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Bills fans should be nervous about losing their team to L.A.

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Some viewed the recent decision of AEG’s Tim Leiweke to list five teams other than the Buffalo Bills as candidates for a purchase-and-pack-it-up transaction as a reason to believe that the Bills won’t be targeted for relocation to Los Angeles.  Count Jerry Sullivan of the Buffalo News as among those who view the development as a good sign.

There’s a good chance, however, that the glass is in reality much more than half empty.  With Albert Breer of NFL Network pointing out that, in reality, AEG has been communicating regularly with more than five teams, the Bills become the odds-on favorite for the role of Team No. 6.

And No. 6 could be No. 1.  Leiweke isn’t stupid enough to publicly out the teams that he believes are the best candidates to be available to be bought and then moved.  Instead, it’s more likely that Leiweke’s list consists of teams that he knows AEG won’t be buying and moving; thus, he had no qualms about putting those five franchises in a delicate position in their current homes.

Indeed, the latest tweak introduced by Leiweke — AEG owner Philip Anschutz’s desire to acquire majority interest in the team that moves to L.A. — reduces dramatically the potential universe of franchises that could be moved, since the first hurdle would be a willingness by the current owners to sell.  So if the Raiders and Chargers and Rams and Jaguars and Vikings aren’t for sale, then they won’t be the first tenants of the stadium that has a name but at this point not much more.

The Bills, on the other hand, eventually will meet both of the primary criteria for landing in L.A..

“When [92-year-old owner Ralph] Wilson is gone, all bets are off,” Sullivan writes.  “If he dies, the Bills would be at or near the top of any list for possible relocation.  Wilson has no known succession plan.  He plans to have the team auctioned to the highest bidder.  It’s hard to imagine the top bid coming from someone who intends to keep the Bills in this market.”

Even if the highest bidder has Buffalo roots, long-term earning potential will be much greater in Los Angeles.  Thus, the best hope for Bills fans would be a willingness to support a full-time move to Toronto, with maybe a game or two per year played in Buffalo.

That strategy presents two possible problems.  First, if the Bills are going to leave Buffalo, most fans would prefer that they leave.  If a guy is going to lose his wife, he’d prefer that she move in with a man who lives in another state, not in another house in the same neighborhood.  Second, Toronto will want its own team, not one to which the folks in Buffalo can claim partial ownership.

Regardless, unless and until someone steps up with a willingness to buy the Bills and a stubborn belief that the numbers will work in a shrinking market, the Bills will be one of the most likely teams to be targeted by AEG.  The fact that Leiweke specifically avoided opening a Western New York can of worms when trying to build some buzz in his backyard should make folks in Buffalo even more skittish about how this could eventually play out.

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154 Responses to “Bills fans should be nervous about losing their team to L.A.”
  1. kepickle says: Jun 19, 2011 12:34 PM

    Bills would only get Better if they Moved

  2. canetic says: Jun 19, 2011 12:35 PM

    Jacksonville should be in LA, not Buffalo.

  3. lazershow15 says: Jun 19, 2011 12:41 PM

    Won’t happen. Absolutely not.

  4. skoobyfl says: Jun 19, 2011 12:41 PM

    Many people in WNY are blind to the weakness of highest bidder gets the Buffalo Bills that Ralph Wilson has last expressed as his legacy to the area. After over 50 years of support, he seems to be letting fate decide the course of the ship (shipwreck being an eventuality).

    I suggest that he revise that estate planning to allow his wife who gets an automatic no tax situation to handle selling the Bills after he is gone, versus letting his estate taxes tear the team finances apart.

    Suprises come to those that don’t plan, Ralph’s is a ticket to LA or some other market other than WNY. What a shame that would be.

  5. lennydpocketqb says: Jun 19, 2011 12:44 PM

    If the Bills leave Buffalo, you may turn off the lights in that city. They have been losing people for years and this would be a death blow.

  6. GG Eden says: Jun 19, 2011 12:48 PM

    Business is so cutthroat.
    Even tho the Colts, Browns, Cardinals, and Oilers left their respective cities, their cities ended up getting a team back.
    If the Bills left, it might be curtains there. Which is a real shame. I’ve grown up with so many of these specific cities/regions part of the fabric of the NFL.
    Why I’m more for expansion than relocation.

  7. SmackSaw says: Jun 19, 2011 12:48 PM

    Los Angeles Jaguars sounds good.

  8. everlong016 says: Jun 19, 2011 12:50 PM

    NO team should be in LA. California has too many teams as it is. Just because they’re a big city doesn’t mean they’re entitled to an NFL team, especially when they haven’t been able to hold down the ones they’ve had.

  9. arnoldziffel says: Jun 19, 2011 12:54 PM

    Is Los Angeles really the fabulous market that everyone seems to be making it out to be? Sure, there’s lots of people out there, but if the Rams and Raiders couldn’t make a go of it – in arguably better economic times … why should we think the Bills or anyone else would fair any better?

    The climate and laid-back atmosphere offer plenty of competition for the entertainment dollar, and frankly a losing football team isn’t going to be the fantastic draw that everyone seems to think it will be … especially after the glow of newness wears off.

    Remember, the Rams left L.A. and moved to Missouri, of all places and the Raiders left … twice.

  10. wwwmattcom says: Jun 19, 2011 12:55 PM

    Is there even an NFL anymore? Who care.

  11. xstaticonradio says: Jun 19, 2011 12:55 PM

    The Bills have one of the best fanbases in football, moving them would be retarded. They regularly sell out every game without having to cover up seats.

  12. bfloboom says: Jun 19, 2011 12:55 PM

    I’m sorry, but how in the world does Jerry Sullivan know Ralph Wilson has no succession plan? Sullivan is kind of a joke in Buffalo because he is eternally a doom-and-gloom kind of pessimist in his writing for both the Sabres and the Bills.
    RW notoriously plays things close to the chest, his plan for the Buffalo Bills (whether it be ‘sell to the highest bidder’ or ‘keep them in Buffalo at all costs) is no different. No one except those very, very close to the situation have any real grasp of what he is thinking.
    Sully has no way of knowing Ralph’s plans and him saying this is a total shot in the dark which falls in line with his typical “Buffalo sports teams suck” train of thought

  13. packattack1967 says: Jun 19, 2011 12:56 PM

    I can see the name now – after each towns favorite son. (oj) the Los Angeles Slash

  14. cappa662 says: Jun 19, 2011 12:57 PM

    If you can’t compete financially, you can’t compete. Buffalo doesn’t have the resources to put together a good team. Just move to la.

  15. nyjalleffingday says: Jun 19, 2011 12:57 PM

    Eff that, let’s move the Patriots to LA.

  16. kazkal says: Jun 19, 2011 1:00 PM

    Jaguars & Bills should both move :>

  17. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 1:03 PM

    Silliness.

    Buffalo has supported that team and the NFL will not allow it to move. This is not MLB or the NBA where reality is that over half the franchises in those leagues are in trouble and have to resort to things like the Lebron James circus to get people to pay attention or to allow ESPN to shove 2 teams (Red Sox and Yankees) down America’s throats because the league cannot sustain teams nationwide. Jeeze, we just had a Super Bowl between Green Bay and Pittsburgh — if those were the location of the teams in the World Series or the NBA Finals no one would watch….but they would never get to a championship series because name players wouldn’t be caught dead playing there .

    The NFL is the only true national sport left in America.

    The problem is that this guy wants the current team owner to sell. Not likely. Much more likely that 1) the NFL expands again — with LA and Toronto as 2 top markets to move into or 2) an agreement is made between a team owner and the owners of the new stadium to be built in downtown LA to work out some sort of deal.

  18. jutts says: Jun 19, 2011 1:07 PM

    The question is. How much more can Roger and the rest of the league make in revenue? Sorry Buffalo fans. Money talks, and Mr. Wilson’s estate wants top dollar to the highest bidder. See -Ya.

  19. benh999 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:09 PM

    By way of an outdoor smoking ban, they are already bringing LA to the Bills.

  20. waccoforflacco says: Jun 19, 2011 1:14 PM

    Is Jack Kemp still the quarterback?

  21. tjacks7 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:21 PM

    “If he dies, the Bills would be at or near the top of any list for possible relocation.”

    Soo you’re saying he may not die. That’s impressive.

  22. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 1:21 PM

    I might add that this myth the NFL pushes about creating jobs and lots of money in the cities it plays in is just a myth. The good playing jobs are the players, coaches and team personnel….hardly something that benefits people living in the area. Sure the construction jobs are good for a few years, and restaurants and hotels/night clubs might get some additional revenue….but it’s only 8 times a year. And the ticket takers, guards and other service personnel are pretty much paid minimum wage…again, 8 times a year. No, the big money is made by the team owner(s) in the sale not just of tickets, but of TV rights and memorabilia — something the local economy not only gets no cut of, but in fact lines the owners pocket with.

    I’ve lived in LA for over 20 years. It never missed a beat when the 2 teams moved. In fact, it’s better that they did. Most residents are from elsewhere, and with TV giving the 2nd largest market in America quality games, the people living there get to see the best games each week — oftentimes with their hometown teams in them.

    There is plenty to do on Sunday’s in the Fall and Winter in LA. The area doesn’t need the NFL and that’s why there has been no move by the locals to locate a team there in 15 or so years.

  23. nepatriots128154 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:23 PM

    That would suck for Bill fans, they have supported their team forever even though the Bills suck. Move Jax or Tampa.

  24. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 1:27 PM

    “The question is. How much more can Roger and the rest of the league make in revenue? ”

    A lot less than you think.

    The NFL is making big money in LA now as the locals see the best NFL games on TV.

    The proposed new stadium is for 64,000-74,000 seats. How many more tickets or suites would be sold in LA that are already sold in Buffalo? A good chance that Buffalo outsells LA.

    Worse yet, if there is not a perennially winning team put in LA interest in the NFL would wane. You take away the top games being televised in the area now to show a .500 or worse team, and the locals turn off the TV and go somewhere else during gametime.

  25. mikeyhigs says: Jun 19, 2011 1:28 PM

    I’m sure the NFL would never allow it, but if Ralph Wilson wanted to really leave his legacy, he should sell shares of the Bills and make them publicly owned like the Packers. That’d keep the team in Buffalo.

  26. stairwayto7 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:31 PM

    O.J could see his team every week from jail!

  27. ninerdynasty says: Jun 19, 2011 1:35 PM

    Any team that goes to LA will not last more than a decade in that dumb city. As long as the lakers are in town, it will always be a basketball town with baseball coming 2nd.

  28. cosanostra71 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:38 PM

    expansion? You guys are joking surely?

  29. AlanSaysYo says: Jun 19, 2011 1:39 PM

    I like it just for the realignment possibilities. An AFC team in LA could bump KC out of the AFC West. KC could move to the AFC East or South, hopefully the South, and then the Colts could come home to the AFC East. Colts-Pats twice per year? Warm up the bus.

