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Redskins, Cowboys file grievance against NFL, NFLPA

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The Cowboys and Redskins have yet to officially go nuclear.  But the two teams have commenced the process of challenging the decision to strip $46 million in salary cap space from the two teams that treated the uncapped year as, well, an uncapped year.

A source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the Cowboys and Redskins have filed a formal grievance against the NFL, the NFL Management Council, and the NFL Players Association challenging the agreement to remove and redistribute cap space allocated to the Cowboys and Redskins in exchange for increasing the total salary cap for 2012 to $120.6 million per team.

Not many details currently are known about the grievance.  The other 30 teams will receive a full briefing this week, at the league meetings in Florida.

It’s currently believed that the grievance focuses on procedural defects, such as the failure to put the measure to a vote of league ownership or NFLPA leadership, without articulating the hot-button underlying argument that the Cowboys and Redskins are being punished for refusing to engage in illegal collusion in the year before the lockout began.

The grievance will be processed pursuant to the CBA, with a neutral arbitrator resolving the case.

The fact that the Cowboys and Redskins included the union in the grievance triggered the procedure that allows the teams to avoid a situation in which Commissioner Goodell resolves the matter.  Instead, a true outsider will determine whether the action complied with the terms and/or the spirit of the labor deal.

To the extent that the Cowboys and Redskins plan to allege that they were punished for refusing to collude, that’s an argument that possibly could be raised later, via a federal lawsuit.

UPDATE 1:25 p.m. ET:  The league contends that the arbitration will proceed under Article 15 of the CBA, which provides for “system arbitration” by Special Master Stephen Burbank and review by an Appeals Panel.

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120 Responses to “Redskins, Cowboys file grievance against NFL, NFLPA”
  1. wwwfella says: Mar 25, 2012 12:06 PM

    and so it begins……HAIL!!!

  2. kane337 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM

    The Cowboys and Redskins are an embarrassment. Greed, Greed, Greed!

  3. ravenator says: Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM

    Aww how cute, JJ and Snyder working together. NEWSFLASH! You are not above the rules. I can’t wait to watch the commish throw the book at these goons.

  4. channel124 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:12 PM

    Good.

  5. frankvzappa says: Mar 25, 2012 12:12 PM

    be careful boys, challenging blatant authoritarianism in this day and age can be dangerous…

  6. cup0pizza says: Mar 25, 2012 12:12 PM

    Hope Dallas/Washington are able to humiliate that nazi Goodell.

  7. downslide33 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:14 PM

    Jerry Jones has a point when he says how the NFL aproved the contracts during the uncapped year.

  8. richc111 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:15 PM

    Well well well, the Cowboy’s and Redskins’s. That doesn’t surprise me, of all the owners in the league to get in trouble. I wonder what the odds that it would have been those two knuckle heads. Maybe the NFL should take away the required 8 shots of Jerry Jones in his box they have every nationally televised game. That would hurt him more, in his ego.

  9. canetic says: Mar 25, 2012 12:15 PM

    There were no “rules” and that’s why they object to being punished for allegedly breaking rules that don’t exist. It was an uncapped year so they dumped salaries. The only rule they were breaking was the unwritten collusion between the owners.

  10. zo121179 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:19 PM

    The funny thing is that they pay all that $$$$ for no talent. As long as Jerry Jones and Dan Snider are owners they should allow them to spend as much as they want for nothing. Until they are replaced, both teams will falter.

  11. arm57romg says: Mar 25, 2012 12:23 PM

    FYI everyone. If you actually read the whole story and not just the headline you will see that the Teams included the NFLPA on the grievance so Goodell could not rule the grievance. It will be an outside source who will certainly rule in the teams’ favor due to the NFL approval of the contracts.

  12. steelernationsparksjealousy says: Mar 25, 2012 12:24 PM

    A “neutral” arbitrator

  13. uslim2nun says: Mar 25, 2012 12:29 PM

    canetic says: Mar 25, 2012 12:15 PM

    There were no “rules” and that’s why they object to being punished for allegedly breaking rules that don’t exist. It was an uncapped year so they dumped salaries. The only rule they were breaking was the unwritten collusion between the owners.

    Werd to ya motha !!!!!!!! Go get em Danny!!!! You cant mess with these guys in the court system either…they got way too much money

  14. keepitsimplestoopid says: Mar 25, 2012 12:29 PM

    I don’t see this ending well for the league office. Either the year was uncapped and there was no violation OR they were supposed to be colluding to keep salaries down artificially.

  15. deangelo1776 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:31 PM

    Really interested to see what happens in the next few weeks.

    Get your popcorn ready! It’s gonna get insane in the membrane!!

    Cypress Hill!!!

  16. bleedsoe9mm says: Mar 25, 2012 12:31 PM

    CHEATERS CHEAT!!!!!!!! redskins 178 mil cowboys 166 mil spent in a uncapped year , thats how they have as much cap space this year , its not fair to the other teams the didn’t try to cheat the system . the nfl did the right thing !

  17. poet92581 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:32 PM

    If the league admitted that the teams did nothing wrong, why do people keep suggesting they cheated? It’s not like they bought a championship. I also don’t get how they are”greedy” for wanting to pay or over pay players, a waste of money yes, but not greed. Greed is what Tampa did by hording money.

  18. CKL says: Mar 25, 2012 12:33 PM

    People can hate on Jones and Snyder all they want, and let’s face it at times both those men deserve hating on but not this time. It was very, very smart of them to include the NFLPA in this fight. I will always have a certain level of respect for any owner who is a self made success in business (like them), or even took a good background and made himself & his team more successful like the owner of my favorite team (Pats). I don’t get how people can call JJ and Snyder “greedy” then turn around and complain that they overspend on players though. That’s nonsense. Also there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GREEDY about having a skill for making money in business as long as it’s ethical. Hope you people calling them greedy call players who do the same thing greedy as well (and vice versa) but somehow I think not.

  19. kegowhisky says: Mar 25, 2012 12:33 PM

    Jerry and Danny-boy are far from the top of my owner totem-pole, but I hope they win this one hands down. The arrogance of the league here is despicable, and I hope they’re held accountable. Unless you’re under the age of fourteen, you can’t say something, then yell “Psyche” and reverse it all.

