What an incredible waste of time that was.

I’ll just leave it with some age old advice, to anyone who may stumble here:

Read more.

Know your history and you’ll understand the present and take part in the future.

Hm. Convenient choices you’ve made, young sir. But I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that you saw Alex Jones’s name, glanced through the argument, and made a snapshot judgment.

My reasons for bringing up Alex Jones are made quite clear, you’ll go back and tell me what you think if you’re worth your salt, otherwise your dismissal comes off weak.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything, only trying to encourage an open discussion. But if you’d rather pack this one in (as I suspect), that’s your call, and I really don’t care.

And suggesting/implying that he has CIA connections?

Not even worth continuing the discussion. Because obviously profit = conspiracy. Ugh.

Good luck with all that.

btw all you guys threatening physical violence on Mendenhall know you couldn’t do it to him in person.

What, 10 mil. and they spent nearly 50 mil on Bill Clinton’s impeachment. I completely concur osmocosmo….

That is as sad as the joke that that fraud “Bin Laden Dead” hoax was…almost as good as the Swine Flu hoax as well.

Back to the drawing board. – Bin Laden was a scapegoat fraud, and a creation of Zbigniew Brzezinski and the CIA. Then they kept changing the story on the assault, then buried the body at Sea, then these idiots chant “USA USA USA” like its some g%&damn football game.

pathetic.

First, I want to clarify that the somewhat hostile tone in my post certainly isn’t directed towards folks like yourself, who take the time to think for themselves. (I’ll quickly add that if this were an actual discussion and not a post on a football message board, I’d have never allowed myself to use divisive language.)

Second, the idea that a missile hit the Pentagon is laughable, I agree. If you’ll allow me to get off topic a bit, I’d like to point to something –

Alex Jones. And the reason I say “something” and not “someone” is because I want you to consider the man largely responsible for all the awful theories that are out there, and tell me what you think. Loose Change is a big part of this, as are a few other “bad researchers,” (to put it mildly) but take a moment to consider this man, this moron, Alex Jones.

He’s huge — Keep that in mind. An enormous amount of followers, particularly on the internet. What is he? Divisive, arrogant, rude, and worst of all, a peddler of inaccurate information. He almost single-handedly took the “Truth movement” and made it a hyperbolic, bullhorn-shouting, laughing stock. (He still promotes Loose Change editions, alongside his own “work”.)

It’d be easy to sit here and say: Well, Alex Jones found a niche. He’s seizing opportunities to make money. But I’m here to say it’s not that simple — You have to look at his guests (at times, impressive). You have to look at his illogical inconsistencies. You have to take this whole situation in, going back to when he spouted off about Y2k, nearly causing a panic in Texas.

Google: Operation Mockingbird. Keep in mind that I’m not saying this a black-and-white issue and that Alex Jones is an operative or any such nonsense. I don’t know. I can’t know. But what I do know is that Alex Jones, and a few others like him, are NOT simply out there making money. For the sake of my discussion, Operation Mockingbird is merely a concept, and all I’m asking you to do is consider what multi-billion dollar interests might do if they felt that they could misdirect a potentially harmful movement. Keep in mind that infiltration has precedence, to say the least.

Google: Alex Jones disrupts. You can find video of what Jones has done during peaceful protests that he supposedly supports.

Now, remember, I’m not saying Jones is counter intelligence — in fact, not only do I not know that, I don’t care.

The reason I bring this up: You have to understand the layers involved regarding the treatment of 9/11 information. You have to acknowledge that there are bigger issues at play here, and they do not necessarily have to be connected.

Quick point: over 90% of our media is in the hands of 6 corporations, all of which, either directly or indirectly, benefit from war. This isn’t meant to steer you in any direction, it is simply a fact that cannot be denied, and a fact that has inevitably led to the vast distortion of information regarding war, regarding big money, regarding anything that represents a conflict of interest, going all the way back to when media was media.

Ok. Third. I asked you to look into the unanswered questions. You’re citing the 9/11 Commission, and whether or not that information is accurate is irrelevant to what I’m asking you to do.

