L.A. Bill$?

Simmer down, gomn; this is a Bills-to-Los Angeles thread, not a Vikings to Los Angeles thread. But for what it’s worth, I’ll wager that there are quite a few players who wouldn’t mind playing in “our smog” if it meant that they got too [sic] live in Southern California during the season.

Good points. Some considerations:

“Yes, 15-20% of Bills fans come from Ontario & another 10-15% come from Rochester area. Why is this treated as a weakness?”

It depends who you are comparing it to. Against LA it is a weakness.

“The next owner of the Bills will make money in Buffalo.”

True, but how much? Assume the team sells for $900 million. How much do investors need to make back to turn a profit? And when? If they were in a bigger market could they make more? Just asking….

And how come this little nugget is never mentioned when talking about small mkt Buffalo? – Buffalo’s western & northern border is CANADA! Southern Ontario is a suburb of Buffalo, that Nielsen doesn’t count toward measuring TV ratings. Yes, 15-20% of Bills fans come from Ontario & another 10-15% come from Rochester area. Why is this treated as a weakness? Don’t Eagles fans come from Delaware & NJ? Do all Patriots fans live in Boston city limits? The Chiefs are in great shape and their attendance draws from Iowa, Nebraska, KS and MO. 2.3M live in NYS within 90 minutes of RW Stadium. Add another 6M within 2 hours from Southern Ontario, and this is not a very small mkts. Ontario TV viewers are turned into Buffalo stations for NFL games, and the majority of NFL sponsors have business dealings in Canada and conveniently reach the target male demographic group in S Ontario through Bflo TV stations.

It’s always been convenient for Wilson to say Buffalo is a small mkt when bleeding the county or league for an attractive lease deal or revenue sharing, but it’s really just been consistent great poker played by him. Wilson is a brilliant business man. And after tools like Colin Cowherd ridiculed him to no end after he was the ONLY owner to denounce the last CBA in ’06, he proved himself, again, to be one of the “smartest guys in the room.” The next owner of the Bills will make money in Buffalo.

You have former players with connections …
You have area people like Tom Golisano who sold the Sabers and plenty of Capital from Paychex …
The list goes on …

I wish Ralph would allow the move to happen now because some of his handling has cost this team in reputation …

The Jaguars started playing in 1995 and have six playoff appearances and two division titles.

The Browns started playing in 1999 and have one playoff appearance and zero division titles.

The Texans started playing in 2002 and have zero playoff appearances.

Who is the joke?

I gave you a ThumbUp for this, rabid. It’s nice to see a Bills fan respond to my posts in a calm, reasonable manner. The idea of a team leaving “home” for some other city is a sensitive one, and bound to raise hostilities. Nonetheless, I feel somewhat obligated to defend my adopted city with regard to its “worthiness” to host an NFL franchise. By extension, I will also make a point of correcting ill-informed opinions which are represented as fact. I appreciate that you have resisted the (understandable) temptation to regard my posts as a personal assault.

I will address your points as best I can, in order.
1) I will absolutely agree that there is an underwhelming amount of fan support here for the Vikings, Jaguars, Bills or any of the other teams that have been mentioned as possible candidates for relocation. I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll take the time to do so again. I firmly believe that any franchise that moves here must leave behind its former identity if it is to have any hope of success. I am highly doubtful a fan base here can be made to accept a team that has any ties to another area. An expansion team would be far preferable, since it would come with no baggage – it would be “ours.” Since the chances of expansion are slim – and that’s an optimistic assessment – the only other option is for an existing team to be “wiped.” It’s a harsh term, I know, but I believe it accurately describes what needs to happen. For what it’s worth, I as a fan would find that preferable to watching a team that I identified with playing somewhere else. I’d much rather that the team that currently plays in St. Louis be called the Arches or the Clydesdales and that they not mingle the names of Cardinals players with Rams on their ring of honor. But I digress.
2) Your assessment of 60% “die-hard” Raider or Charger fanship may have been true several years ago. I honestly doubt the numbers are anywhere near that percentage at this point. The Chargers have never really been big here, and it’s getting to be a looooooooong time since the Raiders were a “home team.” The die-hard fans here die hard for a broad assortment of teams – we are a city of transplants, after all.
3) I’m afraid I don’t know the recent history of Buffalo sports franchises, so I will yield to your knowledge of the situation vis-à-vis the sale of the Sabres to local interests for below market value. I will assume that your information is valid. What this comes down to is whether or not Ralph Wilson or his, uh, inheritors have any emotional incentive to insure that the team remains in Western New York once he dies. If he (or they) does, then there is certainly a chance things could play out the same way. If he (or they) does not, then the eventual outcome will most likely be dictated by sales options which yield the greatest amount of return.

Thanks again for your serious, civil contribution to the thread. These exchanges need more posters like you.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

At the risk of piling on…..

@ monkeesfan:

“They may be private businessmen but there is NO possibility – no physical or economic possibility – of building a stadium without public help; Bob Kraft is the exception (building a stadium with
borrowed private money) that proves the rule.”

Let me get this straight….there is NO possibility but Bob Kraft. Didn’t you just contradict yourself? “NO possibility” being a blanket statement that you promptly negate. BTW: The Panthers also play in a
privately funded stadium. And wasn’t the Meadowlands built without public financing? Just asking…..

recon163 is having his way around here because he is able to put three words together.

