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Jim Schwartz on facemask: Refs missed calls both ways

deandrylevy AP

Lions coach Jim Schwartz acknowledges that facemasking should have been called on the Lions when Vikings quarterback Joe Webb fumbled on the game’s final play on Sunday. Schwartz just doesn’t think it’s fair to single out that one missed call in a game that had missed calls both ways.

Yeah, we grabbed the facemask, but there are probably about three or four other plays in that game where guys got a facemask or guys got a hold,” Schwartz said, via MLive.com.

Of course, there are missed calls against both teams in every game. But a missed call on a blatant facemask on the last play of the game, when the result of the game might have been different if the call had been made, is bigger than most missed calls.

The penalties Schwartz named that the officials failed to call against the Vikings were a horse-collar tackle on Lions return man Stefan Logan and two different plays where the Vikings picked up first downs and should have been called for holding. But he said he’s not complaining about those.

“Every single play in the NFL, there’s something the officials are going to miss – get right, get wrong,” Schwartz said. “It’s one of the reasons I don’t stand up here and talk about officiating. I generally just say, ‘It’s their job to officiate; it’s our job to play,’ because we know it’s a fast game; it’s a very difficult game to officiate.”

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112 Responses to “Jim Schwartz on facemask: Refs missed calls both ways”
  1. dizzack says: Dec 13, 2011 7:39 AM

    By no means a ‘make up call,’ the game was loosely officiated, at best.

  2. lionsfan54 says: Dec 13, 2011 7:41 AM

    It wouldn’t be a day on PFT without a post bashing the Lions. Well done, you’ve filled today’s quota.

    Why don’t you football experts clarify the rule… if the ball came out before the facemask, how is possession ruled?

  3. kwgator says: Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM

    Quit whining Coach Schwartz. The Lions should be one of the feel good stories of the year. The attitude and actions of the entire organization make the Lions hard to cheer for.

  4. cmdv8 says: Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM

    payback for the calvin johnson rule!!!
    nuff said

  5. megatron1120 says: Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM

    There we go, had the holding have been called on that fourth down play, because the vikings weer holding a lot, then that final play wouldnt have even happened, keep crying lions haters!

  6. knucklehead93 says: Dec 13, 2011 7:46 AM

    Wow, Schwartz finally said something intelligent.

  7. rollinghillsgolfer says: Dec 13, 2011 7:55 AM

    I really have gotten where I dislike this turd. I believe it’s going to end badly for him

  8. theytukrjobs says: Dec 13, 2011 7:58 AM

    Of course officials miss calls. But this was a massive facemask on the ball carrier. It turned his head 180 degrees.

    He is wrong on the Logan horsecollar. I know what play he is talking about and it was a borderline call at best. As for “they were holding on a bunch of plays” I’d say he has to be more specific and also understand that there is a big difference between missing a facemask on the QB during an attempted tackle and missing one of the 5 to 7 guys blocking.

    Can’t they just be gracious for a lucky missed call? It would have only gotten the play re-run.

  9. hahahadannywatkins says: Dec 13, 2011 7:59 AM

    @kwgator.. Hit the weights, take a shower, get a clue! Much respect for coach “I see your Schwartz is bigger than mine”!
    He’s absolutely consistent. Stating facts here he is. No complaining… Same as after Calvin-rule game and Suh Tackling-Cutler-Too-Hard game.

  10. metzgerf says: Dec 13, 2011 8:01 AM

    Let me pose this question to everyone who is blaming this game on the missed facemask call: Is that missed call the reason the Vikings O-line got obliterated at the snap and allowed a D-tackle to get a hand on Webb before he was even done dropping back? Is that missed call the reason the Vikings were in the position to have to come back from 3 TDs down? Is that missed call the reason why Detroit’s defense scored 14 points? Seriously…..everyone needs to know that you cannot blame the outcome of a game on a bad call or a no-call. It sucks when games end that way, but that missed call is not the reason the Vikings lost the game.

  11. jnbnet says: Dec 13, 2011 8:03 AM

    cmdv8 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM
    payback for the calvin johnson rule!!!
    nuff said

    ################################
    Who is “Nuff”, and when did he say “payback for the calvin johnson rule!!!”?

  12. righton989 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:04 AM

    Coach Swartzie is making sure that Ndamnpsychoh Sueh gets extra doses of ‘roids when he returns.

  13. pixelito says: Dec 13, 2011 8:06 AM

    Schwartzawhiner

  14. 2difshoe says: Dec 13, 2011 8:08 AM

    Jim, it’s called karma…when your team learns to play between the whistles and limit their personal foul calls, you may get the ‘ benefit of the doubt’ calls.

    Also, it doesn’t help when your players are pushing ref’s on the field ( Pettigrew ).

    Get your team in order, and maybe flags will be evenly thrown. Capiche !!!

  15. ballinmore says: Dec 13, 2011 8:09 AM

    As someone with no affiliation to the Lions I’ll say the first 5 weeks I hoped this team would keep winning. Now I hope they collapse.

    I don’t understand how any other coach in the league who clearly has no control of his team would get ridiculed yet this guy gets praised.

  16. lks311 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:10 AM

    knucklehead93 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:46 AM
    Wow, Schwartz finally said something intelligent.
    _________________________________
    knucklehead, Schwartz has an economic degree from Georgetown…where’d you go to school?

  17. eaglebobby says: Dec 13, 2011 8:13 AM

    Lionsfan54, it doesn’t matter when the ball came out. Just like when the defense intercepts the ball, but gets called for roughing the passer. The turnover gets wiped out and the penalty is enforced.

    Amen ballinmore. This Lions team reminds me of the 95 Lions. This team pushes the physicality towards the illegal hits that you see them putting out weekly. That team talked too much–and gave up 58 points in their only playoff game.