  30. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 1:40 PM

    Also…..

    LA is the entertainment capital of the world — all thinks to electrical devices.

    People here are used to seeing entertainment on large screens, be it at a theatre, a bar/restaurant or a house.

    And do not forget — LA and NYC are the two biggest front running sports towns in America. When the locals aren’t winning attention goes elsewhere.

  31. frostbelt says: Jun 19, 2011 1:41 PM

    The Bills will never leave Buffalo.

  32. southridge23 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:43 PM

    As a buffalonian I appreciate bills fans’ determination to keep the bills local but you’re either in denial or naive to the economics here…

    Don’t get me wrong there’s nothing more than I want to keep the bills here and the team leaving would be the nail in the coffin to this city but let’s be real…we have an owner who’s only goal is to make money an his intentions are none more evident than sabotaging the city by not acknowledging local interest in the team (Jim Kelly and company) while he’s alive

    The fact that he’s leaving the team to the highest bidder says everything you need to know….sad….really sad

    At this point our only hope is that Ralph makes it another 7+ years and another city caves in before then…otherwise see ya

  33. alreed83 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:44 PM

    Ppl that say Jacksonville should move to LA are only regurgitating what media has been telling them and are incapable of doing homework on their own. If you did you would realize that our attendance is on par with Pittsburgh and Chicago. Unless you care to base statements on fact not what some slob half ass reporter is telling then piss off!

  34. gregwestlake says: Jun 19, 2011 1:53 PM

    Whoever says the Bills should move out of Buffalo have obviously never been to a Bills game. You aren’t just going to a football game, you are going to an event. It’s a rock concert multiplied by 10.

  35. mushin9 says: Jun 19, 2011 1:56 PM

    San Diego is the perfect team to move. Qualcom is a hole. The fan base is terrible. The never mentioned non-secret of the chargers is that the team has a deal with the city that unsold tickets will automatically be purchased to create a “sell-out”.

    As former military I’ve gone to multiple games for free cause the city gives them to the base. A normal Friday military navy quarters started with “anybody want to go to the chargers game this weekend?”

    Seen a “sold-out” crowd where half the stadium wad empty. Thus in a year when SD was atop the division and fighting for homefield in week 12. Ridiculous.

    The team would still be close enough that the hard core fans could take public transport to LA and everyone else could work on their tan or sleep off the hangover from TJ while trying to forget the donkey show their buddy talked them into seeing.

  36. kiltherl says: Jun 19, 2011 1:56 PM

    I wish people would stop publishing fear-perpetuating stories-if a team is going to move let ‘em move and stop throwing it in our faces….but people including me keep reading so what we got?

  37. keepitsimplestoopid says: Jun 19, 2011 2:01 PM

    Build a new stadium halfway between Rochester and Buffalo right off the Thruway and make the team fully regional.

    Besides, the closer to Syracuse you get, the easier it is to pull SYR into the blackout zone (dick move, yes, but it’s all about the $$).

    “Problem” solved. The Bills sell out like crazy unless they’re going 3-13, and even then they do pretty darn well at the box office. Getting them closer to Rochester and Syracuse could only make it easier IMO.

  38. gorilladunk says: Jun 19, 2011 2:01 PM

    @tashkalucy….”the NFL won’t allow them to move”….really? Where have you been the past two decades? The NFL has NO POWER to stop franchise movement. Just look north up the Cali coast if you doubt it. Or the Baltimore area, the Cleveland area, etc. etc. If the owner of the Bills (or any other franchise) wants to move the team then pack the vans, they’re gone!

  39. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 2:03 PM

    “Ppl that say Jacksonville should move to LA are only regurgitating what media has been telling them and are incapable of doing homework on their own.”

    Please keep in mind that God created debit cards because sportswriters cannot balance their checkbooks.

    Over 90% of America is economically illiterate — if not this country wouldn’t be falling apart. And the worst of the bunch are those in the media — particularly sports and entertainment. These people have no clue whatsoever as to how economies and businesses work.

  40. theduuuuuuuuuude says: Jun 19, 2011 2:04 PM

    Anytime there is a story about the NFL relocating a franchise to LA, there are people on here regurgitating the fallacy that the L.A. market can’t support a team. Read up on your history boys and girls. The Rams leaving had nothing to do with attendance, Frontiere simply wanted to move the team to her home town. Similarly, Al Davis moved the Raiders because the L.A. city council never fixed up the Colosseum like they promised, so he got pissed and took the team back to Oakland. It’s a stupid and inaccurate argument to say that these franchises left because of lack of Fan support. What about Cleveland or Houston? Fan support had very little to do with those teams relocating, but for some reason everyone thinks that was the reason for both the Rams and the Raiders leaving L.A..

    It pisses me off when people act like the NFL doesn’t matter to the fans in a market with over 15 million people (if you count Orange County). Yes there are a lot of things to do here, but football fans want football.

  41. steelernfl says: Jun 19, 2011 2:05 PM

    The fans of Buffalo supported they’re team for 50+ years. They should riot in the streets if this move to LA takes place. Why not grant LA and Toronto franchise?

  42. occamsrazor1 says: Jun 19, 2011 2:09 PM

    L.A. should be nervous about getting the Bills.

  43. ramofsteel says: Jun 19, 2011 2:10 PM

    Just create 2 more teams if L.A. is so desperate.

    One for L.A. and the other for Toronto. Then in 15 years one of them will move to Oklahoma. Probably the L.A. one. :)

  44. 1phd says: Jun 19, 2011 2:12 PM

    Haha. Are you kidding? Al Davis already has his oxygen tank and Hearse down there waiting for the first shovel to break ground on his new place.

  45. pitch87mph says: Jun 19, 2011 2:16 PM

    As a Bills fan who grew up in Los Angeles, I couldn’t possibly see a worse outcome for the franchise. I’m certainly not for propping up a franchise in a dying market (Buffalo is shrinking fast–but it’s sells out games even when the team loses. J-Ville, San Diego or Minnesota seem like MUCH more likely candidates given the politics in MN and San Diego and the apathy in J-Ville). But politically speaking, I don’t see Buffalo moving cross country happening. Goodell is from the Western New York area as I recall, not to mention the fact that while NY continues to have it’s problems, its representatives (for better or worse) remain very influential in Congress. And I think the pressure to find a viable WNY solution would trump the extra $$s in L.A.–particularly given other candidates (not to mention Al Davis litigation fight that will go along with it).

    Additionally, just because there is no public succession plan, I have the sneaking suspicion there may be a private one. For all the heat Ralph Wilson has taken in WNY (incompetent, “cheap”, doesn’t live there, Toronto, etc. etc.), he has demonstrated a loyalty to the area unlike any current owner in the NFL and I believe his efforts have always been to try and keep Buffalo viable in spite of its economic and political issues (any WNYer will tell you, the city/area is still run by the mob–it’s just the craziest place to live (went to college there)). I don’t think upon his death, RW is going to give a big ‘ef you’ to WNY. With Terry Pegula, Tom Golisano, Jim Kelly (who has been rumored to be aligned with the two billionaires) and the Rochester money in the area, I think a viable solution to keep the team there will be reached, if one isn’t formally and privately already in place. Certainly the timing of his death may have an impact, too–as in what does the political and economic landscape look like when he should pass on.

    Finally, I’m not convinced his wife won’t take control (my understanding is he can leave team to her without tax consequences) and then sell it in pieces over time to keep the team in WNY. The supposed reason for selling the team is to pay the estate taxes–but that’s not an issue if he wills it to his wife. Granted, in the past RW has said he doesn’t want his wife running the team or having to deal with it, etc. But I haven’t heard that talk as much lately. And though he hasn’t publicly backed away from that point, he hasn’t brought it up either (which he used to do all the time).

    My personal opinion is that the team will stay in WNY. Maybe they’ll move to Rochester, or maybe they’ll expand the Toronto market (kinda like a Green Bay/Milwaukee arrangement–with most games still in Buffalo, but maybe expand to 2 or 3 in Toronto). Or maybe they’ll finally figure out the politics and get that stadium built by Niagara Falls (THAT would be a boon to the area–but the politics/unions/costs/casinos/Canada issues, etc. have made it virtually impossible to even consider–nothing like a crisis to get something going).

    Sure, there’s always a risk because there’s uncertainty. But there are plenty of solutions available to keep the team in the WNY area if the politicians and unions will get their acts in order, and the fans avoid the “trap” of thinking a Toronto/Rochester type of solution means the end of the ‘Buffalo’ Bills. Cause if they don’t, it WILL be the end of the Buffalo Bills.

  46. buffbill235 says: Jun 19, 2011 2:21 PM

    Why should there even be a team in L.A?

    Whatever team moves there won’t make it, just like the Rams or Raiders. So that team will likely end up moving out of L.A. within the first ten years there.

    I think of the teams that could move there and the Bills make some sense but let’s be real if you’ve ever been to Buffalo to watch a game, that’s a place that shuts down the entire town and surrounding towns on game day, one of the best NFL towns. The NFL needs more fans like the ones from Buffalo and not try and take those teams away. Also, I take it they would re-align the divisions again if the Bills did move out there cause it’d be pretty hard to be in the AFC East and be playing in L.A

  47. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 2:21 PM

    everlong016 says: 1)“NO team should be in LA. California has too many teams as it is. Just because they’re a big city doesn’t mean they’re entitled to an NFL team, 2) especially when they haven’t been able to hold down the ones they’ve had.”

    1) I’ve addressed this before; you simply cannot equate “Los Angeles” with “California,” although that seems to be a favored tactic of those who don’t want the team that they follow to move. For what it’s worth, the “too many teams in the state” argument fails on its own merits as well. Given the vast disparity that exists between California’s population / geographic area and that of other states that host multiple sports franchises, a strong case could be made that teams from other states should be moving here.
    2) So from your perspective, the Rams leave, and Los Angeles can’t “hold down” its NFL franchises, but other cities have their NFL franchises “taken away” from them — do I have that about right?

  48. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 2:40 PM

    arnoldziffel says: “ . . . if the Rams and Raiders couldn’t make a go of it – in arguably better economic times … why should we think the Bills or anyone else would fair [sic] any better? Remember, the Rams left L.A. and moved to Missouri, of all places and the Raiders left … twice.”

    Both the Rams and Raiders departures from Los Angeles can be laid at the feet of the teams’ respective ownership, not the local fans. In the Rams case, the owner siphoned off funds that should have been used to put a better product on the field. When the team inevitably declined because the owner was unwilling to invest in the team, fans rightly stopped going to the games. That same owner then used “no fan support” as a justification for moving the team to a new publically-financed stadium in her home town.

    On the other hand, no one would accuse Al Davis of not wanting to win. That said, his reinvestment in the team was so badly spent that he found himself needing ever-larger sources of revenue, which he repeatedly attempted to get through various – here we go – publically-financed stadium schemes. Ultimately, he departed for Oakland when it appeared that that city would provide him the revenue he so desperately needed.

