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Appeals may focus on disconnect between bounties, on-field actions

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The NFL’s internal dispute resolution system carries with it an added benefit, above and beyond the fact that the Commissioner gets to make the decision and then determine whether he made the right decision:  The in-house appeal process keeps most of the arguments and facts out of the public eye.

In contrast to courtroom proceedings, which are subject to full public exposure, the only way we’ll know anything about anything that happens during the Saints’ bounty appeals is if someone leaks something.

Here’s a little something that has leaked in advance of the hearings.

According to a source with knowledge of the situation, the appeals may consist of arguments based on the fundamental difference between the placement of “bounties” on players and the actual infliction of injury.  If, in other words, the offer of cash for a “cart-off” didn’t actually result in a player being carted off, the situation arguably becomes a case of intent without a crime.

Then there’s the possibility that, as it relates to the infliction of injuries, the bounty concept was more hyperbole than reality, with the promise of payments for knocking offensive players out of the game simply a device for getting the defensive players properly motivated to play with reckless abandon and appropriate zeal, different in form but no different in substance from the many other ways that teams get players fired up before games.

Also, one or more of the appeals could focus on the unexplored question of whether other teams did the same or similar things, and thus whether it’s objectively fair to nail the Saints simply because, more than two years after the league investigated the situation and got nowhere, a whistleblower blew the case open.  Nailing the Saints for something that other teams quite possibly have been doing, but that the NFL hasn’t fully investigated, could be painted as inequitable.

Moreover, there’s an unwillingness to accept without scrutiny the work of NFL Security, which somehow was duped by the Saints in 2010, and which otherwise was unable to catch the Saints without the help of a whistleblower.  The raw data generated by NFL Security undoubtedly will be studied and picked apart and, wherever justified, attacked as flawed.

In the end, it may not matter, given that the same office that imposed the penalties is reviewing them.  At this point, any softening of the penalties will create the impression that the league has decided to tolerate bounties.

So while it may not be fair for the Saints to be the scapegoats, the league has little choice.  And the league will undoubtedly justify the punishment based on the fact that the Saints lied about the existence of the bounty system in 2009 — and that the Saints continued to brazenly use bounties for two seasons after the league investigated the situation.

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77 Responses to “Appeals may focus on disconnect between bounties, on-field actions”
  1. talkintrashallday says: Apr 1, 2012 10:53 PM

    MAN UP Saints – just take the damn punishment already! sheesh!

  2. twodat says: Apr 1, 2012 10:59 PM

    Earth to NFL!!

  3. robf2010 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:02 PM

    “So while it may not be fair for the Saints to be the scapegoats”

    You’re just now admitting this? Speaking of hyperbole, “cash for crippling” sound familiar? They broke the rules, hid it from officials, and the worst part, they ignored the commissioner. Slice it any way you want, no way does it add up to all of the punishment handed down. This was personal to the commissioner. No doubt about it.

  4. pftcensorssuck says: Apr 1, 2012 11:04 PM

    This article overlooks one important factor in the reasons behind this punishment.

    The LYING about the existance of the “bounty” program.

  5. jason1980 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:05 PM

    That is probably the saddest indictment of the NFL I have ever heard. Since the league office can’t prove it’s case, to save face, it’s gonna make the New Orleans Saints the sacrificial lambs. That is reprehensible on so many levels. Keep bringing us these reports Mike, it gets better for the Saints by the minute.

  6. tolan04 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:06 PM

    How many headlines do we need about this? It’s getting so old.

  7. sportmentary says: Apr 1, 2012 11:07 PM

    I thought the cheating Aints accepted responsibility. I hate that organization more and more as each second goes by.

  8. miamisaint3255 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:09 PM

    Look at that saints defender sacking eli really hard! If they were not sacking and tackling so hard, no way the Saints would have beat the Giants. They would not have been up by over 30 points in that game without the unfair hard hitting. BountyGate!!

  9. beastup22 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:09 PM

    You finally start to keep it real. This is a big publicity stunt. Fire Goodell!!!