Settle down (simma. don. naw.). The Bills are not going anywhere. It’s just a way of getting hits, which drive revenue, but have no basis in fact.

BTW, I just saw Tupac washing his Benz on the West Side Highway this morning. Give me some money.

So how knows maybe if they move to LA they might actually win something. Cause the way it looks now playing in the same division as the Jets and Pats isn’t helping them that much.

Hmm, I wasn’t aware making the AFC Championship game twice in the first five years of existence was being a joke nowadays… Another idiot chiming in on something he has no clue about.

Your going to hate it even more now… I’m not saying there is little fan support, what I’m saying is there is little fan support for the majority of teams listed. I’d be willing to bet about 60%+ of the population down there are either Die Hard Raider fans or Charger Fans. So forcing a new team down their throat isn’t going to work. If you would have done a little more checking, and shame on you monkees fan (It didn’t dawn on me earlier) Jacobs would not be able to purchase the Bills, because he is the owner of the Boston Bruins. Your point is valid on the financials, but who ever is in control of sending the Bills packing, can chose whom ever they please, not just the highest bidder. Again, refrencing the Sabres, Golisano put the team in Pegula’s hands for roughly 60 million less to keep the team in Buffalo. When the time comes, there will be more than enough Minority support to equal, if not surpass any bids that may move the Bills out of WNY.

Gaaaa. I’m really beginning to regret flagging this thread for updates. There’s just too much incorrect information for one man to correct. Still, Once more unto the breach I go.
1) We know this how? I have correct the myth that the Rams and Raiders left Los Angeles due to poor fan support again and again and again. I’m tired of typing it, and I refuse to simply cut and paste my own posts, as some do. Suffice it to say that your position is incorrect. If you really are interested in why the teams left, see my earlier posts. And since you expanded the issue beyond football by suggesting that every sporting enterprise with the exception of the Lakers has failed: The Dodgers have been successful here since 1958, barring a recent rough patch that stems from staggeringly bad ownership; the Kings enjoy about as much financial success and fan support as a hockey team is going to have in a warm-weather city; the Los Angeles Clippers – as bad as they are – continue to draw respectable crowds year after year. We even support soccer.
2) Your use of the utter nonsequiter “the exception that proves the rule” invalidates any point you may be trying to make. Do I need to elaborate on this?
3) I did a little checking – took me about 30 seconds – on the financials involved. Jim Kelly, while wealthy by Joe Paycheck standards, doesn’t remotely have the financial resources to buy in as anything other than a token “owner.” This Jeremy Jacobs you mentioned is ranked by Forbes as the 190th wealthiest person in the US, with a net worth of $2.1 Billion. That’s a lot of lettuce, to be sure, but purchasing an NFL team would require an investment of roughly 30%-40% of his current net worth, and that’s assuming the unlikely scenario where he could liquidate enough assets to make a bid. On the other hand, Philip Anschutz is currently ranked at #37 on the Forbes list, with assets of $7.5 Billion. In short, Kelly, et al, do not “have far more strength . . . to win the bid than any LA entity.”

1 – We know LA does not have a football audience because there has been ZERO interest expressed for a team there outside of these fantasy football types who happen to be businessmen trying to build a stadium. LA has never been a good sports demographic, shown by the loss of TWO teams (Raiders and Rams) and the failure of every sport outside of the Lakers. No marketing study by the league changes this.

2 – They may be private businessmen but there is NO possibility – no physical or economic possibility – of building a stadium without public help; Bob Kraft is the exception (building a stadium with borrowed private money) that proves the rule.

3 – Kelly, Jacobs, etc. have far more strength (money and also a built-in audience) to win the bid than any LA entity.

That doesn’t even make sense. The city bends over backwards for this team. The stadium was built in 1995 and the city constantly keeps it updated. They are in the process now of working with the team in upgrading the sound system and all of the scoreboards in the stadium. And a new practice bubble is in the works as well. The city even gave up some money in the naming rights deal with Everbank last summer.

Do you really think the Vikings, Bills and other cold weather teams will be viable if their season ticket holders keep leaving their cities to move to Jax because of the weather?

I moved here because of the weather, because pro football is here and this is a growing area. I got a pretty good job here that I couldn’t get up North. Plus it’s tax free. Was a New England fan but I work and play here in Jax and attend the games in support of my local team first and to support my community.

I don’t have a problem with you being a Vikings fan but it bothers me that you could careless if the Jags move out of a community where you live.

Just think if the Jags move you won’t get to see your Vikings ever play here. Even the local Steeler fans know this and don’t support the Jags moving. Fans of all NFL teams who live in the Jax area should not support the Jaguars moving, as it will impact them.

BTW I also attend Sharks games who are currently #1 in AFL.

If it’s any consolation, the Bills are a dark horse for the L.A. sweepstakes. The Vikes are the most likely to move, probably in 2012 or 2013. When that happens, there will be a ton of backlash against teams with history like the Vikes moving across country. After that backlash, L.A. will either not get a second team after the Vikes move (blackouts, any one?), or one of the former L.A. teams currently in California will move back instead.

Now, the Bills moving to Toronto… that seems more likely to me… established fan base… meets the NFL’s desire to become a global league…

“The only way, I see Buffalo keeping its team is do what Green Bay did, sell the team to the city and the fans, I’m no Bills fan but don’t want to see them lose a team, and you know the NFL will not give them a new team, the ball is in the city of
Buffalo and it’s fans cort”

NFL ownership rules preclude this. Nice try though.