Your posts might be relevant if you bothered to read a comment before trying to refute it. I’ll bet you and Sarah subscribe to the same newspapers.

@eagleswin …

I didn’t say anything about De Smith or any other individual. I said these cases are being handled by teams of experienced labor attorneys–and they are–and CEOs (meaning the owners, remember them?). My point was that people can’t expect athletes with no expertise in these matters to have expertise in these matters. They are leaving that to their professional representatives, as they should. Seems straightforward enough for a kindergartner to grasp. But most kindergartners don’t continually pull single sentences out of context in sad efforts to play “Gotcha!” Aww … and you even went to Wikipedia. Bless your heart.

The intricate details of these labor negotiations are being managed by experienced labor attorneys and CEOs. You can’t expect rank-and-file football players to understand the fine points of all this anymore than you do. They’re trusting their representatives to act in their best interests.

———————————–

It’s news to me that DeMaurice Smith, who is the leader of this merry band of misfits is an experienced labor attorney and CEO.

From Wikipedia : Prior to his election, he was a trial lawyer and litigation partner in the Washington, DC offices of law firms Patton Boggs, LLP and Latham & Watkins LLP. In private practice, he represented Fortune 500 companies in criminal and complex civil cases, compliance matters, and internal investigations.

Where on god’s green earth did you get that that DeMaurice Smith was an experienced labor attorney or CEO?

Smith has ZERO experience as a labor attorney. Litigation experience does not equal negotiation prowess. He has also not shown that he wants to negotiate until the litigation is done.

This will end badly for them……

Deb, really? You’ve got it totally backwards. Who filed the anti-trust complaint in Federal Court? Four years or more, Deb. Enjoy learning about hockey!

Thank you! Have said I’m going to make a bracelet of my thumbs down

Truly well said! I look forward to reading your independent analyis in this blog universe of the uninformed and envious follower. In this upside down world of canned responses and PR manipulated opinion, I find honor in the number of thumbs down recieved. May you recieve many thumbs down!

I’ve talked to as many owners and players as you have to make you so certain of their motives, sweetheart. That works both ways.

On the other hand …

I’ve been reading interviews with some of these owners going back years, even predating the previous CBA. They’ve made their desire to unravel the current structure of the NFL and its revenue-sharing plan well-known. Powerful, successful, intelligent businessmen are quite capable of manipulating events to their advantage. If you followed the long history of these labor disputes rather than just jumping in on the night the NFLPA decertified, you’d know the owners spent two years planning the lockout and did not negotiate in good faith up until that day in March.

I’ve also read interviews with several players, including some posting here, from the rank-and-file–not top-tier earners–who simply want the lockout to end so they can return to work. Though some have other ideas, many have made clear they don’t want the draft to end–and they’d be fools to want no-rules bidding wars. The current price structure ensures guys who aren’t Tom Bradys or Peyton Mannings can earn a good wage, even if it’s only for a few months before they’re cut.

You’ll have to excuse me. I’m a student of NFL history and have directly followed the league’s machinations regarding players for a couple of decades. Nothing owners do surprises me.

More important, being female I don’t suffer from male envy of professional athletes that has so many on PFT determined to blame players for a work stoppage that was devised and executed by owners. I’m not so desperate to believe elite athletes are no different than burger-flippers that I’d keep classifying them as minimum-wage workers demanding to see the boss’s books. As long as people posting here insist on viewing the situation in such limited–and completely inaccurate terms–they’re never going to understand what’s really going on. But 100 people can thumbs-down my posts. Doesn’t make them any less true.

When you file a lawsuit, nobody, and I mean nobody, knows where or how it will end. How do you know what D. Smith is thinking? Are you one of his legal buddies?

From everything that D. Smith has done and said, it is clear that he wants litigation and he doesn’t care about the players, the game, or the NFL. He just wants to win to show how “bad” he is.

