Skip to content

Gregg Williams audio brings back into focus Giants’ hits on Kyle Williams

kyle-williams-fumble-in-front-of-devin-thomas-1 Getty Images

Back in January, weeks before the word “bounty” meant anything to football fans other than the brand of paper towels used to clean up spilled beer after a garbage-time touchdown allowed the underdog to cover the spread, a pair of Giants players admitted following the NFC title game that part of the strategy was to hit punt returner Kyle Williams in the head.

“The thing is, we knew he had four concussions, so that was our biggest thing, was to take him outta the game,” linebacker Jacquain Williams said at the time regarding Williams, who muffed a punt and fumbled a punt during San Francisco.

“He’s had a lot of concussions,” receiver Devin Thomas said.  “We were just like, ‘We gotta put a hit on that guy.’ . . .   [Giants reserve safety Tyler] Sash did a great job hitting him early and he looked kind of dazed when he got up.  I feel like that made a difference and he coughed it up.”

As Mike Silver of Yahoo! Sports explains it, filmmaker Shawn Pamphilon was specifically troubled by the Giants’ remarks, given what Pamphilon heard the night before the Saints played the 49ers in the division round.

“When [Gregg Williams] was talking about the Gore stuff and saying ‘cut off the head,’ I was thinking, ‘That’s a metaphor,’ ” Pamphilon told Silver.  “The thing that really got me was when he said the thing about No. 10 and concussions.  I thought, ‘Did he just say that?’  That was the red flag for me.  And then the comments by the Giants made it hit home even harder.”

What hits home even harder now is the possibility, if not likelihood, that Jacquain Williams and Devin Thomas didn’t come up with the importance of hitting Kyle Williams in the head on their own.  In nearly a dozen years of covering the NFL, one thing I’ve learned is that most of the things the players say publicly trace back to something a member of the coaching staff told them.

And so it’s now hard not to wonder whether one or more members of the Giants’ coaching staff were saying the same kind of things that Gregg Williams was saying to the Saints the night before the Giants played the 49ers.

Permalink 103 Comments Feed for comments Latest Stories in: New Orleans Saints, New York Giants, Rumor Mill, San Francisco 49ers, Top Stories
103 Responses to “Gregg Williams audio brings back into focus Giants’ hits on Kyle Williams”
  1. RavenzGunnerz says: Apr 5, 2012 3:35 PM

    yup, pretty much standard operating procedure in NFL defence locker rooms.

    But only punish the saints. The scapegoat, as if they are the only ones who hit hard.

  2. to147 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:37 PM

    It stands to reason. I mean Devin Thomas probably doesn’t keep a notebook on how many concussions every opponent has I imagine.

  3. sickcuz says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    That’s the smell of that of this old can finally opened….We’re about to get a peak behind the curtain of the NFL that we were never intended to see.

  4. firstpitchslam says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    Scumbag! No other way to say it.

  5. biggerballz says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    I hope that karma gets the players who intend to hurt others back.

  6. jackm79 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    The question is, was there a pool of money that was going to be given to a player that hurt Wliams?? If not, it’s no different then defenses trying to get to the QB on every pass play.

  7. dvdman123 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    Oh please someone make this bountygate thing stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sounds like old of “Sanford and Son” reruns, the same stories over and over again.

  8. ballinsohard says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    stay on it florio, the NFL is going to try sweep this under the proverbial rug and make it go away. This could be huge.

    I especially like the NFLPA angle to this story, protecting their own against their own. A house divided cannot stand

  9. FlikeMorio says: Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM

    I wish somebody would “knock the f—” out of Gregg Williams.

  10. mulletcork says: Apr 5, 2012 3:41 PM

    Hey man, it’s called strategy. If a guy has a head you go for it. If the guy has a knee, you go for it. That’s how the game is played brother.

  11. nfl1818 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:41 PM

    Sash rocked him on a hit where he himself dove head first – head to head The idiot network never showed the replay. Williams was clearly dazed, but did return a few punts b4 the fatal fumbles

  12. nowillrepeat says: Apr 5, 2012 3:41 PM

    Good job Goddell.

    With taking this public, the liberal media will force you to change the game we all grew up loving.

    I do not see this ending well for defensive players, not just on the Saints, but league wide.

    This story is the beginning of the end

  13. jackers252 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:43 PM

    It takes this for you to see this? We have been talking about this, tweeting this, and calling in to the big name talk shows about this for WEEKS!

    Just look into the following:
    07 Packers
    Carolina and Mike Minter’s comments
    Titans old D-Coach Jim Schwartz giving out bats and boxing gloves
    Ravens T-Suggs openly talking about bounties on H.Ward and Mendenhall
    Comments from former Redskins players (even talking about Gibbs giving $100 bills for QB knockdowns)
    Bills players comments from when Williams was coach

    And most importantly, the Giants. There comments were ONE WEEK after the audio of Williams. It’s not like this was years ago (like the 07 Packers).

    Saints fans understand punishing the Saints. They don’t agree with the severity. If the Giants don’t receive some major penalties then you will all see the hypocricy in regards to the league’s position on player safety.

  14. mburger13 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:43 PM

    so now we know that the Super Bowl Champion Saints were using bounties…

    and there are clear indications that Super Bowl Champion Giants were coaching players to target opponents injuries…

    if the NFL wants to deter this practice they better start leaking that teams like the Colts, Rams, Browns, Bills, Vikings and Jaguars were doing it too.