  18. primetime0552 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:13 AM

    kwgator says:Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM

    Quit whining Coach Schwartz. The Lions should be one of the feel good stories of the year. The attitude and actions of the entire organization make the Lions hard to cheer for.

    ============================

    What exactly is he whining about? He was asked a question and answered it.

    ————————————————

    lionsfan54 says:Dec 13, 2011 7:41 AM

    It wouldn’t be a day on PFT without a post bashing the Lions. Well done, you’ve filled today’s quota.

    Why don’t you football experts clarify the rule… if the ball came out before the facemask, how is possession ruled?

    ==============================

    The ball would have went back to the vikings. Webb fumbled and then the facemask quickly followed. Nobody recoved the ball for another 40 yards or so. If the Lions would have recoved the ball before the facemask happened then the Lions would keep the ball. Since nobody has possession on the ball when the foul occured the offense would have kept possession.

  19. fwippel says: Dec 13, 2011 8:13 AM

    lionsfan54 says:

    Why don’t you football experts clarify the rule… if the ball came out before the facemask, how is possession ruled?

    The rule is this: regardless of when the fumble occurred, the penalty is enforced, and the Vikings keep the ball. The penalty yardage in this instance was half the distance to the goal, with one untimed down. Even if the ball had been fumbled prior to the facemask pull, the rule doesn’t assume the possession will change.

  20. lks311 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:16 AM

    These comments were from the coaches weekly press conference. Every NFL coach has one, for those that don’t know. He was asked a question and answered it. Not sure what the folks here wanted him to say…”yeah we held the facemask and should have been penalized and the play run again”. This is not golf folks, you don’t call penalties on yourself.

    He acknowledged the play, commented on others that were missed against his team and said let’s move on—as should MDS.

  21. eaglebobby says: Dec 13, 2011 8:18 AM

    I wonder if it was the same officiating crew that missed the facemask on Eagles QB Vince Young in the Pats game. In that game, the Eagles were nursing a 10-7 lead, and one of their LBs came through on a blitz, sacked young, but did so by grabbing his facemask and twisting his head around. No call and the Eagles punted. In fact, in their game against the Dolphins on Sunday, if Vick’s helmet hadn’t come off when he was facemasked, I doubt that would have been called.

  22. yamchargers says: Dec 13, 2011 8:26 AM

    Sure officials blow calls all the time. But you cant compare the 10 holding calls on the Oline that are missed every game to this type of blatant facemask call that changes the outcome of a game.

    Its like the the Hochuli call. I remember Shanahan spouting the same garbage as Schwartz. When an official decides the game on one call its a serious problem. And I dont even bet on sports!

  23. zappa69 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:34 AM

    Vikings fan here. The Vikings gave the game away way before the facemask. @Lionsfan, if the call was made the Vikings would have gotten one play from half the distance from the called penalty with no time on the clock from the 5.5 yard line. The facemask was pulled before the Lions possessed the ball so it would still be considered Vikings ball until the Lions recovered. If the ball went out of bounds it would be Vikes ball but with no time, game over Lions win. It’s hard to whine when you win. If the Vikes scored and won Schwartz would be complaining about all the bad calls against his team, thats the coaches job. Lions have some things to work on before they play a good team.

  24. damnsureis says: Dec 13, 2011 8:36 AM

    For being known as a “tough” coach he seems to whine a lot. I guess that’s to be expected from a man who got hurt in a hand shake.

  25. vikingbill1 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:37 AM

    Only a coach who won a game he knows he had NO business winning (especially when given 6 TO’s) talks about this and calls the penalty on his own team.

  26. damnsureis says: Dec 13, 2011 8:39 AM

    “It’s one of the reasons I don’t stand up here and talk about officiating. I generally just say, ‘It’s their job to officiate; it’s our job to play,’ because we know it’s a fast game; it’s a very difficult game to officiate.”

    And then let me end this conversation by listing plays that I think the officials were wrong about.

  27. grogansheroes says: Dec 13, 2011 8:39 AM

    If you want to see bad officiating, watch the Pats-Redskins game on NFL tonight. That is if the league doesn’t edit out all the terrible calls.

  28. jbl429 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:43 AM

    lionsfan54 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:41 AM
    It wouldn’t be a day on PFT without a post bashing the Lions. Well done, you’ve filled today’s quota.

    Why don’t you football experts clarify the rule… if the ball came out before the facemask, how is possession ruled?

    —–

    It doesn’t matter that the ball came out first. what matters is that Webb’s facemask being grabbed hindered his ability to recover the ball when he was the closest player to it.

  29. kwgator says: Dec 13, 2011 8:45 AM

    @hahahadannywatkins

    “Hit the Showers”

    Is this Jerry Sanduskey?

  30. deconjonesbitchslap says: Dec 13, 2011 8:46 AM

    so 2 wrongs make a right?

    if this guy did it, well, then it’s ok for us to do it.

    this sums up most problems in this entire country.

  31. rmc1995 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:47 AM

    I’m not exactly sure what people think Schwartz is whining about. He admits to the face mask call being missed and excuses the refs for missing other calls throughout the game because the game is difficult to officiate. There seems to be a lot of people whining that the Lions aren’t the NFL doormat that’s for sure.

  32. anthonioustheprettygood says: Dec 13, 2011 8:58 AM

    It was a missed call. It happens ALL the time. Yes, Viking should have gotten it. but guess what? they didn’t. MOVE ON. ESPN isn’t talking about it. NFL network isn’t talking about it. Yahoo sports? no. CBSSportsline? nope. They all mentioned it Sunday evening and that was pretty much it. But of course not PFT. Hey, lets see another article about Suh being dirty.

