“@recon16 and various trolls . . .”

Do you define a troll as anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoint? If so you have a lifetime of trolls ahead of you…..

“@recon16 and various trolls . . .”

Do you define a troll as anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoint? If son you have a lifetime of trolls ahead of you…..

” . . .meaning they did it one time in 2005 to get the stadium to a reasonable size (from 77 to 67).”

Yes they did do it just once. I have never argued that they added more tarps. I just pointed out that they did it once and left them in place.

“Not sure what your point is on ROI – Obviously if someone buys the Jags (which Weaver has said repeatedly won’t happen) of course they would be buying to move the team, not to stay in the same small market.”

Yes that is my point so it appears you are sure as to what it is.

“But good luck with whatever team comes to LA….hopefully you wont lose this one like the others…..”

Probably not for another 20 years or until a new stadium is needed.

Not sure what your point is on ROI – Obviously if someone buys the Jags (which Weaver has said repeatedly won’t happen) of course they would be buying to move the team, not to stay in the same small market. Everyone understands LA is the largest market.

But good luck with whatever team comes to LA….hopefully you wont lose this one like the others…..

“Except for 2009 when this false perception was created, Jags avg low 60K despite being near the bottom in market size, avg attendance better than Chicago and a little worse than Pittsburgh. Please Buffalo fans, stfu, its not even close.”

2009 was an exceptionally bad year for Jags attendance, but one year did not the perception make. From 2000-2003 the average attendance was 58k. The team has been noted for blackout issues. The 2003 and 2004 seasons saw 6 of eight games blacked out which led to the tarps being installed for the 2005 season. Once the tarps were installed the blackout problem went away for one whole season. By 2007 the Jags were again running into black outs. So the perception is not from a single season, it has been built up over the years. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best or an intentional lie at worse.

As for Buffalo, they have issues because they are in a city that is shrinking, has little to no corporate presence, and is in a depressed economic area. The population needed to support the NFL franchise is melting away. I believe the Bills franchise will move away in the future.

“When the lockout ended (remember that thing that dampened ticket sales) There were 17K seats unsold, now there are about 8500. Both Miami and Tampa have thousands more to sell”

Other PFT stories recognizes this. Any particular reason you repeated it? I would offer you are looking to paint J’Ville in a positive light when compared to the other two cities in an attempt to distract.

“Without tarps, Everbank would be a 77K seat stadium. The tarps were a 1 time deal in 2005 to reduce the effective stadium size from 77 to 67, in line (or bigger) than every small to medium market. So when you are averaging 60-65 week in and week out, one could say you have a pretty good fan base in one of the smallest markets in the US.”

Tarps were not a one time thing. They have remained since the 2005 season. Yes one could say it is a good fan base, but one could also argue that the inability to fill the bowl and club sections on a regular basis demonstrates that the fan base can only be enticed out by discounts, games of significance, and promotions.

“Weaver is very passionate about Jacksonville, has been absolutely consistent in that he will not move the team and when he sells the team it will be to someone or someones who are passionate about this cool city. (cool meaning winters at the beach, great golf courses, etc…..have fun cleveland and buffalo, chicago, DC traffic, and all the other haters) Just because PFT makes up stories about a potential move it doesnt mean it has any chance of happening.”

I have no comment on Weaver’s passion, but I will agree that he is committed to the area. He has also made statements in the past that he cannot continue to do business at a 45-50k attendance clip. Your assumption that he will sell the team to someone committed to the J’Ville area is hopeful speculation as it remains to be seen who he actually sells to.

I also find it interesting that you note that there are plenty of things to do in J’Ville. Are you arguing that the city will continue to be cool after the Jags leave? If so, why the concern?

Just because you believe the team will not move, does not mean it will not happen. I would argue that it will come down to a business decision. The Jags are at the bottom of the value/revenue charts (New Forbes listing should be out very soon, let’s see if that continues to hold true.) which means that any potential owner will need to look at the bottom line. A move to LA in a new stadium has been analyzed by sports business professional to increase a franchises value to near Cowboys level. So if an owner buys the Jags at $800 mill – $1 bill. What do you think the ROI will need to be to make such a sale profitable? And more importantly, can remaining in the J’Ville area make it so?