  15. wicky888 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:44 PM

    That was players talking about hitting other players to win the game …… thats football. It wasnt coaches offering money to players to hurt other players and then denying it / lying about it / continuing to do it. I really dont see whats is so hard to understand here.

  16. pdxbolt says: Apr 5, 2012 3:45 PM

    How’s that new editor working out for ya?

  17. hendawg21 says: Apr 5, 2012 3:46 PM

    Ok isn’t this whole thing getting a bit out of hand? I mean come on pretty soon we’ll be relegated to watching Lingerie football “not that there’s anything wrong with it” and or flag football…you can’t take the violence out of football but you can take dirty play out of it…if it’s a legit hit oh well, if it’s a dirty hit then make your case but for now can we just forget about this…everyday seems like someone pops off about something…

  18. bobhk says: Apr 5, 2012 3:47 PM

    NFL will prolly sweep it under the rug.

  19. weaponx73 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:25 PM

    There are a lot of assumptions in this article. You assume what the player said came from a coach. Then you assume that this is evidence of a bounty program or is just as bad. Give me a break. Because no player has ever talked about taking out another player without a coach saying it. Slow news day or is the author just a Patriots fan?

  20. footballhistorian says: Apr 5, 2012 4:25 PM

    I’ve been wrestling with this whole thing internally – but after hearing Williams’ (coach and player) and Thomas’ comments, this mindset of intentionally causing extra trauma to the head or knees is wrong. We’re talking about potentially (and intentionally) causing permanent, disabling injury…death in the extreme. The coaches should be “strung up”, as they have. The players too, they actually carry out “the hit”. And I know…”it’s a violent sport”, “let’s just make it flag” seem to be the justifications – but the intention to injure in this fashion is wrong. It’d be interesting to see what can be found of this practice in college or high school football. I’m sure it doesn’t just happen in the pros.

  21. tedesco47 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:26 PM

    Say it aint so!
    The Giants cheating? No way!
    You mean to tell me the same team who had defensive players fall to the ground pretending to be injured because they were tired, tried cheating again in the playoffs?

    Enjoy your tainted superbowl g-men.

  22. dkrause71 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:27 PM

    Those claiming that the Saints shouldn’t get punished because other teams do it are just ignorant.

    1) You have a league getting nailed with lawsuits by all these former players and you really think the league is going to just brush off a team caught headhunting? That’s ammo to the lawsuits that the NFL doesn’t protect its players.

    2) Actual proof the Saints did this clearly outweighs that other teams might be doing this. Is it likely other teams headhunt? Of course but that doesn’t mean everyone does, or that other teams actually give money do it either.

    3) Lying about it for years and to the commish was just stupid. They probably would have gotten a slap on the wrist if they didn’t lie and this was dealt with years ago. Commish really has no choice but to stiffen the penalty when you lie about it.

    The lawsuits and the lying i think are the biggest factors to the penalties, then its the headhunting. Goodell is sending the message to all teams to cut it out.

  23. paulsmith107 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:28 PM

    Go back two seasons ago when the giants knocked what 7 qb’s outta games. This goes on everywhere but now that it’s been put out there let’s see what that hypocrite GODdell does about it. I mean in the wake of all this players suing over concussions and giants players trying to give someone a concussion hmmm pretty serious business

  24. gwylie1 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:31 PM

    this is turning into the steriods in baseball witch hunt. Every team does it (just like the majority of MLB payers were on roids) but the Saints were the unfortunate ones to get caught.

  25. caliangel08 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:31 PM

    So the real reason for an injury report is to tell one team where to hit the other team for maximum effectiveness of a hit ????

  26. mark0226 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:31 PM

    The Mara’s will ensure that this is swept under the rug. No need to dig further. They already have their sacrificial lamb. Nothing to see here.

  27. sisqsage says: Apr 5, 2012 4:31 PM

    Context on K. Williams and his concussions: the first person to talk openly about his concussion history was Williams himself a few days after the game at Seattle when he got hit hard while not demonstrating proper field awareness (again) during a play.

    Savvy veteran players never disclose key details about their injuries (if any details at all), especially to the friggin’ media. That would make it easy for teams like the Giants to find out…and act accordingly.

    Williams even acknowledged this right after the SEA game when he told a Bay Area reporter, “I am not supposed to talk to you about this”, but then did so a few days later anyway.

    Targeting players’ vulnerable spots is wrong (G. Williams will likely and justifiably be banned for life after today’s audio tape), but this stuff has been going on forever too in some form. Teams look for any edge they can get.
    But it doesn’t help when you unwittingly draw a bull’s eye on your head either.

    Loose lips can sink a team’s shot at the Super Bowl.

  28. melissashusband says: Apr 5, 2012 4:32 PM

    I am so sick of people reffering to everyscabcal as
    Bountygate, Spygate etc…. The Watergate dscandal was named after the hotel that the recording DC that was a large part of the scandal. Puttoing “gate on the end of every scandal is just lazy and stupid. Not to mention incorrect

    ——————————————–

    Should read I am so sick of people reffering to everyscandal as
    Bountygate, Spygate etc sorry

  29. baddegg says: Apr 5, 2012 4:33 PM

    No punishment for Mara…he doesn’t feel this sways the “competitive balance” of the games.

  30. theservice10 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:35 PM

    If they were that concerned, maybe they shouldnt have put in a guy who had four concussions.

