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Toronto eyeballs two teams for possible relocation

Miami Dolphins v Buffalo Bills Getty Images

Toronto has gotten a taste of the NFL over the past few years, hosting at least one Bills game annually.  And it has made the powers-that-be hungry for more.

Councillor Doug Ford, the brother of Toronto mayor Rob Ford (wait, I thought their last name was McKenzie), tells Brad Gagnon of TheScore.com that Canada’s mega-city intends to try to lure an NFL team after the league puts a team back in Los Angeles.

“They have to take care of the problem in Los Angeles first,” Ford said.  “Two teams are kind of in play here:  Jacksonville’s number one; New Orleans is the other.  So there’s two teams.  Once they take care of Los Angeles, we’re going to fly over to New York, set up a meeting with [NFL commissioner Roger] Goodell and give him our pitch.”

As Gagnon points out, Goodell has said that Toronto would need a better venue than Rogers Centre.  “Their current stadium is a multi-purpose stadium, has a relatively small capacity by NFL standards,” Goodell said at his pre-Super Bowl press conference in February.  “And so I think there’s some issues that have to be addressed up there, but it’s a great market.”  But Doug McKenzie Ford has explained that a new waterfront stadium could be built.

Apart from the borderline ridiculous notion that the Saints would be in play to relocate (then again, things were tenuous at best for the franchise’s future in New Orleans before Katrina), the fact that the Bills aren’t on the short list is surprising.

“If we had our own team,” Ford said, “we’d treat it like it’s our own and build up a fan base.”

Of course, this implies that a full and complete move by the Bills, instead of a shared arrangement with Buffalo, would be welcomed.  It’s safe to say, however, that the folks in Toronto don’t want to be perceived as politicking to pilfer the Bills from Buffalo.  That said, the ultimate unspoken goal could be to pressure the Bills to protect their regionalized turf by moving to Toronto in order to keep another NFL team from moving in next door.

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107 Responses to “Toronto eyeballs two teams for possible relocation”
  1. baronvonmonocle says: May 5, 2011 7:31 AM

    I want an NFL team here in Toronto but not if it means the Bills leave Buffalo. We’ll still need them there so we’ll have a place to tailgate since the puritans who run everything here will never allow that.

  2. EJ says: May 5, 2011 7:35 AM

    It will never happen, Buffalo will never relocate. The Bills have one of the strongest and loyal fan base’s in the NFL today.

    Our Great Northern Friends should focus on Jacksonville, because we are out of the conversation for relocation.

  3. thelonious says: May 5, 2011 7:39 AM

    Oh, I see. You’re going to talk to the commissioner and tell him you want the Jaguars to move to Toronto?

    Over my dead body.

  4. beatnik25 says: May 5, 2011 7:41 AM

    The Toronto RooundABOATS

    Couldn’t resist myself.

  5. MichaelEdits says: May 5, 2011 7:41 AM

    They don’t want the Bills. They want a professional football team.

  6. franktherat96 says: May 5, 2011 7:43 AM

    Wow..I have heard it all now. Jacksonville I can understand. They are having problems selling tickets, etc. But New Orleans…really….New Orleans before the Vikings and Bills. Child Please! The people in Toronto need to stop eating the yellow snow. Its affecting hem mentally.

  7. franktherat96 says: May 5, 2011 7:45 AM

    To add one more thing, yes, things were tenuous before Katrina. Since we have sold out the dome every year. We have a waiting list of over 60,000 people for season tickets and they have signed a recently updated lease. The Saints aren’t going anywhere!

  8. zappa69 says: May 5, 2011 7:46 AM

    “Who Dat!!!!!”

  9. skoobyfl says: May 5, 2011 7:49 AM

    If the Giants / Jets can share a stadium, why can’t the Toronto folks share Buffalo as their team. They’re in the Niagara Region as a whole & cannot see why they couldn’t, drive over to Orchard Park for the games.

  10. gypjet says: May 5, 2011 7:53 AM

    Uh, no thanks Canada.

  11. frojo112963 says: May 5, 2011 7:55 AM

    Hello?…..The Saints signed a new lease just 2 years ago that keeps them in Louisiana until 2025. What are these guys smoking north of the border? No way in hell that they move to Toronto!

  12. marshb13 says: May 5, 2011 7:59 AM

    That bull! Leave us alone in the jville! No blackouts in jville last yr. Get your own expansion team!!

  13. emperor83 says: May 5, 2011 7:59 AM

    They already know the Bills would never agree to it…

  14. redbear18 says: May 5, 2011 8:01 AM

    Doug Mckenzie, lol. Great White North FTW! Also, no way the Saints are leaving New Orleans.

  15. kd75 says: May 5, 2011 8:02 AM

    What a Hoser, Eh?

  16. realitypolice says: May 5, 2011 8:03 AM

    Maybe they don’t want the Bills BECAUSE they’ve seen them play there the last two years.

  17. diamonddave13 says: May 5, 2011 8:05 AM

    I love how Mike used a movie reference from 1983 not once, but twice. Half your audience either wasnt alive or have never enjoyed the greatness that was Bob & Doug.

    Also, the NFL will be in Canada by 2015. Global expansion, bitches!

  18. catman72 says: May 5, 2011 8:08 AM

    Jacksonville, maybe… but I doubt the NFL would allow the Saints to move at this point and I think the Jags will end up in L.A.

    Would make perfect sense to move the Bills.

  19. Burritto says: May 5, 2011 8:17 AM

    Before I had ever been to New Orleans, I thought the team should relocate because I had images of fans wearing paper bags in my head. Now that I’ve been there several times… no way. The city is practically colored black & gold.

