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10 takes on the Kolb trade

kevin-kolb-concussionjpg-14f9825f04772289_large

As Rosenthal pointed out earlier, I’m fired up about the Cardinals’ decision to give up a 2008 first-round pick (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie) and a 2012 second-round pick for quarterback Kevin Kolb.

In the hopes of making my otherwise hopelessly incoherent ramblings more understandable, I’ve organized my thoughts into 10 separate takes.

Here goes.

1.  Eagles know how to coach up quarterbacks.

It’s a point I’ve been making from time to time, both here and in other contexts.  Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have gotten the absolute best out of every quarterback they’ve put on the field.

From Donovan McNabb to Mike Vick to A.J. Feeley to Koy Detmer to Jeff Garcia to any other quarterback who has played in any game since 1999 for the Eagles, they have performed better in Philly than anywhere else.

For that reason, any team should have been leery about Kevin Kolb.  Regardless of anything Kolb can or can’t do, the smoke-and-mirrors impact of excellent coaching makes guys look better than they are.

Given the deal the Cardinals have done, both via trade compensation and contract, they surely assume they’ll get as much or more out of Kolb than Reid did.

We’re not sure that’s a safe assumption.

2.  Kolb remains unproven.

Apart from the fact that the Eagles can get more out of a given quarterback than anyone else, Kolb hasn’t played enough to know whether the Eagles actually have gotten anything truly good out of him.

He has started seven games in four years.  In 2009, after McNabb suffered a broken rib in Week One against the Panthers, Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for 300 or more yards in his first two starts.  In his first game, he fell nine yards short of 400 — primarily because the Saints scored 48 points against the Eagles in Philadelphia and Kolb and company were constantly trying to keep pace.  (Despite the yardage, Kolb’s passer rating for the game was 53.2, a number low enough to make even Derek Anderson laugh.)

Last year, Kolb entered the season as the starter, got Wally Pipp’d by Michael Vick after a concussion in Week One, and had a chance to turn the tables when Vick missed three games but couldn’t.

Kolb’s passer rating for the season?  76.1.

The best measure of whether a quarterback will be able to thrive at the NFL level comes after about six or seven games of his first season as a full-time starter.  By then, opposing defenses have enough tape to break down his strengths and weaknesses, his tendencies and tells.  If he can still thrive even after the men charged with stopping him know his game inside and out, he’s the real deal.

Kolb hasn’t played enough to get to that point.  And a career passer rating of 73.2 hardly constitutes “thriving” during the time that he has played.

3.  Limited time.

In a normal year, we could better understand a blockbuster trade and a big-money contract for a new quarterback.  In 2011, with a month or so to slap together preparations for a season, it will be harder than ever for a team to get the most out of a new quarterback.

Kolb had no offseason training program.  He has limited opportunities to get to know the system, his teammates, and the coaches.

Put simply, in the all-important first year of this relationship, Kolb will have a harder time than usual providing any sort of a return on the team’s investment.

4.  Cheaper alternatives.

Though the Cardinals would have had the problem of compressed prep time with any quarterback they brought in, why not treat 2011 as a self-contained year and get a proven veteran who would be better suited to getting the job done with limited time to prepare?

Matt Hasselbeck knows the NFC West like the contours of his hairless cranium; it would have made much more sense to sign him to a two-year deal as a free agent than to make a Hail Mary pass for a guy who may or may not ever becomes what Hasselbeck currently is.

As a bonuses, Hasselbeck could have helped groom guys like John Skelton and Max Hall, who were rushed into service prematurely last year — and who would benefit from some mentoring from a guy like Hasselbeck.

5.  Why the new contract?

Last year, when Kolb became the starter in Philly, he signed a two-year deal.  He had one year to go.

So why give him a new contract, reportedly with more than $22 million guaranteed, before knowing what he’ll do in Arizona?  Why not wait at least until October, to see how he performs?

Another option would have been to let him play out the season, and to use the franchise tag to keep him for 2012.  Sure, it would cost more to lock him up next year if he becomes a star — but if he becomes a star, don’t you think he’s going to want to rip up a contract that doesn’t quite equate to star-level compensation?

6.  The pressure’s on Whisenhunt.

I personally like Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt.  And this move makes me worry about his long-term job security.

In many respects, he has pushed his chips into the middle of the table.  If Kolb turns out to give Whisenhunt a winning hand, he’ll be set for life in Arizona.

If it blows up, Whisenhunt could get blown out of town.

7.  Fitzgerald’s future.

Greasing the skids for Whisenhunt could be a decision by receiver Larry Fitzgerald after the season to go elsewhere.  He’ll be an unrestricted free agent, and given the terms of his contract the team won’t be able to restrict his movement.

The importance of giving Fitzgerald a quarterback about whom he would feel good both this year and beyond probably influenced the organization to opt for something other than a one-year solution.

But if Kolb’s first year isn’t a good year, the Cardinals will be in even worse position than if they’d signed a veteran like Hasselbeck.