  33. kennyrogerschicken says: Dec 13, 2011 9:02 AM

    lks311 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:10 AM

    knucklehead93 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:46 AM
    Wow, Schwartz finally said something intelligent.
    _________________________________
    knucklehead, Schwartz has an economic degree from Georgetown…where’d you go to school?

    —————————————————–

    So an economic degree from Georgetown makes him smart? There’s a lot of morons running around with degrees, and I’m sure they’re all claiming intelligence due to having a framed piece of paper.

  34. camssportsjam says: Dec 13, 2011 9:06 AM

    Would you guys give the man a break? He’s by far the perfect coach but hes the best one the Lions have had in years. Hes totally right about missed calls on both ways, im tired of hearing how the Lions got away with one here. I seem to recall Minnesota getting some breaks against us over the year, especially two suspicious PI penalties when we played them in 08 that greatly impacted the game; our “perfect” season. So hush

  35. camssportsjam says: Dec 13, 2011 9:07 AM

    ***far from a perfect coach

  36. charmcity207 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:08 AM

    “It’s one of the reasons I don’t stand up here and talk about officiating.” … but it is one of the reasons that you throw a tamtrum on the sidelines every time a call goes against you. Grow up.

  37. cornernum23 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:08 AM

    Is it just me, or is there no whining going on here whatsoever? Looks like people left there reading glasses on the nightstand. Because they are reading things that aren’t even there. Oh yeah! Yet another Harbargh reference. Guess the day wouldn’t be complete without it…

  38. NFLJunkie says: Dec 13, 2011 9:08 AM

    If the Vikes scored and won Schwartz would be complaining about all the bad calls against his team, thats the coaches job.

    Most coaches — including Schwartz — usually don’t go out of their way to comment on officiating at all unless there was a particular play or controversial call/non-call they are asked a direct question about.

    As Schwartz was here. So he answered.

    If a facemask had been called and the Vikings scored on the untimed down, Schwartz would’ve been asked an entirely different question about how his team is undisciplined and keeps shooting themselves in the foot with crucial penalties.

    In which case he probably would’ve said his guy was just trying to make a play on the QB and it wasn’t malicious (seems accurate), and he couldn’t fault him for the effort. Because that is a coach’s job.

  39. b20sanders says: Dec 13, 2011 9:24 AM

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but since the facemask occured after the fumble, the ball would have been placed at the spot of the foul and yardage determined from there. since it was about the ten yard line, it would have been half the distance and placed at the 5 yard line. A little more difficult than 18 inches from the goalline. Either way, it was a missed call, not Schwartz’s fault.

  40. jessethegreat says: Dec 13, 2011 9:25 AM

    Didn’t hear this much uproar when the Cardinals did the same thing to the Packers a couple years ago. Officials are officials… they routinely miss a few calls each week.

    I have a quite a few real good friends that are friends of mine. Vikings fans take solace in knowing you exposed the Lions for the frauds they are. You can also take solace in knowing this extra loss the refs gave you might end up propelling your franchise closer to getting Andrew Luck… and allowing you to trade him for a bounty of picks that could very likely help you push the Lions back to the cellar in the division where they rightfully belong.

    That extra loss the refs pushed on the Packers 2 years ago against the Cardinals in the playoffs very likely pushed Aaron Rodgers into never allowing his team being in a position where the refs could take the game from us again.

  41. cmdv8 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:27 AM

    your team sucks and your coach is an idiot thats why you lost that game to a very beat up lions D w/back up wr playn db not from one missed face mask let it go and have fun at the top of the draft aka the detroit superbowl bc for years thats all we had to look forward too

  42. primetime0552 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:30 AM

    Sure officials blow calls all the time. But you cant compare the 10 holding calls on the Oline that are missed every game to this type of blatant facemask call that changes the outcome of a game.

    Its like the the Hochuli call. I remember Shanahan spouting the same garbage as Schwartz. When an official decides the game on one call its a serious problem. And I dont even bet on sports!

    ===============================

    How can you to say the “10 holding calls” missed every game don’t change the outcome of the game? Just because they aren’t on the last play of the game. A ten yard penalty is still a huge penalty and could kill the drive. Would if those holding calls that were missed were on drives the Lions/Vikings scored on and might not have scored on otherwise? Would if the holding penalties saved a quarterback getting sacked and fumbling the ball? Would if the holding penalties sprung a running back for a first down?

    Hopefully you see my point. There is no way that you could say if the “10 missed holding calls” had no out come on the game, because they very well could have changed the game. There is no guarentee the Vikings would have scored on the next play either. The Lions have had multiple 4 down stops from the 1 yard line this year already. There are missed/wrong calls throughout every single game. All the missed/wrong calls change the outcome of the game. Just because they don’t happen on the last play of the game doesn’t mean they don’t change the outcome…..

  43. darthvincent says: Dec 13, 2011 9:32 AM

    lks311 says: knucklehead, Schwartz has an economic degree from Georgetown…

    oooh what a comeback… I guess an economic degree means he’s not football smart. I would agree…

  44. ballinmore says: Dec 13, 2011 9:35 AM

    lks311 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 8:10 AM
    knucklehead93 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:46 AM
    Wow, Schwartz finally said something intelligent.
    _________________________________
    knucklehead, Schwartz has an economic degree from Georgetown…where’d you go to school?

    _________________________________

    They also allowed Allen Iverson to go there for 2 years.

  45. rkolenda says: Dec 13, 2011 9:35 AM

    Where in this article was Schwartz complaining? He answered a question.
    Again, the media is creating something out of nothing and everyone buys into this non-story.

  46. vikingsinla says: Dec 13, 2011 9:37 AM

    Schwartz has worse anger issues than Ndomastomp; he would be kicking puppies and choking out infants if this call went against him.

    However, its a missed call in a game between two irrelevant teams. Move on.