    Even if what frojo112963 says wasn’t true (which it is), there’s just no way it happens. There hasn’t been an empty seat in the Superdome since the team came back from San Antonio.

  20. kyleortonsarm says: May 5, 2011 8:27 AM

    I’d say you should take the Steelers but I also remembered that Canadian law forbids anyone with a felony record to cross the border so you might have trouble getting the core of the team into the country. At the very least maybe you’d be better fans who will let the owners know that you can put your foot down when it comes to having complete scum on the team. Pittsburgh Steeler fans would root for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad if they thought he’d help them get to a title. The entire system is poisoned.

  21. sabeybaby says: May 5, 2011 8:30 AM

    This is perfect. The Vikings belong in Canada. They would be great together. The only thing better would be the Vikings in the CFL.

  22. myeaglescantwin says: May 5, 2011 8:34 AM

    DUMBEST MOVE EVER…

    aren’t all their international athletic organizations floundering cause canadians really dont care??

    could you imagine getting drafted by Toronto. & would they pay in loonies or dollars?

  23. dolphindad says: May 5, 2011 8:38 AM

    hahaha even Toronto doesn’t want the Bills. they would rather have the jags or saints.

  24. santolonius says: May 5, 2011 8:39 AM

    toronto, how about working hard and making the canadian football league as great as the nfl instead of trying to crush the spirits of an american city with your pilfering. hey you have a head start too… the nfl is busy taking ten steps backward on the greatness map with this idiotic lockout. seize your moment.

  25. frostbelt says: May 5, 2011 8:39 AM

    The Buffalo Bills will never leave Buffalo… if so… it would be a tragedy. That city lives and dies by its sports.

  26. awdlmd says: May 5, 2011 8:42 AM

    The Bills and Saints have two of the most loyal fanbases in the league (more so than the franchises deserve really). Moving either of them would be an insult to all NFL fans. Jacksonville should just be contracted (along with Carolina while they’re at it).

  27. gobills716 says: May 5, 2011 8:49 AM

    The league would only approve a relocation to toronto if it was the Bills and that will never happen. The Toronto market has proven it is not a viable NFL market, so why would this guy think the Niagara Region (Toronto and Buffalo) could support two NFL franchises? The two cities are only 90 miles apart. If the NHL won’t put a team in Hamilton because of territorial issues does this guy really think the NFL would put 2 teams in the region? Buffalo is the only football market in the region. The Canucks couldn’t support a NFL team, they only come to the games for the party. Toronto is a hockey town, not a football town, not a baseball town, not a basketball town.

  28. rboyett says: May 5, 2011 8:51 AM

    You worthless Canadian sacks of crap. You sold your soul to the Brits while your Arcadian brethren keep their loyalty and die migrating to New Orleans.

    I’m not particularly worried. A dead chicken in a nest of gators has a better chance of surviving than you pulling that off. I’m just pissed by the fact that you dare utter our teams name in such a manner.

    Worthless turncoats.

  29. friendlylittletrees says: May 5, 2011 8:51 AM

    Minnesota to Canada

    Jacksonville to Los Angeles

    Makes sense to me.

  30. bukes111 says: May 5, 2011 8:52 AM

    I’m rooting for a New Orleans recovewry so I hope San Diego moves to LA and Jax moves up north. Win win.

  31. scra22 says: May 5, 2011 8:52 AM

    Is this guy still living in 2005? Because it would have made sense in 2005 to think you have a shot at getting the Saints to move. It makes absolutely zero sense now.

    1) The Saints have a deal with the state that will keep them in New Orleans until at least 2025.

    2) The Saints have sold out every season for the past 5 years, and have a very long waiting list. So why exactly would they leave?

    3) One of the complaints from Benson was about the stadium, so the Superdome has undergone extensive renovations inside (still currently being worked on) and outside.

    Toronto needs to do a little better homework before they just fly on over to New York to give their pitch to Goodell.

  32. zoxitic says: May 5, 2011 9:03 AM

    The Jags arent going anywhere. The owner loves Jacksonville.

  33. dudebrosday says: May 5, 2011 9:09 AM

    Ah. Haha. Everybody thinking the Jags will be leaving Jacksonville any time soon are most definitely wrong. The Weavers are committed to keeping the team here, just like the fans are (finally) getting into it, too. Every home game sold out last year.

    So it will be awhile before Toronto gets a team if they only want these two. Why not go for an expansion team?

  34. myeaglescantwin says: May 5, 2011 9:11 AM

    please.. take the Jets and Giants .

    get these pillow biters out of my state .. & take all their V-neck wearing, fake tanned, tribal tatted, gelled up, fake gold chain havin, daddys money TOOL fans with you.

  35. marshb13 says: May 5, 2011 9:15 AM

    Jacksonville is always the easy target. oakland to.l a and no one to canada

  36. ribsribs says: May 5, 2011 9:15 AM

    Don’t worry, Rob and Doug Ford are idiots and say these things even though they have no idea if they can actually be done. TO has the worst sports fans and would never treat an NFL team like they should. This Canuck says keep American football in America! I’ll travel.

  37. jimmysee says: May 5, 2011 9:16 AM

    Toronto and Buffalo could share the Bills. The Packers used to play half their home schedule in Milwaukee.

  38. nbaraie says: May 5, 2011 9:17 AM

    NFL couldn’t survive in Canada. Canada has a strict policy of not allowing felons in to their country.

