Robert Kraft thinks Bill Belichick is the best coach in NFL history

AP

Who’s the greatest coach in NFL history? Any answer would have to consider the likes of Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, George Halas, Don Shula, Bill Walsh and Chuck Noll. But Patriots owner Robert Kraft says his coach has them all beat.

Kraft said today that he believes Patriots coach Bill Belichick will be remembered as the best coach the league has ever seen.

“I think he’ll go down as the greatest coach in the history of the NFL, because he’s really competing in the era of the salary cap,” Kraft said, via Mike Reiss of ESPN.com. “When I bought the team, it was the beginning of the salary cap, and I think a lot of great coaches had difficulty understanding how to balance the economics of the game and the budgets. His product knowledge is so great.”

Kraft raises an interesting point about the turnover of NFL rosters these days: Belichick is going for his fourth Super Bowl ring, which would tie him with Noll for the most ever, but Noll did it with the Steelers at a time when franchises could keep the nucleus of a great team together for a decade. The Patriots have only three players on this year’s roster — Tom Brady, Kevin Faulk and Matt Light — who were with the Patriots when they won the first Super Bowl under Belichick.

In fact, what Belichick has done in building the Patriots dynasty at a time when there really aren’t dynasties in the NFL is so different than what any of those great coaches of the past did that it’s hard to even compare them. But Kraft has a good point when he suggests that Belichick’s achievement surpasses them all, because it comes at a time when it’s harder to build a dynasty than it ever has been before.

“I think we’re privileged to have him as a head coach,” Kraft said. “I think he has done an outstanding job.”

And if he earns another Super Bowl ring this year, he may have done the most outstanding job that any coach has ever done.

226 responses to “Robert Kraft thinks Bill Belichick is the best coach in NFL history

  1. Looks like even the owner of the Patriots believes that the NFL only began operations in 1970. He’s every bit as delusional as the rest of the Patriots’ fan base.

  2. By which he is also saying that he is the most clever owner in NFL history for reconizing that and signing him.

    None the less, an objective observer would have to say that B.B. is definitely in the running.

  3. I would agree that Belichick is an excellent coach. You’d be a fool to think otherwise. But keep in mind that the previously mentioned Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, George Halas, Don Shula, Bill Walsh and Chuck Noll never lost draft picks because they got caught cheating. And since said cheating incident Belichick hasn’t won anything.

  4. just to add to it – look at how many different types of winning teams he has built. From the great defenses that were the backbone of the early 2000s to the spread offense that broke records and went 18-1, and now what he’s done with the 2-TE set. Belichick continues to set the trend of how to win in the NFL.

  5. Not a Pats fan, but just looking at his record and what he brings to the franchise, I’d have to say Kraft is right. Helps to have Tom Brady on the roster, but then again….That would coaching a team like the Colts would ensure….

    (wait, what’s that? Fired? Really?)

    um…. yeah what was I saying?

  6. Certainly could argue that but i think two things keep BB from the greatest ever:

    1. spygate
    2. failed badly in cleveland

  7. As a rabid pats fan, I definitely think Belichick is in the top 10 of coaches of all-time, but have a hard time putting him at #1 over the likes of Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown. Of course, it’s difficult to compare the old-timers to the current coaches. He’s certainly one of the best in the modern era. It would be nice to win another Super Bowl post video taping scandal to prove all the naysayers wrong.

  8. He better think that… I personally think Joe Gibbs, late 80’s early 90’s. I mean, he did do it with 3 different quarterbacks. Coach Belichick has done it with the same quarterback (and kicker).

  9. this never happens if the Tuck Rule is never called,

    neither does Tom Brady’s career

    ya’ll robbed Al ,

    ya’ll hated him bc he sued the league back in the day and WON

    its all good though…

    not really

    but whatever.

  10. Kevin Faulk rules. I know he has barely played in 2 years, but to go this long at that position and for one team is impressive. Especially when you arnt refferred to as a super star. He has been a key role in those rings.

  11. On a side note, I definetly think Mr. Craft and Coach B are the best Owner-Coach combo in NFL History.

  12. I was a lil baby when all the coaches you mentioned were coaching… some before the time i was born…

    of all the coaches I have seen in my lifetime… BB is the best by far…

  13. Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different QBs (none of them in the HOF) and never got caught cheating. Now THAT is a great coach.
    – Bart Hubbuch

  14. If Bill wins #4 this yr he is the best coach of all time, he is already in the pantheon with Lombardi, Brown, and Walsh, but with #4 he will stand alone… He is such an innovator and with another title this yr he will be the only guy to have won super bowls in 2 distinct eras (both pre and post Goodell Football League)

  15. I don’t want to belittle anything belichick has accomplished. I will be very interested to see what\how he does when brady retires. I think that is when we can fully judge him. If he leaves with Brady or before we will never know. Very few coaches get to coach their entire career with one of the best qb’s of all time in the most pass happy times of the NFL. He did not do well without brady.

  16. He’s great, but best ever? No way. I know the video taping has been mentioned, but how great was he without Tom Brady?

  17. I have to agree too. Much harder now than in any of those great coaches era’s; besides cap complications, the talent is more evenly distributed now and scouting and preparation is light years ahead of where it was then as well.
    The only argument I could even see for Brown or Walsh over Belichick is how much more influence over the game they had and how much their ideas spread through their ideas and successors where much of Belichick’s genius has been in his adaptability.

  18. Belichick is a great coach, and will go down as a top 5 or top 10 all time coach, but there are so many other great coaches. For example, Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different crappy quarterbacks. And then take a look at the contributions a guy like Paul Brown made to the game. And there are so many others.

    Belichick is great, no doubt, but THE greatest? I don’t know about that.

  19. Also about the cheating scandal, I grew up in the South and we have a saying that applies to the South’s two greatest loves, football and racing; I you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.

  20. I’m pretty sure it’s irrelevant what era they coached in the steelers weren’t the only team allowed to keep their “core nucleus” for a decade every team had the option

    how many NFL dynasty teams are there really 5?

    it’s pretty hard to pick a number 1 you could argue for a lot of coaches

  21. On a more serious note, a mark of a good leader and a successful coach is who he brings behind him. In this regard he’s a complete failure. Not one of his assistants have been a success elsewhere.
    Contrast this to his mentor, Parcells. Many of his assistants have gone on to success. Consider Bill Walsh and his impact on how the game is played. His coaching tree and the number of assistants that won superbowl is huge.
    It’s called coaching tree and Belichick ain’t got one.

    I expect Kraft to be biased. On an owner-coach combo, it’d be hard to beat deBartolo Walsh combo

  22. bobhk says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:04 PM
    Hahahahaha….
    Noll and others also did not have FA to restock rosters…
    Of course, others did not cheat either.
    =================================
    Ridiculous – The 49ers and Broncos were caught cheating on the salary cap and penalized for it. That’s real cheating. The NFL clarified the videotaping rules after the Pats had already won their three Super Bowls and it’s doubtful how much that information really helped.

  23. Belichick wouldn’t be as great a coach if it werent for his cheating with video taping. Funny how all sports analysts wanna completely forget about that or not mention it at all since hes a patriots coach & he has golden boy Brady on his side.