  47. dacapt704 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:38 AM

    Lets be real..I DONT CARE HOW MANY PPL DISLIKE THIS COMMENT…

    The only reason it was not called is bc it was Joe Webb…let that had been Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc..it would have been called in a mili sec..

    Say whatever you like but the treatment of all QBs is NOT the same and that makes the NFL a joke!

  48. cmutimmah says: Dec 13, 2011 9:39 AM

    LOL – I love that the Lions coach is so polarizing. Just makes me enjoy rooting for them more.

    PS – It’s a missed call. It’s over. There’s no guarantee that they would have scored if they were given a do over, or no guarantee that they wouldn’t have scored.. I thought the missed call was brutal (I told my wife not to be excited because there’s going to be a flag for a facemask as Avril was falling on the ball. I was delighted that the call was missed, but literally asked out loud how a ref could have missed it. Where was he looking?!?

    Either way, Minnesota should be happy with the loss and continued draft position improvement. If I was them, I would trade Jared Allen and Adrian Peterson for the moon also. They need a complete rebuild, and they won’t be good before both of these player’s careers are past their primes.

  49. lionhunter909 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:39 AM

    I doubt most of you remember back in ’08(yes the infamous 0-16 season) when a blatant bad call for pass interference on a Lions CB was thrown which allowed the Vikings to pull out the game in Minny in the final seconds. If the refs had gotten that right the Lions would have finished 1-15 instead of having the stigma of 0-16.

    So yeah, consider it karma, payback, or whatever.
    Lions fans are more aware of it than most–that bad teams rarely get the benefit of the doubt. Now the tables are turned. Too bad for Minny, but that’s how it goes when you have a 2-11 record.

  50. seals1 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:40 AM

    Does the league drug test coaches?

  51. collinge71 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:44 AM

    I love that ever think Schwartz it whining, when he is clearly not. He said they blew the call but blew other calls.

  52. thejuddstir says: Dec 13, 2011 9:44 AM

    Schwartz may have a degree but let’s keep in mind that colleges hand those out like Halloween candy to athletes. He would’ve been far better off if he would’ve evaded or answered the questions witout painting himself into a corner. He could’ve said, “yes, the refs missed the call but I do have confidence that our defense could’ve stopped them for one more play but I guess we’ll never know”……The statement he made most assuredly guarantees that for the rest of his coaching career he will never be able to complain about a call or missed call that were to cause his team to lose as the NFL would replay this quote,,,,,,,,, “Every single play in the NFL, there’s something the officials are going to miss – get right, get wrong,” Schwartz said. “It’s one of the reasons I don’t stand up here and talk about officiating.”……………So much for that college degree, dumb azz.

  53. detroitsgonagetya says: Dec 13, 2011 9:48 AM

    kennyrogerschicken says:
    Dec 13, 2011 9:02 AM
    lks311 says: Dec 13, 2011 8:10 AM

    knucklehead93 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 7:46 AM
    Wow, Schwartz finally said something intelligent.
    _________________________________
    knucklehead, Schwartz has an economic degree from Georgetown…where’d you go to school?

    —————————————————–

    So an economic degree from Georgetown makes him smart? There’s a lot of morons running around with degrees, and I’m sure they’re all claiming intelligence due to having a framed piece of paper.
    _________________________________
    So let me guess you a layed-off construction worker or something! Usually the people who spout off about degree’s being a “framed peice of paper ” don’t have one!

  54. motorcitykitties says: Dec 13, 2011 9:49 AM

    The Lions have been boned on so many calls I can’t even begin to list them all so point being… it goes both ways. I’m not going to apologize for this missed call for 1 second and neither is anyone in the Lions org.

  55. wrm1230 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:51 AM

    Some of you guys crack me up. What exactly is a “Lions hater”? I mean seriously, people actually have a reason to “hate” the Lions? For what? Decades of futility? A couple of seasons of mediocrity? A three-game winning streak?

    Here’s the reality…the current version of the Lions is average at best and extremely undisciplined. Play the “youth card” all you want but unfortunately, there happens to be a team just as young if not younger, significantly more talented across the board and without the discipline problems right in your own division. That team is headed to its second consecutive world championship and fifth in the Super Bowl era.

    Why would anyone have to “hate” the Lions? It’s like hating your mailman.

  56. freebird2011 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:55 AM

    I was at the game, 16th row lower bowl, about the 35 yard line on the Vikings side.

    During the Vikings final drive to tie the game, the Vikings got at least one break where Vikings OL were holding and there was no call. Webb was able to scramble out of the pocket. Without that “no call,” the Vikings likely wouldn’t have been in the position they were at the end of the game.

    I’m pretty sure it was this play:

    (1:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 14-J.Webb pass deep right to 85-G.Camarillo pushed ob at DET 39 for 17 yards (43-C.Harris).

  57. ejmat2 says: Dec 13, 2011 9:58 AM

    I agree there are always calls that are missed on both sides (other than a couple of “favorite” NFL teams) but let’s not try and dismiss the one call. The situation was game deciding. None of the previous calls were game deciding. The horse collar should have been called but he was out of bounds when it happened. Right to do? Nope but how much did it affect the play? None. They held Allen just about every play and that wasn’t called so the one or two holds Schwartz mentions is nothing but a wash. However, when the game is on the line and you have at least 3 of the refs staring directly at the QB holding the ball and the players helmet gets wrapped around his head how does that go by unseen? That’s a joke.

    I can agree with a portion of what Schwartz is saying. There’s a lot of calls that should be called and a lot that shouldn’t. Rodgers and Brady ring a bell? But not calling that face mask was ridiculous and every ref on that field should be held accountable for making a decision where the outcome of the game is decided. Especially when it was as blatant as it was.