  10. stevenfbrackett says: Apr 1, 2012 11:09 PM

    That argument is the same as saying, “I was aiming at the guy in the black shirt. That doesn’t make me guilty of killing the guy in the white shirt. It just means I missed my target.”

  11. staffordsyear says: Apr 1, 2012 11:09 PM

    Oh cmon!

  12. cdkreb says: Apr 1, 2012 11:10 PM

    Tell that to Brett Favre and Kurt Warner.

  13. eastsideballa says: Apr 1, 2012 11:12 PM

    This is still not nearly as bad as spygate, bounties do not hurt the integrity of the game, but spygate did. And for anyone to believe that bounties didn’t exist in the NFL before this point is really naive. The NFL was way too soft on the Patriots who should have received the sanctions the Saints did, and the Saints should have received the punishments the Pats received. On that note, Ron Paul ’12.

  14. briscocountyjr says: Apr 1, 2012 11:15 PM

    Good for the Saints to begin pulling up their pants and arriving as a team that operates legitimately.

    “…the fact that the Saints lied about the existence of the bounty system in 2009 — and that the Saints continued to brazenly use bounties for two seasons after the league investigated the situation.”

    No more complaining that this isn’t fair saint fan, cut and dried. Sean Payton is reportedly moving back into his mom’s basement to play video games with Jonah Hill.

  15. icdogg says: Apr 1, 2012 11:16 PM

    So if I offer a “hit man” money to kill someone, and they don’t actually kill that person, it’s no harm no foul?

  16. skoobyfl says: Apr 1, 2012 11:19 PM

    Defenses never target players, they target fans.

  17. chawk12thman says: Apr 1, 2012 11:23 PM

    Intent, not success is the problem. Along with the coverup and lies……..

  18. lks311 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:23 PM

    Okay, repeat after me, New Orleans Saints and Saints fans:

    ” It ain’t the Crime, It’s the Cover-Up…”

  19. zaggs says: Apr 1, 2012 11:24 PM

    “If, in other words, the offer of cash for a “cart-off” didn’t actually result in a player being carted off, the situation arguably becomes a case of intent without a crime.”

    So if you shoot a gun at someone, but miss, last I checked you’re still guilty of a crime. Not to mention not being a court of law the NFL will likely say “Take your weak ass crap out of my office”.

  20. sfsaintsfan says: Apr 1, 2012 11:25 PM

    This may have been the most objective “story” yet posted on this site about the whole “bounty” issue.

    Much of the “over the top” sensationalist reporting has been coming from here and that 4 letter network, but maybe some of you are finally seeing the forest for the trees.

    Finally, an admission that there is no substance to the “cash for crippling” allegation.

    I agree the Saints should be punished for possibly lying to the league, but what about the investigations of the other teams, who have players who have flat out admitted to intentionally targeting players with injuries.

    Anyone out there here of the brazen targeting of Kyle Williams of the 49’ers by players for the Giants in the NFC Championship Game just a couple of months ago? Intentionally targeting a player with a known concussion history for shots to the head, resulting in fumbles and a Super Bowl appearance for the Giants. And no investigation, let alone punishment? Fair is fair. Where is the justice from the NFL?

  21. daknight93 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:25 PM

    cash for crippling, now that’s funny…who have the saints defense crippled with a defense ranked near the bottom of the league….the league has admitted that nfl teams have incentive programs…saints were only wrong for accepting cash under the table which is against league rules, but there was a so called bounty on only 4 quarterbacks in 3yrs….all those quarterbacks are healthy and never were inflicted with injury…there’s too many holes in this bounty case…Roger goodell doesn’t care about player safety and that is a fact; this guy works for the owners and he will do everything in his power to take down any player…goodell has the best interest of the owners only and I don’t understand why fans can’t see that. Goodell is no good and without the whistleblower, this crap which is a waste of time wouldn’t be heard of.

  22. sackbombs says: Apr 1, 2012 11:25 PM

    So how about the draft. This and tebow are getting old

  23. zn0rseman says: Apr 1, 2012 11:30 PM

    There is bigger issue involved here… actually, several, which make the Saints enemy number one in the eyes of the league.