8.  Eagles need a backup. 

Let’s not make this all about how the Cardinals potentially screwed up.  The Eagles have put themselves in a delicate position at the most important position on the field.

Mike Vick’s style suggests that, at some point this year, he’ll get hurt.  If he does, will the Eagles rely on Mike Kafka?

Given the team’s ability to coach up quarterbacks, maybe they will.  (And if he does well, maybe they can get a second-round pick or more for him, too.)  Eagles fans will rest much more easily, however, if they know that the team has a guy who has been around the block a few items.

Even if that guy is Brett Favre.

9.  The Sting, Part 3.

The Kolb trade marks the third time in seven years that the Eagles have gotten at least a second-round pick in trade for a quarterback.  In 2004, they conned the Dolphins out of a second-rounder for A.J. Feeley, who would be traded a year later to the Chargers.  A year after that, Feeley came back to Philly as a free agent.

Last year, the Eagles got a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick for McNabb from the Redskins.  And the Redskins just gave McNabb to the Vikings for a carton of smokes.

Apart from all the points made above, the Cardinals should have been leery based simply on the fact that the Eagles know when and how to sell high.

10.  What was the next offer?

The question to which we may never know the answer is whether the Eagles could have sold Kolb that high to anyone else.  Usually, trade value is determined by the alternatives.

So what alternatives did the Eagles have to the Cardinals?

It could be that the Eagles sold the Cardinals on the notion that the alternative to a second-round pick and Rodgers-Cromartie was to keep Kolb.  If so, the Cardinals should have called their bluff.

Look, I realize that Kolb could end up being the next Joe Montana.  If so, the gamble will have paid off.

What bothers me is the gamble itself.  The Cardinals are taking too much of a risk with too few tangible reasons to assume there will be a reward — and plenty of reasons to fear there won’t be.

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107 Responses to “10 takes on the Kolb trade”
  1. benh999 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:01 PM

    Sometimes there is a good reason for bad teams staying bad. Nothing against Kolb, but AZ gave up way more than he was worth. If Matt Cassel is worth a second rounder, why was Kolb worth so much more?

  2. brs027 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:02 PM

    Worst Trade Ever.

  3. c1d7 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:04 PM

    lol look at how juiced clay matthews is…hgh does a body good

  4. fritzerland says: Jul 28, 2011 6:04 PM

    Great deal for both teams….especially since I’m an Eagles fan. Seriously, though–impossible to evaluate this trade for at least two seasons. That said, it does leave each team better prepared to compete this season. Both should be favored to make the playoffs now.

  5. andrewfbrowne says: Jul 28, 2011 6:05 PM

    Reminds of when the Bills gave up a first rounders to get Rob Johnson off of one good game.

    This has bust written all over it.

  6. thetooloftools says: Jul 28, 2011 6:05 PM

    11. If he doesn’t work out any better then Matt Leinert ….. then The Cards still arn’t going anywhere.

  7. son681 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:06 PM

    Great pic

  8. hobartbaker says: Jul 28, 2011 6:06 PM

    Completely loopy. Either part of the deal (2nd round pick OR Rogers-Cromartie) was overpayment on it’s own for Kornpone. Brady Quinn has the same career stats, is a bit younger, and was traded for a 6th round pick and a seldom used backup fullback a year ago. Even after he dropped in the draft Quinn was taken a couple rounds ahead of Kolb in 2007.

  9. djax10isthebomb says: Jul 28, 2011 6:07 PM

    Just more incoherent ramblings.

  10. mathsimillion says: Jul 28, 2011 6:07 PM

    I certainly will not be surprised if Whisenhunt is looking for a new job next year.

  11. 7to10for6allday says: Jul 28, 2011 6:07 PM

    Hahaha AZ are retards! Love it

  12. jenniferxxx says: Jul 28, 2011 6:08 PM

    Take 11 … the Cardinals are the latest chumps to fall for that old con game. Congrats Eagles for finding another sucker.

  13. mrclearview says: Jul 28, 2011 6:09 PM

    The Eagles just pulled off the biggest rip off the NFL has seen in years. Good luck Whis, you’re going to need it!

    And why do you insist on bringing Brett Favre into every scenario? I have to wonder if you are on his payroll for name drops.

  14. readysethike says: Jul 28, 2011 6:10 PM

    Great post, I agree with all 10 takes

  15. dfeltz says: Jul 28, 2011 6:10 PM

    10 takes? He’s played in like 10 games? I don’t know if you have 10 takes on Joe Montana’s CAREER. Whip this horse pft

  16. thehighhat says: Jul 28, 2011 6:10 PM

    They will be lucky to be 4-12 this year. Back to the cellar where they rightfully belong!

  17. nfl25 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:11 PM

    Cards fans, there is a reason ur coach just made this trade. Don’t listen to all the morons that have never watched kolb play. Kolbs stats don’t look great cuz when he comes in at half time, he sucked. He also threw 4 hail mary picks, seriously he did. So that made his stats look bad.

