I disagree.

Pay-for-performance isn’t against the rules per se (as far as I understand). What’s against the rules is setting a bounty on someone in the sense of paying to see them injured with malicious intent, or at least the intent to collect the bounty.

But that’s not what happened.

What took place was a program in which guys were rewarded for any number of big defensive plays (interceptions, caused fumbles, touchdowns, tackles inside the 20, etc.) including big LEGAL hits, where, if the hit was hard enough to ring a guy’s bell or otherwise put him out of the game, then a certain amount was added.

The fact that the hits were required to go unpenalized is the key point — and that’s what makes it just like a boxing manager paying a fighter a bonus to win by K.O. instead of T.K.O.

I’m not defending the idea that illegal hits — or illegal intents — should have been rewarded. IF they were, then yes, Goodell should bring down the hammer.

But I see absolutely no problem with players rewarding other players — even with the OK from the coaching staff — for making big defensive plays, big hits, and thus bell-ringers, etc. included.

It’s you who is confused. The scandal isn’t about the legality or the illegality of “hits”. Whether or not a penalty was called for a certain play is irrelevant to the issues at hand. Pay-for-performance is a violation of NFL rules. It violates the CBA. And it is the pooling of money with the specific purpose of paying a player who inflicts injury on another player that is reprehensible here. Yeah, you can get your nose broken playing the game. That’s one thing. It’s another thing entirely getting your nose broken because the other team has a pool going to see who can collect the money by breaking your nose. And what is alarming Roger Goodell.

I’d be really interested to know how much he would’ve gotten to injure Adrian Peterson this past season—

Watch the game— One play, Adrian goes off on Greer after a play/tackle. After the game, AD commented that Greer was intentionally twisting his leg after the play was over.

Bounties might be “global” but assault and battery are AGAINST the law. It doesn’t make it right.

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SIR you are proving my point. I never said assault/battery isn’t against the law…where did you read that?
What I AM saying though is that this world is corrupt and even if you’re not inflicting pain on someone, don’t you think it’s even more messed up to destroy marriages because of the collusion that is going on around the poker tables? It doesn’t even become gambling at that point with these silent bounties that are unaware to the field of tournament players right?

And seriously, who knows if James Harrison and Suh are struggling to speak up right now? Their NFL images are being ruined…while Keith Butler and Kris Kocurek are paying them to keep quiet. WHO KNOWS.

And NO I’m not working, NO I don’t have co-workers, and NO I’m not making money right now, BUT one day when I do, I guarantee you I will be aware of secret bounties and side bets that goes on around the office. Maybe it’s just me who’s run into a lot of bad friends or angle shooters, and I’ve had enough with the the schemer behind the scenes trying to get that promotion. It’s not fair.

Bounties are global

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Okay, so you’ll be all right if YOUR boss (assuming you have one) offers YOUR co-worker (assuming again that you have one) X amount of dollars to run over you with the forklift and put you on worker’s comp for a year or more (assuming you have a job)?

Bounties might be “global” but assault and battery are AGAINST the law. It doesn’t make it right.

Because in the end, even if you gave the Vikings all of the Saints draft picks, and fined every player and coach, the Saints still have a Lombardi Trophy and Super Bowl rings, and the Vikings don’t.

It was one of the dirtiest hits I have ever seen. Amazingly, Smitty didn’t get hurt, but I would like to know if there was a bounty on him.

*Fujita cheap shot on Steve Smith (youtube)

Dude…you could not possibly be any dumber.

Harrison has a bad rep because he hits too hard.

If any of those Saints defenders knew how to even tackle, they would have WAY worse reputations than Harrison.

Those defensive backs launch with the crown of their helmet ALL OF THE TIME. The difference is, they don’t knock people out.

Heck even a HOFer like Ray Lewis hasn’t knocked as many people out as Harrison and Lewis has more helmet to helmet hits since 2007 than James Harrison does.

You only know about Harrison because the league made you notice. How is it that he has 5 fines in the last 6 fines in the last 3 years and no one even NOTICED that the Saints were specifically hitting players after the play was dead?

Maybe because the league was watching Harrison.

He has 2 late hits, 2 helmet to helmet hits and 2 unnecessary roughness penalties out about 4500 defensive snaps, yet you’re concerned about him?

The Saints hit Favre on all 60 offensive plays that day, and they got one penalty.

You’re clueless.

Williams insituted a “bonus” program that got his players to play a lil harder and together. Companies do this all the time.

I have yet to hear anybody say that Williams system intent was to seriously injure or end the career of anyone.
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I would say paying a player the bounty if someone was taken off the field on a stretcher or had to stay out of the game would be to “seriously injure”

C’mon man, are you kidding?

Legal/Illegal is a distinction without a difference?

You can’t really believe that. Without that distinction, the game wouldn’t exist, because there would be no rules, by definition.

It makes all the difference in the world whether player to player financial rewards were exchanged for

A) only legal plays — in which it’s FINE
or
B) some illegal plays — in which it’s NOT FINE

The whole morality of the situation turns on whether the hits that led to rewards were legal or illegal. Because the men signed up to take legal hits, but not illegal hits.

Stop confusing yourself.

Boomer talked a little about that this morning. He said that’s why the chop-block is against the rules, because it was the only way for offensive linemen to retaliate against dirty defensive players.

These players are all part of the same union and, yet, some players are apparently participating in a bounty program to take out players for…just one game? 2 games? An entire career? What is it? I just don’t know.

Then these same players will complain about the NFL failing to protect the players from unneccessary injuries and concussions.

It’s NOT ILLEGAL in football to knock a guy out of the game, or to try to do so.

Rather, guys are supposed to try to knock each other out of the game — within the rules — which is all that seems to have been going on with the Saints and almost certainly with every other team in the league.

No one — to my knowledge — is claiming that players were rewarded for those illegal plays. And players should be allowed to reward one another for big, legal, defensive plays, including those that knock a guy out of the game. Why? Because getting knocked out of the game, as in rugby, boxing, UFC, judo, etc., is part of it.

It’s always been part of it.

If the Saints were paying bonuses for unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, we’d have a problem, but that’s not the case!

The refs do a good enough job policing the game on the field, without need of dragging the league through the mud over a common practice that grown men have knowingly chosen to undertake together.

These sorts of witch hunts are just bad for the sport.

Players also make money via marketing…how do you determine what dollars were from the team..or from their own personal revenue streams…you can’t thus any additional payments made by players would have to be viewed as outside revenue not internal.

1. Fujita only played under Williams for one year and then left as a FA.

2. His standing among the union, the players, and the league is very high. The league likely brought him in knowing they would get a perspective on the situation that was relatively informed, but more importantly, one representative of the players in moving forward.

Remember, the league has to play a little CYA, while at the same time looking concerned about the players. The more they hammer those involved, the more culpable they become by admitting the existence and severity of these type of incentives.

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Well, shucks. Now I don’t know WHO to believe, Sharper or Fujita?

I still want to know if anyone paid a bounty to Jimmy Graham for taking out Payton’s knee last season.