  39. broncobourque says: May 5, 2011 9:20 AM

    The Fords are an embarassment to Canada, I have no idea how either one of them go elected. That being said, the Jaguars, Bills (when Ralph Wilson passes away) or Vikings (if they don’t get a new stadium) could easily be targets for relocation to Toronto. Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America so it is only a matter of time before they have a team. Logic would say that it will be the Bills that move since they have an outdated stadium, are one of the smallest cities in the league and most importantly, have an owner in his 90s whose family has no interest in owning the team when he passes away.

  40. jhe0325 says: May 5, 2011 9:22 AM

    To Buffalo Fan Base
    Remember ART MODELL

  41. shackdelrio says: May 5, 2011 9:22 AM

    “friendlylittletrees says:
    May 5, 2011 8:51 AM
    Minnesota to Canada

    Jacksonville to Los Angeles

    Makes sense to me.”

    Makes sense if you ignore the fact that the Raiders and Chargers both play in dumps and have just as many issues with blackouts as the Jaguars do. Why would the NFL wants three AFC teams with attendance issues in California?

  42. mypuppyfarted says: May 5, 2011 9:26 AM

    Don’t worry fans, none of this crap is ever going to happen. There’s no way the Toronto retards will ever build another stadium, there’s no way L.A. gets a team because they’re so pathetic they couldn’t keep either of the teams they already had, and, finally there’s no way NFL owners would agree to this. Toronto can keep their lame excuse for football and the NFL can keep real football.

  43. baronvonmonocle says: May 5, 2011 9:33 AM

    gobills716 says:
    May 5, 2011 8:49 AM
    “The Toronto market has proven it is not a viable NFL market”

    Actually, the fact that they got anyone at all to come see the Bills with an average ticket price of $200 would seem to indicate otherwise.

  44. fground says: May 5, 2011 9:33 AM

    “Councillor Doug Ford, the brother of Toronto mayor Rob Ford (wait, I thought their last name was McKenzie)”

    I live in the Greater Toronto Area – the McKenzie brothers would be considerably smarter than the Ford brothers.

  45. waldoampere says: May 5, 2011 9:35 AM

    How about moving the Patriots to Hades since the Tuck Rule was probably written by the Devil.

  46. tmac48 says: May 5, 2011 9:42 AM

    “friendlylittletrees says:
    May 5, 2011 8:51 AM
    Minnesota to Canada

    Jacksonville to Los Angeles

    Makes sense to me.”

    It makes sense Geographically at least…
    Jacksonville stays in the South and the AFC South.
    Minnesota stays in the the North and the NFC North.

  47. tjrubleysaudible says: May 5, 2011 9:43 AM

    “There wasn’t much to do. All the bowling alleys had been wrecked. So’s I spent most of my time looking for beer. ” And desperate NFL teams, apparently.

  48. nationalmediacansuckit says: May 5, 2011 9:46 AM

    I really love how all you people love writing the same “Jags to L.A.” and “Jag are moving” comments and know nothing about the Jax or Jaguars just like this website doesn’t. The Jaguars aren’t going anywhere. Just b/c this website writes something over and over doesn’t make it true. Jacksonville had one bad 2009 season. Then 2010 season ZERO blackouts.

    But you know who did have blackouts. Tampa and Oakland every single game blacked out, Detroit, Cincy, Arizona, Carolina, Kansas City San Diego, Buffalo, Miami getting extensions to avoid blackouts. Where’s all the “(fill in team) needs to move”. But Jaguars are horrible fans, right?

    In 2009 people were losing jobs left and right in Jax. 17K people cancelled their season tickets b/c of the economy and job lose. Have you ever heard of 17K cancelling season tickets in one off season? Of course not. The economy is slowing coming back and the Jaguars fans are too. You cats really need to read more than this website and their Jacksonville hatred agenda for your NFL info.

  49. johnnybuc44 says: May 5, 2011 9:47 AM

    I am Canadian, and I can tell you that although the corporate support would be there, the people of Toronto will NOT support an NFL franchise on a long term basis. They haven’t sold out any of the 3 regular season games played there, having sold only 52,134 seats in 2008, 51,567 in 2009, and 50,746 in 2010. And that’s with some “creative marketing” in the form of discounted tickets paired up with tickets for other events. Canada is hockey country, and an NFL team would play “second fiddle” to the Toronto Maple Leafs. That’s just the way it is, and I don’t think the NFL wants to (or should) take a back seat to anybody.

  50. jpmelon says: May 5, 2011 9:48 AM

    If the Bills stay in Buffalo and Toronto gets a different team permanently it will split the NFL fans in Canada between the two.

    I’m pretty accurate when I speculate that about 1/3 of the Bills audience is from Canada. If this is allowed to happen it will harm Buffalo.

    I’d like to keep the NFL in America alone. The Canadians are more than welcome at the Ralph, and they love to come down to watch the games…..Canadians make more money than the average American, so it’s cheap to them. It is very expensive to see the Toronto games, so the Bills fans in the US will (for the most part) not return the favor and drive north for a game.

  51. kev86 says: May 5, 2011 9:50 AM

    Take the Jets. They annoy a lot of us in NY. Especially with fatso in town.

  52. mattyc says: May 5, 2011 9:55 AM

    I’ve been thinking of moving, Toronto being one destination. If they had Pro Football there, I would definitely do it!

  53. jcjaguar says: May 5, 2011 9:56 AM

    Suck it Toronto and you other Jacksonville haters…We are keeping our team!

  54. joecoz17 says: May 5, 2011 10:00 AM

    an NFL team in Toronto would be lame.

    You can’t even tailgate in Toronto, it is illegal

  55. ponci21 says: May 5, 2011 10:06 AM

    On Madden 2007, I relocated the Vikings to Toronto and renamed them the Toronto Cedar Waxwings. We played most home games in snow, ran the ball 40 times a game and won the superbowl. That seems totally feasible. Doesn’t it?