    He’s a good coach, but he wouldn’t be even close to that good of a record of what he has if it werent for that, & the Patriots dynasty got started on the BS tuck rule

  24. Super Bowl titles since 2002:

    Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, Colts, Jets, and every other AFC team: 3

    Patriots: 3

  25. Not impressed with Jimmy Jonson (circa 1996-1999), Dave Wannestedt, Jim Bates, Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, and Tony Sparano?

  26. When the Patriots win the Super Bowl in two weeks in Indy I look forward to the next set of excuses/insults the haters hurl toward anything New England Patriots !

    Looking forward to seeing BB holding up the Lombardi in Indy .

  27. Oh and I hope none of the Spygate obsessives are Cowboys fans, because that would mean those titles Jimmy Johnson won for you in the ’90s don’t count either after he admitted doing the same thing Belichick did.

  28. Few things on “the great” Belicheck:

    1) The Pats have not won anything since they were busted spying on other teams practices.

    2) Belicheck was at best, a mediocre head coach, and the Pats were well on their way to another lost season in 2001 until Mr. Bundchen arrived on the scene and took over as quarterback.

    3) His defense has been garbage over the past few years (his specialty is on defense, as he was a very skilled defensive coordinator) and his drafts have been mediocre as well.

  29. If you don’t count the cheating he still wouldn’t be the best coach in the NFL. Many more men of integrity have coached teams to championships.
    Besides what has he won lately.
    Kraft is a pompous ass

  30. To all of you saying its because of Brady…he went 11 – 5 with Cassel…He also went 18 – 1 the year after spygate. So stop crying about cheating

  31. ima browns fan
    so umm lets see BB had an old Bernie Kosar and post TB Bucs Vinny Testaverde in his early-mid Prime but no WRs RB’s and good O-Line and Decent Defense
    fyi @Picksix401: HE WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS WITH THE BROWNS 1-2x
    GET YA FACTS STR8 IF HE HAD STAYED WITH THE BROWNS AND BUILT DEM HIS WAY before MODELL PLAYED HIM THE BROWNS WOULD HAVE at LEAST 1-2 SUPER BOWLS
    AND YA KNOW THIS!!!!

  32. By Jets fans’ standards (playing in the AFC Championship game = winning the Super Bowl) Belichick has already won 6 Super Bowls!

    Kiss THOSE rings!!!

  33. avianflew says: Jan 20, 2012 3:22 PM

    They haven’t been doing so well since their cheating got curtailed.

    ^^^^^^

    Right, they only have the best record in the NFL, lost a Superbowl and are on the doorstep of playing in another. What planet have you been living on?

  34. Yes, a good coach, but Lombardi won 5 championships, 3 before the NFL-AFL merger and the first 2 Super Bowls.

    That would be 5 in 8 years. Taking over a team that went 1-10-1 in 1959, and playing in the NFL championship game the following year.

    Sorry Bob, but Bill has to settle for 2nd best.

  35. I love the haters. BB is given kudos for being the great coach he is and is torn down because of Spygate AND Brady is the reason the Pats win (11-5 with Cassell…ahem ahem)!! These are the same haters that say Brady is a sissy and isn’t one of the best QB’s to play the game…..which is it? You all need to take a second and realize how stupid you sound.

  36. its not bout his drafts picks its bout these guy being real football players guys who will do anything to win and play any postions
    eg: a wr playing defensive back or running back being a safety when there’s an injury

  37. “Who’s the greatest coach in NFL history? Any answer would have to consider the likes of Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, George Halas, Don Shula, Bill Walsh and Chuck Nole.”

    If your gonna make a list of all time great coaches please include Tom Landry…Not saying he was the best but surely hes on the all time greats list.

    And yes I am calling you Shirley.

  38. Does anyone on here even understand what Spygate was? I always see people reference he taped other teams practices. THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!! Go ask John Tomase how that worked out for him.

    They did tape other teams defensive hand signals during the game. You know, the ones out in the open for everyone to see. If youre going to come with ridiculous hate and stupidity at least try to get some facts straight.

    NO PRACTICES WERE EVER TAPED!!!!

  39. ampats says: Jan 20, 2012 3:19 PM

    Looking forward to seeing BB holding up the Lombardi in Indy .

    ————–

    Not going to happen, armpits.

  40. davebrownspiral says: Jan 20, 2012 3:20 PM

    Few things on “the great” Belicheck:

    1) The Pats have not won anything since they were busted spying on other teams practices.

    2) Belicheck was at best, a mediocre head coach, and the Pats were well on their way to another lost season in 2001 until Mr. Bundchen arrived on the scene and took over as quarterback.

    3) His defense has been garbage over the past few years (his specialty is on defense, as he was a very skilled defensive coordinator) and his drafts have been mediocre as well.

    —————————-

    Check there record since “spygate” and guess what a lot of teams havent won a Super Bowl since 2007.

  41. dohpey28 says: Jan 20, 2012 2:53 PM

    It is amazing to me how much spygate has gotten swept under the rug by the NFL. Great coach? Yes. Embittered, angry and resentful because my team can’t beat him? Hell yes.

    ———————————————–

    fixed it.

  42. Let’s have fun with best ever lists:

    1 Bill Belichick
    2 Barry Bonds
    3 Tiger Woods
    4 Lance Armstrong
    5 Richard Nixon

    The question is best ever whats?

    I have to say winning a SB after spygate won’t erase what he did wrong. With an alltime great QB, alot of coaches can win.

  43. avianflew says: Jan 20, 2012 3:22 PM

    They haven’t been doing so well since their cheating got curtailed.

    Really you moron?

    16-0, 10-6, 14-2, and 13-3.

    What the hell is wrong with you?

  44. Bill Walsh:
    NEVER lost a Super Bowl
    Coaching tree has won super bowls (Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, Billick)
    Implemented offense that is still used today

    Bill Belichick:
    Lost Super Bowl
    Got caught cheating
    Coaching tree not even close to being successful (McDaniel, Groh, Mangini)

    C’mon man.

  45. Look at the stats geniuses….the Pats have a better overall record AFTER the whole taping thing. The teams they played in the Superbowl and largely in the playoffs were teams they hadn’t played before in the season…..meaning…..they didn’t have any tape for what those defenses were signaling (not that you can use that information in games anyway…not any more than those coaches with binoculars who can decipher the EXACT SAAAAAAME INFORMATION). Steelers fans – Cowher has said in interviews he did the same thing, as did Jimmy Johnson. ESPN blew this story WAAAAYYYYY out of proportion and Goodell had to act with a heavy hand because of that.

    You all need to let go of the hate…….it’s needless. The Patriots are good, Bill is a good coach.

    Go get a girlfriend!

  46. Vince and god may have something to say about that… You do know that God is a Packers fan…. Right?

  47. Before you haters get all holier than though:

    George Halas was NOTORIOUS for spying, specifically opponents practices.

    Once those great Steelers of the 70s retired, Chuck Noll did nothing! He couldn’t transition with a new group of players.

