NFLPA says NFL still hasn’t produced “detailed evidence” of “pay-to-injure” scheme

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The NFLPA has addressed the question of whether it was aware of the Gregg Williams audio before it went public with a statement acknowledging that, indeed, it was.

‘The NFLPA was aware of the existence of the Gregg Williams audio prior to its release,” the union claims in a statement.  “We learned of the tape as part of our effort to obtain any and all information related to an alleged pay-to-injure scheme.  We had no control of the content and did not make a determination on the method of its release.  To date, the NFL has not provided the NFLPA with detailed evidence of the existence of such a program.”

The most intriguing part of the statement comes at the end.  The NFLPA continues to insist that the NFL “has not provided the NFLPA with detailed evidence of the existence of [a pay-to-injure] program.”

It doesn’t necessarily mean such evidence doesn’t exist, especially in light of the Williams audio.  It could mean that, if such evidence does exist, the NFL hasn’t given it to the NFLPA.

It also could mean that the NFL has produced evidence that it believes to prove the existence of a “pay-to-injure” program, but that the NFLPA isn’t buying it.

The union, after initially suggesting that coaches coerced players to participate in the program, apparently is attempting to engineer a defense based on the notion that there’s no connection between the “pay-to-injure” program and any actual injury inflicted by players for money.  That, basically, the coaching staff tried to induce players to inflict injury on opposing players, but that the players either chose not to do so, or were unable to do so.

It won’t be an easy sell, especially in light of the way the Saints defense battered quarterback Brett Favre during the 2009 NFC title game, including at least one illegal hit that was flagged — and at least one that was missed.

Of course, this doesn’t change the fact that players apparently contributed to the pool that was intended to go to players who injured members of the opposing offense, and that actually went to defensive players who made big plays.  Even without the injury aspect, giving money to and receiving money from this off-the-books fund violates the rules.

That said, the concept of pay-to-injure, as the NFLPA calls it, has a much more sinister feel, and it’s the kind of thing that could catch the attention of state or federal authorities.  If the NFLPA can successfully strip that dynamic away from these circumstances, it becomes much harder to suspend players.  Or to prosecute them.

76 responses to “NFLPA says NFL still hasn’t produced “detailed evidence” of “pay-to-injure” scheme

  1. Union dues paid by the many (those that were also targets) being spent to cover up the dues paid by the few (those that got the benefits to injure).

    Great example of the benefits of unions!

  2. The NFLPA wants to have it both ways here — protect the players, but avoid penalties to those players participating in programs designed to hurt other players — that won’t work without them looking like two-faced turds.

  3. There wasn’t a “pay to injure” because no one was paid for injuring anyone. Talk, or alleged “plans” constitute a conspiracy, not results. So annoying to keep reading “players were paid to injure”…if no one got injured then how exactly were they paid to injure?

    In other news, “at least one illegal hit that was flagged — and at least one that was missed” describes roughly every football game ever played at any level…

    – Go Seahawks! (even if we have ridiculous uniforms)

  4. mvp43 says:
    Apr 16, 2012 3:39 PM
    This is exactly why I hate unions….
    ————————————————-
    That’s right on…the “stand behind your members regardless of the situation” mentality is simply ridiculous. Sure, never mind the fact that these few members were trying to cause harm to the rest of your members…how about standing up for the victims. The union is like a sleazy defense attorney.

    And how many times will the point have to be made that it’s irrelevant whether or not anybody was definitively hurt as a result of this program. It was established and intended to cause bodily harm for payment, directives were issued, and funds made available to validate them. If you’re involved in an assassination plot that gets foiled, your butt is still going to jail! If you didn’t enter the bank during the robbery, but sat in the backseat of the getaway car, your butt is going to jail!

  5. Can’t the union see both sides of this issue? They’re so concerned with the precedent that will be set by the coming player suspension that they can’t seem to see that these bounties targeted other union members.

