Did Ingram, Meggett or LT ever come off as self centered or as bad teammates or did they take shots @ their coaches in the media? I honestly don’t know. Actually since all those guys played before the era of Twitter and FB and the internet maybe they did…and we just don’t know it.

Anyway I do think it’s pretty normal and not just a NY thing for most football fans to hate on guys they feel disrupted or dissed their own team or city. Like TO, Moss, Haynesworth etc. All of our franchises have had criminals. BUT they aren’t always the ones that the fans hate and want gone. You could say the same for LeBron. Absolutely 0 crime by him, etc but he is HATED here…HATED. Jim Brown IS a criminal, but was adored here until he dumped on the franchise and city. Why is Haynesworth hated? Because he actually assaulted another player on the field? Nope, I bet not many fans but Cowboys fans remember the name of the player he assaulted.He’s hated because he’s lazy and entitled and a poor teammate. Steve Smith had a lot of Carolina fans making excuses for him after he punched out his SECOND TEAMMATE. Once rumors came out of his wanting out of Car? Not as many supporters.I think obviously more is forgiven when a guy is a great player as well.

In a vacuum, I agree with you that a criminal should be more reviled than a self-centered jerk. BUT…a lot of us love football because it’s the ultimate team sport and sports are kind of a loyalty thing in general where our egos get hurt by a player who “disses” our city or team. I mean Braylon Edwards is a drunk driving scum. He’s also entitled and full of himself. Guess which reason is more the cause of why he’s hated in Cle? Because he dissed Cle and the Browns. So perhaps we have more of a loathing for someone who we feel is a bad teammate over one who’s a great teammate and a little shady off the field.

/Dr.Phil-ed out!

Here’s the bottom line for me. I’m a life long Giants’ fan. From about 00-06, Tiki and Tiki only made my Sundays enjoyable. The team stunk out loud otherwise. Knowledgeable fans know that roads are littered with high drafted QB busts. The common theme amongst them is that many had no running game or OL (i.e. Carr). I firmly believe that w/o Tiki, Eli would have been a colossal bust. For Eli’s first 3 years, Tiki was the Giants’ offense and he STILL succeeded in a rugged division against 8 and, many times, 9 man fronts. He took the heat off of Eli allowing him to develop (the offense is wide open when its consistently 2nd and 4).

Now…what did Tiki do to make himself the most villified NY pro athlete in the last 25 years? Spoke out of school? Told Coughlin to get him more carries (in the Car playoff loss)? Told Strahan to accept less $$? Arguably mishandled his retirement year? Dated a girl while he was separated?

Tiki did not do drugs his entire career or cavort with underage hookers (L.T.), didn’t rape minors (Meggett), and didn’t launder money or get tied up with the mob (Ingram). Yet, Tiki still gets treated 10x worse than any of these “men” from people calling themselves Giants’ fans. I don’t get it.

This is why I take Tiki’s side on these threads.

I was using the speeding analogy mainly to point out that crimes can be serious or not serious but they are all crimes just as there are degrees of criticism and speaking out and legal vs. appropriate in actions. It was not well done on my part as far as being clear.

On BR, I have always despised him but I don’t think he raped anyone. I wouldn’t want him on my team for many reasons but in a way the comparison with Tiki is apt. Neither IMO has done anything illegal but both are distasteful as people and teammates. I mean the QB of MY team is a baby daddy. Do I personally like that situation? No. But the dude is taking care of his out of wedlock child and spends as much time as possible with him despite the fact his vindictive ex GF purposely moved his son to the exact opposite coast from where he works and for no discernable reason except “NYAH NYAH “. Still, he is making the best out of a bad situation. Not sure we can say the same for Tiki as far as learning from his actions or doing the right thing.

On Sapp- I was a bit surprised he was that harsh on an ex teammate . Usually (that I have heard)he is good with critiquing without being nasty. I am inclined to give a guy a break for it once or twice depending on the situation.
I am not sure what most Oak fans opinion of Sapp is but one thing I do know: Tiki did all he did while a member of his only team. I think those fans who feel betrayed or turned off by the stuff Tiki said and did have cause to feel that way. I am sure Sapp would be welcomed by most fans in any ceremony TB would have for him. That’s really the only comparison one can logically make is to another a guy on his original team.

As far as Tiki the player, you get no argument from me. The guy was a great player. Very talented and carried that O for a lot of years. Here’s the thing though: I live in Cle and as PHENOMENAL as Jim Brown was as a player, as time went on quite a few people here have grown tired of his constant whining and belittling the franchise here and the management and feeling he is above actually doing the ceremonial job they created for him out of RESPECT FOR HIM. The last straw was when he refused to attend the ceremony for the ring of honor. No matter how great a guy is as a player and how well respected he is, if he craps on the city he made his bones in and craps on the fans who respect him, he will RIGHTFULLY (IMO) be hated there.

No he shouldn’t pull a Favre. Favre is despicable to me for many reasons. And actually again it is funny you bring him up because one of those reasons is that he crapped on a teammate publicly over their money just like Tiki did. It may have been blown out of proportion, but I am basing my dislike of that “retirement tour” scenario on comments his teammates made, not even my own feelings. It bothered his teammates, as in more than one of them. That’s enough for me to say he was being a poor teammate by doing it.