  56. wilddeuce03 says: May 5, 2011 10:11 AM

    For those that say Buffalo won’t move because of the fan base, anyone remember what happened to the Browns??? We’re one of the most loyal fan bases even though we haven’t been relevant since the 80’s and looked what happened to us. Don’t think it can’t happen because it can.

    That being said, I’d hate to see Buffalo lose it’s team or any city for that matter.

  57. pakasprz says: May 5, 2011 10:12 AM

    Roger Goodell is from Western New York and knows full well how much the Bills mean to Buffalo. It be over our dead bodies before the Bills move.

    To get a Jim Rome Tour Stop, Buffalonians sent thousands of emails to WGR 550. People in Buffalo would be holding rallies downtown in Lafayette Square daily to keep the Bills.

    More importantly with Goodell being a WNY guy he knows the rivalry in the NHL between the Buffalo Bills and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Since the Leafs moved into the Northeast Division it has become one of the more heated rivalry and no matter how bad either of them are the games are intense.

    When there is a game between the two HSBC Arena in Buffalo is split 50/50 between Sabres and Leaf fans. The only reason the Air Canada Centre isn’t the same is that it is already soldout in advanced by Leaf fans and corporations there.

    If there is a team in Buffalo and Toronto it could possibly become one of the more marquee rivalries in the NFL.

  58. eustus says: May 5, 2011 10:18 AM

    First of all, Rob and Doug Ford are imbeciles. They are completely unafraid of opening their mouths and not letting things like common sense (let alone real, thorough research) get in the way of making an announcement. The New Orleans thing is just an example of how ignorant these clowns are.

    Second of all, a franchise in Toronto is a bad, bad idea. 3/4 of the fun of going to a game is the road trip, the dirty and the casinos in Niagra Falls (Sundowner, holla if ya hear me), and the tailgating.

    With that said, if the NFL thinks they can make more money out of the deal, it’ll happen. Fans in Jacksonville, Buffalo and any other small market team with a fiercely loyal fan base need to understand – that doesn’t amount to jack-squat with the guys who run this league. All they care about return on investment. Your heart and soul doesn’t mean anything more to them than how much money they can get out of it.

  59. jcjaguar says: May 5, 2011 10:30 AM

    eustus says:
    May 5, 2011 10:18 AM

    “Fans in Jacksonville, Buffalo and any other small market team with a fiercely loyal fan base need to understand – that doesn’t amount to jack-squat with the guys who run this league. All they care about return on investment. Your heart and soul doesn’t mean anything more to them than how much money they can get out of it.”

    Unfortunately, you may be right.

  60. jvillejags says: May 5, 2011 10:47 AM

    The Jaguars are NOT moving from Jacksonville….that drum is broken so you need to stop trying to beat it.

  61. nflfancda says: May 5, 2011 10:47 AM

    myeaglescantwin, re: your comments about Canadian currency,”would they pay in loonies or dollars?”. You may want to check the latest exchange rates. The Canadian dollar is currently worth more than the US dollar so those jokes about our currency are about as old as the Bob & Doug references.
    Beyond that, I agree with those who say that the Niagara region can’t support 2 NFL teams. Torontonians don’t care about the CFL; they want to be in the major leagues but they have also shown a propensity to only support a team when it wins (except the Leafs).
    This is just politics. The guy just got elected and is making a populist statement.

  62. joetoronto says: May 5, 2011 10:56 AM

    myeaglescantwin says: May 5, 2011 8:34 AM

    DUMBEST MOVE EVER…

    aren’t all their international athletic organizations floundering cause canadians really dont care??

    could you imagine getting drafted by Toronto. & would they pay in loonies or dollars?
    ********************************************************
    Wow, that’s a hell of allot of ignorance for one post, congratulations.

    Oh, speaking of dollars, we don’t want your “funny money” here, it’s not worth a crap anymore.

  63. joetoronto says: May 5, 2011 11:00 AM

    johnnybuc44 says: May 5, 2011 9:47 AM

    I am Canadian, and I can tell you that although the corporate support would be there, the people of Toronto will NOT support an NFL franchise on a long term basis. They haven’t sold out any of the 3 regular season games played there, having sold only 52,134 seats in 2008, 51,567 in 2009, and 50,746 in 2010. And that’s with some “creative marketing” in the form of discounted tickets paired up with tickets for other events. Canada is hockey country, and an NFL team would play “second fiddle” to the Toronto Maple Leafs. That’s just the way it is, and I don’t think the NFL wants to (or should) take a back seat to anybody.
    *******************************************************
    Oh, you’re a “Canadian”, where do you live, Nova Scotia?

    Buddy, I just bought tickets to the Skins/Bills game for a customer of mine. At $500.00 a pop, to watch two teams from other cities play, getting 50,000 is pretty damn good.

  64. thedudesnotin says: May 5, 2011 11:02 AM

    I think the Ford bros. are just playing some political games here.

    I am not quite sure how they expect to sell out a 80,000 seat stadium when they can’t sell out 55,000 seat SkyDome, er, Rogers Centre for the Bills games.

    Maybe it would be the location of the stadium that would do it. Right next to the Horse Racing Stadium Woodbine, there is a large packet of land that could definitely have an NFL sized stadium placed there, within a 4 major highways radius so lots of people can get there, plus lots of parking spaces, whereas the SkyDome is ass for all these much needed parts to your overall experience.

    Since Rob Ford is the new mayor with connections to a higher power, our newly elected Prime Minister Harper, I am sure the rules on tailgating will be relaxed. I know it’s a provincial law, but, that may change with this falls election..