    But if u look at the games he started and finished, he looked like a stud in 3 of the 5, and looked good in one and bad in one. He won 2 nfc offensive player of the week awards in 2 of those 5 games. He was the first qb in NFL history to throw for over 300 yards in his first 2 starts. Thats pretty good for ur first few games. He didnt have desean jackson for all those games and he didnt have our starting LT for 3 of those games

    The problem I see for you guys with him is that he needs a good oline. If you give him time he looks good and he has a quick release. But he aint Mike Vick, if he drops back and has no time he gets happy feet.

    People that say Kolb sucks haven’t watched him play. They look at his overall stats

  18. jdnales says: Jul 28, 2011 6:11 PM

    Yeah, but its the Cardinals. Who gives a crap.

  19. vahawker says: Jul 28, 2011 6:12 PM

    As a Hawk fan, I would love a crash and burn by Kolb that sends Fitz running as fast as he can outta Az..

  20. 1phd says: Jul 28, 2011 6:13 PM

    Wait. You’re suggesting Garcia played his best ball in Philly? Not exactly. Bill Walsh discovered him and San Francisco is where he played best.

  21. larryfitzgerald4mvp says: Jul 28, 2011 6:13 PM

    You know why you guys are idiots. Because the Eagles COULD’VE kept Kolb. If Arizona didn’t trade for Kolb, John freaking Skelton is their starting QB.

    Don’t talk about alternatives. Orton or Hasselbeck weren’t going to excite Fitz. He wanted Kolb and he got him, perhaps the best QB in the division now.

    You can say that the Cardinals will miss DRC, but will they. Patrick Peterson can probably replace him fairly easily.

  22. nfl25 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:13 PM

    FOX named Kolb their “FedEx Air Player of the Week” and said that it wasn’t even close. The Eagles noted after the game that In the four games Kolb has started and finished, he owns a 3-1 record and has thrown for 1,297 yards (324.3 per game) and eight touchdowns on 99 of 145 passing (68.3%) for a quarterback rating of 103.1. Those are impressive numbers

  23. goldrush36 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:14 PM

    Kolb and Montana in the same sentence? Now that is priceless…. even if you did say could be. If he could be, he would have been starting 3 years ago regardless of McNabb

  24. galvestontexans says: Jul 28, 2011 6:14 PM

    lmao at the Derek Anderson comment.

  25. bigbwoy000 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:15 PM

    “lol look at how juiced clay matthews is…hgh does a body good”

    With the juiced way Vick played last year, it would seem apparent Matthews isn’t the only one relying on hgh.

  26. vysethelegend says: Jul 28, 2011 6:16 PM

    I honestly like Kolb and hope he does well, but I just can’t see that happening. Nothing in the past suggests he’ll be the great QB they want him to be. To me he has inconsistent written all over him.

    I hope I’m wrong, and I hope the deal works out for both teams. However, I get the feeling the Eagles pulled another A.J. Feely on this trade.

  27. eaglesfootballfan says: Jul 28, 2011 6:16 PM

    Eagles just got a pro bowl corner and a 2nd round pick for a guy that has more interceptions than touchdowns and is a 3-4 career starter.

  28. infidelamriki says: Jul 28, 2011 6:16 PM

    It’s actually going WAY UNDER REPORTED that Philly is ALSO sending the Cardinals a 2nd round pick! “The Eagles later confirmed the deal and said they were sending a 2012 second-round pick to Arizona.” – http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210ca92/article/eagles-deal-kolb-to-cardinals-for-cb-rodgerscromartie-a-pick?module=HP11_cp

  29. infidelamriki says: Jul 28, 2011 6:17 PM

    It makes the trade a lot more palatable for the Cardinals.

  30. raqaiw says: Jul 28, 2011 6:17 PM

    They just traded a good corner and a 2nd for the dude who threw the longest interception return in history. For that alone I wouldn’tve traded.

  31. hermanspeewee says: Jul 28, 2011 6:17 PM

    This was a panic move because Fitzgerald will be UFA next year. They had to get a QB this year. Orton for a conditional 3rd would’ve given the cardinals the best shot at the NFC West.

  32. offsideburns says: Jul 28, 2011 6:17 PM

    this was an ok article until i read “i realize that Kolb could end up being the next Joe Montana”, then i thought how many bong hits it would take to come to that conclusion.

  33. RussianBreadMaker says: Jul 28, 2011 6:18 PM

    The Cardinals got robbed just like the Redskins got robbed with McNabb last year.

  34. waccoforflacco says: Jul 28, 2011 6:18 PM

    I was at the game where Andy Reid benched McNabb and put in Kolb. HE WAS HORRIBLE.

    Arizona is dysfuncional.

  35. trbowman says: Jul 28, 2011 6:21 PM

    My rebuttal.

    1. Jeff Garcia had success elsewhere. Koy Detmer…is Koy Detmer. McNabb’s fall can be blamed simply on his age, he’s no longer in his prime.
    2. Unproven to an extent. At the same time, he has shown in numerous games that he can play at a very high level. He’s proven more than any guy in the draft.
    3. It’s not an ideal situation, but Kolb’s a smart guy. He can pick up the offense quickly. Besides, he’s a long term investment.
    4. Hasselbeck is a good stop-gap, but he isn’t a long term answer which is what Arizona was looking for.