  58. cmdv8 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:06 AM

    auhhhh poor tinyssota

  59. comeonnowguys says: Dec 13, 2011 10:08 AM

    Call goes against the Lions: “IT’S A LEAGUE CONSPIRACY!”

    Call benefits the Lions: “Bad calls go both ways.”

    You know what? They actually do go both ways. This isn’t the NBA.

    Sorry, Lions fans, your team is not getting picked on by the refs any more than any other team. Every… Single… Team. can point to calls that have cost them games.

    The league doesn’t benefit by keeping Detroit down. You’re just making yourselves look silly.

  60. comeonnowguys says: Dec 13, 2011 10:10 AM

    The one good thing about this is at least we won’t have to hear about that damned Calvin Johnson rule.

    Nevermind. Of course we’re going to hear about it 15 years from now.

  61. wrm1230 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:11 AM

    “Lions fans are more aware of it than most–that bad teams rarely get the benefit of the doubt. Now the tables are turned.”

    Wait…what? The implication here is that the Lions are a “good team”? Really? I thought Thanksgiving, among other weeks, took care of that.

    If this version of the Lions, rife with medicrity, is considered “good”…you Detroit fans really have suffered. I guess your measuring stick might just be a little shorter than most.

  62. rkolenda says: Dec 13, 2011 10:12 AM

    Let’s be clear here. Schwartz acknowledged the missed call. What else do you want from the guy? Get over it.

  63. golions1 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:12 AM

    First of all, Schwartz gave an honest answer to the question, not a typical coach’s doubletalk answer. Second, if you want to add up all the bad calls that have gone in the Lions favor versus all the bad calls that have gone against them since he has been coach, you will find the Lions are STILL owed a few. Third, Schwartz has not complained about bad calls in his press conferences. Fourth, the Lions don’t care what others think, they are going to play hard the entire game, and they will not quit. Schwartz is a good coach, and the Lions are improving. Haters will have to deal with it.

  64. comeonnowguys says: Dec 13, 2011 10:12 AM

    @freebird2011

    Really? You’re going for holding? Come on, man.

  65. green1bay says: Dec 13, 2011 10:19 AM

    Detroit who?

  66. ahs2 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:19 AM

    what is he whining about?!?!?! He explained that lots of cals get missed in games and cited a few examples without which he get called a whiner without having any proof. He didn’t even mention the 4th & inches that the refs decided was close enough to be a first and that Pettigrew was also facemasked…BOTH of these occurrences pointed out by teh commentators, Billick & Branaman (sp?).

    And “blatant” is ridiculous, it was an incidental facemask. Watch it in real time and look at what Joe Webb said (he “didn’t even feel it”). It happens nearly every game.

    Finally, you can’t pick and choose your bad calls to whine about because no one but apparently Tebow knows what ‘would’ have happened.

    The haters are so glad they have the Lions to once again kick around and it shows, grasping at every opportunity, big or small…

  67. wrm1230 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:24 AM

    “Fourth, the Lions don’t care what others think, they are going to play hard the entire game, and they will not quit. Schwartz is a good coach, and the Lions are improving. Haters will have to deal with it.”

    Easy there big fella. Nobody hates the Lions. Nobody has a reason to hate the Lions. They are but a necessary opponent on the schedule….a mediocre team with mediocre talent and a below-average head coach. It’s OK, they’ve been worse than that for the better part of the past three decades. And just in secret….Matthew Stafford isn’t a very good QB and quite frankly is one of the reasons the Lions will remain mediocre for quite a bit longer.

  68. jrmbadger says: Dec 13, 2011 10:28 AM

    I’m definitely a Schwartz hater. i think he’s a hothead who has no control over his team. But seriously I can’t find anything wrong with his comments. What’s he supposed to say?

    “It wasn’t a facemask” — he’d be insane to say that.

    “Yeah we got a cheap win”?

    Seriously.

    You know, he’s right too – some missed calls are more noticeable than others, but the refs miss calls all the time on each side.

    People need to lighten up on the refs. They have a very difficult job to do. The game moves very fast and they have to make quick and accurate decisions in the blink of an eye. They are not machines, they are human. Give ‘em a break. It’s not like the Vikings were going anywhere anyway.

  69. purpleguy says: Dec 13, 2011 10:28 AM

    The Vikes deserved to lose this game anyway, so I’m not too bent out of shape on the call. However, this game and post-game comments did confirm a few things: (1) the Lions aren’t that good; (2) Schwartz’s sideline and post-game behavior shows the lack of control his team plays with on the field; and (3) you don’t compare holding calls (which happen on both sides) with blatant game ending facemasks.

  70. purplepete24 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:29 AM

    First of all the Vikings should have gotten another play, what they would have done with that play we’ll never know. Most Viking fans will agree that they would have found away to blow it. Lions fans should be happy with this incident getting so much hype. It helps deflect that at home, a 2-11 team spotted you 3, yes 3 defensive touchdowns, 6 total tunovers and the game still went down to the wire. There is no way Calvin Johnson should have had 3 catches for 29 yards against a secondary that would have trouble starting for the Minnesota Gophers. This Lions team is one and done if they reach the playoffs. And it will not be pretty.

  71. gergie1957 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:32 AM

    That facemask was a missed call, but that didn’t lose them the game. The previous 5 turnovers did, and their inability to have at least a semblance of metal toughness in that game.

    Unfortunately it’s been a year of Dumb for my Vikings.

    And as for the Lions, if they struggle to beat the Vikings at home. If you make the playoffs you’re one and done.