Do not be surprised when this mess drags well after June, July, and August.
================================

While it is true that no one can truly know how a lawsuit will end, it is more than a little naive to think there is no way to control how long a case goes on. You act as if a lawsuit is some sort of runaway freight train. It is, in fact, a very tightly controlled process.

I am no fan of De Smith. I have posted many, many times that the players made a mistake in picking a litigator to lead them. But they didn’t elect him King. He still works for them.

And what would you expect him to say? HEY! We filed this big scary lawsuit- but don’t worry fellas! It’s just a negotiating ploy, we’ll never take it that far!

I don’t need to be one of his “legal buddies” to know that a negotiating ploy only works if you can convince the other side that is not just a ploy.

I won’t be surprised if this thing drags INTO August. That will depend on how long the 8th Circuit drags their feet after the June 3rd hearing. But once they rule, things will begin to happen quickly.

The idea that the players (or the owners for that matter) will push this lawsuit past the 8th circuit ruling on the lockout for months and months and actually take it trial is something you continually speculate about that I have read nowhere else.

I have said from the beginning that once the 8th circuit rules on the lockout, whichever side loses will adjust their position and a deal will get done in time for the season to start on time.

This has been the plan of both sides all along.

The NFLPA can’t admit that they have no intention of taking this lawsuit all the way, nor can they admit that they know full well that the draft and free agency rules are never going away.

This is how the legal system in America works. If you want A, you ask for ABC&D.

Of course the players statements don’t mesh with your wild theory. They’ve been on the conference calls, they’ve been in the meetings- De Smith has met with every team as early as last off season- and they know the real plan.

The only difference between their position on the situation and their leadership’s is that they aren’t smart enough to lie about it.
————————————-

When you file a lawsuit, nobody, and I mean nobody, knows where or how it will end. How do you know what D. Smith is thinking? Are you one of his legal buddies?

From everything that D. Smith has done and said, it is clear that he wants litigation and he doesn’t care about the players, the game, or the NFL. He just wants to win to show how “bad” he is.

Do not be surprised when this mess drags well after June, July, and August.

He didn’t even consider that the lockout might be upheld.

Also, he said that he and Goodell had a beer and talked the night before the players walked out of the CBA negotiations. He said that he told Goodell what the players want, but he didn’t tell the interviewer.

Question: just what do the players want other than to keep the old CBA which the owners cannot and will not do? Does anyone know? Does D. Smith even know? What is the point of this whole mess?

I do not see where the NFL is trying to screw the players, but I see the NFL as wanting to tweak the old CBA. Why can’t the players give a little and gain a little. Swap less total pay to players in exchange for less or no restricted agents.

FACT: D. Smith walked out of CBA negotiations, decertified the union, had certain players file suit, and did not attend at least one court ordered mediation session.

If fans, players and PFT employees want football, then tell D. Smith to get his butt into negotiations.

And how many owners and players have you talked to that allows you to make such definitive statements about what they want?

I agree with most of the posters and fans. Lets get back to work. Here is the simpliest of solutions.

Lift the owner imposed lockout, using 2009 rules AND at the same time, negotiate a settlement.

The fans get football, owners and players make money. That is how simple this is.
—————————
Soooo .. give the players what they want rulewise, let them play and get paid, remove all owner leverage but let the owners negotiate from under the threat of the lawsuit and make it all under the oversight of a federal judge.

Under those conditions, why would the players give up anything? That’s why the players are so hellbent on suing the league into oblivion, because they have no leverage. They could strike but couldn’t do that until training camp opened and you know they don’t want to miss any paychecks.

Litigation was their relatively pain free alternative to striking. The highly paid vets for the most part get an extended vacation while someone else does the heavy lifting before any paychecks are missed. Noone cares about the bottom 50 percent, they will do as they are told. In theory. It all hinges on whethere the lockout get’s lifted or not.