  20. pftbillsfan says: Mar 25, 2012 12:34 PM

    have to give the NFL credit, in no other league would you be able to financially hinder your two most marketable franchises. Imagine MLB docking the Yanks and BoSox the ability to spend equitably, would never happen. This is also happening right after a lockout, no wonder the NFL is king…unreal. I bet this ends ib a compromise where penalty is cut 50% but the message is clear, all franchises are equal…except the Bengals.

  21. cliffordc05 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:34 PM

    If the NFL had challenged the Cowboy and Redskin contracts in the uncapped year their only argument would have been that it violated an illegal agreement between the owners. It would have immediately triggered a federal anti-trust lawsuit against the league by the NFLPA. Jones knows this and uses the argument because there is no good answer. He just didn’t have the balls to tell the league or the other owners that he was going to do the ‘right thing’ a dump salary into the uncapped year. Jerry Jones is a saint. Of course hes is also a spineless sonofabitch.

  22. wdhart3 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:34 PM

    I love it!!

  23. ceschatz says: Mar 25, 2012 12:34 PM

    I love the cowboy haters that come in here and say that JJ is greedy and deserves the punishment fir breaking the rules. Please clarify those “rules” that were broken for us all who are actually educated on football.

  24. phillyphever says: Mar 25, 2012 12:37 PM

    This is one of those times I miss Taco Bill. We could really use a picture of Jerry and Danny as either Beavis and Butthead or Dumb and Dumber.

  25. eaglesnoles05 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:37 PM

    Until someone shows me otherwise, they have a point.

    I expect this grievance to illicit a response from the league that does, in fact, “show me otherwise,” though. If the “written rule” was silent on this, the league has to show that it was communicated to the teams that this was unacceptable- I’ve heard they did, but this case will bring the proof of that to light if there is any, and BOOM! – the skins and ‘boys are screwed, and I’m glad. Glad, glad GLAD.

  26. fafaflunky says: Mar 25, 2012 12:38 PM

    what rules..the ones the the other owners colluded in to squeeze out two of the biggest franchises in the nfl..i hope synder and jones prevail..
    didnt other teams technically break the rule by not having enough cap salary? i dont get it..the bears would peppers..maras on the board all b.s..

  27. jwreck says: Mar 25, 2012 12:38 PM

    ravenator says:
    Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM
    Aww how cute, JJ and Snyder working together. NEWSFLASH! You are not above the rules. I can’t wait to watch the commish throw the book at these goons.
    ______________
    Yeah, I hope he throws the book at them too. Maybe he could secretively dock them 36 million dollars in cap room the day before free agency starts.

  28. stricknineskinz says: Mar 25, 2012 12:41 PM

    bleedsoe9mm you are an idiot. They didnt cheat. They did exactly what the uncapped year allowed for. The teams that cheated were the one that spent well below what usually constituted the salary floor and then had a ton of money now. Thats the actual “competitive advantage”. The NFL punshed the Skins and Cowboys because they didnt collude to screw over the players. Read a full sentence before you post.

  29. jlinatl says: Mar 25, 2012 12:42 PM

    Is it collusion if the Commissioner says to the owners, “You can do whatever you want but understand that there will be a penalty for dumping contracts into the uncapped year”.

    It seems like it is going to come down to how it was communicated. It seems like they should have put it directly into the CBA but that probably would have been a sticking point.

  30. thraiderskin says: Mar 25, 2012 12:43 PM

    hahaha, the two most profitible franchises are about to take the NFL and the other 28 (excluding the Saints and Raiders) to the wood shed. You are about to get a lesson in business law and find out what it really means to be a successful money-maker.

  31. bhester1906 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:44 PM

    Damn some people make stupid comments. Ravenator they didn’t break the rules. There was no salary cap. Now did they find a loophole and use it to their advantage? Yep. But the owners decided as a group to opt out of the CBA. They knew they were opening themselves up to this possibility. Instead of negotiating under the last year they decided to opt out because player were making too much money. Decisions have consequences. It was either opt out and have no cap or stick with the cba and have the players get outrageous contracts for another year. They chose to opt out. You can’t opt out and then try to circumvent the consequences by saying don’t spend money like it is an uncapped year….Plus, the league approved the deals. How could you fine them for the same deals you approved?

  32. 84sgl says: Mar 25, 2012 12:46 PM

    LOL at the commenter’s that do not understand what not engaging in collusion means and proceeding to bash JJ and Snyder. Turn off the TV and internets and read a book! lol

  33. ncarolinarn7 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:52 PM

    I hear a few sound reasoned thinkers in here. Otherwise, I also see why our nation is in so much trouble. God have mercy.

  34. onebassplayer says: Mar 25, 2012 12:52 PM

    Should be interesting, we’ll see what happens!

  35. ubummer says: Mar 25, 2012 12:52 PM

    Snyder and Jones. Two short men constantly trying to prove to themselves that they aren’t small.

  36. thedizzypub says: Mar 25, 2012 12:52 PM

    If the salary cap in 2009 was $123 mill and the floor was $103 mill, Then in 2010 there was no cap. Explain to me how 7 teams went unpunished for spending below the floor to fill there pockets instead of having the so called competitive balance that the NFL wants?

  37. laserw says: Mar 25, 2012 12:53 PM

    I agree – time to put Heir Goodhell in his place and to stop the rule by decree that has become the NFL.

    The Redskins and Cowboys have every right to pursue this – and you haters – you still haven’t been able to produce the writing in ANY contract that shows where Washington and Dallas violated any provision. All you could produce are Goodhell’s words which carry the weight of a used tampax.

    I love that both teams are using the collusion aspect and that since they didn’t commit an illegal act, they were punished.

    Since each team is incompetently managed they had no competitive advantage as evidenced by their seasons in the first and second year after the action. The fact that the NFL waited two years also must play into this and the contracts were all approved by the league (their excuses are laughable). The redistribution of the salary cap is unprecedented and the punishments are capricious.

    The NFL has a bigger problem – does the memo of a commissioner and his interpretation of the rules trump the actual words of a dully ratified contract pursuant to all rules of the league? The actions of Goodhell were arbitrary and capricious and no volume of memos trumps the contract provisions. It could be stated with a high degree of certainty that 30 teams violated the contract provisions and Washington and Dallas were the only teams to actually follow the dully ratified labor contract!

