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Eagles say the season, not the Combine, is the time to judge players

2011 NFL Scouting Combine - Day 4 Getty Images

The NFL Scouting Combine begins this week, and the entire NFL world will converge on Indianapolis to watch players perform the 40-yard dash and the three-cone drill and the bench press and a bunch of other things other than actually playing football.

Some teams will make significant changes to their draft boards based on watching players do things other than play football, but the Philadelphia Eagles vow they will not be one of them.

We’ll try to stick to where our board is now,” Eagles General Manager Howie Roseman told Philly.com.

Roseman said the Eagles’ scouting staff was hard at work throughout the college football season, and a few days of workouts in Indianapolis won’t radically change the grades the scouts have already put on the players.

“What we really try to do is, as much as we can, keep it based on the play from August to December,” Roseman said. “This is the time of year where it could play mind games on you, because you get into the all-star games, and you get into the combine and you meet with these guys, and you have to be in a position where you have to stick to your beliefs on how they play, the background they come from, as opposed to guys who flash.”

A 1995 Eagles draft pick is the player most often cited for an example of a team foolishly changing its draft board because of the combine: Philadelphia chose Mike Mamula seventh overall after he put on a great performance at the Combine, and Mamula’s name has become NFL shorthand for a workout warrior who never produced on the field in college or in the pros.

The reality is more complicated than that: Mamula was already a highly regarded prospect even before the 1995 Scouting Combine based on his performance on the field at Boston College. (Here’s a 1994 New York Times article that mentions NFL scouts being impressed after Mamula had two sacks and five tackles for loss against Syracuse.) And Mamula wasn’t as bad in the NFL as he’s sometimes made out to be; he was a starter for the Eagles for five years and recorded 31.5 career sacks.

But while the Mamula case isn’t all it’s been portrayed as, there are NFL teams who become so enamored with a player’s athleticism at the Combine that they overlook that player’s shortcomings on the field. Roseman vows the Eagles will not be one of those teams.

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59 Responses to “Eagles say the season, not the Combine, is the time to judge players”
  1. pixelito says: Feb 20, 2012 6:47 AM

    The season, not the offseason, is the time you judge the Eagles…

  2. marionbarber24isgod says: Feb 20, 2012 6:58 AM

    …My advise to the Eagles about their draft board, just sleep on it the night before the NFL Draft. Then wake up early, get a cup of coffee, then go meet Vince Young at IHOP and discuss how the Draft went in each others dreams. Make a list of each player that the Eagles drafted during ones dream respectively. Then with any names that were in both dreams, roll a dice to rank them on your draft board. Six being the highest, one being the lowest. Settle tiebreakers by simply flipping a coin. After that is done and you have finished your pancakes, go ahead and flip a coin on how the season is going to turn out as well…

  3. sportsmeccabi says: Feb 20, 2012 7:00 AM

    This why Thry drafted Daniel Graham over JPP?

  4. ashman23 says: Feb 20, 2012 7:15 AM

    And R.I.P Mr Davis, guess the Raiders won’t be selecting the fastest guy out there again and again and again

  5. raiderfankirk says: Feb 20, 2012 7:16 AM

    Crack all you want. I hope this is what Reggie Mac has been doing in Oakland with his limited selections. Smart bye the eagles.

  6. raiderfankirk says: Feb 20, 2012 7:18 AM

    Never have been able to figure out the 40 crap. Don’t mean crap unless it’s in pads. I think Jerry Rice ran a 4.5 or something like that. He did ok in the league for a couple years.

  7. fcmlefty1 says: Feb 20, 2012 7:19 AM

    You show me a scout who allows themselves to be swayed by what they see at the Indianapolis Track and Field Invitational, and I’ll show you a piss-poor scout….

  8. reidstinks says: Feb 20, 2012 7:21 AM

    I suggest they just pick the guy Mel Kiper says they should pick. It couldn’t possibly be any worse than what the Eagles have been doing.

    Reid is just AWFUL!!

  9. whathappenedtovox says: Feb 20, 2012 7:25 AM

    This why Thry drafted Daniel Graham over JPP?
    _________________________

    Derp

  10. greenbloodking says: Feb 20, 2012 7:36 AM

    Brandon Graham vs Jason Pierre Paul. Perfect example of that thought process failing monumentally. Our drafts have been terrible except for Desean Jackson & Shady McCoy. Continuing to do the same thing that has not bore any fruit (Super Bowl) is just insane. I blame ownership above all and I pray something amazing happens this offseason.

