Do you mean “Rubber Stamp” Allen as some affectionately call him? You mean that same Bruce Allen who’s doing the same “general managing” in Washington under Mike Shanahan where he doesn’t have any say over personnel because he doesn’t have a clue about it? That same Bruce Allen? Just checking.

Gruden has always been a horrible talent evaluator and even those drafts in Oakland which reportedly had his fingerprints all over due to his success, were horrible. Do you really think Al Davis had to have Marquez Tuiasosopo?

Moreover, as those other stiffs that he failed to develop are brought up, who drafted the Gradkowskis, Mcowns, and Josh Johnsons, lol? Rubber Stamp sure wasn’t the one putting their board together, or he wouldn’t have been fired along with Gruden as they were a package deal when Gruden convinced him to leave the Raiders and join him in Tampa from being a long time Raider executive.

Full disclosure: I am a Raiders fan

The Raiders would have destroyed any other NFC team that year. They were pretty friggin good. Losing Robbins was a gut punch of epic proportions but I believe the Raiders could have overcome it had they not been matched up against the guy who wrote their own playbook.

Everyone blasts Callahan for not changing the terminology but let’s face it- most of these players aint the sharpest knives. I’m thinking if Callahan tries to change the terminology in the two weeks between the AFC Championship game and the SB you would have seen an illegal procedure, illegal formation, illegal motion flag on every other play.

Gruden was very fortunate to face the Raiders but I do not believe that should diminish what the 2002 Bucs accomplished. They smoked the Niners and the Eagles (in Philly) to get there.

So I would argue that for everyone who says that Gruden won with Dungy’s team– Gruden’s team (the Raiders) would have beaten anyone else (this includes the Bucs if Gruden wasn’t coaching them) so give the man some credit.

Granted, Hollas was 31 that year but he had been out of the NFL for three years and sucked for Cincy the three years prior to that.

So what is tougher?
a. Developing a raw young QB with talent
b. Winning with a washed up suck of a QB who never had much NFL-level talent

I would have to go with B.

Gruden’s “talent” in my opinion is his ability to install a system that showcases his QB’s given skills not necessarily developing those skills.

I love Dungy for what he did for Tampa but people forget that Oakland waxed the Bucs 45-0 the year before. It was the perfect storm for the Bucs and they cashed in on it.
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Really? Losing your probowl center, the day before your biggest game.. the guy who has called all the coverages for 16 regular season games and 2 post season games…. had nothing to do with the fact of Tampa getting constant pressure up the middle and forcing a guy that had a 1.6 interception percentage during the year to throw 5 in one game…. You really believe that Barrett Robbins really didn’t play that big of a part in the success of that offense during the year? Seriously?

ctually, they didn’t have an answer for their center losing his mind and going AWOL down in Tijuana.. Thus making the veteran Gannon throw 5 picks including 3 ran back for touchdowns….

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This had nothing to do with it. Losing your center hurts but Oakland never changed their plays. Even John Lynch said during the game that it was just like practice. Gruden was the QB for their practices leading up to the Superbowl. He called all the Raider plays so they new exactly was was called on every play.

I love Dungy for what he did for Tampa but people forget that Oakland waxed the Bucs 45-0 the year before. It was the perfect storm for the Bucs and they cashed in on it.

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Actually, they didn’t have an answer for their center losing his mind and going AWOL down in Tijuana.. Thus making the veteran Gannon throw 5 picks including 3 ran back for touchdowns…. That whole fiasco goes back to Barrett Robbins and his illness…. And the fact that he wasn’t taking his medication for said illness…

Doesn’t mean that he’s unqualified to critique them though.

Jon Gruden is the 2nd most overhyped coach in the world, behind only Shannahan…. He single-handedly was responsible for losing the snowjob game… if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative… and as King says.. couldn’t develop a polaroid picture….
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Look I’m hardly a Gruden lover and it’s interesting you put him with Shanny becaue I think he’s sort of Shanny-like. Good offensive mind, as a HC not so great. That said, I think either he or Gannon or both have commented in the past that the failure to convert on that one run play was a big deal in why they lost that game.

Gruden even admitted in the Locker episode that he loves “45-46 year old QBs”.

And I think Gruden has done a good job pounding on these kids on both years he has done this show. I want a QB who absolutely RELISHES hard coaching and I think Gruden’s jabs at these kids show who can and can’t handle it a little bit. The one so far this year who has shown it the BEST appears to be Locker. I’m not sure Locker has the goods skills wise to be a great QB but I love EVERYTHING else about him (intangibles).

The GENERAL MANAGER was none other than Bruce Allen…

Bruce Allen was also the GM in Oakland.

So, if you want to critique someones inability to find decent young players, you might want to start with the guy picking the players and leading the scouts.

Because the coaching staff is busy coaching.

I swear every day, this site/country in general gets worse as more and more ignorant individuals who lack the ability to think about a topic decide to spout off their thoughts.

Because blaming the fired coach for a guy’s inability to make it in the NFL (Which stands for NOT FOR LONG) makes perfect, brilliant, sense.

Maybe Gruden is also at fault for Aqib Talib being a piece of sh*t.

He wants HIS offense, and damn your eyes if you don’t run a play to perfection and make HIS offense look less than brilliant.

Quincy Black
Geno Hayes
Barrett Ruud
Michael Bennett
Aqib Talib (maybe?)
Tanard Jackson (maybe?)

Jeremy Zuttah
Jeremy Trueblood (maybe?)
Davin Joseph
Earnest Graham

Out of 50+ selections from 2002-2008 this is the best of the best that Gruden drafted.
Horrible and embarrassing.

When did he have a prolific offense? Why is he an “offensive guru?” He is media hype.

I am grateful to him because I truly believe Dungy would not have won a super bowl here, and now the Bucs are part of the club now that they have the hardware. But it was all downhill after that. I remember the “Tampa, you aint seen nothing yet!” speech. I thought he meant that good things were to come….my bad.

And for the record, Dungy is hype too. If you have Manning for that long and you only have one ring….really? You think thats all on Manning choking? Again, once or twice, maybe, but they were doormats for a far less talented Patriots team year in and year out. And Caldwell is a big step down. If Palmer wants out because he doesnt think he can win under Marvin Lewis, Manning should realize there are teams out there that if they had him on their roster could win one, maybe two more Lombardi trophies. Thoughts????

if he had given the ball to Zac Crockett on 4th down, the “fumble” would never have happened… Way too conservative…

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You call him too conservative while suggesting he run with a slow-footed FB on 4th down? Really?

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Yes I do, when Crockett had converted 98% of the 3rd and 4th and 1′s he had faced all year long. They tried on 3rd down and failed, and that’s when “Chucky” got too conservative…. I would have played the percentages

Gruden never had a young QB to develop, who exactly was he meant to develop out of those that had coached for one year or flat out had no talent?
Young QBs Favre & McNabb came along quite nicely when he was on the staffs of the Packers and Eagles, Mark Brunell turned out ok after spending his first 2 years under a coaching staff that included Gruden. Rich Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson & Brian Griese all played well under him.

The guy can coach, it’s just a matter of the player actually having some talent to work with, more than a year to do it and not being stuck behind league MVPs and division winners.

In general Gruden was adverse to developing talent. It’s hard to tell where his bad coaching and Bruce Allen’s awful drafting come into play with it, but Jon’s a blowhard who got most of his successes handed to him and was able to not screw it up one out of the few times he had a Super Bowl caliber team.