  38. wheeln69 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:55 PM

    kane337 says:Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM

    The Cowboys and Redskins are an embarrassment. Greed, Greed, Greed!

    Really? How ignorant…Greed? Go back to watching Arena football you jackwagon. Greed is someone who has money and doesn’t spend but wants more and more. These two teams, although you would never know it by their won-lost records, have the highest payrolls in the NFL…So, tell me genius, where is the greed?

  39. cup0pizza says: Mar 25, 2012 12:57 PM

    ha 84sgl- VERY true!

  40. paulsmith107 says: Mar 25, 2012 12:58 PM

    So all I got to say is. Being a life long cowboy fan this will be the first and only time ever that I will root for the redskins to win anything but a giants game or eagles game. For the haters out there Jerry and Dan at least try to make the team better and fan base happy. I for one think those two are great owners and I hope they stick it to d-smith roger GODdell and the NFL forthis dirty underhanded garbage. If this were a big bank CEO f’ing over his employees you slimes would be wanting that ceo’s head on a platter but because it’s the redskins and cowboys everyone is good with it. This is why America sucks anymore because we allow people like GODdell and business like the NFL f people over blatantly all the time

  41. rickvaldez says: Mar 25, 2012 12:59 PM

    @ravenator

    I understand people in Baltimore are a little slow but what rules were broken? If there had been a rule the NFL wouldn’t have approved the contracts.

  42. erod22 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:02 PM

    Genius. They took Goodell out of the picture entirely as judge or jury, and now he’s a defendant who will be deposed and put on the stand to face questions about collusion.

  43. bleedsoe9mm says: Mar 25, 2012 1:03 PM

    @stricknineskinz , i would have loved the cba to be signed just before the start of the uncapped year , we would see how much redskins and cowboys fans would be defending those payrolls , if they had to cut half of there teams to get under the cap . the nfl warned teams 6 times there would be consequences for dumping salary in 20110 , so they would be under the cap when it returned . if jones and syder just took their punishment , i would have no problem with the redskins or the cowboys .

  44. wheeln69 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:04 PM

    ravenator says:Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM

    Aww how cute, JJ and Snyder working together. NEWSFLASH! You are not above the rules. I can’t wait to watch the commish throw the book at these goons.

    Ravenator, seriously, what “rules” were broken? The contracts, each and every one, were approved by the league…emphasis on each and every one. Oh, by the way, several others teams did the same thing…see Julius Peppers deal…Matt Ryan, I’ve also heard had his deal “reworked” that same year, why weren’t those teams penalized???

    If anything, they should be commended for not joining in on the collusion with the other owners.

  45. commonsensedude says: Mar 25, 2012 1:06 PM

    The NFL’s stance in a nutshell:

    “If there actually had been rules in existence at the time, the Washington Redskins and the Dallas Cowboys would have violated them. And we’re keeping our eyes on the Philadelphia Eagles. That’ll be $46 million dollars!

    We’re doing this to ensure fairness and competitive balance.

    Sincerely, the New York Giants … Oops! … The NFL”

  46. ravenator says: Mar 25, 2012 1:06 PM

    Redskins and Cowboys knew very well what they were doing was wrong. And if it wasn’t so wrong, why didn’t the other 30 NFL teams do this? I can assure you it wasn’t because they “weren’t smart”

    Stupid commenters who try and defend the actions of the wrongdoers are pitiful.

  47. clw1906 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:09 PM

    kane337 says:
    Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM
    The Cowboys and Redskins are an embarrassment. Greed, Greed, Greed!

    This my friends is an idiot. In actuality dummy they are fighting to spend more and invest in their franchises. The other owners and Goodell are fighting because they colluded in an attempt to keep salaries down.

  48. yojoemama says: Mar 25, 2012 1:11 PM

    Oh poor Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder, the two biggest spoiled brats. What’s the matter… can’t have your cake and eat it too? They thought they could pull a fast one in 2010 uncapped year and now they’re crying over their own spilled milk.

  49. cmarsh64 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:11 PM

    Both Jerry and Dan where smart they included the NFLPA in the grievance and now it WON’T be in the hands of Goodell…it will be an independent arbitraitor that will hear the case.
    This will be a clear will because the NFL has already said they didn’t violate any rules. Both team will have extra cash next year after the ruling and they both will use it.

  50. urfinished says: Mar 25, 2012 1:13 PM

    @ Dizzypub…that is going to be one of the best arguments for Danny and Jerry.
    Bengals, Bucs, and others spent less than the floor to get a competitive advantage for the following year and they went away unscathed.
    Both teams will get money back for the 2013 cap…so the penalties they received this year will likely be the total punishment.
    The timing of the penalty and Mara being the head of the competitive committee will also be huge hurdles for the defendants.

  51. usuallysneeringatyou says: Mar 25, 2012 1:17 PM

    It’s just another extension of political correctness: Established rules don’t apply unless the ‘in-charge’ thinkers want them to at the time. Actual fairness is not in play; the concept of fairness is just propaganda material.

  52. thingamajig says: Mar 25, 2012 1:18 PM

    Looks to me that these two losers might finally win something.

  53. mogul218 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:19 PM

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I love this!!!! HTTR!

  54. burgandyandgoldfan says: Mar 25, 2012 1:20 PM

    Strange bedfellows.

  55. worldwidebleater says: Mar 25, 2012 1:22 PM

    It’s not like the Skins went out and bought a bunch of high priced free agents. Allen and Shanahan were just trying to flush the last few floaters that Cerrato left in the bowl.

  56. bigdicebuddha says: Mar 25, 2012 1:25 PM

    Let the Cowboys and Redskins file lawsuits, and the Giants can just quietly keep winning championships.

    Snyder and Jones are right up there with the most unlikable owners in all of professional sports. They are stains, but they’ll never win anything, so LONG LIVE Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones!

  57. philwauke says: Mar 25, 2012 1:26 PM

    I don’t care for either team but in this case I hope they win. What rule was broken? Why aren’t the teams who didn’t spend any money get fined?