    1: Ornstein
    A convicted felon with many ties to sports gambling an a rap sheet that includes fun works like, racketeering. Looking at the horribly biased officiating, the fact that nearly 80% of bets were placed in favor of the Vikings, and the “Ronnie Harmon” tendancies of a couple of Viking players, it certainly appears on the surface as if there is a bit larger level of corruption goin on here. The league can claim it is handong out this punishment/slap-on-the-wrist for whatever reason. The fact of the matter is, Ornstein’s role and presence in the Saints sidelines durin their playoff run is UGLY for the league.

    The Saints gave this joker a Super Bowl ring!

    2: During he league investigation, the Saints key leaders lied from the top (Benson) all the way down to the most idiotic of players (Sharper) about what was going on. They still have not really owned up to this thing, fighting via appeal what was a slap on the wrist compared to their crime.

    3: The damage done is huge, and irreparable. I’m not just talking about the Vikings being robbed of a Super Bowl. The real damage to me is that many fans, not just Viking fans, felt that game was rigged. That sentiment has been growing among the fans of the league for quite some time, and if it gets any worse, the NFL is doomed as an organization.

  24. raylewis96 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:30 PM

    Can’t get enough of these saints stories!!! Whoo!

  25. andyreidisfat says: Apr 1, 2012 11:32 PM

    The suspensions should stick. Not because of the crime it self, that’s less than 4 games. But because they were told not to and they did it anyway and lied about it. I am sure saints fans are pissed and they should be, but not at the dumbass commish but at their own team for hurting the fans

  26. brandonyer says: Apr 1, 2012 11:35 PM

    This is going to be a lot more funny when the rest of the suspensions get handed down.

    Saints fans crying now should try to remember how they felt after spygate and realize they are even more classless.

  27. eagleswin says: Apr 1, 2012 11:37 PM

    And the league will undoubtedly justify the punishment based on the fact that the Saints lied about the existence of the bounty system in 2009 — and that the Saints continued to brazenly use bounties for two seasons after the league investigated the situation.

    ——————————————

    This is the biggest issue for the appeals process to overcome. The coaches and players defied the league since 2009 to do anything about it. It’s on the record that they’ve been lieing about it for 3 years.

    The saints could’ve avoided this by heading the leagues warnings and attempts to not punish the Saints. The Saints forced the issue and deserve what they’ve gotten.

  28. woodyg says: Apr 1, 2012 11:39 PM

    Once again …..

    This goes to once again prove that the punishment for ‘bountygate’ should have been a complete dismantling of the New Orleans franchise. A player/coach dispersal draft would have exiled the guilty to a defunct career ending. The SuperDome would have been torn down. All written mention of a team named the Saints would have been removed from NFL history. Any conversation of a Saint’s football team in public would be deemed illegal by Congress. It would be like the Saints never existed.

    Instead of “Who Dat”, it would be “Where Dat.”

  29. hutch119 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:42 PM

    Is attempted murder not a crime? Just because the Saints weren’t good at getting these bonuses doesn’t mean they weren’t out to get em. Can’t we just get this over with. The Saints will take their punishment no one will even think of doing this again because of the stiffness of the punishment and we can move on to some football.

  30. mark0226 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:43 PM

    “Nailing the Saints for something that other teams quite possibly have been doing, but that the NFL hasn’t fully investigated, could be painted as inequitable.”

    That’s nearly exactly what I said in a previous comment in the article about Saints fans standing behind the team.

  31. babyhorsemorgan says: Apr 1, 2012 11:46 PM

    Lawyers for the accused will invoke the “Clumsy and Inept Criminals” clause. The intent was there, the execution lacking.

  32. RavenzGunnerz says: Apr 1, 2012 11:49 PM

    “Punish em” – James Harrison

  33. brandonyer says: Apr 1, 2012 11:52 PM

    Anyone who says bounties don’t ruin the integrity of football and the NFL is not a real fan of sports.

    Football is easily the most enjoyable sport to watch. Whether you enjoy it for X’s and O’s, big hits, touchdowns, or just casually you can’t possibly believe there is any room for trying to injure another player for your own financial gain.