  49. yettyskills says: Jun 19, 2011 2:47 PM

    Its amazing to see how many people still fail to understand that Hockey is #1 in Buffalo, and has been since the French Connection in the 70′s.

    Also, people better get used to Toronto having their own team

  50. bradentonbuc says: Jun 19, 2011 2:48 PM

    So where will the LA Bills move after no one shows up for the games after a few years?

  51. newyorkgmen says: Jun 19, 2011 2:51 PM

    This would be like moving the Kings in the NBA. The Bills have a large and loyal fan base. Just because they haven’t been good in a while doesn’t mean they should relocate. Jacksonville is blacked out every week; ship them out to L.A. where people might care about how that team performs.

  52. yettyskills says: Jun 19, 2011 2:52 PM

    tashkalucy has ZERO clue

    Anyone who said “the bills will never leave” are fools

    Go ask Baltimore and Cleveland, two cities that had MUCH more to offer than Buffalo.

    Here is a fact, if the Bills didnt get Canadians busing over the boarder for Bills games, the Bills would have already been relocated.
    Nearly 20% of the Bills Gross is from Canadians

  53. EJ says: Jun 19, 2011 2:56 PM

    I agree.
    Besides, say there was a chance of Ralph selling the team…
    First in line is HOF QB Jim Kelly and whoever he decides to take on as a partner.
    Second, Billionare Tom Golisano, who grew up in neighboring Rochester, NY, would slide in there if Kelly decided he couldn’t do it.
    Jerry Sullivan is Mr. Negative here in Western NY, I wouldn’t put too much faith in his word.

    LA… no way!
    Buffalo, its here we’ll stay.
    Go Bills!!

  54. nahcouldntbethat says: Jun 19, 2011 2:59 PM

    The Bills are moving as soon a Wilson passes. His heirs don’t want the team and they certainly won’t take out the loans necessary to pay the estate taxes on it’s transfer to them after his death.

    There’s actually good reason to believe that Wilson will sell the team after this CBA is concluded. It doesn’t look like he’ll be able to make much of a profit under the new rules, if they are as described. Also he’s going to want to shield his heirs from the kind of hatred that Art Modell inspires in Cleveland to this day.

    He’ll probably come right out and say that he’d never have moved the team himself but he can’t afford to stay in a rigged game that favors the big markets and so he is selling while the Bills value is still high.

    I doubt the fans in Buffalo will think much the less of him as long as he doesn’t move the team himself. He’s been very good to them over the years and supported a local team and now the economics is saying no.

  55. jaypot23 says: Jun 19, 2011 2:59 PM

    How sad it would be to move a team from a city with such a great football fan base to a city where they could care less about football.

  56. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 3:01 PM

    @ tashkalucy:

    “Buffalo has supported that team and the NFL will not allow it to move.”

    Baltimore supported the Colts, Cleveland supported the Browns, Houston supported the Oilers. And your point is? The moves by these teams had little to do with fan support, but had lots to do with business decisions.

    “This is not MLB or the NBA where reality is that over half the franchises in those leagues are in trouble . . . because the league cannot sustain teams nationwide.”

    Read this: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/2/18/2000707/nfl-lockout-cba-2011-revenue-sharing

    “The problem is that this guy wants the current team owner to sell. Not likely.”

    Actually he stated it exactly. Mr Wilson has indicated the team would be sold upon his demise.

    “These people have no clue whatsoever as to how economies and businesses work.”

    I am not convinced you know anything about how the NFL business works.

    “People here are used to seeing entertainment on large screens, be it at a theatre, a bar/restaurant or a house.”

    That is the case in every city. Or don’t they sell big screens in upstate New York?

    “The question is. How much more can Roger and the rest of the league make in revenue? A lot less than you think.”

    Who to believe the NFL or you?

    “The proposed new stadium is for 64,000-74,000 seats. How many more tickets or suites would be sold in LA that are already sold in Buffalo? A good chance that Buffalo outsells LA.”

    Perhaps, but there are 164 suites at R. Wilson. How much do the suites go for there? How much could they get in LA? How big is the customer base for suites and club seats? Who has the bigger overall base? Look at it this way sell 72k tickets in a city of 17 million or sell 72k tickets in a county of 900K? (That means that 8% of the County needs to buy Bills tickets.)

    Want to know the key indicator? Read here: http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/25/most-valuable-nfl-teams-business-sports-football-valuations-10_land.html

    If a team is in the bottom 10, there should be concern.

    “You take away the top games being televised in the area now to show a .500 or worse team, and the locals turn off the TV and go somewhere else during gametime.”

    In the olden days perhaps. But I wonder how this works out in the DVR era?

  57. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 3:04 PM

    @ ramofsteel:

    “Just create 2 more teams if L.A. is so desperate.”

    LA is not desperate, if they were they would have done as so many other cities have and given away huge amounts of public money to build a stadium.

  58. pitch87mph says: Jun 19, 2011 3:07 PM

    The irony is that L.A.’s issues are political–NOT economic. I would argue the same is true in Buffalo. There are plenty of economic solutions available in Buffalo to make the Bills viable long-term (Niagara Falls stadium is but one) but the local (and international) politics are just ridiculous! It reminds me of the old adage about why the fights in academia are so vicious–because the stakes are so small!! Maybe when the stakes become a bit larger, the politicians and local special interests will actually permit economically viable solutions to move forward–and be willing to accept a smaller cut of a MUCH larger pie. Right now, they’re all fighting to keep their relative share–even though the pie is rapidly shrinking!

  59. frostbelt says: Jun 19, 2011 3:08 PM

    “L.A. should be nervous about getting the Bills.”

    LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Go Bills! :)

  60. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 3:09 PM

    @ pitch87mph:

    “Buffalo is shrinking fast–but it’s sells out games even when the team loses.”

    Well not really. in 2010, the team managed to only fill 87% of the stadium on average.

    “not to mention Al Davis litigation fight that will go along with it).”

    No fight. Courts have already found that Al does not own the LA rights. So much so that LA is designated by the league as the Chargers secondary market.

  61. ampatsisahypocrite says: Jun 19, 2011 3:17 PM

    One cool thing about the NFL is that it always allowed for teams in small markets like Green Bay and Buffalo. The NFL should see to it that these teams stay put, regardless of free-market cutthroat capitalism.

    That’s because the NFL itself gets socialized with its ridiculous government-allowed monopoly. This welfare should be passed on to its member teams — don’t give me this “increased revenue” garbage when the league itself gets a free ride from the government. If there was true competition, and a viable competitor league, the owners wouldn’t be pocketing their huge sums.

    I hate Cleveland, but it sucked when their team left. Fans in these rust-belt towns show a loyalty you’ll never get in La La Land. If the league can get welfare, so should places like Buffalo.

  62. rajbais says: Jun 19, 2011 3:18 PM

    The Bills and Vikings are two teams that were meant to stay in their original cities.

    But Los Angeles taking on anything Buffalonian or anything that has to do with the animal buffalo looks strange to me because L.A. needs something that blends with the Hollywood.

    Neither of those two do and that’s why the Bills should stay in Buffalo.

  63. 12is3times4 says: Jun 19, 2011 3:29 PM

    buffbill235: “Why should there even be a team in L.A?”

    It’s a massive untapped TV market, that’s why. So massive that it could produce a much bigger combined TV audience over the course of eight road games (even if all the home games get blacked out) than many existing NFL markets are capable of for all 16 games. And TV revenue is shared revenue. That’s why the NFL couldn’t care less about an L.A. team being able to actually fill its stadium.

    That said, the Vikings will likely get first crack at L.A. (if they don’t get a stadium deal in MN done first, of course), simply because after this season they’ll no longer have a stadium lease to complicate a move. The Bills are probably third in line behind the Chargers at most.

  64. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 3:42 PM

    tashkalucy says: “Silliness. . . . 1) Buffalo has supported that team and the NFL will not allow it to move . . . 2) The problem is that this guy wants the current team owner to sell. Not likely. Much more likely that 3 1) the NFL expands again — with LA and Toronto as 2 top markets to move into . . .

    1) I’ll bet the people in Cleveland thought that NFL “would not allow” Art Model to move his team, either
    2) In this case, there doesn’t seem to be much question that the current owner needs to be persuaded to sell – it’s been fairly well documented that Ralph Wilson has put the wheels in motion for the team to be sold upon his death.
    3) The chances of the NFL expanding are slim, at best. The current division structure is ideal with regard to scheduling, and – more importantly – the size of the next television contract is unlikely to grow enough to offset the addition of two teams to the revenue sharing agreement.

  65. gdeli says: Jun 19, 2011 3:43 PM

    la bills?

  66. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 3:51 PM

    tashkalucy says: The proposed new stadium is for 64,000-74,000 seats. How many more tickets or suites would be sold in LA that are already sold in Buffalo? A good chance that Buffalo outsells LA.”
    You may actually be right about that. Sort of. Buffalo might just put more people in the stadium, but if you think this is about individual fans – even en masse– then you haven’t been paying attention. There is a dearth of corporate support in Western New York, and not in the sense that there are companies that aren’t buying those all-important suites – that could be fixed with marketing – but that there simply aren’t enough companies in the region to do so. We can mourn the overcommercialization of sports all we want, but the unfortunate truth is that the corporate customers provide more cash than the individual fan. I haven’t taken the time to crunch the numbers, but I wouldn’t be shocked at all to find that a 50,000-seat stadium with luxury boxes in Los Angeles generates more money annually than a 90,000-seat stadium in Buffalo.

  67. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 3:54 PM

    mikeyhigs says: I’m sure the NFL would never allow it, but if Ralph Wilson wanted to really leave his legacy, he should sell shares of the Bills and make them publicly owned like the Packers. That’d keep the team in Buffalo.

    No one (here, at least) knows what’s going on in Ralph Wilson’s head, but it certainly doesn’t care a great deal about his legacy. And even if he did, surely you are aware the NLF ownership rules explicitly prohibit publically-owned teams. The Packers are grandfathered in, but your suggestion would require a radical change in the way the NFL does business, and the NFL has zero incentive to implement such a change.

  68. profootballwalk says: Jun 19, 2011 4:10 PM

    Any chance they could just move Buffalo to Cali?

  69. backindasaddle says: Jun 19, 2011 4:14 PM

    I see it as very difficult for Buffalo to keep the Bills once Ol’ Ralph is gone. I don’t mean to slam the people of Buffalo because I’ve been there many times and they’re very nice, good folks. However, Buffalo is about the most undesirable place in the entire continental United States to be. It never stops snowing and I think they get about one month per year that there is not a threat of snow. I think they ought to just declare Buffalo, Niagra Falls and Rochester permanently “closed” and relocate everybody to anywhere else…. except Detroit.