  36. trigzter says: Jul 28, 2011 6:24 PM

    nfl25-

    No, I have watched all of Kolbs games. He really isn’t that good. The one game he was impressive was vs the Falcons last year. Besides that, nothing.

  37. steel6times says: Jul 28, 2011 6:24 PM

    Look at his career QB rating!

  38. whoknowsnothing says: Jul 28, 2011 6:25 PM

    Finally!!! an article that calls the Cardinals dumb for giving up so much in the trade for Kolb without even saying it.

    We had a pretty awesome CB tandem that would have caused trouble for opposing QB’s, but instead we create another hole in an already pretty bad defense.

    The Cardinals should have just worked with what they had and plan this thing out. I’m pretty sure Cincy would have been interested to trade Palmer if the this offer was made to them.

    Bidwell, Graves, or Wishenhunt? Who makes the call?

  39. axespray says: Jul 28, 2011 6:25 PM

    c1d7 says:Jul 28, 2011 6:04 PM
    “lol look at how juiced clay matthews is…hgh does a body good”

    umm….dude’s barely bigger than lil’ kevin kolb…
    he’s more a speed agile osi type pass rusher, but by all means let’s act ignorant.

  40. laeaglefan says: Jul 28, 2011 6:25 PM

    The Eagles haven’t gotten the *best* out of ALL of their quarterbacks in the Andy Reid era. Does the name Mike McMahon ring a bell? Well, on second thought, maybe that *was* his best, considering that he played at Detroit prior to his Eagles gig.

  41. scoob766 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:25 PM

    Interesting, when the Cards go 3-13, will they draft Luck or will he fall?

  42. whoknowsnothing says: Jul 28, 2011 6:28 PM

    From the sheriff to the governor to phoenix coyotes front office to the cardinals front office … This is whats wrong with Arizona!!!!!!

  43. conspiracygenerator says: Jul 28, 2011 6:29 PM

    Best post on PFT I’ve seen in awhile. “dislikers”=morons

  44. gomer1 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:33 PM

    Trade was straight bird on bird crime…

  45. tinopuno says: Jul 28, 2011 6:36 PM

    Hey Mike!
    Why do you hate America (Philadelphia)?

  46. nfl25 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:36 PM

    trigzter,

    so u watched every game? well lets look at his stats. just tell me which games were horrible and if u consider any good games. keep in mind i didnt make these up, they are on nfl.com

    Loss-Saints
    61% 391yrds 2tds/3ints

    Win-Chiefs
    71% 327yrds 2td/0ints

    Win-Niners
    67% 253yrds 1td/0ints

    Win-Falcons
    79%-326yrds 3tds/1int

    Loss-Titans
    54% 231yrds 1td/2int

  47. heavyjumbo says: Jul 28, 2011 6:36 PM

    nfl25 says:
    Jul 28, 2011 6:13 PM
    FOX named Kolb their “FedEx Air Player of the Week” and said that it wasn’t even close.

    ————————————————

    Oh well if he was named FedEx Air Player of the week, it must be a great trade for Arizona. I was unaware he came with such an impressive resume.

  48. pacash80 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:37 PM

    Greatest con-artists in the NFL. I think they should sign Vince Young to back-up Michael Vick, because Vick is likely to go down at some point. Maybe if Young stepped in he’d play well, and in a couple years they could scam someone else out of a high pick, hehe.

  49. ramsfan2101 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:37 PM

    @larryfitzgerald4mvp

    “He wanted Kolb and he got him, perhaps the best QB in the division now.”

    LMAO!! SAM BRADFORD IS THE BEST QB IN OUR DIVISION!

  50. nfl25 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:39 PM

    hey PFT, did u watch the saints game? the answer is NO. the game was close until the middle of the 4th qaurter. at the half eagles were down 3 points and kolb had 180 yards 1td and no picks. he threw 2 picks in the last 60 seconds of that game. he threw one bad pick right after half time

  51. macjacmccoy says: Jul 28, 2011 6:40 PM

    Like taking an unproven qb isnt always a risk. Was drafting Mathew Stafford and paying him a helluva lot of money a risk yes, and so far it hasnt paid off. Was Bradford yes, he seems to have been a good gamble. Was drafting Newton a risk yup. How bout Tebow or Ponder or Dalton or the Tenn. guy? Yea they all were.

    Every qb at 1 time has been unproven and a pretty big gamble and alot of teams spend alot more on that gamble then the Cardinals did on Kolb. The difference hear is Kolb has already proven that he does have the ability to play at an NFL level. Yes He has had some not so impressive games too, but they mostly came when he was thrust into the starting roll after an injury and didnt have a full week to prepare for the team with the starters or the opportunity to get settled or in a groove with his teammates . When he has had that time he put up performances like he did vs the 14-2 Falcons. He also is less of a gamble bc he has spent 4 seasons in the NFL being taught by the best qb coach in the league, learning an nfl system, the speed of the game, and what it takes to be an NFL player. Other teams that gamble on these unproven qbs cant say that about the players they draft.