  58. killitandeatit says: Mar 25, 2012 1:27 PM

    This is like the mafia. There are rules, there are understandings ,there are :”this is how business is done”. Goodell is the God Father and you all know what happens when you cross the “family”. The owners have crafted a frame work , have set rules ,boundaries , and established a commissioner and league . This isn’t the I.R.S. where you exploit a loop hole and screw all the other owners.The NFL will stand for “not for long ” if every owner wants to manipulate the rules and throw parity out the window. I’m sure ,somewhere, Al Davis is laughing.

  59. wethog66 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:32 PM

    @bigdicebuddha

    The tool minority owner of the Giants that ran his drunk mouth immediately after the SB, and during the parade, is pretty un-likeable IMO.

    As for the Giants quietly winning SB’s, well congrats, but it was LiL Danny’s Skins that kicked the Giants butt not once, but twice, last year. Based on your logic that would put a little cloud over the Giants most recent SB win.

  60. fafaflunky says: Mar 25, 2012 1:34 PM

    what does tebow say about this?

  61. usuallysneeringatyou says: Mar 25, 2012 1:35 PM

    So. The NFL – league, owners, and players – is just a playground ‘club’, making up and changing rules in order to ‘get’ whoever they don’t like, and to get rid of them from the ‘cool’ group. (Well — sounds like modern-day “reality gameshows”, doesn’t it.)
    Geez. Really nothing around anymore, to invest honest — honest — enjoyment in.

  62. saintsfan1111 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:35 PM

    Special Master is a cool title.

  63. bluntsmokinskinsfan says: Mar 25, 2012 1:37 PM

    @kane337

    Your an idiot. There were no rules. Uncapped year. Say it with me… Uncapped. The NFL approved the contracts. There was clear collusion. Is it stupid to file a grievance or sue your partners? Yea, maybe it is. But the skins and cowboys are right to do so. And I think we can both agree that anything that makes Goodell look bad is old. He is ruining the game.

  64. yogikenobi says: Mar 25, 2012 1:37 PM

    For my own amusement I will pretend that James Harrison has co-signed the grievance.

  65. londonbengal says: Mar 25, 2012 1:38 PM

    Waiting for Commish; (Hammer of God) dell to sanction the ultimate punishment for the Cowboys and Redskins; no prime time TV games.

    Jones and Snyder will be mortified……

  66. nfl1818 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:40 PM

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/19/team-by-team-salary-cap-numbers-if-there-were-a-salary-cap/

  67. cmarsh64 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:43 PM

    Lets remember that next year all teams must spend 90% of the cap dollars so the teams hoarding money like the Bengals,Tampa,K.C. Vikings and all the rest that have an extra 20 mil or more sitting around won’t apply next year. If the rule would be this year all teams would have to spend 108 mil of the 120 mil cap this year and it goes up too 95% before it ends. In 2014 when the NEW TV contracts get approved you’ll see a hugs increase in the cap as we know it.

  68. hollywoodeggers says: Mar 25, 2012 1:44 PM

    thingamajig and bigdicebuddha: just saying for the record, jerry jones has won 3 super bowls as the owner of the cowboys during his tenure.

    bleedsoe9mm says:
    Mar 25, 2012 12:31 PM
    CHEATERS CHEAT!!!!!!!! redskins 178 mil cowboys 166 mil spent in a uncapped year , thats how they have as much cap space this year , its not fair to the other teams the didn’t try to cheat the system . the nfl did the right thing !

    with this argument, it shouldnt be fair that the skins and boys have to share their revenue with other teams. as someone said earlier, without the revenue sharing these teams would be the red sox and the yankees of the nfl. they would have the best teams player wise bar none every year. although that doesn’t always translate to championships, imagine the cowboys basically having an allpro at every position then playing seriously not like in the pro bowl. no other teams would have a chance, unless their owners put their own money into it, then the seahawks would be the best team in the nfl…

  69. jsrdc says: Mar 25, 2012 1:47 PM

    killitandeatit, Excuse me, but what “rule” was manipulated? NO rules were broken or violated, yet two teams are being punished by 28 others, and DeMaurice Smith wasn’t going to even think about not supporting the 28 owners who kicked and screamed about it because he was up for re-election as the head of the NFLPA. Now that he has been re-elected for another 3 years, his job is safe, and he stands to lose NOTHING. A serious political (yet petty and gutless) maneuver on his part.

    This is all political BS, and there is no such thing as a luxury tax in the NFL – until recently. Goodell AND DeMaurice Smith should BOTH be ashamed of themselves for instituting this type of crap RIGHT BEFORE FA began. The timing and politics are both nauseating.

    As for you, kane337, “The Cowboys and Redskins are an embarrassment. Greed, Greed, Greed!” – are you seriously off your rocker? It is the OTHER 28 teams being greedy here. You have those 28 owners who chose NOT to spend more in an UNCAPPED year, and now THEY are the ones crying and complaining about wanting more cap space for 2012, which would not have happened for them if the Cowboys and Redskins were not penalized retroactively for what happened years ago, and for contracts the league approved.

    If you don’t want to spend more in an uncapped year as an NFL owner, fine, but don’t kick and scream to retroactively penalize two teams who did when NO rules were broken. The NFL has already admitted neither team did anything wrong, yet they are levying punishment anyway.

    Any moron who thinks either team broke any rules needs to have their head examined.

  70. axespray says: Mar 25, 2012 1:48 PM

    There isn’t a law/official rule that I can’t throw a stranger’s laptop in an oven, but if I’m warned SIX TIMES not to do it, then do it anyway, then act all shocked that I got punched by the owner of that laptop, should I sue and throw a tantrum?

  71. andyreiddoublecheeseburger says: Mar 25, 2012 1:51 PM

    Sick of this story-sick of these 2 twits-sick of their fans

  72. jsrdc says: Mar 25, 2012 1:55 PM

    bigdicebuddha, yes the Giants have won two SB’s in the past 5 years, but your likelihood of doing it again anytime soon is minimal. It always takes a perfect storm, and the Giants aren’t going to have the hunger this season – look at what happened to them after the 2007 SB as defending SB champs – one and done in the playoffs. You can expect the same this year.

    You don’t have to like Snyder or Jones (and I am sure you are a hater of both teams as a Giant fan) but this isn’t a popularity contest. The point is winning games and Super Bowls, not winning the popularity vote.