    I can definitely see the Bills moving after Ralph is gone. I don’t see as avoidable given the regional and demographical realities. I think it also will be a little bit sad in the sense that the Bills have always been there, it’s the only major league franchise they have, and there are a lot of good people in Buffalo that will be seriously bummed out when their team is gone.

  70. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 4:20 PM

    rajbais says: “The Bills and Vikings are two teams that were meant to stay in their original cities . . . But Los Angeles taking on anything Buffalonian or anything that has to do with the animal buffalo looks strange to me because L.A. needs something that blends with the Hollywood . . . Neither of those two do and that’s why the Bills should stay in Buffalo.”

    I hope that this is an attempt at humor, raj. Any team that relocates to Los Angeles will necessarily abandon all aspects of its former identity. You don’t have to worry about the Los Angeles Vikings or the Los Angeles Bills. I’m sure NFL Properties already has 5 or 6 team concepts lined up. I just hope that we as fans get a vote, so we don’t wind up with something like the “L.A. X-Men.”

  71. backindasaddle says: Jun 19, 2011 4:21 PM

    Sorry…I forgot about the Buffalo Sabres.

  72. frostbelt says: Jun 19, 2011 4:44 PM

    The Bills are bigger nationally than the Sabres and The Bills are bigger in Buffalo, NY (I should know – i live here) – just a heads up. NFL > NHL ALL DAY… EVERY DAY.

  73. spillertime21 says: Jun 19, 2011 5:12 PM

    There has been talk of the bills moving since their superbowl years. If Ralph Wilson wanted to sell the team to the highest bidder just to relocate the franchise he would have done it by now. He isnt even from buffalo, if was just looking for the huge profit we’d be talking about the St. Louis, Houston, Toronto, or Memphis Bills right now. While mr. Wilson my not be the greatest owner in the league, I do believe he cares about the people of western ny and because of this he has not sold the team. Because of his other business ventures he and his family would still be extremely wealthy had he not formed the bills in ’60.
    Unlike the new breed of superstar owners like Snyder and jones, Wilson has never been in it for the media attention (most people don’t even know how he bailed out al Davis and the raiders in the early years of the afl just to keep the league afloat, because he doesn’t talk about it). I really believe that the reason the bills were not one of the 5 teams named by AEG is because they have not even talked to Wilson. Knowing wilsons history it would not be surprising to learn the he quietly made a deal with local investors with the specific interest of keeping the bills in wny.

  74. trickbunny says: Jun 19, 2011 5:14 PM

    If the Bills were to move to LA, the name would definitely have to be changed. “Los Angeles Bills” makes about as much sense as “New York 49ers” would.

    I vote for “Los Angeles Pornstars.” No? How about “Los Angeles Dayplanners”? “Los Angeles Augmented Breasts”? “Los Angeles Dental Veneers”?

    There’s gotta be something…

  75. melonnhead says: Jun 19, 2011 5:27 PM

    Ol’ Ralph Wilson would move the team now if he thought that it wouldn’t cause a 24/7 pissfest on his grave when he dies. He’s doing the next best thing. Exporting games to Toronto.

  76. itsthemelman82 says: Jun 19, 2011 5:35 PM

    That would absolutely suck if they moved the Bills out of Buffalo. There’s a team in San Diego that would be perfect for LA.

  77. BrownsTown says: Jun 19, 2011 5:36 PM

    This would be a shame. Buffalo has one of the best fan bases, “pound-for-pound,” in the NFL.

    As a Browns fan, I can sympathize with this speculation. Should this travesty ever occur, know that we Browns fans extend the official invite to Bills Nation……same as you extended your hand to us when that guy on his deathbed moved our team to Baltimore.

    Having seen the tailgating scene in Orchard Park, we have a lot in common.

  78. footballfan292 says: Jun 19, 2011 5:38 PM

    Selling out a stadium does not mean much these days. That’s pennies in a bucket in the grand scheme of things. The issue is TV money. And Buffalo is a shrinking TV market. Which means the long-term profit will shrink even if every Buffalo fan keeps their season ticket for the next 20 years and every seat in the stadium is sold.

    Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego, and St. Louis are not shrinking markets. They may have attendance issues, but their populations are high enough to demand a larger TV contract than Buffalo can.

  79. sharkcatcher says: Jun 19, 2011 5:46 PM

    We don’t want then team that lost four superbowls in row..no thanks.

  80. clintonrb says: Jun 19, 2011 6:11 PM

    they did move the nba’s kings..from kc to sac town

    on another note-does ralph wilson and the rest of the family give a damn about the people of buffalo?
    im shocked that they have no contigency plan, no succession of ownership in place..nothing.. the least he could do was make a deal where the new owner had to keep the team in buffalo for a guaranteed number of years after they buy the bills..(think ewing kauffman and the kansas city royals)

    the people of buffalo love that team, theyve followed this team through the OJ years, the 80s,the highs of the Jim Kelly era and the new lows of the 21st century version of the Bills..someone in buffalo needs to step up and get a plan in place ,talk to ralph and get a real contigency plan in place, get partial ownership now so that the foot will be in the door and finish the process of complete ownership after ralph passes away..

    people of buffalo- is there anyone in town who wants to buy the team and could actually do it? whats the word on the street in upstate new york in regards to the subject matter?

    buffalo without the bills would never be the same and the bills in los angelas would be a shell of what they once were..there would be no support in los angelas after consecutive years of 2 ,3 and 4 win seasons…

    ralph wilson and politicians/movers and shakers of buffalo get something figured out now..ralph is old and at his age could pass away next week…

    and for all the people saying it would never happen-
    this is what fans in cleveland, st. louis, oakland, los angelas, houston said as well..anything’s possible

  81. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 19, 2011 6:32 PM

    trickbunny says: “If the Bills were to move to LA, the name would definitely have to be changed . . . I vote for “Los Angeles Pornstars.” No? How about “Los Angeles Dayplanners”? “Los Angeles Augmented Breasts”? “Los Angeles Dental Veneers”? There’s gotta be something…”

    OK, I like this game, even though you’re trolling . . . I’ll play.

    Pornstars? If you’re going with this, it really should be the San Fernando Pornstars, but I’ll bet you’re the kind of guy who’s OK with the football team in Arlington calling itself the Dallas Cowboys, and New Jersey letting NYC claim their teams.

    Dayplanners? Don’t be silly — everyone here over the age of 5 has a smartphone for that kind of thing. We haven’t used dayplanners in 10 years.

    Augmented Breasts & Dental Veneers? Well, you get some points for accuracy, I suppose, but you’d be leaving out a whole range of personal enhancements. Let’s think inclusive and call the team the L.A. Nip/Tucks.

    What else ya got?

  82. nationalmediacansuckit says: Jun 19, 2011 6:35 PM

    canetic says:
    Jun 19, 2011 12:35 PM
    Jacksonville should be in LA, not Buffalo
    ————————————————–
    And you should go choke yourself.

  83. kjeldormage says: Jun 19, 2011 6:38 PM

    As a long time Lions fan living in Western New York I stand as a pretty impartial viewer in this.

    With that being said, there is rumblings about an ownership coalition being formed by Jim Kelly to keep the Bills in Western New York which when pressed he is always confidently brushing aside. It also helps that Tom Golisano just sold the Sabres after making record profits again ;-).

    What would get the ball in motion was as a couple user’s have already suggested, a Bills stadium that is not closer to Toronto, but one closer to Rochester. While Erie County has been going through really tough times, Monroe county hasn’t seen that kind of hardship. Also Rochester is home to many tech companies and the king of all grocery chains, Wegmans. Not to mention Rochester main businesses of Kodak and Xerox (even though Xerox does not have their corporate HQ their anymore). Fact is that white collar club seating needs will not fly in Toronto but Rochesterians are more apt to oblige.

    When you see the stream of cars that go to Bills games they are coming from the east anyway, why not build a Batavia stadium so that Buffalo and Rochester can strengthen their regional ties? It’s already working with Buffalo chains, (Anchor Bar, Mighty Taco) why not continue the trend started when they moved training camp to St John Fisher and get a stadium closer to rochester.

  84. clintonrb says: Jun 19, 2011 6:40 PM

    cappa662 says:
    Jun 19, 2011 12:57 PM
    If you can’t compete financially, you can’t compete. Buffalo doesn’t have the resources to put together a good team. Just move to la.
    ————————————————————
    you obviously know jack squat about nfl football..
    this isnt like major league baseball…….

    they’ve been terrible more due to the fact that they’ve drafted terribly in recent years (aaron maybin, marshawn lynch, james hardy, chris ellis..well you get the idea

  85. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 6:47 PM

    recon163,

    I’m flattered.

    Did you know that in LA most people are from elsewhere.

    If you drive through the city any given day you’ll see NFL merchandise worn all over, from ALL teams.

    If you think the NFL is not raking in money in LA from TV ratings, Direct-TV subscriptions and merchandise, you’re crazy. The NFL is doing fine there.

    And they’re going to risk that by putting a team in there?

    Let me tell you something about LA people and their attitude towards the NFL……

    As far as they’e concerned, if the NFL wants to move in and set up shop, that’s fine by them. But for 15 years every time the NFL has talked about coming into the region they expect the public to pay a good portion of the cost of a stadium, as well as grant outrageous tax breaks. Unlike other American cities that have been blackmailed by the NFL into paying a good portion of the cost of new facilities, LA people have said forget it. They have a bankrupt state and city, and don’t need to help billionaires and millionaires to bring a business to town. When Burger King wants to come into the 2nd largest market in America, the taxpayers don’t help pay to build a restaurants for them…..as well as giving out tax beaks because the chain is providing some minimum wage jobs.

    And as for moving – the NFL has some major issues with Congress since the Cleveland Brown debacle – when a lousy team that was selling out almost all games was moved because the owner got a cherry of a deal elsewhere. If Buffalo were not supporting the Bills then fine, they’re up for a move. But they sell out most of their games, and no matter how many people leave the inner city for the suburbs and beyond (a misconception of all rustbelt areas) most people have transportation that can get them to a stadium in a hour at the most — less time then it takes LA people to buck traffic and get downtown to where the new stadium is proposed.

    As far as discussing business, AEG’s Tim Leiweke is trying to build the stadium by floating private bonds for $350 million because the public will not allow the politicians to use their tax money. Here’s a real clue — after a 30 year run the bond market is about to fall out for at least a decade. The Fed is artificially keeping interest rates low trying to spur business to borrow, and those low rates do not keep up with inflation. Consequently, people are moving their US dollars into gold, silver, the Swiss Franc, the Australian dollar and the Canadian dollar for over 10 years….you ever read anything but the silly sports pages?

    Call me when Mr. Leiweke sells out his bond offering, and let me know if NFL owners want to stand up to the public outcry over a team that is supported and profitable being moved for no good reason. Coming on the heels of the NFL owners having this lockout, expect the public — whose standard of living has been doing down steadily for decades — to be pretty turned off by this sort if irresponsibility.