  11. rjmarrella says: Feb 20, 2012 7:49 AM

    Does anyone else read Roseman’s comments as: “we know who is worth drafting, right now, without seeing them in action.” ?
    Maybe this guy should look over the Eagles first round draft history… Because chances are they might draft me this year… Unless there is another Canadian firefighter on the board at 15….

  12. canetic says: Feb 20, 2012 7:55 AM

    Vernon Gholston is the guy they should be talking about, not Mike Mamula.

    Anyway, I guess this means the Eagles shouldn’t even bother to go to the combine since it’s not going to make a difference to them.

  13. sjoyner59 says: Feb 20, 2012 7:55 AM

    fire Howie,He doesn’t know the first thing about judging a players talent,after all this guys previous position with the club was being one of Banners” bean counters”. As long as “the Jeff and Joe show” continues to think this guy gets it we will not see the Super Bowl

  14. wicky888 says: Feb 20, 2012 8:02 AM

    Yeah because that plan has worked out real well for them thus far ……..

  15. cup0pizza says: Feb 20, 2012 8:06 AM

    Zero super bowl trophies-yay Philly! Dream team.

  16. crucifixkiss says: Feb 20, 2012 8:06 AM

    This article is going to bring back my Vernon Gholston nightmares.

    *shudder*

  17. haileli says: Feb 20, 2012 8:11 AM

    Every year, without fail, I’ve noticed a handful of mid-second round prospects skyrocket into the first round because of the bench press and 40-yard dash. I’d be surprised if even 5 of them lived up to their draft status. The combine is extraordinarily overrated.

  18. baldeaglejohnie says: Feb 20, 2012 8:16 AM

    Dejean Jackson, Lesean McCoy. Jemery Maclin. just need to get some hits on D this time Howie!

  19. tombrookshire says: Feb 20, 2012 8:22 AM

    Yeah, God knows the Eagles have been bitten in the ass more than once overvaluing combine performances such as Brandon Graham and last year’s Danny Watkins. Wonder who the fantasy football GM is targeting this year to be this season’s Eagles draft bust. There have been so many in past drafts to choose from. The way Reid drafts, it seems like God will strike him dead if he doesn’t use his first pick on an undersized offensive or defensive linemen. when what they desperately need is a linebacker who can tackle somebody. Andy, would it hurt to have at least one guy on the defense that was interested in tackling? Really?

  20. Manny Gonzalez says: Feb 20, 2012 8:25 AM

    Whathappenedtovox you nailed it. Actually, by selecting Graham over JPP they won the Super Bowl …. for the Giants

  21. rajbais says: Feb 20, 2012 8:28 AM

    It’s a crappy board, but Roseman, Andy Reid, and all the other front office idiots that have run the Eagles team into the ground will likely be back despite stupidity!!!!

    You see, the media thinks that coaches NEVER decline when Gruden, Shanahan, Tom Flores, and a bunch of other coaches do too!!! They’re not players, thus it’s okay to NEVER age discriminate or question judgement!!!

    Andy Reid has had a declining record from 2009-2011 (2009: 11 wins, 2010: 10 wins, and 2011: 8 wins). As a “genius”, he has failed to put Mike Vick and DeSean Jackson in new situations to succeed as defenses have adjusted to them!!!

    Plus VY???? The OFFENSIVE LINE COACH to defensive coordinator???? Sean McDermott??? Clock management issues???? The LACK of a playoff victory since 2008????

    “Oh, but forget about that,” says the media because it knows everything (bullcrap, NO!!!!) and it will never admit to paying blind loyalty to Reid because it’s to lazy to look at downward trends via data analysis on Microsoft Excel sheets and what people do in the first half of their careers mean that it will be surpassed in the second half of the career!!! Plus the media hates Philly fans when they’re misunderstood for their lack of satisfaction and has one guy to blame for every disaster all the time, Terrell Owens!!! The media = the biggest source of bullcrap that the world can find!!!!!

  22. tombrookshire says: Feb 20, 2012 8:31 AM

    And one more thing Eagles owner and front office – Go Phillies!!! (they hate that :) .

  23. weismobile says: Feb 20, 2012 8:36 AM

    Nah, they’ll wait to draft a guy and put him on the field for 8 games before figuring out he sucks.

  24. eagleempire says: Feb 20, 2012 8:43 AM

    That’s all well & good if the Eagles scouting during the college season was worth a damn. They’ve screwed up the last 2 drafts Howie has run. Kelce might have been a steal, but the high picks have left a lot to be desired.