As for the Coughlin thing, yes it is always going to bother me when coaches crap on players publicly or vice versa. That’s for the private conversations. It bothers me when I think Coughlin has done that to NGY players as well. We will have to agree to disagree on that.

How many millions did Tiki leave on the table to go strutting off on his post football mini-adventure?

Too often the Good Lord hits people with the talent stick that are really just too damned stupid to deserve it.
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gimmebruschi – you are the perfect person for me to counter your ridiculous assertion. Yes, Tiki left millions on the table and left an ultra-violent game still able to walk. Your man BRUSCHI stayed far too long, took those millions, and now may unfortunately die a premature death as a concussed vegetable.

Please think before commenting.

Let me try this again.

1) He did NOT cheat on his wife. They were SEPARATED! What part of that can’t you get? In any event, you say you’d become a Jets fan if the Pats signed him. You know the Jets employ a certain overrated CB with 19 kids by 19 women who pays for none of them right??

2) He did NOT “quit” on his team in 2006. The last two games of that season he rushed for OVER 400 yards and ran the Giants into the playoffs. If that makes him a “quitter”, I wish everyone on the Giants would quit!

Like everyone else on here, you my friend are a flaming hypocrite!!
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Whoa! Nice. I must be a flaming hypocrite because I don’t want a quitter on my team? He quit on his wife while she was pregnant to have an affair with someone else. He quit on his team and they won the Super Bowl. He quit being a decent human being and called someone a “dumb c*nt” on live TV.

The only positive thing I can say about Tiki is that at least he isn’t a criminal.

I’m sorry you can’t keep it in your pants, but you need to realize that not everyone back-stabs their pregnant wife.

There is a good reason why he doesn’t have a real job now. No one wants him.

Too often the Good Lord hits people with the talent stick that are really just too damned stupid to deserve it.

LOL!!!!!!! They have no problem with a serial RAPIST at quarterback, but someone who cheats on his wife at running back? NO WAY!!!!

You can come play for my backyard football team. I’m trying to recruit Brett Favre to play too.

1) speeding/murderers is apples/oranges. Both speeding and murder is a crime. Tiki committed NO crimes so the comparison is faulty. Now if I was pulled over for talking to a girl in my car who didn’t look like my separated wife, then yes…I’d rightfully tell the cop to go catch murderers.

2) Separated men dating women is appalling but Roethlisberger raping TWO women and not being crucified by EVERY Steeler fan with a daughter is not??? That is another thing wrong with this country my friend.

3) Sapp said MUCH worse about his ex teammate Huff than what Tiki said about Eli. Is Sapp being villified like Tiki? Would the Oakland fans boo Sapp at his own Ring of Honor ceremony? Of course not.

4) I’ll give you that Tiki is a smug, hard to like figure that should have kept his mouth shut more than once. Still….no crimes and will outwork/outhustle anyone on the team. Much like T.O. who still performs at a high level and doesn’t get bashed halfway near as much as Tiki.

5) Public retirement tour – Would you rather he pull a Favre and hold the team hostage in the offseason or let them know that he won’t be back so they can plan? This one was blown WAY out of proportion. As far as calling out Coughlin…again…was that some great revelation that he was outcoached mightily after getting shutout at home in playoffs?

Being a small guy who stayed out of trouble and developed into an all-time back (yes, I said it) should tip the scale in his favor over a few foot-in-mouth moments. ESPECIALLY, amongst Giants’ fans who would not have SNIFFED SB 2007 w/o Tiki helping Eli develop into a SB winning QB.

Tiki did nothing criminal. However, only 3 years ago, your boy Willie Andrews was arrested for assault with a gun and intent to distribute. Much, much worse offenses on society than Tiki can’t you agree? Did you renounce your Pats fandom then?

Like I said above, you haters need to get some perspective.

I wonder if you are a guy who upon being stopped by the police for speeding exhorts them to “go catch murderers instead”?

Screwing around with and impregnating another woman whether you are separated or not is something that shows a large sense of entitlement, lack of maturity and poor judgment especially when children are involved. I see nothing wrong with being appalled by that behavior.

Tiki can say what he wants about his old teammates once he is in the media, but he has to deal with the consequences of that. There are people in the media who can be critical of ex teammates without being hateful and personal towards them. He is not one of those guys.

Strahan is. To wit, when Tiki was a NYG he was a poor teammate and that’s a fact. Since you are a NYG fan certainly you recall his whining about Strahan’s contract? Strahan is a bigger man and hasn’t complained about that with Tiki currently, choosing to focus on what he’s done recently even though it’s a HUGE no-no for players to talk about other players’ money and it reveals them as being poor teammates.

Tiki engendered a lot of animosity amongst his teammates for putting himself on that whole public retirement tour in 06. Tiki also whined to the press that Coughlin was outcoached in the NYG WC loss to Carolina in Jan 06. Need I continue? The man is all about himself and while that is not criminal it’s something people don’t want in a co-worker.

Although Ira may be correct that the Bucs are not interested, I would like to know that the Bucs feel that way, not that Ira feels that the Bucs feel that way.

After Blount the Bucs don’t have a lot of depth. Cadillac Williams is getting older and didn’t have a great ’10 season. Earnest Graham wasn’t great either. So, maybe the Bucs are interested in him (quoting no sources).

… Bust.