    In business everything is risk/reward, and the risk of moving an existing team into an am LA market that NFL owners are already making a fortune on is simply not worth the risk.

  86. murraysons says: Jun 19, 2011 6:51 PM

    Screw LA and their fair weather fans. Think of the kings in hockey, usc football, etc. 3 years of losing and the “fans” will bail. Buffalo needs that team.

  87. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 7:11 PM

    P.S.

    And did you know that there is another group that is building a stadium in City Of Industry with hopes of getting TWO NFL teams as well.

    Tow groups wanting to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build stadiums in the worst economy in America since the Great Depression with no team to play in them.

    This is actually hilarious, and so many of you are talking like this is a done deal.

  88. henrypuppyhead says: Jun 19, 2011 7:29 PM

    ampatsisahypocrite says: Jun 19, 2011 3:17 PM

    One cool thing about the NFL is that it always allowed for teams in small markets like Green Bay and Buffalo. The NFL should see to it that these teams stay put, regardless of free-market cutthroat capitalism.

    —————————————

    Unfortunately, the setup that keeps the Packers in Green Bay will never be allowed again by the NFL. Buffalo would be a prime place for a fan based ownership model like Green Bay. The investment in the team is not only good for the whole region but the overall sense of ownership builds even stronger bonds between the team and the fanbase.

    Buffalo would be putting better teams on the field as well, plain and simple.

  89. jvillenole says: Jun 19, 2011 7:51 PM

    @newyorkgmen

    “Jacksonville is blacked out every week”

    Shake yourself, moron. Maybe you should do some research before you make statements that are 100% false.

    Once again, the notion that Jacksonville does not support the Jaguars is totally false, and is a myth perpetuated by the media, and morons like you.

  90. pftstory says: Jun 19, 2011 7:54 PM

    The world will keep spinning without a team in LA. We’ve survived this long, so what’s the big deal? Let’s just keep chasing the wind predicting when and which team will end up in LA. Its like that end of the world guy. His 3rd guess in now Oct 12th or something like that. Well eventually he will be right and the world will end. Is he going to say I told you so when we all meet in the afterlife? Just like all the people predicting which team will move to LA on this site. Has PFT predicted every team yet? When it happens they will be able to say “See just like we predicted!”
    Meanwhile don’t the TV viewers in LA get a double header weekend each weekend? 3 Sunday afternoon games every weekend? doesn’t should like a bad deal to me.

    But I’ve reached the point of just put a team there already. I’m sick of this endless need to speculate what team will go there.

  91. arcaero says: Jun 19, 2011 8:15 PM

    Agree with most here…

    What’s so great about L.A. as an NFL market anyhow? TV dollars? LA folks just don’t support an NFL franchise like that…it’s been proven over and over again…

    Kinda like Miami and the Heat…what’s so great about spending your Sunday afternoon crammed into an overpriced ADVERTISING BLITZ when you could be at the beach or boating/fishing/hunting or playing sports or laying in the sun in your own back yard??

    If I was a banker I would NOT approve that stadium loan….

  92. billsfan1 says: Jun 19, 2011 8:46 PM

    Whatever happened to that fund manager or whatever that said he is putting team together…..and now would be a hell of a time for golisano and pegula to work together again……say what u want buffalo haters but the NFL is a little bit better when Buffalo is around and doing well……although its been a while

  93. philtration says: Jun 19, 2011 9:04 PM

    canetic says: Jun 19, 2011 12:35 PM

    Jacksonville should be in LA, not Buffalo.
    ======================================

    Jacksonville should not be in L.A. either.
    Actually no NFL team should ever play in L.A. again.

    They had their chances and they did not care.
    Oklahoma City, Vegas or San Antonio would support a team in a heartbeat.

  94. xstaticonradio says: Jun 19, 2011 9:04 PM

    Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego, and St. Louis are not shrinking markets. They may have attendance issues, but their populations are high enough to demand a larger TV contract than Buffalo can.

    ————

    How can they demand large TV contracts when every game is blacked out?

  95. jutts says: Jun 19, 2011 9:09 PM

    If LA is such a great place. why have all the other NFL teams failed? My guess the fans in are not that interested.

  96. paulredskin says: Jun 19, 2011 9:17 PM

    that leaves n.y without a football team..

  97. mhs8031 says: Jun 19, 2011 9:21 PM

    I am a Panther fan, but I can tell you that my perception is that Buffalo has great fans. The economy up there is a bit rough, but LA (with 10 times the population) has shown disinterest when the economy was booming. The people of Buffalo care about the Bills. I will protest if they take the Bills from NY.

  98. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 9:36 PM

    “If I was a banker I would NOT approve that stadium loan….”

    If they had a loan they wouldn’t be floating out a bond issue.

  99. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 9:45 PM

    @ tashkalucy:

    “I’m flattered.”

    You are? Wow you must have some pretty low standards then.

    “Did you know that in LA most people are from elsewhere.”

    You know I have lived in LA for 48 years and I never noticed that. (Sarcasm lite.)

    “If you drive through the city any given day you’ll see NFL merchandise worn all over, from ALL teams.”

    Were you here during the late 70′s and through the 80′s when the place was awash in Rams and Raiders gear? But in today’s world that is immaterial as folks wear sports team gear as both a sign of fandom and as fashion. Please keep up. (Sarcasm heavy.)

    “If you think the NFL is not raking in money in LA from TV ratings, Direct-TV subscriptions and merchandise, you’re crazy. The NFL is doing fine there.”

    Yes they are. And they will do better with a team in LA. The NFL knows this and that is why they are exploring their options. Who to believe the NFL or you? And you have access to Nielsen ratings, market forecasts, and audience data? Yeah I didn’t think so.

    “And they’re going to risk that by putting a team in there?”

    What risk? Will Direct Tv subscriptions drop? Nope. Will TV ratings drop? Nope. Will an owner receive a surge of revenues? Yes. Will the league tap into an un-jerseyed market in LA? Yes.

    “Let me tell you something about LA people and their attitude towards the NFL……”

    After living here for 48 years I would love to hear all about my hometown, please tell me.

    “As far as they’e concerned, if the NFL wants to move in and set up shop, that’s fine by them.”

    True.

    “But for 15 years every time the NFL has talked about coming into the region they expect the public to pay a good portion of the cost of a stadium, as well as grant outrageous tax breaks.”

    How is that different from any other city the NFL has done business with?

    Earlier you posted: “The area doesn’t need the NFL and that’s why there has been no move by the locals to locate a team there in 15 or so years.”

    Which is also a falsehood. There have been numerous attempts to bring the NFL back to LA. You really don’t know much about this do you?

    “Unlike other American cities that have been blackmailed by the NFL into paying a good portion of the cost of new facilities, LA people have said forget it.”

    That is true.

    “They have a bankrupt state and city, and don’t need to help billionaires and millionaires to bring a business to town.”

    Even when we were flush with cash we said no.

    “And as for moving – the NFL has some major issues with Congress since the Cleveland Brown debacle – when a lousy team that was selling out almost all games was moved because the owner got a cherry of a deal elsewhere.”

    Yeah that stopped Cleveland from moving alright. And if you think Congress is going to intervene well good for you, but it just shows your ignorance. Oh I am sure someone will produce some ‘fan protection’ legislation and it will die in committee. But let’s face it there are 32 markets in the NFL. NFL fans didn’t fall on their swords for Baltimore or Cleveland or Houston. But you think they will revolt for Buffalo? Sure…..you go right ahead and believe that.

    “As far as discussing business, AEG’s Tim Leiweke is trying to build the stadium by floating private bonds for $350 million because the public will not allow the politicians to use their tax money.”

    Not so. He is asking the City to float a $300 million dollar bond to cover the expenses of expanding the convention center. Leiweke has stated that AEG would back the bonds so there would be no risk to the city. But neither he nor AEG are selling bonds.

    Are you sure you know anything about this project?

    “Here’s a real clue — after a 30 year run the bond market is about to fall out for at least a decade.”

    Seeing as how wrong you are about everything else, I’m buying bonds!

    ” . . .you ever read anything but the silly sports pages?”

    Yes, but I do a better job at the comprehension part.

    “In business everything is risk/reward, and the risk of moving an existing team into an am LA market that NFL owners are already making a fortune on is simply not worth the risk.”

    Sure it is. First of all the NFL doesn’t move the team, the owner does. The NFL has approval authority over the move, but it will be an individual owner who will determine if the risk is worth the reward. You really don’t know how the NFL does business do you?

    The league will also most likely receive a transfer fee from the moving owner of over $200 million. Just over $6 million per owner. BTW: The moving team would have no problem getting this money from marketing partners in LA.

    Let’s see, Buffalo ranks 28 in the Forbes valuations at $799m. The league and numerous analysts have noted that a move to LA would make a franchise worth well over $1 billion dollars. That means that new owner would see an increase on their investment of over $200 million simply by moving.

    Not to mention that the LA naming right market has already been valued at over $700 million for a 20 year deal. Now throw in the potential suites and club seats sales, non-shared revenue of course, and a new owner will be at above the Cowboys in revenue. (Cowboys are ranked at #1.)

    Like most simple fans you think this all about regular seats and filled stadiums, it isn’t. It is about revenue and potential revenue sources. You should read up on this subject, it would help lessen the emotional blow of losing your team when the time comes.

  100. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 9:55 PM

    @ tashkalucy:

    “And did you know that there is another group that is building a stadium in City Of Industry with hopes of getting TWO NFL teams as well.”

    You mean the Majestic Realty project at Grand Crossing that has already received all the environmental approvals and financing needed to build a stadium?

    The one that is hoped to built on 600 acres of land with over 19,000 parking spots and an entertainment district?

    The one that Ed Roski introduced in 2008 and had approved by the CoI in 2009? And the one that was also received the blessing of its neighboring cities, except for one in 2009? The one that was sued by two groups, the City of Walnut and a group if private citizens call CAS only to see the city settle and the CAS suit overriden?

    The one that had Assemblyman Hall introduced the environmental exemption bill (AB X3 81) and shepherded through until it was signed by the Gov?

    The one that has a $150 million dollar bond for infrastructure that will be paid off via parking fees?

    The one that will cost $800 million to build and is 100% privately funded?

    The one that is shovel ready once a team commits?

    Nope don’t know anything about it. Tell me what you know, this ought to be interesting.

  101. recon163 says: Jun 19, 2011 9:56 PM

    @ arcaero:

    “If I was a banker I would NOT approve that stadium loan….”

    And that is why you are not a banker.

  102. andrewfbrowne says: Jun 19, 2011 10:20 PM

    The irony is that if the Bills leave Buffalo there is no team that plays any home games in the State of New York.

    LA is the senator’s son of our country, even though they have lost two teams already, because it is tinseltown they will get another team and a city like Buffalo that lives and dies with Bills football will not get another team once Ralph passes away.