    Who knows if the Kolb deal is going to pay off for the Cardinals (I personally think it will). What we do know is its no more a gamble then drafting a qb in the 1st round and the compensation is about the same. So why is everyone acting like the trade is so sensational?

  52. brasho says: Jul 28, 2011 6:41 PM

    Kevin Kolb is an adequate QB. At 6’3 218 lbs he has adequate size, he has an adequate arm, he has adequate athleticism, marginal experience, pretty good feet in the pocket, and a decent release. At soon-to-be 27 years old, I have serious doubts if he is worth a 2nd rounder on its own, let alone a Pro Bowl CB.

  53. buckybadger says: Jul 28, 2011 6:41 PM

    I am in the minority but the Eagles should have traded Vick. Vick will get hurt unless you change his style of play and in that case he won’t be as good. Vick was great last year until people got film on him and than we saw a huge drop off on his play. Can he adjust back? We will see but he couldn’t last year during the year and that isn’t a great sign.

    Vick also would have garnered a lot more in compensation even though the Eagles did a hell of a job here but they might have gotten 2 firsts and a player.

    If the Eagles didn’t know what they had in Kolb than they wouldn’t have gotten rid of McNabb last year. They know. It is like saying the Packers didn’t know what they had in Rodgers. They see these guys in practice and can project very well what they will do.

    I know Vick is the popular guy and has everyone’s imagination running wild but I would have cashed in on his hype at the moment and gone with the younger kid you have been grooming for the job all along. When [and its a when not if] Vick goes down from running around people will see my point. The guy is an injury waiting to happen. Love watching him play though.

  54. cowboysfanx20 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:41 PM

    Why would they trade so much when they could’ve gotten Orton for less and he’s proven

  55. larryfitzgerald4mvp says: Jul 28, 2011 6:43 PM

    Why are people so stupid. “Created another hole in the defense”. Toler isn’t bad and seriously, Patrick Peterson or DRC, tough choice. Not really…

  56. eaglesfan290 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:44 PM

    Hey look no one complains when Bill Belichick gets 10 first round picks for trading old players to the Raiders.

    The fact is someone has to be a good Coach and someone has to be a schmuck!

    See you guys again when we hav another QB to trade probably Vince Young!

  57. cubano76 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:45 PM

    Next Season Headline:

    Hey! Remember that QB the Eagles traded to Arizona? What was his name?

  58. indyeagle says: Jul 28, 2011 6:45 PM

    There is nothing worse in all of sports than “stat guy”. Please, for the love of God, watch the kid play a little before you throw out his stats as a reason he won’t succeed. Kolb has “it”. NFL talent evaluators see it, you bozos on your couch don’t. I wonder who knows more?????/

  59. c1d7 says: Jul 28, 2011 6:48 PM

    axespray says:
    Jul 28, 2011 6:25 PM
    umm….dude’s barely bigger than lil’ kevin kolb…
    he’s more a speed agile osi type pass rusher, but by all means let’s act ignorant.

    _______________________________
    Just tying to bring some humor to the blog sorry I upset the blog police. I don’t know anything about Matthews’ personal life but if you really believe Clay Matthews is “barely bigger than lil’ Kevin Kolb” then by all means lets act ignorant…

  60. laeaglefan says: Jul 28, 2011 6:51 PM

    One thing is for sure….Kolb is going to get a legitimate shot in Arizona…..after what they gave up to get him and the money that they’ll be paying him. I think its safe to say that the job is his to lose….and he’ll have to play pretty damn bad to lose the job.

  61. jimmysee says: Jul 28, 2011 6:54 PM

    Would the Cards have made that trade with the Packers? Matt Flynn ain’t chopped liver and Ted Thompson would love the draft pick!

  62. stairwayto7 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:10 PM

    I still have not heard or seen a CB leading his team to the playoffs..ITS THE QB! DRC is afraid to tackle and if you disagree you never seen him play, He will be exposed on national tv this year.

  63. sgtr0c says: Jul 28, 2011 7:12 PM

    From number 1, I am a Eagles fan and love the success that Andy Reid and staff have done but you make him out to be the darth vader of football coaches. Is he really that good to be smarter then Parcells and Shannyhan? Cause what you be saying, that he gets more out a qb then those two can.

  64. philsgoodman says: Jul 28, 2011 7:15 PM

    Some good points, but it’s time to stop taking QB rating seriously as a comprehensive measure of QB performance. QB rating is an example of a stat that is worth less than the sum of its parts…. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/25/stat-sheet-misconceptions-passer-rating/

  65. The Shoeman says: Jul 28, 2011 7:16 PM

    So many opinions ..

    Not so many facts.

    a.Why not mention that DRC lost his job to Toler ?

    b.Kolb is better than anything else the Cards, were getting.

    many of these opinions are based on a box score,
    not the actual games.

    c. ask the 49’ers if Kolb can play ?

    everyone knows the NFL better than NFL head coaches.

