I point out Ward’s measurables because that’s what each team evaluates with every prospect. That’s why they measure & weigh everyone and run them thru drills at the combine.

The problem with having the conversation you suggest with Ward is I think most teams didn’t view him as a legitimate QB prospect, much like the following Heisman Trophy winners: Doug Flutie (11th rnd) Ty Detmer (9th) Gino Torretta (7th) Danny Wuerffle (4th) Chris Weinke (4th) and Jason White (undrafted). The difference is those guys didn’t have the skill set to play any other position, where Ward did. A white Heisman QB comparable to Ward in athleticism would be Eric Crouch, and he was told he would be switching positions. Other white college QBs such as Matt Jones, Julian Edelman & Scott Frost switched positions when they got to the pros.

Besides, the NFL doesn’t feel the need to entice someone to come play in their league and most certainly weren’t going to start with someone who was a project and had another professional league to fall back on. In any case, it isn’t evident his was a racially motivated situation.

Who knows with Jacksonville, they’re a mess from top to bottom and they need to figure out where they’re headed and how to get there. Don’t really seem to have a plan right now.

When I said upper mangement, I wasn’t talking about player personnnel types. I was talking about oppurtunities for placement and advancement for African Americans in the upper echelons of team mangement. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the influence of race when it comes to player decisions.

I know there have been many great examples of African American pioneers when it comes to playing the QB position, but I’ll tell you, Cam Newton just might be one of the most important. While he was never considered a candidate to move to another position; he was thought to be a work in progress. He had tons of skills but many questioned some of his mechanics, the type of offense he ran in college, his propensity to make a one read and run, his character, his lack of experience, his accuracy and his ability to pick up a pro-style offense quickly and read defenses. Then Newton comes out and almost immediately crushes all of those concerns for the most part. (And despite all of those concerns heading into the draft, Newton despite being black, was still the #1 over-all pick in the draft. Go figure!)

You made a statement about Ward being a pitcher; implying that meant he had a strong arm for football. I was giving you reasons why that isn’t neccessarily true.

The cutting of Garrard was a financial decision, the team saved money when it released him. And seeing that shortly after he needed back surgery, perhaps the Jags could see he wasn’t going to help them win.

What are you talking about with Collins? He got hurt! How could the Colts know that was going to happen?

If you’re looking for it, you can interpret anything wrong and perceive it in a particular way. You’re examples of proving it as fact so far have been weak at best.

I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist in the NFL (just look at upper mangement positions). I’m sure it does just about anywhere. I just don’t think it does when it comes to who plays, where they play, how much they play. There’s too much evidence to believe otherwise.

- The original post was concerning the NFL switching black QBs to another position. Aikman, Gruden, Jaworski and every other analyst have no power in personnel decisions for any team in the NFL.

- Contradictory statements are constantly made regardless of race.

- Jaworski was more than likely upset at the suggestions of replacing the #1 over-all pick from just two drafts ago. Why would you replace a young franchise QB who has shown he has the skills to win so soon? Jaws would have been upset if Gruden had said Barkley instead of Griffin.

- The reality is some positions are more valuable than others. More valuable leads to more leverage.

- The point of the article excerpt was Ward was passed over entirely in the draft because of his own words; not because of racial overtones you implied.

- Charlie Ward was measured @ 6 feet even, not his listed 6-2. He was also slight; 190 lbs.

- The size & shape of the balls in baseball & football are very different. The distance you throw them are also different. The mechanics used to throw them are different. One has nothing to do with the other.

One’s reality can distort perceptioncausing one to perceive things that aren’t really there. This does an enormous amount of damage to the situations where racism really does exist.

@ truthserum4u:

First of all, Aikman is employed by Fox Sports, which televises NFL games. Secondly, obviously, your perception of Aikman’s analysis differs from mine. In addition, the examples I gave were those that just came to mind, but there are others in Aikman’s position, who make similar comments. I guess you weren’t watching Monday night’s game between the Seahawks and 49ers. During the game, John Gruden suggested that the Rams should draft RG III. Ron Jaworski’s reaction and comments at the mere suggestion of the Rams drafting RG III said it all, he was visibly agitated by the possibility of that happening. Why???
In regards to the CJ2K and Ryan Fitzpatrick situation. Position should not factor into contract leverage. If you are performing at a level that warrants a pay raise, you should get it regardless of the positon you play. Buffalo took care of Fitzpatrick without his prodding. After CJ2K ran for 2000 yards, he should have been taken care of, as he had obviously outperformed his salary. Forte’ is another example of the aforementioned situation.
Charlie Ward’s height and arm strength??? Ward was drafted by the Brewers in ’93 and the Yankees in ’94…as a PITCHER. He stood 6’2″, that’s taller than Drew Brees, the same height as Gino Toretta and an inch taller than Danny Wuerffel.
I’ll end this like I started it: One’s perception is ones reality…

Wow! That’s your evidence of racial bias? Some leap!

First of all Aikman is an analyst; he has no power or authority in personnal decisions for any team in the NFL. And that is after all, what the original post was talking about.

But let’s examine your proof non-the-less.

Aikman, as well as nearly every other analyst, makes contradictory evaluations on similiar plays constantly. Some in favor of African American players and against white (including QBs). I’ve seen it done with two players of the same skin color. I’ve seen it done with the SAME player in the SAME game! It seems they feel the need to make a comment, so they do, regardless if they just said the opposite only moments before. Hardly select scrutiny or racism.

Onto the C Johnson/R Fitzpatrick comparison.