  6. The union will take the position that anything less than a confession by one of its members that he intentionally hurt an opposing player and then collected money is adequate proof. If there is no proof that there was a bounty system in the NFL then why did Williams accept his punishment without appeal? The NFLPA should be working on mitigation of culpability rather than denying that anything took place or the proof isn’t adequate.

    The union is taking a very short sighted approach to this issue and its responsibility. The goal of protecting all players from injury should take precedence over making certain that none of its members receive any punishment in this case. The union does a disservice to a large number of its members by not concentrating on safety and it threatens its credibility with the general public.

  7. Number of players who suffered game-ending injuries as a result of illegal hits from the Saints defense in the 2009-2012 seasons:

    ZERO.

  8. So since they haven’t been given evidence of the existence of the program, I’m assuming that also means no evidence of “real existence?” That must have been what Drew Brees was getting at! Glad Drew and the NFLPA are aligned in this matter – neither has any incentive to stretch the truth here, right? RIGHT? What a joke.

  9. The NFLPA is using the pay-to-injure program wording because they do not dispute that the Saints players were involved in a pay-for-performance program. Scott Fujita openly admits to giving other players money for fumbles and big plays. This part is not in dispute. What is in dispute, and the NFL apparently has not provided any evidence, that the players were involved in a pay-to-INJURE program.

    Yes, pay-for-performance programs are against the rules, but the NFL came down hard on the Saints organization because of the INJURY element and for the cover up.

    While the Saints defense hit Favre hard and on multiple occasions, they didn’t specifically go after his head or ACL. The NFL reviewed the hits in that game and found that the majority of the hits on him were legal hard hits within the rules. Late hits are a timing thing. Some times you just can’t stop the momentum. Happens with or without bounties. The one hit, that was flagged, after a hand-off, I thought should not have been flagged because Favre became a blocker. Had the RB run to the right instead of the left, Favre could have blocked the defensive end to spring the RB. Instead, the DE put the blocker (Favre) on the ground.

    The hi-lo hit, where he received the ankle injury, happens often when defensive linemen are fighting offensive linemen. Defensive linemen are being blocked and knocked around and falling, but still want to hit/tackle the QB. It doesn’t specifically mean (although it could) that he was trying to hit him low. It just seems in that case, the defense was falling and that was the result. If they were specifically targeting his legs, there were many other opportunities to go directly for the legs, but they did not.

    The Warner hit was a legal blind side hit. While one could argue that it was unnecessary, Hines Ward made a career from those types of hits. Then again, he is known as a dirty player because of those hits.

  10. Wait, so the union is saying that the Saints players didn’t yell; “Pay Me My Money!!!!” after hitting Brett Favre illegally, causing severe injury, in the NFC Title Game… like the video shows clearly?

  11. Just the initial response of the Payton, Vitt statements released in March “taking full responsibility” is a confession of it’s existence.
    The motives of the NFLPA of “giving it a name” is just posturing for their defense.

  12. The “union” is foolish if they are trying to get the court of public (or any other court’s) opinion to believe there is no evidence that the bounty system happened in New Orleans. Who cares if the NFL gives them all their evidence (and it is somewhat surprising the NFL didn’t yet inadvertently destroy anything!). You have the head coach admitting to it, you have the coach that did it admit to it, you have players admitting to it.

    Sounds like there is evidence it happened.

    What does it matter if the NFL has turned over what it has? They may do so in the future, but the “union’s” statement is ridiculous.

  13. What the hell do they want? RECEIPTS for something that was being done under the table? This whole thing is ridiculous – suspend them all 2 games, get it over with and move on.

  14. zn0rseman says: Apr 16, 2012 4:04 PM

    Wait, so the union is saying that the Saints players didn’t yell; “Pay Me My Money!!!!” after hitting Brett Favre illegally, causing severe injury, in the NFC Title Game… like the video shows clearly?