    The Giants are a solid team, but still trail the Cowboys in overall SB wins, thank you very much. A winning legacy is the only thing you have at the beginning of every season, when ALL teams are on a level playing field, and start at 0-0 for the season.

    Time will tell for this season, but I fully expect the Cowboys (regardless of this ridiculous cap reduction) to draft very well, and be extremely competitive in the NFC as well as the playoffs this year. They have had a very nice FA period thus far, and will also draft very solid, just like they did last year.

  73. wethog66 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:56 PM

    @andyreiddoublecheeseburger

    But you are not sick of Andy Reid and his obvious overratedness?

    Is overratedness even a word? Doesn’t matter, even Philly fans should understand what I am trying to say.

  74. jsrdc says: Mar 25, 2012 1:57 PM

    andyreiddoublecheeseburger,

    What you are really sick of is zero SB rings for the Eagles. Have fun with more of the same this year.

  75. rdsknfan81 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:59 PM

    Huge Skins fan…I don’t think either team would look for immediate resolution if they had been able to spear it over 4 or 5 years. this was supposed to be a big FA year for them and there legs were ripped from them right at the start line. RGIII or Luck both would need roster adjustments to be as successful as everyone expects them to be. Especially since we are talking about the Skins. HTTR

  76. thaiphoon1969 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:59 PM

    bleedsoe9mm says: Mar 25, 2012 1:03 PM

    @stricknineskinz , i would have loved the cba to be signed just before the start of the uncapped year , we would see how much redskins and cowboys fans would be defending those payrolls , if they had to cut half of there teams to get under the cap . the nfl warned teams 6 times there would be consequences for dumping salary in 20110 , so they would be under the cap when it returned . if jones and syder just took their punishment , i would have no problem with the redskins or the cowboys .
    ==========================

    But it wasn’t! The Redskins (in particular) had those contracts done (with the voidable year) PRIOR to the end of the CBA. They were taking a big risk that there would be a salary cap that year. Since there was not, the reaped the reward of that risk. Nothing any of the other owners would not have done if they had the cash or balls. As for the warning, there was NO rule that the warning referred to. Only a warning to get in line and collude with the other 28 owners and keep salaries down. 7 teams didn’t spend up to the minimum of the salary floor because they crafted contracts that would benefit them in the uncapped year and in the new CBA. The Redskins/Cowboys are accused of screwing up competitive balance beyond 2010 with their actions in THREE contracts that year. Meanwhile Tampa Bay spends under the cap floor for YEARS and then all of a sudden has gobs of money to spend in FA now. So much for screwing up “competitive balance”. Chicago signs Peppers to a deal and dumps most of the money into 2010. Other teams did the same thing with their contracts by dumping alot of the money into uncapped years so they could have more money in the new CBA. Furthermore, the new CBA did NOT take into account the 2010 year spending, otherwise Chicago would also be screwed. So lets see…

    The Redskins and Cowboys did nothing wrong in treating an uncapped year as an uncapped year.

    Other teams ALSO dumped money into that uncapped year.

    Other teams spent UNDER the cap floor and “miraculously” have cap money to spend now (ask yourself why TB all of a sudden has the money to pay VJax)

    The ruling was NOT handed down by the other 28 teams, it was handed down by the NFL Management Council Executive Committee. The Chair has the last name of MARA.

    All that said, its no surprise why the 2 teams to get cap space penalties are in the same division as MARA.

  77. jptrump00 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:00 PM

    the uncapped year was negotiated between the owners and players as an incentive for each to come to an agreement before the CBA expired. If the owners didn’t want to teams to take advantage of the uncapped year, they should have reached an agreement earlier. Its pathetic the players went along with the penalties, which is basically the owners admitting collusion…NFLPA are truly the owners biatches and they are a disgrace to unions!

  78. fullbagg says: Mar 25, 2012 2:05 PM

    What amazes me is how; let me say, uneducated detractors of the Redskins and Cowboys are. Greedy? The NFL purposely did not spend that year to have the average cap number low.

    Greedy? How about all the teams who realized there was NO CAP FLOOR??? DUH!!!!!!!

    Greedy? How about a labor Union accepting this? What the heck was the fight for? Oh yeah! They had to agree to this BEFORE THE LOCKOUT ENDED!!

    I have paided to go to Redskin games. What about all the fans who pay and taxpayers who pay for these benevolent owners stadiums and they purposely go on the cheap, pocket the $$!!

    Yeah. At least lil Danny boy and Plastic face pay the players!

  79. thaiphoon1969 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:05 PM

    axespray says: Mar 25, 2012 1:48 PM

    There isn’t a law/official rule that I can’t throw a stranger’s laptop in an oven, but if I’m warned SIX TIMES not to do it, then do it anyway, then act all shocked that I got punched by the owner of that laptop, should I sue and throw a tantrum?

    ===================

    Ever heard of destruction of property? Yeah…that’s a LAW that says you cannot throw a stranger’s laptop into an oven.

    The warnings were NOT given to highlight a written rule. If they were, then the NFL has a case. The warnings were to highlight the collusion of the NFL owners and have the teams abide by it.

    And yes, you shouldn’t get mad that the owner of the laptop punched you. Just like you shouldn’t get mad that the Redskins/Cowboys are filing the grievance. They did nothing wrong (the rest of the league did) and they are being made to take punishment.

  80. dirtmcgirt24 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:06 PM

    bluntsmokinskinsfan says

    Your an idiot.

    —–

    Well done.

  81. hail74 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:06 PM

    For those wondering why all teams didn’t dump payroll also the reason is simple. Most owners are to cheap. To accelerate the contract requires cash up front and the only benefit is to gain cap room to spend more money later. So why would an owner, say Paul brown, who has no intention of spending as much as possible give money now so that when the cap floor kicks in he will have to spend even more.

  82. suprsquirrel says: Mar 25, 2012 2:09 PM

    I think what Jerry Jones and a lot of the posters here are ‘forgetting’ is that the league told these two teams REPEATEDLY not to dump salaries into the uncapped year….and, guess what…they did it anyway.

    Blame the league for approving the contracts all you want. You look at it like the league giving an ‘ok’ to this behavior, I look at it more like a parent that will drop the hammer even harder because they told you repeatedly not to do something and you did it anyway. Kind of a ‘don’t stay out past midnight’ type of thing, and then when the kid does you punish him at a later date.