So. Go no further than the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. First, look into how the 9/11 Commission was formed, and how it operated. Keep in mind that the executive director was Philip Zelikow. Look him up. He was the man in charge of what the Commission members could look at. In other words, he ran the show. Also keep in mind that several Commission members have since said the hearings were a sham, but most importantly, look into the Family Steering Committee, and what they have to say. If for noting else, because they deserve it.

The Family Steering Committee (along with, though to a lesser extent, the Coalition for an Independent Commission) was responsible for the 9/11 investigation. We wouldn’t have even had an investigation (at that time, at least) had it not been for the pressure they put on representatives. Their unanswered questions regarding the flights are quite relevant. Check them out. (I hate to promote a film, but there was a movie made about them, mainly the Jersey Girls. It’s a tad dramatic for my taste, but compared to Loose Change, it’s your mild uncle calling a baseball game. The film is 9/11: Press For Truth, and should be available for free on Google video.)

Fourth, I’m not suggesting that certain people in our government decided to ignore the attacks within an hour. I’m suggesting that certain people, in various positions, due to the natural consequences of concentrated power, either knowingly or unknowingly, acted in such a way that led to an event that has been used to increase wealth for the wealthy. (Quick note: Google the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. It’s a far cry from 9/11, but is relevant nonetheless, and establishes precedence for this country. We can go throughout history and see that it is not outrageous to consider the idea that powerful interests would attack their own “country” if it increases their flow of power. In fact, it is laughable to suggest it wouldn’t happen whenever the opportunity presents itself.)

Quick note: I put country in quotes because there is something else you need to understand. We’re not dealing with countries anymore. This response has already gotten way too long, but I’ll just say this: Think about what a country *is* these days. I mean really think about it. The answer: There are no longer countries, in any tangible sense that relates to the structure of power, at least. It has become way too complex, and has been for many decades now.

I’ll end with this. You mention that Bill Clinton couldn’t hide his Oval Office hummer. First, that’s hilarious. As somebody who enjoys reading and writing, that’s fun. Second, I want you to consider this fact: The United States of America spent over 100 million dollars investigating that hummer.

Now look up how much we spent on 9/11, an event that represents the largest loss of life from a foreign attack in our short history.

How I feel about that figure is sadder than I can put into words.

Why do some people believe the 1st Amendment guarantees protection from ridicule along with freedom of speech?

It’s shameful really but no one is capable of masterminding the attacks of 9/11 AND keeping it a secret. It simply couldn’t happen. Bill Clinton couldn’t even hide an Oval Office hummer for goodness sake.

Thank you for at least acknowledging that it was a plane that hit the Pentagon and not a missile.

I think you should study the actual time line of events on 9/11 before suggesting that it was allowed to happen.

1) At the time the U.S. had no policy to scramble jets when contact was lost with flights having domestic origin. It happened one time in history and it took 76 minutes to scramble and intercept (Oct 1999 and it turned out to be Payne Stewart’s private plane). Anyone who suggests our policy was otherwise is uninformed on the issue.

2) Flight 11 (WTC1) was hijacked at 8:19 and NORAD was not informed until 8:34am. Jets were scrambled at 8:46am and launched at 8:52am not knowing that Flight 11 had already hit WTC1. This was the same time that Flight 77 was believed to be hijacked and radar contact was lost for 36 minutes.

3) 9:03 am lacking an intercept vector the F-15s were sent to New York, as that was where the still unconfirmed attack happened.

4) 9:03am Flight 175 hits WTC2. NORAD was notified about Flight 175 at the same time.

5) 9:24am NORAD was notified about Flight 77.

6) 9:32am Flight 77 picked up on RADAR

7) 9:33am Secret Service informed that Flight 77 was headed towards D.C. (remember all scrambled planes are still in New York as that was where the, now confirmed, attack was happening).

8) 9:37am Flight 77 hits the Pentagon. Essentially allowing our air defense five minutes to scramble, take off and intercept Flight 77.