    ——————————————————————-

    A. Only one player supposedly said that;
    B. Favre never missed a down
    C. The hit can only be considered “illegal” if you ignore the fact the “low” player was blocked in the back on the way to the QB
    D. Without a direct link to the payout in terms of paper trail or other documentation that is circumstantial evidence at best.

    If the NFL supposedly has 50,000 pages of evidence, why are they so unwilling to release any of it to the union, or for public consumption.

  15. i dont know why the nflpa hasnt just simply contacted pft for their evidence. everybody here knows that and how dare you say” pay- to- injure “, it was a malicious autrocity of paying to cripple (right?).

  16. linvillegorge says: Apr 16, 2012 3:54 PM

    Can’t the union see both sides of this issue? They’re so concerned with the precedent that will be set by the coming player suspension that they can’t seem to see that these bounties targeted other union members.

    ——————————————————————

    They can’t see that the supposed bounties targeted anybody because they have no evidence to show that it did. None, zero, zilch.

  17. NFLPA missing two important facts. (1)they don’t necessarily have to get the detailed facts before any disciplinary action is given and (2) they also equally (maybe even more-so on morale grounds)represent the players that were illegally targeted.

  18. cliffordc05 says:
    Apr 16, 2012 3:54 PM
    The union is taking a very short sighted approach to this issue and its responsibility.
    ————————————————–
    Some irresponsible and narrow focus they took when negotiating the CBA, I guess we should get used to this sort of thing.

  19. mark0226 says:
    Apr 16, 2012 3:58 PM

    The NFL reviewed the hits in that game and found that the majority of the hits on him were legal hard hits within the rules.
    _______

    Is that why Bobby McCray was fined $20,000, Anthony Hargrove was fined $5,000 and another player was fined $5,000 as well. Thats $40,000 worth of fines for one game and yet you say the NFL reviewed the hits and said they were all fine?

  20. It doesn’t border on idiocy, it embodies the meaning of the term! BTW, quit whining about the NFCCG…you hired your arch nemesis (an aging and frequently injured player) to QB a desperate team and you lost the game to a better team…get the hell over it! You know how silly you looked by even having Favre come to Whinesota…? What a desperate bunch of silly purple horn hat wearing goons! And now, you’re left with a program in shambles with no chance of contention and a significant potential of losing the team all together. Seriously, quit whining about the title game…Saints were hungrier!

  21. Where’s the evidence?
    Gregg Williams public confession
    2) Sean Payton public Confession
    3) Joe Vitt public confession
    4). Vilm’s $10,000.00 bounty offer
    5) Raceteer boy’s 5,000.00 e-mail
    6) Gregg Williams ACL tape. (Admissable I’n a CIVIL Court of Law)
    50,000 pages of unkown documentation that Goodell is TRYING to keep a LID ON to prevent this thing from BLOWING up on the ENTIRE league and players alike. I’ve said before, this IS BIG MONEY and PEOPLE ARE WATCHING AND LISTENING. Keep PUSHING it and it will make the Pete Rose scandal a serenade it will only take ONE former OR current player to sign an affidavit to blow the lid off. Attorneys, senate, congress, DA’s, federal agencies. They’re already looking AND listening. It’s BIG $$$$$ boys, MULTI, Multi Billions with a B And a whole lot of ink and notoriety. The stuff LEGENDS are made of. Use your heads. Saints, SHUT UP, take your tmrivial punishments and SHUT UP. For EVERYBODY’s good. Squeaky wheels get the GREASE. the NFLPA is already bringing I’n lawyers to advise these guys to SHUT up. Why? ANYTHING THEY SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST THEM. Lastly, Goodell is stalling cuz HE knows TIME is an attorneys BEST friend. Shut up already. Let it die down. Geeez

  22. Maybe the NFL should send the NFLPA videotape of the Giants players admitting they targeted San Fran wr because of his concussions. Oh wait, this is about the Saints….my bad!

    Carry on other 31 teams, as you were.