  72. funktron2x says: Dec 13, 2011 10:35 AM

    *yawn* Another day, more Lions hate. Perpetuated by unprofessional writers and piled on by fans of other teams who don’t know a football from a pile of dung. Guess that means we won again this weekend. :-)

  73. ahs2 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:39 AM

    As for all the ridiculous, “more of the same dirty” garbage, are you really trying to say that in a micro second where the goal is to strip the ball and end the game, that Levy had the intent and ability to both strip the ball and facemask Webb? Appreciate the compliment, but Levy’s not that fast, no one is…WATCH THE PLAY IN REAL TIME!

  74. skittlesareyum says: Dec 13, 2011 10:40 AM

    Lionsfan54, it doesn’t matter when the ball came out. Just like when the defense intercepts the ball, but gets called for roughing the passer. The turnover gets wiped out and the penalty is enforced.

    Not quite. If a facemasking penalty was called the Vikings would keep the ball because no one had recovered the fumble, so the Vikings still had possession. The offense gets the ball back on an interception + roughing the passer because it’s all-but-impossible to rough the passer after an interception. I think last week (maybe even this same game?) there was a personal foul block on a QB after an interception, but the defense kept the interception.

    The offense does not lose possession on a fumble; it has to be recovered by the defense, which is why the QB can’t drop the ball and pick it up again for four new downs, and why a fumble that goes out of bounds stays with the last team to have possession.

    If the facemask occurred *after* the Lions recovered the Lions would keep the ball but be penalized 15 yards.

  75. mbd3126 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:52 AM

    First – Schwartz answered the question.
    Second – We all acknowledge the facemask penalty was missed at the end of the game and could have changed the result of the game if it had.
    Third – At least one facemask penalty against the Vikings was missed. Detroit RB had his facemask grabbed and his head turned. The refs did not see, so did not call. Even the commentators saw it and said it was missed. The penalty if called would have resulted in a 1st down and moved the Lions within FG range. Again, potentially changing the score of the game. (and a TD by the Vikings at the end wouldn’t have mattered)

    Funny how the commentators didn’t mention that facemask instance again after the refs missed the facemask on Webb.

    Calls are missed all the time. Calls are made that shouldn’t be made. The refs are extremely inconsistent when officiating ALL games for ALL teams. Calls that are made in one game are not made in another. This is because everyone has a different perception of how they will see and judge a play. The refs are human beings and they are not “all seeing or knowing”. A team should never attirbute a win or a loss to officiating. A team can take advantage when a call goes their way, and overcome the calls that do not. End of story. Move on!!

  76. ahs2 says: Dec 13, 2011 11:00 AM

    gergie1957 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 10:32 AM
    That facemask was a missed call, but that didn’t lose them the game. The previous 5 turnovers did, and their inability to have at least a semblance of metal toughness in that game.

    Unfortunately it’s been a year of Dumb for my Vikings.

    And as for the Lions, if they struggle to beat the Vikings at home. If you make the playoffs you’re one and done.
    _________________________________
    Agree with everything you said, especially the one and done if they make it in…they’re just not quite ready…getting there but not yet!

    – A Lions fan

  77. thejuddstir says: Dec 13, 2011 11:03 AM

    I don’t have a dog in this fight (Lions v. Vikings) but to read some of these posts, makes you wonder if the person knows the first thing about football or anything in life for that matter. I watched the replay, it was a blatant facemask, Vikes should’ve rec’d another play at half yard line, case closed!!!!! These idiots that want to insanely suggest that other missed calls affected the game are hilarious. Bottom line idiots is: “Two wrongs don’t make a right”…………. Every team in the league could complain about officiating on every damn play. Grow up and quit being “homers” who only want to show off their lack of intelligence.

  78. megatronownsyou says: Dec 13, 2011 11:03 AM

    Wow you guys really can’t stand the fact that were 8-5 and looking pretty good to make the playoffs. You’re so biased that you return to one play in an attempt to infer that we would not have won if it weren’t for a single no call.
    I have to agree 100% with funktron2x. The writing on this site in incredibly unprofessional and a lot of you hater “fans” know almost nothing about football.
    LIONS WIN AGAIN!

  79. minnyjoe says: Dec 13, 2011 11:05 AM

    metzgerf says:
    Dec 13, 2011 8:01 AM

    Let me pose this question to everyone who is blaming this game on the missed facemask call: Is that missed call the reason the Vikings O-line got obliterated at the snap and allowed a D-tackle to get a hand on Webb before he was even done dropping back?
    ————————————-

    The play was a shuffle pass underneath, the line is supposed to let the D in Webb was supposed to drop a little quicker. That does not take away that it clearly was a penalty that should have been called. Quit whining about the holding calls those go both ways. Plenty of times Jared Allen was being held and nothing.

  80. n0hopeleft says: Dec 13, 2011 11:13 AM

    The Schwartz is a terrible leader, period.

  81. khmer379 says: Dec 13, 2011 11:13 AM

    Lion fans can say what they want but at least the vikings never went 0-16 just keeping it real

  82. elvoid says: Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM

    For the most part, Schwartz is exactly correct – except for one thing: Holding.

    Bringing up missed holding calls is lame for one reason: holding occurs on just about EVERY play somewhere on the field. If the refs called every hold that happened, the game would take over 6 hours to play.

    Now a facemask – especially one as blatant as was missed here – is a different animal. They don’t happen all the time and they are usually pretty easy to spot. How these officials missed it is beyond me.

    But Schwartz is right – refs are human and do miss calls, even obvious ones, from time to time. Part of the game and sometimes you’re on the bad end of that missed call – get over it and move on.

  83. elvoid says: Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM

    To the juddster:

    After reading your post stating that the Vikes should have got the ball back at the half yard line, I think we all know who doesn’t know squat about football.

    Check a mirror if you’d like a clue.