    Vince Lombardi failed with the Redskins.

    Don Shula? See Chuck Noll.

    Paul Brown failed in Cincinnati.

    Personally, Vince Lombardi is the greatest COACH of all time. However, combining everything that goes on in today’s game (salary cap, roster turnover, Xs and Os), Belichick has been the best. Best ever? Not yet. Put another SB or 2 in the trophy case, it’d be hard to argue against it.

  48. It’s hilarious how everyone says “you can’t give him this because of that” or “he cheated so his SB’s are tainted” – just shows how people absolutely cannot handle others’ success. But guess what…..he still has the trophies, the wins, the rings and the same job – I’m sure he also makes a helluva lot more than you or me. Justify your criticism however you want, but his success cannot and will not be denied.

    I believe he’s one of the best ever not just because of Kraft’s view, but because he keeps his players hungry for more year in and year out. That’s extremely hard to do when you’ve already been-there done-that and alot of coaches have fizzled after just one successful season.

    Sorry, Browns fans, but sometimes to succeed, you have to fail.

  49. I love Bill Belichick. I love him for the wins, of course, but also for maintaining the Pats as a successful organization and team that has a chance in every game. I also love him for his brilliance and his ability to innovate on the fly and to put players into new roles when other teams are visibly giving up on the season due to the “injury bug.” And finally, I love him for Spygate, for always giving the hypocrites something to whine about every time they lose despite the fact that it had no bearing on the games being played and obviously had no effect on the Patriots’ winning percentage. All I know is that whenever I see comments about “Belicheat” I start grinning, because the Patriots must be winning yet again. Hell, Rex Ryan had coaches kneecapping opposing players along the sideline, but who cares because lol Jets.

  50. Mr. Kraft has the right to his opinion, but he’s wrong. I think Bill Walsh is probably the best coach in the history of the NFL, but you can make the case for a lot of them, but I’m not sure that Belicheat is one of them. Dude is tainted.

  51. 1. Can someone honestly tell me how spygate helped him win games? Seriously, someone please respond to me and we can discuss it. Back before defensive players had a radio helmet, like the QB, to get their calls, you were allowed to tape the signals. Belichick got into trouble due to where the camera man was, not because of the taping. TAPING WAS LEGAL.

    2. Why are some of you people saying he taped other teams practices? THAT NEVER HAPPENED. The one and only single report that speculated he had done that, was proven false and retracted the next day. The paper that printed it even had a full page “i’m sorry” deal going on.

    3. Why are some of you discounting his coaching due to him having Brady? Didn’t he draft and coach him? I would think having a great QB is a sign of being a good coach and putting together a great team. Alot of the all time best coaches had great QBs, Lombardi-Starr, Noll-Bradshaw, Walsh-montana, ect.

    Seriously, I want someone to smartly respond to me, try to change my mind, not just some lame one liner.

  52. Being in the salary cap era makes it easier.

    In the old days, before free agency, teams had to use their draft picks wisely to be successful. Now, if you whiff on your draft picks you can just buy talent.

    And, with this additional method of player acquisition, smart teams now have two ways to exercise their decision making superiority and enhance/prolong their success.

    Drafting well and mixing in some key FA signings appears to be the formula to follow, as Belichick has done in the past, perhaps most notably with the 2007 Patriots.

    Solid core of draftees, headlined by Brady, Mankins, Seymour, Wilfork, Bruschi, and Samuel, complimented superbly by the likes of Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel and, oh yeah, some fella by the name of Randy Moss.

  53. ncm42 says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:07 PM
    He’s great, but best ever? No way. I know the video taping has been mentioned, but how great was he without Tom Brady?
    ——————————–
    He went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.

  54. mjdkid100 says: Jan 20, 2012 3:29 PM

    Does anyone on here even understand what Spygate was? I always see people reference he taped other teams practices. THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!! Go ask John Tomase how that worked out for him.

    They did tape other teams defensive hand signals during the game. You know, the ones out in the open for everyone to see. If youre going to come with ridiculous hate and stupidity at least try to get some facts straight.

    NO PRACTICES WERE EVER TAPED!!!!

    ————

    You can thumb down my post all you want. Doesnt change the FACT that practices were never taped. There was a rumor about the walk-through but that was proven to have never happened directly from the source.

  55. I never seen so many bozos comment here as they did today.

    If coach Belichick coached your sorryassteam you would be electing him governor.
    Eat you heart out losers – we got the very best.

  56. .

    Anyone have any evidence that he’s cheated this year ? Good, because all past events are in the books and can’t be reviewed, revised or altered. Since we’re in 2011-2012 season that’s all that matters.

    If you don’t like the Patriots, fine. Praise the Ravens. They’re a good team. However, this endless stream of “I’m a victim of spygate “, or “I’m a victim of the tuck rule ” is nothing more than a pair of clown shoes. I mean seriously, is that all you got ? stuff from 2001 and 2007 LOL.

    .

  57. Joe Gibbs is way better than Bill, he didn’t cheat, he didn’t have Tom Brady. He won 3 out of 4 superbowls with different not great QB’s. The whole salary cap idea is stupid in all sports. People should get paid what they are worth not have a limit what the get paid.

  58. chrisjohnston10 says: Jan 20, 2012 3:41 PM

    ncm42 says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:07 PM
    He’s great, but best ever? No way. I know the video taping has been mentioned, but how great was he without Tom Brady?
    ——————————–
    He went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.

    And took the Browns to the Playoffs! The Browns..?!

  59. Gimme a break with CLE, BB actually did a decent job, taking them to the playoffs in ’94 (11-5). 1995 was bad and he got canned, but I don’t know how much was his coaching. From his time in Cleveland…Schwartz, Saban and Newsome all fell under his tree. Newsome stayed on with their move to BLT and has built a perennial contender for the past 12 years and is recognized as a top GM in the game. Schwartz has turned around a horrid DET team and Saban is probably the best coach in the college ranks. Parcells never won jack without BB at his side and for the past 11 years, no coach is comparable. Whatever on spygate, the only people that hang their hats on that, really have nothing to say in the first place. Do we really think that if what he did was so egregious he would escaped with just a fine and lost draft pick? Many teams have been penalized similarly for cap manipulation, player tampering, illegal practices, etc. Get a new crutch felleas.

  60. Belichick never won a super bowl without Brady. Walsh won super bowls with 2 different QBs, and Gibbs won super bowls with 3 different QBs. That is a much better measure of who was the superior coach.

  61. Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game…All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

    There’s your cheating. You bunch of idiots…

  62. To all the people “just sayin'” about Tom Brady: good players make good football teams that win. Shocker, I know. Noll had Bradshaw, Lombardi had Starr, Landry had Staubach….great coaches are not made on their own.