  34. timtheenchanter1 says: Apr 1, 2012 11:54 PM

    “Nailing the Saints for something that other teams quite possibly have been doing, but that the NFL hasn’t fully investigated, could be painted as inequitable.”

    ——————

    B.S. I could be on a highway with 9000 other cars going over the speed limit. If Officer Friendly puts his lights on behind me, I’m still the one who’s paying the ticket.

    These have to be the worst defenses ever – i can’t believe they’re going to the commish with these. He should ADD to the punishment because they are so lame:

    “We tried to break the rules but we sucked at it, so let’s pretend it never happened”

    “We told them to break the rules but didn’t really mean it.”

    “Everyone else was breaking the rules.”

    and

    “The cops were so stupid last time that they couldn’t even catch us, so you obviously can’t trust them now that they did catch us.

    My 8 year old comes up with better excuses than these.

  35. the1vito says: Apr 1, 2012 11:57 PM

    I actually think Commissioner Goodell would be doing them a favor by upholding the suspension versus reducing Payton’s suspension, by say, 25 percent. I think it would actually be worse for the Saints for this season if Payton were only to be suspended for 12 games or so. As it is now, once the season starts, the team can, for the most part, focus on the season and less on the bounty story. Obviously there will be an adjustment when Vitt comes back from his suspension, and there will be media attention at that time as well as when Loomis’ suspension is over. However, it wouldn’t compare with what it would be like if Payton were to come back three quarters of the way through the season. The adjustment that would then be necessary to adjust back to him as head coach may be difficult. If not, because the team is expecting it, then the head coach for the first major portion of the season may have a harder time. It seems by Goodell making it an entire season, whoever the interim head coach is will at least be coaching with the knowledge of everyone that he is the head coach for the entire season, and everyone can plan accordingly.

  36. mjkelly77 says: Apr 2, 2012 12:06 AM

    Attempted murder that doesn’t result in murder is still punishable.

  37. profootballwalk says: Apr 2, 2012 12:10 AM

    Well, yes, Your Honor, I did hire an assassin to shoot the President. But he kept missing, so you should let me go! And anyway, lots of murderers aren’t caught, so why should I be punished?

    Payton’s punishment should be doubled for being a monster dickwad, if this is his excuse.

  38. letmesetyoustraight says: Apr 2, 2012 12:17 AM

    zn0rseman says: (AKA Whiny Viking fan) says:

    “Looking at the horribly biased officiating, the fact that nearly 80% of bets were placed in favor of the Vikings, and the “Ronnie Harmon” tendancies of a couple of Viking players, it certainly appears on the surface as if there is a bit larger level of corruption goin on here.”

    LMAO. I think your tin foil hat is a bit snug.

  39. geauxmez says: Apr 2, 2012 12:26 AM

    hating the saints is the new liking the packers… if you want to be a bandwagoner thats fine, but taking shots at Katrina is absolutely uncalled for and childish. this would be the equivalent to taking shouts at the jets/giants/bills by referencing 911. grow up.

  40. vtopa says: Apr 2, 2012 12:27 AM

    I love the bloodthirsty, stupid masses on this site who are so invested in the idea of the Saints being doormats that they are willing to accept the BS of a liar like Goodell. Well the Saints aren’t doormats. And Goodell is no angel.

    Now we hear that the Saints might have been made scapegoats? Now we find that there may not be any real evidence of intent to injure?

    What a joke the NFL is. What a joke the media has been. And what a joke you so-called fans have been.

  41. cliffordc05 says: Apr 2, 2012 12:27 AM

    The league not only investigated the bounties but told the Saints to knock it off even though the Saints claimed nothing was going on. It seems obvious that the league knew there was a bounty system after the first investigation but didn’t feel they had enough evidence.

    The second investigation came after the Saints thumbed their nose at the league. The penalties are not simply because of the bounty system but the insubordination of the Saints. Who do they think they are……the Cowboys and Redskins.

  42. marcinhouston says: Apr 2, 2012 12:28 AM

    So does the softening of the suspension for Suh after appeal indicate foot stomping is now 100% tolerated in the league????????????????