    It will be great in LA for a couple of years and then like everything that senator’s sons have it will lose its shine and they will move on to somewhere else.

  103. suuupahstah says: Jun 19, 2011 10:35 PM

    @newyorkgmen : “Jacksonville is blacked out every week; ship them out to L.A. where people might care about how that team performs”

    News flash idiot… We didn’t have a single black out last season. Before I hear the “Tarps” comments please do your research on that aswell… Without them we’d have the 5th largest stadium capacity(which is needed for UF/UGA & Gator Bowl) and even with them we still seat more than 11 other franchises. I’m so sick of uneducated people just spitting out “knowledge” thats passed on by journalist who have no clue.

    As for what team should move, I really hope no team relocates. I know what the Jaguars mean to me and I wouldn’t wish that on any fan. Screw LA!

  104. golonger says: Jun 19, 2011 10:45 PM

    tashkalucy – you are either seriously delusional or an idiot.

    First of all…you can make any argument you want about why the NFL should NOT be in LA….but, bottom line is…they will be…..whether you think it makes sense or not. Also, the NFL has made it clear they WANT to be……no need to argue this point further.

    Also, your ridiculous comment about the NFL stopping the Bills from moving…sorry, they cannot….as others have pointed out. If the Bills want to move….nothing is stopping them.

    Get a grip!!!

  105. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 10:46 PM

    recon163,

    Are you a political consultant?

    Someone says “2 + 2 = 4″ and you run past multiplication tables, geometry and calculus.

    To take something someone said and extrapolate a bunch of nonsense that you attribute to them. I also notice that you have that Internet putdown mentality where you tell others how wrong they are, but you volunteer nothing of value for fear someone without a life will come on and do the same to you.

    Let me be clear — there will be no NFL team in LA by 2016, and very probably not by 2020.

    Go get yourself worked up about having Jennifer Aniston call you up to say that’s you’re what’s missing in her life and she needs you to move in with her and what’s hers is yours. That has moe chance of happening that an NFL team in LA.

  106. tashkalucy says: Jun 19, 2011 10:48 PM

    recon163,

    Yes, my standards must be low to think that you spent all this time spinning what I wrote.

    I’ll bet you live on these boards 24/7/365.

    Why does intelligence threaten you so?

    You live in LA. See a shrink.

  107. monkeesfan says: Jun 19, 2011 11:08 PM

    This piece makes no sense.

    1 – There’s no audience for a team in LA, and that shoots down the earning potential argument used against keeping the Bills in Buffalo.

    2 – These paper stadiums for LA are never going to get built, not in a region in even worse economic shape than Western NY (and gripped by the same tax-and-waste idiot-ology that has chased businesses out of Western NY) and not in a region that has shown ZERO desire for a team/

    3 – The piece assumes a new buyer for the Bills won’t be someone like Jim Kelly or Jeremy Jacobs or some combination that sees that the Bills still have a strong fanbase in that region, a stronger one than LA has.

    If the Bills move, it will be to Toronto, despite whoever’s protestations that they don’t want a team Buffalo can lay some claim to.

  108. jpmelon says: Jun 19, 2011 11:23 PM

    We should hope Toronto gets the Bills and they play two games in Buffalo? Are you on crack?

    If the Bills go to Toronto, I’m no longer a fan. The Bills are my team because they represent my city, not because the Bills are so damn great.

    I was worried twhen I learned that the Bills were not listed in the 5 teams that were contacted, because I know that this is the kind of move that gets done behind the curtains, then surprises everyone…..but I’m fairly outraged by your suggestion to hope for a move to Toronto.

    There is a group of locals who want the team when Ralph passes away….I don’t know if they can be the highest bidder or not, but there are some local “rich-guys” who want to keep the team local.

  109. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 12:17 AM

    @ tashkalucy:

    “Are you a political consultant?”

    Nope.

    “Someone says “2 + 2 = 4″ and you run past multiplication tables, geometry and calculus . . .To take something someone said and extrapolate a bunch of nonsense that you attribute to them.”

    Not at all. Took your words at face value and argued back. Is that an issue?

    “I also notice that you have that Internet putdown mentality where you tell others how wrong they are, but you volunteer nothing of value for fear someone without a life will come on and do the same to you.”

    Seems to me that you are describing yourself. I gave you the correct facts. If they were wrong you are free to counter argue. But you can’t. What value did you offer? Misstatements and incorrect facts? Oh yeah that is value alright.

    “Let me be clear — there will be no NFL team in LA by 2016, and very probably not by 2020.”

    And you base this on? Oh of course your deep understanding of the business of the NFL. Which as can be seen you have none.

    “Yes, my standards must be low to think that you spent all this time spinning what I wrote.”

    Actually not long at all. I know it may take you a bit to develop a thought and actually try to write it, but I don’t have that problem.

    “I’ll bet you live on these boards 24/7/365.”

    Nope that is impossible.

    “Why does intelligence threaten you so?”

    It doesn’t. But you haven’t displayed any so ……

    “You live in LA. See a shrink.”

    No need to. I am very well adjusted and don’t take business moves, like an NFL team leaving, as personal. You know like you do.

  110. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 12:22 AM

    @ monkeesfan:

    “1 – There’s no audience for a team in LA, and that shoots down the earning potential argument used against keeping the Bills in Buffalo.”

    And you know this how? Did you ever stop to think that the NFL does a thing called market research to gauge how good or bad a market is? Did you engage in a similar exercise to make your determination? Nope? Yeah I didn’t think so.

    “2 – These paper stadiums for LA are never going to get built, not in a region in even worse economic shape than Western NY (and gripped by the same tax-and-waste idiot-ology that has chased businesses out of Western NY) and not in a region that has shown ZERO desire for a team”

    You do know these stadium proposals are being fronted by private business as a private business venture. And they have money, lots of it. Look up Ed Roski and Phillip Anschutz.

    “3 – The piece assumes a new buyer for the Bills won’t be someone like Jim Kelly or Jeremy Jacobs or some combination that sees that the Bills still have a strong fanbase in that region, a stronger one than LA has.”

    And you assume they will be the winning bid. No guarantee there.

  111. johnsticle says: Jun 20, 2011 12:42 AM

    I see Jax moving before Buffalo. I live here in Jacksonville (although I’m not a Jags fan, I’m a Vikings fan) and yes… there’s a HUGE following for the Jags… but it doesn’t seem like the CITY wants them. It’s complicated to understand until you see it for yourself.

  112. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 1:17 AM

    To think Ralph Wilson doesn’t actually have a plan is completely absurd. He has spent countless hours and dollars the last 50 years keeping the team in Buffalo. IMO, I’m sure he wants to leave a legacy and be remembered for something great other than being the owner of a team that went to 4 Super Bowls and lost. That something would be having a plan to keep the team in his beloved Buffalo.

  113. goawayeverybody says: Jun 20, 2011 1:22 AM

    As a Los Angeleno I would welcome the Bills even less than I would welcome the Vikings. I would be much more interested in the Jaguars.

  114. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 1:30 AM

    keepitsimplestoopid says: Jun 19, 2011 2:01 PM

    Build a new stadium halfway between Rochester and Buffalo right off the Thruway and make the team fully regional.
    _____________________________________
    I’ve been saying this for a long time. Batavia would be a perfect place for a stadium. You could put it right off the thruway. There is a ton of farm land out there and could build a great stadium with tons of parking. Just like the Ralph.

  115. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 1:44 AM

    @yettyskills says: Jun 19, 2011 2:47 PM
    ______________________________
    you couldn’t be any more wrong. you see people wearing buffalo bills apparel all year around. the Bills are top dog in this area and it’s not even close.

  116. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 20, 2011 2:10 AM

    Thank you, recon163

    I’m referring to your much needed rebuttal of tashkalucy’s points. It’s nice to see another voice of reason in this largely unreasonable thread.

  117. androk23 says: Jun 20, 2011 2:25 AM

    Let’s stop comparing the Bills to the Sacremento Kings please. That team was originally stolen from WNY. They were the Rochester Royals, before they moved to Cincy, then Kansas, then Sacremento.

    As a Rochesterian, I really don’t care about the Kings. However, if the Bills leave Buffalo, the NFL will have an entire region revolt against their league, I guarantee that. They are getting $$$ from LA either way, the revenue from WNY will be slashed if the Bills leave. We are die-hard, we would be bitter, and we would not give the NFL another dime.

  118. smokim says: Jun 20, 2011 7:40 AM

    “johnsticle says:
    I see Jax moving before Buffalo. I live here in Jacksonville (although I’m not a Jags fan, I’m a Vikings fan) and yes… there’s a HUGE following for the Jags… but it doesn’t seem like the CITY wants them. It’s complicated to understand until you see it for yourself.”

    Ain’t gonna happen… The Vikings will move to LA before the Jags. If you live in Jax then support the Jags or else move. All Jax .. All Jags..

  119. exboomer says: Jun 20, 2011 9:05 AM

    Anyone who thinks the Bills should move to LA knows about as much as ESPN does which isn’t saying much. No one know if Ralph Wilson really does have a sucession plan in mind or not. As was mentioned by another poster he likes to play things close to the vest. And Jim Kelly has said numerous times he has investors lined up who will keep the team in Buffalo indefinately so I expect to see the LA Vikings or the LA Jaguars long before anyone sees the LA Bills.

  120. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 9:22 AM

    @ NoHomeTeam:

    “It’s nice to see another voice of reason in this largely unreasonable thread.”

    I find that the level of ignorance on the subject of team moves is as expected. It is a complicated issue and not one even the most rabid fan is knowledgeable with. But what is amazing is how upset folks get when the facts are pointed out.

    The fact is LA is a great market with lots of money. The only thing missing is a stadium to take advantage of it. The Coliseum and the Rose Bowl both lack the revenue generating amenities that the NFL and, more importantly, a potential owner needs.

    If anybody is interested read “Sports, Jobs, and Taxes’, ‘Playing the Field’ and ‘Glory For Sale’ to understand the business of sports franchise moves.

    Personally I believe a team will move and it will be a team within the bottom ten of the Forbes valuations. In the case of JVille, Buffalo, and Oakland the only thing keeping them in their present situations is the team owner.

    Mr. Weaver is happy in JVille, Mr. Wilson has never seen a move he liked, and Mr. Davis is too prickly to be dealt with. With a change of ownership in any of those cities and they become the most likely candidates for a move.

    Time will tell. After 15 years and despite what AEG says, there is no rush.

  121. johnsticle says: Jun 20, 2011 9:34 AM

    @smokin

    Nope lol I’ve been a Vikings fan my entire life and plan on keeping it that way. I was born in to it.

    I moved to Jacksonville only cause of the weather and to stay with my dad till I’m in the Navy.

    And by the way, it’s that kind of mentality that gives football fans a bad name. I suggest you live with the fact there’s a Vikings fan in Jacksonville (by the way, there’s more than just me).