  31. brintfatre says: Apr 5, 2012 4:35 PM

    And remember the Giant’s orchestrated “injuries” to stop the clock for Eli’s 4th quarter miracles…

    NY Giants reigning Superbowl Champs*

  32. jerseyshoregiant says: Apr 5, 2012 4:37 PM

    I don’t recall any Giants players saying we got to hit him in the head or kill the head. Only that they got to put a hit on him. Fact is you have to put a hit on any player that touches the ball. Big difference from what Greg Williams was saying. Greg Williams was making a point to tell his players to make illegal hits(i.e. hitting the QB under the chin, kill the head, etc).
    And let’s get one thing very clear, the game tapes were reviewed after the Giants/49ers games and there wasn’t anything close to illegal with respect to hitting Kyle Williams. It’s one thing to be very aware of a players injuries and another to specifically target the area that was injured(there was no head hunting in that game)

  33. mike913 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:37 PM

    the league doesnt want defensive players targeting injuries well heres a simple solution dont put out injury reports every week for other teams to see whos injured and what their injury is

  34. q4life25 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:37 PM

    This aint about my Giants!!! its about the Saints. We did what we had to do to get the “W”.

  35. moppy1985 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:38 PM

    The Giants probably had bounty’s too, but is that out in the open right now? no. This was just a couple of giants players saying they were trying to hit a player that has had concussions. I still don’t agree with that and think those giants players should get something coming there way too, but it is no where near the same as coaches giving money for tearing someones ACL

  36. sportmentary says: Apr 5, 2012 4:38 PM

    For Saints fans who wer delusional and said that Goodell had no evidence of the Bounty system and said the evidence exonerating the Saints would come…You’re right, more evidence has come and it’s even worse than we thought.

    I think if Payton and Co. go into their appeals saying that there is no proof of a cause and affect of the pay for performance to actual injuries, that could be aonther lie and could further penalize these aholes.

    I hope the fact that Payotn is making a mockery of what he did, should make him vulnerable to a stiffer penalty, up to and including a lifetime ban!

    Saints fans mention the Patriots and spygate but when they were caught, they took their penalties in stride, didn’t appeal and didn’t blame others. They didn’t say every team did it. The Saints don’t have that type of class. I’m not a Pats fan, I’m a Dolphins fan but the Pats acted in a much better fashion than the Saints are now.

  37. jakek2 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:55 PM

    Blame Harbaugh. If there was such a concern over the kid’s health, he shouldn’t have been playing.

  38. musicman495 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:56 PM

    jerseyshoregiant says: Apr 5, 2012 4:37 PM

    I don’t recall any Giants players saying we got to hit him in the head or kill the head.
    —————-
    We don’t know what was said because there has been no investigation of anyone except the Saints. That is the whole point.

  39. zaggs says: Apr 5, 2012 4:57 PM

    Or as some players have said before, most in the NFL (except for maybe the Morris Clairborne ilk) can read an injury report.
    But what “hits” against Kyle Williams? Did any Giant player hit him in the head? Good lord 2 of his fumbles happen without a Giant touching him and the third happened after Jacquain Williams slapped his arm. The Giants had chances to lay a big hit on him, and didn’t. Its just as likely that the Giants coaching staff heard what the players said and told them not to go after Kyle williams.

  40. tezz123 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:58 PM

    All teams target injured players that is not going to change. I remember Tony Dungy saying he made sure he ran down the list of all the injured players pregame or DeAngelo Hall saying Romo’s ribs are a bulls-eye.

  41. ruggerlad says: Apr 5, 2012 4:58 PM

    This whole thing is stupid. Any defensive player is encouraged to and is trying to cleanly put players out of the game.
    Does a boxer avoid hitting an apponent in a cut? a swollen eye? It is part of the game.

    If a knee is intentionally taken out or a very late hit was made and they were rewarded for that financially then that is different.

  42. killitandeatit says: Apr 5, 2012 4:58 PM

    Why do teams keep certain injuries to key players,like q.b.’s ,a closely guarded secret ? You know how you hear about a player that had this or that injury but the player continued playing ? Because they didn’t want opposing teams targeting that injury ! Rule number #1 : no money pool. Rule number #2 don’t have a team meeting or even a few players talk about targeting or deliberately trying to knock players out . As a niner fan I don’t think there is anything here. The niner D is coming and we have “no pool ” and we don’t “talk” about the obvious. Don’t be surprised if your favorite player is knocked out of a game or the season, for that matter. It’s all part of the game .The Saints just took it too far and lied to cover it up. The draft is three weeks away and the next season will soon be here. Time to move on.

  43. musicman495 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:00 PM

    dkrause71 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:27 PM

    Those claiming that the Saints shouldn’t get punished because other teams do it are just ignorant.
    ————————-
    Oh, I get it. The league is justified in being unfair to the Saints because there is a lawsuit pending, and there has been no investigation of any other team of the Saints, so there has been no evidence of any other bounty systems. And you call other people ignorant?

  44. mpen15e says: Apr 5, 2012 5:03 PM

    “the league doesnt want defensive players targeting injuries well heres a simple solution dont put out injury reports every week for other teams to see whos injured and what their injury is”

    While I like the idea, the problem is bookmakers set lines and people gamble off of those injury reports. That’s also a subject the NFL doesn’t want to touch because it helps with the ratings.