  25. myeaglescantwin says: Feb 20, 2012 8:43 AM

    Yeah, their scouts should hit up some division 1a schools.. all the the D3 scouting they are doin just isn’t paying off

  26. footba11joe says: Feb 20, 2012 8:48 AM

    I completely agree with the idea of basing 98% of an evaluation on college tape, but I think sometimes workout warriors can work out. Last year, for example, I remember Von Miller’s combine performance moving him up from maybe top 15 (there were concerns about his effort on every down) to top 5. Sure, the Broncos could have had him ranked as 2nd best prospect before the combine, but top-three-for-linebackers in every drill certainly must have solidified their choice. I thought he would be the next Vernon Gholston, but it worked out pretty well for them.

  27. myeaglescantwin says: Feb 20, 2012 8:48 AM

    Howie roseman is a pro,, he got every player Andy wanted. NONE OF THE BLAME SHOULD BE ON HOWIE OR EVEN JUAN,.. Andy makes the decisions, all the blame goes there..

    And all you graham vs jpp.
    Graham had a better rookie year & was injured halfway through.. u can’t make a call on that unless youre a fool. At least they didn’t draft that bum from purdue

  28. vikescry1 says: Feb 20, 2012 8:50 AM

    If that is the way they do it, why sign a dream team full of free agents? Just sayin…

  29. zaggs says: Feb 20, 2012 8:51 AM

    “And Mamula wasn’t as bad in the NFL as he’s sometimes made out to be; he was a starter for the Eagles for five years and recorded 31.5 career sacks.”

    So an average of 6 sacks per season by a Top 10 pick? Um, yeah, thats pretty much a bust. I realize you want to keep defending the guy. But most teams would have preferred Sapp to Mamula.

  30. khuxford says: Feb 20, 2012 9:06 AM

    “baldeaglejohnie says:
    Feb 20, 2012 8:16 AM
    Dejean Jackson, Lesean McCoy. Jemery Maclin. just need to get some hits on D this time Howie!”

    Is that you, Mr. Steinberg? Get to a meeting, STAT!

  31. bleed4philly says: Feb 20, 2012 9:08 AM

    You mean you taking the senior bowl MVP?

  32. bigbluefan1 says: Feb 20, 2012 9:09 AM

    Memo to who ever drafts in Philly

    keep up the good work

    Signed
    The NY Super Bowl winning Giants
    And the rest of the NFC East

  33. drew05 says: Feb 20, 2012 9:13 AM

    Keep doing what you’re doing Howie, Andy and co….

    One of the youngest, most talented teams in the league…2011 was an abberation.

    Go Eagles!

  34. ebeg420 says: Feb 20, 2012 9:24 AM

    sportsmeccabi says: Feb 20, 2012 7:00 AM

    This why Thry drafted Daniel Graham over JPP?

    _____
    If you’re gonna get names wrong, at least use Jimmy Graham……..but in case you need to know, his name is Brandon Graham.

  35. greatdanton77 says: Feb 20, 2012 9:29 AM

    Dream Team

  36. lbdpatch says: Feb 20, 2012 9:52 AM

    bigbluefan1 says:Feb 20, 2012 9:09 AM

    Memo to who ever drafts in Philly

    keep up the good work

    Signed
    The NY Super Bowl winning Giants
    And the rest of the NFC East
    ——————————————————— Ok you figued out how to win the SB. When are you gonna figure out how to beat the Eagles? Eagles own the giants and always have.

  37. eaglescouch says: Feb 20, 2012 10:05 AM

    Mamula was terrible. Just terrible.

  38. nycoccet says: Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM

    Anyone who’s saying the Eagles haven’t drafted well obviously hasn’t watched football for the last 5 years.Djac,maclin, Celek, shady nd every yr find a starter int the later rounds. Trent Cole nd Celek both came after rd 3. I think rd 5 but not positive tho. Their starting center kelce was 6th rd and had pro bowl consideration in a year with no off season . B.Graham looks like a mistake nd JPP.makes it even worse but BG has been hurt nd one mistake is ok with me with all the talent they’ve found in the draft.

  39. haileli says: Feb 20, 2012 10:17 AM

    Ok you figued out how to win the SB. When are you gonna figure out how to beat the Eagles? Eagles own the giants and always have.

    ———————————————-

    So? The Giants have 2 SBs in four years. You can have the regular season. We’ll take the playoffs. Deal?

  40. jakek2 says: Feb 20, 2012 10:25 AM

    Ok you figued out how to win the SB. When are you gonna figure out how to beat the Eagles? Eagles own the giants and always have.
    ———–
    @lbdpatch

    When they starting handing out trophies for regular season wins, then you can talk. Until then, bow down to the DADDIES of the NFL. Your defending world champion New York Football Giants!