    I would love to see football here. What I don’t want to see is another team re-locating. I seen first hand what it did to Cleveland, and it ain’t right. Secondly, I haven’t been to a Bills game here, due to the high ticket prices, plus, well, it’s the Bills..so expansion it is..

  65. southyank7 says: May 5, 2011 11:11 AM

    don’t know if the JAGS are mocing to toronto but they are def leaving jacksonville… the only time they sell enough tickets to stop the BLACKOUT is when they play Indy or Steelers… & the steelers take over the stadium…. the fact that jacksonville got a team & a super bowl is a JOKE…

  66. tyight says: May 5, 2011 11:14 AM

    I live in Vancouver Canada and I am more of an NFL fan then even a Hockey fan…….and I can tell you first hand that moving an NFL franchise to Canada is a bad idea on all fronts:

    The Seattle Seahawks have a season ticket list that consists of just as many Vancouver residents as it does Seattle residents. (I am a Seahawk season ticket holder, and I am not even a Seahawk fan). If an NFL team were ever to move to Vancouver, it would literally kill both franchises – because i dont believe the North West could support two franchises. Look at the Vancouver Grizzlies & Seattle Sonics, where are they now??

    Same applies to Toronto & Buffalo. Vancouver & Seattle are only 3 hours driving distance away. Toronto & Buffalo are a hell of alot closer…..again it would kill both franchies.

    As a Canadian who loves the NFL more then any sport in the world…lets keep the NFL in the US and keep those teams who border the Canadian line alive, so us Canadian die hards can still get our fix in on your glorious sport.

  67. rickydo22 says: May 5, 2011 11:21 AM

    Unless the city dos’nt support their team,no team sould relocate! There is no better Football town than Cleveland,and Baltimore stole our team. They lost a team in the middle of the night,so they know how badly it feels to lose a team. If I lived in Baltimore I would never support the Ravens. No matter how much I love football. That cowardly move cost Art Modell a place in the Hall of Fame. We put 80,000 rear ends in those seats and he still took the team from us. He NEVER told the fans,I move unless I get a new stadium. If he would have,he would have gotten so much public support,that the politicions would have been forced to act on it. We kept our name and colors,but we had to bulid a team in 6 months,from top to bottom. We are in good hands now,but it took 15 years to do it.

  68. georgeanderson2 says: May 5, 2011 11:24 AM

    This league has shown over and over, it is not about the fans. Every NFL city has a loyal fan base. Every NFL city has die-hard fans. The league is about making money.

    If they leave Buffalo, the league will do the proper PR move and “leave the tradition with the city”. Some cities and their fan bases lost that history before that became the chic move. It still is terrible that the Indy owners and the league hold onto the records of the Baltimore Colts and combines them.

  69. garem75 says: May 5, 2011 11:47 AM

    awdlmd says:
    May 5, 2011 8:42 AM

    The Bills and Saints have two of the most loyal fanbases in the league (more so than the franchises deserve really). Moving either of them would be an insult to all NFL fans. Jacksonville should just be contracted (along with Carolina while they’re at it).

    __________________________________

    Don’t lump Carolina in with Jacksonville. Carolina has been to 2 NFC championships and a Super Bowl. Even with the Panthers struggles last year, there wasn’t 1 blackout locally. If they really wanted to contract, obviously Jacksonville would be the obvious choice, along with the Texans. Neither of those franchises has a strong fanbase or very much success since their beginnings. Carolina is a successful franchise regardless of their 2010 record.

  70. channelguy says: May 5, 2011 11:58 AM

    All of this is moot because any move to Toronto is YEARS away. There is no suitable stadium, and more importantly, there is no way to build one, not using public money. The federal government, which was just re-elected, campaigned strongly OPPOSING federal funds to build sports facilities. The Ontario provincial government is broke. Mayor Ford is basically a Canadian Tea Party guy, campaigned attacking wasteful government spending, and has cut it significantly since taking office. And a poll out today shows he has 70% support. Good for him, but also shows theres not much sentiment for kicking in big bucks for a stadium. So unless a new owner wants to foot the bill for a new stadium it isn’t happening.

    There also isn’t much support in Toronto for grabbing the Bills from Buffalo. Western New York is an economic wasteland, but the Bills still have lots of loyal fans. I’m sure the NFL would like the Bills to move to Toronto (Metro Toronto is now bigger than Metro Chicago, and the 3rd largest market in North America) but snatching the Bills like Baltimore grabbed the Browns from Cleveland would get the franchise off to a lousy start.

  71. jcjaguar says: May 5, 2011 12:05 PM

    garem75 says:
    May 5, 2011 11:47 AM

    “Don’t lump Carolina in with Jacksonville. Carolina has been to 2 NFC championships and a Super Bowl.” Jags have been to 2 AFC Championship games. They have NEVER had the first pick in the NFL draft….Can Carolina say that?

  72. jcjaguar says: May 5, 2011 12:06 PM

    garem75 says:
    May 5, 2011 11:47 AM

    “Don’t lump Carolina in with Jacksonville. Carolina has been to 2 NFC championships and a Super Bowl.”

    Jags have been to 2 AFC Championship games. They have NEVER had the first pick in the NFL draft….Can Carolina say that?

  73. BlackAndGoldAllDay says: May 5, 2011 12:09 PM

    Assuming the Saints will be playoff contenders for another 3-4 years, and assuming the Saints would have to suck for 4-5 years before they would consider a move, and assuming the fans and city would fight any move for a couple years, it would be at least a decade before the Saints could be included seriously in a conversation like this.