  66. dealer009 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:21 PM

    Nice post Mike. Enjoyed it.

  67. tinbender2000 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:22 PM

    Arizonia just took the Stupidest Trade Award from Seattle in my book.

  68. seabreezes51 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:23 PM

    Since the only place I have heard that the Eagles sent a #2 back to AZ was in that single sentence, I’m gonna guess that was a misstatement.

  69. davesbeard says: Jul 28, 2011 7:24 PM

    I find it remarkable how many professional NFL reporters fail to recognise that Kolb has had two NFC Player of the Week awards in his seven starts and that many of his interceptions and starts can be attributed to a porous defence. Sure he could have played better but I can’t think of many early starters who’ve played as well as Kolb.

  70. melonnhead says: Jul 28, 2011 7:25 PM

    It’s a point I’ve been making from time to time, both here and in other contexts. Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have gotten the absolute best out of every quarterback they’ve put on the field.

    —————————————————————-

    I agree, we’ve already seen the best of Kevin Kolb. QB’s like Vick, McNabb and Kolb are what I like to call “coach killers”. They show enough that you can’t cut them, but not enough to get you over the hump.

  71. melonnhead says: Jul 28, 2011 7:27 PM

    There is nothing worse in all of sports than “stat guy”. Please, for the love of God, watch the kid play a little before you throw out his stats as a reason he won’t succeed. Kolb has “it”. NFL talent evaluators see it, you bozos on your couch don’t. I wonder who knows more?????

    —————————————————————

    Yeah I’ve said the same thing about Tony Romo. Tell you what, when he passes Romo up maybe I’ll give Kolb the benefit of doubt.

  72. trigzter says: Jul 28, 2011 7:35 PM

    hey nfl25-

    don’t bother talking to PFT if you can’t get your facts straight. A close game until the 4th? Do you mean 4 minutes into the 3rd when they went up 31-13? Talk about not actually watching the games.

    Besides that, your other post goes to show 2 bad games (NO, Ten), and one solid game against the Falcons, like I said.

  73. goldrush36 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:36 PM

    indyeagle says: Jul 28, 2011 6:45 PM

    There is nothing worse in all of sports than “stat guy”. Please, for the love of God, watch the kid play a little before you throw out his stats as a reason he won’t succeed. Kolb has “it”. NFL talent evaluators see it, you bozos on your couch don’t. I wonder who knows more?????/

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sorry, but if so many evaluators see “it” why is it that the cards are the only ones who pursued “it” when the rest of the teams drafted someone or went an alternate route?

  74. drindt says: Jul 28, 2011 7:37 PM

    DRC is a ball hawk, but also gets burned deep OFTEN. Horton didnt want a soft corner. I see why he left. This article should have included the fact that Vick won’t be on the field very long and that Vince young will be helming the eagles… Good trade. Hope Kolb puts all of his haters to shame.

  75. goldrush36 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:38 PM

    History will show it certainly isn’t because the cardinals are so savvy with running a team.

  76. blaz0037 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:38 PM

    Amen!!

  77. mediasloppy says: Jul 28, 2011 7:39 PM

    11th take – Vick gets hurt and the Philly fans go absolutely ballistic, because Kolb has left the building and it becomes the talking point of PFT.

    I do think the Cards gave up too much though…

  78. teal379 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:40 PM

    Kolb’s gonna have to sink or swim but in the back of my head I keep thinking – “Dealing with the Eagles on QB’s is like trading pics with NE on draft day – you’re gonna get screwed”

    I won’t say I watched a ton of Kolb. I wanted to but Clay turned him into a tent peg and basically gave Vick the Eagles job in the process…

    He might be great but the halls of “crap QB’s” are filled with guys who impressed for a game or 3.

  79. goldrush94 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM

    Garcia had his best years in SF, and Vick had some pretty good season’s in ATL too, so let’s not go overboard on what great QB coaching Eagles have done. If that was the case, why so many QB’s?

    I think you were thinking about Indy, GB or NE.

  80. goldrush94 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:47 PM

    @indyeagle

    says: Jul 28, 2011 6:45 PM

    There is nothing worse in all of sports than “stat guy”. Please, for the love of God, watch the kid play a little before you throw out his stats as a reason he won’t succeed. Kolb has “it”. NFL talent evaluators see it, you bozos on your couch don’t. I wonder who knows more?????/
    ————————————————————–
    Yeah, NFL talent evaluators really see it! Cause there has never been a bad FA signing or draft pick.. especially the QB position.

  81. The Shoeman says: Jul 28, 2011 7:49 PM

    seabreezes51 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:23 PM

    Since the only place I have heard that the Eagles sent a #2 back to AZ was in that single sentence, I’m gonna guess that was a misstatement.

    **************************************************************

    Yeah … there was a typo on the NFL page.

    but,,he wants it to be true ?

  82. drexelvol says: Jul 28, 2011 7:51 PM

    “Even if that guy is Brett Favre.”