Fitzpatrick didn’t hold out; Johnson did. Ryan wasn’t demanding money; Chris was. RF didn’t do his bidding thru the media; CJ did. This may not seem like a big deal – but it is. When you go public with how good you think you are and have a price your’re insisting on attached, then you better produce or you will justifiably get scritinized. As further proof, compare Johnson’s negotiations to Adrian Peterson’s. Two RBs, both at the top of their craft, both black, both looking for new deals. Production aside, they were viewed very differently during their negotiations. By the way, Johnson’s recent big games have come against teams ranked in the bottom 9 in run defense.

Regarding the second part of the RF/CJ comparison: The contract leverage was different because of the position the two men play, not the color of their skin. A good QB is viewed as much more valuable in today’s NFL than a RB; and you need one to win. QBs are considered more important; RBs are considered replacable. All of the top teams have at least a very good QB and many don’t have a top-tier RB. Besides, Johnson wasn’t coming off his 2,000 yard season. He was coming off a 1300+ season where he averaged a modest 4.3 per carry.

Comparing Tebow and Ward doesn’t have it’s merits either. One guy valued Tebow as a first rounder and selected him. He was criticized for it.

I’ll let Ward’s own agent explain why Ward wasn’t drafted per an SI article:

There had also been some questions about Ward’s height and arm strength, but the central issue, it seems, was his intentions. “The NFL wanted Charlie to make a commitment to football,” said Ward’s agent, Eugene Parker, after the draft, “but Charlie always said that if a team didn’t take him until after the first round, it wouldn’t be able to sign him.”

Not seeing any racism there. Now it most assuredly does exist out in the world and probably in some corners of the NFL. But when it comes to the playing field, the NFL sees one color only, and that’s green.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12/11/insider-questions-about-raiders-palmers-toughness

Taken from the link above:
“You look at Buffalo’s decision to extend (QB Ryan) Fitzpatrick. It was kind of like buying a stock. His stock went through the roof, and Buffalo said — I am going to buy it. The next thing you know, the price cuts in half. What happens if the Bills start negotiating now — would they have paid what they did? You never negotiate when a guy has all the leverage.”

CJ2K had all the leverage in the world after rushing for over 2,00o yards. Yet, was he taken care of?
Fitzpatrick has three or four great games and he’s given a meal ticket. Go figure…

The NFL is about winning and $. Teams don’t care if youre white, black, green or purple. Drop the racial crap for once.

You dont hear criticism of TJax, Vick, and other running QB’s, yet Tebow gets crucified.

The “racial crap” will cease when elements of it are long gone. Currently, they’re alive in well. For instance, I was watching a game a couple of weeks back with Troy Aikman doing the broadcast. A QB throws the ball behind the WR on a crossing route over the middle. Aikman says that the WR has to help his QB out in that situation and make the catch. No reference made about the ball thrown. Fast forward to a week later, another QB throws a ball behind the WR, on a crossing route over the middle, and Aikman’s all over the QB about how poorly of a thrown ball that was. The former QB was White, the latter was Black. Is it selective scrutiny, or is it racism??? Another example, the critics were all over CJ2K after he signed that extension and finally got his money. Yeah he stunk it up a few games, but now, he’s resembling his old self. After he signed his extension for $59 million, Ryan Fitzpatrick stunk it up the next game, and is still stinking, and you barely here a peep from the critics, until recently. Is it selective scrutiny, or is it racism??? Finally, I’m going back on this one, but when one really thinks about it, it is very relevant considering the Tebow-Mania we’re experiencing. Considering Tebow’s style as a QB, and the fact that he was drafted in the 1st-round, and to think that Charlie Ward wasn’t drafted at all, is insulting to one’s intelligence when you say drop the “racial crap”. Dropping the “racial crap”, is essentially turning a blind eye to reality.

This is why I wish that Limp-Wristed Eagles owner Lurie would fire Reid and hire Gruden. The idiot-savant head coach resigned Vick for umpteen years at 100 million and he’s way to stupid to draft RGIII. Oh God, why are we so cursed?
==================================

You’re so right. I can’t wait to trade Vick for a Gruden-groomed QB like Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Chris Simms or Luke McCown.

Oh, wait.

If the Eagles hire Jon Gruden, I’ll be convinced that they’ve given up and instead decided to just give the fans what they want. Which is NEVER a good idea.

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Wrong. I suspect that whichever team ends up with Griffin will have to custom fit their offense to his skill set about as much as the Patriots had to adjust their offense to fit Brady’s skill set. If I were a betting man, I’d bet even up that he goes in the top 3 and I’d take 3-1 odds that he’s the number 1 overall pick.

By the way, I have no idea why earthtopft said RG3 is a dick. I have seen him in numerous interviews and don’t get that vibe.

Maybe the Fins can keep Suckin for Griffin!
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You do realize that doesn’t rhyme and makes no sense, right? Well, except for the Fins suckin part. That’s accurate.

You mean like they did with Cam Newton? err…..Tavaris Jackson? er……..Josh Freeman? er……Joe Webb? er………Colin Kaepernick?

Wake up, fool. The day when black QB’s are routinely forced to switch positions are long gone. Sure college QBs that are athletic but can’t make it as a pro style QB are sometimes switched.

You know, like Matt Jones, Julian Edelman, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch.

Oh, wait, those guys are all white.

What did he do to you to piss you off so much? I’m gonna go ahead and guess you’re a Big 12 fan that can’t get over Baylor beating your usually superior team?

Listen to the guy talk, he’s well mannered and seems to be smart. Supremely talented and very accurate. Will fit nicely into a structured NFL team because of discipline instilled in him by his military parents.

There’s no way anyone but Luck is going 1st overall, but given the success of mobile QB’s that look to throw first (newton, and even Big Ben), he’ll go high.

Lay a turd for Griffin the third!!