  23. LOL, I hate unions too but they have done nothing wrong yet. They have simply stated that the NFL has not provided detailed evidence. Much like courts, unions (and any organization responsible for many people) must operate on facts and evidence not grandiose, high horsed senses of justice.

    Owners/Coaches/GMs are not under the protection of the NFLPA, therefore, their admission has nothing to do with the suspension of players. Even had the Owner/Coaches/GMs it would still not qualify as “detailed evidence,” it would be closer to hearsay unless ACTUAL PLAYERS WHO WERE INVOLVED come out and admit SPECIFICALLY to being paid to injure.

    So far we have a group of coaches, a GM, and an owner who have admitted either to having knowledge of a “bounty” system. An alleged “rogue” coach orchestrating such a “bounty” system. The definiton of “bounty” is not LEGALLY clear. Paying-to-injure, SPECIFICALLY, has not been proven beyond the shadow of doubt (at least as far as the players go).

  24. I understand that the NFLPA has to get involved and that since the perpetrators of the “alleged” acts are due to be fined or suspended so they must defend them, but… C’mon… Really? We know the program existed. The Gregg Audio proves its “real existence”… By the way, if you only listened to the 7 minute version they you missed the pay-offs. Get real 5 remaining nieve fans and lone Seahawks fan (?). Whether you actually accomplished your goal is irrelevant to the conversation and shame on you for using such an unstable argument to base your ignorance. Time to move past this and the only “real” way to do that is to just admit it, take your lumps and move on. 🙂

  25. @zn0rseman says: Apr 16, 2012 4:04 PM

    Wait, so the union is saying that the Saints players didn’t yell; “Pay Me My Money!!!!” after hitting Brett Favre illegally, causing severe injury, in the NFC Title Game… like the video shows clearly?
    ————————–

    Severe? He sprained his ankle and didn’t miss ONE PLAY. You Vikes fans say the silliest things when you’re mad! 🙂

  26. How ANYBODY can deny the existance of the Saint’s “bounty” program after the Greg Williams audio tape is beyond ridiculous ….. it’s simply ignorant.

  27. Whether you actually accomplished your goal is irrelevant to the conversation

    —————————————————————-

    No, it’s not, because we’re talking about punishment of individual players. The program may have existed under Williams’ influence (and he admits it) but if no player actually received payments for injuries afflicted under such system, then there is no evidence that the players actually participated.

    C’mon, this is grade school logic.

  28. Saints should get punished for Childtard having 12 men in the huddle and Adrian Fumbleson coughing the ball up 4 times too! Surely those things had no bearing on the outcome of the game right? Let’s not even bring up the classic Favre pick either…because that clearly had nothing to do with the outcome…

  29. pftcensorssuck says: Apr 16, 2012 4:50 PM

    How ANYBODY can deny the existance of the Saint’s “bounty” program after the Greg Williams audio tape is beyond ridiculous ….. it’s simply ignorant.
    ——————————————-
    As LaVar Arringon among others have said, the tape shows nothing but someone talking. Where are the illegal hits that supposedly followed?

    All this baloney over one game, one player, two hits, over three years.

  30. No evidence? Really? I guess those tapes don’t count for anything, huh?

    This is why unions are losing credibility in this nation. They don’t give a damn about the truth.

    Anyways, someone at the NFLPA forgot to tell Roger Goodell about this. If the NFLPA thinks the players are going to get off scot-free after Williams and Payton got hammered so hard, they’re delusional.

  31. sitbackandwatch says:Apr 16, 2012 4:34 PM

    Maybe the NFL should send the NFLPA videotape of the Giants players admitting they targeted San Fran wr because of his concussions. Oh wait, this is about the Saints….my bad!

    Carry on other 31 teams, as you were.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    A very valid point, I’ve been wondering if the Saints are just the ‘example’ or if there’s an avalanche yet to come. After all, several players from different teams have admitted the existence of programs. Wonder if this is just the tip of the iceburg.