  74. joetoronto says: May 5, 2011 12:32 PM

    channelguy:

    Why do you think companies like Bell or RIM wouldn’t build a stadium to replace the Rogers Centre?

    I’m just curious.

  75. harloeisdead says: May 5, 2011 1:03 PM

    The Jaguars will NEVER leave Jacksonville.

  76. channelguy says: May 5, 2011 1:43 PM

    Joe

    Because the NFL requires an individual own a team, not a company (meaning the present and recent past ownership of all the other Toronto sports teams by beer companies, cable companies and pension funds wouldn’t be acceptable). That rules Bell out.

    RIM is different, because it’s owned by one guy, Jim Balsillie. But Balsillie is a HOCKEY fan, not a football fan to my knowledge. I doubt the NFL would go for him anyway. They like button-down owners. Balsillie, for people who don’t know hockey, has tried to buy some NHL teams, and is like Mark Cuban on steroids. Not a good fit for the NFL, imo.

  77. ilovefoolsball says: May 5, 2011 1:54 PM

    The Saints ain’t leaving New Orleans. The Hornets might be though.

  78. baronvonmonocle says: May 5, 2011 3:15 PM

    jpmelon says:
    May 5, 2011 9:48 AM
    “If the Bills stay in Buffalo and Toronto gets a different team permanently it will split the NFL fans in Canada between the two.”

    Most people in Toronto aren’t Bills fans, anyway. The Bills are one of the more popular teams but it’s really like the United Nations here. Pretty much every team has a fanbase, just of differing sizes.

    That’s what makes it ridiculous when people say that the games at Rogers Centre somehow prove that Toronto can’t support an NFL team. The fact is, most of us aren’t Bills fans and those who are can easily go to a game in Buffalo for a fraction of the price and have a better experience.

    Those who actually know Toronto (as opposed to people a thousand miles away in some other part of the country -but hey it’s all Canada, right?) know that there is absolutely no question that an NFL team in Toronto would do very well. The population base can easily support a team and it would be among the most successful in getting the all-important corporate dollars.

  79. gordojays63 says: May 5, 2011 4:03 PM

    Interesting. However, that is a pipe dream for the Mayor. He has recieved some flack over this as well because of the Argos who are the oldest team in North America.

    They Mayor of Toronto is basically slapping the face of the oldest teams in sports.

    First off we have the Pan Am games which is going to cost the city 100 Million if not more.

    A new stadium would cost close to a billion for an NFL team or close to that anyways.

    Paul Godfrey who brought the Jays to town has been trying to get a team since the 70s and we still don’t have one.

    Other issues I read about is the revenue sharing from TV revenue. A team in Toronto would do nothing for the broadcasters in the U.S. in terms of adverstising dollars since the CRTC regulates that all commercials here in Canada have to be Canadian content only.

    TV revenue from a Canadian broadcaster would be nothing compared to the U.S. Broadcasters. I heard on the Radio a TSN rep said that they might pay only as much as 20 million per season for the NFL rights up here. That is because of only 16 games would be broadcast for the local team.

    Rob Ford is a good Mayor but he is living a dream over this. Not to mention the fact that they have yet to sellout one of the Bills games up here so far.

  80. jpmelon says: May 5, 2011 4:44 PM

    @ baronvonmonocle

    I lived in Buffalo for 28 years. Not exactly thousands of miles from toronto. I have many Canadian friends and I do 60% of my business in Canada. I’m very familiar with Toronto.

    There are a ton of Bills fans in Toronto. I have no doubt that Toronto could support a team of their own, but given the option between 2 teams, they would choose the Toronto “whatevers” over the Bills……how many people in Toronto are Sabres fans?

    My only argument was that it would hurt the Bills if the Canadian (toronto area) football fans had another option.

  81. buffalo110 says: May 5, 2011 4:52 PM

    Have Totonto finance the building of a stadium in Niagra Falls, CA. It is pretty much equal distance from Orchard Park, NY and Toronto, CA. Have the Bills move their games there and everyone is happy. Otherwise, lock Toronto out by BUILDING a stadium in Niagra Falls, NY. If the Bills did this, as they should have years ago they would go from one of the smallest markets to one to the largest in the league (3-5 largest) based on population within the 90 miles. Then Toronto wouldnt even be allowed to offer a team because of proximity to an existing NFL team (I think). Either way, the Bills should make a play to build this stadium in the US or in Canada. That way Jerry Jones can stop whining.

  82. rdskns2000 says: May 5, 2011 5:42 PM

    Once Ralph Wilson dies, the Bills are in play. The team will be sold and there is no guarantee the Bills will remain.

    So, the Jags sold out last year. That’s because they have a tarp over part of the the stadium. Jacksonville never has completely sold out a full stadium in a long time, even during the Coughlin years when they were winning. That franchise will be relocated eventually.

    LA will have a franchise within 2 years after a new CBA is agreed 2.

  83. wnyer2 says: May 5, 2011 6:30 PM

    When Mr. Wilson does pass…remember the name Terry Pegula. The Pennsylvania billionaire (whose wife is from Orchard Park, by the way) bought the Buffalo Sabres three months ago and is committed to building a winning hockey team that stays in Western New York.

    When Jim Kelly coyly mentioned last fall that he would be part of an investment group to purchase the Bills, and that he already “has people in line” I believe he may have been referring to Mr. Pegula.

  84. baronvonmonocle says: May 5, 2011 7:12 PM

    @jpmelon

    That part about people who actually know Toronto wasn’t directed at you. I guess I could have been clearer about that.

    You’re right that a franchise in Toronto would mean trouble for the Bills. I’d still go to Bills games but I’m sure many others wouldn’t.