Now you can view this as an elaborate and flawlessly executed inside job. Or believe that within 1 hour 18 minutes the Government determined that this was a great money making opportunity and allowed it to happen. That is your prerogative.

However the law of parsimony (Occam’s Razor) teach us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In this case the simplest explanation is that we got caught with out pants down and kicked in the balls.

Choosing to believe the most logical theory, the one supported by the most hard evidence, is not an indication of blind support for the Government. It is an indication that we have applied critical thinking skills to a difficult situation and have not allowed ourselves to be swayed by blind mistrust of all things Government.

Point #4- point taken. However, douchery jabs are the norm around here.

Point #3- you cannot argue that the US Armed forces are not engaging in action beyond our borders, which is the main purpose of our military.

The Muslim world really does not want us there, so let’s not be there. It costs too much.

What can easily be deduced, however, by anyone willing to let go of their imaginary importance, is that 9/11 was allowed to happen.

Think about something for a minute.

The Pentagon was hit by a commercial airplane. Think about that.

The most awesomely guarded fortress in the history of man. Hit by a commercial airplane.

The Pentagon was hit by a commercial airplane, an airplane flying severely off course for nearly an hour.

Those of you flexing your imaginary muscles, picking on folks who are out of their league but at least have balls – unlike yourselves – please, for a moment, really look at that fact. Then look at the questions that didn’t get answered in the 9/11 Commission regarding the flights.

Next: Think about what 9/11 has been used for. I mean really go back to start. Do not pass Go. Look at everything from then, till right now. It’s a long, long list. It makes rich people lots of $$. It has for a long, long time.

I know it’s warm and cozy there. Sitting with your half-hearted ideals, warming your dumb feet next to the fire. Pretending that it would be outrageous to even consider that the rich would do whatever they can to get richer. I know. I know.

But don’t worry. You’re not alone.

Help me out here. I really want to know.

And what in the world do you mean by “free fall speeds”? It’s called gravity.

How exactly do you expect a building to fall under that circumstance?

And WTC7 was hit with a massive amount of debris during the collapse of WTC1. There is indisputable video confirmation of this fact. Multiple firemen on the ground said that on the bottom 10 floors about 25% of the structure had been carved out from the collapse of WTC1.

Provide more evidence than 100% completely dis-proven claims from the creators of Loose Change.

The problem is this bizarre denial of the facts surrounding 9/11. There is a world of absolutely undeniable scientifically verified forensic evidence that was not compiled by the government. This evidence absolutely and unequivocally refutes any and every conspiracy theory.

This is not subject for debate. The evidence is out there and very easy to find. Some people quote 1,400 as doubting the collapse but they ignore that 120,000 engineers disagree with those 1400.

It is absolutely insane to ignore the hard scientific data in favor of unsubstantiated and 100% disproven conspiracy theories.

I mean all conspiracy theorists tell us to not be brainwashed and to do our own research but when we do and provide hard proof you simply ignore it and offer absolutely no evidence to support your claims. Instead we get half measures and accusations.

Provide one shred of hard scientific evidence to support your claim. Just one.

If so please do a little research into the creators of that series. Among them are a guy who after being twice rejected for college admitted to 1) that he started the project as a fictional movie project & 2) never reading the 9/11 commission report. Another is a deserter from the U.S. military who has also been arrested for dealing heroin.

Every single contention made in that series, every single one, has been thoroughly and rationally debunked with well documented forensic evidence.

I think some of you do your research in Fantasyland.

For the record: Bin Laden admitted to 9/11 in October of 2004. Why is it so shocking that he would initially deny it? “I wasn’t me” isn’t just a catchy tune by Shaggy, it is a common refrain from criminals.

For the record: WTC7 was hit with a s###-ton of debris when WTC1 collapsed and there ample video evidence to show it.

For the record: Silverstein saying “Let’s pull it” has nothing to do with demolition. “Pull it” is not a demolition industry term. He said it in reference to getting the firemen who were trying to fight the fire out of the scene because it was clear that it was a losing effort and the building might come down. After seeing WTC1 & WTC2 go down that was a very reasonable concern.