  63. And for you Cowgirls fans…

    After footage from the actual tape was aired on Fox NFL Sunday on September 16, former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson claimed, “This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn’t think it helped us.” Johnson also said, “Bill Belichick was wrong because he videotaped signals after a memo was sent out to all of the teams saying not to do it. But what irritates me is hearing some reactions from players and coaches. These players don’t know what their coaches are doing. And some of the coaches have selective amnesia because I know for a fact there were various teams doing this. That’s why the memo was sent to everybody. That doesn’t make [Belichick] right, but a lot of teams are doing this.”[24]

  64. dtm1088 says: Jan 20, 2012 2:55 PM

    I would agree that Belichick is an excellent coach. You’d be a fool to think otherwise. But keep in mind that the previously mentioned Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, George Halas, Don Shula, Bill Walsh and Chuck Noll never lost draft picks because they got caught cheating. And since said cheating incident Belichick hasn’t won anything.

    ——————————————-

    actually Belichicks winning % is ~100 points higher since being “caught” taping 23 seconds of play in front of 70,000 people.

    also, Lombardi, Brown and Halas used to bug the opposing teams locker rooms. Walsh was caught cheating the salary cap TWICE in san fran, shula admitted to taping in the early years and chuck noll had a team full of ped cheaters.

  65. Joe Gibbs is the best bar none. Won 3 Super Bowls in 12 years with 3 different quarterbacks none of which are close to Hall of Famers.

    In his second stint, he took a below average team to playoffs twice in four years. The proof of that brilliance can be measured by what occurred before he got there and after he left.

    The NFL has a lot less talent today than 20 years ago.

  66. For you Steeler fans…

    Steelers chairman Dan Rooney rebuffed Specter, stating that “We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue. In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games.”[31]

  67. If he is the greatest coach ever, then Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player ever, Marion Jones is the greatest female athlete, Ben Johnson is the greatest sprinter….

  68. Sorry to say Steeler fans; Chuck Noll’s teams of the 1970s were the ULTIMATE cheaters…

    Can you say steroids?

    And just because they weren’t illegal doesn’t mean it doesn’t count as cheating

    The NFL banned stick ’em. Are you willing to argue that steroids aren’t as bad as stick ’em?!?

    While stupid, Steeler fans aren’t so stupid to argue this.

  69. They haven’t been doing so well since their cheating got curtailed.

    So I guess compiling a record of around 63-12 or something like that is ‘not doing well’?

    F’n morons….

  70. LMAO! Greatest coach? Really he can’t even cheat right lol! If he’s such a “great” coach what has this bust won since he got caught cheating, NOTHING!!!!!!

  71. 3. Why are some of you discounting his coaching due to him having Brady? Didn’t he draft and coach him? I would think having a great QB is a sign of being a good coach and putting together a great team. Alot of the all time best coaches had great QBs, Lombardi-Starr, Noll-Bradshaw, Walsh-montana, ect.
    ______________

    Really? A 6th round draft pick? He passed on him 5 times himself. And I have never known BB’s expertise to be a QB coach or to develop QBs. Charlie Weis probably deserves that credit. I define landing Brady as very fortunate. Hey, ultimately he gets credit for that, but that late in the draft even you with your red,white and blue glasses has to see that as being fortunate that someone else did not draft him earlier. Definitely more luck than skill that late in the draft.

    And yes, I believe some of the coaches you mentioned are definitely helped out by having excellent QBs. Not sure I throw Noll in that list. That whole team was amazing. Feel same about Griese with Shula. Morrall started half the season during their perfect season. Maybe a guy like Gibbs who won with 3 different QBs.

    While I don’t know the specifics as well as you, I ask this: if the infraction for taping was so insignificant…if it was not fopr taping things he shouldn’t have…why oh why, such a huge penalty? Don’t forget the $500,000 fine to Belichick in addition to the loss of the 1st round draft pick.

  72. mjdkid100 says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:59 PM
    Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game…All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

    There’s your cheating. You bunch of idiots…

    ——
    right so you can video tape, it just can’t be from the sideline. unless you wear a green vest like the jets guy did earlier this season. that rule was revised in 2007 and sent out in the memo. it was not there prior.

  73. Really, which 2 exactly did Walsh win Super Bowls with? Not questioning Walsh as a great coach, but Young took over as QB 3 years after Walsh retired and won a SB 3 years after that. Also not questioning Gibbs, but what exactly did he do with Ramsey, Brunell and Campbell from ’04-’07? Your arguement is meritless.

    jbcommonsense says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:58 PM
    Belichick never won a super bowl without Brady. Walsh won super bowls with 2 different QBs, and Gibbs won super bowls with 3 different QBs. That is a much better measure of who was the superior coach.

  74. All I know is that Vince Lombardi would eat Belechick’s Kraft Mac & Cheese Lunch anyday… then or today.

  75. pastabelly says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:14 PM
    bobhk says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:04 PM
    Hahahahaha….
    Noll and others also did not have FA to restock rosters…
    Of course, others did not cheat either.
    =================================
    Ridiculous – The 49ers and Broncos were caught cheating on the salary cap and penalized for it. That’s real cheating. The NFL clarified the videotaping rules after the Pats had already won their three Super Bowls and it’s doubtful how much that information really helped.
    —————-
    If you are going to try to correct me at least get some facts right. 49ers were penalized during Seifert era.
    There’s not telling how much video taping was done before those superbowls. Let’s not forget that Belichick and Brady would not even have been mentioned in this article if the Raiders were not jobbed.
    It’s almost sacrilegious to mention Belichick in the same sentence as Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, etc.
    Those were the truly great ones.

  76. jbcommonsense says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:58 PM
    Belichick never won a super bowl without Brady. Walsh won super bowls with 2 different QBs, and Gibbs won super bowls with 3 different QBs. That is a much better measure of who was the superior coach.

     

    Walsh won 3 SB with the same QB (Montana)
    Gibbs won 3 with different QB’s because of there defense and running game.

  77. mjdkid100:
    Amen!!
    I use the exact same quote for the naive idiots. They only throw out the spygate crap as an excuse to why their team sucks and the Pats keep rolling. It’s unbelievable how uninformed some people are and are not afraid to show the world.

  78. nemyx1 says: Jan 20, 2012 2:55 PM

    I bet the Browns disagree.
    ======================================
    That would be the Ravens. BB brought the Browns from a terrible record to respectability, knocking the Parcells coached Patriots out of the Playoffs.

    The following year is when things went south. Art Modell announced that the team was moving to Baltimore, the fans revolted, the players got caught up in the controversy. The team tanked and BB was fired.

    BB has commented that he learned from that experience. He tried to coach too much like Parcells, which didn’t fit his personality. He changed his coaching style and he’s done all right since.

    I’m betting there aren’t too many people in Cleveland who’d mind having him take the Browns again.

  79. derfshambeaux says:
    Jan 20, 2012 2:55 PM
    I bet Norv Turner could be the greatest coach of all time if he video taped his opponents’ defensive practices.
    ———————————————————
    Norv Turner could be in the huddle of his opponent’s practices, and STILL lose.

  80. I would have loved to see Lombardi’s Packers take on Belichek’s Patriots with 1960’s football rules. Then we’d know who’s the best. Lombardi by a mile.

  81. As a former college player, the video taping thing is more comical than anything else. The hate just shows how badly he’s been kicking everyone’s ass all over the place for 10 years.