  43. coltsluckdynasty says: Apr 2, 2012 12:29 AM

    Wow, just some pure hate posted on here. I think the saints definitely got what they deserved, but some of the comments are downright crazy. The saints beat my colts straight up, and because Peyton M. choked as expected. Lighten up folks, it’s football. Get ready for the Indy dynasty… Luck is the truth, and will dominate this league in the next 2 years. Don’t hate, having back to back hall of fame quarterbacks doesn’t seem fair, shows you timing is everything.!!.

  44. acetw says: Apr 2, 2012 12:30 AM

    woodyg – While I would agree with that regarding the Patriots and their ‘actual’ cheating scandal….

    You’re still just a troll. (A good, albeit ridiculous one, but a troll nonetheless.)

  45. riverhorsey says: Apr 2, 2012 12:34 AM

    Kind of like a contract to murder someone.

    Well we missed the guy so we didn’t do anything wrong !!

  46. bayoubauer says: Apr 2, 2012 12:56 AM

    woodyg says:
    Apr 1, 2012 11:39 PM
    Once again …..

    This goes to once again prove that the punishment for ‘bountygate’ should have been a complete dismantling of the New Orleans franchise. A player/coach dispersal draft would have exiled the guilty to a defunct career ending. The SuperDome would have been torn down. All written mention of a team named the Saints would have been removed from NFL history. Any conversation of a Saint’s football team in public would be deemed illegal by Congress. It would be like the Saints never existed.

    Instead of “Who Dat”, it would be “Where Dat.”

    You’re a dumbass.

  47. discosucs2005 says: Apr 2, 2012 12:56 AM

    zaggs says:
    Apr 1, 2012 11:24 PM
    “If, in other words, the offer of cash for a “cart-off” didn’t actually result in a player being carted off, the situation arguably becomes a case of intent without a crime.”

    So if you shoot a gun at someone, but miss, last I checked you’re still guilty of a crime. Not to mention not being a court of law the NFL will likely say “Take your weak ass crap out of my office”.
    __________________________________________

    Yeah, but attempted murder is way less of a crime than murder.

  48. all32 says: Apr 2, 2012 12:56 AM

    Appeals may focus on disconnect between bounties, on-field actions.

    Don’t you mean – Appeals my focus on “disconnecting” an opponents head from its body on the field of action.

  49. paulitik74 says: Apr 2, 2012 12:59 AM

    Saints fans need to be groveling at Goodell’s feet and thank him that this is all they got. The Saints were allowed for 3 years to get away with bounties, paying felons to do their logistics, and stealing prescription drugs, with no punishment except a “hey, stop doing that”. In arrogant defiance, the corrupt Saints organization thumbed their nose at the NFL exploiting the feelings and goodwill of the media and the NFL to protect “America’s Darlings” after Katrina.

    The Saints were given a 4th strike, a 5th down, and now they are crying and playing the victim. Threatening Goodell and hoping to embarrass him when he comes to New Orleans next February. Keep it up Saints fans, it will only make the decision of which team to ship to Los Angeles much easier.

  50. xenova1 says: Apr 2, 2012 1:14 AM

    I hope the owners can look beyond this case and see the glaring problem that is being revealed by this case. There is a problem when one entity is both the executive and judicial branches. Der Kommisar is more like the Der Fuhrer.

    Players know when they appeal a fine for unsportsmanlike conduct, there isn’t a chance in hell that the fine will be either reduced or removed.

    I think there should be a panel made up of judges representing the Owners, the League Office, the NFLPA and an unbiased 3rd party who will review all appeals brought forth by teams and players. They will look at each case without bias and refer to prior precedences in evaluating the outcome.

    Exactly what rule or prior cases was the extent of the Saints’ punishment determined? It seemed to have been determined by one man hell-bent on making his point.

    The Saints may be guilty as hell but to let the executer of the rules to also be the judge and jury is absurd. Hopefully the owners can do something to correct the unbalanced powers between the league, teams, and players.

  51. genericuser8888 says: Apr 2, 2012 1:53 AM

    To all those that accuse the Saints of cheating, what did they cheat at, sucking on defense?

    If they had an illegal incentive program, it was an utter failure. Their D has been horrible under the entire Greg Williams reign.

