I’ve pretty much stopped posting on PFT due to the rampant censorship but I have to commend you on your utter and thorough destruction of the pro-ownership ignoramuses (ignorami?)

Keep up the good work.

You can’t call people those names. Unless of course you are referring to an entire race and calling them drunken idiots than it is fair game.

Still a little steamed that the intern allowed that post on the boxing/pot article.

Maybe the intern is a drunken idiot. Wait! Its Mike Vanderjagt! He found a job!

No, it will. Because if it doesn’t you’ll have a 12 team league by 2020. And most of the have-not owners know this and will fight tooth and nail to keep the old agreement in place.

They just wanted a handout from the players, they liked most of the socialist, protectionist measures that the agreement provided.

Thank you! Actually … I … uh … might have said the owners should call the players and stop being stubborn … um …

It starts with a “p”–but I did replace the “i” with an amperstand! Still, it was an inappropriate thing to say … especially in all caps. So I can’t fault the censors on that one. Sometimes my passions get the best of me

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The “new school buffoons” as you put it are the ones that transformed the NFL into a $9 billion business, dragging the “old school guys who inherited everything they have” along, kicking and screaming all the way.

By the very definition of the system used under the last CBA, player salaries only rise AFTER REVENUE RISES.

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Right. Aaaand… there’s no CBA right now nor is there likely to be one in the near future. What part of that do YOU not understand? You’re hung up on the past, I’m talking about the present and future. THERE IS NO CBA. Forget talking about the old business model, it’s gone and it’s not coming back. The list of things that were but are no more is too long to list here. Player salaries WILL rise as a percentage of revenue since the better players will go to the highest bidder, and owners WILL jack up prices in order to preserve their profit margins because the market can obviously handle it. Business 101, what’s so hard for you to get?

Because revenues from tickets are a drop in the bucket.

Any discussion of owner revenues begins and ends with the TV money.

The fans are merely extras for the broadcast.

The owners are screwed because most of them would fare poorly if they had to survive on their own. They need the successful / big market franchises to drive the TV bus and share the profits. That’s why the players have always held the hammer.

Is a 3rd string CB going to buckle and start saying we need to make a deal? Sure. He needs the money and won’t fare well as a street FA.

But it is just as likely that the Jags owner will buckle when he starts to see the possibility of having a local TV deal in his small market (where his team isn’t even the most popular football team) as opposed to sharing that national deal.

Who do you think can move the needle more in his respective organization.

It’s over.

I mean, the Michigan Wolverines make more than minimum wage!

GREAT IDEA. And then another league will form and buy up all the talent. This is essentially what the USFL / CBA (v NBA) tried to do, only now they can do it because you foolishly disqualified your league from buying talent.

Nice!

So now, your league has no talent. And do you know where the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF YOUR REVENUE COMES FROM?

Television?

The minute you tell CBS / ABC / ESPN that you have replaced your 5-star and 4-star and 3-star and 2-star talent with street Free Agents (across the board), they’ll renegotiate that contract down to pennies.

And forget about the NFL specials like the draft, since no one of note will be there / selected.

And forget about NFL Network. And merchandising, since no one will pay $60 for a Mike Kafka jersey (not that he’d play for minimum wage).

And then you won’t be able to pay for your operating costs. And then your teams will start to fold, and then the league will be done in 2 years.

Yeah, you have a GREAT idea!

How can you be so clueless?

i
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nflfan101 says: Apr 25, 2011 9:58 PM

danspeakmanpe says: Apr 25, 2011 8:38 PM

Shouldn’t free agency start now?

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What free agency?

Applying the law that the judge used, there cannot be any employment rules imposed on all teams by the NFL. Every player is free to deal with whatever team the player wants to deal with. And teams can pay as much or as little as they want and hire as many or as few players as they want. There cannot be free agency or a draft.

That is, unless the judge isn’t really applying the law, but merely supporting the players’ union.
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Sorry, but you’re wrong on multiple points. First of all, this draft was accounted for in the outgoing cba. It’s the last vestige of the last cba in fact. Secondly, almost two-thirds of the players in the NFL are still under contract. Those individual contracts are still in effect, even if the cba no longer is. Furthermore, if there really were no rules, then all of the available free agents (both UFAs and players who would have been RFAs) would be free to sign with whatever team they want. That’s the definition of free agency. So, it’s not that FA would no longer exist, but that it would be expanded even further. Finally, if the lifting of the lockout is upheld, there will be some rules. The courts have already stated that some rules are necessary for the league to function. The most likely action will be for temporary rules closely resembling the last agreed upon set of rules to be put in place while both sides try to come to negotiate a more long term deal. That’s what all this is about anyway, leverage in negotiating the eventual deal.

I’m not sure how this can work. And seriously, I don’t think it can. What might be best for the 32 teams, considering that anti-trust violations carry treble damages, is for the 32 teams to suspend operations indefinetly and have their representatives try and work out some sort of rules of business and operations with the U.S. Justince department and the NLRB on how it is they can operate given anti-trust laws. Otherwise, the 32 teams will pay the players billions of dollars this year at the same time they’re being sued for billions more and potentially hundreds of players and their agent/lawyers lining up to collect hundreds of millions of dollars more.