  41. ernie ernie says: Feb 20, 2012 10:34 AM

    I agree, just pick whomever and hope they fit in and can play. DUH!
    Lets not forget the mental exam they give either. That means nothing, especially for the QB’s. If they are dumb and can’t read defenses and figure out what play to audible, doesn’t matter, just put them all on the Eagles please.

  42. jakek2 says: Feb 20, 2012 10:35 AM

    Howie should just find Reese at the combine and sit directly behind him.

  43. phillycitizen27 says: Feb 20, 2012 10:48 AM

    Somewhere Na Brown is having a fantastic practice session!

  44. lbdpatch says: Feb 20, 2012 10:49 AM

    Once again If greatness Is decided by trophies then Dan Marino really sucks And thats just one out of dozens of examples.So you can take your trophies and stick them where the sun don’t shine.

  45. mancave001 says: Feb 20, 2012 10:52 AM

    Fire Howie.

  46. sb50 says: Feb 20, 2012 10:58 AM

    I am a huge eagles fan i will and i will admit that it was probably one of the worst picks in picking up graham. he is a stand up 3-4 OLB. wrong scheme. wrong pick, at the wrong time. However, the eagles are one of the best teams in finding later round talents. Like trent cole, stewart bradely, riley cooper, brent celek, jamaar chaney, brian rolle, jason kelece, todd heremans, ect but they really need to stop worrying about the later rounds in this years draft and find that homerun pick in the first and second rounds like they did with jeremy maclin and lesean mccoy

  47. fantom21 says: Feb 20, 2012 11:02 AM

    myeaglescantwin says:
    Feb 20, 2012 8:48 AM

    And all you graham vs jpp.
    Graham had a better rookie year & was injured halfway through.. u can’t make a call on that unless youre a fool. At least they didn’t draft that bum from purdue
    ————————————-
    That bum from Purdue started 1 6 games had 63 tackles, 7.5 sacks,
    1. INT( which he took back for a touchdown), and 4 forced fumbles. Clearly you’re mistaken about that bum.
     

  48. rcampore says: Feb 20, 2012 11:10 AM

    lbdpatch says: Feb 20, 2012 9:52 AM

    bigbluefan1 says:Feb 20, 2012 9:09 AM

    Memo to who ever drafts in Philly

    keep up the good work

    Signed
    The NY Super Bowl winning Giants
    And the rest of the NFC East
    ——————————————————— Ok you figued out how to win the SB. When are you gonna figure out how to beat the Eagles? Eagles own the giants and always have.

    ____________________________________
    In 155 meetings, NYG leads 81-73-2

    Looks like the Eagles own nothing including a SB trophy.

  49. haileli says: Feb 20, 2012 11:12 AM

    lbdpatch says: Feb 20, 2012 10:49 AM

    Once again If greatness Is decided by trophies then Dan Marino really sucks And thats just one out of dozens of examples.So you can take your trophies and stick them where the sun don’t shine.

    —————————————————–

    Trophies are *part* of the equation for greatness, but not the whole thing. Nobody has ever argued that it is the one and only criterion. Your straw man fails. Again, we’ll take the trophies, and you can have the regular season wins. Thanks!

  50. jakek2 says: Feb 20, 2012 11:21 AM

    @lbdpatch – We’d stick them where the sun don’t shine but we have too many to make them fit. Now that we are in the 4 Lombardis and over club with such esteemed teams as Pittsburgh, SF, Dallas and GB, we really are running out of places for all these trophies. Perhaps you can sweep the dust bunnies from your case and send it on over to us. We’ll make good use of it.

    And please…quit referencing Marino. Not only does it make you sound foolish, you never had a QB that could hold Marino’s jock. The Eagles are more related to the Ken Anderson and zero win Bengals than Miami.

  51. dolphins4 says: Feb 20, 2012 11:27 AM

    Buddy Ryan used to say even a blind dog can find a bone every now and then.

  52. ackid47 says: Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM

    Graham has been hurt.We have yet to see what he can do on the field.Jackson,Macklin,Celek,McCoy,Kelce,Avant,Watkins so these are all bad picks by the eagles huh?OK.The giants got 1 player JPP and that makes the Eagles bad.oh because the infamous giants slid in and stole another Superbowl.Atl out of the dome,Death in the packers camp,Muffed punt and they own the patriots anyway.Thats why the giants won a Superbowl.We own the giants year after year.Nothing more than the divisons 3rd place team.as you will see again this upcoming season.All they have is rings,when is the last time the best team in the NFL won a Superbowl?The giants are far from the best team in NFL.just the best team that day.You mad BRO.not at all.I know the best team.and we prove it every year against the Giants.PERIOD.