  82. mjdkid100 says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:59 PM
    Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game…All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

    So you can video as long as you do it from the approved
    area.

  83. I’m not saying he isn’t in the coversation but let’s see if he can win without TB. Noll coudn’t without Bradshaw and so on.

    The FA thing cuts both ways – in a previous era he doesn’t get Randy Moss or a host of other vets that have help keep them in contention each year.

    Of course there are 3 other teams that might have something to say about anointing BB just yet.

  84. Lombardi is the standard bearer for coaching because he was the face of the best team when the leagues merged, but he coached over 40 years ago, mostly in an era when there were 14 teams and the game was a totally different animal. It’s like comparing apples to oranges.

  85. Um…no, no, no, not even close.

    In the 70s, in order to win 4 SBs, the Pittsburgh Steelers had to go thru the Miami Dolphins of the early 70s. You might have heard of them? 3 straight SB appearances, 2 SB wins and the only undefeated season. The Steelers had to go thru the Oakland Raiders, a team that won 3 SBs in 7 years from 76 to 83. Pittsburgh had to go thru the Raiders almost every year in the 70s. And the Steeler had to go thru the Dallas Cowboys (2 SBs in the 70s)

    Or how about the 1980s 49ers? The Niners had to go thru three great teams to win 4 SBs: Washington Redskins (3 SBs), NY Giants (2SBs) and Chicago Bears in the 80s.

    In the 90s, the Dallas Cowboys had to go thru the 49ers and Buffalo Bills (4 straight SB appearances).

    And what great teams did the Patriots have to go thru (after the Tuck rule gift)? The Colts? The Colts were a good, but not great team.

    Bellichik takes a back seat to Walsh, Lombardi, Knoll, Madden, Gibbs, and Parcells. Those coaches had to beat great teams to win their championships. Not a single one of them lost a super bowl.

  86. I doubt anyone would debate he is one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game.

    If they pull it off this year could anyone deny he is the greatest?
    Not only to win for so long but to win so many different ways. If they win with Brady the elite gun slinger and they won with Brady the game manager.
    That says a lot about the coach.
    With parity, with free agency, with replay,with Chad Ocho Cinko..

    Not a patriots fan, but it is what it is.

  87. bobhk says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:14 PM
    On a more serious note, a mark of a good leader and a successful coach is who he brings behind him. In this regard he’s a complete failure. Not one of his assistants have been a success elsewhere.
    Contrast this to his mentor, Parcells. Many of his assistants have gone on to success. Consider Bill Walsh and his impact on how the game is played. His coaching tree and the number of assistants that won superbowl is huge.
    It’s called coaching tree and Belichick ain’t got one.

    I expect Kraft to be biased. On an owner-coach combo, it’d be hard to beat deBartolo Walsh combo
    ________________________________
    Sp what you’re saying is Walsh had better talent on his coaching staff? Proves the author, and Mr. Kraft right!

  88. #1 Tuck rule game
    #2 Browns will def disagree…can’t win W/O good players
    #3 Spygate Belicheat
    #4 I’ll bet my house he retires the day after Tom “Bieber” Brady does
    #5 keep trading away draft picks

  89. I LOVE all you idiots who are giving Tom Brady credit for those three Super Bowl rings, and saying that Belichick owes them to having a great quarterback.

    Most of you nimrods would say that Peyton Manning is a BETTER quarterback than Brady ……. yet he has only ONE ring.

    Care to explain THAT?????

  90. derfshambeaux says: Jan 20, 2012 2:55 PM
    I bet Norv Turner could be the greatest coach of all time if he video taped his opponents’ defensive practices.
    ======================================================

    davebrownspiral says: Jan 20, 2012 3:20 PM
    Few things on “the great” Belicheck:
    1) The Pats have not won anything since they were busted spying on other teams practices.
    —————————————————-
    Spygate was not about taping practices. The Pats taped GAMES. What they taped was viewable by every person in the stadium. The person taping was on the sidelines, in full view of the opposing team.

    The only way Norv Turner could be the greatest coach of all time would be if he was the only coach of all time. The Chargers have wasted 4, going on 5 years of outstanding talent by leaving him in charge.

    The Patriots are 57-12 including playoffs since Spygate.

    Other than that, you 2 fools make a lot of sense.

  91. It’s so easy to say the word “cheater”, but I wonder how many idiot fans on this site could actually explain what Belichick did wrong.

    Also, it’s debatable how effective it was in winning games. SMH

  92. some of the arguments for other coaches are interesting and make good points.

    then there are those people who seem to get off at any chance to bring up spygate in some overused, predictable and often times illiterate comment that the poor guy thinks is a witty quip.

    As if it somehow repeatedly attacking the patriots legitamacy makes their team more relevant in the past decade. it doesn’t. you just embarrass yourself is all.

    These guys, they just read juicy headlines that are meant to generate views and listen to hype that the media has sensationalized to create controversy and drive attention.
    some people are able to wade through the nonesense, others just blindly follow whatever the media tells them and of course are self appointed experts on the matter. unfortunate.

  93. LOL. I love how everyone calls Belichick a cheater, but Chuck Noll is a “real” hall of fame coach.

    I’d have to say that giving your players steroids helps your team a lot more than videotape of some hand signals that any clown sitting in the stadium can see.

  94. He was fired once in Cleveland. Would have been fired if Brady did not come along. Chuck Noll is the best coach. He drafted and coached those great Hall of Fame teams

  95. Any “Belicheat” comment = frustration that the New England Patriots have crushed your dreams on more than one occasion over the course of the past 11 years. I’m sorry he broke a rule by filming defensive signals IN PLAIN VIEW to 70,000 people in every stadium. Teams change their signals all the time. Always have.

    68-23 from 2001-2005, 67-19 since “spygate” with a rebuilding team who lost every single key defensive cog from their Super Bowl years. 4 AFC East crowns, 1 play away from winning 1 Super Bowl, 1 game away from another after we win the AFC Championship Game on Sunday. Keep hatin’, we’ll just keep winning.

  96. Folks, this is not a publication stating Belichick’s is the greatest. it’s the opinion of the owner of his team. Who’s shocked that Mr. Kraft is biased, and willing to overlook that his coach got caught cheating?

  97. In January of 1997, Robert Kraft and Bill Parcells were standing on a podium at the old stadium in Foxboro and Kraft while accepting the AFC championship trophy referred to Parcells as “the greatest coach in the history of the NFL”.

  98. rexryanisablowhard says:
    Jan 20, 2012 4:18 PM
    Really, which 2 exactly did Walsh win Super Bowls with? Not questioning Walsh as a great coach, but Young took over as QB 3 years after Walsh retired and won a SB 3 years after that. Also not questioning Gibbs, but what exactly did he do with Ramsey, Brunell and Campbell from ’04-’07? Your arguement is meritless.

    jbcommonsense says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:58 PM
    Belichick never won a super bowl without Brady. Walsh won super bowls with 2 different QBs, and Gibbs won super bowls with 3 different QBs. That is a much better measure of who was the superior coach.
    ——————–
    Walsh did not win a superbowl with Young but if you get your history right he’s the one who acquired Young (essentially fleeced TB). Walsh put a successor in place even when Montana was hitting his prime. Foresight is another great trait of great coaches.
    Brady will be 35 when the next season starts. Who does Belichick have lined up to be the heir apparent? Exactly. Watch for Belichick and Pats to start a slide in a year or so…

  99. flash 1283 Gibbs Vertical passing game also helped win those Super Bowls as well. The 1982, 1983, 1987 and 1991 Redskins team would beat the Patriots if they had played at the same time.