    A few thoughts…

    1. there is no long list of injured players due to the bounty program.

    2. Apparently the worst thing the “bounty” program managed to do was knock a 42 year old quarterback (Farve) out of a game for one or two plays.

    3. The only reason they won the superbowl in 2009 was because they had a high turnover ratio (thanks to Darren Sharper and Tracy Porter). Once Sharper had knee surgery in the offseason and did not come back at 100%, the Greg Williams “blitz package” defense was shown to be an utter failure.

    4. Some teams WITHOUT bounty programs were more penalized for roughing penalties than the Saints were WITH one.

    The Saints deserve to be punished for lying to the league and having a bounty program. True. Their championship does not deserve an asterisk. They won by putting up 38+ points a game and getting turnovers, not by injuring people.

  52. consolecomplaints says: Apr 2, 2012 1:57 AM

    Who else has the gonads to call an onside kick in the middle of the Superbowl?

    Nobody.

    That’s why we need Sean Payton in football. You don’t get that sort of entertainment from any other coach.

    Punish him, sure, but at least let him come back in time for the playoff run. After all, I’m sure the biggest punishment would be for him to come back just in time to lose to Seattle again in round one.

    I think Vikings fans would rather see him lose than sit out.

  53. tbtrojan says: Apr 2, 2012 2:07 AM

    So just because they weren’t good enough to actually collect on the payments there was nothing wrong with what they did?
    Knocking a guy out of the game is not against the rules by itself, having the intention of knocking a guy out for an unreported bonus (Salary cap and IRS issues) is. Even if those payments were never collected it holds salary cap issues because they would count as a LTBE bonus.

    People get locked up for attempted murder all the time because the intent was bad enough. Charles Manson never actually killed a person but he’s been locked up for many a year now.

    Throw in that they lied multiple times firect to Goodells face about doing it and they deserve everything they get

  54. genericuser8888 says: Apr 2, 2012 2:13 AM

    The question Goodell asked himself:

    How do you punish a team for things that on-field referees saw no clear evidence of (intent to injure) and seem to have had few results (the bounty program)?

    The answer he thought up:

    Give out the harshest punishment in the history of the NFL.

    What he should have asked himself, and what is a much bigger problem that’s gotten lost in all this:

    If the Saints are running a bounty program, why, over the course of 3 years of investigation and about 50+ games (including playoff runs), were we not able to find/see it more clearly?

    It seems like the NFL has an oversight problem. THIS should be the real story.

  55. purplegreenandgold says: Apr 2, 2012 2:13 AM

    woodyg says: Apr 1, 2012 11:39 PM

    Once again …..

    This goes to once again prove that the punishment for ‘bountygate’ should have been a complete dismantling of the New Orleans franchise. A player/coach dispersal draft would have exiled the guilty to a defunct career ending. The SuperDome would have been torn down. All written mention of a team named the Saints would have been removed from NFL history. Any conversation of a Saint’s football team in public would be deemed illegal by Congress. It would be like the Saints never existed.

    Instead of “Who Dat”, it would be “Where Dat.”
    ====================================
    hey cheech-i thought u quit chokin on that stuff

  56. djaehne says: Apr 2, 2012 2:13 AM

    This sounds like a hollywood movie….a story with no substance, just an outcome.

  57. terrygca says: Apr 2, 2012 2:26 AM

    They weight of the punishment is for the cover up; not the crime.

  58. daknight93 says: Apr 2, 2012 3:16 AM

    the nfl is a joke and roger goodell has formed the new national flag football league…A new world order is here: hard hitting tackling is a criminal offense, hard hitting tackling is unacceptable and is banned…Goodell says, I am creating a new culture in football…NFFL, new world order in football…yuck!

  59. keakuamai says: Apr 2, 2012 3:33 AM

    If this is a ply simply to buy time while they get their ducks in a row, fine, but if it’s an actual for real appeal, the real question is, did they know this was going on (yes they already admitted it) and did they stop when they were told (nope they admitted that too) and then lie about it when asked?

    The other factor here is that I agree with quite a few folks I’ve spoken to that the saints won’t learn a thing other than to keep this activity under better wraps.