I will just point to one element that will reinforce my point: The naming rights for EverBank were sold for $16.6 million for five years or about $3 mill a year. The naming rights for a stadium that hasn’t been built in LA sold for $700 million for 20 years or about $35 mill a year.

The base fact is that J’Ville cannot compete with that kind of economic incentives. That is a key reason why the Jags are an oft mentioned target of a move.

And the “it can be expanded to 84k capacity” is irrelevant since that’s for 1 college game a year, and is not now and never will be figured in for an NFL game. That section is brought in and taken out after it’s 1 game. No one sees that empty and says Jacksonville sucks as an NFL city.

As a former season ticket holder when I lives there I would like to remind everyone of the empty seats in the stadium when the team was winning the AFC Central title for 2 years and the excuses like it’s the holidays I was out shopping was the excuse of the day. I remember a pool of businesses and media got together to agree to the purchase of at least 2 games in 1999 to avoid the blackouts (that was the 14-2, homefield throughout the playoffs year). When it got worse and blackouts started the whining was “the stadium is too big, we dont have enough people to sell this place out.” So in 2005 Weaver tarped 10K seats. So, tha worked…..until week 1 of 2005 against the Seahawks with the tarped seats and they needed a 24 hour extension three times to sell out. In other words “the stadium is too big” was just another of the many excuses. Now it’s the economy which I get, but $33 for tickets paid for over 12 months or whateve it is is very cheap and yet they still don’t sell out. Parking? Take that bus if they still offer it. Food? Eat before you go or eat it in the parking lot before you go in. That’s what we did. All these excuses are pathetic.

For those who truly want to go and can’t afford it, I understand your concern as when I was out of work I couldnt buy Sunday Ticket last year to watch the Jags since I no longer live in the area. That cost as much as season tickets do now. For those who don’t want to go, that’s your prerogative too. But don’t whine and complain when they move to Orlando, San Antonio, LA, or to the city that loses the team to LA once that city realizes they screwed up and build a new stadium for football. The NFL is a business. It is professional sports. They arent there for charity and the sole purpose of entertaining you. They are just like any other business, they are there to make money and as much of it as they can. If enough of you dont support them and they can make more elsewhere, they are gonna leave….period. And you’ll never see the light of day of another major professional sport team again(arena football doesn’t count). Vic Ketchman before he bailed out said it best, want the talk of leaving to stop then sell the games out.

Btw, college is all about money too. Conference jumping, Longhorn Network, and the stupid BCS is proof of that. So that excuse doesnt fly either.

As a former season ticket holder when I lives there I would like to remind everyone of the empty seats in the stadium when the team was winning the AFC Central title for 2 years and the excuses like it’s the holidays I was out shopping was the excuse of the day. I remember a pool of businesses and media got together to agree to the purchase of at least 2 games in 1999 to avoid the blackouts (that was the 14-2, homefield throughout the playoffs year). When it got worse and blackouts started the whining was “the stadium is too big, we dont have enough people to sell this place out.” So in 2005 Weaver tarped

1) Except for 2009 when this false perception was created, Jags avg low 60K despite being near the bottom in market size, avg attendance better than Chicago and a little worse than Pittsburgh. Please Buffalo fans, stfu, its not even close.

2) When the lockout ended (remember that thing that dampened ticket sales) There were 17K seats unsold, now there are about 8500. Both Miami and Tampa have thousands more to sell

3) Without tarps, Everbank would be a 77K seat stadium. The tarps were a 1 time deal in 2005 to reduce the effective stadium size from 77 to 67, in line (or bigger) than every small to medium market. So when you are averaging 60-65 week in and week out, one could say you have a pretty good fan base in one of the smallest markets in the US.