  100. mjdkid100 says: Jan 20, 2012 3:29 PM

    Does anyone on here even understand what Spygate was? I always see people reference he taped other teams practices. THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!! Go ask John Tomase how that worked out for him.

    They did tape other teams defensive hand signals during the game. You know, the ones out in the open for everyone to see. If youre going to come with ridiculous hate and stupidity at least try to get some facts straight.

    NO PRACTICES WERE EVER TAPED!!!!
    ___________

    ^^^^this

  101. Any Steeler fan who accuses Belichick of “taping praktises” (duh…he taped signals during games) needs to take a look at their own team which pumped its own players so full of winstrol (google: Terry Bradshaw steroids) that there are like 4 of them still alive over the age of 50.

  102. pftcensorssuck says:
    Jan 20, 2012 4:38 PM
    I LOVE all you idiots who are giving Tom Brady credit for those three Super Bowl rings, and saying that Belichick owes them to having a great quarterback.

    Most of you nimrods would say that Peyton Manning is a BETTER quarterback than Brady ……. yet he has only ONE ring.

    Care to explain THAT?????

    __
    TEAMS win Super Bowls…not individual players.

    Explained.

    Besides, anyone with more than half a brain (New England sports fans miss the cut) knows that the Patriot defense was a much more important factor in winning those three SBs than Brady was.

  103. grogansheroes says:
    Jan 20, 2012 4:34 PM
    bobhk says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:14 PM
    On a more serious note, a mark of a good leader and a successful coach is who he brings behind him. In this regard he’s a complete failure. Not one of his assistants have been a success elsewhere.
    Contrast this to his mentor, Parcells. Many of his assistants have gone on to success. Consider Bill Walsh and his impact on how the game is played. His coaching tree and the number of assistants that won superbowl is huge.
    It’s called coaching tree and Belichick ain’t got one.

    I expect Kraft to be biased. On an owner-coach combo, it’d be hard to beat deBartolo Walsh combo
    ________________________________
    Sp what you’re saying is Walsh had better talent on his coaching staff? Proves the author, and Mr. Kraft right!
    —————-
    I don’t think you understand. A big part of a coaching job is the x and o and another part of it assembling the best coaching talent around him. If you are a NFL leader and a talent evaluator then you assemble a great team and promote you assistants to succeed too.
    It’s fairly obvious that Walsh was a much much superior x and o person compared to Belichick. Many many teams 20 years later still use his methods. He’s produced a better coaching tree. He’s a far better talent evaluator (as evidenced by the Young trade). The 1986 draft is widely regarded as one of the best (if not the best) drafts in NFL history.
    Don’t know how anyone can put Belichick in the same class as him (or Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Brown, etc)

  104. Belichick is the best coach of the past decade (and of this decade, unless pat shurmur works out…kidding!) But the best of all time would be saying too much in my mind. Top 10, without a doubt. Probably even top 5. New England had something very special from 01-04 with that soild veteran defense, Weis, Crennel, BB, and of course Brady. To all of those bringing up no championshiips since spygate, I think its more telling that there has been no titles since weis and romeo left. Its hard to find goos help. Those two corrdinators were as big of a part of the dynasty as bb and brady were. And does spygate make me doubt a little? Sure but to all of the chuck noll lovers, please remember that the 70s steelers are the most noted juiced up teams of all time. This is all coming from a diehard, season ticket holding Colts fan. Let me be on record with this, BB is a better coach, kraft if the better owner, pats are the better team BUT manning is better than brady.

  105. Lol, I’m not a Belichick fan but I gave to admit the coach and his teams compete very year. The jokes or statements about spygate, Mcdaniels, all that is old, exhausted as much as the Ryan feet jokes. I’m not a Patriots fan but they are always competitive every year. It cracks me up when all this jealousy drives the comments. Of course the ones making the comments would think differently it was their teams coach. To many people let their Homer feelings dictate what they comment.

  106. And btw, my last comment on manning v. Brady was not ti start a wat but just to have some fun with the mature pats fans. Best of ‘luck’ vs the ravens this Sunday!

  107. jbcommonsense says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:58 PM
    Belichick never won a super bowl without Brady. Walsh won super bowls with 2 different QBs, and Gibbs won super bowls with 3 different QBs. That is a much better measure of who was the superior coach.
    ——————–
    Walsh did not win a superbowl with Young but if you get your history right he’s the one who acquired Young (essentially fleeced TB). Walsh put a successor in place even when Montana was hitting his prime. Foresight is another great trait of great coaches.
    Brady will be 35 when the next season starts. Who does Belichick have lined up to be the heir apparent? Exactly. Watch for Belichick and Pats to start a slide in a year or so…
    ————————————————-
    The Gibbs comment is a valid one.

    Belichick – Brady
    Lombardi – Starr
    Noll – Bradshaw
    Walsh – Montana

    When Brady went down for a year, in his prime, BB had Cassell, who never started a game in college go 11-5, and become a starter for an NFL team.

    As for succession planning, they currently have Brian Hoyer as a backup and Ryan Mallet, who many projected as the top QB in last year’s draft and may develop as the heir apparent.

  108. blspears says:
    Jan 20, 2012 5:01 PM
    flash 1283 Gibbs Vertical passing game also helped win those Super Bowls as well. The 1982, 1983, 1987 and 1991 Redskins team would beat the Patriots if they had played at the same time.

     —–
    They did have a good vertical game I agree.
    As for those teams matching up with current teams, not sure.

  109. ricknro says: Jan 20, 2012 4:38 PM

    Opps, Parcells did loose one SB…my bad.
    ====================================
    And he never won one without BB as his defensive coordinator.

  110. patriotinvasion says:
    Jan 20, 2012 5:02 PM
    mjdkid100 says: Jan 20, 2012 3:29 PM

    Does anyone on here even understand what Spygate was? I always see people reference he taped other teams practices. THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!! Go ask John Tomase how that worked out for him.

    They did tape other teams defensive hand signals during the game. You know, the ones out in the open for everyone to see. If youre going to come with ridiculous hate and stupidity at least try to get some facts straight.

    NO PRACTICES WERE EVER TAPED!!!!
    ___________

    ^^^^this

    ================================
    Why even bother ansewring? In their pathectic little minds, they are right and everything Patriot is evil. Let them waste away in their twisted little world while we watch the Patriots raise the bar higher and higher year after year.

  111. beerbaron says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:16 PM
    Super Bowl titles since 2002:

    Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, Colts, Jets, and every other AFC team: 3

    Patriots: 3

    @beer
    The ravens won the super bowl in 2000. What are you speaking of? The jets haven’t won a super since FOREVER (I don’t care what Rex says). Your list is completely unclear.