    Like I said, they were warned, they did it anyway. I can understand why the league would be upset when two owners flat out defied what the league was telling them NOT to do.

  83. patswhatsup says: Mar 25, 2012 2:10 PM

    So let me get this straight…

    The redskins and cowboys did NOT break any rules….

    But they “created a competitive imbalance”….

    Still sucked balls for those years….

    Now being punished….

    Lame…

  84. dirtmcgirt24 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:11 PM

    jsrdc says:
    Mar 25, 2012 1:55 PM

    The Giants are a solid team, but still trail the Cowboys in overall SB wins, thank you very much. A winning legacy is the only thing you have at the beginning of every season, when ALL teams are on a level playing field, and start at 0-0 for the season.

    ——-

    In the real world, outside of Arlington, people speak of an NFL that began before they had a formal name for their championship 46 years ago. And in that real world, the Giants have been league champions 8 times. Not the most, but not less than your Cowboys.

  85. nemesder says: Mar 25, 2012 2:14 PM

    I really hope the skins get their cap space back so they can resign Fletcher, I dont think he could help any team as much as he’d be able to help the skins this coming year

  86. kbv510 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:15 PM

    axespray says: Mar 25, 2012 1:48 PM

    There isn’t a law/official rule that I can’t throw a stranger’s laptop in an oven, but if I’m warned SIX TIMES not to do it, then do it anyway, then act all shocked that I got punched by the owner of that laptop, should I sue and throw a tantrum?

    There is. It’s called trespassing and destruction of private property dumbass.

  87. killitandeatit says: Mar 25, 2012 2:15 PM

    I don’t know maybe there is a specific rule that states :”you can’t give a player cash” . So Jerry puts the $$$ in a large bag and tells the player to take this “trash” out but be sure to check it out before tossing it and don’t look at it until I’m gone. And:” thanks for taking that pay cut”. See ! no specific rules have been broken ! Al Davis would tell you that you can fight the league but beware of the “tuck” rule and enjoy being the most penalized team in the NFL from now on Cowboys/Redskins. My final point:make life difficult for the other 30 owners and see how it goes with future deals,trades,and any issue you have a problem with.

  88. skinsgame says: Mar 25, 2012 2:16 PM

    This entire ugly mess is going to alter the league permanently if it doesn’t go away soon. I can’t believe the justice dept isn’t already investigating. It’s dirty. It seems to me there are too many teams in the league by about 6. The Skins and Cowgals are subsidizing the other “poor” teams but this little fiasco is going to undo the “poor” owners in the long run. Don’t bite the hands that feed you. Cowgals or not, if the Skins fight this, it could turn the apple cart upside down on a whole lot of teams.

  89. cowboyhater says: Mar 25, 2012 2:17 PM

    kane337 says:Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM

    The Cowboys and Redskins are an embarrassment. Greed, Greed, Greed!

    ————————————————————————————————-

    Their greed is what keeps this league afloat. It’s funny about the fans of the other teams in the league that continue to hate the two owners that treat their franchise as a business, and not a hobby. Due to their incredible business acumen, they keep the small market teams afloat with the revenue sharing based off the profitability of their organizations. It’s time for the other owners to recognize this fact, and come to a compromise.

  90. joebagadonuts says: Mar 25, 2012 2:23 PM

    axespray says:
    Mar 25, 2012 1:48 PM
    There isn’t a law/official rule that I can’t throw a stranger’s laptop in an oven, but if I’m warned SIX TIMES not to do it, then do it anyway, then act all shocked that I got punched by the owner of that laptop, should I sue and throw a tantrum?

    ————————

    Um, actually, there is a law against throwing a stranger’s laptop in an oven. It’s called destruction of property, and it’ll get you thrown in jail. In this case, the Redskins and Cowboys were warned six times that if they DIDN’T participate in an illegal act (collusion), they would be punished. So your analogy fails.

  91. skin94249 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:26 PM

    Well the Raiders, Saints, Redskins and Cowboys all did the same thing. They happen to be the teams with the deepest pockets and are the ones willing to spend.

  92. stricknineskinz says: Mar 25, 2012 2:28 PM

    @bleedsoe9mm You still arent seeing the big picture. The other owners colluded plain and simple. They decided to use the uncapped year to screw the players. The Skins and Cowboys did not. That is why they are being punished. The NFL needed to raise the Salary Cap in a hurry and Goddell or whoever decided that to kill 2 birds with one stone he could raise the salary cap and appease the other colluding owners by taking $ for the cap from the Skins and Cowboys. D Smith agreed so as to save his job and face. Thats it. Dont hate because your team doesnt know how to operate the cap as well as the Skins and Cowboys.

  93. orakpownd says: Mar 25, 2012 2:37 PM

    @andyreiddoublecheeseburger

    Its because its the Skins and the Boys. No matter what the record…were always relevant.

    PS. I bet that trophy case is easy to clean.

  94. tmkelley1 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:42 PM

    Well, ravenator, the votes are in, and you lose. Congratulations for winning the moron contest.

  95. ssingh85 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:47 PM

    Collusion is illegal and the NFL shouldn’t be above the law!! Good that the Skins and Boys aren’t scared to take on the league.

  96. skins1313 says: Mar 25, 2012 2:49 PM

    Love it! And so it begins! The enemy of my enemy is my friend! How ironic. Man a lot of hate on here. Just like a certain owner from NY pulled this BS in first place. How do the players feel. Remember them? Look at FA. Yeah a couple of big names came off the board with nice contracts. But out of top 100 a lot are unsinged. Why? Cause teams are waiting them out so they can low ball the contracts. How smart of these teams to include the NFLPA because the players will want a settlement, because they know the teams with $$$ and cap space aren’t even using it. Glad we almost lost football for a year for this nonsense. I don’t care who you root for, this leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouth.

  97. redskinsrt says: Mar 25, 2012 2:57 PM

    Love or hate the two teams they pile plenty of money into the league’s collective pot. I bet it is the Republicans complaining about us “cheating” but we are getting taxed more too. So be glad that our owners are “greedy” and not afraid to throw a few dollars out there.