4) Weaver is very passionate about Jacksonville, has been absolutely consistent in that he will not move the team and when he sells the team it will be to someone or someones who are passionate about this cool city. (cool meaning winters at the beach, great golf courses, etc…..have fun cleveland and buffalo, chicago, DC traffic, and all the other haters) Just because PFT makes up stories about a potential move it doesnt mean it has any chance of happening.

5) Gene Smith has completely rebuilt this defense and team the right way and has a potential franchise QB in the wings. Last year this team, 2 years into complete rebuild, was 8-5 and played to clinch the division in Indy in week 15 with the 28th ranked D and Garrard and MJD playing hurt. Go ahead, keep bashing this team, we are going to enjoy the next few years boys.

who cares? worry more about the status of your team. we’ll just call you “carolina south” this year….

I’m so tired of hearing tarps. Especially when no one know the true reason behind them. Look, This stadium holds 77, 864 and can be expanded to 84K. 10K tarps were added to bring the # down to 67, 164. On par with every single small-medium market team. It’s actually larger than most stadiums in the league even with the tarps.

Tarps are not added year after year like morons on here insist. It was a one time deal back in 2005. I respect the fact you say you don’t want them to move. I would never wish that on any fan. No one should want any team to move, but that’s the divide the media has cause with the hatred towards this franchise.

No one remembers the Pats of the 90′s, they were put 30K in the stands. The same for Arizona. Indy couldn’t put butts in the seats up until Peyton arrived and even that wasn’t until they started winning in 2003. This is what the internet has done. People believe Jax invented blackouts and ticket issues, but have zero clue of the history of the NFL.

Raiders are the front runner for the Los Angeles move.

Oblivious or ignorant?? Well documented the Jags needed corporations to scoop up the tickets and they STILL had to put up the black tarps. Time to accept the obvious..they dont have a huge fan base. Trust me..I dont want them to leave and move to LA.

“Bills don’t really struggle to sell tickets . . .Buffalo is the second poorest city in the US and one of the smallest markets and they still sell out games. In a stadium of 76,000″

2010 Average Buffalo attendance? 63k. 87% of the stadium filled. Ranked 29th in the NFL. Three blackouts by December 9.

Need more?

“We will still have a higher average attendance then many teams in the league, like we do every year.”

Really?

2010- 21st
2009- 31st
2008- 17th

Shall I go on?

“It’s so easy for some of you to waste everybody’s time by acting like you know something because you heard it somewhere.”

Hmmmmm………you mean like you?

“Do everyone a favor and just be quiet.”

And you got elected as the arbiter of what can and cannot be discussed? Missed that memo.

I don’t know if I’d agree that Jacksonville is being “beat up” by the press. The franchise is receiving more attention to its less-than-robust ticket sales precisely because it is one of the youngest franchises in the NFL.
There is a perception that it was a mistake (and that’s the most charitable term) to award Jacksonville a franchise when Baltimore and St. Louis — two cities where the NFL had previously thrived — were passed over. That decision ultimately contributed to the departure of teams in two long-established markets (Cleveland and Southern California), which had far-reaching effects on the NFL as whole.
By overachieving in securing a team over more “deserving” municipalities, the Jacksonville market created a higher bar for success.
Thus, the increased scrutiny from outside observers.

Green. Bay.

The NFL has enacted a rule to prevent that sort of community ownership model from happening again, but how can you argue with it? The smallest fanbase has probably the longest season-ticket waiting list, and negotiations with the state for stadium upgrades can proceed on the basis that the NFL is committed to that community, and not just jacking them around for a better deal (MN).

Yet it is the Jags, one of the youngest franchises in the NFL that gets beat up by the press.

Week one will not be blacked-out in Jville. Neither will their second game (week 4) which has only 6,000 tickets left.

Bank on it!

So far the o-line looks bad(and has no depth).

This season could be real ugly.

Better get the Tarpy the Tarp mascot costume out of mothballs.