  45. sfsaintsfan says: Apr 5, 2012 5:05 PM

    Again, the Saints talked about it and didn’t do it.

    The Giants talked about it and actually did it.

    New Orleans Saints get punishment.

    New York Giants get a pass.

    NFL Headquarters is in New York City.

  46. chawk12thman says: Apr 5, 2012 5:06 PM

    The NFL, with the current sanctions wants to change the culture without changing the product. I hope it can be done, but I have my doubts.

    The facts are that players need to be on the edge of committing assault to be effective. They know it and all accept that as part of the game much the same as a boxer who gets hurt in the ring can expect his opponent to attack his weakness. As long as it is done within the rules…….we all can accept what happens on the field as being part of the game.

    Specifically regarding this article; looking back at all games with hard hits and quotes by players is just speculation that without substantive proof or information that it is tied to a bounty system is just that, speculation.

    Coaches and players can and should prepare to “test” their opponents for their known weaknesses. This can be attacking a type of system or specific player who is recovering from some injury, is lousy at a particular skill or has some other weakness. I bet that those teams that play the Saints are going to try to exploit the team’s lack of GM, Head Coach and Assistant Head Coach this coming season. Not to mention the defensive players that they will be missing for whatever number of games they are suspended. That’s the game!

  47. delmonte55 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:07 PM

    Everyone is doing it….it’s football. We as fans ask for it as well. How often do we talk about the hardest hits and the dirtiest players. Dick Butkus once said he dreamt of hitting a guy so hard his head rolled off down the field. Now we are all so pious that this is unacceptable!!! Give me a break.

  48. Kave Krew says: Apr 5, 2012 5:07 PM

    G-men bounties against Brady in SB42 for sure!!!! SB46 too while we are at it….

    Investigate G-men bountygate against the spygates

  49. nineroutsider says: Apr 5, 2012 5:08 PM

    Why is my team on the receiving end of all of this? I’m ready to move on. The Giants game was a clean, tough football game. We lost. Same with the Saints game. We won. I don’t care who was flapping their gums about what before or after. I’m moving on.

    Please stop targeting my team though; we take 9 years off from the playoffs and this is how we are welcomed back…I will take it as a sign of respect. Let’s get the punishments wrapped up and move on already!

  50. lowleadman says: Apr 5, 2012 5:09 PM

    After hearing that audio clip, I don’t think the punishment handed down by Roger was potent enough. What a class organization.

    Peyton should get 2 years, the fine should be 5 mil, Williams should be banned for life and they ought to lose a few extra draft picks as well.

    Peyton appealing? He should be happy with his punishment after all of that. Creepy two faced individual that he is.

    One other point. No way should Goodell allow Peyton to hand pick his successor or be involved in any way with the NFL during his suspension, including network commentating.

  51. thankheavenfornumberseven says: Apr 5, 2012 5:10 PM

    melissashusband says:Apr 5, 2012 4:32 PM

    I am so sick of people reffering to everyscabcal as
    Bountygate, Spygate etc…. The Watergate dscandal was named after the hotel that the recording DC that was a large part of the scandal. Puttoing “gate on the end of every scandal is just lazy and stupid. Not to mention incorrect

    ——————————————–

    Should read I am so sick of people reffering to everyscandal as
    Bountygate, Spygate etc sorry
    ________

    Melissa must be very proud.

  52. akd1287 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:10 PM

    Is anyone surprised by this? Do you see what the players do to each other on the football field? Of course they’re out to hurt one another. It’s part of the game but the Saints (like the Patriots before them) forgot the most important of all the rules: Don’t get caught.

  53. baroneski29 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:10 PM

    Repeat next year!!! It will complete the dynasty.

  54. arlingtonassasin says: Apr 5, 2012 5:11 PM

    tedesco47 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:26 PM

    Say it aint so!
    The Giants cheating? No way!
    You mean to tell me the same team who had defensive players fall to the ground pretending to be injured because they were tired, tried cheating again in the playoffs?

    Enjoy your tainted superbowl g-men.
    ———————————————————-
    You gotta be kidding me….Youre trying to compare the Saints coaches handing out envelopes of cash rewarding players trying to inflict serious injuries on opponents to a Giants rookie LB saying they were going to try and rattle another young player with some good hits due to his injury history? Thats like saying it immoral to foul Shaq because hes a bad free throw shooter. Wake up….Now if a Giants player took out Williams with a viscious dirty hit and a coach slipped a couple grand in his pocket after then, yeah. Give your head a shake before you talk….unless its just something in the water up there in New England?

  55. theytukrjobs says: Apr 5, 2012 5:16 PM

    People keep confusing the issue with articles like this.

    The Saints are in trouble for paying players in ways that are strictly prohibited by the CBA. They are in trouble for instructing and paying their players to make illegal hits on opposing team’s quarterbacks. The reason the penalties are as bad as they are is that they lied and continued to cheat even after being caught essentially.

    The Saints used a financial motivation technique to gain a competitive advantage. No other team was doing this. This is cheating because the rules clearly state that you can’t do this.

    The Giants did not do anything that the rules prohibit. In fact hitting a punt returner in the helmet after he catches the ball is allowed in the rules. Had they paid their players to put a helmet hit on him during a fair catch that would be different.