  84. thejuddstir says: Dec 13, 2011 11:30 AM

    It was a penalty. Officials blew it. If called, the Vikings retain possession regardless of the fumble and who recoverd it. Ball is moved half the distance to the goal line. Game can’t end on a defensive penalty. Vikes get one more play. Nobody can predict what would’ve or wouldn’t have happened so what is there to argue about idiots??? (all these “experts” who don’t know the rules are unbelievable. How some of these idiots can try to claim that the Lions recovered the fumble thus the penalty made no difference are about as stupid as stupid is.)

  85. MossMoon2Packers says: Dec 13, 2011 11:34 AM

    @metzgerf who said “… but that missed call is not the reason the Vikings lost the game.”

    Who knows if that’s true? The Vikings might well have scored a TD on the next play, winning the game. But, we’ll never know because the refs didn’t call the obvious face-masking penalty.

  86. pigskinswag says: Dec 13, 2011 11:40 AM

    Jim Schwartz seemed a lot more intelligent with his mouth CLOSED. Reading his comments makes me want to give him a Harbaughian hand shake.

  87. golions1 says: Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM

    Just for the sake of argument, since the fumble occured before the facemask, would it be half the distance from the line of scrimmage, or 15 yards from where the ball was recovered, which was somewhere around the 50 yard line, or half the distance from the spot of the foul, which was about the ten yardline or so.

  88. bangpow says: Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM

    Much ado about nothing with the comments or the article.

    Schwartz doesn’t complain when the calls go against him or when they work out for him.

    Schwartz got blasted by some around the Detroit area last year when he didn’t tee off on the officiating during the “Calving Johnson” game against the Bears. He took the high road and said that it goes both ways throughout the course of the game.

    It’s the exact same thing he’s saying in this instance.

  89. primetime0552 says: Dec 13, 2011 12:18 PM

    Just for the sake of argument, since the fumble occured before the facemask, would it be half the distance from the line of scrimmage, or 15 yards from where the ball was recovered, which was somewhere around the 50 yard line, or half the distance from the spot of the foul, which was about the ten yardline or so.

    ============================

    Half the distance from the spot of the foul, which was between the 5-6. Vikings would have had one, non timed, play from the 2-3. I think if they had a false start or something that would cause a ten second run off on that play, the game would then be over. I’m not sure on that, but that doesn’t matter anyways, just typing as I’m thinking

  90. detroitsgonagetya says: Dec 13, 2011 12:19 PM

    I really think some of people commenting on this article, didn’t even bother to read it first! You jumped straight to bashing the Lions, and Schwartz.

  91. mediasloppy says: Dec 13, 2011 12:23 PM

    lol, Coach Schwartz spends 75% of the game yelling at the refs and now he officially just says, “Hey stuff happens during a live game.” That’s rich.

    And when is a play over? Ponder took a personal foul by a very late hit, yet the guy who landed it continued to play under Coach Schwartz Zero tolerance policy. I guess it wasn’t “officially” over though.

  92. mediasloppy says: Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM

    Seriously though. That was just a sick call. Look at the picture above. His head and body are clearly show a blatant facemask and there is NOBODY in the area to obstruct the view. It’s just crazy, but crazy happens every week.

  93. skolvikes says: Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM

    [i]Half the distance from the spot of the foul, which was between the 5-6. Vikings would have had one, non timed, play from the 2-3. [/i]

    I don’t believe that’s correct. I believe had the facemask been called, the play would have occurred from the previous spot, in this case the 1 yard line.

    Taken from the NFL.com rules. Rule 14 Penalty Enforcement (pay attention to the last sentence):

    DEFENSIVE FOUL BEHIND LINE
    (7) When the spot of a foul by the defense is behind the line of scrimmage and the ball becomes dead behind the line, enforcement is from the spot of the foul or the spot where the ball is dead, whichever is more advantageous to the offense. [b]If such foul incurs a penalty that results in the offended team being short of the line, the ball will be advanced to the previous spot and no additional yardage assessed.[/b]

  94. jimmylions says: Dec 13, 2011 1:16 PM

    MDS – this is just weak. It’s a non-story.

    You make it sound like this one particular missed call is the greatest sin in NFL history and was the only reason the Vikings lost.

    Remember when Lions started Daunte Culpepper at QB and he got facemasked (no call) preventing a game winning touchdown? It would have meant the Lions going 1-15 instead of 0-16.

    When that game was over, Lions fans were disappointed, but we got over it. I think Vikings fans feel the same way about this missed call on Webb.

    And I do agree with dacapt704, that had Brady been QB the flag would have been thrown – in basketball we always called that the Jordan rules.

    Because when it’s a slow day, MDS just looks for reasons to bash the Lions! Weak! Lame!

  95. cliffcla says: Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM

    As a Vikings fan I have to say the call sucked. But it sure was a fun game to watch. There is less drama in a daytime Soap opera.

  96. minnyjoe says: Dec 13, 2011 2:06 PM

    There is a difference between playing hard and playing dirty and it is clear the Lions and their coach do not know the difference.

  97. 13curtjp says: Dec 13, 2011 3:09 PM

    What the lions should really be concerned about is the fact they almost lost to the 2-11 vikings. What happens when they play a good team?

  98. Chris says: Dec 13, 2011 3:33 PM

    “Of course, there are missed calls against both teams in every game. But a missed call on a blatant facemask on the last play of the game, when the result of the game might have been different if the call had been made, is bigger than most missed calls.”

    I really disagree with this statement from Michael David Smith, while yes a missed play on the last play of the game may seem “bigger” because its the last we remember, but not always the most impactful.

    One could easily argue that a missed penalty on a 3rd and long drive that would end up in a first down, could totally change the momentum of the game and never put either team in the position for that last penalty to even take place.