    If the Jags don’t have a successful season (and by that I mean make it to the play offs instead of blow it in the last game) soon… I definitely see them moving. The Jags didn’t put Jax on the map, Naval Station Mayport and NAS Jax did. The city doesn’t need a failing football team.

    Seriously, if your arena football team has more wins than your NFL team… you got problems.

  122. duck2002 says: Jun 20, 2011 9:49 AM

    The only way, I see Buffalo keeping its team is do what Green Bay did, sell the team to the city and the fans, I’m no Bills fan but don’t want to see them lose a team, and you know the NFL will not give them a new team, the ball is in the city of
    Buffalo and it’s fans cort

  123. rabidbillsfan says: Jun 20, 2011 9:49 AM

    @recon613

    Your arguments are skewed. There may be intrest in L.A. for a team, but it’s definetly not the Bills. There would be no support for a team moving so far. There are plenty of backers here in Buffalo to keep the team here. No matter what the bid, a large amount of minority intrest here in this region would step up and match it dollar for dollar. I think Ralph knows what he’s doing, he would rather just keep it to himself than let the whole world know. Also, to the guys who would put a stadium in the middle of no where. Are you serious? Who would benefit from that? The reason Sports franchise’s are so important is that it helps the city it is in. How do you expect that stadium to impact the local bussinesses? It wouldn’t, there’s nothing there. Some of the nicest property, eaterys, and entertainment are centralized near the Ralph. If that goes away, so does the rest of it.

  124. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 10:24 AM

    @ rabidbillsfan:

    “Your arguments are skewed. There may be intrest in L.A. for a team, but it’s definetly not the Bills.”

    I never said the interest was expressly for the Bills.

    “There would be no support for a team moving so far.”

    Not following you here. Are you arguing that mileage plays a part in the determination to move? I would say, probably not.

    “There are plenty of backers here in Buffalo to keep the team here. No matter what the bid, a large amount of minority intrest here in this region would step up and match it dollar for dollar.”

    Perhaps, but keep in mind that the majority owner must own 33% of the team so the ever increasing minority ownership hinges on a single individuals will to pony up a third of the overall amount. Let’s assume a bid of 1 billion, that means the majority owner would have to put up $333 million. Not that it is impossible, just want to point that out in case you were thinking that a a bunch of guys would each own 10% of the Bills.

    “The reason Sports franchise’s are so important is that it helps the city it is in. How do you expect that stadium to impact the local bussinesses? It wouldn’t, there’s nothing there. Some of the nicest property, eaterys, and entertainment are centralized near the Ralph. If that goes away, so does the rest of it.”

    Their argument is valid. The region would save the Bills by moving closer to the economic center of WNY. The businesses presently close to the stadium could simply move closer to the new stadium. I actually believe the idea proposed here of moving the team closer to Rochester is a good idea that keeps the Bills viable.

  125. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 10:25 AM

    @ duck2002:

    “The only way, I see Buffalo keeping its team is do what Green Bay did, sell the team to the city and the fans, I’m no Bills fan but don’t want to see them lose a team, and you know the NFL will not give them a new team, the ball is in the city of
    Buffalo and it’s fans cort”

    NFL ownership rules preclude this. Nice try though.

  126. tformation says: Jun 20, 2011 11:54 AM

    Sorry, Buffalo fans, but god forbid we go to 33 or 34 teams. The talent pool is shallow enough right now. 32 teams works better for playoffs, team parity, etc. No one is seriously talking expansion now, and I can’t see it happening within the next 5 years.

    If it’s any consolation, the Bills are a dark horse for the L.A. sweepstakes. The Vikes are the most likely to move, probably in 2012 or 2013. When that happens, there will be a ton of backlash against teams with history like the Vikes moving across country. After that backlash, L.A. will either not get a second team after the Vikes move (blackouts, any one?), or one of the former L.A. teams currently in California will move back instead.

    Now, the Bills moving to Toronto… that seems more likely to me… established fan base… meets the NFL’s desire to become a global league…

  127. smokim says: Jun 20, 2011 12:00 PM

    johnsticle:

    Do you really think the Vikings, Bills and other cold weather teams will be viable if their season ticket holders keep leaving their cities to move to Jax because of the weather?

    I moved here because of the weather, because pro football is here and this is a growing area. I got a pretty good job here that I couldn’t get up North. Plus it’s tax free. Was a New England fan but I work and play here in Jax and attend the games in support of my local team first and to support my community.

    I don’t have a problem with you being a Vikings fan but it bothers me that you could careless if the Jags move out of a community where you live.

    Just think if the Jags move you won’t get to see your Vikings ever play here. Even the local Steeler fans know this and don’t support the Jags moving. Fans of all NFL teams who live in the Jax area should not support the Jaguars moving, as it will impact them.

    BTW I also attend Sharks games who are currently #1 in AFL.

  128. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 12:21 PM

    @ rabidbillsfan says: Jun 20, 2011 9:49 AM
    __________________________________
    have you even ever been to batavia? is there a lot of farm land around it? yes. it is bigger and nicer than niagara falls? definitely. so local area businesses would get a jump from it.

  129. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 12:28 PM

    I don’t understand why the NFL would want to be global. They make a ton of money as it is and every team is AMERICAN. It’s called American Football and it should be kept in America.

  130. shackdelrio says: Jun 20, 2011 1:04 PM

    “johnsticle says:
    Jun 20, 2011 12:42 AM
    I see Jax moving before Buffalo. I live here in Jacksonville (although I’m not a Jags fan, I’m a Vikings fan) and yes… there’s a HUGE following for the Jags… but it doesn’t seem like the CITY wants them. It’s complicated to understand until you see it for yourself.”

    That doesn’t even make sense. The city bends over backwards for this team. The stadium was built in 1995 and the city constantly keeps it updated. They are in the process now of working with the team in upgrading the sound system and all of the scoreboards in the stadium. And a new practice bubble is in the works as well. The city even gave up some money in the naming rights deal with Everbank last summer.

  131. monkeesfan says: Jun 20, 2011 1:17 PM

    recon163 -

    1 – We know LA does not have a football audience because there has been ZERO interest expressed for a team there outside of these fantasy football types who happen to be businessmen trying to build a stadium. LA has never been a good sports demographic, shown by the loss of TWO teams (Raiders and Rams) and the failure of every sport outside of the Lakers. No marketing study by the league changes this.

    2 – They may be private businessmen but there is NO possibility – no physical or economic possibility – of building a stadium without public help; Bob Kraft is the exception (building a stadium with borrowed private money) that proves the rule.

    3 – Kelly, Jacobs, etc. have far more strength (money and also a built-in audience) to win the bid than any LA entity.

  132. rabidbillsfan says: Jun 20, 2011 2:13 PM

    Mokeesfan… Amen. Just don’t forget about Pegula. If it were to come down to it, one way or another he would find a way to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Speaking of the Sabres, and moving, why don’t we just uproot the arena and plop it in another random, desolate spot. I would be 100% against moving the stadium. Recon, do you live in WNY? If so, then you would know that moving the stadium to Batavia is a 60 mile transplant, give or take, what bussiness in their right mind would uproot and follow it? Only to be visited on gamedays? That doesn’t make much sense now does it? Or maybe you think the Bills are actually in the City of Buffalo. They are not, they reside in Orchard Park, which is a high standing community that isn’t surroud by flat, boring farm land, or Criminal infested streets. There is a rich history where it stands, and the community has grown around it. The Ralph means as much to the people in this area as the Superdome does to the people of New Orleans. Check your facts before you form a “smart” rebuttle. The Ralph has never had a problem selling where it is, so why change anything? Please enlighten me.

  133. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 20, 2011 2:42 PM

    monkeesfan says:
    “1 – We know LA does not have a football audience because there has been ZERO interest expressed for a team there outside of these fantasy football types who happen to be businessmen trying to build a stadium. LA has never been a good sports demographic, shown by the loss of TWO teams (Raiders and Rams) and the failure of every sport outside of the Lakers. No marketing study by the league changes this.
    2 – They may be private businessmen but there is NO possibility – no physical or economic possibility – of building a stadium without public help; Bob Kraft is the exception (building a stadium with borrowed private money) that proves the rule.”
    3 – Kelly, Jacobs, etc. have far more strength (money and also a built-in audience) to win the bid than any LA entity.”

    Gaaaa. I’m really beginning to regret flagging this thread for updates. There’s just too much incorrect information for one man to correct. Still, Once more unto the breach I go.
    1) We know this how? I have correct the myth that the Rams and Raiders left Los Angeles due to poor fan support again and again and again. I’m tired of typing it, and I refuse to simply cut and paste my own posts, as some do. Suffice it to say that your position is incorrect. If you really are interested in why the teams left, see my earlier posts. And since you expanded the issue beyond football by suggesting that every sporting enterprise with the exception of the Lakers has failed: The Dodgers have been successful here since 1958, barring a recent rough patch that stems from staggeringly bad ownership; the Kings enjoy about as much financial success and fan support as a hockey team is going to have in a warm-weather city; the Los Angeles Clippers – as bad as they are – continue to draw respectable crowds year after year. We even support soccer.
    2) Your use of the utter nonsequiter “the exception that proves the rule” invalidates any point you may be trying to make. Do I need to elaborate on this?
    3) I did a little checking – took me about 30 seconds – on the financials involved. Jim Kelly, while wealthy by Joe Paycheck standards, doesn’t remotely have the financial resources to buy in as anything other than a token “owner.” This Jeremy Jacobs you mentioned is ranked by Forbes as the 190th wealthiest person in the US, with a net worth of $2.1 Billion. That’s a lot of lettuce, to be sure, but purchasing an NFL team would require an investment of roughly 30%-40% of his current net worth, and that’s assuming the unlikely scenario where he could liquidate enough assets to make a bid. On the other hand, Philip Anschutz is currently ranked at #37 on the Forbes list, with assets of $7.5 Billion. In short, Kelly, et al, do not “have far more strength . . . to win the bid than any LA entity.”

  134. sirdrinksalot says: Jun 20, 2011 4:02 PM

    L.A. is a terrible sports city and always will be. They can go to hell before they get our beloved Bills.

  135. rabidbillsfan says: Jun 20, 2011 4:19 PM

    @NoHomeTeam

    Your going to hate it even more now… I’m not saying there is little fan support, what I’m saying is there is little fan support for the majority of teams listed. I’d be willing to bet about 60%+ of the population down there are either Die Hard Raider fans or Charger Fans. So forcing a new team down their throat isn’t going to work. If you would have done a little more checking, and shame on you monkees fan (It didn’t dawn on me earlier) Jacobs would not be able to purchase the Bills, because he is the owner of the Boston Bruins. Your point is valid on the financials, but who ever is in control of sending the Bills packing, can chose whom ever they please, not just the highest bidder. Again, refrencing the Sabres, Golisano put the team in Pegula’s hands for roughly 60 million less to keep the team in Buffalo. When the time comes, there will be more than enough Minority support to equal, if not surpass any bids that may move the Bills out of WNY.