  56. geo1113 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:18 PM

    Oh, I get it. The league is justified in being unfair to the Saints because there is a lawsuit pending, and there has been no investigation of any other team of the Saints, so there has been no evidence of any other bounty systems. And you call other people ignorant?
    ———————

    No. The Saints lied to the commisioner’s face. That’s the difference.

  57. reallybigk says: Apr 5, 2012 5:19 PM

    musicman495 says:
    Apr 5, 2012 5:00 PM
    dkrause71 says: Apr 5, 2012 4:27 PM

    Those claiming that the Saints shouldn’t get punished because other teams do it are just ignorant.
    ————————-
    Oh, I get it. The league is justified in being unfair to the Saints because there is a lawsuit pending, and there has been no investigation of any other team of the Saints, so there has been no evidence of any other bounty systems. And you call other people ignorant?

    Why should the league investigate other teams? They were given evidence of the Saints bounty program and investigated it. They shouldn’t have to investigate all the other teams before they punish the Saints. If the Saints weren’t so arrogant they would have stopped the bounty program when they were warned to the first time. Instead, they continued the program, lied and covered it up.

  58. T-T-T-TebowAndTheJets says: Apr 5, 2012 5:21 PM

    I sincerely hope I never become the kind of loser that takes such a great amount of joy in pointing out grammar errors.

  59. reallybigk says: Apr 5, 2012 5:24 PM

    sfsaintsfan says:
    Apr 5, 2012 5:05 PM
    Again, the Saints talked about it and didn’t do it.

    The Giants talked about it and actually did it.

    New Orleans Saints get punishment.

    New York Giants get a pass.

    NFL Headquarters is in New York City.

    This may be the dumbest post of the day. The Giants did it? They did what?

  60. djrando7 says: Apr 5, 2012 5:25 PM

    The name Gregg Williams just screams scum to me. He should never, ever, be allowed to be a “coach” in the NFL again. I remember when a lot of people were interested in hiring him to be their head coach last off-season (my Broncos included). I bet those teams are very thankful that it didn’t take, because those teams would be in a world of hurt right now, as he probably would have initiated a bounty program for their teams as well.

    The dude is scum, and for the Saints fan that thinks this is just because the team was hitting hard, really needs to step back and look at it in perspective. First of all, the NFL was lied to for three years. The Saints as an organization should have demanded it to stop right when it was brought to their attention by the Commissioner. They didn’t, and Sean Payton knew about it, and contributed to the bounty. His punishment is just. He, as the man in charge of the men on the field, should have stopped it, and he didn’t. The lying is one of the major things in this penalty. Either way you look at it, the players are going to be getting sued by the other players because of this now too. It will get worse very soon.

  61. situsavaisprier says: Apr 5, 2012 5:26 PM

    Not because I’m a Giants fan, but really what a couple of Giants said is noweher near what plenty of Saints, as well as Coaches, did and tried to do. Don’t get me wrong, as soon as I heard what Wiliams and Thomas said I didn’t like it. Still, it’s minor compared to the Saints Bounty case. Also, Michael Boley said the Giants never sought out to injure Kyle Williams. Really no one knows.

  62. edavidberg says: Apr 5, 2012 5:29 PM

    There is a difference between the Giants and the Saints. The Giants toed the line, the Saints strutted over it.

    There is no evidence the Giants were trying to injure Williams or were told to hit him illegally. They were likely told to target him because he was obviously more likely to be gun shy and fumble prone. Hence, go for the big hit over the form tackle.

    Williams clearly was inciting his players to hurt the opposition. And to intentionally commit blows to the head which are against the rule.

    Obviously, the comments by the Giants are phrased in a disturbing way … but I don’t believe there is any hard evidence they crossed the line whereas Greg Williams went well over it yet again.

  63. jumpman23j says: Apr 5, 2012 5:33 PM

    Don’t worry the niners will get revenge on the G-Men this season in San Francisco with the help of some former giants as well. Can’t Wait!!!

  64. r8rsfan says: Apr 5, 2012 5:35 PM

    Only band geeks, lawyers and clergymen are bothered by this. Anyone who’s put on the pads knows this is part of the game. Winning is all that matters when the whistle blows, and if there’s opportunity to improve your chances you take advantage. I’m pretty sure Siragusa got some love when he pile drove Gannon in the AFC playoffs. And if I’m a Raven’s fan at that moment I’m pumped. The biggest target in the NFL next season is Peyton’s neck. Reality check.

  65. thcnote says: Apr 5, 2012 5:40 PM

    Go ahead and sign Williams up for the lawsuit against the league even though he knows right now what a mistake it is to keep playing.

  66. sonoco says: Apr 5, 2012 5:48 PM

    I agree with the sentiment that it’s perfectly ok to single out the stupid few who were suspected, warned, then tried to cover-up, then were caught after doing nothing to change their behavior. If you place the Gregg Williams audio from barely two months ago in the timeline context of an on-going two plus year investigation by NFL Security it’s clear that Gregg “Dr. Heat” Williams guy is an arrogant scumbag who should be “Pete Rosed”. Payton’s lucky to not suffer the same fate.

  67. imbetterthanyou says: Apr 5, 2012 5:49 PM

    Saints – “Go for the head, etc, etc, etc ”

    Giants – “Hit him hard”

    HUGE difference. I suppose they should have just said, try and slap the ball, but don’t hit him…although that worked.

    Someone also mentioned when the Giants knocked out 7 qbs one year…take a look at all the knockout hits…all solid, clean tackles. Do some homework before making ignorant comments.