    The real message to the world and rest of the league would have been to dismantle the team but that’s not realistic and wouldn’t be fair to the investors, the citizens of NO and fans.

    This should be a progressive disciplinary process and if they really want to move forward, they take their lumps, and put it behind them.

  60. jackm79 says: Apr 2, 2012 4:01 AM

    Uuhhhh….. The Giants weren’t paying each other to go after Williams. Do you understand what a “bounty” is?

  61. electionconfidential says: Apr 2, 2012 6:15 AM

    I just saw a replay of the Saints / Panthers game from last year. There was a bounty on Cam Newton. Just while I was watching there were two roughing the passer calls and one of those was a blatant helmet to helmet hit. You can’t tell me these bounties were somehow meaningless…

  62. robf2010 says: Apr 2, 2012 6:40 AM

    “B.S. I could be on a highway with 9000 other cars going over the speed limit. If Officer Friendly puts his lights on behind me, I’m still the one who’s paying the ticket.”

    The problem with that analogy is that Officer Friendly can only pull one car over. Officer Goodell can pull ALL 9000 other cars over. He’s choosing not to.

  63. robf2010 says: Apr 2, 2012 6:52 AM

    “I just saw a replay of the Saints / Panthers game from last year. There was a bounty on Cam Newton. Just while I was watching there were two roughing the passer calls and one of those was a blatant helmet to helmet hit.”

    No one is saying the Saints are angels. The Saints had 9 penalties for 82 yards in that game. Panthers had 7 for 65 yards. Close division games are always chippy.

  64. robf2010 says: Apr 2, 2012 6:54 AM

    “Uuhhhh….. The Giants weren’t paying each other to go after Williams. Do you understand what a “bounty” is?”

    So it’s OK to try to knock a player out as long as you don’t have a pool?

  65. lawyermalloy says: Apr 2, 2012 7:14 AM

    “the offer of cash for a “cart-off” didn’t actually result in a player being carted off, the situation arguably becomes a case of intent without a crime.”
    This is not correct!
    If 2 or more people conspired to commit assault on another, depending on what “overt acts” took place in furtherence of the conspiracy, a crime DID take place regardless of whether an injury ever occured!

  66. thereisalwaysnextyear says: Apr 2, 2012 7:56 AM

    Intent vs crime? So it’s ok if you hold up a store as long as you don’t get any money?

  67. gimmeabruschi says: Apr 2, 2012 8:12 AM

    The act of appealing this just punishment does not show contrition for the acts committed. If there is no contrition then the prospects for future transgressions are obvious. There is no lesson learned here. Ban him for life and let him appeal that.

  68. drunkenjunk says: Apr 2, 2012 8:17 AM

    Hey WoodyG, you’re an idiot. Go back to whatever backwoods hole you climbed out of.

  69. crabboil says: Apr 2, 2012 8:36 AM

    electionconfidential says: Apr 2, 2012 6:15 AM

    I just saw a replay of the Saints / Panthers game from last year. There was a bounty on Cam Newton. Just while I was watching there were two roughing the passer calls and one of those was a blatant helmet to helmet hit. You can’t tell me these bounties were somehow meaningless…

    ________________

    The call on Turk McBride for roughing Cam Newton was complete garbage, but we won’t talk about that. We’ll just chalk it up as more “evidence” against the Saints.

  70. musicman495 says: Apr 2, 2012 8:53 AM

    cdkreb says: Apr 1, 2012 11:10 PM

    Tell that to Brett Favre and Kurt Warner.
    ——————
    Once more for those with special needs – the hit on Warner after the interception in 2009 was a COMPLETELY LEGAL hit – the type of hit defensive players have been making on QB’s after interceptions for 50+ years. Not in dispute, even from Warner himself. Thus we are left with one or two disputed calls on one player in one game. Where is the evidence of a “3 year bounty program”??????