  32. ban williams for life
    ban payton for life
    ban loomis for life
    ban vitt for life
    1-3 yr suspensions for all players involved
    loss of 3 first round picks (one for each yr)
    loss of 30 million in salary cap for 3 years (10 per\yr)

    * – on tainted superbowl

  33. What the NFLPA is doing is easier to understand if you remember that the most important thing to the union is not protecting it’s players, it’s protecting the union.

  34. To all of the attorneys here, tell me this; If I offered (hypothetically) anyone and everyone here on the PFT team $10,000 to make sure say De Maurice cannot make the union meeting tonight, is that illegal?

    Please let me know.

  35. If money changed hands, even if no actual injury took place, or if a direct connection cannot be made between the “contract” that was implied, by the exchange of money for an act, one of the specific terms of assault is “Attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury”. Seems to me that some smart attorney or prosecutor is going to find a way to link the players to civil or criminal charges. I hope to see some of the Saints players visit the Vikings this year.

  36. The NFL should just cite the comments section on this website. It’s full of “evidence”.

  37. This isn’t exactly a court of criminal law here. You can’t pull the “glove don’t fit” defense. The NFL should only be required to provide enough evidence that it is reasonably certain that bounties were being offered and paid.

    We’re already at that stage here. And keep in mind, it is grossly against the CBA to pay players for positive things like an interception or fumble return.

    The Williams audio drives home clear what is going on here. He repeatedly speaks to the notion that the Saints don’t apologize for how they play. That the players in that room on that team are willing to do nasty things to win. He rubs his fingers together in reference to anyone who can hit Alex Smith illegally on the chin. He talks about hitting guys in the head under piles.

    Seriously case closed. NFLPA has to try to defend their players no matter what because that is what they are there for but at this point we need to let this story begin to go to bed. Saints are a disgraceful organization that supports their cheating coaches and should be viewed as such while the rest of the NFL moves on.

  38. The NFL should only be required to provide enough evidence that it is reasonably certain that bounties were being offered and paid.

    ——————————————————————–

    Yet, they have not produced one single shred of evidence, despite the supposed 50,000 pages of documentation at their disposal.

    You can talk about how evil and dirty you think the Saints are until the cows come home, but the lack of evidence speaks for itself.

  39. cwmorga says:
    Apr 16, 2012 4:45 PM
    @zn0rseman says: Apr 16, 2012 4:04 PM

    Wait, so the union is saying that the Saints players didn’t yell; “Pay Me My Money!!!!” after hitting Brett Favre illegally, causing severe injury, in the NFC Title Game… like the video shows clearly?
    ————————–

    Severe? He sprained his ankle and didn’t miss ONE PLAY. You Vikes fans say the silliest things when you’re mad!

    ————————

    He’s not called the “Ironman” in the NFL for no reason. He might have been able to keep playing but if you saw the pics of his ankle later after the game, you’d be singing a different tune. Did it knock him out? No. But to say it didn’t affect his play is asinine.

  40. There’s also no evidence of steroid use in baseball in the 1990’s

    Regards,
    Bud Selig

  41. mdd913 says:
    Apr 16, 2012 3:58 PM
    Number of players who suffered game-ending injuries as a result of illegal hits from the Saints defense in the 2009-2012 seasons:

    ZERO. —————————————————————————————————————————————————- so what your saying is the saints failed at it so why is everyone so upset? my 4 year old says he innocent all the time, even when caught red handed. I can only hope he learns before he becomes an adult unlike the people who run the saints organization. oh and for those ragging on the union? just because they say that they haven’t been sent any pure evidence yet doesn’t mean anything other than they haven’t received any evidence yet? smh

  42. LMAO. It keeps getting better. There were admissions you jackholes. Admissions mean it DID HAPPEN. If you want evidence watch the replays of some of the games. Listen to some of the player’s audios. How much more evidence do you need to finally say, “there was evidence”? WOW.