    Comparing the Giants to the Saints Bounty is just utterly ridiculous…There is clear, documented evidence of the Saints bounty program and well, nothing but a couple Giants special teamers saying hit someone hard…

  68. macwomack says: Apr 5, 2012 5:54 PM

    Investigate the Giants now…!!!!!!

    I hate the Giants with the heat of a thousand suns!

    I hate them more than the cowboys. Mara is a little baby — he wants to punish the Redskins for failing to engage in illegal collusion.

    Well I want his team investigated for illegal bounties!

  69. drgreenstreak says: Apr 5, 2012 5:56 PM

    mulletcork says… Hey man, it’s called strategy. If a guy has a head you go for it. If the guy has a knee, you go for it. That’s how the game is played brother.
    ————————————————————–

    So, where do you hit a guy with no brain?

    answer: In his mullet

    Who ya callin’ brother? That’s an instant sign of having watched far too much WWE or some Mad Dog fixation. We’re talking about a professional sport, Chief.

    put a cork in it…

  70. magnumpei says: Apr 5, 2012 6:00 PM

    All defensive coaches probably talk like that. Just because it wasn’t taped that doesn’t mean it wasn’t said.

  71. gb4mn0 says: Apr 5, 2012 6:16 PM

    I guess I’ll have to remain the lone voice in the wilderness shouting out praises for Williams and the Saints defense doing their part in keeping the completely undeserving vikequeefs and their noodle brained nimrod fans from the opportunity of celebrating a Lombardi.

  72. mark0226 says: Apr 5, 2012 6:25 PM

    Sportsmentary is mixing up statements from fans and the teams. During Spygate, Patriots fans DID frequently say that other teams do it too. Belichick made a statement very similar to the statement Sean Payton made. “I apologize and I take full responsibility.” What the fans state and what the teams or coaches state are two different things.

    The only difference is the appeals.

  73. pedrovillegas21 says: Apr 5, 2012 6:44 PM

    Stop making it mandatory for a team to put out an injury report, what’s the point? And the Saints had REWARDS for putting a player out of the game the Giants just wanted to hit him so they could WIN the game, injuries are always targeted, the difference is the Saints got a profit out it, take your punishment and stop whining about it

  74. mmcdan133 says: Apr 5, 2012 6:51 PM

    Anyone else notice that it was the 49ers who were knocking people out in that game? Anyone see the hit around the goal line on Pierre Thomas? That was one of three head injuries the Saints offense suffered in that game.

    What conclusion can you draw from that information? The only conclusion is that the 49ers got the exact same speech in their locker room. That’s football.

  75. weaponx73 says: Apr 5, 2012 7:06 PM

    God you crying little girls will grasp at any straw you see to try and hate on the Giants. You point to some quote, that no one even blinked an eye at when it was first reported, to blame the Giants for having bounties. Then you cry about them faking an injury, in a week three game no less, like it is some secret way to instantly win a game. And every last one of you has seen your team do it, so don’t lie. Oh and how we supposedly purposely put 12 men on the field to win the super bowl. Even though, you know, the Pats had several downs to try and score after that.

    Listen I am sorry that your teams spent tons of money in free agency only to have the Giants go on an ass kickin’ tour during the playoffs and deny your “much more deserving” team a Lombardi trophy. But have some pride and man up. All your crying does is make Giants fans smile.

  76. flsnupe says: Apr 5, 2012 7:13 PM

    This is not a Giant issue, really!

  77. countyk66ers says: Apr 5, 2012 7:13 PM

    Just think Charles Johnson body slammed Jim McMahon for free just to make Coach Gregg smile!

  78. tdk24 says: Apr 5, 2012 7:14 PM

    “What hits home even harder now is the possibility, if not likelihood, that Jacquain Williams and Devin Thomas didn’t come up with the importance of hitting Kyle Williams in the head on their own. In nearly a dozen years of covering the NFL, one thing I’ve learned is that most of the things the players say publicly trace back to something a member of the coaching staff told them.”

    Of course it comes from the coaches. These players are too stupid to come up with this stuff on their own. It shows how stupid they really are when they open their mouths and spew this stuff that is getting the coaches in trouble. Let’s face it, this stuff has been going on for a long long long time. Only in the past, the players were smart enough to know to keep their mouths shut. Now, they just want the attention, and don’t care how they get it, even if it comes back to bite them.

  79. patsfan22 says: Apr 5, 2012 7:32 PM

    I think the Giants should be stripped of their superbowl title and Eli Manning should be banned for life.

    Sincerely,

    A biased pats fan still in depression :(

  80. zaggs says: Apr 5, 2012 7:38 PM

    “sfsaintsfan says: Apr 5, 2012 5:05 PM
    Again, the Saints talked about it and didn’t do it.
    The Giants talked about it and actually did it.
    New Orleans Saints get punishment.
    New York Giants get a pass.
    NFL Headquarters is in New York City.”

    For the idiots who score a 4 on the wonderlick like sfsaintsfan, go to youtube, search Kyle Williams NFC, and watch the one for the NFC championship game. Williams fumbles twice with no one around him. His third was an arm slap. Watch that video and tell me what the Giants actually “did”!

  81. tyreeshelmet says: Apr 5, 2012 8:00 PM

    A coach saying “hey the guy returning kicks has had some issues with concussions and is not the kick returner normally so be aware of a mistake if he’s rattled” is a hell of a lot different than saying lets take out his acl or hit his head. This would hold some merit if the play in question were not a muff and great strip of a ball with sat a jarring blow to the head.

