NOT watch the show sounds like pure spite to me. Grow up man. You’re an over the hill QB that had limited physical skills anyway, who probably was destined for a backup role regardless of who the coach was. It’s a good show and intentionally not watching it is just immature and further hints perhaps why greatness would have always alluded him.

  67. dgforreal says: Apr 19, 2011 2:09 PM

    Anyone who knows even a little bit about Gruden knows this already.

    Doesn’t mean that he’s unqualified to critique them though.

  68. lawyermalloy says: Apr 19, 2011 2:24 PM

    While Gruden may not be a “QB guru”,Shaun King
    certainly isn’t the right person to go to as an authority. This guy never had the talent to be successful in the NFL.

  69. bwisnasky says: Apr 19, 2011 2:32 PM

    Its not Chucky’s fault the Raiders were there meeting the Bucs. In fact, shouldn’t the Raiders D been equipped to stop Tampa’s offense that day? They had no answer for the 100+ rushing yards or Brad Johnson’s 2 TDs.

    —————————————
    Actually, they didn’t have an answer for their center losing his mind and going AWOL down in Tijuana.. Thus making the veteran Gannon throw 5 picks including 3 ran back for touchdowns…. That whole fiasco goes back to Barrett Robbins and his illness…. And the fact that he wasn’t taking his medication for said illness…

  70. Cowboys-Forum says: Apr 19, 2011 2:56 PM

    oh please, King also failed in the AFL i suppose thats Grudens fault also.

  71. lgbarn says: Apr 19, 2011 3:04 PM

    bwisnasky says:
    Apr 19, 2011 2:32 PM

    ctually, they didn’t have an answer for their center losing his mind and going AWOL down in Tijuana.. Thus making the veteran Gannon throw 5 picks including 3 ran back for touchdowns….

    ——————————-

    This had nothing to do with it. Losing your center hurts but Oakland never changed their plays. Even John Lynch said during the game that it was just like practice. Gruden was the QB for their practices leading up to the Superbowl. He called all the Raider plays so they new exactly was was called on every play.

    I love Dungy for what he did for Tampa but people forget that Oakland waxed the Bucs 45-0 the year before. It was the perfect storm for the Bucs and they cashed in on it.

  72. Richard Dickson says: Apr 19, 2011 3:06 PM

    And while he didn’t set the world on fire, Shaun King was the QB of the Bucs team that went to the ’99 NFC Championship Game. Admittedly, that team totally rode the defense (probably the best Bucs defense of all time), but King was a rookie QB that year and showed some flashes.

  73. tombrookshire says: Apr 19, 2011 3:08 PM

    At the top of that list, there are some pretty decent QBs. However, about midway and down, with the exception of Gradkowski, there were some pretty crappy ones. Given the 80/20 rule, why should Gruden waste his time working with guys who were never going to be anything but backups? He knew it and they should have figured it out. King was such a good QB that he is a radio host.

  74. JSpicoli says: Apr 19, 2011 3:16 PM

    Marques Tuiasisopo

  75. bwisnasky says: Apr 19, 2011 3:31 PM

    This had nothing to do with it. Losing your center hurts but Oakland never changed their plays. Even John Lynch said during the game that it was just like practice. Gruden was the QB for their practices leading up to the Superbowl. He called all the Raider plays so they new exactly was was called on every play.

    I love Dungy for what he did for Tampa but people forget that Oakland waxed the Bucs 45-0 the year before. It was the perfect storm for the Bucs and they cashed in on it.
    ———————————————
    Really? Losing your probowl center, the day before your biggest game.. the guy who has called all the coverages for 16 regular season games and 2 post season games…. had nothing to do with the fact of Tampa getting constant pressure up the middle and forcing a guy that had a 1.6 interception percentage during the year to throw 5 in one game…. You really believe that Barrett Robbins really didn’t play that big of a part in the success of that offense during the year? Seriously?

  76. earlcampbellrules says: Apr 19, 2011 3:37 PM

    Shaun King was awful, that’s why he didn’t amount to anything. It’s always easier to blame someone else than to take any responsibility for your own horrible play. You suck King, you worthless piece of donkey crap.

  77. skf727 says: Apr 19, 2011 6:32 PM

    Gruden won three straight games with Donald Hollas as his QB in 1998.

    Granted, Hollas was 31 that year but he had been out of the NFL for three years and sucked for Cincy the three years prior to that.

    So what is tougher?
    a. Developing a raw young QB with talent
    b. Winning with a washed up suck of a QB who never had much NFL-level talent

    I would have to go with B.

    Gruden’s “talent” in my opinion is his ability to install a system that showcases his QB’s given skills not necessarily developing those skills.

  78. skf727 says: Apr 19, 2011 6:57 PM

    And regarding Gruden’s SB ring…

    Full disclosure: I am a Raiders fan

    The Raiders would have destroyed any other NFC team that year. They were pretty friggin good. Losing Robbins was a gut punch of epic proportions but I believe the Raiders could have overcome it had they not been matched up against the guy who wrote their own playbook.

    Everyone blasts Callahan for not changing the terminology but let’s face it- most of these players aint the sharpest knives. I’m thinking if Callahan tries to change the terminology in the two weeks between the AFC Championship game and the SB you would have seen an illegal procedure, illegal formation, illegal motion flag on every other play.

    Gruden was very fortunate to face the Raiders but I do not believe that should diminish what the 2002 Bucs accomplished. They smoked the Niners and the Eagles (in Philly) to get there.

    So I would argue that for everyone who says that Gruden won with Dungy’s team– Gruden’s team (the Raiders) would have beaten anyone else (this includes the Bucs if Gruden wasn’t coaching them) so give the man some credit.

  79. realfootballfan says: Apr 19, 2011 9:12 PM

    helinhater,

    Do you mean “Rubber Stamp” Allen as some affectionately call him? You mean that same Bruce Allen who’s doing the same “general managing” in Washington under Mike Shanahan where he doesn’t have any say over personnel because he doesn’t have a clue about it? That same Bruce Allen? Just checking.

    Gruden has always been a horrible talent evaluator and even those drafts in Oakland which reportedly had his fingerprints all over due to his success, were horrible. Do you really think Al Davis had to have Marquez Tuiasosopo?

    Moreover, as those other stiffs that he failed to develop are brought up, who drafted the Gradkowskis, Mcowns, and Josh Johnsons, lol? Rubber Stamp sure wasn’t the one putting their board together, or he wouldn’t have been fired along with Gruden as they were a package deal when Gruden convinced him to leave the Raiders and join him in Tampa from being a long time Raider executive.

  80. lsjuniv8811 says: Apr 20, 2011 1:06 AM

    “Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms were all crappy qbs coming out of college from crappy college systems.”
    Did Jim Harbaugh’s “crappy” system hold back Andrew Luck just like it did Josh Johnson? It doesn’t seem that way to me.

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