  112. Looks like the Spygate deviants are at it again. These same people probably think Rex Ryan is the answer for the Jets.

    Mr. Kraft you are correct. BIll Belichick is one of the greatest if not the greatest NFL coach of all time. Two weeks from now it will be even more obvious.

  113. Look at all the cry babies on here. “HE BEAT MY TEAM” wha wha wha do you guys need your blankies!!! GET OVER IT

    PATS 27

    RAVENS 13

  114. tommyf15 says:
    Jan 20, 2012 5:35 PM
    The “Belicheater” crowd needs to wipe that runny mascara from their tearstained faces.

    __
    Right after the Pats fan crowd wipes BB and TB’s collective splooge from their little faces.

  115. Other than looking like and sounding like the old Tim Conway (comedian) in the old Carol Burnett TV show and his cut off sweaty, I guess he’s ok.

  116. Don’t know why Pat’s fans feel the need to defend or argue with trolls.

    Three shiney, beautiful, clean, untainted Lombardi’s that will not be given back or taken back.

    Haters: What are you going to do about it? Cry? And cry some more?

    Many haters out there are very worried that number 4 is on the way.

    What are you going to do about it?

  117. The Gibbs comment is a valid one.

    Belichick – Brady
    Lombardi – Starr
    Noll – Bradshaw
    Walsh – Montana

    When Brady went down for a year, in his prime, BB had Cassell, who never started a game in college go 11-5, and become a starter for an NFL team.

    As for succession planning, they currently have Brian Hoyer as a backup and Ryan Mallet, who many projected as the top QB in last year’s draft and may develop as the heir apparent.
    ——-
    Even if you believe Cassell to be a quality starter (let alone a HOF candidate) he’s no longer on the team.

    Hoyer is a backup and not much more than that.
    You could be right about Mallet but it remains to be seen. It’s kinda late to look I think. Most QBs (like Brady) don’t perform very well beyond 35 (exceptions: Favre, Elway). BTW, both were not injured severely during their career.
    You can see what happened to Manning when he hit 36.

  118. If taping helped a team win, the jets would have won somehting by now since they were caught taping at Foxboro the game before they turned the Pats in.

  119. “Robert Kraft thinks Bill Belichick is the best coach in NFL history”

    …and Robert Kraft is wrong.

  120. Hoyer is a backup and not much more than that

    Based on what?

    By all accounts I’ve seen and heard, the guy can play.

  121. Don’t know how anyone can put Belichick in the same class as him (or Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Brown, etc)

    Salary cap / free agency

    That’s how.

  122. @bunkmcnulty: First of all, thanks for having an actual well thought out response. It’s good to see there’s still some people (well one at least) who know football and can come up with a disagreement more elaborate than “belicheat sucks”

    Anyways, of course he was lucky that he got Brady. If anyone had any clue of what he’d turn into he would have been a top pick. But that doesn’t discount the fact that he (and of course Weis) also played an important role in Bradys development, otherwise Brady would have started day one. Ask yourself, If Brady had been drafted by the Arizona Cardinals for example, would he have become the QB he is today? I for one don’t really know.

    Secondly, you’re right about the coaches. Some have had awesome QB’s, others haven’t. Football is the ultimate TEAM sport. And the head coach is the one responsible for the TEAM. I give respect for any coach whom has won the big one, regardless of how they and their team achieved it. Just because different coaches have won in different ways, it doesn’t really matter to me. All that matters is that they win. And Belichick has won three. Not too shabby.

    Lastly, spygate. Yes, he did get fined half a million, lost a draft pick, and you forgot the team itself was fine an additional 250,000. But try to remember back to that week, and the circumstances surrounding it. Belichick was already not very popular, press and fellow coaches alike. In his first seven years with the patriots before “spygate”, he had won the SB three times, and made it to the AFC championship four times. Plus he’s not exactly nice to the media.

    Also keep in mind how Mr. Goodell is. His job is to protect the brand, to make the sport grow. This means bringing in more casual fans who don’t know the sport as well. These fans will be more likely to be fans of their teams rather than general fans of the sport. This is a big difference.

    Then spygate broke. The media went nuts. Revenge for all those surly news conferences. Players who had lost very big, emotional games piled on. It was an intense atmosphere that week, even as people who knew the sport and rules knew that it was a violation of location, NOT taping.

    Roger Goodell ruled on the matter a full week after the incident. I believe he put such a huge penalty on him more as a reaction to how it was being portrayed, and less due to the actual violation. He thought by doing this it would calm down the casual fans and media. Of course it did just the opposite and now you hear (five years later mind you) “if it wasn’t a big deal why did the tapes get destroyed!?”
    Somehow people forget that Matt Walsh had multiple more tapes, and they were all broadcast to the public.

  123. so what..BB knew The Exact play the other team was running…because he “may or may not” have been watching the other teams practices….everybody seems to forget that jimmy johnston flat out stated this was more prevelant than the patriots organization….besides even if you gave that info to say a guy like pete carrol he couldn’t do a damn thing with it…..how’d he do as a pats coach? Oh yea he took a superbowl pats teams with an abundance of draft picks and drove them to the bottom of the nfl in four years……

    Now “cheating” aside, can anybody honestly say if you wanted to begin an organization today, bb is by far and away your number 1 choice. So before you trash him just admit you’d still want him

  124. @hoodie
    We all get your love for the pats, and bellisuck, but come on…… Why would they destroy tapes unless there was something incriminating on it? You can’t tell me you can’t look at that objectively and actually see that it looks extremely shady??? If you can’t then you aren’t a true football fan. You are only a fan of the pats and belli.

  125. @hoodiehollywood

    I agree, it is nice to come across a rival fan who has more ideas and thoughts to provoke good discussions, than the all too typical middle-school beat down remarks that permeate this blog.

    As a Ravens fan I have seen a week of hell on this Ed Reed – Flacco stuff because of the media. I will tell you, Ed was right and wrong. Right on the content of his remarks and wrong to say them outloud with a microphone. But let me tell you, there is no problem in the Ravens locker room. None. We don’t have that Jets stuff here. The media has been ridiculous on this issue this week.

    So I hear you when you talk about media scrutiny. Because of Ray’s mistakes when he was very young in his career our franchise has been assigned a “bad ass” image. So anything out of line catches hell. And along those lines I see where BB’s career long disdain for the press would have been his undoing once the spygate thing hit. There was “blood in the water” and the press did take off and had a field day.

    I am not the typical hater of Goodell on PFT. I think that it is an incredibly difficult job. And I at least have perspective that he is not out to ruin this game. Quite the opposite. So I do not believe he has the agenda many, many others think he has on here.

    That said, I have always wondered (and still do) whether there was more that was dicovered in that investigation than anyone knows. And frankly, I understand big business and have no issue that there could be information that has been kept under wraps for the good of the game. Kraft is a good business man and may have played a role in negotiating what eventually was dealt as punishments. To me, that easily explains the length of Goodell adjucation of this matter. I do respect your view of this. I do. But those are incredible penalties for mere non compliance issues of having a camera in the wrong locale, or not identified correctly.