The real problem here is that some owners want this to implode the league as we know it. That’s why they keep pushing this through the courts when it’s unlikely they’ll win in the end. They want a no-rules league without a draft and without revenue-sharing because it means more money for them. The players aren’t the enemy. They’re being manipulated by people with a lot more power and a lot more at stake.

It really is amazing that these players aren’t of the mindset…. wait they’re not asking us to reduce our actual wages, and they’re not looking to reduce the salary cap? Where do I sign?!?!

___________________________________
You are ridiculously niave. Of course there will be a pay cut. If it is another billion off the top, or a reduced cap figure, call it whatever you want, that will mean less for the players. You may be amazed, I am stunned. If you have X, and take something, anything away from it, you will have less than X. This is 1st grade math.

And while we are at it, another Billion off the top? Really? For what? They already get one billion. They must be planning for a huge increase in Roger’s salary.

What they are trying to do is use that 1 billion, per year mind you, to establish a fund that will assist owners in building new stadiums. Rather than use the money directly from their pockets, or ask local governments to fund it, they choose this method. Well this impacts the players and the players share, and the players see no direct benefit. If Ziggie Wolfe wants a new stadium, let him build it.

It seems to be the same thing with their choosing De Smith for leadership. It’s another instance where they’re gonna hurt themselves due to not knowing what they’re doing.

They apparently don’t see, or just don’t care, that it doesn’t look at all like their leadership has an actual interest in the game or compromise and doesn’t care about missing the season. The goal seems to be one thing: stick it to the owners as much as possible just for the sake of doing it so and calling it justice.

It really is amazing that these players aren’t of the mindset…. wait they’re not asking us to reduce our actual wages, and they’re not looking to reduce the salary cap? Where do I sign?!?!

It’s like kids playing with matches; they don’t know what they’re doing and chose some real bad leadership.

Any deal where you make the money they do, even the guys on the lower end, where they’re not asked to reduce their wages is something they should have been thankful for and rushed to sign. Instead they chose to declare war. It really is amazing how filthy they’ve made this whole thing.

Lift the owner imposed lockout, using 2009 rules AND at the same time, negotiate a settlement.

The fans get football, owners and players make money. That is how simple this is.

The 8th Cirucit has said that it understands the need for the prompt issuance of its opinion after June 3rd. Won’t be months. I’d guess within 2-3 weeks, maybe even faster.

Many people on here took the rather reasonable position that our opinions carried more weight because we obviously spent much more time reading about football.

Fair enough. But is it possible that maybe we can become overly pessimistic because we are having every statement, every threat, every legal maneuver stuffed down our throats on almost an hourly level? Maybe it’s become hard for us to see the forest for the trees.

If you walked up to someone randomly the street and said the following:

“two sides in a business dispute are arguing over 9 billion dollars. None of that money is lost yet, but if they can’t agree in the 3 months, the money will start to go away. What do you think will happen?”

You know what they would say? “They’ll figure it out by then”.

So maybe we all just need to hit the reset button on our brains. Forget the saber rattling, harsh talk, threats, legal maneuvers, and other general nastiness and just look at the question as stated above.

If we could wash all that crap out of our brains, you know what we would think?

They’ll figure it out.

I have said from the beginning that once the 8th circuit rules on the lockout, whichever side loses will adjust their position and a deal will get done in time for the season to start on time.

This has been the plan of both sides all along.

The NFLPA can’t admit that they have no intention of taking this lawsuit all the way, nor can they admit that they know full well that the draft and free agency rules are never going away.

This is how the legal system in America works. If you want A, you ask for ABC&D.

Of course the players statements don’t mesh with your wild theory. They’ve been on the conference calls, they’ve been in the meetings- De Smith has met with every team as early as last off season- and they know the real plan.

The only difference between their position on the situation and their leadership’s is that they aren’t smart enough to lie about it.

It could end just as quickly as it started. Lift the lockout and players go back to work tomorrow under 2009 or 2010 rules. Everyone gets their football back, players make money, owners make money. See how simple this is?