  43. moagecu….
    $20,000 + $5,000 +$5,000 =$40,000
    .. That’s good
    But let’s assume your numbers are correct and let’s compare that to just one player on the Steelers team…
    Hummm … Compare and contrast

  44. Good point. Now I think I’m going to go shove a rabbit up my a$$ and poop out some magic while running around my yard naked yelling ” This is Reality!”. Which coincidentally makes just as much sense. What the fudge is you stupid! No wait, they think the rest of us are. Corrupt to the core. Go fly a kite.

  45. so what your saying is the saints failed at it so why is everyone so upset?

    ——————————————————————-

    I’m saying that because no one ever received a payment for injuring another player to knock them out of the game (they couldn’t have, because there is documented evidence that no such knockouts happened) then there is insufficient evidence to prove that the players actually participated in the program.

    Unless you want to go all thought police on people, which I would assume most would agree is going too far.

  46. mikev65 says: Apr 16, 2012 6:23 PM

    MDD, get a clue, how about the admission of the acts by the coach’s??? Are you really that ignorant??

    ——————————————————————

    No, I’m not ignorant. Far from it. I guarantee I know way more about the actual facts of this case than you do.

    Why should the NFL (Goodell) be able to pronounce unprecedented disciplinary measures without the evidence to back it up?

    Show the evidence that proves all of this happened as the NFL claims it did, and every Saints fan in the world will accept the punishment as just.

  47. If you were about to be convicted of a crime and go to jail for a year, would you not want to see the evidence against you?

    Instead, we are supposed to believe the evidence just exists….from one guy who is acting as judge, jury, executioner and appeals court.

    Something stinks about this whole case, but it sure as hell isn’t the accused asking to see the evidence.

  48. moagecu says: Apr 16, 2012 4:27 PM

    Is that why Bobby McCray was fined $20,000, Anthony Hargrove was fined $5,000 and another player was fined $5,000 as well. Thats $40,000 worth of fines for one game and yet you say the NFL reviewed the hits and said they were all fine?


    Good point, but I didn’t say ALL were fine. I said the majority were legal hits or flagged properly in the game. The low hit will always be fined, regardless of intent. This one was not flagged, but should have been. I think the other one McCray was fined for was the hit when Favre was a blocker, which was flagged.

    I seem to recall that Brett Favre was fined $10K in 2009. Does that mean he had a bounty on someone?

    But what you are saying is that the Saints players incurred $40K in fines in order to receive $1500 or maybe $10K in bounties? Doesn’t make sense, which leads me to believe the bounties are meant to promote legal big plays and not specifically to injure, cripple, or maim. Clearly players understand that any intentional illegal hits will be fined by the NFL and the fine will be larger than the bounty.

  49. kodakinvegas says:

    Where’s the evidence?
    Gregg Williams public confession
    2) Sean Payton public Confession
    3) Joe Vitt public confession

    =====
    None of the ‘public confessions’ have admitted to a pay-to-injure scheme. NONE, NOT ONE! Please read the title of the article again and again until you comprehend what is being said.

  50. If I were a player not involved in this situation, I’d drop the NFLPA like a bad habit after this. The NFLPA should be above all an organization that looks at for the health of all its members. Not the pocketbooks for a few.

  51. mdd, actually you are ignorant.

    And your guarantee isn’t worth anything. Having read your comments, I can say with certainty that you have no more information than anybody else here.

    Thanks though for the entertaining blather.

  52. Surprise surprise, the NFLPA could personally witness a player filling out a confession and signing in his own blood and would still say it wasn’t enough. Denying anything negative about players is all they are about…oh, and shoving as many fan dollars in their pockets as they can carry.

  53. They had a lot of cheap shots against Favre n he still lit them up,shame AP couldn’t hold onto the ball. Should have an asterisk,but Vikings n other defenses should of retaliated

  54. guppies66 says: Apr 16, 2012 8:25 PM

    mdd, actually you are ignorant.

    And your guarantee isn’t worth anything. Having read your comments, I can say with certainty that you have no more information than anybody else here.