  53. oldbyrd says: Feb 20, 2012 1:23 PM

    Here is the facts no one can argue:::::Who will be this years Kevin Kolb, Brodrick Bunkly, Winston Justice, Jerome McDougal, Corey Simon, Brandon Grahm, Nate Allen? and more….Looking for a Dwight Feeney year after year, drafting under siezed linemen. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Oh yeah, I forgot Jason Pierre Paul. Wait a minute he was passed over for for Grahm, who they moved up to take…and went on to help the New York Giants win their 2nd Super Bowl in 4 Years. Face it True Eagle Fans….Reid stinks, with his I know everything attitude. The Laurel and Hardy show continues. Reid ( Oliver Hardy ) lies and Stanley Laurel=Jeff Laurie swears to it. Next year you will hear”It’s a fine a mess you’ve gotten us into this time Stanley”

  54. n0hopeleft says: Feb 20, 2012 2:44 PM

    lbdpatch says:
    Feb 20, 2012 9:52 AM
    bigbluefan1 says:Feb 20, 2012 9:09 AM

    Memo to who ever drafts in Philly

    keep up the good work

    Signed
    The NY Super Bowl winning Giants
    And the rest of the NFC East
    ——————————————————— Ok you figued out how to win the SB. When are you gonna figure out how to beat the Eagles? Eagles own the giants and always have.
    ___________________________________

    Bro – you have the worst posts I’ve ever seen.
    Everytime you open your mouth, its about your regular season wins against the Giants. Do you have DeSean Jackson’s punt return playing on repeat in your TV room? I hope so, for your sanity.

    We figured out how to win a Superbowl FOUR times, and you’re team hasn’t ever figured it out.
    How pathetic is that?!?!?!

    Jerry Reese is laughing at this article.

  55. n0hopeleft says: Feb 20, 2012 3:12 PM

    And at the end of the season is the time to judge the Eagles franchise.

    YOU GUYS SUCK! Win something significant so your pathetic fans don’t have to come up with lame excuses for your pathetic existence.

    Sincerely,
    The Entire NFC East

  56. oldbyrd says: Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM

    I am an old Eagles fan and it hurts to say The New York Giants got it right. No excuses, they won. They won with linebackers that can play and tackle. They won with a Fabulos DE that Reid could have had. They won with with BRAINS and leadership. All of us Eagle Fans must admit…..What kind of decesion was it to make Casey Mattress and the other 2 -7th round draft picks starting linebackers…Truth be known, they were the worst in all pro football. Every reporting sports pub. knows this. Reid with his typical (I don’t need good linebackers) Because I know everything blew it again. Bengals, 49ers and others have shown improvement in the last three hyears. So, I ask you fans….where were the Eagles in the last 3 years…..REID……..MUST GO……WAIT, HOLD IT, JEFF LAURIE JUST SAID” ANDY REID IS THE COACH TO TAKE US TO THE SUPER BOWL” RIGHT JEFF!!!!!

  57. eliudcooper says: Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM

    Graham will b lot better this year so half u fake ass eagle fan will eat ur words and don’t for get look how long it took bill to win with the steelers give it time Half the teams in the league hasn’t even won a Super Bowl or even made it to one

  58. greenbloodking says: Feb 22, 2012 7:23 AM

    Graham MIGHT be better this year. JPP is a superstar that was extremely instrumental in the Giants Superbowl run. And just because it took a long time for another coach to win doesn’t mean It’s gonna happen here. Let’s face it, Andy Reid is not Bill Cowher and even if they have similar records, Reid doesn’t have a superbowl driven organization backing him or anyone with true football knowledge in place above him to check him. Do you truly think The Rooneys would have allowed the linebacker position to be undervalued and ignored for so long? Doubt it. Those are football guys that know THE SPORT, not just THE BUSINESS. I think we will be much better this year provided that they draft correctly… But if Andy Reid continues to ignore arguably the best if not top 3 running backs in the league at crucial times in crucial games then we are gonna be right on this board again next year listening to dumb ass Giants fans that always bring up our lack of Rings when we talk about beating them. I will say this… Congrats on the Super Bowl ring. You guys deserved it…but unless those rings are from the Green Lantern Core, they won’t help you when you see us on the field. They certainly haven’t helped this far.

  59. philyeagles5 says: Feb 28, 2012 12:00 AM

    why are you guys talking about them blowing it on drafting JPP? they shouldve drafted Earl Thomas.

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