    What is important to take away from this is refereeing the NFL has not been good this year, and its not necessarily entirely the officials fault. The NFL needs to set better guidelines and make rules black and white (ie: what is a catch)

  99. 13xworldchamps says: Dec 13, 2011 4:18 PM

    The amazing thing here is the vikings gave up 5 turnovers, two defensive touchdowns and played the second half with their third string QB no Adrian Peterson and still had the Lions sweating at the end of the game.

    It will be the Packers pleasure at Lambeau field in 3 weeks to put the Lions out of their misery.

    Restore the roar……..yeah right

  100. bischof21 says: Dec 13, 2011 4:27 PM

    13curtjp,

    Do you follow the Lions at all? Do you know how many defensive players they has out for that game? Let me guess you saw the final score and made a determination based on that about this Lions team. Good for you.

    Oh and while we are whining about face masks. Pettigrew had his grabbed and twisted earlier in the game. Had that been called the Lions would have had the ball at around the Vikings 20 or so. But I’m sure that doesn’t matter. Those dirty Lions just get so much help.

  101. axespray says: Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM

    dacapt704 says:Dec 13, 2011 9:38 AM
    “The only reason it was not called is bc it was Joe Webb…let that had been Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc..it would have been called in a mili sec..”

    Wasn’t Rodgers facemasked during his “fumble” in that playoff game and the refs didn’t call it?

  102. boss30 says: Dec 13, 2011 7:25 PM

    If you are going to talk about this missed call indicating that it could have changed the outcome of the game, then it will be only fair to mention that the 49ers were given free 5 yards during their last drive by incorrect ball placement and they beat the lions after they scored on 4th down and 6 yards by only few inches. This misplacement could have changed the outcome of the game, the lions recod, the 49ers record as well, like Schwartz said, missed calls happen all the time, let it go.

  103. purplebleeder says: Dec 13, 2011 8:13 PM

    As a Vikings fan I’m glad we lost. 1 game closer to high pick. Besides like the Lions can’t beat the Packer’s anyway. If they make the playoffs they’ll be 1 and done. They have really set out to be the dirty team. Our spirits are broken in MN so congrats Detroit you beat one of the worst teams in the NFL.

  104. skolvikes says: Dec 13, 2011 9:41 PM

    Do you follow the Lions at all? Do you know how many defensive players they has out for that game? Let me guess you saw the final score and made a determination based on that about this Lions team. Good for you.
    ————————————————————-

    Great point! I hear the Vikings were completely healthy.

    Wait…. what?

  105. teajaye17 says: Dec 13, 2011 10:20 PM

    what is the rule when the facemask is after the fumble?

  106. snixxx says: Dec 14, 2011 9:16 AM

    It’s funny that all of you Viking fans are complaining about the Schwartz whining, when that’s exactly whyou at you’re doing on this post. When did you Viking fans learn how use a computer anyway???

  107. truthserum4u says: Dec 14, 2011 9:27 AM

    zappa69 says:Dec 13, 2011 8:34 AM

    @Lionsfan, if the call was made the Vikings would have gotten one play from half the distance from the called penalty with no time on the clock from the 5.5 yard line. The facemask was pulled before the Lions possessed the ball so it would still be considered Vikings ball until the Lions recovered. If the ball went out of bounds it would be Vikes ball but with no time, game over Lions win.

    AND

    b20sanders says:Dec 13, 2011 9:24 AM

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but since the facemask occured after the fumble, the ball would have been placed at the spot of the foul and yardage determined from there. since it was about the ten yard line, it would have been half the distance and placed at the 5 yard line. A little more difficult than 18 inches from the goalline.

    ——————————————————–

    The following is from a chat with Mike Pereira, the former VP of Officiating.

    Comment From Ed
    Lions/Vikings. You mentioned on Sunday that the proper call on the facemask was a spot foul and should have been half the distance to the goal-to the five yard line. Is this because the ball was loose? If the ball had been fumbled after the facemask, would it have been placed at the 1/2 yard line?

    [Mike:]
    I went back and looked at the play again and the facemask occurred after the fumble. That means the the penalty would have been enforced from the one yard line. It was a foul during a fumble.

  108. truthserum4u says: Dec 14, 2011 9:31 AM

    Let me make sure I’ve got this straight. The fanbase who, a year later, is still complaining about the subjective Calvin Johnson catch, is complaining about another fanbase complaining two days after an indisputable facemask.

  109. truthserum4u says: Dec 14, 2011 9:38 AM

    @ jessethegreat

    You Packer fans just never give up. The Arizona defender didn’t twist, turn, yank or jerk Rodgers’ facemask. Thus it was NOT a penalty! The league explained it as such; actually pointing out the wording in the rule book.

    The call they missed in that game was the helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers.

  110. truthserum4u says: Dec 14, 2011 10:09 AM

    axespray says:Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM

    dacapt704 says:Dec 13, 2011 9:38 AM
    “The only reason it was not called is bc it was Joe Webb…let that had been Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc..it would have been called in a mili sec..”

    Wasn’t Rodgers facemasked during his “fumble” in that playoff game and the refs didn’t call it?

    ————————————–

    No. See previous post.

  111. rlouisbarrett says: Dec 14, 2011 10:11 AM

    Jim Schwartz sure is a bad coach that can’t discipline his players! I mean, it must take a terrible coach to bring an o-16 to a playoff contender with two years in between!

    ^ Sarcasm.

    Bash the Schwartz and Suh all you want, they’re probably better than their counterparts on your team, jealous morons.

  112. yatista says: Dec 14, 2011 7:59 PM

    Are the Liohs an elite team? No. Are they a “good” team? Yep. The games they lost were to teams that have a combined record of 48-17, which could have been 50-15 if Chicago had not lost their QB & RB. And they are 8-5, ranked at 10 or near in most power rankings which I have seen. So I would suggest that teams ranked in the top 1/3 are good, next 1/3 average, bottom 1/3 poor. Make sense, sports fans?

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