    In the words of Howard Stern’s father, Ben, don’t be stupid you moron.

  83. seahawksfan37 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:55 PM

    What if kolb plays great? The packers traded for brett farve. Remember? Farve wasn’t proven either. Packers got the biggest trade still in history besides the bucs an 49ers for Steve young. So kolb may work.

  84. jshawaii22 says: Jul 28, 2011 7:57 PM

    It was the best trade in NFL History!

    signed… all the fans of the Seahawks, Rams and 49’ers.

    js

  85. indyeagle says: Jul 28, 2011 7:59 PM

    Melon,

    I agree with you on Romo. Just because I’m a Eagles fan doesn’t mean I’m blind to how good Romo can be. I judge qb’s on two factors:

    1) What I see with my own eyes.

    2) How nervous I get the week before the Eagles face them. Romo makes me nervous, therefore, I must think he is pretty good.

    I don’t care what his numbers say. Same goes for Kolb. I’ve watched him play and I know what he is capable of. I’ve said it before and I will say it one last time, then I’m never commenting on here about it again. …………I will accept all the apologies from the Kolb haters come January.

  86. crubenst says: Jul 28, 2011 8:05 PM

    You ate WAY overrating a 2nd rnd pick. Especially if your looking for a qb. You act like good young qbs grow on trees. Like hall or skelton will be good. Maybe the eagles should have gotten a 1st rounded. Who would you rather have Christian ponder or Kevin Kolb? I rest my case.

  87. vbe2 says: Jul 28, 2011 8:17 PM

    @ infidelamriki says:Jul 28, 2011 6:16 PM

    It’s actually going WAY UNDER REPORTED that Philly is ALSO sending the Cardinals a 2nd round pick! “The Eagles later confirmed the deal and said they were sending a 2012 second-round pick to Arizona.” – http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210ca92/article/eagles-deal-kolb-to-cardinals-for-cb-rodgerscromartie-a-pick?module=HP11_cp
    =================================

    That’s a mistake in that article. Why would the Eagles swap 2nd round picks without knowing where in the second round the Cards will pick? Suppose the Eagles go 0-16 and the Cardinals win the Super Bowl? The Eagles would be dropping from the first pick of the 2nd round to the last pick and if it’s JUST the Eagles giving a 2nd rounder and Kolb for JUST DRC then the Cardinals raped the Eagles.

    Only the Cardinals are giving up the 2nd round pick (and DRC). The Eagles are only giving up Kolb.

  88. mdnittlion says: Jul 28, 2011 8:46 PM

    Hope Kafka isn’t the actual back-up option. I mean his back-up in college was actually better kind of like JaMarcus Russell and Matt Flynn

  89. realitypolice says: Jul 28, 2011 8:58 PM

    seahawksfan37 says:
    Jul 28, 2011 7:55 PM
    What if kolb plays great? The packers traded for brett farve. Remember? Farve wasn’t proven either. Packers got the biggest trade still in history besides the bucs an 49ers for Steve young. So kolb may work.
    ============================

    The Packers didn’t give up a Pro Bowl player and a second round draft pick for Brett Favre.

    Think about what you’re saying: a Pro Bowl player and a SECOND round draft pick for a player who “may work”?!?

    I think the defenders of the trade on here are missing the point. Kevin Kolb MAY turn out to be an above average NFL starter.

    But the price that the Cardinals paid, when they had no real remaining competition to get him, is way too high.

  90. aram42287 says: Jul 28, 2011 9:22 PM

    DRC is all speed….wake up call speed deminishes with age. He got burnt so many times last year….Plus Cardinals got Peterson

  91. aram42287 says: Jul 28, 2011 9:22 PM

    Its funny how all of a sudden all nfl fans think he is a shut down corner, when in fact a few months ago he was a bum.

  92. jimkempner says: Jul 29, 2011 1:57 AM

    Those are silly arguments. Kolb should be compared to a 1st round, unproven qb coming out of college. I’d guess half the 1st rounders taken this year will not succeed, i.e., will not become solid starters. Kolb on the other hand has a started a few NFL games and performed well enough to be named player of the week. To me that means he has more upside, more potential to be very good than any 1st rounder. And if a team cannot get as much out of a qb as Andy Reid and company can, then the problem is with the coaching and not with the qb.

  93. robotyoster says: Jul 29, 2011 2:12 AM

    everyone saying cards should have gone for orton because the cost was way cheaper…look at orton’s completion % was on 3rd down last year. also, look where denver finished last year.

  94. sasquatchery says: Jul 29, 2011 8:29 AM

    I also think people are overlooking the fact that, while entertaining, DRC was a bit of a pansy in the backfield. He had his Deion moments when he didn’t want to hit anyone and would take a play or two off. His inconsistency was troubling. Add that with Horton’s new philosophy on D and it adds up to a “pro-bowler” who no longer fits the system. So the loss – while definitely a loss, sure – isn’t as big as most people thing.