  82. uhhuhyup22 says: Apr 5, 2012 8:20 PM

    Giants did nothing illegal, AT ALL! No allegations of players being paid. It is absolutely legal to target opponents injuries and is done in EVERY nfl game. You can’t give financial incentives to do it.

    The saints got caught doing something they were specifically told not to do several times and then lied about.

    Personally I think Sean Payton should have gotten two games, no draft picks taken, no assistants suspended. Papa Roger is making the saints the goat big time, don’t cry about other teams, cry about the severity.

  83. jcjets says: Apr 5, 2012 8:25 PM

    so are you accusing the giant defensive coaches of telling the players to hit the 49ers punter in the head? if you are, you should just come out and say it. But if you are, you’ve given no evidence to back up your claim/insinuation..

  84. bigbluefan1 says: Apr 5, 2012 8:47 PM

    jumpman23j says:
    Apr 5, 2012 5:33 PM
    Don’t worry the niners will get revenge on the G-Men this season in San Francisco with the help of some former giants as well. Can’t Wait!!!

    _______________

    Revenge its a regular season game who cares remember the Giants were 9-7 and they won when it counted
    As for Former Giants players on the 49ers the only reason that they are playing in SF is the Giants did not want them any more so in other words your picked in the Giants dumpster
    anyone who thinks there team got better after signing manningham an Jacobs does not think much of there team

  85. sfsaintsfan says: Apr 5, 2012 9:03 PM

    Zaggs, you genius, it is Wonderlic not wonderlick. I guess you would have scored a 3 on the test…..

    Giants targeted Kyle Williams throughout the game, he fumbled without being hit because his brain was scrambled.

    I don’t think the Giants really did anything wrong on the field, but neither did the Saints.

    Look at the statistics from the last three years.

    ON THE FIELD, the Saints were nowhere near the top of the league when it came to ILLEGAL hits. Some individual players had more fines than the Saints as a team.

    One bad hit against Favre is what set this whole thing off. The Saints have been the victim of more game ending hits the last three years than they have dished out.

    I do believe the Saints should suffer some form of discipline from the league. Sean Payton, from what I have read, told Gregg Williams to cut it out and told his assistant, Joe Vitt to supervise Williams to ensure this type of foolishness was over. Williams didn’t stop, he probably knew he was not going to be back as an assistant with the Saints so he didn’t care. Payton should have been fined and maybe suspended for 2-4 games. As far as I know, no other coach has ever been suspended before in the history of the league.

  86. jcw000 says: Apr 5, 2012 9:04 PM

    Cheaters! Champs? Nope, Champs*

  87. WestCoastVet says: Apr 5, 2012 9:06 PM

    Yep, that’s right! Giants used bounties to get to their SB win! Asterisk next to their title as well as the Saints!

  88. taintedlombardis says: Apr 5, 2012 9:57 PM

    Without faking injuries, the giants don’t even make the playoffs.

  89. taintedlombardis says: Apr 5, 2012 10:03 PM

    Faking injuries got the giants into the playoffs. Faking injuries to slow down the Rams is kick in the nuts worthy. I’m pretty sure faking injuries violates “the competetive spirit of the game”. I expecy Mara’s a.k.a. Billy Madison’s team to be punished accordingly…

  90. broncobrewer says: Apr 5, 2012 11:06 PM

    So there is proof of other teams doing it. Just don’t forget about this article Mike.

  91. kgun80 says: Apr 5, 2012 11:47 PM

    I just listened to the full audio for the first time.. That’s disgusting! Greg Williams should never be allowed in the NFL again.. I now agree with The Commishs decision to suspend Payton. This is over the line. This is an intense physical sport but that trying to injure someone in a way that can ruin someones future inside and outside of football?? Disgusting

  92. bencoates57 says: Apr 6, 2012 12:01 AM

    I have already placed an asterisk on that Giants Super Bowl.

  93. zaggs says: Apr 6, 2012 12:15 AM

    “sfsaintsfan says: Apr 5, 2012 9:03 PM

    Giants targeted Kyle Williams throughout the game, he fumbled without being hit because his brain was scrambled.”

    Check the video. Kyle Williams was hardly touched. Heck even on the punt returns he didn’t fumble he went down without being touched. There was no “targeting”, if there was give us one example where he was hit hard. He had no catches so it wasn’t on a tackle, and again the biggest hit he got on a fumble was an arm slap. One punt return Williams has to run up to catch the ball so far he dives to catch it. The Wil Blackmon could have laid a monster hit on him there, except he didn’t. On the end round fumble Osi could have laid a smack on him, he didn’t. Another punt return Williams falls down on his own and Devin Thomas could have laid a lick on him, he didn’t.
    If Williams’s brain was scrambled, its because it happened against the Saints and San Fran should not have played him in the Championship game.

  94. bspurloc says: Apr 6, 2012 12:29 AM

    .
    keep trying to find excuses for losing to the Giants….

    You couldnt get elis head no matter how much he went down u lost.

    Guess who won the super bowl? GIANTS go giants!

  95. tuckyous says: Apr 6, 2012 1:48 AM

    It’s pathetic seeing you anti-Giants fans grasping at straws, waiting for the chance to try and slander the SB Champs because your teams suck.