  136. golonger says: Jun 20, 2011 5:39 PM

    The Jags should move……they have been a joke ever since they entered the league. The only reason Jax got a team is becasue the league didn’t want to have to choose between Balt & St. Louis in expansion………..JAX is no place for an NFL team..and the NFL found that out. Get the Jaguars to LA and get it over with!!!!

  137. golonger says: Jun 20, 2011 5:40 PM

    sirdrinksalot = another delusional homer!

  138. golonger says: Jun 20, 2011 5:42 PM

    ..and gee……why would the NFL want to go global……..duh………TO MAKE MORE MONEY MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  139. suuupahstah says: Jun 20, 2011 8:03 PM

    @go longer : The Jags should move……they have been a joke ever since they entered the league.

    Hmm, I wasn’t aware making the AFC Championship game twice in the first five years of existence was being a joke nowadays… Another idiot chiming in on something he has no clue about.

  140. mdnittlion says: Jun 20, 2011 8:40 PM

    Just to sum things up a Pro team from LA has won a Super Bowl a team from Buffalo never has. A team from Cleveland never won a Super Bowl, but when they went to Baltimore they got the Lombardi trophy.

    So how knows maybe if they move to LA they might actually win something. Cause the way it looks now playing in the same division as the Jets and Pats isn’t helping them that much.

  141. keepyerstickontheice says: Jun 20, 2011 10:20 PM

    Hey man, I just wandered over here from the hockey side (Sabres!), and while I can sympathize with the Bflo-nians, WOULD YOU PLEASE F@(#ING SPELLCHECK.

    recon163 is having his way around here because he is able to put three words together.

    Settle down (simma. don. naw.). The Bills are not going anywhere. It’s just a way of getting hits, which drive revenue, but have no basis in fact.

    BTW, I just saw Tupac washing his Benz on the West Side Highway this morning. Give me some money.

  142. recon163 says: Jun 20, 2011 11:36 PM

    @NoHomeTeam:

    You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

    At the risk of piling on…..

    @ monkeesfan:

    “They may be private businessmen but there is NO possibility – no physical or economic possibility – of building a stadium without public help; Bob Kraft is the exception (building a stadium with
    borrowed private money) that proves the rule.”

    Let me get this straight….there is NO possibility but Bob Kraft. Didn’t you just contradict yourself? “NO possibility” being a blanket statement that you promptly negate. BTW: The Panthers also play in a
    privately funded stadium. And wasn’t the Meadowlands built without public financing? Just asking…..

  143. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 21, 2011 1:29 AM

    rabidbillsfan says: “@NoHomeTeam
    Your going to hate it even more now… I’m not saying there is little fan support, what I’m saying is there is little fan support for the majority of teams listed. I’d be willing to bet about 60%+ of the population down there are either Die Hard Raider fans or Charger Fans. So forcing a new team down their throat isn’t going to work. If you would have done a little more checking, and shame on you monkees fan (It didn’t dawn on me earlier) Jacobs would not be able to purchase the Bills, because he is the owner of the Boston Bruins. Your point is valid on the financials, but who ever is in control of sending the Bills packing, can chose whom ever they please, not just the highest bidder. Again, refrencing the Sabres, Golisano put the team in Pegula’s hands for roughly 60 million less to keep the team in Buffalo. When the time comes, there will be more than enough Minority support to equal, if not surpass any bids that may move the Bills out of WNY.”

    I gave you a ThumbUp for this, rabid. It’s nice to see a Bills fan respond to my posts in a calm, reasonable manner. The idea of a team leaving “home” for some other city is a sensitive one, and bound to raise hostilities. Nonetheless, I feel somewhat obligated to defend my adopted city with regard to its “worthiness” to host an NFL franchise. By extension, I will also make a point of correcting ill-informed opinions which are represented as fact. I appreciate that you have resisted the (understandable) temptation to regard my posts as a personal assault.

    I will address your points as best I can, in order.
    1) I will absolutely agree that there is an underwhelming amount of fan support here for the Vikings, Jaguars, Bills or any of the other teams that have been mentioned as possible candidates for relocation. I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll take the time to do so again. I firmly believe that any franchise that moves here must leave behind its former identity if it is to have any hope of success. I am highly doubtful a fan base here can be made to accept a team that has any ties to another area. An expansion team would be far preferable, since it would come with no baggage – it would be “ours.” Since the chances of expansion are slim – and that’s an optimistic assessment – the only other option is for an existing team to be “wiped.” It’s a harsh term, I know, but I believe it accurately describes what needs to happen. For what it’s worth, I as a fan would find that preferable to watching a team that I identified with playing somewhere else. I’d much rather that the team that currently plays in St. Louis be called the Arches or the Clydesdales and that they not mingle the names of Cardinals players with Rams on their ring of honor. But I digress.
    2) Your assessment of 60% “die-hard” Raider or Charger fanship may have been true several years ago. I honestly doubt the numbers are anywhere near that percentage at this point. The Chargers have never really been big here, and it’s getting to be a looooooooong time since the Raiders were a “home team.” The die-hard fans here die hard for a broad assortment of teams – we are a city of transplants, after all.
    3) I’m afraid I don’t know the recent history of Buffalo sports franchises, so I will yield to your knowledge of the situation vis-à-vis the sale of the Sabres to local interests for below market value. I will assume that your information is valid. What this comes down to is whether or not Ralph Wilson or his, uh, inheritors have any emotional incentive to insure that the team remains in Western New York once he dies. If he (or they) does, then there is certainly a chance things could play out the same way. If he (or they) does not, then the eventual outcome will most likely be dictated by sales options which yield the greatest amount of return.

    Thanks again for your serious, civil contribution to the thread. These exchanges need more posters like you.

  144. shackdelrio says: Jun 21, 2011 10:45 AM

    “golonger says:
    Jun 20, 2011 5:39 PM
    The Jags should move……they have been a joke ever since they entered the league. The only reason Jax got a team is becasue the league didn’t want to have to choose between Balt & St. Louis in expansion………..JAX is no place for an NFL team..and the NFL found that out. Get the Jaguars to LA and get it over with!!!!”

    The Jaguars started playing in 1995 and have six playoff appearances and two division titles.

    The Browns started playing in 1999 and have one playoff appearance and zero division titles.

    The Texans started playing in 2002 and have zero playoff appearances.

    Who is the joke?

  145. tomcous says: Jun 21, 2011 12:19 PM

    A little FootNote here … There is plenty of MONEY wanting to keep the Bills in Buffalo …

    You have former players with connections …
    You have area people like Tom Golisano who sold the Sabers and plenty of Capital from Paychex …
    The list goes on …

    I wish Ralph would allow the move to happen now because some of his handling has cost this team in reputation …

  146. gomnvikings says: Jun 22, 2011 11:10 AM

    LA will not get a NFL team period!! ONLY in the movies! like really who would want too play in your smog!!!

  147. croissants25 says: Jun 22, 2011 12:47 PM

    Few thoughts on things in Buffalo’s favor for staying put…..lets not forget there is zero debt on R Wilson stadium….Ralph has voted against every franchise move. With that record, I find it hard to believe a plan is not in place. The guy has never revealed his hand…..there are some big hitters around WNY who have openly expressed support of maintaining the Bills in Buff, including Galisiano and Pegula, who is stinking rich……Jeremy Jacobs could buy the Bills, but would need to sell the Bruins….his biz & family’s roots are firmly entrenched in WNY.

    And how come this little nugget is never mentioned when talking about small mkt Buffalo? – Buffalo’s western & northern border is CANADA! Southern Ontario is a suburb of Buffalo, that Nielsen doesn’t count toward measuring TV ratings. Yes, 15-20% of Bills fans come from Ontario & another 10-15% come from Rochester area. Why is this treated as a weakness? Don’t Eagles fans come from Delaware & NJ? Do all Patriots fans live in Boston city limits? The Chiefs are in great shape and their attendance draws from Iowa, Nebraska, KS and MO. 2.3M live in NYS within 90 minutes of RW Stadium. Add another 6M within 2 hours from Southern Ontario, and this is not a very small mkts. Ontario TV viewers are turned into Buffalo stations for NFL games, and the majority of NFL sponsors have business dealings in Canada and conveniently reach the target male demographic group in S Ontario through Bflo TV stations.

    It’s always been convenient for Wilson to say Buffalo is a small mkt when bleeding the county or league for an attractive lease deal or revenue sharing, but it’s really just been consistent great poker played by him. Wilson is a brilliant business man. And after tools like Colin Cowherd ridiculed him to no end after he was the ONLY owner to denounce the last CBA in ’06, he proved himself, again, to be one of the “smartest guys in the room.” The next owner of the Bills will make money in Buffalo.

  148. recon163 says: Jun 22, 2011 11:36 PM

    @ croissants25:

    Good points. Some considerations:

    “Yes, 15-20% of Bills fans come from Ontario & another 10-15% come from Rochester area. Why is this treated as a weakness?”

    It depends who you are comparing it to. Against LA it is a weakness.

    “The next owner of the Bills will make money in Buffalo.”

    True, but how much? Assume the team sells for $900 million. How much do investors need to make back to turn a profit? And when? If they were in a bigger market could they make more? Just asking….

  149. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 23, 2011 11:34 AM

    gomnvikings says: “LA will not get a NFL team period!! ONLY in the movies! like really who would want too play in your smog!!!”

    Simmer down, gomn; this is a Bills-to-Los Angeles thread, not a Vikings to Los Angeles thread. But for what it’s worth, I’ll wager that there are quite a few players who wouldn’t mind playing in “our smog” if it meant that they got too [sic] live in Southern California during the season.

  150. laeaglefan says: Jun 23, 2011 1:52 PM

    This should be a “no brainer” for the players. I mean, who wouldn’t rather spend the football season in Los Angeles, as opposed to Buffalo? Somehow the name “Los Angeles Bills” doesn’t ring true though. They’ll have to come up with a better name.

  151. NoHomeTeam says: Jun 24, 2011 11:48 AM

    laeaglefan says: Somehow the name “Los Angeles Bills” doesn’t ring true though. They’ll have to come up with a better name.”

    L.A. Bill$?

  152. jackfnburton says: Jun 24, 2011 5:25 PM

    Los Angeles should be nervous about getting the bills. Then again, they did have the Raiders for a while so I think they might be up for anything.

  153. jackfnburton says: Jun 24, 2011 5:26 PM

    Ok who wrote the book? This is an internet forum, not college. You’re not going to win anything you know.

  154. khmer379 says: Jun 25, 2011 5:34 PM

    Viking aint going nowhere cause the lakers don purple and yellow doesnt mean the vikings will follow make ur own team stop trying to steal other cities team just saying an yes I live in da MPLS n a real fan of my squad it wouldnt be da same if the vikes leave jus saying

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