    Anyone with half a brain knew that a salary cap was coming back so it isn’t like they were getting away with murder by dumping the salaries of two underperformers. Oh and by the way Snyder and co. for yet another year will not be raising ticket prices, even after removing seats. How do you like them apples?

  98. bleedsoe9mm says: Mar 25, 2012 2:58 PM

    @bleedsoe9mm Of course they colluded that how they got a new cba signed , but that is a separate issue . bob kraft left his wifes death bed to save the nfl , and jerry jones is willing to blow it up for 5mill dollars in cap space (nfl did them a favor by letting them spread out the punishment over 2 seasons) . lets not saint jones and synder for not taking part , they thought they could get away with cheating the system and in the end they just might .

  99. 70chip says: Mar 25, 2012 2:59 PM

    As a skins fan I can’t believe I’m saying this but Dan And jurah both have my full support. The redskins and cowboys dumped money into an uncapped yr. they stepped outside the gentlemans agreement to do that. This wouldn’t as big of an issue if went to some type of vote,
    Or like previous poster suggested the teams to be allowed to spread the penalty over 3 to 5 yrs. Oh let’s not forget Godell waited to last minute the dole out the cap hits . The nfl approved the contacts , the nfl admitted the skins and boys followed procedures and did nothing wrong.

    This whole $@”&in thing sets a horrible precedence
    And proves there’s no consistency to Godells punishments .
    Stiller fans can attest to that. There needs to be consistency
    To Godells fines and penalties .

    This goes way beyond banning inzone celebrations.
    Buffalo, Denver Baltimore and every other franchise might be next victim of unfair fines and penalties

  100. truthassassin says: Mar 25, 2012 3:09 PM

    All you haters have to stop being bias and think for a moment… These are the two wealthiest franchises in the NFL, so OF COURSE they took advantage of an UNCAPPED year… thus, no matter how unfair others may think it is that they decided to actually spend in an uncapped year (hmmm, why would they do that??!) they broke no rules and penalizing them sets a dangerous precedent of being able to penalize teams for not breaking rules just b/c other later decide they’re upset about what happened.

    They do not deserve to be penalized and, personally, I hope they get all their money back. THAT would be FAIR.

  101. rickc402 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:13 PM

    The Redskins and Cowboys should win this….in 2009 the cap was 123 Million and had gone up about 7 million per year. So if a GM and Owner assumed that the cap for the “uncapped” year was 130 million, that means that 11 other team over spent. If the cap was to stay at 123 million which is what the NFL maintains, then 16 teams violated the cap not 2 and one of those teams was the Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers who spent 135.3 million in the “Uncapped” year, Saints, Vikings, Seahawks, Jets, Raiders, Colts, Bears, Eagles, Patriots, Giants, 49ers, Dolphins and Texans. Please note that Patriots, Giants, Colts, Packers, and Saints are all listed recent winners of the Super Bowl, while the Redskins and Cowboys were not even in the playoffs in 2009, 2010 or 2011. The NFL claims competative balance….yeah right more like politics.
    Hail to the Redskins!

  102. kingjeremi84 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:21 PM

    big dice buddah, jones has alredy won 3 superbowls .idiot

  103. steelpalace302 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:23 PM

    It doesnt matter how many times it has been explained on this site that the Cowboys and Redskins have done nothing wrong you will always have people like the ravenator as well as many others who just hate the teams inolved and will refuse to understand what is really happening here. The FACT of the matter is the COWBOYS and REDSKINS are the ones who did not cheat and what the other teams did is ELEGAL. and if you want to see more so called dumping go look at Julius Peppers contract for 2010 with th bears 34 mil for one yr with a 20 mil base salary and the next yr a 900 thousand base.

  104. ravenator says: Mar 25, 2012 3:24 PM

    I wonder if the Cowboys or Redskins make the playoffs? Wait, they’ve been so successful in the past right? Silly fans, your owners are the worst in the league.

  105. steelpalace302 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:29 PM

    Peppers signed a 84 mil contract in 2010 with the bears.

    He was pd

    Base-20 mil
    Bonus-1.08 mil
    Mis Bonus- 13.85 mil

    Of a 84 mil contract he was pd 34 in one season and his cap hit for the 2010 yr would have been close to 40 mil if there was a cap

    2011 His base salary dropped from 20 mil to 900 thousand and his cap hit was 11 mil. 2012 cap hit 13 mil
    seems like dumping to me.

  106. captaintriumph says: Mar 25, 2012 3:31 PM

    Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder are scum. Cheating, taking advantage, then using the courts to try to get away with it on “procedural defects”. What a couple of scumbags! Obviously most of the comments are in favor of this, since Cowboys and Redskins fans have a big interest in this and are making the most comments. Notice how nobody, NOBODY, is saying that what they did was right. EVERYBODY knows they are trying to get away with a totally unfair advantage. The argument is just that it technically wasn’t illegal, Goodell is a Nazi, yada yada. What a couple of scumbags!!

  107. marcinhouston says: Mar 25, 2012 3:32 PM

    The Redskins better be careful. Roger Gooddell might pick up a copy of the Washington Post and find evidence that they had the same bounty program as the Saints.

  108. steelpalace302 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:38 PM

    And for all you people who say they are the ones who cheated stay tuned. You are about to see just who is wrong.

  109. mattw70 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:42 PM

    People keep saying,they were warned 6 times not to do it.

    I’ve looked around and all I can find is 1 article saying this and it’s an unnamed source.

    So, the warnings not to break a rule,that doesn’t exist…isn’t a fact…yet.

  110. captaintriumph says: Mar 25, 2012 3:42 PM

    And I can’t stand the stupid argument from Cowboys and Redskins fans that their teams just didn’t participate in an “illegal collusion” like the rest of the league, so they shouldn’t be punished. What a stupid, lame argument. We have a salary cap, period. Having a salary cap and rules is NOT illegal collusion. It’s called making things fair – it’s still supposed to be a game! Though sometimes I wonder if it can possibly last when you have cheating scumbags like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder trying to ruin it.