    Anyway, thank you for the earlier compliment and best to your team Sunday. I still want to win, but I want to be a good sport about it.

  126. Lombardi is by far the best ever. 5 titles in a 7 year span plus three in a row. Now I understand back then they didn’t have free agency but most of the teams Lombardi coached against were stacked. Also there was no wildcards and the only way to get into the playoffs was to win your division. Then again you can say Lombardi won 7 title games. 5 NFL Championships and 2 AFL/NFL Championship games.

  127. Lombardi. Period. And no, I wouldn’t want Belichick coaching my team. Not ever. If you’re talking history of the game its Lombardi. Kraft goes with the flavor of the month, first Parcells, now Belichick. It’s called the “Lombardi” trophy for a reason!

  128. Set aside the fact that belichick does not measure up to the luminaries of the coaching world its pretty disrespectful of that punk Kraft to put his punk above the great ones.
    FA argument works both ways. Guys before FA did not have a chance to buy a FA to improve their team like belcheat.

  129. Remember earlier in Brady’s career people said he wasn’t that great and he was a “system quarterback?”

    Now a few years later people are saying Belichick isn’t that good because Brady is the man.

    Which is it, people?

  130. None of the people who started out under him have distinguished themselves when they left.

    True

    So what?

    The Patriots got in trouble in 2007 for stealing defensive signals.

    Is there ANYONE out there so naive as to suggest that other teams don’t do it?

  131. Joe Gibbs went to four super bowls and won three with three different QBs, none of which will go to the hall of fame. Also had a different RB each time. He went to another NFC title game with Jay Schreider at QB. He went to the playoffs with Mark Brunell and Todd Collins as his QBs the second time around after being out of NFL for 12yrs. Noll, Walsh, and Belichick are all GREAT coaches but they won with two hall of fame QBs and Tom Brady is a lock first ballot HOFer when his time comes. Coach Gibbs gets left out of these discussions alot, but I think his record holds up quit nicely.

  132. When I saw the title to the thread I thought that was freaking hilarious.

    Bill Parcells is the best along with Chuck Noll,
    Lombardi and Tom Landry.

    Billy the Cheater is ok but best ever, hahahah,
    well Kraft is entitled to wrong thoughts.

  133. @bunkmcnulty:
    That said, I have always wondered (and still do) whether there was more that was dicovered in that investigation than anyone knows. And frankly, I understand big business and have no issue that there could be information that has been kept under wraps for the good of the game. Kraft is a good business man and may have played a role in negotiating what eventually was dealt as punishments. To me, that easily explains the length of Goodell adjucation of this matter. I do respect your view of this. I do. But those are incredible penalties for mere non compliance issues of having a camera in the wrong locale, or not identified correctly.
    __________________________________

    interesting point made earlier as well about what else was on the tapes that were destroyed.

    Of course, Jimmy Johnson’s well publicized comments about how he was taught to do it ” 18 years earlier in KC” I believe, underscores at least 2 other important considerations.

    The smaller of the 2 is: How much did Video Taping assist, enable and/propell Jimmy’s teams to create what was the last known Dynasty prior to NE?
    The answer for that questions is the same answer as it pertains to NE: NO ONE will ever know.
    Yet, scrubs keep harping on it as if this is the only reason that Belichick and Brady ever won anything.
    Kinda silly when you really look at it.

    The other larger point is that the NFL is, and has been for quite some time, a “Copy Cat” league.

    Can any fan from any area claim state without question, that their team was not doing the same thing all those “years”?
    If they weren’t then they MAY have been at a competititve disadvantage.
    Or maybe they were all just “saints” and “fair-play” type teams??? See no evil hear no evil?

    This leagues on field competitiveness is exceeded only by the corporate bottom line. Somehow, It’s difficult to envision a franchise that was NOT pushing the envelope. The memo went to all teams, not just NE. Belichick was brazen and careless enough to get caught.
    Where theres smoke there fire and it wasn’t exclusively in NE.
    If someone truly believe that, then you need to go to college and take a few business courses and get back to us when you grow up.

  134. Do all of you people mentioning spygate while extolling Knoll forget that the Stealers were all on steroids in the 70’s. Jeebus…

  135. It’s almost sad reading all the sour grapes comments from the haters. But we Pats fans forgive you. I can’t imagine what it must be like being a loser chasing a pipe dream with a loser team year after year. I’d lash out with frivolous and disrespectful comments too.

  136. The “Salary Cap era” explanation is nonsense. The Colts went to the Super Bowl twice, with two coaches; the Steelers went three times, with two coaches. Just because we are in the “Salary Cap era” does not mean we are in the “parity era.” The salary cap has had zero effect on the AFC this decade.

  137. Knoll, Gibbs, and Walsh all have equal or more Super Bowls, although I think Bellichick is a great coach. People are going to bring up the video-taping incident and say that diminishes his accomplishments, but if he doesn’t win another SB after that incident, I still think he is at most fourth behind the aforementioned coaches.

  138. gibbsandflair says:
    Jan 21, 2012 4:40 PM
    Joe Gibbs went to four super bowls and won three with three different QBs, none of which will go to the hall of fame. Also had a different RB each time. He went to another NFC title game with Jay Schreider at QB. He went to the playoffs with Mark Brunell and Todd Collins as his QBs the second time around after being out of NFL for 12yrs. Noll, Walsh, and Belichick are all GREAT coaches but they won with two hall of fame QBs and Tom Brady is a lock first ballot HOFer when his time comes. Coach Gibbs gets left out of these discussions alot, but I think his record holds up quit nicely.
    _______________
    I could not agree more. See my earlier post. You did a better job of explaining this than I did. Overall, were there many HOF’rs on those teams? Jacoby, Riggins, Monk (although many say he shouldn’t be), Green. Not a bad core. Still without a superstar QB, pretty amazing record.

  139. “Robert Kraft thinks Bill Belichick is the best coach in NFL history”

    ———————————————————-

    Of course he is.

    He’s the best coach in history at cheating…

  140. Joe Gibbs won in an era with no salary cap and you could stash players on IR. Gibbs came back in ’04 and showed just how average he is.

  141. djstat says:
    Jan 27, 2012 9:57 AM
    Joe Gibbs won in an era with no salary cap and you could stash players on IR. Gibbs came back in ’04 and showed just how average he is.
    ==========
    uh, the last time Gibbs coached, was the last time the Redskins were in the playoffs, numbskull.

    back to the topic, Walsh changed entire offenses. I will say Belichick was able to create players and use role players in the most effective and resourceful ways. He will certainly be in that conversation with a win in February.

  142. dabigbangclock says:
    Jan 20, 2012 3:06 PM
    If Bill wins #4 this yr he is the best coach of all time, he is already in the pantheon with Lombardi, Brown, and Walsh, but with #4 he will stand alone… He is such an innovator and with another title this yr he will be the only guy to have won super bowls in 2 distinct eras (both pre and post Goodell Football League)

    =========

    Did he win in the 90’s? That would be 2 distinct eras, silly.

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