  85. nationalmediacansuckit says: May 5, 2011 8:45 PM

    @rdskns2000

    Wow, you need a little help on your info my friend, so I’m here. Don’t take everything you read on PFT to heart. Everbank Field holds 84,000 people without the tarps and 67,000 with the tarps. The stadium was built to continue to host the FL/GA college game. The tarps were installed to make this stadium up to par with every other NFL stadium in the league. See you wouldn’t know this b/c you don’t have a clue about Jacksonville, based on the fact that you brought up the Coughlin years.

    Now I know here is where you’re going to go research and pull up some old clipping when the Jags were horrible at the end of the Coughlin era and fans were aggrivated to try and prove me wrong, but save your precious time. I already know the truth. So just worry about your beloved Redskins and tell Daniel Snyder if he keeps opening up his checkbook and keep spending millions ONE day he’ll buy a championship. Nice try though guy. See you around.

  86. rolandsloan says: May 5, 2011 11:02 PM

    Had Bills season tickets for many years. I had
    conversations with Canadian fans almost weekly.
    99% of those folks were from Hamilton or South of there. Every one of them told me they had no
    interest in going to Toronto for NFL games due
    to the cost and limited tailgating.

    By the way.Most Bills fans are sick of sharing home games with Toronto. It’s like loaning out your wife one day out of 8. Kinda.

  87. recon163 says: May 5, 2011 11:42 PM

    @ nationalmediacansuckit:

    “Wow, you need a little help on your info my friend, so I’m here.”

    And you need some as well so let me help you….

    “Everbank Field holds 84,000 people without the tarps and 67,000 with the tarps.”

    Actually 76k without the tarps.

    “The stadium was built to continue to host the FL/GA college game.”

    Actually the stadium was being renovated to continue to host the FL/GA game when additional monies were added in order to bring the stadium up to NFL standards.

    “The tarps were installed to make this stadium up to par with every other NFL stadium in the league.”

    Funny that they weren’t installed until 2005 as a result of blackouts. If the tarps were installed to bring the stadium up to par, then why wait ten years after it opened to do it?

  88. recon163 says: May 5, 2011 11:48 PM

    @ rdskns2000:

    “So, the Jags sold out last year.”

    Wrong. The Jags averaged 93% of the stadium filled.

    “That’s because they have a tarp over part of the the stadium.”

    Wrong. They avoided blackouts by offering special financing and cutting ticket prices. Even so they almost had two blackouts but were able to get extensions from the league which allowed them to sell the tickets and avoid the blackout.

    “Jacksonville never has completely sold out a full stadium in a long time . . .”

    Partially true. They did pretty good in 2006 with 99% of the stadium filled. 2009 was miserable though…….

  89. recon163 says: May 5, 2011 11:56 PM

    @ wnyer2:

    “When Mr. Wilson does pass…remember the name Terry Pegula.”

    This is what you should remember:

    Forbes NFL Team Valuations:
    #28- Buffalo Bills-$799 million

    That is the number that matters. If a potential owner thinks that number will go up with a move, then bye bye Bills.

  90. joetoronto says: May 6, 2011 5:41 AM

    channelguy:

    Good points. So then, even if the Rogers Centre was big enough as is, they couldn’t play there anyway, right?

  91. joetoronto says: May 6, 2011 9:24 AM

    channelguy:

    I just listened to Doug Ford on The Fan590.

    First of all, he apologized for mentioning New Orleans as a possible team, his information was obviously old.

    Secondly, he mentioned that one of the ideas regarding the stadium issue is to dig down enough to add another 15,000 seats.

    Are you absolutely positive that corporations can own an NFL team?

  92. mechajaguar says: May 7, 2011 9:15 PM

    The Jags aren’t leaving Jacksonville, period.

  93. recon163 says: May 8, 2011 12:11 AM

    @ mechajaguar:

    let me fix this for you:

    “The Jags aren’t leaving Jacksonville, period*”

    *= This statement is valid until the day Wayne Weaver sells the team.

  94. egetto says: May 9, 2011 8:37 PM

    Thanks for the clarity. Jags to LA, Jags to Toronto, keep all the wisdom coming, you guys get smarter every year since the LA “done deal” started churning BS on this rag website in 2008.

    63K every sunday in a city a little over a million beg to differ but thats ok. By the way, Weaver has gone on record a lot of times about the team never leaving Jax, saying he will indeed sell the team when it is time, but to someone or group of someones who have the same passion about this city and keeping the team here, something that 32 billionaires in the world who get to own an NFL team have the liberty to do.

  95. recon163 says: May 9, 2011 11:53 PM

    @egetto:

    “63K every sunday in a city a little over a million beg to differ but thats ok.”

    Not really. Many seasons with no sellouts, so not every Sunday. But you go right on believing.

    “By the way, Weaver has gone on record a lot of times about the team never leaving Jax, saying he will indeed sell the team when it is time, but to someone or group of someones who have the same passion about this city . . .”

    Of course once sold he has no say at all about it. The bottom line?

    Forbes franchise values:
    #32 Jacksonville Jaguars- $725 mil

    That poor number is a result of a small market. So if an owner is willing to sit at the bottom of the revenue list so be it. Just keep in mind that a move to LA will shoot that number above $1 billion.