    Thanks though for the entertaining blather.

    ——————————————————————–

    Actually, I’m not….but thanks for confirming that you are clueless about this matter and most things in general.

    Now piss off.

  55. I’m sick and tired of the championship game against the Vikings being used as proof of a bounty system (yes, we all know there was one…let’s move on). Were there bad hits against Favre? Absolutely, and the Saints were penalized and fined for them, but the majority of hits were legal. And as far as the D going after him so heavy, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO? they were one game from their first super bowl ever, and they were facing a QB that EVERYONE knew was coming into the game already injured. Was it right to go after him so hard? Maybe not, but that’s what D is all about…and if your star QB is playing in a known injured condition, is it all that far-fetched to believe that ANY NFL defense isn’t going to go after him?

  56. “Should have an asterisk”

    Oh that’s right, I forgot that the supposed 5-10k reward caused all of the Saints players to magically beat their blocks and get to the quarterback….and then beat the Colts straight up in the Superbowl. This asterisk talk is flat out hilarious. How does offering a player a miniscule (by their standard of pay) bonus for performance, supposed bounty, whatever cause them to suddenly have a competitive advantage over the opponent. If 5 grand was all it took to motivate the Saints past the Vikings in the freaking NFC championship game then shame on the purple team.

    Just show the damn proof Goodell (if you have it)so we can put this crap to bed. Nobody is denying that there was an illegal pay for performance system. There is however denial over paying to intentionally hurt other players. Just provide the supposed damning evidence already…and everyone will shut up.

  57. moagecu says: Apr 16, 2012 4:27 PM

    mark0226 says:
    Apr 16, 2012 3:58 PM

    The NFL reviewed the hits in that game and found that the majority of the hits on him were legal hard hits within the rules.
    _______

    Is that why Bobby McCray was fined $20,000, Anthony Hargrove was fined $5,000 and another player was fined $5,000 as well. Thats $40,000 worth of fines for one game and yet you say the NFL reviewed the hits and said they were all fine?
    —-
    Don’t forget McCray was flagged for “late hit out of bounds” of Favre, although Favre was standing in the middle of the field after a reverse to Harvin. The refs just didn’t like Favre being hit that hard even though he was pretending to have the ball. What a joke.

  58. injuries are random and arent controlled by money.doesnt matter what the guys hitting you are being paid or offered,the chances of injury dont increase a bit.a 3rd string special teamer making the minimum could make a low tackle and your acl could pop,or brian dawkins could come in low 20 times at your knees full speed and never do any damage at all.its like paying a hit man to kill your neighbor and throwing in an extra 50 bucks to make them deader.makes no difference at all.intent means nothing.be logical.i had a sprained knee during a 2 on 2 drill in practice,but not one injury the rest of the hundreds of practices and games where i was tackled low and tackled low,at safety or wr or halfback or any other position i played.no one was being paid either and it would have made no difference if we were.no matter how many tickets you buy for the lottery,you still cant make the numbers come up the way u want them too,its still random luck.same applies here.100 intent filled hits could equal no injuries at all and yet one perfect form tackle with no intent could break your ribs or leg or arm.its random and this whole intent argument is a joke.money doesnt make you bigger stronger or faster than you already are,and it doesnt suddenly make you capable of causing injuries at will.if this were the case,you could just raise a players pay and he would magically go from running a 4.4 to a 3.8 in the 40 yard dash.or he could magically hit with more force than he can physically hit with thru some sort of magic i suppose.see i can punch pretty hard,but offering me money to hit harder wont magically make it happen on the spot.apply some logic to this retarded topic and maybe this nonsense will go away.

  59. the way the Saints defense battered quarterback Brett Favre during the 2009 NFC title game, including at least one illegal hit that was flagged — and at least one that was missed.

    Two blatant late hits on Brees in that game were not called either, but why confuse the issue with facts right?

    No matter how much you try Florio, the league won’t retroactively give you the NFC Championship.

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