But people love a good conspiracy too much to listen to reasonable explanations.

The conspiracy people should do some research themselves and they should start with Occam’s Razor

ROFL … oh hush

You forgot about your auburn hair, green eyes, and spitfire personality to match.

No offense taken. Have posted on many disjointed subjects, which taken separately may seem unlikely–but that doesn’t mean they’re untrue.

My degree is in journalism, and I’m a journeyman, so I’ve had varied experiences. I’ve reported on state government and worked in a rehab center to earn extra money. Then I moved overseas to one of the world’s hot spots where I was able to get close to paramilitaries and their families, living several years with them in ghetto projects. It was an adventure … and a dangerous and difficult life. That’s where I was assaulted and learned so much about uneven justice, and why I post passionately on poverty issues. And it’s how I knew men who eluded armies.

After leaving there, I did a 180 and went into corporate communications. I’d always had health issues, and the other life had taken a toll. I wound up battling cancer three times and having many surgeries. When I returned to freelancing, those experiences led me to write books for healthcare organizations, and on legal and management topics. It helped that my brother & sis-in-law are criminal defense attorneys. And I’ve volunteered with poverty, assault, and trauma organizations.

Through all these situations, I’ve developed contacts who’ve been kind enough to share their wisdom. And I didn’t say I’d interviewed 9/11 families–said I’d talked with people who worked the WTC cleanup site. Many of my friends are emergency service workers whose units have been called to work disasters such as Katrina and who volunteered to go to New York. By chance a close friend worked Roethlisberger’s case in Milledgeville, not far-fetched since my brother went to law school just a couple of hours from there. By chance my family lives in Tuscaloosa so I’m hearing more detailed stories of the storm aftermath than are on the news. All that is just the Kevin Bacon game in action.

As with many things that seem hard to believe, they make sense on further examination. Please bear that in mind–and apply logic–as you review the info on 9/11.

I don’t really want to know what your job is, but it must be incredible to do the things you have done. You have known men who eluded armies? Talked to 9/11 victims families? why would you do both? I can’t think of a job where you’d do both, so you must have quite the life! congrats……I smell a well educated liar though. in my opinion respectfully.

it is his opinion, i have no objection to him voicing it. i know poeple that would agree with him on both statements and that does not in of itself make them bad people.
by no means did i feel it appropriate for myself to celebrate the death of another person even though i agree that he was an enemy to our country.

MLK felt similarly

“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only Love can do that.”
–Martin Luther King, Jr

I say: sorry jeb if this has already been pointed out to you, but MLK did not actually say the precise quote “I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in he death of one, not even an enemy.” The rest of your quote is apparantly valid from MLK. Someone on Facebook innocently enough made the “not rejoice” quote themselves, then used the real MLK quote after that, with quotes to distinguish. Somewhere along the line, either negligently or maliciously, the quotes got dropped and/or the non-MLK quote was merged with the actual MLK quote.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/anatomy-of-a-fake-quotation/238257/

A dissenting opinion is an abuse of freedom of speech? That sounds like an oxymoron. Your brother may have had noble intentions & been a very good man, much like my grandfather, but I disagree with the strategy of paying for a standing army to support an imperialist empire. Empires always fail…or so says world history.

I don’t require a mother to support me, although I do work in my basement.

I choose to pick up the phone and serve my country in the marketplace. I serve this country by helping organizations that help sustain society with valuable services that provide commodities which you and I consume every day. Some of these companies are on the brink of disaster in terms of profitability. A rifle would not help me serve my country in this manner. I choose handshakes over fist-fights. Voluntary contracts vs. edicts.

I serve my country.

God bless you.

@ anarchopurplism
Please don’t compare yourself to a pot-smoker. It’s insulting to them.
******************************************

That was actually funny. Good insult. I thumbs up’d you.

-anarchopurplism

Ha ha. Just call me a name. Good argument.

Thank you for expressing your intelligence.

-anarchopurplism

Site owners make the rules on their own sites. And everyone needs to bear in mind that this is a football site.

This thread should be beyond dead.

@TxGrown – Useful, thx.