  96. egetto says: May 10, 2011 10:35 AM

    @recon163 – I’ve got to assume you are from LA, so nothing I say will keep you and the other Jag bashers from banging the 2008 drum in 2011 with no drum cover on it, and the writers on the website who keep trying to keep the Jags moving story alive. Yes, Jacksonville is one of the smallest markets, which in turn results in the smallest revenue….got it….. and thanks for business tip that Weaver will no longer have say about the team once he sells it. However, follow me here….. there are wealthy people in the Jacksonville area who also love the city like Weaver does, and could agree that the team should stay here and Weaver could sell to them where keeping the team here is a condition of the sale….plus if he was just in it for moving the value above a billion or whatever youre guessing, he probably would have put it in motion during the down years of 2008/2009 when attendance and the team was down. This is a young, ascending team, attendance is good, fan base is much more loyal than portrayed nationally, and the future is bright. Move on Jag bashers, all of you, you are wrong.

  97. wtf6969 says: May 10, 2011 11:39 AM

    myeaglescantwin says:

    could you imagine getting drafted by Toronto. & would they pay in loonies or dollars?

    I’m sorry, do you mean that loonie that’s worth more than your dollar right now?

  98. shackdelrio says: May 10, 2011 1:16 PM

    Recon, you spend a lot of time and effort just to come up with reasons why the Jaguars should move. Reasons that nobody on here cares about and reason that will be forgotten as this page sinks to the internet abyss.

    Don’t you have anything better to do?

  99. Deb says: May 10, 2011 4:04 PM

    New Orleans? New Orleans? To Toronto? And Goodell is actually going to discuss that with those … Canadians?

    How I despise that man.

  100. recon163 says: May 10, 2011 11:26 PM

    @ shackdelrio:

    “Reasons that nobody on here cares about and reason that will be forgotten as this page sinks to the internet abyss.”

    Well you must as you have taken time to comment.

    “Don’t you have anything better to do?”

    Interesting. I shouldn’t take the time to comment but you can? And when did you get the power over who can and cannot comment here?

  101. recon163 says: May 10, 2011 11:34 PM

    @ egetto:

    “I’ve got to assume you are from LA, so nothing I say will keep you and the other Jag bashers from banging the 2008 drum in 2011 . . .”

    2008 is pretty close to 2010 (97% of the stadium filled on average) so why should that be an issue?

    “However, follow me here….. there are wealthy people in the Jacksonville area who also love the city like Weaver does, and could agree that the team should stay here and Weaver could sell to them where keeping the team here is a condition of the sale….plus if he was just in it for moving the value above a billion or whatever youre guessing, he probably would have put it in motion during the down years of 2008/2009 when attendance and the team was down.”

    Lot of ‘ifs’ there. You seem to have made up their minds for them, in the future we may see if they agree.

    ” . . .attendance is good . . . ”
    It is? 97% of the bowl filled. Suites and club seats empty? Cut rate ticket prices and zero percent financing to entice fans? Ok if you say so…….

  102. shackdelrio says: May 11, 2011 9:33 AM

    The Jaguars are hardly the only team offering payment plans to fans for season tickets.

    The Buccaneers, Chargers, Chiefs, Dolphins, and Raiders are among other teams that also offer payment plans for season tickets. I would not be surprised to find out that more teams offer similar plans.

  103. recon163 says: May 11, 2011 10:04 AM

    @shackdelrio:

    “The Jaguars are hardly the only team offering payment plans to fans for season tickets.

    The Buccaneers, Chargers, Chiefs, Dolphins, and Raiders are among other teams that also offer payment plans for season tickets. I would not be surprised to find out that more teams offer similar plans.”

    Thanks. And what do those teams have in common?

  104. shackdelrio says: May 11, 2011 12:16 PM

    In the case of the Chargers and Raiders, they both are AFC teams in California that struggle with ticket sales and both are in need of new stadiums.

    But the Jaguars should move and give California a third AFC team despite the above.

    I think it’s pretty clear that you either really have something against the Jaguars (or the city of Jacksonville) or you are somebody with some interest in a team (specifically the Jaguars) moving to Los Angeles. It’s unlikely somebody would have the numbers you have at your disposal unless they had an ulterior motive.

  105. recon163 says: May 12, 2011 2:28 AM

    @ shackdelrio:

    “In the case of the Chargers and Raiders, they both are AFC teams in California that struggle with ticket sales and both are in need of new stadiums.”

    Actually all the named teams have attendance issues. And the Raiders, Chargers, and Jags are at the bottom in franchise value. Nice spin work but falling short.

    “I think it’s pretty clear that you either really have something against the Jaguars (or the city of Jacksonville) . . .”

    Actually I don’t. I just point out facts that fly in the face of Jags fans (As in fanatics) beliefs about their franchise.

    Attendance? Fans think it is great, it isn’t really. Fan support matters? No, not really.
    Team will never move? No, not really. Look if the Colts moved, anybody can move. (Except for Green Bay, and the NFL would love to end the public ownership of the team.)

    ” . . .or you are somebody with some interest in a team (specifically the Jaguars) moving to Los Angeles.”

    I do have an interest, mainly that I have money burning a hole in my pocket to support an LA team. The Jags are just one of the many suspects. If they move, great! If they don’t, I will not care one iota.

    “It’s unlikely somebody would have the numbers you have at your disposal unless they had an ulterior motive.”

    Actually the numbers at my disposal are simply the product of doing internet searches. All the info I post can be found in newspapers, journals, and magazines.

    Ulterior motive? No. I think I am pretty above board with my motives.

  106. shackdelrio says: May 12, 2011 9:22 AM

    In 2009, you cared enough to register for the website of the Jacksonville newspaper just to post about Jaguars attendance.

  107. recon163 says: May 12, 2011 12:57 PM

    @ shackdelrio;

    “In 2009 you cared enough to register for the website of the Jacksonville newspaper just to post about Jaguars attendance.”

    Oh was there a deadline to register before? And after which one could no longer comment without you permission? Didn’t know you were policing comment dates.

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