Because you see, the league has something called a salary cap- and it will in the new CBA too.

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There can be no CBA without a union. The NFLPA has already decertified twice, can they certify for a third time? Even if they can certify again the owners will simply lock them out again.

I don’t see any way the league can legally have a salary cap in the future. It’s now Major League Football.

Great … we wait two hours for comments to post and mine is censored. Thanks.
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Clear your cache and refresh. The site gets wonky when there are a lot of comments. If you really did get censored that would be sad – your comments are great even when I disagree with you (most of the time).

Player salaries ate up about 60% of total revenue under the CBA. I’d say that player salaries go a long way toward determining what the average NFL fan pays for a game. Yeah owners will raise and have raised prices in times of labor peace anyway because they want to keep up their profit margins and expand them when they can, but rising player salaries are going to have a much bigger effect than all other factors combined, even when you add inflation.

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OMG- You still don’t understand. Despite all of the efforts to explain it to you, you still don’t understand.

By the very definition of the system used under the last CBA, player salaries only rise AFTER REVENUE RISES.

That means the process works like this: Owners raise ticket prices, revenue goes up, then and only then, player salaries go up.

Because you see, the league has something called a salary cap- and it will in the new CBA too.

Player salaries, on average, only go up when the salary cap goes up.

And the salary cap only goes up WHEN REVENUES GO UP.

And that happens when owners do things like, oh I don’t know, RAISE TICKET PRICES.

Wow. It really can’t be that hard to understand, can it?

How can you deny the fact that when an owners expenses icrease, then the prices increase as well???

Yes supply and demand do have a role in ticket prices, but that doesn’t explain why overall attendance in the NFL is down for the 4th year in a row, yet 65% of teams still increased their ticket prices last year! They need to increase the prices to pay for ALL of their expenses… the biggest one being PLAYER SALARIES.

If you owned a business and you were forced to keep less of your overall revenue, the way you make up for it is increasing prices. That is in essence why a win for the players equals a loss for the fans.

Call the players. Sign a new agreement. Return to business as usual. End this nonsense.

Also if you fire the players I’m fairly certain another league will spring up to collect that wealth of highly talented NFL talent that’s already been marketed and form a formable league to challenge the NFL. What league wouldn’t want a Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, etc? The XFL was a failure but would it be a failure with the top football players on the planet? And who would the NFL offer up to counter that? As much as you guys think the players don’t matter they do. If they didn’t nobody would be offering endorsement contracts to the players to sale products to the public….If it is all about the team fans wouldn’t care that they get a Peyton Manning Jersey just as long as it’s a Colts Jersey……we all know that’s horse sh*t.

- Got lit up by De Smith in talks…check

- Got lit up in court…check

- Got lit up court of public opinion when fans finally realize that this isn’t a strike…check as of tomorrow evening

Goodell should be replaced with that guy who oversaw the Katrina response. It would be an upgrade.

If the lockout is over, what rules are in effect? The last CBA?

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Not anymore.

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Player salaries ate up about 60% of total revenue under the CBA. I’d say that player salaries go a long way toward determining what the average NFL fan pays for a game. Yeah owners will raise and have raised prices in times of labor peace anyway because they want to keep up their profit margins and expand them when they can, but rising player salaries are going to have a much bigger effect than all other factors combined, even when you add inflation.

1) Eliminate any rules that violate anti-trust laws: salary cap, draft, free agency restictions, etc.

2) Rename the league to Major League Football so the fans will be ready to see a lot of failed franchises.

3) Make it loud and clear that the minimum wage is now $7.50 an hour rather than $400,000 per year.

4) Delete all benefits negotiated in the past CBAs. Each team decides it’s own health, pension and insurance benefits during negotiations with one-man unions.

The league needs to make it obvious that the result of this litigation will be that 5% of the players get 95% of the money. If the players recertify and strike let them. The frantic reaction to the lockout proves that the players can’t survive long without a paycheck.

Went to a scab game back in 1987. Prices remained the same. And prices will not go down if the players make less. To think so is to ignore reality and history.

Prices will remain the same / go up every year no matter what the expenses / costs are. Why?

You have 70,000 seats, a 10 year waiting list for tix in many cities. Supply and demand dictates higher pricing.

You have a captive audience, many of whom equate the NFL with getting falling down drunk. Capitalism encourages higher pricing. Rationing how much people can consumer on gameday argues for higher pricing.

You can pay more to park close to the stadium, you choose to park farther out to save money (so you can buy more $8.50 Coors Lights). That’s called exercising a choice as a consumer.

I love the conservatives. Now they want socialism and activist judges. Screw capitalism that allows for higher pricing! Screw the law, we didn’t get what we want.

If you can’t afford the NFL game, give up your ticket. WE HAVE A 10 YEAR WAITING LIST IN PHILLY!

You don’t have a ‘right’ to cheap tickets or cheap gas. Pay the money or get out of the line.

Seems Republican/Democrat has little to do with how the courts are ruling with NFL matters. The owners are getting spanked no matter what they try to do and no matter who the judge is.

Maybe they need to re-evaluate their legal strategy.