  71. musicman495 says: Apr 2, 2012 9:00 AM

    According to a source with knowledge of the situation, the appeals may consist of arguments based on the fundamental difference between the placement of “bounties” on players and the actual infliction of injury. If, in other words, the offer of cash for a “cart-off” didn’t actually result in a player being carted off, the situation arguably becomes a case of intent without a crime.
    —————————–
    There is no question that conspiracy to commit a crime is itself a crime. No one is saying (certainly I am not) that the Saints are totally innocent. I am saying that the charges and penalties are completely overblown, and the Saints are being singled out for a shifting standard that the commissioner is artificially creating to cover his backside for the upcoming court cases. And I believe the league is INTENTIONALLY not investigating the behavior of other teams so no jury will find out just how widespread this behavior has been.

    As for those geniuses on this forum who want to move next year’s Super Bowl, or remove the NFL franchise from New Orleans, or give some other team the Lombardi trophy for SB44 because of this, try the decaf.

  72. sinnermike says: Apr 2, 2012 9:10 AM

    Regarding posters on this site. Your comments are more about dislike for the saints than actual evidence of wrongdoing. There is no inforrmation regarding crippling, or carting off. That was made up in your mind. You are in possession of NO information with which to base your opinion on. Get a grip! Just be straight about it and just comment that you hate the saints and leave it at that.

  73. theytukrjobs says: Apr 2, 2012 9:55 AM

    There is zero evidence so far saying that other teams were illegally paying their players outside of the CBA for certain actions. And we know without a doubt that the Saints were the only team questioned in this way on the matter.

    Saints backers and bounty supporters seem to argue that their team should not be punished on the off chance that other teams were doing the same thing? Since when has that ever been an argument that works?

  74. notmanning says: Apr 2, 2012 10:49 AM

    What is it about a player screaming “Pay me my money!!!” after a kill shot, that is so hard to understand.

    If the program were not effective, they would not have organized/implemented/stressed it.

  75. dannersthemanners says: Apr 2, 2012 11:14 AM

    Someone broke my window last night. My neighbors said it was aliens from outer space. I asked several neighbors and that’s what they all said. Therefore, by Goodells’ logic, I should levy a year long suspension on aliens and fine anybody that helped the aliens break my window. When the aliens appeal, I will say, “clearly these aliens from outerspace lied to us all.”

  76. nard100 says: Apr 2, 2012 1:31 PM

    sfsaintsfan says:
    Apr 1, 2012 11:25 PM

    I agree the Saints should be punished for possibly lying to the league, but what about the investigations of the other teams, who have players who have flat out admitted to intentionally targeting players with injuries.

    Anyone out there here of the brazen targeting of Kyle Williams of the 49′ers by players for the Giants in the NFC Championship Game just a couple of months ago? Intentionally targeting a player with a known concussion history for shots to the head, resulting in fumbles and a Super Bowl appearance for the Giants. And no investigation, let alone punishment? Fair is fair. Where is the justice from the NFL?

    ———————————————————

    So let me get this straight:

    1. Your DC has admitted that there was a bounty program.

    2. You admit your team lied about said bounty program

    3. You admit the team should be punished but,

    then you embellish by making unsustantiated statements like or along the lines of :

    a. “Everybody else is doing it” – you have no proof that’s true

    b. You implicate another team (NY Giants) for what exactly? – injuring a player (didn’t happen), threatening to injure a player (try again).

    Then you conclude, “Where is the justice?” Wow! Talk about making us all a little dumber with those arguments. Your arguments so pathetic they don’t really deserve comment. I think we all know how this is going to end. There is going to be a leak about the whistleblower. Saints fans are going to villify that person for telling the truth. Then the media is going to expose every mistake that person has ever made sense the second grade (divorce, kids out of wedlock, shoplifting a pack of gum fom 7-11, etc.) and then only when their character is completely destroyed will Saints fans breathe a sigh of relief. PATHETIC

  77. kodakinvegas says: Apr 3, 2012 2:22 PM

    Come on already Goodell, refuse the appeal, mandate the punishments for the players involved, asterisk TH SB, crucify Vilma put the rules down in NO uncertain terms and let’s get back to football. We are all just about tired of the rhetoric and finger pointing, whining and attitudes. Move this years SB for fan safety and penalty to the Saints Org and let’s be DONE with it. Enough with the lollipops and kisses

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