    Re-watch that game before you start running your mouths. Or try rooting for better teams. And to the Pats fans, putting pressure and hits on Brady all game isn’t tantamount to putting bounties on him.

  96. kappy32 says: Apr 6, 2012 2:08 AM

    Tainted Super Bowl? Cheating? Scumbags? Seriously people, you need to compare the two. The Saints players & coaches put together a pot of money where players were given a financial incentive to injure other players. They were caught, told to stop, kept it going, then proceeded to lie about it when they were caught red handed. What Devin Thomas is saying is nothing new. It is common practice that if a guy is injured & has a weakness, you attack that weakness. If a player has a bum knee, you put a helmet or shoulder to that knee when he comes around the corner or up the middle. Williams’ concussion history was common knowledge & if you hit him good, there was a chance he wouldn’t play to his full potential. Is it right that Giants’ players were targeting Williams’ head? Absolutely not. However, was Tyler Sash given a payout from Justin Tuck & Perry Fewell when he put that nasty hit on Williams? Nope. Comparing the Giants & the Saints is like comparing potatoes & bananas. The Giants did NOT have a multi-year bounty program; Tisch & Mara were not told by Mr. Roger to have the team immediately cease & decist the bounty program; Coughlin & Fewell didn’t intentionally ignore the cease & decist order from Mara & Tisch; and most importantly, Tom Coughlin didn’t lie like a snake & pretend he had no clue what was going on when caught red handed as Payton did. The Saints coaches & players weren’t punished as much for having a bounty program as much as they were for not stopping when told to then lie about it when caught again. Had Payton & Williams stopped the program when they were told to, neither would be suspended today & the whole thing would’ve been swept under the rug. What Devin Thomas was speaking about is common practice in every level of football. If a guy has an injury, you target that injury; end of story. It was more the stupidity of the Saints & their coaches that got them in this situation than anything else. Cry about the Giants all you want, and just like the Saints, you’ll never take away their Super Bowls. More importantly, no matter what is said & done, as long as guys play with injuries, the opposing players will continue to key on those injuries in an attempt to get that player out of the game. If you don’t like it, go watch soccer or tennis.

  97. musicman495 says: Apr 6, 2012 2:44 AM

    Why should the league investigate other teams? They were given evidence of the Saints bounty program and investigated it. They shouldn’t have to investigate all the other teams before they punish the Saints. If the Saints weren’t so arrogant they would have stopped the bounty program when they were warned to the first time. Instead, they continued the program, lied and covered it up.
    ———————————
    There have already been statements – newspaper op-eds, for crying out loud – from players who played for Williams on other teams with similar programs. That sounds like reason to investigate to me.

    In fact, it is likely that the league DID investigate, did not like what it found, and is covering it up. You really think those 50,000 pages of evidence were all about Brett Favre’s ankle?

  98. wheeln69 says: Apr 6, 2012 7:25 AM

    Goodell – “the NFL has decided against investigating these claims against the Giants. John Mara and I spoke at length about it and I’m convinced, that because he chairs the Competition Committee, I believe every word that comes out of his mouth, right John?”…lolololololol!

    Added Goodell “and John swears no faking of injuries ever occurred…”{wink, wink}

  99. griblets says: Apr 6, 2012 7:43 AM

    r8rsfan says:

    “Only band geeks, lawyers and clergymen are bothered by this. Anyone who’s put on the pads knows this is part of the game.”

    ————————————-

    I am none of the above. I have played competitive sports my entire life and I am bothered by this.

    There was a time in this country that slavery was accepted and a common practice, but that didn’t make it right.

    You play to win the games, not maim your peers. Intentionally trying to injure opponents is barbaric and disgusting.

  100. kevishu says: Apr 6, 2012 11:20 AM

    So how does the notion that this goes on in other locker rooms as well mean that this is all okay? Its still wrong. If you cant win games against the opponents starters and have to force em out with injuries, not only are you admitting you’re not as good of a team, but you’re cheating to try to level the playing field. Not to mention destroying the integrity and sportsmanship of the game.

  101. bspurloc says: Apr 6, 2012 3:28 PM

    .
    it is funny how much giant hating be going on…

    They totally sucked this year 9-6 but guess what?

    NOBODY beat them when it mattered not even terrific tom…. not even the refs were able to force a loss on them and they tried very hard

    Hey did u see the game they played against the niners when Jacquian Williams went right for Kyle Williams head but MISSED and directly hit the ball out of his hands for a niner LOSS?

    RECAP

    Instead, the game turned when the Giants’ Jacquian Williams knocked the ball out of the hands of 49ers returner Kyle Williams on a punt in overtime, and Devin Thomas dived on the ball at the San Francisco 26. Ahmad Bradshaw coolly ran the ball in closer for Tynes, and his kick won it

  102. youdownwithjpp says: Apr 9, 2012 9:02 AM

    biggerballz says:
    Apr 5, 2012 3:40 PM
    I hope that karma gets the players who intend to hurt others back.
    —————————————-

    You do realize that this is football. Every defensive player is intending to hurt others.

    The question at hand is whether the attacks are planned and coordinated to attack “below the belt”, so to speak.

    Are players purposely exploiting another’s injury or tendency for injury or concussion.

  103. cantgetenoughwp says: Apr 9, 2012 12:29 PM

    If what the Giants players said was a problem why didn’t Pamprin say anything about it then?

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!