  111. stopdk12 says: Mar 25, 2012 3:50 PM

    fools…skins and boys weren’t the greedy ones, they are the ones spreading the wealth and driving up the salary cap and helping the players…that’s why they are being punished by the other owners. this “upsetting a competitive imbalance” is totally BS. ALL THE OTHER OWNERS could have done the same thing, the rules were the same for everyone. so i don’t see how that argument can hold any water once an arbitrator looks at it.

    i wonder if the league will now have to punish the other owners who screwed their fans and didn’t spend the money to field a competitive team… you see this goes both way. there were a lot of teams that were nowhere near the cap…what’s their punishment? why is it that so few players signed offer sheets with new teams? only one player signed a restricted offer and switched teams last year…one! that’s ridiculous! what more proof is there that there was an agreement between the owners to hurt the players?

    fact is, the owners were in cohoots with one another not to drive up the salary pool. that is why there was actually going to be a decrease in the amount of money given to the players…down to $115 mil…no wonder the NFLPA voted for the penalty. i would have loved to have heard what antonio cromatie said when they told him he was making less money…after they held up the season…

  112. jwreck says: Mar 25, 2012 4:23 PM

    ravenator says:
    Mar 25, 2012 12:08 PM
    Aww how cute, JJ and Snyder working together. NEWSFLASH! You are not above the rules. I can’t wait to watch the commish throw the book at these goons.
    _________________________
    Bro, the book has been thrown. To the tune of 36 million dollars. Now Jones and Snyder are griping about it, and you “can’t wait to watch” Goodell, who shouldn’t even be involved in this process, by the way, to throw the book at them again, for complaining? What should he do, expel both teams from the NFL? Reduce their cap room to $12.50? Do you really want the two most profitable franchises in the NFL crippled? Who are you? Do you hate football?

  113. penz84 says: Mar 25, 2012 4:34 PM

    The Redskins and Cowboys going into battle side by side,who’d have thought it! I’ve always despised the cowboys,but if it means we get justice after this travesty then I’m happy to have them as allies,for now. At the end of the day no rules were broken,and all the contracts were certified by the league. Its funny how the two biggest franchises were singled out for punishment,and right on the eve of FA,coincidence? And I see Mr Mara has said we were lucky not to lose draft picks as well,only got one thing to say to that …..F#CK YOU!

  114. bryans49ers says: Mar 25, 2012 5:07 PM

    The league office approved the contacts, so why did they sanction these teams? Answer: Roger Goodell has not done his job. The left hand has no idea what right hand is doing. We had a lockout, now bounties, this mess with cowboys and Redskins, looming lawsuit against the NFL and its network for slander against one of its own players, another potential owner player fight over revenue share is coming, lawsuits being filed by former players for concussions , with is bs, and a government inquiry into the bounties.. Time to let Goodell go. The league is loosing credibility on slot of different fronts. Someone has to be held accountable

  115. redskinsrt says: Mar 25, 2012 5:36 PM

    Mar 25, 2012 1:48 PM

    There isn’t a law/official rule that I can’t throw a stranger’s laptop in an oven, but if I’m warned SIX TIMES not to do it, then do it anyway, then act all shocked that I got punched by the owner of that laptop, should I sue and throw a tantrum?

    —————————–

    Stranger’s? So you stole it? In an oven? Is it on? Destruction of property?

    You’re right.. no law about that.

  116. rtk23 says: Mar 25, 2012 6:25 PM

    “Aww how cute, JJ and Snyder working together. NEWSFLASH! You are not above the rules. I can’t wait to watch the commish throw the book at these goons.”

     Ravenator obviously can’t read.

  117. thaiphoon1969 says: Mar 25, 2012 7:22 PM

    captaintriumph says: Mar 25, 2012 3:42 PM

    And I can’t stand the stupid argument from Cowboys and Redskins fans that their teams just didn’t participate in an “illegal collusion” like the rest of the league, so they shouldn’t be punished. What a stupid, lame argument. We have a salary cap, period. Having a salary cap and rules is NOT illegal collusion. It’s called making things fair – it’s still supposed to be a game! Though sometimes I wonder if it can possibly last when you have cheating scumbags like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder trying to ruin it.

    =========

    You might have had a point… MIGHT…

    If there had been a SALARY CAP IN 2010.

    Since there was NOT one, you wasted all that time it took to write your comment.

  118. wheeln69 says: Mar 25, 2012 8:25 PM

    @captaintriumph the person who promoted you to captain wants to retract that promotion…he bases it on your stupidity….lmao!!!!

    He also says he cannot even justify a private…furthermore, he also wants to abide by the golden rule while posting….make ONE stupid comment and let everyone think your stupid and don’t post another and prove them right!

  119. obxfannings says: Mar 25, 2012 10:54 PM

    It astounds me to read the comments by fans claiming my Skins and the Dallas Cowboys were cheating when the league office has already proclaimed that they broke no rules and, in fact, approved the contracts for which they were penalized. The uncapped year was a provision insisted upon by the players union to make a lockout (which we all loved so much) and restrictions on free agency so financially hurtful that neither party would exercise that option. The OWNERS did just that and opened the door to the uncapped year. Now, in retrospect, it is time for the colluding parties to exact their revenge on the owners with business savvy. It is no coincidence that these two teams are the most successful FINANCIALLY of all the NFL teams. Instead of questioning these teams’ motives in actually SPENDING MONEY, perhaps you haters should question the motives of the owners of Tampa, Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Kansas City and Seattle. These owners, most among the NFL’s richest personally, take the profits gained off of revenue sharing between the entire NFL and simply pocket that profit, keeping their salaries low and not fielding a competitive product. While my team and the Cowboys make make plenty of mistakes in acquiring players, I am very proud that my owner at least TRIES TO WIN and spends all the cash he can to improve the team. If I’m a fan of one of the above mentioned teams with their greedy owners and crappy teams, I am wondering where my money actually goes.
    I hope this totally kills revenue sharing in the NFL, Wellington Mara’s gift to the NFL. It would serve his smug son right.

  120. rg3isvictory says: Mar 27, 2012 11:10 AM

    @ravenator-

    I enjoy seeing your comments because it reminds me why I avoid going near Baltimore, Pasadena Glen Burnie or most places north of those horrid locations. You are a great example of the intelligence deficiency in that region. I’m amazed how vastly lower the average IQ is from Annapolis to Baltimore. Not to say all Baltimore fans are ninnies as I have much respect for the Wavens owner but I’m always how limited the fans seem to be. Thanks for confirming this Wavenator!

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