    Look, Philly fans have another thing coming if they think he’s gonna be the end-all be-all on the right side of the field. If it weren’t for Rodgers overthrowing what’s-his-name, DRC would have been run out of town…

    just saying.

  95. rdixon50 says: Jul 29, 2011 11:19 AM

    Everyone in America has heard about the Philly fans. Throwing snowballs at your own team, booing Santa Claus, etc.

    You can act intelligent and like you know something about football AFTER you win a Super Bowl. Until then , you don’t (and can’t) count. Schmucks.

  96. mogogo1 says: Jul 29, 2011 11:40 AM

    The new contract with the huge guaranteed money is what shocked me. I guess the idea is to take a bit of pressure off Kolb by showing they’re committed to him long-term, but that’s a ton of money they’ll never get back if he doesn’t cut it. And they have no Plan B on the roster that I can see, so if Kolb struggles, they’re completely done…and Whisenhunt is likely gone.

  97. mogogo1 says: Jul 29, 2011 11:44 AM

    robotyoster says:

    everyone saying cards should have gone for orton because the cost was way cheaper…look at orton’s completion % was on 3rd down last year. also, look where denver finished last year.
    _______________________________

    Their defense was horrible, they had no running game to speak of, the line was dominated by rookies, and Josh McDaniels was a train wreck as a coach. They could have had Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas splitting time at QB and still finished in the basement. I don’t think Orton is great, but blaming him for Denver’s problems last year shows a serious lack of knowledge.

  98. pthepro49 says: Jul 29, 2011 9:15 PM

    I am so glad AZ is in the 49ers division. They will be lucky if they win 5 games again. They completely blew the franchise on Kolb. To pay a guy 63million who has started only 7 games, has more interceptions than TD’s, and has a losing record as a started. This is Scott Mitchell all over again except it is AZ instead of Miami. What a joke!!!

  99. goahead9 says: Jul 29, 2011 11:23 PM

    pthepro69!!

    We’ll see! Early to tell. You think niners are money?

  100. purpleisreallypinkyouknow says: Jul 30, 2011 11:17 AM

    I’d put some side money up on Kold being knocked out for awhile, or maybe even put on the IR, between weeks 4 and week 10.

    They’ll be out of the playoff race by week 11, regardless. That schedule will prove brutal on AZ.

  101. sc5000 says: Jul 31, 2011 11:55 AM

    FLEECE JOB!! Anyone ever think that is doesn’t matter what his stats are, Andy Reid has had a lot of guys play there best football for HIM! I don’t think that is a by chance.

  102. shadowgm1 says: Aug 3, 2011 1:16 PM

    Ten takes by team front offices OTHER than the swindling Eagles and the gullible Cardinals:

    1. Awful trade
    2. Shocking trade
    3. Dreadful trade
    4. Atrocious trade
    5. Horriffic trade
    6. Deplorable trade
    7. Distressing trade
    8. Appalling trade
    9. Repulsive trade
    10. Abominable trade

  103. ur2smooth says: Aug 3, 2011 1:45 PM

    What’s funny is the Eagles will lose Vick to an Injury and then you guys have to hope that the head case you guys just signed as a back-up will carry your team. Kolb is a risk but it was risk the Cards had to take to keep Fitzgerald. That alone is worth it.

  104. steelerjon says: Aug 5, 2011 12:53 PM

    For the most part, the Iggles have gotten the most of of their QB’s under Andy Reid. The excpetions being Doug Pederson (who tutored Donovan) and Mike McMahon (who played during one of Don’s injuries). Both were god-awlful!!!!

  105. dsio602 says: Aug 10, 2011 11:48 PM

    You guys are stupid. DRC is waaay overrated. Fitz had 1100 yards with mediocre QB’s throwin at him. Can you imagine with a decent QB like Kolb. Good God….

  106. nycoccet says: Aug 14, 2011 3:35 PM

    The kolb trade is nothing like the other qb trades the eagles have made. AJ Feely was a late round draft pick that no one was too high on his talent. He had a couple good games and the Eagles turned it into a high pick. Kolb was an early 2nd round pick , that Reid took when mcnabb was.in his prime and wasn’t a need pick. The Cardinals made the right move to acquire him. If they draft a qb he has to be groomed and coached up to start. Kolb is high pick talent and ready to.start. they gave up a 2nd rd pick for a qb that was a 2nd rd pick but has been taught under some of the best coaches for 4 yrs and that’s def worth something(DRC).would u give up a 1st founder for A Rodgers after he sat behind favre learning?.

  107. nycoccet says: Aug 14, 2011 3:49 PM

    As for the veteran qb argument, its not the long term solution. There’s a reason y these vet qbs are available. They.are past their prime and on their way out and they would be back where they started in a year, looking for a solution to their qb problem. I’m not saying that Kolb is Aaron Rodgers but its along the lines of how Rodgers was brought along Both high round guys who sat learned and coached. They get a guy ready to start but someone.else put in all the.time and effort to get him ready. It’s not.like 1 or2 guys think he’s good. He was the talk of the off-season and there was a bunch of gms who said Kolb is the Mc coy.

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